Male Privilege

[Michelle789]

I saw some interesting dialog on the thread "I Should have been born a female/I was..." about male privilege. There was obviously some debate about the advantages of being male. So I have a question I want to ask everyone on this forum. Everyone is welcome to answer, please just answer all required questions and follow my one rule.

1. Required. Do you think there is an advantage to being male? Do you think men have it easier than women, or vice versa? Or maybe both genders have it equally tough, but in different ways.

2. Required. Please state your identity. Please state whether you are a CD, TG, TS, gender fluid, gender queer, bigender, dual gender, GG, GM, genderless, or whatever your gender identity is.

3. Required. Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

4. Optional. Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

Please state your answers to #1-3 (and 4) only. No arguments. No name-calling. I don't want this thread to turn into another sexist, name-calling, denial, bashing other people, bickering, button-pushing thread I've seen in some others here.

My answers.
1. I believe both sexes have it equally tough. There are certain areas where women have it tougher, and certain areas where men have it tougher.

I would say in more conservative environments men have more privileges than women, but in a more liberal environment there's a trade-off. I will say both sexes have it rough in 3rd world countries, North Korea. Just remember there was a time in the USA where neither men nor women could vote - only rich, land-owning, white men.

2. My identity: TG

3. My childhood environment was conservative.

4. My current environment: liberal

[gautier_nikolai]

1.I believe women have it tougher because, where i live anyway, they are expected to start careers, then have babies, then go back to high flying careers and juggle the kids like the current Yahoo CEO professes anyone can in book.
Also there is more of a pressure to keep their figures than on most men and alot of athletic or slim men when young go to pot-bellies when older because well stress causes fat accumulation and less time to make healthy choices.Women tend to also look after the parents more often when they start getting older and any potential problems.Not always i know!

2.Gender fluid and CD sometimes.

3.Pretty liberal religiously.I was brought up in the 90's as a teenager and live in London,UK.However, the pressure was there to succeed amongst peers male and female and still is here.Politicians have taken a dim view vocally publicly lately of women and men who don't go back to careers after babies and ofcourse most women like men in London want to or have to have fairly stressful, highly paid jobs to afford to live here (rent let alone get a mortgage!)

4.Current environment still London and liberal but again certain expectations of keeping up with the Joneses are definately here in London.Both partners having great jobs, getting the kids into the right private schools, looking after the kids and parents etc..I hate London.I will move someday.

[Amanda_Robinson]

1) There is a trade-off between people being less likely to take advantage of a man (under various circumstances) vs certain allowances generally made for women.
2) CD absolutely
3) Southern Catholic moderate home
4) We are progressive Catholics in the conservative leaning southwest

[ReineD]

I'm a GG, raised and currently living in a conservative environment. I, however, march to the beat of my own drum and am anything but conservative. :)

Even though I agree there are advantages and disadvantages to being both male and female, I believe there decidedly is male privilege in our culture. I won't give all the reasons ... there is an excellent blog (written by a male) that outlines a forty-six item checklist. The last item is: "I have the privilege of being unaware of my male privilege."

It's worth the read:

http://amptoons.com/blog/the-male-privilege-checklist/

[PaulaQ]

1. Women have it tougher than men in most situations in life. Period. No one passes laws regulating vasectomies...
2. I am a woman. I am a transitioning transsexual and a trans woman, if you insist on such distinctions.
3. I grew up in Texas, born a few months before Kennedy was killed, and then the guy who killed him was killed. It was extremely conservative. Stores were closed on sundays. In many counties, you could not legally sell or purchase alcohol. State law outlawed gay sex, and police could, on the flimsiest of pretext, enter your home and arrest you for it.
4. Although I'm in Dallas again, I live in the gayborhood - yeah, it's pretty socially liberal here. It's another planet compared to North Dallas.

My views about women are largely shaped by what I've observed women in my life, including my sister and female friends endure. To be blunt, they got screwed in life - a lot. Issues that harassed them just sailed right by me, because I was a dude. It made me sick, and it still makes me angry.

[Roli F]

Me being about 80 20 split between my male and fem sides definitely male has the easier lifestyle, wash go and Foxtrot Oscar :devil:
but I would not change anything about my life, so love my femme side too with all that goes with it. :Pullhair:

[Zylia]

So what are you going to do with this survey? Can we expect some kind of conclusion based on the results?:D

1 Do I think there's an advantage to being male?
I don't think this is a matter of opinion. There obviously are some ways in which men are not-so privileged and we have come a long way since the early 1900s, I have to agree with the male rights activists on that, but male privileges don't 'outweigh' female privileges, they totally obliterate them. If you think we've reached the point of gender equality, chances are you're a privileged western white male yourself and/or don't go out much or speak to women who deal with their 'privileges' on a daily basis. Read Reine's linked article and see what I mean.

2 What's my identity
Hopefully irrelevant, but privileged white male who occasionally crosses gender boundaries, mainly in presentation. Might be the result of transgenderism and/or relatively low levels of prenatal androgen exposure.

3 (&4) Conservative or progressive background
My background from a US-centric point of view probably is radically progressive, socialist and liberal. From a European point of view I have liberal but also traditional family. My parents are 'barely Catholic' and me and my brothers are all pretty much nonreligious social liberal 'men of science', but we still enjoy family life together.

[Beverley Sims]

Michelle,

1. Required. Do you think there is an advantage to being male?
No.
2. Required. Please state your identity.
I gave up on labels, I only put them on preserved fruit jars these days. :)

3. Required. Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid.
Conservative

4. Optional. Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment.
Same as three.

[Brynna M]

1. I think the research pretty much hands the advantage to being male. With that said I really do think that the pressure to adopt traditional gender roles (i'm talking about jobs parenting hobbies not clothes) is at least as strong if not more so for men (of course I say that never having been a woman)

2. I suspect I'd be classified as a CD by most.

3. I grew up in what I would call an apathetic environment. Most of the things that are social hot buttons didn't intrude on our lives and me and my family never cared enough to go looking to form judgements on them.

4. I'm in the northeast so I would say the environment is neutral with pockets of both liberal and conservative bents. I'm not religious and the company I keep simply isnt concerned enough with these issues to make it a focus of anything.

[Christina Kay]

#1 Men do have an advantage( I work in a, 99% male dominated field) So any women REALLY are at a disadvantage.
. #2 TG
#3 Born and raised in jersey. Liberal Catholic household, grew up during the 60's. Remember the birth of womens liberation,and the discussions at the dinner table.1 of 5 , middle child ,3 sisters. Dad died when I was 14 ,my mother then raised us 5. That is when I learned of the incredible strength and versatility that women possess.
#4 still in jersey. Still very liberal. Spiritual but not religious . And married a strong , versatile women. Who still amazes me with what women possess. And I could only hope to emulate that.

[Allison_Leslie]

1. MALES certainly have an advantage, business-wise. I will also say that females that are considered to be beautiful by males, also have an unfair advantage over other females.

2. CD male. Identifying as 60 percent male, 40 percent female.

3. Grew up ULTRA-CONSERVATIVE

4. Live in a very liberal environment.

Males have a basic advantage I believe.. in the business world.. but so do VERY attractive females. this is not WHY I Crossdress at all.. however. The caveat to the attractive female getting what she wants most of the time is she can't answer for skills as the males just GIVE her everything.. but she rarely ever has to.. us guys have to answer for skills and so we can bring our game cause we're trained that way as males. the ones with the least advantage are average and unattractive females and its sad.. but they have to work the hardest. that's our effed up world we live in.

[MatildaJ.]

I think both genders have it tough in different ways, and how easy your life is has more to do with race, class and temperament than with gender.

I'm GG, but I identify toward the genderless side of that.

I grew up in a very progressive environment.
I currently live in a fairly progressive environment.

[Tristessa]

1. Male privilege is a real thing. Men are socialized into behaviors and attitudes that give them advantages, and sometimes still benefit from overt sexism. Think about your average CEO - being competitive and socially dominant are huge success factors. Men are socialized into these behaviors naturally, and believe that they are our right. Women have to learn them, intentionally, and many struggle with guilt about the gender role transgression of enacting these behaviors/characteristics. I agree with the comments about "hot girl" privilege as well.

2. CD male
3. Conservative - upper-middle class, white, politically conservative, protestant.
4. Progressive, except when I see my parents :)

T

[JenniferYager]

1. Both have it tough, depending on what they want to do.
- Women have it easier getting into college (http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/01/staggering-college-degree-gap-favoring-women-who-have-earned-9-million-more-college-degrees-than-men-since-1982/)
- Women have longer lives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy#Gender_differences)
- Men fit in better in physical, engineering and science based jobs. Women fit in better in nursing and teaching jobs. Step from one into the other, and you have to adjust...just ask any male teacher at a grade less than 6 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/03/elementary-school-bias-boys_n_2404898.html)
- Men have an easier time climbing a corporate ladder. However, they are expected to sacrifice their family time to do so, and things like work/life balance don't get applied to them.
- Men have a way easier time buying clothes!
- Only men can be conscripted into the military.

I think the biggest thing people attribute "male privilege" to is the fact that a bunch of "traditionalists" don't see their point of views. The truth is that what we consider conservative here is considered very liberal in other places in the world. Catholicism here is considered liberal by most Islamic states because it, among other things, allows female saints, but at the same time some versions of Islam are 100% OK with transgenderism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexuality_in_Iran), whereas Catholicism is not. Look outside of the English-speaking world before talking about any gender-privileges, and you might be surprised by what you find.

Most cultural identities can be broken down into business transactions. Women stayed home back in the day because taking care of a house was a full-time job. The vacuum, dishwasher, sewing machine (which reduced time needed at home) and World War 2 (which educated millions of women to take jobs previously held by men) have probably done more to open up career paths for women than any lobbying efforts have. The transaction now is focused more on individual satisfaction, and you see some people try to balance climbing a corporate ladder while raising a family (http://women2.com/10-steps-to-being-a-happy-ceomom/), and others reject that model entirely (http://themattwalshblog.com/2013/10/09/youre-a-stay-at-home-mom-what-do-you-do-all-day/). In the end, you have to be happy with what it is you do, and not look at others and desire what they have (the grass is always greener, but it requires more fertilizer and maintenance). The fact is we can pursue WHAT we want now with much more freedom, but keep in mind everything has a cost. Spend time at work = less time with kids. Spend time climbing a corporate ladder = spend less time on hobbies. If you want the benefits, you have to take the associated costs too.

2. CD

3. Grew up in a mildly conservative household.

4. In a relatively liberal household.

[Angela Campbell]

Do you think there is an advantage to being male? Do you think men have it easier than women, or vice versa? Or maybe both genders have it equally tough, but in different ways.
If you are a male then there are advantages because these are the things you would desire from life. If you are a female then these advantages have less to offer. Most of the perceived privileges are based on power, and that does not interest me at all. I see many of these privileges as things forced on me. A man is expected to be strong, dominant, and less emotional and I would prefer to be treated as weaker and more emotional. I want someone to open doors for me, to be strong for me while I care for the others in my family. I do not want to be aggressive or be a leader. I do not want the power of controlling others. I do not want to be aggressive and be held to the male standards. If I am paid less and thought of as weaker then that is fine by me. What many see as male privilege seems more of a burden to me. I didn't find growing up as a boy to be very easy at all. You see the male privilege comes with the male expectations.


Please state your identity. Please state whether you are a CD, TG, TS, gender fluid, gender queer, bigender, dual gender, GG, GM, genderless, or whatever your gender identity is.
I am true transsexual. I am a woman. I will go full time in a couple of months and get SRS in about a year.


Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...
I grew up in rural Georgia. Bible belt, conservative, redneck....not tolerant at all of anything out of the norm. Was raised in the Catholic church.


Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...
I live in Florida. It is considered pretty conservative and it appears pretty liberal. My family is very conservative but with complete loyalty towards me anyway.

[Kate Simmons]

Male privilege is an illusion. Women really run the world. Why do you think we want to get in on that by doing what we do? :battingeyelashes::)

[NicoleScott]

Let's not pretend there are no female privileges. As Angela said (Post #15), male privilege comes with male expectations.
For example, this reminds me of an event about 30 years ago. I worked in an office building, and one day when it was time for me to go to lunch, I went. When I returned, my boss (a man) started to chew me out for going to lunch, leaving only women in the building (the other men were at lunch, meetings, etc.). I asked why that warranted a chewing out, he answered that someone may come into the office with bad intentions. I replied that my job description did not include "bodyguard". After further discussion, he agreed, but he still held the expectation of man=protector.
And there's the expectation some have that man is the provider and woman is the nurturer. Some people still raise eyebrows when they hear of a man staying home to care for the kids because the women makes more and that's what they jointly decided would be best.
And men are expected to be stronger and do the heavy lifting, even if the task really isn't too arduous for a woman. At work, a payroll clerk kept asking me to carry a box of time cards upstairs to the storage room, since it was too heavy for her. Actually, it wasn't too heavy for her, she just wanted someone else to do it. Finally, one day after being asked, I was busy doing something else, so I brought her two smaller boxes, so she could divide the load, for easy carry (well, carries). HA! Yes, it pissed her off!
At work, there was an early-morning department meeting. Eight men and one woman. Guess who was asked to make the coffee.
Finally, in an office full of industrial engineers, when the copier jammed, they always called the administrative assistant, the only woman in that office group. You would think that a bunch of engineers ........
Privileges and expectations work both ways.

[Stephanie Sometimes]

1. Do you think there is an advantage to being male?
Sometimes yes and sometimes no, but no, not in a general sense, at this time in most places here in the US where I live. Some other places in the world obviously yes. Everyone has different levels of difficulties to deal with in life depending on individual circumstances, some visible and some invisible, equality of opportunity is BS. There is always the human tendency to think the grass is greener on the other side of some dividing line but that is usually an illusion.

2. Please state your identity.
CD sometimes

3. Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid.
Liberal catholic upbringing in a conservative southern state.

4. Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment.
Liberal part of a libertarian-conservative western state

Hugs,
Stephanie

[hazelm]

1. Its mostly better for men. But I think GGs have it better than CDs or TGs or TSs or what have you.

2. CD

3. Conservative

4. Conservative

[Nadine Spirit]

1. Both genders have their struggles and advantages. I think economic factors influence far more if your life is easier or harder.

2. Hmm a TG CD, but possibly best would be gender fluid, for those that know those definitions.

3. I grew up in a conservative environment.

4. Geographically my area is rather conservative, but family wise we are quite progressive.

[Billiejosehine]

1. I believe that there advantages and disadvantages to each gender. Traditionally men have more power in society, but it also depends on race, culture, religion, social economical status, ect. Society is constantly changing and now a day that line between who has advantages over the other is becoming equal.

2. I would have to say TG, but I haven't begun my transition and mostly CD at the moment. In reality I don't to define myself by any label. I am just a spiritual being that is making the best of what was felt to me at birth. I am constantly discovering who I am and do what feels natural, right, and makes me happy.

3. When it comes the question of growing up in a conservative or progressive home is hard to say because I never really paid much attention. All I know is my family are Christian, very opinionated, and judgmental of other people.

[suchacutie]

1. Both genders struggle but, unfortunately, women still generally have it a bit tougher in some environments and a lot tougher in others.

2. bigendered

3. Conservative upbringing.

4. Generally progressive environment now, but I personally average out by choosing a conservative or progressive stance issue by issue.

[Gillian Gigs]

1. Required. Do you think there is an advantage to being male? Do you think men have it easier than women, or vice versa? Or maybe both genders have it equally tough, but in different ways.

I have seen the womens movement make great strides in my life time. As a child, I would say it was a "man's" world. In the spectrum of business, women still have an up hill battle. It doesn't matter what the business either. There are areas of equality, but women still have a long way to go in some areas!

2. Required. Please state your identity. Please state whether you are a CD, TG, TS, gender fluid, gender queer, bigender, dual gender, GG, GM, genderless, or whatever your gender identity is.

I am a CD'er who has some tendencies that fit more into the feminine, than masculine. Like maybe 70-30 in favor of guy.

3. Required. Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

It was a conservative household. My Mother, a stay at home person, had a very strong influence, as my Dad was a Railroader who was gone alot. In our area, it was deffinately small C conservative, in a time when most people went to church on a Sunday. Religious affilation was a main stream small L liberal church.

4. Optional. Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

I presently live in a rural conservative small town. The home environment is fiscally conservative, but liberal in regards to social issues. As in, health care, feeding the poor, unions, equal opportunity, etc. My religious affilation is an eclectic work in many ways with some thoughts being conservative and some liberal.

[Dawn Gurl]

Unfortunately, I see the male still having more advantages in business world. Females are gaining ground, but not as fast as they should be, and not because of any thing they do. The male has dominated in so many areas that females are still sadly looked upon as a lesser gender, which is wrong.

I am CD

My upbringing was in a very conservative environment

The area that I live in , New England, is still very conservative in my eyes

[KellyJameson]

I'm TS and struggled with GD since my earliest memories. Grew up in an extremely liberal household partly from being born in Europe (culture) and than living in Los Angeles among entertainment people due to parents work.

I still reside on the west coast of the U.S, usually either SF or Seattle depending on school and work.

I personally do not think there is such a thing as male privilege as "the whole male gender" having privileges that the female gender does not.

Males die younger and nature knows this and why more males are born than females. The individual male is at a disadvantage compared to the individual female but collectively they suppressed the female to control reproduction and access to sex largely to appease the males to create social stabilty.

The true difference is between the wealthy and the poor and traditionally males controlled the wealth making it appear there was male priviledge when it is really wealth priviledge.

It is not about gender but money and who has it.

Male fetuses abort spontanously at a higher rate than female fetuses.

Male on male violence is greater than female on female violence and more males die by the hands of other males than females die at the hands of males often in state sanctioned wars.

Males die earlier than females of natural causes as well.

Males also mainly hold the physically dangerous jobs and are far more likely to die in work related accidents.

Males are more likely to experience child abuse resulting in serious injury or death but both sexes are about equal in the incidence of sex abuse.

Males are more likely to take risks resulting in accidental death, particulary during their teen years and well into their thirties.

Males are more likely to be put to death by the state for the exact same crime a female commits so males are not equal in the eyes of the law.

Males are also more likely to be unjustly accused and falsely imprisoned of a crime by the state and this has always been true across time and culture.

[LilSissyStevie]

1. There was no advantage for me. But I do think about poor Mrs. Buffett. Her husband Warren makes all that money and get all the accolades but she doesn't even have a paying job.

2. Gender fluid.

3. I grew up in my paternal grandparents home. They were Communists, Stalinists actually, if that's your idea of "progressive." My father was apolitical and my mother was/is a New Deal Democrat. The environment I grew up in is best described as psychotic.

4. My little farm is an anarcho-capitalist utopia. But I'm surrounded by an mixture neocons, hippies, fundamentalists, Wiccans, RonPaulians, illegal aliens, cowboys, bikers, left wing survivalists, right wing survivalists, Indian reservations, pot farms, meth labs, sex offenders who can't live within a 1000 feet of anything, people who have been probed by aliens, and big foot sighters. The usual rural types. I guess you could call my current environment - interesting.

[TinaMc]

1: I believe there is an advantage to being male, definitely. I believe in intersectionality, so the most privileged in society are upper class heterosexual cis-gender white middle aged men, and each point further away from that the privilege level sort of drops. It's a fairly simple points-based heirarchical system ;). Being male means you are always more privileged than any female in the same set of other personal circumstances.
2: CD/trans
3: My family was kind of middle of the line, probably. I don't know, hard to say, but not hardline either way. Probably conservative leaning in that sort of baby boomer British expat in Australia in the mid-80s way...
4: Progressive.

[Angela Campbell]

I do think about poor Mrs. Buffett. Her husband Warren makes all that money and get all the accolades but she doesn't even have a paying job.


I consider this a really big advantage not a disadvantage.

[mary something]

1. No, any advantages or disadvantages are because of a lack of understanding of how each gender perceives the world around them and then uses that understanding to meet their needs
2.It depends on when you ask of course. My life looks like this TS (very early childhood)-male-CD-gender fluid-Transsexual
3. incredibly and decisively conservative with acceptable behavior determined by sex and gender role
4. progressive

excellent points Kelly, I think that of course accumulation of wealth and resources always tends to happen gradually over time. That is the more assets you have the more you can make them work for you and produce even more assets.

I think the issue of privilige really comes into play when considering reproduction and the biological realities for men and women, matter of fact this in my opinion is the root cause of male privilege.

Consider that when a man is feeling pain and a woman is tired of hearing it how often do you hear "you think that is bad? Maybe you should try CHILDBIRTH!!!" :) It is incredibly effective isn't it? Have you ever wondered why? Hang on and keep reading then cause we're heading there.

How does a male know for sure that his partner is really carrying his child and not another mans?

This is a BIG deal to a male. That is why it is the classic tabloid show scenario- It gets people's attention because EVERYONE who has procreated has skin in that game! It's personal!

Much of what we consider male privilege is simply a set of social rules that have been established to create a culture where men can be more reasonably assured that their mates babies are also theirs.

That is also why men will fall out of love and feel their connection is lost with their partner if the sex dries up in a relationship, it has to do with paternity insecurity and is so deeply ingrained in his thinking by that stage of his life that he probably doesn't see it for what it is. He only suspects the love is gone when the sex is gone. The problem is that women then feel that sex is an OBLIGATION and anyone who has a libido shaped by estrogen will understand how much that would kill your desire!

You (Kelly) made an excellent point that isn't always considered but is true and shapes a lot of peoples desires to have cross gender expression in my opinion. The average male suffers more from the misandry that is a result of male privilege (patriarchy) than they benefit from the other parts of the system EXCEPT it is a system that helps to maintain that their children are biologically their's and not another man's, hopefully preventing a lifetime of work and effort to help someone else's progeny get a good start to life.

That is why women are considered ****s for having sexual feelings and men are rewarded for being "real men" by our culture. But then women face the incredible pressure of being an angel in the kitchen and a devil in the bedroom. Talk about telling someone how to be!!! that is a LOT of pressure. No wonder so many marriages face intimacy problems after they are well established!

That is why reproductive choice is STILL such a hot button issue today and the traditional sources of societal power such as the church tend to stand firmly with a patriarchial stance and tend to promote a view consistent with male privilege so therefore they have strong rules concerning how women may reproduce and what their social role is (barefoot and pregnant, kindur kirche kuche, etc).

That is why there has been such a backlash from conservative movements against the sexual revolution and the destabilizing effect of birth control for women. It is changing the rules of the game and so there will be an adjustment on both sides.

Examples of misandry would be a male bodied person wearing female attire and being seen as dangerous, skeevy, pervy, creepy, etc. when we would NEVER attribute those qualities to a female bodied person wearing the same clothes doing the same actions. Another example would be comparing similar crimes between males and females and then considering that males are punished much more severely for the same actions than a female would be. This is the same force in play as male privilege but it's the flip side of it.

It all comes down to a struggle over reproduction and the anxieties that men have because of biology, and women's unconscious reaction to it.

It is very easy for a woman to see male privilege in the world around them, just get in an argument with a male and wait for the mansplainin to happen. That is basically when the man knows he is right because he is a man.

It is much more difficult for a woman to see that her own attitudes also agree with male privilige and sustain it through misandry. It's about as easy to get a woman to agree that this is so as it is to get a man to agree that he exercises male privilege without realizing it. You can see it through underlying assumptions such as

If a male engages in crossgender expression such as wearing clothes made for women he will be more likely to have a partner who is overweight, older, less attractive, etc.

If she assumes that a male is LUCKY that a wife tolerates him engaging in the same range of gendered dress, attitudes, and emotional responses that women freely have the right to do.

That is how a woman can find it discerning that a crossdresser enjoys the feeling of femininity that they experience through clothing or scents while asserting simultaneously that they only engage in these behaviors for practical purposes NOT because it makes them feel like a "woman". It helps them find an invisible line that to them is completely obvious, however when that woman is looking for a mate she will often do the EXACT same behaviors to express the EXACT same thing to others because she thinks it will help her chances of finding the best mate possible for her. She finds it creepy to observe a male bodied person doing these behaviors because she is taking part in this dance because of biological imperative (reproduction) but she assumes that the male bodied person is too! That is why it is not seen as simply harmless behavior.

You really can't have it both ways here. If you dislike male privilege there is very little that can be done to change someone else but by examining one's underlying assumptions for misandry the typical female will find that she is just as much a cog in the wheel of this phenomenon as the male who insists that he is right because he is male.

You'll see this reflected back in the most popular television shows too. Homer simpson, peter griffin, phil dunfy, and many other dad's of america's most popular fictional families are complete morons in domestic matters according to the reality constructed by the show. Why is that?

Women will argue that it is a reaction to previous shows such as the honeymooners where Alice is basically told she will be beaten until she shuts up, or "to the MOON Alice! To the moon!" and then the laughs ensue.

I don't think this is the case as much as it is internalized reactions to male privilege and misandry that both females and males each contribute to make this phenomenon sustain itself. Meaning that just because a lady says that she dislikes male privilege does NOT mean that she doesn't encourage it through her underlying assumptions and perceptions. She just reserves the right to change her mind at any time, the woman's prerogative lol.


1. Women have it tougher than men in most situations in life. Period.

That is an interesting observation Paula, and perhaps true in many ways at first glance, but maybe not. Would you agree that women are typically much more critical of men than men are of women? Think about your own life in the male gender role, what person was most critical of you and exerted the most pressure on you to stay in that role and what was their gender? Ask yourself who has sacrificed more because you wish to change your outward appearance?

Have you ever seen a woman try to guilt another woman? It doesn't work nearly as well lol, except for mother/daughter relationships of course. When a woman tries to manipulate another woman with guilt the reaction is really kinda hilarious usually. Matter of fact it has been my observation that if you want to see how ruthless a woman really is see how she responds to another woman (not her mother) who is trying to manipulate her with guilt.

Have you ever considered that sympathy and guilt are forces that women can use to influence other's behavior that are much more powerful than typical male behaviors such as intimidation or threats of expressed violence? If you don't believe me than ask yourself in the case of a typical TS child what is more effective at keeping them in the wrong gender role for life 1-a father's physical punishments or 2- a loving sympathetic mothers admission that it will destroy her internally for her daughter to live authentically and therefore should remain in the wrong gender role for the mother's comfort?

I simply say this because in my observations in life it seems that women are typically much more critical of their male partners than vice versa. A woman can manipulate a man with guilt much more effectively than a man can guilt a woman partner. Why do you think that is? Is it because you agree that they are screwed? If so why do you think some biological males desire to also join a group that is effectively screwed by society? Is it perhaps to escape guilt sometimes? Why should anyone EVER feel guilt about something they have absolutely no control over (their birth sex)?

Do you also feel sorry for Mrs. Buffet?

Anyone transitioning gender roles should become very intimate with how each sex uses what they have available to manipulate the other sex, otherwise they run the risk of becoming socially autistic by accident.

How many men realize that guilt is the most powerful force a woman can use to produce action and yet also deny any intent?

How do men react to a weeping woman?

I ask all of this because the way I have learned to recognize a woman who TRULY doesn't believe in male privilige will NEVER use guilt because of gender as a manipulator when dealing with her partner (male). If she does out of habit it can be effectively stopped immediately and she will not feel angry or mistreated. If someone likes to crossdress or is considering a gender role transition that is the single most important aspect of finding the right person to have a relationship with in my opinion. Or at least I can say it worked for me ;)

To put it another way it is only natural if a man and woman in a relationship have both internally agreed with male privilege then you'll see this because the woman will be able to guilt her husband for being a man. She might deny that she agrees with male privilege but she is USING it, and that is really what matters isn't it? Maybe this is what Kate meant when she said


Male privilege is an illusion. Women really run the world. Why do you think we want to get in on that by doing what we do? :battingeyelashes::)

I think this is much harder to see unless you were excluded from the gender binary from birth and then consequently searched and struggled until finding understanding of the strange world in which you inhabit. In my life it has always astonished me just how blind some people can truly be to the forces that control them yet oddly enough I also yearn for that yoke.

The things I have written about are why men will ask themselves but never understand "what do women want?" when the answer really is that they want you to quit asking that effing question lol :)

One last observation. Have you ever wondered why people have such an intense discomfort with transsexual people? It has a lot to do with why I'm able to write this post from the perspective that I see it. We don't naturally fit into society until we understand ourselves, and it is really hard to understand what you are when you live in a society that proclaims you don't exist.

The reason that is so would be a good choice for another thread topic perhaps but I need to go fold some laundry so till then...

[KayleeTaylor]

1. Required. Do you think there is an advantage to being male? Do you think men have it easier than women, or vice versa? Or maybe both genders have it equally tough, but in different ways.

I don't see any advantages. I know most people here say there are occupational advantages, but for me that is just not the case. In fact, I might of had more of an advantage had I been female. All the jobs I have ever had were not gender-specific, and more often than not, females would be in a supervisory position. Even in my military career, in my MOS, there were always more women than men. I was even allowed to switch my MOS to stay at a duty station because I was a single parent and couldn't or didn't want to move. My two MOS's were: Signal Officer and Food Service Specialist.


2. Required. Please state your identity. Please state whether you are a CD, TG, TS, gender fluid, gender queer, bigender, dual gender, GG, GM, genderless, or whatever your gender identity is.

I had known before I started crossdressing that I should have been born female.


3. Required. Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

Conservative and very religious, my dad would always try to toughen me up, but his idea o do so was very cruel and he was also a heroin addict, and his addiction killed him. We were Baptist, went to church every Sunday and as a family we lived our own lie to the rest of the community. Behind closed doors, we were anything but a happy family.


4. Optional. Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

I am a liberal, non-religious person. I do my best to raise my daughter in a happy, safe environment. I allow my mom to take my daughter to church, but only when she wants to, not when my mom wants to. She only likes to go to church to socialize with the other kids and wear pretty dresses.

[PaulaQ]

That is an interesting observation Paula, and perhaps true in many ways at first glance, but maybe not. Would you agree that women are typically much more critical of men than men are of women? Think about your own life in the male gender role, what person was most critical of you and exerted the most pressure on you to stay in that role and what was their gender? Ask yourself who has sacrificed more because you wish to change your outward appearance?

Both my sister, and her best girlfriend, both divorced fairly recently, were married to highly critical, and even abusive men. Our girlfriend - who's very good looking but a little overweight - was constantly harangued by her husband to lose weight, and told that her appearance was a direct reflection on him! Ultimately, he divorced her for this reason. (He was no buff stud himself, let me tell you.) My brother-in-law habitually cheated on my sister over the years, criticized and ran her down verbally, and ultimately pushed her out of a moving vehicle.

I think being overly critical goes both ways. I've also known a woman who was just as abusive as any man, and another who habitually filed sexual harassment suits when relationships at the office turned ugly. (Which they did - because of her.)


Do you also feel sorry for Mrs. Buffet?

I have no idea whether I should or not. Contrary to popular belief, money doesn't supply happiness. Sure, not having sufficient money is a hardship and a misery, but I've known plenty of women who were married to wealthy men, who seemed to have everything, but needed a fifth of vodka a day to stand their lives.

Things have improved in terms of male privilege, but I can remember during my lifetime when:
- my single mother couldn't get a promotion at work she was more than qualified for, and deserved, "because the guy they gave it to had a family and needed the extra money." (Obviously my sister and I didn't count as "family")
- women couldn't obtain credit in their own names, or doing so was extraordinarily difficult
- women were expected to ignore really egregious and flagrant sexual harassment in the workplace
- female victims of rape were normally blamed for the crimes "YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DRESSED LIKE THAT" (the pendulum in this case may well have swung too far the other direction, btw.)

These things have certainly improved over the past 40 years, but ask yourself this - why are there so few female scientists, engineers, and computer programmers? Why do so few women take higher mathematics in college? There are still plenty of examples of bias left in our society. Men don't notice this stuff because that's the beauty of male privilege - you don't have to notice it.

[Michelle789]

I really want to thank everyone for their responses. I really appreciate it. I think we learned a few things from this little survey.

1. Your gender identity, age, and geographic location do not necessarily shape your views on male privilege.
2. Regardless of your view on this issue, this is a very hot issue for those who are struggling with serious gender issues. It can certainly be a button for some of us.
3. We saw a variety of different viewpoints on this issue, and that variety was found across all gender identities, ages, and geographic locations.
4. We can discuss a controversial, button-pushing issue, without it turning into a death match.

I also want to thank everyone for following my simple rule and not turning this into World War 3. This is definitely a very sensitive issue for many, for both cis-gendered and transgendered people. It's one that has the potential to flare tempers and turn ugly, as we've seen this happen before on other threads on this forum. I really appreciate that everyone stuck to the rules and kept this thread a nice, clean, discussion.

Now only if we could discuss religion and politics like this, we would have a better world :)

[AngelaKelly<3]

1) I think everyone has it tough, but in different ways.

2) That's quite a big question at the moment. I'm currently sailing my wee behind through some uncharted waters to find the answer somewhere...but for now we'll go with CD :hp:

3) I grew up in a house where my family liked to be outwardly liberal with LGBT issues, but really hold some deep-seeded fears of it. Like supporting same-sex marriage but saying, and I quote, "I don't think I could trust a man who ever wears woman's clothes...it's just wrong and weird!".

4) The environment I live in now is mostly the same, maybe a little bit less scared.

[Miss Briana]

1) I think we live in a gendered society and that has created a certain set of advantages and disadvantages for each gender. However, I think there are much more negative effects of being a woman in our society. The risk of of being a victim of violence and having to live with that is something that shouldn't be forgotten.

2) Male CD

3) Grew up in moderate Midwest household

4) Currently in a progressive environment. I live with my girlfriend who is very concerned with women's issues and gender dynamics in everyday life. This is definitely something we talk about or think about a lot (my views have definitely evolved a ton over the last few years).

[FemmeElastique]

1. I think women have it easier. Hands down. I think it comes from the society's expectations of the sexes. As a man, you are expected to provide for your woman. As a woman, it's like, in some way, you are provided for by your man. And he is your safety net.
I believe that sexuality and attraction plays a key role in our behavior towards each other. I also believe that women have the most control over things in general than men. Take a social situation. A single man and a single woman both go into a bar. It's pretty much guaranteed that the woman will have a much better time than the man, as people (particularly guys) will come up to her and start talking to her and offering to buy her drinks. A man in that same situation will probably be sitting at the bar alone drinking unless somehow he goes up to people and start talking to them. Not a very good night for him. Women can sit back and just let things happen. Men have to make effort to make things happen. Same at a party or get together. People will talk to the woman as opposed to the man.
A single man and a single woman both move to a new city and want to meet new people. The single woman will have a MUCH easier time meeting new people as friends, potential relationships, etc. It's much more likely that people will want to meet her to show her around the new city. Same with international travel. Women can much more easily find that cultural experience as the men in that country will attracted to her and offer to show her around and experience the new place while she's there.

I'm going by my experiences and observations while CDing and being a man.



2. I'm one of the few gay CDs. I am a gay man and I CD. I've been told that I am TG also. As time goes on, I feel more and more like a woman and I usually prefer to identify as a woman.

3. My environment was pretty normal as a child. I grew up in Louisiana. I was born in 1981 and graduated from high school in 2000. My family has conservative and liberal elements to them. They accept and are ok that I am gay. I've never had any problems with it. I've always surrounded myself with like minded people and created a liberal environment wherever I've lived. In fact, some of my family know that I CD. When I lived with my sister, I ordered clothes and heels on the internet and when I got the package I showed them to her! LOL :) As far as religion, my grandparents are more religious. My parents and I are believers, but don't go to church. Religion has never been a key part of our lives.

4. I live in Poland now. People say it's a conservative country and in some ways it is. But there are quite a few liberal elements in this place. It is, afterall, Europe. As I said, the people in my life are all pretty liberal and accept me for who I am and what I do.

[Laura J]

1. Do you think there is an advantage to being male? Do you think men have it easier than women, or vice versa? Or maybe both genders have it equally tough, but in different ways.

I think that if you tend to conform to the gender stereotypes men have it far easier (i.e. want to be a stereotypical male or female). If you don't wish to then it becomes more even.

2.Please state your identity. Please state whether you are a CD, TG, TS, gender fluid, gender queer, bigender, dual gender, GG, GM, genderless, or whatever your gender identity is.

3. Required. Please state whether you grew up in a conservative or progressive environment as a kid. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

More progressive. Not particularly religious most of the time.


4. Please state whether you presently live in a conservative or progressive environment. By environment, I mean a combination of how your family was run, the geographic area you lived in, the times, your religious affiliation, etc...

More progressive.

[FemmeElastique]

[QUOTE=almostalady;3372936]Do you think there is an advantage to being male? Do you think men have it easier than women, or vice versa? Or maybe both genders have it equally tough, but in different ways.
If you are a male then there are advantages because these are the things you would desire from life. If you are a female then these advantages have less to offer. Most of the perceived privileges are based on power, and that does not interest me at all. I see many of these privileges as things forced on me. A man is expected to be strong, dominant, and less emotional and I would prefer to be treated as weaker and more emotional. I want someone to open doors for me, to be strong for me while I care for the others in my family. I do not want to be aggressive or be a leader. I do not want the power of controlling others. I do not want to be aggressive and be held to the male standards. If I am paid less and thought of as weaker then that is fine by me. What many see as male privilege seems more of a burden to me. I didn't find growing up as a boy to be very easy at all. You see the male privilege comes with the male expectations.


Almostalady, you hit the nail right on the head! I feel the EXACT same way as you on the first question. It's nice to know that there are other genetic males who feel the same as you. When I CD, people view me and treat me differently. I find it MUCH better to be female than male. I suppose with this male "privilege" comes some responsibility, and you have to be strong, dominant, and less emotional. I'm strong in some ways, but not dominant. As time goes on, I'm really starting to notice others treating me like a man and I'm starting to not really like it too much. I want you to take a look at my answer to this question and tell me what you think.