an observation, a question, more questions...confusion

[paulaprimo]

i live in a small town. while eating in the local diner this morning, i noticed 6 other people in there. 3 men and 3 women. all were wearing brown work boots, bluejeans, sweatshirts and ball caps...no big deal right? so my questions are:

1- are the men dressed as women?

2- are the women dressed as men?

2a- if the women are dressed as men are they cd'ers?

3- is it even possible for a woman to be a cd'er?

not sure if it helps with you answer, but there was also 6 pick-up trucks in the parking lot.
any takers?? :eek:

[Erica Marie]

Oh dang-it you just made my life more difficult. Ugh

[FemmeElastique]

When women dress like that, I feel like it's a waste. They could be wearing clothes that are so much sexier, and feminine, and with makeup.
I guess it's because as a CDer I can't always dress like a woman, and when I do, I make the best of it.

[Cheryl T]

Yahoo!!!!
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes


Hope that helps....


Maybe that's the new black??

[kimdl93]

Women generally dress for the situation. My guess is that they had either employment or other activities that required such attire. CDrs may be motivated by a number of things, four foremost is the desire to wear garments associated with the other gender. It's a cute bit of rhetoric to equate women in jeans and boots with men I skirts, but is simply invalid.

[paulaprimo]

makes sense that employment can be a factor...guess that explains why my waiter was wearing a skirt :D

[Stephanie47]

Frankly, it sounds as if they were all part of a work crew and dressed appropriately. Not too long ago I saw a young very trim and athletic looking woman with a dynamite body and long blond hair. She was dressed in jeans and boots. She was driving a dump truck with trailer. How else should she had been attired? A woman, when she's hot, she's hot. It all comes down to what society says is appropriate. I know if the group were office workers, we'd all wish all were attired in dresses and heels! Right?

[SometimesJen]

Jeans, boots, and pickup trucks in a small town diner? While it's entirely possible for women to be cd'ers (I know a couple), this just sounds like everyone was dressed for practicality. Now, if the women had penciled-on beards & mustaches, that could be a different story.

[paulaprimo]

lol steph, i couldn't agree with you more!! if all 6 were office workers and all 6 wore dresses and heels, society would see that as acceptable...i gotcha now ;)

[anna kate]

I would not read too much into it, Paula. Women dress as needed, my wife even drives my pickup when she needs to. (I wear skirts more often than she does) I do agree, that if all six were in skirts, then at least three of them would be CD. That's the double standard, that society thrusts upon us. I live ten miles from town, I see this at the local diner here all the time.

[LaraPeterson]

Brown boots? Were they all light skinned? Could they have been Aryan? Maybe they were stormtrooper in disguise. Certainly the women must have been crossdressers. Or maybe they were just out for a casual breakfast and this is how they do casual.

[AllieSF]

I used to live for 3 years in central Minnesota right in the small farm town area. They are just probably regulars with other activities to do after breakfast. If they are friends, who needs to over dress for that? Look at the people there over the next month and let us know if the clothes change much. I would guess that they are all very comfortable in their own skins, dress for the locale (small town) and the venue (small time diner during the middle of winter with a very big cold front blowing around), whether they were going to work or not.

[Diane Smith]

How sure are you that exactly three were men, and three were women? What told you that? Any chance that one or more were not exactly what they appeared to be?

- Diane

[chessdragon]

That's quite a riddle o.o
I think either yes, yes, yes, and yes, or that it also depends on our perception of a gender role.

What makes dresses girly other than the fact that we grow up seeing girls wear them? If that's all there is to it, then when you think of a person in work boots, jeans and ball caps, do you think of a man or a woman? Depending on how you see it, all of our answers could be different.

If there's more to a gender role than society, then maybe we're getting into nature versus nurture. Is pink "girly" because we LEARN that it's girly, or do girls perhaps inherently prefer it deep down...?

It get's complicated, man. xP

[Jorja]

Maybe they were the same six I saw at lunch today as I entered wearing my brown work boots, bluejeans, sweatshirt and ball cap. I had just been out feeding the horses, checking the chickens for eggs, feeding the steers, and the dog. Besides that it was a wet sloppy day while we wait for this big storm to arrive. Now, I know the three guys were guys because I kissed one, pretended to do a lap dance with the other two. As I rubbed up against them I could feel...... well you know. The 3 women were in fact women because I have seen them nude at the gym. ;)

[NathalieX66]

Yahoo!!!!
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes


Hope that helps....


Maybe that's the new black??

Cheryl, it must be the diner we go to.
Peace & love.....hope to see you again, sometime.

[ReineD]

Gender roles in the workplace and also in the home (splitting household chores among couples each of whom work outside the home) have pretty well merged in the last 30 years or so. It's not surprising that some clothing styles have merged as well. Go on any campus and you'll see a universal, unisex clothing style: jeans, sneakers, and a Tshirt.

So no, no one you saw was crossdressing. You could still tell who was male and who was female, right? I mean, the women weren't gluing on facial hair and packing, were they? :)

And no, women do not crossdress, not like the male members in this forum. Other than perhaps early on during the experimental years, if a female wants to present as a male, she will tend to do this all the time because this is who she (or he) is. FtMs tend to mostly be transsexuals. They don't buy their blue jeans in women's stores and they do tend to have male haircuts.

[Jilmac]

I guess the old double standard applies here. Men in jeans, flannel shirts, boots, and ball caps are pretty normal attire, especially for this time of the year. Women wearing the same thing as the men has pretty much been accepted as normal as well. However if the women were wearing skirts, sweaters, pantyhose and heels that would still be considered normal, but if the guys were wearing the same thing as the women, they would be the ones perceived as weirdos. I guess society will never change it's attitude about which clothes are for which gender.

[Marcelle]

Okay here is one back to you:

If a man is a CDer but is dressed in a brown work boots, blue jeans, sweat shirt and a ball cap but has no make-up but insists he is still "en femme" is he a CDer or is he reflection of society's gender neutral approach to clothing. :)

[Beverley Sims]

Paula ,
I have an answer for both you and Isha,

Um? Er! Maybe... I think so... Then again....
What was the question......

Yes both good ones, but "Stop thinking about it and just do an "Isha"......

"Get on with it". :)

[mary something]

Isha- he's gay right? either way let us know :)

Paula- I'm not sure women can crossdress... they certainly don't admit to it even when caught wearing someone else's clothes lol

[BOBBI G.]

Too many thoughts went through my little head, just now. I better not touch this.

Bobbi

[Katey888]

Paula - us old world folks envy everyone in the USofA for being able to wear jeans, ball caps and drive pickup trucks regardless of gender... :heehee: I guess that's why the fashion world looks elsewhere for inspiration (that should get some comments :))

Isha - another riddle... (sigh) to answer: Is he a CDer? Yes - he just has a very fertile imagination (I think, therefore I cd..) :D

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Okay just because it is early . . . darn dogs need to go for a run and I am feeling quite facetious . . .

If a man dresses "en femme" full time but then decides to dress "en boy" is:

(1) she now cross dressing outside her normal gender presentation?

(2) she just a guy wearing guys clothes?

(3) she a guy pretending to be a girl deciding to wear guy clothes in order to blend with other guys?

Hugs

Isha

[daarleane]

Simple answers for someone who doesn't want to walk the dogs. To early for any real thoughts on the matter. Isha, dress warm.

[Sissy_Michelle]

They all work at the same buisness.

[paulaprimo]

just want to thank all of you for the replies. i loved them all!! i did try to have fun with this as it is kinda the normal dress in my area. many girls here work on farms,
factories, gas drilling, construction and highway dept...so no big deal around here.
its just funny how women can pretty much wear anything they like and nobody bats an eye. people should be able to wear whatever it is they feel comfortable in...but society will always have that darn "double-standard issue" when men dress like women.
now if the example i used was 3 men and 3 women in a salon all wearing dresses...i don't think i would of gotten a response lol :)

[Gillian Gigs]

At least we have the answer to one question. The question, "who let the dogs out..who..who", it was Isha! As far as gender roles and clothing goes, give it time. I remember as a teenager in high school that the girls wore skirts or dresses to school unless it was below -10F outside. Then they were allowed to wear a pant suit, anyone disobeying the rules was sent down to the "home economics" room and was given an ugly skirt, or dress to wear for the day. A little shame put that girl in her place! Who knows what everyone will be wearing in 40 years.

[AllieSF]

I actually think that you would get a lot more replies. I understand where you are coming from. However, if one of those 3 women was in a cute short skirt and heels. I bet that she would have gotten a lot of attention whether she could carry that look or not, i.e. looked good in it. People at other tables might have wondered why she was dressed that way (easy lay, loose woman/girl?), maybe think that she was dressed inappropriately for the venue, without ever thinking about where she may be going afterward. Yes, women can dress down easier and wear clothes that were traditionally male. They do it all the time and probably no one ever thinks twice about it.

The key is that they, women and girls, have been doing that for more years than my Medicare age, probably just about all of them have done it at one time or another. They had their issues with acceptance fro society when they started wearing men's clothing too. Now when you compare that same situation to MtF TG's/CD's, you always see that big difference in peoples' take on how we dress. Why, because we are such a very small minority, probably not worthy of counting, and I am talking about the ones who go out and get seen by the general public. There are way too few of us out there dressing as we want and living our lives as we want to really make much difference to how people think.

One way to get out of the discrimination rut that we are in is to get more of us to go out regularly. The more the general public sees us, the quicker they will become accustomed to seeing us and hopefully will also feel better when interacting with us. I believe that they would eventually see us as another dressing style/fad that just won't go away. They might not like it, but they also will stop making a big deal out of it. I never liked the grunge look that made good looking guys and girls look like sloppy expensively dressed bums. After awhile, I got used to it and learned how to ignore it without letting it get to one my sensitive hot buttons.