So what's the point

[Rachael Leigh]

I'm just curious, when you have a SO who just wants nothing to do with your dressing and in fact despises everything about it what is the point of even dressing anymore.
You want to share some aspects of it with her but she just can't stand any of it.
You love her and she's your best friend who knows your deepest secret and yet she doesn't want you to do it nor any part of it.
So why keep on dressing?
I know I will get some that say it's part of you so just let it be, well that's not working so what's the point. The tension in my house over this is overwhelming and Im so tired of needing to always be a man in the sense of what everyone thinks is a man.
I absolutely hate myself and wish I was not so burdened with my other side.

[Wildaboutheels]

Well you have been married for 32 years, and unless I misinterpreted one of your posts she knew when you got married.

You also GAVE the following advice right after joining here...

"Never easy coming clean with this and your spouse but I would say now is a good time. It will never be easy and if she's not ok with it well than you need to understand her boundaries."

I am afraid that Love does not conquer all. We are all entitled to our own dealbreakers. Sounds like DADT is no longer suitable to you. After 32 years it looks like you are going to have to choose your dressing OR your wife.

It might help you to try to join a group or find a friend in your area to share your female side with? Is that an option?

[natalialimapoa]

"So why keep on dressing? Im so tired of needing to always be a man in the sense of what everyone thinks is a man."

Someone once told me the definition of hell: the last day you have on earth, the person you became... meets the person you could have become.

Think about that.

[Karren H]

I never wanted to share any of this with her.... ever.... its my hobby and mine alone.... like the only thing in my life I have 100% control over... and why keep doing it? like I have a choice?

[Rachael Leigh]

As far as sharing this with someone else no I don't have that and even if I did I would not do it.
I made that mistake once when I was exploring my adult baby side that has long been gone.
I met with someone twice and felt very guilty for it.
I love my wife and never ever meant to hurt her with this but it's very clear she is hurting as am I for very different reasons so it's a very tough road for me. I'm on the verge of purging but for now it's on hold.
I've had such wonderful support here and so many stories that have yet been told.
I know many here know I've got a strong faith and yes that is a factor in this but Ive also made peace with myself and this part of me I think that's what is making this so difficult

[Dianne S]

I'm in a comparable situation. My wife does not like my CDing and wants nothing to do with it; as tensions in our marriage have gone up (for other reasons), her tolerance for my CDing has gone down.

But I know if I don't CD 2-4 times per month, I get tense and cranky. It's just something I need to do to retain my sanity.

[Beverley Sims]

You can still have time in your temple of solitude somewhere.

[kimdl93]

If you hate yourself and the tensions in your household are unbearable, then why are you asking. As an old friend once said, "if you keep doing something, you must like it".

[Kate Simmons]

Sometimes we need to evaluate our situation and ask ourselves if we are happy. Only we can answer that question.:)

[Tamara Croft]

If you played golf and your wife hated it, didn't want anything to do with it, despised it yet you loved it, would you give that up? Just because someone doesn't like something you do, doesn't mean you should give it up. I'm sure you hate some things she does, yet she probably wouldn't give them up because you don't like it, she shouldn't expect (if she does) you to either!

[Tammietoo]

The why is easy, its in me and I can't help myself. The shame, guilt and other things associated can surface sometimes too. If I could just shut it off I probably would (its a lot of work, and I look older all the time) there would be a lot less headache without dressing between with my wife and my life in general, but alas, it is who I am on some level, and there is simply no getting around that.

[Katey888]

Leigh, I do feel for you :hugs: - for me, Tamara has got the relevant answer (got their 15 mins before me... darn!) - if you are able to step back from the socially unacceptable perspective of what we do, at the end of the day, it's a hobby for most of us; and for those of us that can find solace and peace in that for however brief a time and in private, it's really no different from watching football, playing golf, whittling... :eek: ...whatever... Unless there was something deeply involving morals or ethical values here - and I accept there might be - isn't this just something you do for you and you have a perfect right to that?
Compromise is a two-way process - perhaps you can explore that further with your SO to find an acceptable way forward..?
Katey x

[mary something]

...Im so tired of needing to always be a man in the sense of what everyone thinks is a man.
I absolutely hate myself and wish I was not so burdened with my other side.

Why not be the kind of man that is aware of what "everyone thinks" but is still their own man? That has to create a difficult situation, it sounds like you are trying to act unnaturally for the approval of others which leads to self-hate because others can tell when we aren't happy even if they don't know why. All they know is that it isn't working and tend to blame it on whatever makes sense to them.

Try to liberate yourself from feeling like everyone's love of you is conditional if you can. The best way to take tension out of the air is to feel calm. Matter of fact if the tension is bad and has been for a while and your loved ones are still there then it's hardly conditional on being happy is it?

Could you describe what you feel you need to be/do to fulfill other's expectations of you being a man?

Does your wife not understand that some men can have a feminine nature also? Does she feel that makes you less of a man?

[Joanne f]

Hello LeighR,
yes a very difficult and unpleasant situation to be in, you want to share a part of yourself but can't , it would be wrong for me to try and tell you what to do as everybody's situation is different and I can understand why you say " what is the point" I only thing that I could suggest is that you try to talk to your wife and tell her the trap that you are in, that it is difficult to make one option over ride the other so you need both and then hang on to hope for so that one or both will find a way forward . sorry I cannot be more helpful.

[danielletorresani]

I've been struggling with this lately, too.

I grew up with a mom who pretty much gave me everything I wanted. Sure, it was cool as a kid, but it did terrible damage as an adult. The concept of "sacrifice" is a good and noble thing, but sadly it's very foreign to me. If I want something, then I do whatever I can to get it.

Right now, I'm in a situation slightly like yours, but minus the crazy tension. I'm married and though my wife knows (she found some vids on my PC one night), she is not supportive and is totally against it. She doesn't know that I even still do it. I absolutely HATE keeping secrets from my wife, but if I want to continue dressing, that's the way it has to be. These days, dressing up and (sorry to be graphic) porn with CD's involved is just about the only thing that gets my engine going, anymore. It's invaded my mind so much that it's starting to hurt my relationship and sex life with my wife.

I look at it like if I was a gardener with only a 5 foot run of garden. There's two plants/trees I've ALWAYS wanted to own, but each one needs a full 5 feet of space on both sides in order to grow properly. I can try and plant one at each end of the garden and hope for the best, but the roots aren't able to grow properly and they both die. I can fret and fume all I want, but the bottom line is this; I can't have both.

That's the realization I'm coming to, that to endulge in dressing and still have a family (for me, anyway) is just not sustainable. Just because two things are good does not necessarily mean they can co-exist. I have to choose, and if I have to choose, I choose my family, hands down.

But hey, that's just me. Not everyone would choose their family, and maybe that's for the best.

Of course, I say all these things while wearing a cute pink dress with a bustier and thigh highs underneath, so take it with a grain of salt....

[heatherdress]

You have to address "hating yourself" for being who you are. You shouldn't.

You need to respect your wife's feelings - but your feelings are just as important.

A good therapist might be helpful. Not much is perfect in life - but you should be able to lessen tensions and personal pressures.

[NicoleScott]

A good relationship doesn't have to be defined by each partner being intimately involved with absolutely every interest of the other. My wife and I have common interests, but she has her own and I have my own. Sometimes the away-from-each-other-time enhances the together-time. Many of us do pretty well with our CDing with mates who don't want to see or hear about it. This is easier to do when you give up on the desire or need to share it with her, and just realize this is something you are driven to do, so you have to deal with it alone.

[Melissa_59]

Leigh, my ex-wife hated my dressing too. It wasn't the only reason she's an ex-wife, but it was a factor in the final dissolution of our marriage. I tried for 15 years (we were married a total of 23 years) to repair our relationship, and I went about 10 years without dressing - didn't matter, because she "knew" that I had once, and whenever an argument broke out, she used that against me too ("Well.... uh... you dressed like a girl!!!!").

I don't know of too many people that ever quit dressing and never went back. I know LOTS of people who quit dressing for short and long periods of time and then finally went back and it was like they'd found their old selves again. I've always considered cross gender dressing to be a compulsion, not an addiction. Addictions can be broken (I dropped a four pack a day habit back in 1997, haven't smoked since), but compulsions are different. Even if you quit, the odds are you will start again and you'll be right back to where you are now - unhappy and marriage in trouble.

Have you asked her why she hates it so much? Does she "just hate it" and there is no rational reason? She really needs to examine why it bothers her so much, and she needs to tell you so you have a chance to work on it. It wouldn't hurt if you went to a counselor but I'll give you a hint on counselors - they don't all work for everyone. If the counselor is not helpful, fire him/her and find another one that will help you. A good counselor will tell you that right from the start.

If she's not willing to work on that (red flag right there, sweetie), you're going to have to make a choice. And either way will not be easy. Divorce wasn't easy for me because even though there were a cargo crate load of issues my ex-wife had that she refused to even consider talking about, I still cared for her. Now that she's been out of my life for 10 years though, I wonder why I hadn't gotten the divorce much much earlier. I'm happier than I ever was when I was married to her, and both of my daughters love me (and they don't speak to her - she really was a basket case). I'll admit that only my oldest daughter knows about my "other side" and she's asked not to see it, but she still loves me.

Try talking to her again, and offer to go see a counselor. If she refuses to speak to a counselor you have a decision to make. Either way you can count on folks here to be supportive as we can be, and tossing in our two cents worth. I wish you the best.

[Tina_gm]

Lee, it sounds like you and your wife are going to need some sit down and talk time. I will also say though, that perhaps you may need to learn to not hate yourself even though your wife is not fond of it, or like it. I have accepted that my wife would and will always prefer that I would not be a CDer. Ultimately, even for many wives or GF's who have learned to accept it, if they were given a magic button to make it all go away, how many would opt not to push it? How many of us would at least be tempted to push that button?

Someone asked what exactly it is that she dislikes so much. Such a great question, and one that may need some revisiting by both of you. Over time, perhaps she has gotten certain things or images, thoughts in her head. Maybe, just maybe you might be reading her dislike to be stronger than it really is. I know I have been guilty of this before with my wife. She doesn't hate it. She does often feel conflicted about it. She sometimes feels insecure about the future because of it. I think she hates those feelings more than she hates the CDing itself.

[Rachael Leigh]

I do appreciate all the advice and much is very sound, what really got her cooking this morning was she noticed after about a week I had painted my toenails. So she hit the roof, she said it's not just the cloths you just want to be a girl. I told her no I don't I only felt that way for a short time in my life and now Im very happy being male would never want to do the transition thing.
I just like so many things that seem associated with women I love the concept of nail painting and shaving my legs and many thinks the clothes are a big part of that look.
I don't want to be a man in a dress but I don't mind blending my wardrobe.
Those are just some things I'm trying to accept about this part of me.
I've finally got to the point of who cares what people think they are just clothes.
I guess that's what I wish she could understand

[Tina_gm]

Well, right there, about the painted nails I see where there is a communication break down. Because she never said that you can't doesn't mean an auto green light to do something. ANY feminine alteration, even something such as nail painting, which can be done and then removed in minutes should be discussed.

[Stephanie47]

I started to write a long response and then I deleted it. In your post #20 you kind of summed it up. You know your wife does not appreciate cross dressing. For you "They are just clothes." And, painting your nails and shaving your body hair. I think a major part of the disharmony in your relationship may be throwing something in her face that she does not want to see. I sense you are not at peace with yourself. On some level you really have not accepted yourself. You are seeking validation of yourself by gaining acceptance of your wife. I went that road along time ago until I realized something as simple as trying to get my wife to buy me some pairs of panties for my birthday was tormenting her. My actions were no less than mental spousal abuse. I realized I did not need her acceptance for validation of who I am. She just wanted no part of it. Heck, she even suggested that I find a support group. Some on this site think DADT is the wrong way to survive cross dressing disharmony. DADT is really both spouses respecting the other.

[Tina955]

I can totally relate LieghR. I stopped dressing and purged to save my marriage. That was about 7 years into my marriage which lasted another 27 years until my wife passed away 4 years ago. Felt too guilty for about a year and a half after she passed to start dressing again.(Can't count the times I was asked why are you such an angry person.)Then I found the Internet and the flood gates opened. Spent about $1500.00 the first month on everything from panties to wigs.
I do have to say I still wish I never lost her. I think my life went from not happy to sad and lonely when she died.
So I really feel your frustration Leigh, and hope one way or another things turn around for the better.

Tina

[PaulaQ]

Im so tired of needing to always be a man in the sense of what everyone thinks is a man.
I absolutely hate myself and wish I was not so burdened with my other side.

I quoted these two sentences because in many ways, you answered your own question. You are tired of needing to always be a man - that's the point of continuing to dress. That it creates an open wound in your marriage that won't heal is just awful, I sympathize with you, hon.

In my case, my marriage of 17 years ended over this stuff. (This is unsurprising since I'm transitioning, but it still hurts.) At some point, you may be forced to make an awful choice - and quitting dressing is unlikely to be the one that works long term. Unfortunately. Most of us here have tried to quit - usually multiple times. It simply doesn't happen.

Have you tried couple's counseling with someone who understands gender issues to try to find a way to bridge this matter?

[Rachael Leigh]

As a little update on my situation, my wife and I talked at dinner tonight. I don't think we are ending our marriage however some things she talked about I hope can help me have perspective on where she is.
Her answer to the question what is it she doesn't like about my dressing was she has always felt she was not good enough and that she was all I needed. Also she feels her as she calls my other side is always going to be the one I love and more important.
Our relationship has always been a little rocky in I have an awful selfish streak in me. So I do think I need to really find a way to make her feel special.
Thank you again for your words it's better than counseling since we all wear the same shoes so to speak,
Me I prefer pumps lol.

[gatorgirl]

Hi Leigh!

As a GG who is still so new to this, I have to admit that I think I get a little bit jealous of my SO's other side. Just starting to come to terms with why my feelings/acceptance are so all over the place. From a GGs perspective, we are sharing our loved one with another.

Just a novice perspective from a girl who is trying to be as supportive as she can be with the other girl in her fiancé's life. He is the love of my life and I want to love all of him.

[LaraPeterson]

Leigh, I face exactly the same situation as you, with one exception; apart from the tension caused when my wife found out about me a few months ago, there is not one part of me that doesn't want to continue being exactly who I am; Lara. On the other hand, and this may be a bit different than what you are facing (by your own admission), I'm not one bit selfish when it comes to my wife. I do everything I can to make her as happy as possible. I always have, regardless of my feminine desires.

I believe if you will focus more of your attention on her, and keep your femininity to yourself (at least for a while) she will see that you genuinely care for her and don't want to lose her. That way, hopefully, you won't have to make a choice that will absolutely tear you to shreds.

[Rachael Leigh]

Thanks gator girl we are a very different breed that is for sure, relationships are tough enough and than bring this into it I think girls like you are so special. My emotions are all over the place with this and my wife says the same thing.
She needs me to be her man and I've got to be that for her no matter how difficult it can be sometimes

[Gretchen_To_Be]

Leigh, if this is an important part of you, there has to be a compromise. If you love and respect her enough to control your impulses--despite your selfish tendencies--can't she find it in her heart to do the same?

[joycem]

I also have the same issues with my SO, she has know for the last 11 years, been married for 16, she told me that if she ever finds any girls clothing she might file for divorce. I don't know if she would but I don't want to find out. She has said that when I were panties that my mood is better but still hates anything to do with my hobby, The only good thing is I travel for work which gives me time to dress. Also told me that if she knew before we were married that she probably wouldn't have married me. I also don't know if this is true because her attitude was a lot different back then.

[Katie_Did GG]

Try thinking about it from a wife's POV. I know it's often talked about how y'all look forward to dressing. The planning and all the details seem so well thought out. Making sure everything is as close to perfect as it can be, and plenty of time to enjoy the experience. Sometimes shopping is involved because new items are needed or you'd like to try a new makeup.

Now think about the last time you spent that amount of time and energy planning something to do with your wife. Or for her even.

It's actually a normal reaction for a wife to feel she is coming in second if she really is.

Another example why all the confusion when y'all thought everything had been talked about and settled:

You both think you have reached a compromise: let's say you'll only dress once a week when she is home and you are free to dress when she out for X,Y or Z every Tuesday. You have her full blessing to so even. Heck you can dress with her if you like. Sounds good to you both.... But you do under-dress daily. You see no problem with this, it lets you feel more fem and it's still a little bit dressed--but it's not "really dressing" you reason, so maybe you add a bra under your work shirt. You may notice she seems a bit withdrawn from you but since you cannot think of thing you've done to upset her you ignore it and go about your life. She hasn't said a thing to make you think it's anything to do with you so you reason well she didn't say anything so I'm going to start sleeping in my silky nightie.

BUT from her POV you are dressing every day. She never gets to see just her guy. Even if it is only under-dressing it is still a very real reminder to her. Ditto for nail polish, makeup and jewelry. Because for her you have violated the agreement and her trust in you. She didn't say anything because maybe in her mind she isn't good enough or woman enough or something must be wrong with her since you just keep doing this stuff. You don't even ask about it or discuss a thing with her first.

[samanthasolo]

Leigh, aside from the inner conflict going on within you, what is going on in your home is taking it's toll on the both of you! Maybe you should sit down and have a heart to heart, suggest seeking out a therapist to help BOTH of you find a middle ground where there is happiness for both of you. I wish you the best, but we all know your what's the sense question is not going to answer itself, your dressing is not going to stop, and the definition of insanity is continually doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. You both have to do something different before anything is going to change for the better.

[looking_good]

Leigh - thank you for talking about this and for the chance to reflect. One of the things I have tried to consider out of my own SO situation is 'what could my wife get out of this?" I could be as simple as a good shopping companion or perhaps a more empathetic partner. Her answer about what she does not like about your dressing - that she was not good enough - is something I would have never been able to guess. No matter what, perhaps there is a chance for you to help her work through that issue first and in turn learn about a more supportive side of you?

[Katy120]

Leigh, aside from the inner conflict going on within you, what is going on in your home is taking it's toll on the both of you! Maybe you should sit down and have a heart to heart, suggest seeking out a therapist to help BOTH of you find a middle ground where there is happiness for both of you. I wish you the best, but we all know your what's the sense question is not going to answer itself, your dressing is not going to stop, and the definition of insanity is continually doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. You both have to do something different before anything is going to change for the better.

I would commend to you Samantha's words. From my blurry-eyed perspective, she is spot on.

[franny lin]

It's the hiding , the morning after, and going shopping and not being able say anything. If I didn't dress life would be great, how can something feel so right cause so many p
roblems.

[Briana90802]

My wife and I have a deal. There comes a point where I need her to be just my best friend. So we have a deal. I can ask her to just be a friend, not a wife. We started out as friends and it's always been the basis of our relationship. Sometimes we have to remove the emotion, sometimes we need to think logically with our SO.

[Tamara Segunda]

Dear Leigh:
I'm a day late seeing your message (I only visit here infrequently), but your problem made me dig up a message I sent some years ago to a friend. I hope I'm not being presumptuous, and I do hope there may be a small nugget in it that you might find helpful. Here it is:

Some years ago, my wife also let me know that visible manifestations of my TGness "just turns me off." Here, paraphrased, is what I told her:

"My darling, I wish there were some way I could tell you how sad it makes me when you say that something about me -- a part of me that I never asked for and that I cannot wish away -- turns you off. If you want me to, though, I will try with all of my might to keep any outward sign of this away from you. I know I can bottle up these feelings and hide them from others, because I've done it before. You won't have to see it, smell it, hear about it, or feel it.

"But is that what you would really want? Would you want to know that there was a big part of *me* that would always be hidden from you? Would it make you happy to know that I would always be careful to never let you know how I *really* feel about anything? Would you really rather have a pretend he-man for a husband instead of the one you HAVE had for the past __ years? I love you so much, and so much do I need your love in return, that I would wear any disguise if I thought it would make you happy and help you to love me as I've always loved you.

"Something I do turns you OFF? I guess the only way I can let you know how that feels is to tell you a little story. A long time ago, when I first started using the internet, I came across a silly sex quiz -- some ridiculous thing with a title like, 'How kinky are you?' Anyway, it described just about every conceivable thing that somebody somewhere has ever done to achieve an orgasm, and you were supposed to rate your reaction to it. Frankly, some of that stuff was so far out I didn't know if it was supposed to be revolting or laughable. Anyway, when I tried to imagine a lot of the things they mentioned I had to turn my nose up. And, okay, some of the supposedly _kinky_stuff_ made me lick my lips, but you already knew that.

But then, at the end of the quiz, it said something like, 'Please answer the same questions again, but this time imagine that your current partner has confessed that he or she had always been turned on by the particular activity.'

"Now this might make you *really* disgusted, but my darling, if you were to confide in me that there was *anything* that might bring you pleasure, not only could I DO it, that quiz convinced me that I could and would get *into* it. Loving you as I do, I want more than anything to feed you, to clothe you, to shelter you, and to satisfy *whatever* hungers -- whatever *needs* you may have. I guess I was foolish enough to think that you might feel the same."

Leigh, I have to admit that telling her all of this didn't have any *immediate* effect, but I know she thought about it, because within a couple of weeks things started getting better, and they've been at least "okay" ever since. Your mileage may vary. In any event, I wish the best for you and for her. Warm hugs,
......Tamara.

[Patrica Gil]

Been there, done that, doing something different that feels much better. My ex didn't want anything to do with it, whereas it was time to just be the person I am and it is wonderful.

[Rachael Leigh]

Just a short update, today was a better day. Not sure exactly where we are totally but for now no purge, yay.
I think she's just going to do her best to accept what she can I doubt it will ever get to the level wanting to see me dressed even though she has seen me before. So I will make a better effort on us and me as her man I know she wants and needs that as much as I feel my need for my dressing.
Thanks all again for your super support.
Hugs Leigh

[Tina_gm]

Leigh, I think there is a reality among many relationships where CDing is a part, and that is there will be days which are difficult. Days where we are feeling more of a desire to dress and or be feminine, but at the same time days where the S/O's are needing our guy side more than usual. There will likely always be some compromise, and both parties will have to come to the table with that. Some days, we will have to just suck it up, other days, maybe our S/O's will have to give a little more too. I think though what is important, and it can be a work of art perhaps for many of us who are CD's. is to be able to continue to express ourselves and be comfortable with ourselves, yet, still at the end, that our families and S/O's always maintain that top spot on our priorities.