Rage

[gonegirl]

There have been some recent threads in the TS section that contain posts expressing a lot of raw anger. The threads are interesting enough but the recurring hostility present reminds me vividly of the testosterone driven rage I used to have. It is jarring to experience it here in (what are supposedly) discussions among women. I'm not talking about the odd rant (I've been guilty of that myself), but something far more destructive.

Does anyone else feel it also?

[thechic]

You are 100% correct and its just not this Group ,I think it that horrible T Showing up , and its mainly MTF ts, not FTM ts.

[PaulaQ]

I think it is possible that you may be mistaking very blunt speech for anger. But that's my opinion. I'd have to imagine that the person writing some of that stuff was on the verge of tears all day. That their frustration over their situation, really all of our situations, and their relative lack of hope just made them a bit less diplomatic and polite than usual, perhaps. Feeling hopeless just doesn't make some behave at their best - at least I've observed that in the past.

But that would be conjecture on my part, since I'm unsure of whom you are speaking.

What I am pretty sure of though - and you can correct me if I'm wrong - is that ladies wouldn't misgender one another in a passive-aggressive fashion. Sorry if that's off topic - it just suddenly popped into my head for some reason. :)

[kimdl93]

Can I offer a more sympathetic, less testosterone related observation from my own life? I lived a good deal of my life with a fear that, stress or in any kind of dispute, might ignite an unreasoning rage...or at best an embarrassing, childish tantrum. These episodes happened in private and public. They only ended after I finally, deeply and truly accepted myself as transgendered and started living a life that is true to my identity. So many of us have long repressed or denied who we are. It's not surprising when that repression, coupled with a sense of being outcasts from society, is expressed as anger.

[Aprilrain]

Trannyland is full of dysfunctional people, that some of them might be angry is really not that surprising. I traded rage for seriously debilitating depression when I first started HRT. I did not get the pink happies that so many seem to get after just two weeks on the girl pills (why are they blue???). I had left my wife, moved in with a friend, considered suicide daily, ate very little, was unemployable, wasn't there emotionally or even physically for my kids, had no idea where all this would lead and looked like shit in my poorly chosen outfit and cheap wig. To top it all off I had to shave face to toe daily. Who in there right mind would be happy about any of that!?!? There is a reason why we have a 40% attempted suicide rate.

[Marleena]

I think April just nailed it there.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I hope you don't mind me asking questions. Is it because of the meds ? or unfulfilled expectations ? or are there other issues. I have a friend (FtoM) who has been on T for 2 years and I would have expected a more male type A personality change, but has not occurred. I have other friends (MtoF) who have gone from moderate type a to almost paranoid recluse (everyone is out to get me) during the first year of HRT.

[Ann Louise]

Dear S1m0ne,

Here I go again, just asking for it... but this is in my opinion only, and not intended to represent a series of transsexual "truths:"

My observation is that there are simply a lot of different trips on this board, some outright cries for help, some expressing the need to be heard (after years of repression, and an actual "answer" may or may not be appreciated), some as newcomers testing what appear to be shark-infested waters, and others honestly seeking advice and counsel or making observations, trying to head other girls off from some of the pitfalls that may not have been so obvious when they blundered in to them.

Some, too, (these seem to be the the ones with the most apparent "rage" to me) seem to seek to further their own personal self-aggrandizement, gaining whatever forms of gratification sustain them through their self-expression, and are apparently of the opinion that, by virtue of their studies, keen and penetrating analysis, their personal experiences, or by virtue of having surviving various surgeries intact, have been inducted into the ranks of those imbued with the "truth" of what transsexuality is or is not. They will enlighten us, unsolicited or not, in however rudely a manner they may feel like being at the time, and if you don't like it, then "you can't handle the truth," can you?

Please note that I have been responsible for most if not all of these forms of transgression, BTW - and am not throwing stones at the walls of my own glass house. I broke those out a while back, and ran out of stones.

But I would proudly maintain that we are all on the continuum of WOMEN, of one form or another, one stage of development or another, and these forms are subject to observation, learning and change as we continue to grow, mature as women, and decide how WE want to spend the remainder of our lives.

BTW, how many really less-than-pleasant genetic women have you known? Lots? I have. And do you think that we're all that much different from them, if at all? I don't.

With respect and affection,

)0( Ann )0(

[LeaP]

There's a lot of something, that's for sure. There are some outbreaks of real anger and bitterness. I have expressed some on occasion. Whether or not those are rants doesn't really matter. People in self-discovery (especially) are often in incredible pain.

But I still maintain that a great deal of what is taken for anger is not.

[mary something]

I think Ann makes an excellent point. We have all been that person at some point in time most likely. It is part of being human to feel rage and there are times and places that this emotion is helpful. A forum like this is a great place to let that steam out because it is much safer than doing it anywhere else, it is necessary to release the rage and it MUST come out or risk serious injury to mind and body.

I'm not so sure that someone can even apply a gender to rage. We can gender specific behaviors perhaps but in my experiences I have learned to be more cautious of an enraged woman than an enraged man. Simply put even if it takes longer for them to get to that point they will F you up if they do get pushed there. That is why nothing is more dangerous than a female protecting her young in my opinion.

I think it is good to have threads sometimes when we don't show our very best sides. I don't trust people who are fake and few other people do either. Oftentimes I write posts knowing that later when I reread them I will learn something from them and perhaps cringe at myself. Growth doesn't feel good but it is best to do it in the safest environment where the stakes are the lowest and in my opinion it is here as far as my life is concerned.

[PaulaQ]

I'm really enjoying thus thread. Talking about someone as if they aren't here to read what's said seems so high school girl clique!

Hey, I thought those types of experiences were way past me now, but sure enough, I'm getting to experience it! How cool is that? I think it's just way cool, although I kind of feel bad for the target, whoever they are! ;)

Thanks girls!

[celeste26]

As I grew up I experienced frustration after frustration, blocking my way on one path then another till it seemed like life was offering me nothing at all. I've been blocked by nature, blocked by lack of money, and blocked by people in authority. At this point in my life it is like a miracle that i am not fully engaged in this "rage." Over my life I have needed industrial strength stress reduction. I am thankful that I was able to use those stress reducers to eliminate most of that stress.

Now that I have come to HRT things seem so weird that there are no blockages. Can I deal with life without the need for stress reducers?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I dont' see it at all Simone..

Rage is a very strong word..

More than anything I see suffering reflected here. Not to get all pity party...there are lots of bad hands that get dealt to people...this one is a particularly bad one, partially because for a lot of us it rips the self esteem right out of us...it leaves us vulnerable to all human contact in a way that no one else can possibly understand..

do people get angry or bitter about it?? I'm sure they do...do we engage is heated and pointed conversations that sometimes border on personal statements...yep...

but I have to say I don't see hostility ...and frankly I think a lot of the most direct and pointed posters are trying their best to help other peoples...bs walks in transition world...and some people need to hear that..

[Jorja]

I think we all need to stop for just a minute and realize this is a forum on the internet not a telephone or an in person conversation. Things tend to get taken the wrong way. You might be just joking but another person reading might take your comment as being offensive or derogatory. They might feel you have personally attacked them when you didn't mean for it to come out that way. The next thing you know you are involved in a flame war. As most of the older members here will attest to, I am as guilty as the next person. Yes, we do have a few here that like to stir the pot. You will have a few of them anywhere. The next time you reply to a post just think a second before you press that post reply button.

[gonegirl]

I understand what you and some others are saying Kaitlyn. Dealing with (also not dealing with) being TS often causes incredible stress that will challenge even the best of us. Maybe I'm picking up on excess hostility here because I've had that be an unwanted part of myself for almost my entire adult life. What I had to face in myself was ugly. It was fueled by T and GD and it made me feel like I was being crushed with zero hope of escape. I suspect that others here will identify with my experience and I'm also guessing that some are still dealing with it.

[PaulaQ]

The interesting thing for me, S1m0ne, is that my hostility is almost entirely inwards directed. I very rarely lashed out at others, although towards the end, before I started transition, I did sometimes grow really visibly angry over really pretty minor stuff.

But whereas some people really feel like they need to reach out and strangle someone else in their rage and frustration, for me, if it comes down to it, I hate myself, and I'll end myself. I'm just trying to avoid that outcome as best I can. (I go to a lot of support groups, and go to a significant amount of therapy weekly.) Hey, it's better - so far I've gone from praying for death every night, and then feeling disappointed because I awoke the next morning, to today, where I really want to live.

This might surprise some here, but I'm actually a very diplomatic person. Too diplomatic - I pretty much lived my life telling people what they wanted to hear. I got really good at figuring out what that was, too. But that is no way to live - I can't lie all the time anymore. So now I can be really, really direct sometimes. I'm sure, in writing, that comes across as angry - but mostly it isn't. I am angry, I think with some legitimacy, over the way our condition is treated by health care professionals. My experience with it so far has not been wonderful. I hope that others have had very different experiences than I have, and so might legitimately wonder what in the hell I'm bitching about.

But I certainly mean no offense to anyone on this forum - if it has ever come across that way, then I'm sorry about that. But I also stand by what I say.

[arbon]

Its not really unlike most internet forums.

[Kathryn Martin]

It is a perfect reflection of the great delusion of the internet. You think you see things, you hear people speak, express themselves and all you hear: yourself talking to yourself...... You think this is reality? ...anyone? .....

[PaulaQ]

Yes Kathryn, I think this is real enough to some. I'm not sure why you feel this is an exercise in solipsism, but perhaps you'll explain further. And I'm sorry if it seems like I'm singling you out, or calling you out. That is not my intention - because what I'm about to say applies across the forum.

There are people who use this forum who often face really terrible and difficult situations in their lives. One of the more dangerous attitudes I've heard expressed on this forum is "it's only an internet forum, you shouldn't take it seriously", generally said after someone has said something that triggers another member to an episode of GD. I think this attitude - the lack of responsibility for our words, as if this is all one big joke, is a big cop out quite honestly. And I think given the nature of this forum - support for a socially stigmatized minority, one that often has other psychological comorbidities, such an attitude is just inexcusable.

But I've observed it all over the place here.

There are real people here, with difficult lives, often suffering from terrible personal losses. In my opinion, we are responsible for what we say here.

[Ann Louise]

Yes it is reality Kathryn, particularly when the things that are said or implied cut to someone's heart, cause pain, and in one case I know of here, led to a suicide attempt.

I find it particularly curious that you're here commenting on the reality of the internet when you're here nearly every day, how many times a day, and have got, what, 2,042 posts up here? Seems like you're doing quite a bit of "yourself talking to yourself," too. Or is that because you altruistically want us to benefit from more of your "truth?"

[LeaP]

...you hear people speak, express themselves and all you hear: yourself talking to yourself...... .

You got it! The forum is a foil. Quite personal at times, but a foil. The reality for me here is in the personal connections I've established. That is reflected to some extent in the threads, but most of it is private.

[whowhatwhen]

I think it's pretty interesting that no thread in this section lasts more than 3 pages before getting locked for usually the same reasons.

[gonegirl]

That's an interesting observation by Kathryn. Yes, I do read a lot here that I reflect upon my own experiences and feelings. I think it's a natural condition of relating to others who share something major in their lives (being TS, in this case).

To answer Kathryn's reality question, I suppose nothing experienced in the ether is reality. I believe that there are mostly real people here though, and many of them (Kathryn included) have given me an incredible amount of personal help when I really needed it. I wouldn't have made it this far without that help and I try to pay it forward to others when I feel confident enough to. I am grateful to have met some of my friends here in person and the rest I very much hope to meet some day, if only to say thank you. Until then, thank you!

OK, love-fest off, LOL.

OK, so bringing this thread back to my OP, I don't feel any of the raw hostility I spoke of in this thread so far.

[whowhatwhen]

It all just ends up being attacks and personally directed snarkiness.
I just want everyone to be happy so I'm enforcing a class 10 happiness field around everyone here.

[gonegirl]

I'm good with this thread segueing to other discussion.

[Badtranny]

Yes Paula, I am absolutely responsible for what I say but I am not responsible for how people may interpret it.

It is impossible to be more honest and forthcoming than I've been and that's pretty much all anyone can ask of a forum member. I stand by my comments that any opinions taken from the internet should carry about the same weight as a grocery bag full of hot air.

[mary something]

I think rage is exactly what happens until you understand why men and women do what they do. We're outside the gender binary right? Why is it so hard for us then if we've been observing people our entire lives to effectively fit into a role we don't fit to understand what motivations are at play?

this lack of understanding and being able to navigate your path well is what leads to situations that produce feelings of rage.

Maybe it isn't helpful at the moment but I think the best way to help someone dealing with rage is to ask them why? and then question their assertions and beliefs until we find the one that is making their life crap at the moment.

I have no problem with people expressing rage. I think it is really healthy. It is certainly better to do it here than anywhere in real life.

Hey it's only natural if you're living an incredibly frustrating life but don't understand how to make your problems better then you'll eventually feel rage. Good! Maybe you'll eventually feel enough that you'll want to change something?

If someone needs to rage then let them! They gotta release the negative energy! Trust me I don't worry about someone staying in a state of rage forever. Even the incredible Hulk turns back to Banner eventually.

THAT is when people need our support though. If we see rage as a bad thing then we turn our backs on those people when they need us the most.

So someone is really frustrated and rages to blow some steam off, big deal, haven't we all done that before?

Eventually they will chill out and THAT is the pivotal moment. That is when they will decide who and what is responsible for producing that behavior in them. That is when they (unknowingly) decide if their transition will be a success or not.

Do you blame things out of your control for frustrating you, then feel rage until your energy is depleted, then when still sad and broken feeling and your problems are still there do you want to give up?

Unfortunately telling that person to "be happy" does anything but, it makes me feel like stabbing somebody with a fork lol

If you want to help that person tell them what specifically they are assuming that is causing them so much pain. Well, actually telling somebody something is probably the worst thing to do ever. Then we have discussions about how imporant a hierarchy is and how one persons way of catching their fish was so much better than another persons.

At this point the person who was so frustrated has moved on and is still doing something wrong over and over and building back to a sense of rage from the perpetual problems they face that they cannot find a solution to.

They eventually rage again of course! because nothing is harder to live than an impossible life!

If we tell that person "try harder" does that help? If we say "your problems aren't real because you aren't real' is that helpful for anyone other than ourselves because lets be honest here. It is really stressfull seeing someone struggling and not knowing how to help.

The thing is that usually when something in your life needs to be changed to be happier the solution is NOT very difficult usually. It can be very simple. The hardest part is having the perspective to know what to do.

This usually involves understanding why men and women do what they do and being able to anticipate it with emotional intelligence and then planning a path of least resistance where we USE what we know about human behavior to our advantage!

You want people to give you their full support to transition and live as a woman? Understand women enough that everyone is convinced that you are a woman inside and trust me the men in your life (except your father probably) will TELL you to be a woman. they will crack jokes and do what they can to PUSH you out of their social circle because women aren't allowed.

The real problem lies in the fact of it is easier to lie to yourself than anyone else. That is why "support" forums usually aren't so much of one. Hierarchies are created EXACTLY because we don't know how to help someone when they feel rage so we look at what someone else has done to be successfull and try to copy their actions without understanding HOW they decided to walk their path intelligently.

The best thing we can do for someone feeling rage is to not let them blame the wrong thing when their energy is depleted and they are feeling tired afterwards. Don't blame yourself, don't blame others, matter of fact blame is completely useless because we learn NOTHING. and then the situation recreates itself over and over until that member is ostracized because people cannot handle the stress of not being able to help someone in pain.

The problem with a hierarchy is that unless the sacred cow always has the perfect answer then people doubt them. How unfair is that? Who in the world wants to have being perfect in their job description?

add to that the stress that TELLING someone is usually not very effective because to the person in crisis it sounds like 10 different people yelling something different at once.

Have you ever watched the price is right? You know that look the contestant gets when the entire crowd yells what to bid on an item?

That is what we are doing!!!

[Carlene]

I don't find so much rage here, as I do a group of people who have a fairly well defined view of the term transexual and therefore, perhaps, a realtively low tolerance for others who don't feel like crossdressers but are not ready or cannot commit to srs or live full-time as women, for any number of reasons. This group, and I must confess to being a member, doesn't feel like they fit in either category.

It isn't anyones fault but it can be difficult to navigate in either of the forums...........imho................Carlene:daydr eaming:

[mary something]

The problem Carlene is that even if you have srs society will not say you are a woman. There is a specific way to get people to understand that you are a woman but it is very uncomfortable until you've completely accepted that you are a transsexual and the male rules of behavior do not apply to you. Once you completely quit acting like a male socially at work, with friends, etc. and then give it time for them to recognize it and process it cis people will feel that it is a form of lying to them if you present as a female. They do not understand the difference between sex and gender because they have never had to and so they think you are confused because they cannot understand your actions until you help them do so.

It is difficult at first to completely abandon all of the method acting that we have done throughout our lives to fit into the incorrect gender role. When we do it at first we get rejected by the males around us and our natural instinct is to try and fit in for safety. We need to stop and realize that what feels like social anxiety at this stage is GOOD! Growth hurts.

If you want to play on the girls team the first step is to get kicked off of the guys team. If people think that you are trying to manipulate them with your image or trick them in any way they will ascribe all of the worst motivations of males to your behavior that to them looks like mental illness. That is how you get people in the media portraying us as one step away from pedophiles or worse.

Actually we're just women trying to be so but all of our experiences and natural reactions learned over a lifetime until transition are serving us wrong because up until that point we WERE trying to blend in.

If you don't think it can produce feelings of rage when the world gets turned upside down then just wait, it will.

The hardest part in my opinion is when confronted with male attention whether it be sexual or social pressure to conform. We cannot trust the instincts that a lifetime of living have given us and it is scary. That is when you find out if your desire to be an attractive woman was just a fantasy or if you can manage the intense tight rope it feels like walking on at the time. I wear tshirts and jeans and dress like other women do (androgynously) as much as possible to avoid attention. That is why women think we aren't women when we dress for attention at the wrong times or places, because it is not pleasant.

Typically people when giving us attention are trying to categorize us as either M or F. If we look too androgynous then perhaps they will force an encounter to see how you react to tell. People do NOT deal with uncertainty and NEED to classify you one way or another. We don't understand what is going on and feel that the unwanted attention is because we are not accepted.

This is partially true but if we let ourselves assume that acceptance is impossible then that is a big mistake. The trick is to be exactly who you are and own it in that situation so the person can categorize you and then feel comfortable. That to me is the hardest part of transitioning because your body produces a physiological response to stress. It is much harder to control your voice for example, basically your flying blind at first. Also you have to understand that you WILL be categorized as a transwoman unless you are genetically gifted, and even then you will still not pass perfectly but will feel like any other woman who is too tall, has feet that are too big, etc. You HAVE to be ok with that and embrace being you.

Understand that women live a life of feeling vulnerable to men especially. That is part of what it means to be a woman, this is when fantasy meets reality.

It is impossible to own who and what you are if you still feel it is a choice to not be transsexual. If you feel that the dysphoria that you felt from not being authentic was an outside force acting on you the first step to owning your identity is to realize that it was an inward force caused by your unconscious identity acting upon your conscious mind. It felt to me at the time like a compulsion but that feeling is different for different people. To better understand that read Kelly Jameson's posts.

If you want more advice about passing ask Kathryn, she has mastered it in the most difficult environment I can imagine. It depends on your reaction and if it is emotionally true to your identity. It cannot be a ruse.

[Carlene]

Mary Something.........perhaps, I missed something but I was attempting to address the concerns of the OP, who refers to components of rage found within the TS forum.

[mary something]

yes. Everyone of those situations caused me intense distress and then rage until I discovered how to overcome it. My entire response was detailing all of the mistakes I've made so far and how the frustration can lead to rage. Then I tried to describe the social environment here and it's strengths and weaknesses so that people feeling rage can understand how to get help here and avoid ostracizing themselves. Then I went on to explain that it is your REACTION and when you stop using blame to soothe yourself that real growth occurs. I also tried to tell the horse to drink some water, which I know better... Does that make sense?

Basically just remember that rage is useful like every other emotion. You HAVE to get the frustration out. It is what you do afterwards when you return to being Bruce Banner that keeps the hulk at bay lol.

[Inna]

Sadly I do not frequent threads anymore, but it isn't because I have run out of time, but simply due to lack of familiarity and understanding of current threads with things beyond.
I feel that at one point I have left the gravity of TransOnly planet and now hurdling through space of life, I am getting further and further away from being understood here within genre of my daily life.
Subjects here are, what I had, at one point considered my reality, but long gone to the memory of what once was.

Perhaps anger, frustration, pain are now perceived in quite different perspective then long ago, when such was a grit of daily struggle.
Now they simply feel like views of in-betweeners not quite male in nature, yet eons from female-cognitive perspective.
And then, this particular forum is open to anyone caring enough to comment, from fetishistic transvestite to postOP trans folks.

It is what it is! Once real home to a crying soul, now a distant family whom I care about but unable to convey my experience anymore.....

[mary something]

Inna would you agree with me that pain is given to us because we need to change something? Pain is the symptom the universe gives us when we need to learn a lesson?

[Tamara Croft]

We've had this before, to the point of almost shutting this section down because moderating it became too much. It is again becoming that way, certain people seem to steer threads in different directions, start being argumentative and get threads locked.

Well, this is how it's going to work from today, this raw anger is going to stop, you take threads off topic and cause arguments, I will simply block you from posting. This is a support section, not an argument section. Discussions, debates, even a tad heated is fine, causing shit on my watch is not on and it needs to stop before we head down that road again, because I sure as hell am not going down it again.

Up to you really, if this is your only outlet, then treat it with some respect!

[Inna]

Inna would you agree with me that pain is given to us because we need to change something? Pain is the symptom the universe gives us when we need to learn a lesson?

WOW Mary, you totally got it! I am so happy to hear you put it exactly this way! :-)
Pain being the result of distance between truth of desire and creator, the further the distance the more intense the pain.....

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I must have missed some crazy threads!!!

[mary something]

yes I understand that well Inna, and you are exactly correct that the distance is the issue isn't it usually. Have you ever been in a situation without a discernable distance between here and there? I understand the pain and rage that transition brings, I'm in the middle of it and it's rough. There are other issues going on right now that frankly make transitioning or even physical pain seem very mild to me at the time. I've heard very dear loved ones tell me I'm not family anymore and it hurt but I got over it, that is nothing to what I'm feeling.

Sorry Tamara for making your job more difficult. A personal mail would have been nice, but a public spanking is probably more effective? I care very little about the opinion of others right now but perhaps it will be a good lesson for someone else to observe. There are situations that make the relatively minor pain of embarrassment inconsequential and if you ever find yourself in that type of situation you'll know because you won't even care. You might not even notice how unable you are to simply carry out a few thoughts without dissociation. If you ever find yourself there and you need it I have understanding and kind words for you. I hope you never understand what I'm speaking of friend. If that day ever comes then play this as my gift to you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

[KellyJameson]

I have been drifting away from the forum so must have missed the rage displays but hot emotions are nothing new to the TS section and it is actually much calmer than I remember it from three years ago and I waited over a year to venture into the TS section with posts even though I very much wanted to be a part of it because that was the whole purpose of my joining the forum.

Back than the claws were quick to come out and most crossdressers would not dare to venture into the TS section and it was not uncommon for a crossdress to say they were glad they were only a crossdresser compared to the problems the TS section had.

One of the interesting comparisons in my opinion to gender dysphoria is Borderline Personality Disorder. There are some eerie similarities but the causative agents are completely different.

Both are created by trauma and both are about living identiless until each is resolved but with BDP you are guaranteed to see rage when abandonment is threatened because the person loses the only identity they have which is through the other person so they become "nothing"when abandoned, triggering an existential crisis.

I actually experienced people suffering from BDP as somewhat normal because I could understand them because they, like me, were suffering the consequence of an identity problem but mine was caused by the divergence between body and brain going in opposite directions and theirs by having their very being assaulted in childhood

The rage in gender dysphoria is tempered somewhat because the threats to identity are to gender identity but not existence per se.

A transsexual is living in a crisis that runs deep into the very center of their existence where identity lives so some level of rage must be a natural consequence because the fear is so intense. They do not disappear to the degree that the BDP sufferer does but it is similar in my opinion.

Without the rage the person feels like they will disappear or remain invisible similar to the person with BDP during abandonment

The one concern would be narcissistic rage because I definitely think there are high levels of narcissism in the transsexual community.

[Inna]

yes I understand that well Inna, and you are exactly correct that the distance is the issue isn't it usually. Have you ever been in a situation without a discernable distance between here and there? I understand the pain and rage that transition brings, I'm in the middle of it and it's rough. There are other issues going on right now that frankly make transitioning or even physical pain seem very mild to me at the time. I've heard very dear loved ones tell me I'm not family anymore and it hurt but I got over it, that is nothing to what I'm feeling.


Embracing truth in its entirety without concern for tomorrow caries a price. Abandonment, betrayal, being forsaken, all the consequences of truth not being able to be handled by those who carry burdens of their own within heavy hearts. They chose to step away, disown, instead of embracing the ones they so embraced only days before.
But true love in Unconditional, which means that there is no condition nor requirement. In fact those who use the blanket of love to posses, truly obey the master of conditional belonging.
As though a child first opens her eyes onto the world, naked, unprotected and innocent, you as well are such newcomer to the reality of truth.
But because of truth your heart shall become the beacon of light despite the burden of loss. You will shine the light of love, despite pain and anguish.
Somehow for me, transition was on one hand death and birth of anew, avatar I belonged in, and also on the other, spiritual awakening into the realm of true, loving and happy. How amazing of a journey, straight through the gates of hell, to arrive on the other side, scorned and blackened but free and true.

[mary something]

Thank you Inna. If you were in a situation where you had to choose between this struggle that you describe in your post and then deciding how much real physical pain you could allow a loved one to have to accept in order for your rebirth to happen how would you make this decision?

If it was simply a matter of removing limbs for example. Would you experience this rebirth if it only cost your child a leg? Would that be a compromise you could live with afterwards? What if it was both legs? If it were simply all their fingers would that make the equation balance?

How do you even solve that kind of problem?

I'm asking you since you are postop and reborn. Would you still make the decisions you have made at the TIME that you made them if you had to live the rest of your life with the knowledge that doing so cost your child their left arm? Hypothetically speaking of course.

So to boil it down. Would you feel the same way you do right now if your choice to travel this path resulted in permanent damage to your child? Would you feel good about your choice every time you saw your child?

Do you think you would still battle rage after transition in this scenario?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

yikes...


what if your child is left handed , would it make it harder for you to cut off their arm?
would you lay down your life for a family of five to live theirs?

I would bet every dollar i have that half the people would answer this type of question would do something different if the scenario actually happened, or if they had no time to think about it...

+++

theoretical questions are rhetorical strawmen...
"oh you so you WOULD cut off your daughters' arm"...hmmm
i would say outside of the high probability that you wouldn't go through with it, that the bit of information gleaned is useless except to argue about whether your choice is right or wrong...or to judge the person that answers.

added some context
fwiw...I have two kids..i have no doubt my transition impacted them in a negative way for a period of time...its possible I harmed them...so I have a horse in the race...in my own life...I concluded that it was necessary to transition..and I concluded I would do everything I could to make my transition less impactful to them... it felt like an impossible choice to me...but sometimes life is "impossible"...like the movie sophie's choice... events conspire to take away our sense of control of our lives, or to challenge our very superficial notions of what's right or wrong...decisions do get made that are of the order of magnitude above day to day decisions......and i would never judge the person who has to make the impossible choice.. ..


its interesting mary because i will call you out on this and hopefully not induce your rage...

you ask alot of questions...and yet you state "I care very little about the opinion of others right now but perhaps it will be a good lesson for someone else to observe......

[Kathryn Martin]

I am with Kaitelyn on this one. It is a complete strawman argument and really has nothing to do with any reality. Quite apart from the fact that the reality of becoming or of being whole would never harm anyone, this line of thought is the a guilt trip line that we tend to do to ourselves.

I will give you an example. I have had clients who were afraid of transitioning for fear of losing their children. They rationalized that they were the ones doing the damage to their children if they transitioned. The actual damage done was, however not by them but rather by either an adverse spouse or a court system that might or might not recognize these persons status as legitimate. We have to be so very careful in assigned blame to ourselves. We tend to be masters at it.

These kind of situations can never be discussed in the hypothetical. What you propose is ends in a double bind or catch 22. There are no acceptable outcomes. That however is not reality no matter how we might believe it might be.

[Kimberly Kael]

For a change, I'm in complete agreement with Kathryn here. Asserting your own identity is in no way a physical assault on another human being. Even with predictable social repercussions, it's more a matter of society pointing fingers and saying "see what you made me do" without taking collective responsibility for their actions. Still, we do tend to steer our children clear of danger even when it's not something we're directly responsible for, so there's a matter of trying to take control of how we transition to minimize the negative impact on our loved ones. It's neither fair nor justifiable, it's just one of those extra challenges life throws at us.

[Inna]

Thank you Inna. If you were in a situation where you had to choose between this struggle that you describe in your post and then deciding how much real physical pain you could allow a loved one to have to accept in order for your rebirth to happen how would you make this decision?

If it was simply a matter of removing limbs for example. Would you experience this rebirth if it only cost your child a leg? Would that be a compromise you could live with afterwards? What if it was both legs? If it were simply all their fingers would that make the equation balance?

How do you even solve that kind of problem?

I'm asking you since you are postop and reborn. Would you still make the decisions you have made at the TIME that you made them if you had to live the rest of your life with the knowledge that doing so cost your child their left arm? Hypothetically speaking of course.

So to boil it down. Would you feel the same way you do right now if your choice to travel this path resulted in permanent damage to your child? Would you feel good about your choice every time you saw your child?

Do you think you would still battle rage after transition in this scenario?

The answer lies within the truth of self!

What exactly am I speaking of?
In order to understand the purity of devotion to ones truth, we must first feel the universe and believe in how and why it works the way it does.
To the question regarding my child, if any harm was coming towards my child I would lay down my life to save his, however, I would not give in to a lie to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have asked weather I would cause pain onto my child in order to do selfish deed. But in fact when you understand the meaning behind TRUTH of One Self, selfishness does not describe what I want and things I am willing to hurt to get there, but it describes my utterly obedience of truth within my soul!!!

I not only would but I had risked my life for this truth willingly. I am a survivor. At one point pain had gotten so immense that life simply didn't present an option. Death was my savior, she was willing, forgiving and beautiful, she was the forgiver and emancipator. But something had kept me here despite my own desperation.
Once I understood that I had an army of angels behind me, and I shall never be alone, I could take the most painful of pain.

I spoke out in truth and in love, I have dropped my shield to the ground and stood naked without protection, but now, my truth was my shield, and my love, a sward.
I still am, I am being loved by my unconditionally loving son, my sister and my mother, all the rest had decided to discard me into oblivion, yet I still love them with all my might as I understand that they them selves suffer pain and are unable to cross the bridge of truth them selves. I am relentless in love, and know that within every human being dwells a beautiful soul, but too often their hearts are darkened and weighted with pain of pressure, bestowed upon them by their parents, church, friends and society at large.