I do not want acceptance for my X-dressing

[Lucy_Bella]

Although I have had a few occasions found myself with the over whelming need to go out I do not want to be caught or seen while dressed ..

I enjoy my masculinity and my male life so I protect it.. I do not want to be socially accepted as feminine..I do not X-dress because I have a desire to express being a woman I dress because I have an attraction to the clothing and femininity.. I am not in anyway Transgender but I can understand why Trans people want go out and why they want acceptance ..They want society to see them as their true selves and accept them for who they really are..

As a fetish dresser if I were to express my fetish publicly ,chances are I'be arrested or harassed with un wanted attention .. You can say "Lucy , don't dress so appealing and dress conservative" I would say why bother then? Dressing in that way" conservative " does nothing for me un like those who feel it is how they were born to dress..I would feel like a man in a dress..

I tip my hat to those of you who do go out and free yourselves to express your true gender..If I ever run across those that do get out I will show my full support..But I am not looking for acceptance in my dressing and for me it's a personal matter and it should stay in the closet..

[Beverley Sims]

Lucy,
Do what you think is right for you and live your dream, whatever it may be.

[Erica Marie]

Lucy we all have our own reasons for crossdressing. As I found out from a past thread I had, we all are considered transgender. Sorry I was frankly told there is no such thing as a cd who is not transgender.
Anyway I know exactly how you feel but from the other end. I want to be able to dress freely, I want to be accepted for who I am. I just struggle with how to go about it.
My advice is do what feels right for you. No one is telling you because you dress you have to leave the proverbial closet.

[laciewhite]

i think i'm with you on this lucy. i don't think i want acceptance...in many ways the 'naughtiness' (or as some straight people might say 'perversion') of being a guy dressing like a girl is part of the turn-on for me. being able to pass in public as a woman doesn't really concern me although the idea that another man might find me sexually appealing does give me a tingle of excitement but that's another story

[Desirae]

I agree. Transgender is just an umbrella term that encompasses all aspects of our "desires" whether we are CD, TV, TS, or somewhere in between. From your post, it sounds as if you are trying to convince yourself that your desires don't go any deeper than just occasional fetishistic crossdressing. That may very well be the case. No one wants to force you out of the closet. Well, maybe there are some who would. They're misguided to say the least. Do what feels right to you. Your feelings may change in the future. Just roll with it. I'm still in the closet, too, although I'm moving towards venturing out. I just want to see if it feels right for me. It may not. If it doesn't, then I'll go back. I can always go back to how things are now. It's just one of those things that I want to experience to see how it fits. Only you know, or will know, how far you need to go. How you feel now may be different from how you feel five years from now. To me, being so absolute in anything usually doesn't fair well in the long haul.

[Wildaboutheels]

I could be wrong but I am guessing that you don't NEED anyone to accept either? My guess is that you are similar to about 99% or higher of the MtF CDers on this planet. Clothes for them are simply ONE means to an end. The end being an O of course. The very SAME end that practically ALL CDers experience including just about everyone here. Maybe they had just a FEW Os wearing female clothing items ONLY when they were in their teens? I suppose that IS possible. It's an easy guess that it was more likely a few dozen, or a few hundred. A few thousand? Of course O's are addictive. ANYTHING that enables them or helps one to attain one, is going to imprint on the brain. Getting "dressed', being dressed/staying dressed is a way to drag out the whole O experience. Or obviously later on in life for the vast majority here, when their appetite wanes, it allows the association of that O high from their younger years. Of course our brains are going to retain that association no matter how long we live. Since guilt and shame are so prevalent here it's also likely that "moving on to full dressing" with fewer O's is simply a coping mechanism by the brain to justify putting on the wrong clothes. Most people [including the vast majority here] feel/want to claim that we Humans have full control of our lives. It just ain't so. NGC's Brain Games PROVES in episode after episode that our brains can and will concoct excuses and or justify things when we are fighting almost any type of internal struggle in an effort to protect us from ourselves.

The show also PROVES that JD public is NOT OUT to get CDers or anyone else. No Ifs, Ands or Buts about it. IF anyone here is "silly enough" to take issue with that statement, watch the show and you will whistle a different tune. I mention this only for the multitudes here who use that as an excuse. I am speaking of those that DO want out of their closets of course. I think for many, getting out "dressed" also is a coping mechanism by the brain.

I would hope that no one at this site is silly enough to think they could reliably predict the number of gay people on the planet. OR the # of MtF CDers. It's OBVIOUSLY an activity that the vast majority only do at home. Meaning CDers are likely to be much more "secretive" than Gay people. Being "born" either way has nothing to do with it. Based on the # of links that will come up if someone Googles CDing, it's an easy guess that at least 10% of the men on the planet do it. My own guess is probably 30% or higher at least on occasion. There could be tons of men who simply underdress on a regular basis, and or have tried pantyhose and liked the support/warmth that the right ones can provide not to mention the fact that they simply "feel good" at least to some. There are several companies that have been marketing/designing/making pantyhose specifically for men [mantyhose] for a # of years.

It's an easy guess that MOST folks who view these Forums [but don't bother to sign in] probably never stay "dressed" longer than 10 or 15 minutes. The clothes have "done their job" so off they come...

[celeste26]

There will come a time when the "O" is not enough. It waned eventually for lots of us. Until that time enjoy. You still look young and when I was young that was my own way of things too. But now I'm over 60 and I am not that way anymore. I have different needs now. We all eventually change.

[Katey888]

Lucy, I feel like I'm close to 100% with you on those sentiments. I've read quite a few threads now and am developing the impression that there seems to be a number of us on the forum who share this/ your perspective. I am unequivocal about my gender and all that means; I have absolutely no feelings towards men related to my CD activities; I continue to have completely heterosexual desires outside of the fantasies that are part of CDing and I don't believe that will change as I just adore women too much.
I did join this forum in the hope of gaining an insight into why CD does what it does for me - perhaps not just by reading a couple dozen threads in a week, I accept it may take longer or I may never know. In a way I was looking for a validation that what I have lived with for most of my life is not as unusual as mainstream media would have us understand - and I think I've found that already. I applaud your position and (perhaps controversially, but I'll bet I'm not the first...) propose we fragment the spectrum a little further - from TS/TG...CD to CD(f) - for fetish, obviously. I do believe a fetish can be an act rather than just an object and for me the act is the process of dressing. Strangely, I've often found women dressing more erotic than undressing, and that probably says a lot about what CD means for me. I do admit to a curious desire to dress 'out' - but I'm not sure I really want anyone to know. I've come close to exposure on a number of occasions and I suppose the riskiness is also a part of the rush - over time I have become more daring - driving in boots and heels while underdressing (I think that's the right term) and knowing that I have only a short distance to walk at the end of my journey that should not involve exposure. As perhaps is obvious, not every activity ends with an O - which remains one of my questions and uncertainties. I think my desire to 'pass' in the outside world is just an aspect of my competitive persona: I like to do things well, and I'd like to CD well enough that no-one can tell (but that probably is a fantasy - I stand like a man, walk like a man, couldn't falsetto my voice for anything..)
I'd like to say that broadening my perspective here, embedded as we are with genuine TG/TS individuals, has done nothing but increase my respect and empathy with and for them. The world is hard enough on folks that are truly driven to cross-genders rather than those of us who just CD. It's why my particular proclivity will also stay firmly shut away, especially from my SO.
LacieWhite and Desirae, you also seem to share some of these perspectives - how do you (and others) feel about a new category that separates TG issues with fetish ones?
Lucy_Bella - would it be fair to say that while you may not want acceptance, you may at least want a validation that what you feel is not unusual (at least not on this forum) - sorry: don't want to speak for you but I certainly draw comfort and validation from your OP - thank you!
Sorry to blather on... :o
Kateyx

[laciewhite]

i don't think i would bother CDing if i didn't want/need an 'O'. i started in my teens and now i'm in my mid-40s and nothing has changed apart from the amount of preparation and level of transformation. the process of turning myself into something that i think looks hot in the mirror is all part of the 'foreplay'. then i get down to business. from start to finish i probably stay dressed for maybe a couple of hours tops. but that's partly due to limits on my available free time. if i had a whole day (week? month???) to myself and i was in the mood i could probably stay dressed for much longer and really spoil myself.
i don't think i would ever dress and then sit around reading book or go shopping or any other, erm, 'normal' activity.
sorry if i'm dragging this thread away from the original point...just adding my perspective in relation to the last couple of comments...

katey i just read your comment and yes i def think there may be something approaching a gulf between genuine TGers and fetish CDers. even though i like to look all girly i know there's a very masculine sex drive pushing it along..

[JennyLynn]

Lucy,
I can so totally understand what you're saying. While it would be nice to have my wifes approval, it would somehow take away from the excitement in a way. Some here will say that's being deceptive and destructive in my marriage, but I say poo. I like the privacy of my dressing and yes, it is exciting to sometimes think about being "caught" and then accepted, but that would bring it's own set of problems...or maybe not, but it's not worth finding out . It would be wonderful to have sex while I am Jenny and that is what probably puts me into the fetish department. But, I still dress to enjoy the feminine side of me and the "sex" part is just icing on the cake, I guess. I do admit that I usually finish off a dressing time with a happy ending!
We all do what we do for so many reasons and it's okay for some to do it to be seen, and some to do it "not" to be seen. I do think I would only like to be seen with the eyes of someone who also dresses. I would be more comfortable feeling not so much judged, but admired.
I applaud your thread. I do believe it was from the heart and I can appreciate what you feel and believe.
JennyLynn

[Veronica27]

I think that this thread provides an excellent insight into what I and several others have been attempting to say over the years, but have continually been derided for saying; that is that crossdressing does not fall under the transgender "umbrella", despite the insistence of the powers that be on these forums. Yes, those who have assumed the mantle of leadership in this community have over the years convinced many of the umbrella nature of TG to the extent of having that definition added to some dictionaries. However, the way that the English language is being corrupted these days by things like technology, political correctness and pseudo intellectual and scientific jargon, there is no guarantee that any of these definitions will survive even a decade into the future. Some other trend in current thought will override the present one. If an umbrella term were to exist, it is much more logical that it would be crossdress rather than transgender, as that is what we all do regardless of motivations.

In the replies so far, much is made of the big "O" and for many that has played an important role, especially in the teenage years. However, for most (at least those who have the courage to post online) the urgency of that form of release diminishes and by middle age seldom crops up. (pardon the pun) The crossdressing desire usually continues, however and even increases for its own sake. The important point here is that nobody has the right to tell us that what we are doing is wrong, that we should be taking it to any level other than what suits us or that we do not understand ourselves or what we are.

I have never told a TG person that they are fooling themselves to think that they are TG. My arguments have always arisen because others insist on including me under their TG umbrella despite my claims to the contrary. A desire to go out is not by itself an indication of being TG. We all have those desires at times, regardless of where we sit on the CD/TG spectrum or closeted vs. open spectrum.

To Erica, you are what you are comfortable considering yourself to be, whether it be CD or TG. You are not necessarily TG because somebody's definition says you are, because it is not too long ago that the definition of TG was quite different and more specific. For all the others keep doing what is enjoyable to you and don't let anyone influence you against your own better judgement. I am 74 and have been crossdressing off and on to varying extents as circumstances permitted for over 60 years. I have suffered through all the feelings of guilt and shame and have come to realize that they were needless. The only factor that should enter into any of our crossdressing decisions is the comfort and wellbeing of those who are close to us. There is nothing noble about embarrassing a spouse or child for our own selfish pleasures.

Veronica

[Julie Gaum]

All these posts, I'm sure, are written with honesty and, as Jenny says, "from the heart". However, all these personal experiences when being used to make a conclusion is much like the old saw of a blind man determining what an elephant must look like after feeling a tusk, the trunk and so on. Many that wrote are going through one stage, albeit perhaps a long one, so have no conception --- understandably so, of how you will relate to CDing in a year or twenty years. Whenever that time comes you may decide to go out, may decide to reveal to SO, may decide that your motivations to dress are no longer promted on achieving an O, or, find that your present life style also fulfills logical, emotional, physical and societal needs and you'll stay the way you are --- and be very satisfied doing it. Point? This thread just touches on the myriad motivations involved so let's just crawl and not jump to conclusions. Oh, and by the way, the best guesstimates of CDs, including underdressers, who practice it from all the time to once every few months runs closer to 5%. That includes all gender persuasions.
Julie

[JennyLynn]

It continues to amaze me how we analyze every aspect of who we are, like we need to totally understand and put into a box who we are. I, for one, am ready to just accept who I am, why I do what I do and accept the consequences. We are not odd. We get defined by labels,which we should just ignore. We are not all the same. We all have different reasons for doing what we do. I do think the one thing we have in common is that we all have a feminine side. We feel a need to enjoy it. I tend to not read the postings that try to explain why we are who we are, why we do what we do and what we ultimately want. I'm different, you're different....but we all have just one thing in common... we love to express our feminine side. Simple as that.
Now, how we got here... well, that's where it gets interesting!
Jenny

[Lucy_Bella]

Two shades shy of 50 and being a dresser almost my whole life and I'm not so sure how many more phases I can go through ,I think I've reached my ropes end.. Dressing at a young age would have most people believe it's gender related ,but that's not always true and even in the womb the big "e" can happen, but the " o " hits in puberty...It's silly to think any child could understand why they dress opposite of their gender but I am a firm believer those with GID can and before puberty hits although most professionals do not ( I'm not a professional)..

But I can speak from life experiences just as every member here could and it's never been about gender for me and no, I'm not fooling myself..I've always had a sensation with the fit and feel of girls clothing and to enjoy it doesn't mean a "o" needs to happen but as puberty hit and then long since past, the "o" did take overbut sometimes by doing nothing but trying under garments on would be all it took ..Today the "o" isn't as important and does not drive my desire to dress, I take that back sometimes it is needed to end the experience or help end it ..So age does play a role sometimes in our phases..

I was outed by my ex wife to my children ( I've posted this before) and my children were very accepting and understanding however I told my ex I was TG ( before I really understood the meanings of the spectrum) I was wrong and that's how my children were told as well.. I've never explained the real reasons that drove me to dressing because I didn't know,I was that un informed.. So how do you tell people that you are a fetish dresser and is it something you want them to know and accept? On the other hand if GID was the issue I would have taken them up on their offer of acceptance in a heartbeat..That's is heart felt..

[Katy120]

. I tend to not read the postings that try to explain why we are who we are, why we do what we do and what we ultimately want.
Jenny

Jenny, I appreciate your posting. I must confess that I am just opposite with regard to trying to come to some semblance of understanding of the "why." I'm not particularly optimistic that I will discover the ultimate "why" to my cross dressing. Still the question intrigues me. I suppose that is why I tend to read the messages that probe this question and think about the responses afterward. I totally agree with your, "I'm different, you're different" statement and that is likely why the answer to the "why" is so elusive. Individuality precludes a definitive answer to "why." Thanks for sharing.

[NicoleScott]

I try to understand in my brain when one of us talks about the "woman inside" or "born in the wrong body". But that's as close as I can come to understanding it because I don't experience it. Likewise, if someone doesn't have a fetish they can't really know what it's like. Sometimes I chuckle and sometimes I cringe when I read posts regarding fetish dressing from those who claim they have none. But I keep reading, hoping to hear from Lucy Bella, Desirae, Lacie, Katey, and others who really know from experience what they are talking about. Those are the kind I can connect with.
I neither want acceptance nor don't want it. I have gone out, but I live in the closet, meaning other than my wife, nobody knows I crossdress. And why should they, as I am a fetish crossdresser and consider that to be a private matter? They don't need to know the details. As Lucy Bella said, dressing conservatively can be unfulfilling. So I would rather dress MY way and stay in than tone it down to go out. And I'm sure some others agree. The point I want to make is that I have read many posts complaining about the closeted CDers who complain about acceptance. There may be some, but many of us are happily closeted dressers who do no such complaining. So I'd like to see an end to painting all closeted dressers with that dadgum broad brush.

The thread started to get off track when it became about labels. That topic has been beaten to death and we're always back where we started.

Katey, after a few years on the forum, I have come to believe that feminine-identity dressers (gender-nonconformists) are not just at a different place on some phantom masculine>feminine spectrum, but that we are fundamentally very different. And pleasure dressers (for those who don't like the word "fetish") are at a disadvantage: we are limited in our discussions (no explicit sex talk) while feminine-identity dressers can freely discuss what makes them tick (since it's not sexual). But those are the rules. Also, the forum (this one) is about crossdressing (MtF) but overwhelmingly is about being feminine, living a feminine life, full-time dressing, transitioning etc. Ironically, for many, "it's not about the clothes".
Well, some of us understand that it IS about the clothes.

[Desirae]

I do not remember the National Geographic Channel's Brain Games having any shows or segments having to do with crossdressing. :confused: I don't see how anything on that show "PROVES that JD public is NOT OUT to get CDers or anyone else. No Ifs, Ands or Buts about it." That may be completely true (in the basic sense), but nothing on THAT show proves anything of the sort. There are indeed some people out there (John Doe Public) who are entirely about getting CDers. One case in point is that there have been three transgender MtFs murdered in Cleveland, Ohio in the last month. Just about every week GayUSA reports of a (MtF) murder or beating somewhere in these United States. Additionally, on this site, I have read where some think that everybody should be honest and be out of the closet, EVEN IF FORCED OUT. Actually, there is a thread going on right now about just this. I consider that, ALSO, "out to get CDs", albeit in a slightly different manner. You may not agree, but that's how I see it.

[Chickhe]

Many people don't need acceptance...they only need self acceptance to feel good. The reason you remain private is non-acceptance, however. If everyone accepted it, then you would be free to do what you want and it would impact nothing... it is okay to take steps to protect what you value in your life...that might include keeping parts of your experience private.

[Lucy_Bella]

And pleasure dressers (for those who don't like the word "fetish") .

I like that description :)

[ColetteB]

I can get behind this. But every once and a while, I feel like it would be nice to talk to some of my female friends about things like panties and leotards.

Besides, I'm far too furry and bearded to ever pass!

[Majella St Gerard]

Do what makes you happy and with what you are comfortable with. There is no right or wrong way to feel and think, whatever works for you is fine. It's nice to see how diverse we are here, Cd'ers come in many "styles"

[mykell]

after one such label post i had gotten so angry if i had hit "post quick reply" i would of been shown the door several times, i dont understand why in this niche we have here for ourselves i would be judged as if "john Q public" was on the forum. then i had my forest gump moment...

life is like a box of chocolate, you never know what your going to get....

there are other sections where i go now and compliment and support folks, it makes me feel good , it makes them feel good ...
because i came here for support, not judgement. i could stay out there for that....

[stephNE]

This is a very good thread. Good posts ladies.
We are all individuals, everyone has the right to be themselves. There is no reason we should conform to someone else's ideas of the norm.
....(of course, as long as there is no one getting hurt).

[brassieres]

I can get behind this. But every once and a while, I feel like it would be nice to talk to some of my female friends about things like panties and leotards.

Those are my sentiments as well, however I do not get the option to talk to other ladies about this at all.

[Jaylyn]

I really didn't want tO throw my 2cents in but by the time it took to read all the threads many thoughts had rushed thru my head and thought I had to get some of them said. I love the feel of a hot sexy mini skirt and a naughty looking pair of heels with hot black thigh highs. You can go ahead and call me a tramp. It probably would help me reach my "O" as y'all have called it. To me wearing my makeup extra heavy, eyes, lips, cheeks, etc makes me feel good. Call me what you want. I am also a man that is tough as they come. I used to reach the big "O" easily. At 64 I still have regular "Os". But here a catch maybe we are not looking at I still might continue wearing my makeup that day especially if I am hanging around the house or may even stay dressed in my sexy attire the rest of the day. I call my myself a CD and could care less what title any one else puts on me. As far as I'm concerned Titles can kiss my behind. I relate somewhat to many of you in your post in many ways. Especially in this thread. I really don't want to go out, but that doesn't mean I haven't thought what it would be like. It's tempting to drive down to San Antonio and meet with some gals I know on here and let them show me a fun time. Like some else said on here I enjoy talking to the gals on here that are in the same inclination in CDing as I am. I really deep down don't feel I'm gonna change as I have been doing it since birth. It started with my mom. It has increased after I retired at 52. I wear panty hose still in male mode to the deer stand. I love em. They can keep you warm. There is no "O" at deer camp just the thrill of the activity. I wear them fishing when it's cold. No "O" just the thrill of the activity. My point after an certain age is maybe sometimes we just enjoy the feel and femininity of playing the female for a little while. I discussed it with my wife about the thread where the wife said oh my I'm dressed like a man. She said honey " the pants or dress doesn't make us who we are" lots of thoughts there. I realized then to heck with titles I am man hear me roar. Lol, wether in pants or dress. Nothing wrong with wearing something that makes ya feel good. Underneath those clothes we still are who we are when we shower naked. I love Lucy's little saying after her post at the bottom. It applies to us all I would think.

[DanaInME]

Lucy-
Your right to "stay in the closet" is every bit as sacred and important to the community as my right to "politicize" my gender expression. Carry on and enjoy!
Dana

[JennyLynn]

I do so appreciate Mikells' response. I've almost been shown the door more than once. It's always a good rule of thumb to take a breath and consider the rules of the forum.
There is lots of support, and yes, sometimes judgment. Tough skin is a good trait.

[LadyInRed]

if it works for you and you enjoy it, congratulations on finding what works for you

[Helen Grandeis]

I try to understand in my brain when one of us talks about the "woman inside" or "born in the wrong body". But that's as close as I can come to understanding it because I don't experience it. Likewise, if someone doesn't have a fetish they can't really know what it's like. Sometimes I chuckle and sometimes I cringe when I read posts regarding fetish dressing from those who claim they have none. But I keep reading, hoping to hear from Lucy Bella, Desirae, Lacie, Katey, and others who really know from experience what they are talking about. Those are the kind I can connect with.
I neither want acceptance nor don't want it. I have gone out, but I live in the closet, meaning other than my wife, nobody knows I crossdress. And why should they, as I am a fetish crossdresser and consider that to be a private matter? They don't need to know the details. As Lucy Bella said, dressing conservatively can be unfulfilling. So I would rather dress MY way and stay in than tone it down to go out. And I'm sure some others agree. The point I want to make is that I have read many posts complaining about the closeted CDers who complain about acceptance. There may be some, but many of us are happily closeted dressers who do no such complaining. So I'd like to see an end to painting all closeted dressers with that dadgum broad brush.

The thread started to get off track when it became about labels. That topic has been beaten to death and we're always back where we started.

Katey, after a few years on the forum, I have come to believe that feminine-identity dressers (gender-nonconformists) are not just at a different place on some phantom masculine>feminine spectrum, but that we are fundamentally very different. And pleasure dressers (for those who don't like the word "fetish") are at a disadvantage: we are limited in our discussions (no explicit sex talk) while feminine-identity dressers can freely discuss what makes them tick (since it's not sexual). But those are the rules. Also, the forum (this one) is about crossdressing (MtF) but overwhelmingly is about being feminine, living a feminine life, full-time dressing, transitioning etc. Ironically, for many, "it's not about the clothes".
Well, some of us understand that it IS about the clothes.

Actually, its probably a lot more sexual than many people would admit even if for many it does not come to a sexual conclusion. We don't have our brains wired as we dress nor are we followed by telepaths to "objectively" assess what we are feeling.