The pitiable and hopeless fate of the late transitioner

[PaulaQ]

Any else here who's a late transitioner been told this? That your transition will most likely FAIL because:
- you are too old
- you will never pass well
- you'll always act like a man because you've always lived as one
- HRT isn't going to make you look feminine, you will fail without tens of thousands in surgery
- and even then - you won't look as good as a young transitioner, especially one who started well before 18.
- you won't solve a single problem for yourself

I've heard that on this forum. I've seen it in blogs. I seem to run into this idea a lot. I can't say that I agree much with it. But in any case, I've never had anyone who felt that way suggest much of an alternative to transition. I guess just suffer on? If it's "transition or die, just die?" I dunno - they are always kind of quiet on that part.

I was talking to a young trans-woman / activist about this, and while she didn't agree with it, she did opine that "It took real balls to transition at my age." She didn't say why that was, but I presume she didn't think I was going to have an especially spectacular outcome in my own transition. (Couldn't really tell why she said it though. She made a lot of remarks about my age though. Dang.)

So, I dunno, anyone else encounter this? If anyone agrees "yeah, y'all are pretty much screwed", do you have any suggested alternatives?

I personally believe there's always hope. Maybe I'm just naïve though.

[Angela Campbell]

Don't buy into any of that stuff. I have been told all of that too and it just isn't true. Hrt is working on me at 55, I do naturally act as a woman and am learning how to let go of my male upbringing, I seem to pass well enough for the public, and I will be successful.

You want to pass? Ok, it is doable. It just depends on how much time, effort, and money you are willing to put into it. Then again be realistic. A 55 year old will not likely look like a 20 year old. Wishing and bitching isn't going to make anything happen. Many of those who say it cannot happen have done little to nothing and guess what they got out of that?

Now I will pay a bundle in surgeries, I will admit that, but transition is not cheap. You get out of it what you put into it. My attitude is....go ahead tell me I will fail, but check back with me in two years. (whatcha gonna say then? Gonna tell me I was lucky?)

[Rianna Humble]

The regular posters in the Transsexual Forums don't say that someone is too old to transition - a lot of the questioners ask whether they are too old and some of the visitors might offer that opinion from a position of ignorance.

How well you "pass" (whatever that means) is partly down to your attitude and partly down to your definition of the term. I will never fool anyone that I grew up in my correct gender, but for me so long as I am accepted and/or treated as a woman of my age has a right to expect then I can be happy with that.

Accusations that you will always be/act like a man come occasionally from CDs who only come here to stir up trouble - they do not usually last long.

HRT won't make me "look feminine" they will help to bring my body and my endocrine system into line with my gender.

Any older woman who deludes herself that a facelift or a boob job will make her look like an 18 year old is destined for disappointment.

Transition will not solve your other problems, it will solve what it is intended to address - the Gender Dysphoria.

I have also seen a lot of "do or die" misrepresentation of what the experienced members on this forum usually say and I have even been falsely accused of saying that myself.

Hold onto the hope, try to avoid the bitterness

[Marleena]

There are TS women that can't do anything because of health issues.

I've heard of (TS) women having successful transitions in their 70's so it can be done. Do what's right for you because only you live your life..

[Rachel Smith]

I transitioned at 58 started at 57 never once did one person tell me I would fail. I work two part-time jobs one delivering mail and the other working at Lowe's as an outside vendor. Everyone that has said anything to me said basically the same thing, "about time". My only regret is not doing it before male balding. I am proof it can be done. I have had no surgery and only one electro session due to lack of funds. Yes I have to shave twice a day, once in the AM for work and once in the PM if we are going out. That is a small price to pay. HRT is effecting my breasts nicely albeit s-l-o-w-l-y. They most likely will never get past Tanner Stage 1 or 2 but that's OK too. It all depends on your attitude and how much you want to put into it daily. I would like to do it all but financially that is not possible so some trade-offs were made.

My point is you CAN do it if you really want too so just tell the nay-sayers f***off it's my life and do what makes YOU feel is right in your life.

Rachel

[Kaitlyn Michele]

it's baloney... a lot of what gets said is people's fear...they are honestly concerned for us (for all the wrong reasons)

The only alternative to transition is to just deal with the terrible gender feelings...good luck with that and people in general will just have to take it at face value

I love my sister..and .she talked this crap to me...

one of her biggest lines was.."K---- you look nothing like a woman"....
today, when we are together people meeting us say "omg, you two look like twins"

sucks for her

[emma5410]

I am 55. I seem to pass okay. Most people ignore me and I have never been harassed or heard a comment. I have no problem going about my daily life and when I talk to strangers they seem to respond to me as if they were talking to a woman.
There are advantages in transitioning later. There is that thing about women becoming invisible at a certain age. I am probably just seen as an unattractive middle aged woman. So it can be done.

[Michelle.M]

The regular posters in the Transsexual Forums don't say that someone is too old to transition - a lot of the questioners ask whether they are too old and some of the visitors might offer that opinion from a position of ignorance.

Good point! I think some newbs are looking for encouragement because they have doubts about their ability to undergo transition, and probably because they’ve either been told they’re too old or they just believe it for some other reason.


it's baloney... a lot of what gets said is people's fear...

A very astute observation. I have noticed that people’s reactions to us can sometimes be nothing more than fear that is expressed in some hurtful ways that only mask their own insecurities.


one of her biggest lines was.."K---- you look nothing like a woman".... today, when we are together people meeting us say "omg, you two look like twins"people meeting us say "omg, you two look like twins"

sucks for her

And that’s the best feeling ever! The best thing in life is to be the best you that you can be, and when the naysayers see that they have to reconcile those doubts and negativity they have.

[mary something]

men and women are the most physically (morphologically) different in their 30's, they've had 20 years of powerful body shaping hormones working on their bodies at high concentrations that will lessen as they age. the further before or after this period the easier it is to blend in as the other sex physically. It is easier for the typical 50 something year old man to pass physically as a woman of the same age group than it is for a 30 year old man to pass physically as a woman of the same age group.

part of that is social too and not just physical. Young women get lots of male attention. Women past the age of 50 do not as much in public. Keep that in account Paula when thinking about what the young lady told you. She can only speak for HER experiences.


one of her biggest lines was.."K---- you look nothing like a woman"....


Someone who has known you entire life as a male, has built part of her identity around the fact that you are male (you are her brother, she is your sister), and is close to you emotionally will have the hardest time seeing reality in this situation.



- you'll always act like a man because you've always lived as one


not true. It's more accurate to say that someone will always act in a manner indicative of how they perceive the world and themselves. There are women with personalities much more masculine than the average guy who still act like women. Why is this? What are they doing different?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I get a lot of attention.

maybe you could also speak more just to your experiences

[mary something]

I was speaking in generalities, and if so then why aren't more women over the age of 40 used in advertising? What is the average age of a woman in a beer commercial? Do you think you get more attention than your sister did when she was 22 and dressed for it?

I'm not saying someone can't be attractive and hot at whatever age, simply making the point that an attractive woman in her 20's gets more male attention than an attractive woman in her 50's. That is something that everyone who is considering transition should be aware of.

Edit- for the record I do everything in my power to AVOID male attention, please take that into consideration when reading my comments

[I Am Paula]

I started active transition at fifty five. Granted, I was never hairy, or particularly masculine looking. I'm also no Charlize Theron.
-Will I/do I pass? Everybody treats me like a lady, uses the proper pronouns, and in general just accepts the walks like a duck theory. It may well be that I only ever deal with really polite people. I hope not, but I'll take it.
-Lots of people have asked how I learned to act like a lady. That was easy, I just stopped acting like a man. I've sat with my leg crossed, and sat to pee all my life, so something was ready in the wings.
-HRT is slowly doing it's thing. Women who know me see the changes. I doubt it will make me beautiful, but I'll be beautiful to me and those I care about. I'm having some work done next summer, maybe ten thousand worth, but I'm doing it for me. No, I won't look as good as an eighteen year old transitioner. Most 55 year old GG's don't look as good as eighteen year olds. My goal is not to be the most beautiful woman in the world, but to be the best trans woman I can be. I will gladly live with the stigma (if there is one) of the guy who changed sex for the rest of my life, if they continue to treat me as the lady I have become.
-I have already knocked a lot of my problems off my list. Transition is doing wonders for body, and soul. It may not fix everything, but how many cis people do you know who have no issues what so ever?

Pretty much screwed at fifty five? After being released from many years of suffering from GD, my life is just beginning. I plan to live out what time I have left on this earth enjoying every moment of my newfound freedom.

My boobs ache, but just don't seem to want to grow, I still have some stubble, I'm a size 12 pant and size 16 top, I have no butt or hips, my I.D. is a mishmash of M's and F's, and no one makes women's gloves that fit me. I'm still light years ahead of where I was a year ago.

[Jorja]

It is never too late! I know several older women (70 - 80 year olds one even at 93) that positivly love their life now that they have transitioned. Yes, some do have regret that they didn't or couldn't do it sooner. It is all in your mind, body, and soul. Life is what you make it. If you want to sit on the couch and cry about how you don't have a life, then that is your fault. Get out there and have fun being you.

[rachael.davis]

If you realize that you're 50, miserable, need to transition, and it's going to take five years to start, put togeather the funds, develop a new life, etc... then you'll be a 55 year old transgendered woman who has been through a rough five years.
If you realize that you're 50, miserable, need to transition and don't start in five years you'll be 55, miserable......

NOT saying it's easy

[LeaP]

I've heard both sides. That I will never pass, and that I look great. That HRT won't matter, but that my features have changed and softened. That my breasts won't grow, and I'm working on B+. That I'm too old for this, countered by numerous accounts (in this case by my therapist of her clients) of transitioners into their 70s. That my mannerisms and thinking is all-male, versus the lifelong and ongoing comments varying from "you're different from other guys" to "are you sure you're not gay." (sigh)

Then the mistaken assumptions of motive. "You think being a woman is easier/better/will make you happy/solve your problems...". To which my reply is that I never thought any of those things.

I have seen STUNNING transformations. And I don't necessarily mean beautiful, though some have been. That includes people that you wouldn't think would pass in their wildest dreams and who start with the coarsest of male features. Those took a lot of money, but show what's possible.

Anyone blessed with any natural advantages is better off, of course, though it doesn't seem to change how a lot of us see ourselves. I've been told I have some. It doesn't change my desire for some FFS procedures or smooth over my concerns.

Some people are their own worst enemies. I know that the longer you live as a male, the more male behaviors become ingrained, but that doesn't excuse being blind to them. Walk, sit, sprawl, stand, talk, and take up space like a man and you'll be clocked instantly. Recent public examples come to mind: a trans woman ... well-dressed and pretty, too ... who walked - lumbered, really, like a thug, head down and jutting forward, shoulders hunched, bag held like a football, arms a-swingin', and upper body moving side-to-side. I clocked her instantly from behind from a hundred feet away, only seeing her potential when I subsequently saw her close up.

But ya, I'm screwed. LOL!!!

[arbon]

Lots of people never thought I would make it, that I would be able to have an okay life if I did it. especially where I live - oh you'll never make it here! My mom was the worst, who I swear would have dealt better if I had really died. She said everything she could think of to stop me.

Isn't it fun to prove them all wrong?

[Michelle.M]

It is never too late! I know several older women (70 - 80 year olds one even at 93) that positivly love their life now that they have transitioned.

That's the essence of a successful transition, in my opinion. And that joy of life and the self confidence that comes with it goes a long way towards allowing people to see you as you wish to be seen.

Ain't no way I'd EVER go back to my old life!

[Jorja]

It is not what is on your outside, it is what is in your mind body and soul that make you successful, male or female.

[JayeB]

Jorja's words are so true. We are all different as individuals, and sanity is to be be true to oneself. Whatever your choice, god bless.

[DeeDee1974]

Just the mental change I have experienced is justification enough for me that I have done the right thing. Fairly early in my transition (probably around the six month mark), I remember my wife (now ex) turning to me with a big smile on her face, saying you have seem so much happier, and giving me a big hug. That was all I needed to move forward and know I was going in the right direction.

[Shapeshiffter]

well, I'm 60 and am happier than I have ever been. Do I pass? Sometimes. Do I wish I had done sooner? Of course. Any regrets having transistioned? None/.

[Barbara Ella]

As I read through the responses, I had thoughts that were echoed. The success you achieve if almost entirely a function of what is in your head, your perceived needs and deficiencies, and your expectations of what your goal will be. As we get older, our expectations must be adjusted. If one can adjust expectations to situation, that is better, but often can lead to worries when it cannot be realized. It is heartening to read of the older girls who have transitioned, at very advanced ages. Fortunately, the average 67 year old woman is relatively attainable physically. Again, it is the mental aspect that controls the perceived success.

Barbara

[Jorja]

It starts with fully accepting yourself and loving yourself because of it. If you do not love yourself first, who can? Yes there are going to be struggles along the way but even if you were not transsexual and just a normal every day guy, there would be struggles of one sort or another.

[Angela Campbell]

Look, decide what result you want. Figure out how to get it. Then do so. Don't think it will be quick. Don't think everything you try will work. Be realistic. Don't give up and don't listen to anyone who tells you that it cannot be done.

[Kimberly Kael]

It's the rare transsexual who hasn't been told at one point that there's no way it's going to work out. That's the whole reason transition is difficult in the first place; if there wasn't strong social resistance we wouldn't go through so much of a struggle to accept ourselves and overcome the pressure to conform to traditional expectations. The big question is whether your need and support are strong enough to push on through.

[PaulaQ]

I wonder how many other serious medical conditions prompt random people to tell the person suffering from the condition "meh - treatment for you will probably fail! Sucks to be you!"

As for me - I like to prove people wrong.

[Amanda M]

Paula - check this out see what you think.

http://auntyorthodox.tumblr.com/post/52554949297/does-age-of-gender-transition-actually-matter

Remember, whether you believe you can, or believe you can't - you're right!

[PaulaQ]

Thanks for the link, I've often said that in many very real respects, early transitioners generally have a much harder time of it. I've known many, and the hurdles described in the article are right on the money.

BTW, I definitely believe I can do this - but I've heard this attitude a lot. So yeah, I'll never perfectly pass. But I also never got screwed over by my employer, or forced into sex work. I know girls who've faced both of these issues. It is not difficult to wind up a dirt poor older transwoman who transitioned young.

[Angela Campbell]

It is not difficult to end up a poor and lonely older cis person either....just sayin...

[BOBBI G.]

At 70 years old, I have no delusions of grandeur. My peace comes with just being able to attempt. Should there be no significant changes, that is OK. I know who I am and that is of most importance. Any modifications that may appear, I will be thankful for.

Hoping for the best,

Bobbi

[Ann Louise]

Dang, I step away for a few days and miss good threads! I'm 60 now, and after several months of HRT was "passing" (blech, what a term) as a Transsexual Woman, and generally accorded due respect by the people I respect for having the courage of my conviction to finally live my genuine life. I'm now 45 days post-FFS surgery, and I do not feel self-conscious whatsoever in public or private settings, and am accorded all the smiles, respect, and courtesies of the 60-year old woman that I am. What do people "really think?" I could not care less. I am the happiest I have ever been in my life, and my life gets better every day.

Happy Winter Solstice Everyone!

)0( Ann )0(

[Nigella]

Only you can decide if your transition is successful or not. The expectations you place upon whatever you do, is how YOU define a successful transition.

"I will never pass" is one of the most common phrases you will hear, but if you are comfortable in how you live your life, you have passed.

I honestly don't give a monkey's if I am "clocked", I'm happy and that's all that matters. :) Live your life for yourself not others.

[TeresaL]

A wise person told me to look on the inside for answers to your gender questions. Being your true self does not come from outside. Outside influences and opinions can be detrimental to your health. Especially if they impede your journey to be your true self.

I also get the "you look like a man" from my relatives. Well, to them I do. But I am female on the inside. It doesn't line up, it's incongruent, and it sounds foolish to most non-affected persons. Yet it is true, and I wish they could see me as I see myself. But they cannot.

[Eryn]

We are, in many ways, gender scientists. I am reminded of Clarke's First Law:

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

I think that this applies quite well to the current discussion. If someone is motivated to transition and is doing so with reasonable expectations they are likely to be successful. Age has little to do with this as long as one does not expect transition to be a fountain of youth.

[PaulaQ]

While I don't feel hopeless starting this at age 50, although the 18 yo trans woman who transitioned at 16 who told me "it takes real balls to do this at your age" kind of freaked me out a little. (She thought I was pretty though.)

I will say that right now, my biggest problem is that even though I know my presentation continues to improve, I am actually having a much harder time seeing the girl in the mirror than I used to. I know this is GD, but I'm having a hard time with it. I get plenty of positive feedback, really. I made a much younger (and better looking, in my opinion) girl who I hadn't seen in several months very jealous when she saw me this week. She cried about it - I had to sit with her and calm her down. It took a while.

The course of my GD seems to be marching on and progressing. This frightens me. I think it's the biggest threat to my transition - that there will simply never be a "good enough" for me. All I really want is "good enough." I just want to be able to look in a mirror, smile, and mean it. Some days, I manage this, lots of days, I do not, at least not lately.

But then I've always felt I was the biggest risk, not the outside world, nor how it treats me.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The thing you are heading towards Paula is that there will be milestones or markers that you will only really see when you look backwards...

in other threads the people that go through transition say the same thing which can be paraphrased as."i had to do it"... and trust me, if for you its about getting rid of the gender dysphoria feelings, they will go away...

it won't be about seeing her...try to consider that it will be about just seeing "you"...somedays your appearance will register as more or less feminine...but you will experience the breathtaking moment of simply looking at yourself AND being able to experience it as looking at yourself..(I think that makes sense)

feeling down about how you look or scared of moments during your day because you are trans is part of the package... steps taken to improve quality of transitioned life will help with that..
just today somebody commented on my voice and it caused me to pause and I couldn't get it out of my head for a bit...but in the end, its just something that happened today...its not gender dysphoria...

its not that you are the biggest risk...its that you will end up doing what it takes to be yourself...wherever that takes you is your place...its the same at 20 40 and 60...

and btw...I got told the "takes balls" story more than once..hehe...

[Kathryn Martin]

I know you don't place a lot of stock in what I have to say to you Paula. One of the themes running through your posts is that you seem to see yourself as a victim both of circumstance and the perception of the impossibility of what you seem to need to do. I transitioned at age 56, a transition which has included everything. I have never experienced myself as a victim in all of this and have focused on everything that was positive about both my life and my path to become whole. I don't think it takes any more fortitude at age 18 or at age 50 to transition. The reason why people perceive it that way is that they ask questions like "why now?" and "are you aware of the risks of what you could lose?". These questions had lost every reality, the doubts etc. were just sock puppets of the reality of others than my own reality. And when I finally took the first steps, I said to myself I have bloody well earned some accommodation from my social environment.

You know that we don't check our brains at the door to womanhood, that our individual competence is not diminished and when, as in my case, we walk into that courtroom 2 days after professionally and socially having transitioned from him to her, our performance at our job is as good and in most cases better than ever before. Having grown to be fifty years old means that you have so much to rely on to give you confidence in your abilities to do your job, manage your life and cope with the stresses of your every day life. If you were a solitary person before you will be that after transition and if you were a outgoing extrovert that will not have changed.

From your last comment I feel that you have come full circle and made yourself the sock puppet of your perceptions on how others might react. Stop now! It is a fruitless dead end street to nothing and misery. Rely on yourself and take one step after the other. Stop being ruled by your own fears. It is refreshingly beautiful out there if you do.

[Nicole Erin]

Of course on this forum they will say you will fail at transition because you are too old, too poor, too whatever.
There are a lot of insecure trannies out there who will fight tooth and nail to project their own insecurities onto other TS.
Such is life. We ALL fall short somehow. That is why the beauty, diet, plastic surgery, and other industry are such big business. There will always be someone who has it better.

Ok so let us look at the reality -
Yeah a Ts should start way young but then there is the problem of - a kid does not own his/her life. How many boys wanting to be girls have supportive parents? No, most of them get the shit beat out of them. You hear only the good news on TV about people like Kim Petras or Miss Canada who have it all.

Older Ts don;t stand much chance of passing. So then, one has to decide - do they want to allow their lack of passability to prohibit them from living a life? I do not pass well, never will, but I still have friends, a job, a life, and sometimes even get to date people. Yes, in the past few months I have had dates with a couple women, even layed with one of them. I sometimes date this guy who takes me to nice restaurants and buys me lingerie and other "adult" stuff.

Problems - It is very true that transition will not solve any problems EXCEPT the one of wanting to live as a woman. Life really doesn't change much after transition. Life is what YOU make it. YOU have to change your life. Merely switching genders does nothing but make you look different on the outside.

I want it all - Well hell yeah a lot of us are jealous of the TS who transitioned real early, look perfect, etc.
If only we could all look that good. Meanwhile, the "perfectly passable" TS struggle with the fact that they are STILL TS and genetically males. If people would focus on what they DO have and be happy instead of what they CANNOT have and be upset over it, maybe they can learn to live.

I do not pass well, but I love what I see in the mirror. I am my best lover. I do not have a lot of money for much of anything, but I still like to have fun with friends or alone.
I will be a frog's taint before i will allow my "poor transition" to stop me from living as i want.

When are YOU going to learn how to enjoy life? Start today! This minute!

[mary something]

The course of my GD seems to be marching on and progressing. This frightens me. I think it's the biggest threat to my transition - that there will simply never be a "good enough" for me. All I really want is "good enough." I just want to be able to look in a mirror, smile, and mean it. Some days, I manage this, lots of days, I do not, at least not lately.


It's easy to fall into the trap of never being good enough. The trap of yearning desperately to be at point B. The place where all the procedures are done, where all this is behind us. It's easy to feel stuck at point A where we are never good enough, we aren't who or what we want to be. We look in the mirror and we want props to approximate what that point B looks like to us and it makes us feel better.

The dysphoria that you feel is intensified by how far you feel point B is from where you are right now, point A.

The thing is, you will NEVER feel that you are at point B. Your present consciousness will ALWAYS feel like point A. That is why the longer we do this, at least for me, the less I see a girl OR a guy in the picture, or the mirror. I only see me.

When you go from male to female you lose something that many guys have that makes them feel that their point A is a nice thing. And that is the belief that being a male is better than being a female. It's not just a personal belief it is reflected throughout our entire society and most of the individuals in it. It is everywhere.

It is the belief that male and female are opposite sexes. They aren't, to say that means that if men are strong then women are weak. If men are stoic with their emotions then women are hysterical and needy. There are many, many more.

Learning to look in the mirror and see ourselves and feel that we are good enough has NOTHING to do with transition. As you become more aware of your femininity however you'll have to learn how to do it in other ways than men are taught to by society. Other women will help you learn how to do this.

No matter what you look like you will always only see "you" in the mirror. You will always wish that things were better, different, more of this, less of that, etc. Don't let that stop you from appreciating that you are deserving of what you need though.

Happiness is the feeling that you can handle the problems you face. When you feel that way you will be able to look in the mirror and smile even if you wish you were closer to point B than the Point A that you are at now.

It's not about believing that you are a woman or not. It's about believing in yourself. Everyone who contributes to your threads or reaches out to you believes in you or else they wouldn't do so.

Expect it to feel horrible and hopeless at times. Expect to feel jubilant and triumphant at times. These are all just feelings and emotions. Feelings are transitory and change quickly, these feelings are only as real as we allow them to be by believing them. Feelings always change though, so don't allow feelings or emotions to change YOU.

You've accomplished a LOT. You got this! Don't allow feelings or emotions to slow you down now. There is nothing pitiable or hopeless unless you allow those universal feelings that ALL of us feel sometimes to make you that way.

You've always been "good enough". Now go be YOU.
Edit- had to step away for a sec.

You want to be able to look in the mirror and smile? While looking in the mirror tell youself that you are closer right now, at this very second to what you want to accomplish than you have ever been before in your entire life and the reason why is because of YOU. Your choices, your actions, your ability to tolerate change and pain. You are closer now than EVER.

[GiannaD]

Very Interesting thread...at 49, my only wish is that I started back in my 20's. That having been said, I love dressing as a woman and mentally work daily at presenting myself as a fem rather than a guy.

[TeresaL]

Don't we all Gianna. That would have been 1970 for me. In that day, there were few resources and fewer folks brave enough to admit to being TG. It's better today though, and being twenty and TG today could result in more satisfaction. Well never know.

[celeste26]

The biggest benefit I can see by transitioning late is that if I did it far younger in my teens, i would probably be caught up in the "great women's beauty culture race". There comes a time though when a lady just doesn't need to compete in that race any more, where some semblance of good looks means no critical stares. When fitting a size 0 loses all chance of making it anymore. Just being a grand parent makes life worthwhile and offers many excuses.

[ameliabee]

Depends on your goals.

I can count on my hands the number of late transitioners I know of who honestly came out well, in that they pass well and are indisputably female. I'm actually a bit envious of one and can only hope to be in the same ballpark as her when I get to be middle aged - that took a lot of surgery though.

If you don't care about passing and are okay with telling the world to f**k off, then by all means, transition, do what you feel like doing. You will make a hell of a lot of people uncomfortable though - the bitterness, jealousy, and deeply ingrained male socialization is why I can't have much of anything to do with trans people in meatspace.

Yeah, I transitioned younger. As of right now, I'm a stealth high-end escort and applying to grad schools again after having failed out once. I also have an eating disorder and am very much caught in the beauty standards rat race. I was nearly involuntarily committed because of the stress and think of suicide every month. Trust me, you don't want my world or a world like mine - an interesting life is a terrible curse, much better to have a peaceful calm existence.

[PaulaQ]

I can count on my hands the number of late transitioners I know of who honestly came out well, in that they pass well and are indisputably female. I'm actually a bit envious of one and can only hope to be in the same ballpark as her when I get to be middle aged - that took a lot of surgery though.

I know, I'll take a lot of surgery, and I am still skeptical about how well I'll turn out. I think being stealth is out of the question for me, and that's OK, I didn't spend 50 years in the closet to run right back into another one. My main hope is to wind up not striking people as "oh, you're one of those..." when they deal with me. (I understand why someone would want to be stealth though - being able to lead a semblance of a normal life is basically impossible unless you are stealth.)


If you don't care about passing and are okay with telling the world to f**k off, then by all means, transition, do what you feel like doing. You will make a hell of a lot of people uncomfortable though - the bitterness, jealousy, and deeply ingrained male socialization is why I can't have much of anything to do with trans people in meatspace.

Well, I know I will make people uncomfortable. All I can really hope for is to get to a point where I'm comfortable with myself. I will say that I am NOT going to be bitter or jealous about younger, prettier trans women than me. I have seen this plenty of times in older women myself. I am just not that type of person. When I see someone younger than me, leading a normal seeming life, I may be sad that I didn't get that, but mostly I'm overjoyed for them - "Thank God, there's someone who got treatment in time and is living the life they should." I want life to be better for younger people than it was for me. Nobody should go through what I went through.

I know that many younger transitioners are forced into sex work. I personally detest that it comes down to this. I also recognize that it is reality. I know that while younger transitioners will look better, and potentially lead more normal lives than mine, the latter isn't guaranteed, and I know that they face many challenges that I'll never face because I am old and will retain a bunch of male privilege. If nothing else, I've had decades of earning power that younger trans women simply don't get to have. I know many young transitioners who are dirt poor, subject to pretty cruel whims from their employers, and who face substantially worse threats of violence than I do. (I know trans women who've been raped, placed in to dangerous situations by their employers to "deal with the problem", all manner of horrible, cruel, and shocking things.)

So "envy" isn't the right term. You know, I'm definitely sad I never got to be a young bride, and lead the sort of heteronormative life I grew up expecting, but as the right gender. But some things just are what they are. I can still have a great life post transition, and I plan on having a remarkable one. And the truth is, even had I transitioned young, it's no guarantee that I'd have had a "normal" life. You don't. Our lot is a cruel one. The world mostly doesn't give a shit about us, and parts of it actively hate us. That's just how it is.

I hope you get into grad school hon, and settle down and have the life you want and deserve.

[Kimberly Kael]

I can count on my hands the number of late transitioners I know of who honestly came out well, in that they pass well and are indisputably female.

Thankfully this isn't as critical as it used to be. Sure, there was a time when not passing meant you were a complete social pariah and you were risking your life by engaging in meaningful relationships with other people. While that might still be true in some places, there are many areas you can move to where you can lead a productive life regardless of whether you pass perfectly.

I have respect and acceptance from everyone that matters in my life. A career. A loving wife. I'm also in great shape financially. By what measure is that not "coming out well?"


If you don't care about passing and are okay with telling the world to f**k off...

There's a lot of middle ground you conveniently ignore, and a lot of transwomen inhabit this middle ground. Helen Boyd's wife, Jenny Boylan, and Wendy Carlos spring to mind as reasonably well known examples but there are plenty more of us who don't necessarily draw as much media attention because we're quietly and happily living our lives. Your assertion to the contrary doesn't help anyone here who is looking for support and hope. Sure, there are lots of very good reasons not to transition and plenty of folks who've made a hash of it – but it's not a "pitiable and hopeless fate" as the thread's title might suggest.

[DebbieL]

Any else here who's a late transitioner been told this? That your transition will most likely FAIL because:
There are LOTS of people who will try to talk you out of transition. Even a good gender therapist will try to get you to confront the realities of transition.


- you are too old
Yes, when I was 30


- you will never pass well
Yes, when I was 15


- you'll always act like a man because you've always lived as one
Yes, when I was 10


- HRT isn't going to make you look feminine, you will fail without tens of thousands in surgery
Yes, when I was 21.


- and even then - you won't look as good as a young transitioner, especially one who started well before 18.
Yes, when I was 30


- you won't solve a single problem for yourself
Yes, when I was 8 YEARS OLD!

Anyone dealing with Gender Disphoria has to get the client to confront the realities of what the transition CAN provide, what it WILL NOT provide, and the limits on it's ability to solve "Life Problems".

If someone is suffering clinical depression, and they transition, they will just be a woman who suffers from clinical depression. If you have a negative attitude, SRS or HRT won't change that.

Many of us want to have the doctor wave a magic wand, turn us into a beautiful sexy woman, and when he does this we will live happily ever after.

That's the fantasy has many of us have around transition. We don't see ourselves as the older overweight woman with the less than gorgeous figure, and more bad hair days than good.
Some of us have receding hairlines and still have the fantasy that we can look like a beautiful without a wig.

There are reasons why we do the "Real Life Experience" exercise, and why we are pushed by our therapists to expand our comfort zone, expanding from safe groups or clubs to more intimate and personal surroundings, eventually living as women with friends, families, children, employers, coworkers, and even churches. There are many times when we have had to let go of people who couldn't accept us for who we really were. They wanted us to continue to maintain the pretense. Sometimes we have to let go, and the therapist wants to see how we handle letting go as well as helping us to process any pain associated with letting go.

We also have to confront the realities of being appropriate to our situation, age, and weight. We might love the sexy things in the Juniors department, and there might have been a time when we would have wanted to wear that type of thing, and would have looked good in it. When we transition later in life, we often have to confront not only growing old, but being unable to experience life as a young and beautiful woman. We have to lean to accept pants, looser blouses that aren't low cut, and shoes that are comfortable and practical. We may have a few rare occasions where we can wear the knee-length skirts, 3 inch heels, and sexy tops, but even with hormones, there will be limits on how young we can look and how much our bodies will take.

I've discussed transition several times with therapists and medical professionals and nearly ALL of them have nearly ALWAYS tried to talk me out of it. They would tell me how painful it would be, how much it would cost, how disappointing the results might be. They tried to put the emphasis on loss of sex drive, lack of ability to perform sexually, and loss of strength.

In some cases, I've even been told "We can't talk about that, don't even try".

Ironically, they realized and knew that I was severely struggling with attempting to live life as a male, but they didn't really understand the degree of the struggle..

The good news was that I was willing to do a LOT of research on my own. I was also willing to take coaching and support from my wife who told me to "stop dressing like a ****". Now, even without a wig and make-up, I pass as an older woman. When I wear the wig (she helped me pick out), and make-up (which she would occasionally check and correct), and clothes (more conservative and older), I still look like an attractive woman in my late thirties to mid 40s, even though I'm almost 58 years old. Many people who know me as Debbie are shocked when I hint at my real age. I only smoked lightly for 10 years, quit drinking at 21, and avoided sunlight (so I could do laser).

When I started HRT, I had already read books about transition, both fiction and non-fiction, and was prepared for the change in how I would experience sexual arousal, plateau, orgasm, and resolution. Personally, I LOVE the new way I'm experiencing it, but I could understand how many men would be very upset about loss of ability to have erections, loss of ability to ejaculate, and inability to engage in sexual intercourse with a woman. Fortunately, I knew I didn't have much to offer "Down there" and had learned to please partners without it. I won't go into any further detail because my posts have too often been deleted by moderators if they get too graphic. It's enough to say that things are very different but can still be quite nice, even better.

Transition can be a series of horrible losses that can drive you into deep episodes of situational depression (NOT Clinical) as you discover that you have to make changes and some of these changes include letting go of people, places, and things you have known and loved. In my own path, I first came out when I was 25, and in my 30+ years of transition (don't recommend dragging it out that long), I have had to let go of a wife, two children, 5 female lovers, one that lasted 15 years, some male friends, 3 really good jobs, and 3 churches I loved.

For me the point of no return came when I become almost obsessed with suicide, not because I wanted to end my life, but because I wanted to reincarnate into a girl's body, or go to heaven as a girl. The plans and activities for "accidents" as well as real actions that would produce the results - just made me realize that it was time to sh*t or get off the pot. If I was getting that obsessed with ending it, then I might as well at least try taking the risks and letting go of what there was to complete transition at least to t-girl stage.

I was actually quite astonished at how the world shifted for me once I made it clear that I would be transitioning, with or without them. My wife was very supportive, and asked me not to do the SRS, because she didn't want the legal status of our marriage threatened. My daughter can't wait for "Grandma Debbie" to take my grandaughter shopping, and my son sends me support messages and likes Debbie's posts on Facebook. My step-daughter introduced me to her boyfriend, and when I told my wife that I was not going to wear a "Pup Tent" to thanksgiving, and would celebrate with AA or NA if the family couldn't accept me, my father-in-law decided it was OK, and the whole family fell in love with Debbie. At "Family Christmas", Debbie got all the presents. At one point my sister-in-law said "the kids were worried because we only got presents for Debbie and didn't get any for Rex, is that OK?" I started crying and hugged her and told her it was better than she could possibly imagine, and thanked her.

I've also noticed that all the presents to be opened Christmas Day are addressed to Debbie as well.

I had to see the dentist this morning, emergency procedure. I wasn't wearing a wig, make-up, or even a really feminine outfit. Yet the staff referred to me as Her, She, and feminine pronouns, INCLUDING when they called my primary dentist for referral and follow-up information.

[gonegirl]

With regard to the preceding post, I don't see what clothing has to do with this topic.

[DebbieL]

Don't we all Gianna. That would have been 1970 for me.
I came out to my parents the first time in 1961.


In that day, there were few resources and fewer folks brave enough to admit to being TG.
In the 1960s and early 1970s, treatment was barbaric. Electroshock, aversion therapy, deprogramming, torture, "boot camp".
In many states, doctors could lose their licenses, in others, they could lose their hospital privileges, especially in Catholic or religious hospitals.
Doctors had to be sensitive to the concerns of donors and benefactors, which limited what they could do medically.

Until Johns Hopkins started their gender therapy program, people had to go to other countries to get HRT and SRS, and even when gender therapy did start in the USA, until the late 1990s, there was NO HRT allowed or given until the patient was living AT LEAST 120 hours a week as their chosen gender. Clients had to be gainfully employed, be in a stable monogamous relationship, and so on.

Even today, many endocrinologists refuse to treat or monitor transgender patients. In some cases, their receptionists won't even schedule an appointment with the doctor. Many doctors only prescribe HRT only after patients have already obtained hormones via "white market" sources such as the internet. The irony is that once my doctor knew I was taking them, she had no problem giving me a prescription. When I went to Mazzoni center to check hormone levels (endo), the medical work was done by a PA who told me I didn't need an endo, that ANY doctor could order the tests and do the level checks.

He was actually surprised that I had gotten such good results with such low doses. When I told my cardiologist that I was taking spiro, he was THRILLED, and took me off one of my heart medications because the spiro was actually better at doing the same thing. He normally didn't give spiro to men because they didn't like the side effects, but I told him that was the best part. He didn't have the same enthusiasm about the estro, but he also said that as long as I didn't take so much that I started causing thrombosis, it should be OK.

My GP was really pleased with everything I had been doing. Debbie had lost weight, my blood pressure had dropped, and my heart rate was lower than normal, which was good. She was able to reduce my other medications because I was doing so many good things as and for Debbie.


It's better today though, and being twenty and TG today could result in more satisfaction. Well never know.
Thank GOODNESS for Harvey Milk and the rest of the LGBT movement. Even when I do get read, which is VERY RARE, and even when people know I'm physically male, they are very good about treating me like a woman and accepting me as a woman.

As more people come out as LGBT, even if it's only on paper, and to close friends and families, it changes how we are perceived. At one time, I was an "abomination" an "it". Now I'm like their cousin, their brother, or some other friend or family member. Many people would share that they had such family members. I knew I'm passing better because more people are no longer treating me as anything other than another woman. An average looking older woman. Works for me.

[PaulaQ]

@DebbieL - I have really never bought into the idea that I would fail. I know transition is difficult. My story is better than many others I know - and it's still hard. But my alternative was that if I didn't do this, I was going to commit suicide. Not to reincarnate - I don't believe in that - but to end the pain. I too spent a lot of time planning accidents.

Someone on the forum here posted a link at one time that pretty well spelled out the doom-n-gloom thesis I outlined in my OP. I read it. And in the depths of my despair decided "**** it" and went out and attempted suicide. Fortunately, I didn't succeed, or injure anyone else in my attempt. I think before trying to give people a "reality check" which is really popular with some on this forum, you need to know your audience.

It's one thing to give someone to whom transition is pretty obviously a masturbatory fantasy a wakeup call. They may or may not need to transition at some point - but anyone who thinks this will be "fun" is kidding themselves. Telling someone who's on the brink of suicide because of misery from GD "yeah, it probably won't work - don't bother trying the treatment", is just freaking cruel. That's what happened to me here.

edit: How do you know someone is seriously disturbed with GD? You don't always - but here's a hint - if you can't differentiate between someone's fantasy, and someone, say like me, 6 months ago, who was pretty obviously emotionally disturbed, and also displayed a whole heap of absolutely text-book perfect late symptoms of GD, then don't try to give people advice. Just don't. I know many on this forum (and this boggles my mind, but I believe it), have not felt suicidal. I'm really happy for you - please believe that for some of us, those feelings are very real, and extremely dangerous. Again, if you don't get this - please don't give advice.

Would anyone on this forum seriously tell a cancer patient "nah, don't bother with treatment. Odds are, with your type of cancer, you won't make it?" (/rhetorical. Please don't answer that if the answer is yes - I don't want to know you.)

Ultimately, I'm transitioning, and I hope I look OK, but mostly, as long as I can look in the mirror and not contemplate the notion "gee, I'd feel better with a bullet hole in my face", I'll call it a win. I'm feeling MUCH better than I did 6 months ago - my GP doc was astounded at the degree of my emotional recovery on HRT. So I am pretty sure I can make it. I still have a lot to do though.

And yeah, the WORST prejudice I've personally encountered, BY FAR, has been from medical professionals. If I ever sound angry about these topics, it's because I am, because it's personal with me.

[EmilyPith]

PaulaQ, your story is heartbreaking and inspirational at the same time.
The thing that stands out to me from your OP is the comment of the young one in regards to your age. Of course you aren't trying to become a 20 year old, but a mature woman.

You are truly becoming you, and you are brave.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I hear you Paula. The good part about your anger is that its often fueled by the feeling you can't do anything about it...and the way you are treated is even more fuel...people guiding you towards the idea that you can't do anything about it are toxic.
But you are doing something about it. I would be very hopeful that your anger fades as you move forward..

There are so many misconceptions about what happens if you transition your life and live the rest of it as a female (as yourself)..especially as we get older... I get a kick out of anyone that says you are too old to do anything...its like we lose our rights and our standing in the world to some people...its a joke...and the biggest joke is those folks that perpetuate this thinking are gonna get old!!

I think you already understand the key thing you are fixing is the emptiness of gender dysphoria will go away for you...as you go further down the path the GD is likely to be mitigated and you are feeling that right now!! that is a really good sign..

I know 2 other people that had ffs, and dozens of transitioned ts women that did not have ffs...passable, not passable, husky voice, female voice, big, small, young (youngest I've met 17), old (oldest I met was 71 and she transitioned when she found out she had cancer and said F'it...I'm Marcie).......on and on... its not about clothes, its not about appearance, its not about age...

don't get me wrong...having a terrible appearance (which you clearly do not!!!!) is a quality of life challenge....but they are just "girl" problems, they are your problems that you will feel are your problems....its a pretty amazing feeling

we all crave and deserve that feeling. its what we all have in common ...the difference is the intensity of it..
some people are able to get by without fully transitioning, but as you point out, their experience is not very meaningful to you at this time..

As you find yourself in the "I must transition" state of mind (which I know you are there), you take steps to transition...you are taking them....its really that simple!!!! I bet my bottom dollar you will do great..

[mary something]

an 18 or 19 year old person who looks feminine but is a biological male SOMETIMES views male attention as unwanted and scary, this is because it can be very dangerous to the person. Male sexual attention is sometimes received without asking for it, the person giving the attention feels entitled to do so, and then if they discover that the person is biologically male they turn their anger on the object of their attention (who never asked for it in the first place).

Few young people have the means necessary for procedures that would make them saf(er). When your concern is having a safe place to live and being able to keep a job some things just feel like a fantasy that are too far beyond day to day issues.

The male feels victimized by the persons's mere existence and the hefty sense of sexual entitlement they have (that they aren't even aware of having), and sometimes will react in a violent or aggressive manner towards the REAL victim of the situation.

That is the perspective from which I read the comments that it takes balls to do it. Most teenagers communicate from THEIR place of understanding. I assumed that most people who have been a transsexual their entire life would automatically understand.

I thought ameliabee made an excellent point, and appreciate her bravery to be honest even if it garners criticism.

It had nothing to do with trying to tell someone they can or can't do anything. It had nothing to do with making a statement to offend anyone else, it wasn't intended that way nor will I apologize for stating the obvious fact that the amount of male sexual attention a woman receives is lessened as she ages. Of course people will still find you sexy.

There is much more to being a woman than whether a man thinks she is sexy, but of course feeling desirable and attractive is important to ANYONE.

Paula you are attractive, you have a wit and humor that is especially attractive as I've told you countless times. You are also very brave and determined. I wish you luck! :hugs: