when did your transition really begin?

[mary something]

This is something I've been considering lately and am interested in the wide variety of opinions that perhaps we will hear.

From my own personal experiences and reading those of others posted here it seems common that folks who are planning on transition sometimes remove the barriers that will prevent it from happening before beginning medical treatment. Sometimes this is separating from a wife, or moving geographically to a "safe" place, it can even look like someone who first goes to general counseling to address any comorbid mental health issues so that they can enter this stage of their lives as healthy as possible.

When do you consider the "beginning" of your transition? Was it when you first realized that you felt a strong feeling of dysphoria and tried to understand yourself?

Was it when you first started counseling? Started hrt? Was it the first time you looked in the mirror or a picture of yourself and was able to have proof that it wasn't impossible to do? Was it another equally valid moment that I didn't list?

[Angela Campbell]

That is a difficult one to answer as there is no consensus on the definition of what transition is. Some argue it is a done in one day kind of thing. One day you are not in transition and the next day if full time you are. If transition is considered only being full time then that would be the answer. I think of it more as a process. It takes a good deal of planning and preparation, and doing a lot of things that take time, such as legal matters and working with your employer on a changeover.

I began planning mine long before I even actually accepted I was going to do it. I spent a year losing weight, getting my appearance in order and getting comfortable going out in public and building my support network. At that time - a year later - I made the decision to transition. I worked with a therapist, began hormones, began conversations with my employer, came out to my family and began plans for the legal name change and some surgeries. Once I get a court date set for the name change I will go full time. Have I been in transition already? It feels like it, but it is not done yet.

Maybe it is like buying a house. You spend time saving money, then go around looking at houses, apply for a mortgage and get a contract and eventually close. I guess the day you close is the day you bought the house. All the long time before when all the work was going on you were preparing. Years later how do you feel about it? Did you buy the house in one day?

If you think about it as a process rather than an event I started when I finally decided I could.

[KellyJameson]

Depending on how you use the word transitioning for me it started when I realized I looked different "down there" from other girls

I was three and my aunt bathed me with her daughter who was two and I remember being intensely interested in why she looked different than me because I knew that she should look like me and I should look like her.

It took me another five years to realize the truth " I was broken" and than I started on the path to "Fix myself" alll with the mind of a child.

Any movie or story where I witness transformation held my interest and it was not just a man transforming into a woman but a caterpillar into a butterfly or a "ugly duckling into a beautiful Swan.

I had labelled myself as broken so "ugly" and looked for the solution to be fixed so "beautiful" but the ugly / beautiful dichotomy had nothing to do with the external but the "ugly energy" of boys that repelled me.

I do not find this energy ugly anymore because I understand this is part of what makes a boy a boy but at the time I did not, so was offended by it.

Later in my teens this energy in men interested me and I found it fascinating to watch being displayed. I think this energy is the predecessor to male sexuality.

The inner "I" of me was not this body I found myself in because those with this body were not "me" but those with the other body "were"

I knew this in every cell and fiber of my body.

Transitioning for me has been a life long pursuit and started when I realized I was "different" from other girls physically even though they were the same as me.

I have always had this relationship with women where I experience them as me.

I "get" women but have to "work" at understanding men.

Gender is the brain not the body but we need the body to live with.

[Kathryn Martin]

I guess there are really two approaches to what transition is, both are valid. Transition as a process and transition as an act. I transitioned from the 31st March to the 1st of April 2011. It meant disposing of all of my male wardrobe, (everything) and going to bed, waking the next morning and getting dressed and going to work.

Transition the process began with about 9 month earlier with my own do or die event. I started with skin care first, and weight loss, July 17th. Intense transition planning begins. Two weeks later August 3rd, first session with my transition counseler, September 5th first haircut to create my hairstyle. October 13th first electrolysis session, October 31st clearance letter fro hormones, November 1st prescription and beginning of treatment. Between November 1st and February 31st accumulation of wardrobe, continuation of hairstyle development. March 28th email blast to clients, colleagues and courts. Last day in Court for Chambers in male dress. April 1st transition, April first in Court first time as Kathryn. August resume counseling for surgery clearance, November 31st first surgery clearance letter, December 12th book surgery for May 8th, pay deposit. March 15th second surgery letter, book tickets and May 7th travel to Montreal, May 8th surgery.

It was awesome and gets better every day......

[mary something]

yes that is a very valid concern Angela! The question was a personal one though, and I think it is important to realize that there are many different types of women. It would be a shame if being a transwoman makes us lose this essential part of female socialization in our society. It is simply that there are many ways of being a woman, while it might be possible to pull someone's "man" card you will never hear an example of a woman pulling another woman's "woman" card.

Even the concept sounds ridiculous.

That is something we should ALL consider when trying to pull someone's "transsexual" card because that behavior reminds me most of male behavior patterns not women's. I'm not dismissing the very real and distressing feelings that people feel to motivate themselves to deny someones elses statements that vibe false to them. Simply making the point that people classify behaviors sometimes by gender and acting in a manner that genders you a certain way is not helpful for us. Which ironically makes it more of an issue of pot and kettle at that point in my mind.

edit-
that is impressive Kathryn, maybe it IS true about how efficient those german mass transit systems are huh?

I think there are lots of valid ways to answer this also. Matter of fact I think the most interesting part is HOW it is answered not the specifics, although your execution and precision to detail is a model of success to emulate.

Do you consider weighing the decision to take this action part of the process also?

[Badtranny]

Transition begins when you decide to transition.

I had an epiphany in January of 2010 and my transition began the next day. It was then that I was committed to being real and I stopped pretending completely. I no longer watched what I said or how I stood or doing any of the things that consumed my closeted existence. I was out as gay "except for work" but after that day I was just out.

I started looking for a therapist and a plastic surgeon, by March I was having my first round of liposuction and I was on HRT by that summer. One year later I came out as openly transitioning at work which was kinda weird because nobody seemed to care that I was gay but there was a lot of WTF when they heard I was transitioning.

I knew very little about what I was doing or what I should be expecting back in 2010 but it didn't matter. I was going to be free one way or another. In 2012 before my first round of FFS, my mom asked me if I was scared and I said "not at all, just know that if I don't wake up, I died happier than I had ever lived as a man". The day I decided to seek my truth was one of the happiest days of my life and as difficult as my transition has been, I would never go back to the sad & lonely dude I once was.

[mary something]

Melissa do you mind if I ask if you considered where you live as part of your transition? Did you move or find a safe location so you could be more successful? If so was that more of a pretransition preparation or how do you classify it?

I personally did, but there really are no right or wrong answers

Do you mind sharing if you made any decisions or changes in your relationships before transitioning?

[Badtranny]

Melissa do you mind if I ask if you considered where you live as part of your transition?

Oh hells yes.

I moved to the beautiful SF Bay area in 2006 to come out ...as gay. Even then it took me over a year to do it and I still didn't have the seeds to come out at work. There was no way I could have come out as anything in the shitty little town I'd lived in for 15 years. (Bakersfield CA) I wasn't strong enough back then and I knew it so I moved, but a lifetime of being closeted is extremely difficult to overcome.

It wasn't until after I began to live as openly gay (except at work LOL) that I realized there was still something wrong with me. Acting like a gay dude wasn't anything different than acting like a straight dude and I was horrified to learn that I still felt out of place.

[mary something]

sorry, I was trying to say that if you minded you shouldn't answer. but thank you anyway! So is it safe to say you were trying to find out something about yourself at that point but was just pointing your sights at the wrong target?

If you hadn't come out as gay and had those experiences do you think you would still have decided to transition later?

Gosh I know I'm grilling you, sorry, I appreciate your honesty but will delete this question if you wish.

I would have done exactly what you did if possesed the resources to do so at the time, so please don't feel that I am being critical. It does make me curious about how it has affected your transition. Don't we all wonder about the shoulda/coulda/woulda's sometimes?

[Kimberly Kael]

From my own personal experiences and reading those of others posted here it seems common that folks who are planning on transition sometimes remove the barriers that will prevent it from happening before beginning medical treatment.

I suspect most anyone who wants to have a reasonable chance of success begins way before medical treatment begins. Admitting to yourself that transition is a possibility is a step, as is talking to a therapist about it, or opening up to friends, family, or a romantic partner. Shopping for a practical wardrobe could be part of the process, heck I could even count looking in the mirror to find the woman I think I've have been all along. The tricky part is that much of this is clear in retrospect. The same actions taken by someone else could be part of asking questions that had very different answers for them.


When do you consider the "beginning" of your transition?

Birth? There isn't a nice, neat beginning because there isn't a point in time when I became transsexual. I always have been. If you count the first action I took after it became clear I was headed for transition? Then it might be finding a therapist to talk to. If you count the moment when I though I might be? Those moments go back a long way to childhood, dismissed for decades as being flights of fancy or simply impractical given societal constraints.

Consciously choosing where to live and work preceded my social transition by a long shot. I've never felt comfortable living in conservative areas, and moved to the West coast more than a decade before my transition. I was very much aware of the LGBT supportive policies of any employer I considered in the last decade, too. In many ways I've spent my life preparing to be me.

[Angela Campbell]

It could be back in 1975 when I heard about Renée Richards. I dreamed about it ever since. Would that count?

[Aprilrain]

First we would need to define what transition is before we can really answer this question. I personally believe it should be, at the very least, living full time (as the gender one is transitioning to) that is where the rubber meets the road. Until then wether or not one is "in transition" is, at best, hypothetical. That being said once one has "transitioned" it's pretty easy to say when one began. For me that was sometime early September 2010. That's when I left my wife and began the very painful process of transition. If you had asked me then if I was going to transition I would have said hell no. It wasn't until at least 2 weeks later that I really accepted that I was a girl and even then I didn't really know what I was going to do about it.

[LeaP]

Transition begins when you decide to transition.

Yup. July 25, 2013.

Explosion of major GD in 2010. Therapy, late 2011. HRT, August 2, 2012. I'll substitute a certain amount of faith and hope in lieu of the mirror confirmation.

All the distinctions are valid. I take July 25 as "starting" and would take the first day of RLE as "in." Others will have different answers depending on their issues and what drove their decisions.

[mary something]

yes I think it counts Angela, living is a very subjective experience ya know? :)

Thanks for answering April, I tried to word the question in such a way that it wouldn't become an argument about that. Transition is a very subjective thing to most people I think. It is just as valid to me if someone can do it in 24 hours than if someone can do it in 10 years.

All I really care about is learning how to transition well. This might sound silly but I think the people who are most successful at transitioning well wouldn't be on a support forum for transsexuals. So in the meantime all we've got is each other.

Yes Lea, and that is an excellent quote from Melissa, however we are still waiting to know if her moving and coming out as gay perhaps accelerated the process for her. I'm only interested in her opinion on her transition really.

[emma5410]

I could say 2011 when I started taking a low dose of hormones and started seeing a therapist. Or I could say last July when I realised that my only option was to fully transition and live as a woman. But all that seems trivial compared to January when I began my RLE. That was when it became real because it was 24/7.

EDIT

All I really care about is learning how to transition well.
I think this is something you only learn by doing.

[Frances]

For me, it was when I started permanent hair removal two years ahead of hormones and going full-time. It was the first concrete step forward.

[Rachel Smith]

All I really care about is learning how to transition well. This might sound silly but I think the people who are most successful at transitioning well wouldn't be on a support forum for transsexuals. So in the meantime all we've got is each other.

First let me address this Mary. I transitioned very well. More like a little bump in the road than a giant sink hole. The reason I stay here is to try to help others as the ones who were before me helped me. A lot of those ladies are still here as well. It is my way of trying to give back, pay it forward so to speak.

Now as far as MY transition.

To me it started long before my RLE, it started when I first considered going forward with it. Finding this forum and asking a miriad of questions and getting honest straight forward (lol) answers and reading as many old posts as I could.

When I started my RLE, everywhere but my jobs, I was still testing the waters and still wasn't sure. That was in 2010. I moved away from my hometown in PA to VA to do that. Then in 2011 I started therapy. I was so happy when I was Rachel.

Then in Nov. 2012 I went back to B-town, left Rachel behind and almost immediately felt like that depressed brow beaten male I had come not to miss so much. Then I had my do it or die experience and came back to VA in Jan. 2013. This is when I would say I was IN transition as I knew there was no way I could not do it. When I started HRT in the summer of 2013 there was no going back. I felt good before but after about 2 weeks on HRT I was a different person. Happy on the inside for the first time I can remember.

Rachel

[Badtranny]

however we are still waiting to know if her moving and coming out as gay perhaps accelerated the process for her.

Yes I believe it did. You have to understand that I was very naive about gay culture and I still thought that wanting to be a woman was a symptom of being gay. I sincerely thought that all gay guys kinda wanted to be girls. It seems silly now but I never identified as transgender, I identified as gay, even though I never FELT gay. I was very confused growing up because I was emotionally attracted to women and sexually attracted to men. My femininity didn't manifest as cross-dressing, rather my communication style was decidedly feminine as well as my social skills. I would also fantasize endlessly about being a woman though oddly enough, the occasional drag queen or TG person on TV never stirred anything inside me, there was just no way I could see myself dressing up like a girl. I had a hard enough time with the other guys as it was. If I would have been cross dressing I may have figured this all out much sooner.

It wasn't until I experienced life as a gay man that I began to put the pieces together. It's like this, I wasted my entire life in the closet and it wasn't until I came out and began being honest about who I was that I was able to find myself.

[mary something]

Melissa I also would fantasize endlessly about being a woman. Seeing drag queens or the occasional early transition transwoman on TV would fill me with a revulsion, I would instantly change the channel! I simply couldn't face that part of myself even though I would crossdress whenever the opportunity presented itself. Talk about in denial! The thing is though I understand now why I was so conflicted, it was the only possible way for me to be safe. Although at first all those years felt wasted, if I hadn't kept myself safe I might not be here right now doing what I'm doing.

I also logically preferred to be gay and thought that the fact that I hadn't ever felt attraction to a man was because I was in denial. LOL. How indicative of true denial is that? convincing yourself that you were really in denial about something else that was more acceptable (to me) seemed... SAFER.

How indicative of our gender is it that our first priority is keeping ourselves safe in so many of our transition dialogues?

I understand why you consider transition as beginning when you started feminizing your body. That is when you finally had a gameplan for how to deal with this and how to feel better. It's not wasted time if your doing things that are eliminating possible reasons in your mind for why you aren't happy. That is actually the sane way to approach this.

The bigger problem is that all of us spent a LONG time ignoring and misinterpreting feelings. In my opinion that requires just as much work to fix as the years of testosterone on our bodies. We can fix the physical stuff a lot easier than the bad mental habits because all it takes is a mirror to see what procedures we want. To know what bad mental habits we need to chuck from our days in denial we have to be radically honest with ourselves, and that is very hard. especially when you consider that on this forum if someone talks too much about their doubts they risk losing what little support they already have by having their "transcard" taken from them.

I think we've got it all wrong. We assume the transition system is designed perfectly, but it was designed by straight white men who don't know the first thing about us! You don't believe me? Go read some threads on the crossdressers side and come back.

[arbon]

knowing I was going to transition and arranging things accordingly in early 2010

But there was an earlier point which set it in motion though, towards the end of 2008. One accidental email in which I outed myself after an emotional night at a Halloween dress up, me as a girl. If it had not been for those events, and the emotional train wreck that followed, I don't know how long it would have taken me to reach the point. Maybe I would have been able to keep it locked up inside and achieved my goal of getting through life as a guy.

[PaulaQ]

August 7, 2013. The day I moved out of my home in Oklahoma, and moved to Dallas. I started dressing and living as a woman full time that day. I started HRT a couple of weeks later. I started electrolysis shortly after that. I finished coming out to the last few close friends. I found a therapist who'll write the letters I need. I started talking to surgeons about FFS and SRS. I came out to my management and HR at work. I will complete the process after I complete some voice coaching - which starts this week. I work remotely, so the normal problem of presenting female at work is not one I face, lucky me. But I need to sound like a woman - because that's all they really get of me, my voice over the telephone. I'll get a hair system next month (it's already on order), finally ditching my wig.

Lots of stuff happening, about as fast as I can make it happen. It started on the day I moved out though.

[Kimberly Kael]

It seems silly now but I never identified as transgender

It doesn't seem that surprising to me. How many transgender role models did we have while growing up? What little information there was, like an interview with Wendy Carlos, was published in the likes of Playboy where it was safely hidden from children while they were building a world view. When Frank N Furter is the closest thing you have for a reference, you know things are pretty screwed up.


I was very confused growing up because I was emotionally attracted to women and sexually attracted to men.

It wasn't at all less confusing to be attracted to and empathize with women. I assumed initially that this is how straight men felt, again because I didn't have any other examples to go by. Eventually I realized that men didn't really understand or in many cases even particularly like the women they dated. They were drawn to them in a very different way than I was, and that subtlety took a long time to come to terms with.


I think we've got it all wrong. We assume the transition system is designed perfectly, but it was designed by straight white men who don't know the first thing about us!

If you think there's a system in place for transitioning, you've definitely got it all wrong. There's a system in place for keeping people from transitioning unless they really need to. How and when to go about transition is left pretty much up to us to figure out on our own.

[Michelle.M]

When do you consider the "beginning" of your transition?

That's kind of like asking when your trip to someplace begins. As soon as you decide to go? When you pack your suitcase? When you finally get in the car and start driving? When you get past the city limits?

There's no wrong answer. It begins when you identify your own beginning, and nobody gets to challenge your legitimacy on the answer.


Was it when you first realized that you felt a strong feeling of dysphoria and tried to understand yourself?

Golly, I wish! In that case I would have begun my transition when I was 7 years old!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

"If you think there's a system in place for transitioning, you've definitely got it all wrong. There's a system in place for keeping people from transitioning unless they really need to. How and when to go about transition is left pretty much up to us to figure out on our own. "

Wow Kimberly I never thought of it that way!!! Terrific way to say it..

[mary something]

yes Kimberly, I totally agree with you. The part that we should keep people from transitioning unless they really need to is the lie. NOT TRANSITIONING is what has hurt me the most, every concrete step I've taken has made me feel BETTER.

Everyone should ask themselves when did they began REALLY NEEDING TO TRANSITION? Was it a lark before then? 2

How do we know that some people don't NEED to transition?

There is an inherent bias in the system that makes us question and FRAMES IT AS A CHOICE.

That is why I said that it is obvious a transsexual woman didn't design the process. Only a man would think that it was a choice and that some people would need to and others wouldn't. (I'm not saying anyone here is a man, I'm saying have we questioned this most basic assumption about transsexuality or do we just assume that everyone else is right except us. Hey, that was our defense mechanism when we were young and trying to fit in. WHEN DOES IT STOP?)


That single concept has seemed to cause every person on this board a lot of pain.

Do we REALLY believe it though? I think if we REALLY believed it our advice to younger people who are at the stage of questioning would be VERY different from what is actually given or said.

Why is that?

In my opinion the single cause of dysphoria is feeling that we have a choice to not be ourselves. Do we REALLY believe that though? That is the most confusing thing (for me) about coming to the forum and socializing with the other members here. It is not inherent but it is quite obvious among many of the underlying attitudes that people still see it as a choice. This concept will make you miserable, it will make it much harder to pass, it will make you doubt yourselves, it will cause you to feel shame and guilt and fear, it will cause you to feel regret.

It is our attitudes about being transsexual that makes us our own worst enemies.

We ALL project ourselves onto others when we talk. EVERYONE does that to some degree. Listen to what you say to others, that is evidence of what you truly believe about yourself.

You feel regret? You feel internalized shame or guilt when a cis person looks at you without acceptance or questioning?

Those attitudes are gonna make your life much worse than they need to be because somewhere deep down inside you still feel you had a choice. Just stop.

[PaulaQ]

If you think there's a system in place for transitioning, you've definitely got it all wrong. There's a system in place for keeping people from transitioning.

Fixed that for you, in the quoted text. Yes, the system is in place to keep you from transitioning. Welcome to the Penis Protection Program (PPP) - designed to make sure you and your Johnson stay together, as God intended and any man in his right mind would want.

Can't hack the humiliation we add into the program? Obviously you weren't ready.
Kill yourself before we allow you to receive treatment? Obviously you were mentally unstable.
we view the 40% suicide rate amongst our patients as a sign of the success of this program!


How and when to go about transition is left pretty much up to us to figure out on our own.

This is why I'd MUCH rather have gotten cancer, than been trans. I'd have a ****ing doctor who owned my treatment plan. And I wouldn't have had to go to a goddamned psychologist for a few months in advance to be sure that I was really going to be OK with myself post chemotherapy before I got any treatment!

Or hey - if I had cancer, no doctor would've told my wife "well, your husband is probably going to die, so you should probably just split!"

Nobody would say to me "Oh, you have Cancer? I'm so happy for you that you've discovered this about yourself!"

Yep, good old cancer. Yeah, it's a horrible way to go - but so is this, and at least I could look in the phone book and find a doctor.

I mean, why would I be bitter? I only attempted suicide while waiting to get HRT. No biggie.

[Rianna Humble]

The part that we should keep people from transitioning unless they really need to is the lie.

I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. If we follow your logic, we encourage the Charles Kane's of this world and we allow that transition is just something to be done on a whim to obtain a designer vagina.


NOT TRANSITIONING is what has hurt me the most, every concrete step I've taken has made me feel BETTER.

That is because you do need to transition, you are not just someone living out a pink fog or wanting a dv as a fashion accessory.


How do we know that some people don't NEED to transition?

People for whom placating their family is more important than having a body that is congruent with their gender don't need to transition at this time. Indeed if they were to transition, they would be a lot worse off.

People whose job is more important to them than expressing their true gender don't need to transition until their priorities change.

People who just want big boobs or a dv don't need to transition, but under your reasoning would be encouraged to do so thus ruining their life.

We have had examples of all of these and more in this very forum in recent months.

[LeaP]

...The part that we should keep people from transitioning unless they really need to is the lie. NOT TRANSITIONING is what has hurt me the most, every concrete step I've taken has made me feel BETTER.

...
How do we know that some people don't NEED to transition?

There is an inherent bias in the system that makes us question and FRAMES IT AS A CHOICE.

That is why I said that it is obvious a transsexual woman didn't design the process. Only a man would think that it was a choice and that some people would need to and others wouldn't.
...

In my opinion the single cause of dysphoria is feeling that we have a choice to not be ourselves. ...

Those attitudes are gonna make your life much worse than they need to be because somewhere deep down inside you still feel you had a choice. Just stop.

It's an interesting point of view, Mary, but it works prospectively in the fewest of cases, even if it is compelling in retrospect.

So, no choice (need) or choice?

In the end, most of us conclude we HAVE to transition to save ourselves, however each individual construes the salvation. But we never knew if we would arrive at that point of need until we got there. I.e., we agree with you, if only from that point forward. What you are saying, though, is we never DID have a choice.

One way to approach this is as a tautology. That is, accepting for argument that only a transsexual finds it necessary to transition, then arriving at the need to transition proves one is transsexual. One may or may not believe that, but it doesn't help anyone with the qualitative aspects of life to which you refer prior to knowing who they are. You can't start down a path before you know to step on it, need or not.

I assume you are not advocating for non-transsexual transition as a lifestyle choice, though one could infer that from what you wrote. At best then, this holding out for the realization of need, or hanging onto choice, refers to someone who knows who they are, is miserable (part of your premise, though not your term) but hasn't pushed themself to the brink yet.

It sounds sympathetic. But is it? Even granting the misery, many choose not to transition for a variety of valid (to them) reasons. Without giving examples, because they, too, invite tautologies, suffice it to say they trade one set of qualitative issues for another.

And there is the ultimate choice. One that looms differently these days because it WOULD be a choice.

I don't think anyone here is arguing that being driven to transition removes all aspects of choice. Of course we have a choice. AND we have the need. They are not mutually exclusive. We choose to transition. In fact, I would say that choice is best made when we are past feeling the GD psychological pressure (I like the phrasing!), having achieved a level of sanity and clarity about what's going on. It's not the only way, though. This is where I find myself - stay on the path, I'm OK, step off, and the storm starts kicking up again.

Choice and no choice. Both, in different ways. Another way of representing that is stark reality coupled with responsibility.

[PaulaQ]

I couldn't disagree with you more strongly. If we follow your logic, we encourage the Charles Kane's of this world and we allow that transition is just something to be done on a whim to obtain a designer vagina.

So what? We have docs who give out oxycontin like candy, leading to addiction and destroyed lives. We let people do all manner of outrageous stuff to themselves with plastic surgery. As a society, at least in America, we largely don't care how many of ourselves we let drunks kill on the road each year - simply giving the ones we catch a slap on the wrist a few times until they kill someone finally.

In general, we seem relatively unconcerned here how many serious illnesses affect the quality of life of many people.

So why is our medical condition so special that we have to wait and wait and wait and wait to get treatment. That in many states, like mine, medical professionals who DO deign to treat us (and not many do) are harassed by the state medical board.

The process we go through does two things:
1. It gives cover to the medical community, and allows them to wallow on in their blind prejudice against us, putting the onus on psychologists who are unable to write a prescription for physical medicine, and yet must provide a permission slip to a medical doctor who can. The AMA washes its hands of us girls.

2. It's designed to help encourage us to not transition. Period. NOTHING in this process is designed to help you. You have to figure it all out on your own, or with the help of others who've gone before you. If you can find them.

Pure and simple, this is most often an underdiagnosed childhood condition. To withhold treatment after grotesquely misdiagnosing some of us for years "just to be really, really sure" is the cruelest goddamned thing in modern medicine.


People for whom placating their family is more important than having a body that is congruent with their gender don't need to transition at this time. Indeed if they were to transition, they would be a lot worse off.

For which other medical conditions do we expect patients to have to choose between their families, and treatment that in many cases will save their lives, or at the very least mitigate a lifetime of misery and suffering? Does this even make sense as a criteria?

[Kathryn Martin]

Mary,

The part that externally keeps people from transitioning by way of gatekeeping is to prevent people who have co-morbidity issues such as Axis 1 and Axis 2 disorders from undertaking steps that are irreversible without being capable of giving fully informed consent. Gatekeeping is to protect medical service providers and the patient. If need to be whole or congruent is no longer a criteria of gatekeeping it becomes a matter of pure choice, it becomes a cosmetic fashion choice.

There are indicators of transsexualism the absence of which indicate need does not exist, and not as suggested by Lea as a tautology.

The process was in fact very much designed between MtF transsexuals and their doctor. The whole gatekeeping process was designed by both Benjamin and Pauli. They were the only ones who even worked with us at that time. It is still the standard.

A lot of the time these kinds of emotions as shame, guilt, fear and regret are a direct result not of believing it is a choice but because it is a choice for those that feel these emotions. It's all in the interpretation, Mary, and as you can see what you said can be turned on it's head. As long as you believe that do or die is just a metaphor and not a reality it's a choice often made for comfort, for excitement for whatever, except for need. Except of course, as both you and I know, that's when it backfires. That is when the loneliness hits, the inability to integrate becomes apparent, where the "my social circle accepts me" comes to the bitter end of tolerance and the loneliness begins. It's where the passing as an act meets passing that comes to you from your environment, and all the surgeries and nips and tucks fail.

If I can spare one person that fate I would consider that an act of kindness. Because, the hell of a discontented life is nothing to the hell of transland and out of options. That is why we have gatekeeping and why it is important. And the only way to avoid that particular hell is to either be transsexual or not transition.

[PaulaQ]

If I can spare one person that fate I would consider that an act of kindness. Because, the hell of a discontented life is nothing to the hell of transland and out of options. That is why we have gatekeeping and why it is important. And the only way to avoid that particular hell is to either be transsexual or not transition.

How many with actual needs have to die to prevent a single mistake?

The irony of all this is that I've seen very little in my own tangle with gatekeepers that would actually prevent the most likely person to seek out transition, and have it be absolutely wrong for them - someone who's a gender variant such as bigender. Best I can tell, they are perfectly happy to mess them up, I guess.

But heaven forbid a real man should mistakenly become a woman! My god, a doctor might have to make a judgment call or, the horror, take responsibility for a diagnosis! That's unprecedented!

[Badtranny]

I made the choice to transition for one simple reason and that was to improve my quality of life. I wanted to give myself at least a chance of experiencing what it's like to be happy and comfortable in my own skin.

I had a perfectly fine life and career and would have easily lived out the rest of my life, such as it was. I was NOT in distress.

I am now on the other side of a successful transition. I'm happy. I love who I am now. The gatekeepers could have never kept me from this, the naysayers will never make me question this. Nobody can know what's in my heart and my advice to people who are considering transition is to toughen up and follow your own heart.

[PaulaQ]

Misty - it would appear that you have violated the tautologies posited by other members of this forum. Worse yet, you sought treatment for a serious and often debilitating condition (that you had to self-diagnose, I might add) before it became cripplingly bad or dangerously life threatening.

What were you thinking! Don't you know that GoodTrannies wait until they are an emotional train-wreck, like I was!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish some of you would just listen to yourselves.

edit: How dare you be happy and have a successful treatment outcome!

[Marleena]

What were you thinking! Don't you know that GoodTrannies wait until they are an emotional train-wreck, like I was!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish some of you would just listen to yourselves.


Paula I know you're angry about the gatekeeping and the delays but anyways here's the truth about TG suicides and gatekeeping isn't at the top of the list.. I seem to remember it took you awhile to go to a gender therapist like we advised you to. Or maybe I'm wrong.

http://www.lauras-playground.com/transgender_suicide_report.htm

[Badtranny]

Don't you know that GoodTrannies wait until they are an emotional train-wreck,

edit: How dare you be happy and have a successful treatment outcome!

LOL well, people can think whatever they want about me but they should all know that I'm not a slave to any ideology and I have very little if any interest in being a GOOD tranny. I freed myself from all shackles when I transitioned and for better or worse, I follow my own heart. I chose to call my blog badtranny for a reason. ;-)

[LeaP]

Misty - it would appear that you have violated the tautologies posited by other members of this forum. Worse yet, you sought treatment for a serious and often debilitating condition (that you had to self-diagnose, I might add) before it became cripplingly bad or dangerously life threatening.

What were you thinking! Don't you know that GoodTrannies wait until they are an emotional train-wreck, like I was!!!!!!!!!!!!


Since I am the one that raised tautologies, I suppose this is aimed at least in part at me. Circular arguments are meaningless. Mine was a strawman used rhetorically to set up the the structure of my response to Mary.

I also went on to opine that the best time to make a transition decision is when you've gotten past the train wreck. This is a strawman of your own, I think. I don't see anybody advocating waiting until a train wreck occurs. The condition can certainly produce crises. But crisis does not define the need (as pointed out by Kathryn). Moreover, non-transsexuals wind up in crisis over gender, too. That doesn't mean they should transition.

You can fairly and ask whether "the system" does more harm than good. I have asked the same in past threads more than once. But doing it as a rant doesn't advance the discussion.

[whowhatwhen]

Allright! That's it!
HUG CIRCLE! NOW!

That being said, mine is a soft transition making sure every step is the correct one rather than burning through at top speed.
Partially too because I have no backup if family freaks out, easing my changes has a chance of making it easier I think.

There's not much to worry about now, I still look like a man and it'll be a while before HRT does anything.

Edit:
It's hard to say which started the whole ball rolling, my best guess is that multiple balls started rolling and then combined into a giant super ball.
A pretty big moment seeing myself as a woman and not hating what I was seeing in the mirror, I didn't pass but I felt happier and more at peace with the proper image being presented.

The more serious stuff I guess will happen when it's no longer possible to pass as a man, quite a bit away I think.

[Angela Campbell]

It has been my experience that at least in Florida the medical community - including the mental health - are very helpful towards us. I have met and talked to at least 6 really good gender therapists, and when I began HRT my therapist gave me 6 different Doctors in my area to consider. All very supportive. I have heard of many more.

You do not have to be in crisis, and you do not have to be in a do it or die position at all, even though many are like this. Most times it is not due to the support from the medical community but more from their own personal demons and situations. I know many who are transitioning and never had any crisis at all, just a firm desire to transition.

Maybe other places are different, perhaps Florida is just a great place for transition to take place.

[LaurenB]

It may have already begun in my case. I can't really tell because I'm a "boiling frog". The Tranny is in the pot of transition water and it's getting warm. Almost comfortable, in fact. By the time it gets hot I suspect it'll be too late. I feel the pull like gravity. I can't imagine it's just going to stop and go away. The pull is all around me. I wish I knew how long it'll take. Maybe I'd stop fighting it.

[PaulaQ]

Paula I know you're angry about the gatekeeping and the delays but anyways here's the truth about TG suicides and gatekeeping isn't at the top of the list..

It was for me.

I found the two best gender therapists in the state of Oklahoma. They were difficult to find - there ARE no WPATH registered gender therapists in the state. My therapist was great - she just took her role as a gate keeper seriously. I didn't know I'd get a letter from her until the last possible second. Yay. I won.

I'm not mad about gatekeeping - I'm mad about the entire system. I'm mad at the difficulty of finding medical providers in Texas or Oklahoma who'll treat me. I'm mad about gynecologists who refuse to see me, or treated me as if I were some kind of freak. I'm mad that in all of the therapy I receive, not one bit of it helps me socialize as a woman. There IS no therapy for that. I'm mad that my entire treatment plan is largely up to me to drive.

When I tell you I'd rather have cancer than this - I mean it. At least with cancer:
- the doctor will tell me what's wrong with me - I don't have to figure it out myself
- the doctor will actually own my treatment plan. If you are trans? It's all on you to figure out.


I also went on to opine that the best time to make a transition decision is when you've gotten past the train wreck.

I almost didn't make it past the train wreck. What changed between my surety that I needed HRT in May, when I attempted suicide, and August, when I finally got it? A psychologists mind. That's it.

[Marleena]

Yes you're right Paula.

[Cindy J Angel]

was she from VA. Beach VA. I was station there in 77

[mary something]

I've been thinking about your response Rianna because Kane is an excellent point. One that I've used before too. It occurred to me however that regarding him I had two sources of information
1- him- problem is that he has forever discredited himself to my opinion. The only reason anyone listens to him is because they really don't know that much about transsexuals. Plus he has a nasty habit of speaking on tv and print and proclaiming to know what everyone else in his demographic is really thinking. If he were gay, black, or even a soccer player nobody would put up with that kind of crap so maybe we shouldn't either.

2- the media- unfortunately they are even less aware of transsexuals than Kane. Plus they are in the business of getting people's attention and then selling snippets of it to the highest bidder, the more people's attention they draw the more revenue they generate. This is a conflict of interest of course and any profession that feels the need to self declare their integrity as much as media members do have my automatic suspicions anyway lol. maybe a cynical view but an accurate one I think

so that leaves our opinion. Maybe all we can say about him is that he is proof that only a woman can live as a woman.

Or maybe we just have to accept that like all other groups of people we're gonna have some that are really just effed up too. Why do we have to be perfect to be valid? Not all Irish or Muslims are terrorists, only an incredibly tiny fraction.

I think kane is living proof that he is not really a transwoman. A picture is worth a thousand words ya know? I just don't know what else I can infer from him that I know for sure is truth but then again maybe that is plenty enough already.

I think Kane is living proof that we REALLY do self-identify authentically if we live enough experiences, sorry his P had to take the hit for him lol



Can't hack the humiliation we add into the program? Obviously you weren't ready.


what do you find most humiliating Paula? I loved the PPP, good stuff

Lea- it's been a very long day for me, my brain isn't up to your post right now it's only running at an idle lol, plus i should google tautology and just too lazy.


Mary,
The part that externally keeps people from transitioning by way of gatekeeping is to prevent people who have co-morbidity issues such as Axis 1 and Axis 2 disorders from undertaking steps that are irreversible without being capable of giving fully informed consent. Gatekeeping is to protect medical service providers and the patient. If need to be whole or congruent is no longer a criteria of gatekeeping it becomes a matter of pure choice, it becomes a cosmetic fashion choice.


sorry I might not have said it in the post but I don't have a problem with the gatekeeping system of therapists. Many types of personality disorders are learned misperceptions and simply using the wrong psychological defense mechanisms (usually a primitive one, like denial) in inappropriate situations. People from all walks of life can have these types of issues and of course transsexuals should screened for this before making permanent decisions.


A lot of the time these kinds of emotions as shame, guilt, fear and regret are a direct result not of believing it is a choice but because it is a choice for those that feel these emotions. It's all in the interpretation, Mary, and as you can see what you said can be turned on it's head.

yes I know it can be turned on it's head but only if we keep it in the context of do or die. I'm not saying it isn't do or die EVENTUALLY, the only reason I would have transitioned in my late teens was if I had believed that it was okay to do so to be happy. I didn't have the years of doing everything else to solve my problem and see it fail to get to the do or die place at that time. And lets be frank also, biological males are taught that being male is a privilege by society even if we don't exactly understand why. It's easy at that stage to think a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. We haven't figured out yet that we actually have a hand full of bird crap because we don't yet know how difficult a male life will be as an adult for a woman.

How many of us have said "if I only knew then what I know now"?

If you've ever thought that then if you ponder on it you'll see that you don't really agree with the do or die context now even if you did in the past

How about we simply take the perspective that it is OK to be a woman if that is what you are, and if someone else doesn't like it then whatever that comedian you quoted said :stirthepot:

Maybe Iggy Pop had it right when he said that is is only shameful for a person to dress like a woman if you think the state of being a woman is shameful.

I don't have a problem with someone transitioning to simply be happier, everyone else feels the inherent right to pursue their happiness why can't I?

Only because I love you Kathryn :hugs:



Maybe other places are different, perhaps Florida is just a great place for transition to take place.

that has been my experience too Angela. At first my therapist asked me if I wanted to transition because I didn't want to be a "queen" lol. I told her that I couldn't control how other people view my personality I suppose but it wouldn't be much fun because I've never felt an attraction. Even when they bought me nice stuff or took me out to lunch at work lol. She asked me to come to the second meeting dressed and after that she was encouraging of transition, even imploring me to, once we had really examined my world-view and conscious habits of thinking for problems. I don't think it is only Florida!


. The pull is all around me. I wish I knew how long it'll take. Maybe I'd stop fighting it.

well it will take you exactly as long as it takes for you to STOP FIGHTING IT! Let me know when you do and I'll tell you how long it took :tongueout:

I think you'll do it when you feel it is safe and realize that you're okay with people seeing you for who you really are even if it feels weird at first





I'm mad about the entire system. I'm mad at the difficulty of finding medical providers in Texas or Oklahoma who'll treat me. I'm mad about gynecologists who refuse to see me, or treated me as if I were some kind of freak. I'm mad that in all of the therapy I receive, not one bit of it helps me socialize as a woman. There IS no therapy for that. I'm mad that my entire treatment plan is largely up to me to drive.

Paula I understand you are angry, I sure have been before too. Have you ever gotten really frustrated at something, like a home improvement project and noticed how incredibly MORE difficult it was to do while angry?
I get the point about therapists but every one I've ever had didn't seem like a real social butterfly to me. I'm not sure if that wouldn't be like asking the life of the party what the meaning of life is ya know? Not sure the answer would work for me.

In my experience the best way of learning how to socialize with women is to just do it. It can be tricky for two different reasons. First sexual attraction dictates that unless they do not see you as a potential mate you won't get the full "girl" experience. That is an easy solution, let them assume you are gay, pierce your ears and tell them how cute they are. adorable is a great word too.
Secondly you'll notice at first with women that they usually will enjoy the male attention they receive from you and will value it. Then after a while when you become just one of the girls the same social expectations will apply to you that they do to the other women. It will perhaps feel like something that is hurtful but it is in reality them teaching you how to fit into the social group in the same ways that everyone learns and yes negative reinforcement will be employed.

If (actually when not if because they will test you at some point) you get angry or get your feelings hurt that is the crucial moment when you find out if you really want to cast your lot with these folks. Can you conquer the pride that has been drilled into you by society for having a male body and accept correction from another woman and still like them as a friend? If you can then you will become a woman in THEIR eyes. Men will think you're NOT one of them. Society will effectively agree with you that you are transsexual, but don't expect to ever get a promotion again at work, and your raises will suck.

Oh another important detail is that it DOESN'T matter how you present really. You can socialize with women as a woman even looking like a man. Matter of fact it has a lot more to do with how women think than how you think. Women associate by status as determined by women. They will judge you by your social appearance and how you dress to fit what they perceive your best image to be that matches your personality. Women are encouraged to be empathetic and nurturing by society, if you help them portray themselves having those qualities you will add value to their group. For an early transitioning girl it may be the most androgynous look that helps them get the most socialization opportunities with other women.

[Rianna Humble]

I'm not mad about gatekeeping - I'm mad about the entire system. I'm mad at the difficulty of finding medical providers in Texas or Oklahoma who'll treat me.

So how will opening things up to make it cosmetic surgery increase the number of qualified medical practitioners who can treat the Gender Dysphoria? If there is no criteria of need, then there is no need to treat the underlying condition.


I'm mad about gynecologists who refuse to see me, or treated me as if I were some kind of freak. I'm mad that in all of the therapy I receive, not one bit of it helps me socialize as a woman.
So reduce it to simple cosmetic surgery and see how much support you get for socialising as a woman - it will be zero.


When I tell you I'd rather have cancer than this - I mean it. At least with cancer:
- the doctor will tell me what's wrong with me - I don't have to figure it out myself
- the doctor will actually own my treatment plan. If you are trans? It's all on you to figure out.

When you reduce it to the desire for a dv and a boob job, there will be no diagnosis, no treatment plan. Yes the doctor will know what's "wrong with you" - the same as anyone else going for cosmetic surgery - the desire to change your appearance.

Incidentally, I resent the way that you twist the advice given by people like myself to become "do or die". There is a great deal of difference between telling someone "don't transition whilst there are x,y,z things that are more important to you than being whole" and telling them "wait until you are ready to die".

[mary something]

. The pull is all around me. I wish I knew how long it'll take. Maybe I'd stop fighting it.

well it will take you exactly as long as it takes for you to STOP FIGHTING IT! Let me know when you do and I'll tell you how long it took :tongueout:

I think you'll do it when you feel it is safe and realize that you're okay with people seeing you for who you really are even if it feels weird at first. Are you ready to allow everyone in public to know that you're not what they thought you were (or in many cases we're not who we thought we were making them think we were lol)? I don't mean by wearing breast forms and a skirt in public. I mean by word choice, not worrying if someone thinks you might not be hetero, by allowing yourself to act unconventionally and completely owning it without any social discomfort. I think it's actually easier to start small and build your confidence up from there than by having meet the tranny day with all your friends and family while they stare at you in shock. Trust me that day comes eventually if you feel you must keep going to find your comfort zone but its much more natural feeling that way and usually much more supportive too.

I suppose it depends on what you consider when transition begins though.

[PaulaQ]

Incidentally, I resent the way that you twist the advice given by people like myself to become "do or die". There is a great deal of difference between telling someone "don't transition whilst there are x,y,z things that are more important to you than being whole" and telling them "wait until you are ready to die".

Well, I apologize Rianna I didn't mean to twist your words - but we are both doing that to one another. I in no way wanted to suggest that this should be treated at the level of cosmetic surgery. I'm simply saying - a great many harmful things are mishandled by the medical profession - so why're we so special? I'll tell you why - prejudice, plain and simple.

The problem with the current system, it seems to me, is three things:
1. Nobody has any accountability but the patient. The gatekeepers? They aren't medical doctors. The medical doctors? Hey, the gatekeepers said "ok". Nobody has responsibility for a treatment plan except the patient. It can be difficult to get a diagnosis, and nobody has too many suggestions about what you "really ought to do" except for a plastic surgeon who has lots of incentive to sell you lots of procedures.

2. Here in the states, it can be extremely difficult in many parts of the country to find practitioners, either medical, or psychological, who'll agree to treat trans patients. Many are afraid we'll scare off their normal patients. (And yeah - sometimes we do!) Know of any other minority group that faces this? I don't.

3. The system itself is overly conservative, and practitioners are afraid to practice medicine and treat us. I couldn't get HRT until I was "more stable". My "stability" consisted of white-knuckle holding on for dear life while pretending that I didn't want to die. I fooled 'em, and got treatment finally. There isn't much allowance for someone who's really desperate.

The problem with your statement Rianna - and I mean this with all due respect - is that I wanted to save my marriage. I didn't want to transition. Nobody in their right mind, as far as I'm concerned wants to go through this. I certainly didn't, anyway. So something else other than "being whole" was more important to me, or so I thought. I wanted to save my marriage. I loved my wife! And I thought I could manage somehow - right up until I attempted suicide.

That's the problem. You go from "X, Y, Z" is more important to "Goodbye!" really, really ****ing fast sometimes. I did anyway.

[Ariamythe]

My own subjective view on this very subjective question ;) is that my transition began January 1, 2013. That was the day I had my "epiphany," the moment where I had the clarity to see why I was so unhappy and messed up, the day I openly admitted to myself that I had these feelings. From that day to this, every day has been a step forward, every day a movement towards becoming myself.

[Aprilrain]

@Paula: i know of women who have been "diagnosed" TS by psychiatrists and were still unwilling to transition. What good is a diagnosis if the patient doesn't want to believe they have a disease (dis-ease)? A year or so ago i taked to someone on this very board who had been "diagnosed" and accepted that they were TS but still couldn't transition because it went against their religion, not sure what happened to her but her situation sounded untenable. I wouldnt be surprised if she commited suicide. My point is most of us are our own worst enemys, WE are the gatekeepers not the medical community. Once i got over myself i was surprised at how easy it was to get what I wanted. The fact is NOBODY wants you to transition, YOU have to want you to transition and by your own admission you didn't want to until it was the only option remaining. Trust me I get it, been there done that, got the T shirt. Most of US don't want to transition...until we do, that's when you need to be your own advocate.

The flip side to all of this is that there are indeed people seeking transition who are not transsexual. I've met them, it's not pretty and they're likely to have a bad outcome. Heck I've met people who probably are TS who are likely to have a bad outcome. Transition is only a healthy and effective treatment if it's going to improve the quality of your life and for some of us, unfortunately, that's just not the case. You can be the tranniest tranny in all of trannyland but if your just going to end up unemployable, broke, rejected by family, no friends, and depressed what problem have you really solved?
Just a thought.

[Ariamythe]

"the tranniest tranny in all of trannyland"

OMG that totally needs to be the title of someone's blog. :lol2:

[I Am Paula]

Sidestepping the bitching and moaning, I'll respond to the OT.
I read the book 'Everything you always wanted to know about sex' in about '75. It had a short, and in retrospect, inaccurate, chapter about transsexualism. I spent the next few decades denying I had a problem, while I attempted all the family things a cis male is supposed to do. In the back of my mind I new there was a solution, transition, but it remained a pipe dream as I cleaned the eaves, and painted my white picket fence world.
About a decade ago, things started getting worse. GD stayed with me thru' my waking hours and into my dreams. I started presenting female more and more, until I went full time two years ago, still convinced I could fix it all myself. No luck. I then pursued a breast enhancement, like a junkie needing a bigger fix.
On May 4 this year I was going to my parents house for my own birthday party. I had to present male. All the built up sh*t of 55 years of GD poured out of me. All by myself I had my own personal breakdown. After some hours of anger, terror, denial, weeping, self loathing, self destructive thoughts, and a million emotions that were new to me, I managed to climb into my boy stuff, and go to dinner. My sister recognized the distress I was in, and during a private moment walking her dog, at her prompting, it all came out.
The next day I saw my GP. With no TS experience, at least he recognized a person in crisis. Not knowing what else to do, but knowing that an endo would, he referred me to the only one in my small city who regularly worked with TS patients. Thank God, the endo also recognized my distress, and, from his desk phone, called a therapist who could see me the next day.
My transition either started some time in 1975, when I realized it was what I wanted. On May 4, 2013, when The elephant in the room that is GD forced me out of said room, naked in to the world, or on July 12 of this year, when I took my first doses of HRT, and knowing that the effects were placebotic, felt better from that second forward.
I celebrate July 12 as my rebirthday.

[mary something]

Transition is only a healthy and effective treatment if it's going to improve the quality of your life and for some of us, unfortunately, that's just not the case. You can be the tranniest tranny in all of trannyland but if your just going to end up unemployable, broke, rejected by family, no friends, and depressed what problem have you really solved?
Just a thought.

April you have a wonderful way of scaring the crap out of people lol! But you speak the truth the way I hear it.

That is why it bothers me when I hear people give transition advice to others that is specific to THEM only. Lets compare it to fishing. If I catch a trophy fish does it help you if I tell you exactly where I cast my bait and how quickly or slowly the bait moved in the water? Does it help someone to know the very specifics of THAT particular moment or is it more helpful for them to describe all the times that I DIDN'T catch a fish and how they kept going and changing their tactics until they did?

Sometimes I think people worry too much about trying to teach people exactly what it was like when THEY caught their fish, not how they learned to fish.

[PaulaQ]

. The fact is NOBODY wants you to transition, YOU have to want you to transition and by your own admission you didn't want to until it was the only option remaining. Trust me I get it, been there done that, got the T shirt.

Bullshit. When I begged and pleaded for treatment after attempting suicide, I was refused. I held on with a white-knuckle grip to the thin thread of my life, while my therapist was uncomfortable with letting me get HRT. Finally three months later, I begged, argued, cajoled, ranted, questioned methods enough to get a letter for HRT. I was pretty sure I'd have to restart the process with a different therapist.

Luckily for me, I didn't have to do that, or I have little doubt that I wouldn't be writing this at all. Feel free though to tell me it was all my fault. That's been the most consistent message I've gotten from this forum. :|

[mary something]

Paula I don't know why your therapist did what he did or didn't do. It did occur to me reading your post that it isn't uncommon for professionals to first try and stabilize a patient before treating them with mood altering drugs. As unfair as it is perhaps the admission of a suicide attempt will only make it harder to convince them that you know what is best for you at the moment regarding whether you should be prescribed hrt. It isn't because of any other reason than because they do not wish to do harm. Feeling suicidal ideation is NOT exclusive only to transsexuals and that is why perhaps they wanted to make sure they were doing their duty to do no harm.

Just a guess but April's comments vibe with my experiences regarding therapists and my endo. Something I had to learn how to do was to ask for help in a way that made it clear that I knew what I wanted and yet didn't get discouraged by the fact that the system is not designed to treat you in the ways other conditions are treated. It's tough and confusing in that moment or at least it was for me.

[LeaP]

Paula, what DID your therapist say in response?

[PaulaQ]

She didn't think I was ready yet.

It's ironic really. Months of antidepressants, antianxiety meds, and xanax (a very poor choice for a recovering alcoholic like me) only took a little of the edge off my GD - I wanted to die.

A few weeks on estrogen, and I wanted to live. They were all so afraid it would make me less stable.

[mary something]

did she describe what she thought would make you ready?

[PaulaQ]

Not really - more stability. I upped my ability to lie to a provider some, sounded more pitiful than I ever have, and she relented. I hadn't yet been able to hire a therapist in Dallas who could provide letters. The first therapist I found in Dallas is legally unable to provide them. I finally do have one here - the only gender therapist for about 400 miles, who can provide me with letters I'll need for future procedures.

You may think I'm a mess now, but I was much worse in August.

[mary something]

Do you feel that you've had a really bad run of luck with therapists?

Have you heard similar things from different therapists at different times too?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to be critical, but even a broken clock is right twice a day right? Maybe you can salvage at least something from all that effort finding a therapist so that you can feel better about it? Maybe even if you discard a lot of the stuff that wasn't helping you at the time there were still nuggets of truth that you can take from the experience and then perhaps it will help you put this in perspective without feeling as disapointed towards them as you do now?

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but it is probably how I would try to do it for myself.

[PaulaQ]

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to be critical, but even a broken clock is right twice a day right?

The non-determinism of when it is right makes it not terribly useful, however.


Maybe you can salvage at least something from all that effort finding a therapist so that you can feel better about it? Maybe even if you discard a lot of the stuff that wasn't helping you at the time there were still nuggets of truth that you can take from the experience and then perhaps it will help you put this in perspective without feeling as disapointed towards them as you do now?

Broken is broken. Having a non-medical degreed person give you a permission slip so that a doctor can practice medicine is just broken, in my opinion. I'm glad they don't have psychologists involved in other physical ailments. For example, if I had to prove for six months that I could follow a diabetic diet before being prescribed insulin...

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but it is probably how I would try to do it for myself.[/QUOTE]

[I Am Paula]

Paula, what DID your therapist say in response?

I think both my Endo and therapist realized I was not a threat to myself, but there was certainly some urgency. In my 55 minute hour with the therapist, she recognized the need for transition, promised my HRT readiness letter, and questioned how I managed 55 years with this amount of dysphoria. Either she was very astute, or just recognized informed consent when she saw it. Either way, my endo agreed, prescribed, and is always glad when I tell him this was the right (only) descision.
The only contact I have had with the therapist was a thank you letter, where I also told her I would be contacting her in the future when I start planning SRS.
Some may think I had hasty care, made hasty descisions, but it certainly works for me.

[mary something]

The non-determinism of when it is right makes it not terribly useful, however.

[/QUOTE]

yes I understand you on that one, however you did see more than one so I was just talking about similarities. Just trying to be helpful hun.

Interesting metaphor, You know that for the average diabetic patient if they spent 6 months getting cardio every day, following a healthy raw food diet, and losing weight a significant proportion of them would not NEED insulin anymore after 6 months nearly as much? They would probably still be diabetic or borderline so, but their body would be less dependent upon insulin injections.

[Kathryn Martin]

Mary said:


yes I know it can be turned on it's head but only if we keep it in the context of do or die. I'm not saying it isn't do or die EVENTUALLY, the only reason I would have transitioned in my late teens was if I had believed that it was okay to do so to be happy. I didn't have the years of doing everything else to solve my problem and see it fail to get to the do or die place at that time. And lets be frank also, biological males are taught that being male is a privilege by society even if we don't exactly understand why. It's easy at that stage to think a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush. We haven't figured out yet that we actually have a hand full of bird crap because we don't yet know how difficult a male life will be as an adult for a woman.
These are a couple of very astute observation. The issue of male privilege is is the carrot we dangle, most often not consciously in front of ourselves. In my view this is the actual root of the fear that non-transsexuals have of transition. Politically, if you have watched the TG activists over the last couple of years you realize that what it all points towards is for them to be "women" but keep the male privilege. The idea of losing this "security blanket" is unthinkable. Transsexuals may have the same fears but losing what should not have been yours is less of a problem than living the in-authentic life. Intensity of this determines how long it takes to actually do it. Late transitioners battle male privilege like the f*cking plague. I have to laugh when someone MtF trans tells me they either don't have male privilege or don't exercise it.

The do or die place is an interesting one. I sometimes have doubts about those that claim to have been there understanding what that place in fact is.

[PaulaQ]

The do or die place is an interesting one. I sometimes have doubts about those that really have been there understanding what that place in fact is.

Please elaborate on this if you don't mind Kathryn, I'd appreciate hearing your thoughts on the matter. Also, were you ever in such a dark place?

[Rianna Humble]

I have probably allowed the thread hijacking to go on for too long already so congratulations on getting another thread closed early