Does DADT eventually become acceptance?

[CarlaWestin]

My wife and I love each other dearly and I am always respectfully mindful of her level of acceptance. Currently, I don't even expose my painted toenails when she's around and I don't bring up the subject of gender exploration unless she initiates the topic. The other morning I was awakened by the sound of water from an overflowing toilet. As I have an early schedule, I generally sleep in another room. I dispatched myself to the emergency in the usual nightgown, bra with forms, slippers and silky robe. I checked to see if she was OK and gave her a hug and helped her back to bed. Nothing at all was said about the way I was dressed. It was just, well, normal. So, can I maybe feel as though if I continue to not make a big deal about my girl life, someday it will just be accepted?

[Katey888]

Carla - brave of you to risk a night gown et al. :heehee: I, for one would not be risking any of my girly attire in the vicinity of an overflowing loo! :eek:
And I think you're right and your approach is the right one: your care and love comes through whatever you're wearing and ultimately that is what will be the overwhelming message your wife receives. Keep doing what you're doing gently and surely without any histrionics or melodrama and I'm sure you'll get there.
You certainly have my best wishes... :hugs:
Katey x

[Allison2006]

When I first told my then fiance' about my dressing, she said I could keep my fem stuff, but didn't want to see me in it. About 5 years after we were married, I found the opportunity to talk to her about it again, and found that she had become supportive and accepting of it, without any effort on my part. So it can happen. Hope it works out for you!!

[Gretchen_To_Be]

Carla, when I first came out in Dec 2012, I pushed things a bit and my wife pushed back. It became DADT. Then it progressed wonderfully to the point where she willingly participated, within limits. Now we are at a new normal. I would call it limited acceptance.

[Jaylyn]

I'm puzzled why do you sleep in different rooms? Is it because she doesn't want to see you dressed or totally because of your early schedule and you don't want to wake her. It really doesn't matter but if your love is strong enough it will conquer all.

[NicoleScott]

Jaylyn, I won't speak for Carla, but there are many reasons married couples sleep in separate rooms. Different schedules, comfort (I HATE a ceiling fan on me at night. Some people cant' sleep without it), temperature, covers, and the big one: snoring. There's a time for making whoopie, and a time for sleep.
Carla, I'm not sure her reaction (or absence of one) was an indication of acceptance. It may have been overlooked or ignored as she was just grateful that you responded to an urgent situation so quickly. If she had reacted negatively, maybe the next time your response would be delayed a few minutes while you changed clothes.

[Beverley Sims]

Carla,
In situations like you describe, the help is appreciated and the acceptance will come but slowly.

[Rachael Leigh]

Oh how I wish that were true, for me I've given up any hope my wife will ever come around beyond DADT.
I'm almost to the point to avoid conflict anymore to just stop my dressing altogether.
I'm just really tired of feeling as if this were some kind of curse I put on her and I'm making her suffer for it.

[MarisaRose.]

It all takes time, My wife still has her moments about it all, and I understand that. If you really love, respect and trust each other your relationship will evolve, and complete acceptance of each other will be the result...

[PretzelGirl]

I think you have the right attitude about it Carla. Not making a big deal out of it is what will help it become the new normal if that is ever a possibility. Bringing it up often or pressing just makes it something to push back on. Sorry about your incident and I hope there is no lingering damage. The fact that you ran in as is may show some increased acceptance and it could just be that it was a somewhat urgent situation that she didn't say anything. That is where it becomes a little hairy as you don't know and if you bring it up, you might be pressing. Such is the life we live sometimes as there isn't always an easy answer.

[DebbieL]

I've had experiences both ways. I didn't tell my first wife until after we moved in together but before we were married. She seemed accepting and so I decided to marry her. Even before the wedding, however, she became less and less accepting. Eventually, 9 years later, we reached the point where we had to go our separate ways. There were other issues. I worked too many hours for her tastes, and when I quit smoking I rewarded myself by dressing more. There were other issues she had to deal with (rape and PTSS from before we met).

After that, I made sure that my partners knew up front. In fact, most of them initiated BECAUSE they knew I was transgendered. They asked me out, and they told me I was going to bed with them and they told me to get dressed.

I got married a second time, and realized I wanted to transition. I tried to hide those feelings, but it became obvious to my wife, who started out saying "I'm not OK with you becoming a woman". Over time, she has become more accepting of Debbie and realized that she likes Debbie better than Rex. She did tell me I had to stop buying cheap ****ty clothes and after Christmas we went on a shopping spree at some nice high-end stores where I now have a beautiful professional wardrobe for work.

The biggest challenge for Lee was that she had the conflict between "What would others think" and how she felt. Rex was a "motor-mouth", a clown, and a nerd who compulsively did factoid dumps. Rex didn't express feelings well. Debbie on the other hand, was much more socially skilled, much more interested in other people, much kinder, more polite, and always had a kind word for everybody. I didn't have to maintain the mask of Rex, so I could be myself. When Debbie joined the family for Thanksgiving, she was surprised that everyone was so accepting. A few people were a bit shocked at how much I wanted to be involved in the cooking and the cleaning. I also played the games with the family instead of going off to a corner to read a book and fall asleep. The whole family fell in love with Debbie. At Christmas, ALL of the presents, INCLUDING those addressed to "Rex from Santa" (her father) were for Debbie. At several points I was weeping for joy at their acceptance and beautiful and thoughtful gifts. They were worried that they didn't get Rex any presents, but I told them (still weeping with joy) that this was perfect and Rex didn't need any presents.

At church, my hair has grown out, my breasts are growing, and It's getting pretty obvious. Several women have come up to me and said "We can't WAIT to see you in your dress!". I would never have believed such acceptance was possible.

So much of it is those powerful differences between Debbie and Rex. People LIKE Debbie. In fact, once they meet Debbie, they realize that I never really was Rex.

When Carla came to her wife's rescue in the bathroom, not worrying about the vanity of the bathrobe but just concerned for her wife, her wife began to see that Carla was a loving, caring, and gentle person who would rescue her wife from a leaky loo in nightgown, slippers, and silky robe.

Often, when our wives or loved ones try to visualize us dressed, or even when they see us dressed, they are not only not relating to us, they are seeing the worst of our male selves and the selfish and vain girls they hated in middle school or high school.

The real question of acceptance isn't whether or not you dress in front of her or not, the "DADT" mode. In fact, that may cause more conflict because your wife sees Carla as a rival for resources, and for her husband's heart. DADT creates the atmosphere of willful deception. In effect it's saying "You should lie to me and I will pretend you are not lying". If you had DADT about an affair with a secretary, you can guess how that would turn out. Often, DADT is a way of trying to avoid the rejection of something unknown.

The saddest part of DADT is that the woman you love the most doesn't get to meet a very important part of you, something you hold near and dear. It would be a bit like your wife telling you she doesn't want you to see your children, or your family, or your friends anymore, because even though she hasn't met them, she knows she will hate them. It says more about HER than THEM. DADT about Carla is the same thing. She is the one who is missing out on an important part of your life - because she knows she won't like someone she has never met.

The real $1 million question for you is - Who is Carla? Who is she for your wife? What does Carla offer that Carl doesn't? Fixing Leaking toilets might be Carl's job, but Carla can fix the toiled AND give her wife a hug and help her back to bed.

[JamieG]

I think it can. And I think anything that demonstrates that your SO comes first helps you along the way. Rushing to her aid despite the way you were dressed showed her that your still able to be her knight in shining armor, even if your armor's shininess is because it's a satin nightgown.

[kimdl93]

patience is a virtue. So is being available for conversation. I have an accepting wife who has known about my dressing since before we were engaged. She accepted the evolution of my dressing from occasional underdressing to nearly full time, but it has taken something more than a decade. I stress evolution....I didn't begin with the objective of dressing full time - when we first discussed dressing I couldn't imagine the possibility. But things change, relationships can grow.

[Secret Drawer]

patience is a virtue. So is being available for conversation. I have an accepting wife who has known about my dressing since before we were engaged. She accepted the evolution of my dressing from occasional underdressing to nearly full time, but it has taken something more than a decade. I stress evolution....I didn't begin with the objective of dressing full time - when we first discussed dressing I couldn't imagine the possibility. But things change, relationships can grow.

This IS the biggest problem with DADT relationships!!! Many of us seem to evolve (as stated) over time, and if our spouses continue to be stubborn on the DADT, they get left even more behind, and we become even more frustrated with the situation we find ourselves in!

[Joanne f]

DADT does not mean that acceptance will follow it just means that " I know what you do but I really do not want to see it " yes that is acceptance of a sort and it sounds like you have a little more than that so it is always possible that you will get more of the acceptance that you are looking for but you need to go quite slow , just play it by ear and judge any reaction to times like you have just mentioned and pull back if you think you have crossed the line .

[Dianne S]

I think it can go either way. In my case, my wife became less comfortable with my dressing as time went on and went from grudgingly-accepting to more-or-less completely DADT.

[Eryn]

I think that communication is very important, both to inform your wife of how important your gender identity is to you and to have her tell you of her concerns and needs. Unfortunately, a DADT relationship pretty much excludes communication.

The question is, could you and your wife handle an honest 2-way conversation if it might improve your relationship? Having a topic that Cannot Be Spoken Of is not terribly healthy for either of you. Perhaps you might ask her this question gently and diplomatically.

[PaulaQ]

My personal experience, albeit briefly, with DADT was that it was a living hell. I'd really recommend that you find a counselor who understands gender issues, and for you and your wife to work with them to get through this issue.

I can't say that DADT is horrible for everyone, there are plenty of folks on this forum who's marriages continue along seemingly fine, although I've yet to speak with anyone who seemed to indicate that either spouse was very happy about with the arrangement.

To me, DADT represents a fundamental rejection of a part of you by the person who you love more than anything. I simply could not live with that. But look - since I'm trans, DADT was pretty much doomed for me from the start, so perhaps my perspective is skewed.

[Sheila11]

I think it can go either way. In my case, my wife became less comfortable with my dressing as time went on and went from grudgingly-accepting to more-or-less completely DADT.

My situation has been exactly the same. Evolved to not only DADT, but don't bring it up, don't ever mention it or any aspect of it ever.

[Rachael Leigh]

I feel your pain Shelia

[LaraPeterson]

Carla, DADT will always be considered by some to be deception. Maybe it is. For me, and for many, many more of us, it is a matter of survival in our relationships. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback when you've never played in someone else's game. As for your question about acceptance, I'd say no. Acceptance will only come after frank discussion. I don't think that will ever happen for me and it might never happen for you. But think about this, non-acceptance of our crossdressing/transgender habits doesn't necessarily doom an otherwise healthy relationship with our wives.

I've been married a long time and my wife realizes that I've shown her a lot of love in our years together. When she comes up against my "habit," she reminds herself of my many expressions of love for her. She has told me that. So, my advice (btw, my advice and a dollar will buy you a small cup of coffee at most fast food restaurants) to you is be kind and loving and be who you are. If that doesn't work, nothing will.

[AngelaKelly<3]

Everyone has their own ways of finding a path to acceptance of something that's perhaps a little..."unorthodox"...like our shared liking towards feminine attire :)

[Alice B]

Not for everyone, but for most YES. As long as one does not shove it in the face of their SO. For some of us the change is quick, for others slow, for some very slow and for a few never. But the fact that an SO knows and is not throwing it at you means there is a chance for the doors to open.

[CarlaWestin]

Thank you all for your kind and inciteful responses. This site really is about support.




I've been married a long time and my wife realizes that I've shown her a lot of love in our years together. When she comes up against my "habit," she reminds herself of my many expressions of love for her. So, my advice (btw, my advice and a dollar will buy you a small cup of coffee at most fast food restaurants) to you is be kind and loving and be who you are.

This very closely describes our relationship. I always express my love for her with my actions and demeanor. It's easy. I just love her.


Jaylyn, I won't speak for Carla, but there are many reasons married couples sleep in separate rooms. Different schedules, comfort (I HATE a ceiling fan on me at night. Some people cant' sleep without it), temperature, covers, and the big one: snoring. There's a time for making whoopie, and a time for sleep.


We're older and we have a great house. I work, she's retired. We spend nearly all of our time together because we are best friends and, husband and wife. Also, we each have an entire area exclusively with large closets, bedroom, office and bath. You should see my (wo)man cave! Due to different schedules we generally sleep in different rooms. My day starts at 3:30am and neither of us can get a good nights sleep if we sleep together. DADT is starting to dissolve slowly but I know better than to push it. The therapist that my wife sees is a gender professional and occasionally I'm invited to attend. Although I've seen gurlz in the waiting room, I'm not sure how I would react if I was asked to attend a meeting enfem. I'm sure wifey would love to help me get ready for that. OK, so the mind is wandering now!

[marsha leanne]

i have to agree with joanne f. My spouse was told of my dressing at the beginning, (which was a huge step for me as the first wife was NOT accepting in ANY form!) she mearly asked that I not use her clothes. She has uncoverd part of the wardrobe and other than mention it at the time has left it alone. when she goes out and I stay behind, she will always call to let me know she is on the way home, partly because we both do that as a courtesy to each other, but also to give me a heads up that "marsha" time, if any is going on, is over. She has not indicated that she wants to move out of this arrangement, and that works for me. It is very hard not to be able to activly share with her, she does not even know that my other side has a name, and she has no idea how deep the wardrobe goes, but it works, there is peace in the house and at the momemnt it is very comfortable.