Response to female attractiveness

[erindemia]

Hi everyone,

Here is a not-so-short discourse on one my biggest struggles. It is a source of considerable pain and much confusion, and I would love to hear your thoughts. Does anyone else feel anything like this?

In a nutshell -- I am tormented and confused by how I feel when I see an attractive girl/woman (in daily life). I have felt this way since early adolescence, when I felt the common torment: somewhat dorky, little chance of success, a bit picked on, etc. At 13, girls were terribly desirable and terribly out of reach.

Ever since, I find hot women actively painful. Some days they're everywhere, and a source of endless stabs in the heart. Of course I'd prefer to be on the train car with the hot girl -- but it's also torture. I go home feeling terrible and picturing her in my mind.

What's particularly painful for me is that I don't know what I want. I know that I desire, but I really don't know -what- I desire. I'm not sure what would fulfill this craving. There's obviously an element of sexual desire, but I'm not really feeling erotic turn-on. I know what that feels like, and it's not this. I do -not- desperately want to have sex with them; of course I'd do it, but somehow that's not my biggest dream.

I've also had relationships with women I was very attracted to, but that doesn't seem to ease the feeling. I remember being in New York years ago -- had one lengthy bout of sex, maybe half the night. We had breakfast in the park the next morning, and there was an endless series of NYC girls walking by, one knockout woman after another. I had absolutely no sex left in me, but I sat there with an ache in the pit of my stomach.

The sensation is closer to an adolescent crush -- that aching longing, but even with strangers, people I'm just seeing for the first time. It's not necessarily sexual. It's also *visual*: it's the looks. It's not necessarily the touch, or the desire to touch. It's just that they look so goddamn good, and how do you scratch that itch?

Now (esp on this forum!) there's an obvious answer. I've spent a lot of time wondering whether I'm really feeling the desire to *be* these women. But I don't think that's exactly it, either. I -do- remember that, with my first crush, I had a vague sense that I wanted to *be* her (this was 3rd grade). And sometimes, especially when I'm in a strong crossdressing period, I do crave what they're wearing, but that's not always the case -- and it doesn't correlate particularly strongly with the feeling I describe. And somehow this doesn't feel like "it".

The closest thing I have to a gut feel is that: my absolute obsession with female hotness, and the aching desire that comes w/ it, is the *cause* of any crossdressing (rather than the converse) -- it's a desire to get closer to the fire, as it were. But even when I'm at my femme hottest, the ache doesn't feel particularly assuaged. Crossdressing is a turn-on, and exciting, and it's fun, and I crave it ... but it's a sexual thing, and it's fulfilled by climax. And post-climax, I feel feel no desire to be any small fraction of female, I laugh like hell and strip off the clothes ... but if at the same moment I see a picture of a beautiful woman, I still feel the twist in my gut.

This is driving me crazy. I'm sure there's a piece of this that's related to my clothing fixation, and my gender complications. It may be that I'm still craving the unachievable -- even when I have some success w/ women, most of them are still out of reach. Maybe that's it. But regardless I don't know how to fulfill this need.

Does this ring true for anyone else? Thanks in advance!

Erin

[Katey888]

Short answer, Erin - yes it does.

My peaks of CD have coincided with periods of lower sexual interaction - I can fully relate to that painful longing you describe and the need to both do something about it and emulate the source of the longing. It's a fantasy thing, that goes beyond just imagining into a more comprehensive tactile and transformative emulation. It's almost like some of us have a hypersensitivity to females we find attractive.

Good spot Erin! :D Might be more to this straightforward theory... :cheer:

Katey x

[Madilyn A.]

Maybe I missed it, but are you a crossdresser now ? Much of what you speak of hits home with me and many other Cds. That is we were envious of pretty girls, there clothes, there relationships with other girls, as compared to our seemingly drab male lives. If you are not currently crossdressing you are a late bloomer, based on your love of the feminine mystic. I think we need more information to better comment, and offer our two cents.

[mikiSJ]

Being attracted to females and wanting to be one, or present as one yourself are not mutually exclusive. Confusing - yes! Weird - no!

[Jaylyn]

This could explain why so many of our members do more cross dressing when they reach an age where the wife or SO goes thru the lower sexual desire. If it's the woman and the male still has a high sexual drive could it be that he then has a stronger desire to cross dress to emulate what he is missing. I love my wife but she has had a low sex drive at the age of 55 and she is now 62. As her sex drive lowered my cross dressing drive seemed to escalate although unlike when I was in my younger years of cross dressing where every episode ended with a happy ending, now just the desire to dress satisfies my sexual appetite. I still have though a high testosterone level apparently because I love the dressing and seem to dress for longer periods at a time. This is mind boggling.... But it seems feasible to me.

[erindemia]

Definitely a crossdresser! I've had a pantyhose thing since 14, been dressing fully since mid 20s (now 37).

Thanks for the responses, guys. I can't say it corresponds with an older wife, here, but interesting!

Erin

[Wildaboutheels]

You are simply describing Evolution at work and nothing more. A MAN'S V I S I O N is the very thing that enables him to carry out his most basic "programming". To carry on his own DNA. His VISION is the simple way/solution for him to be able to "impregnate as many females as possible" - THE basic programming for males.

A male cannot impregnate any female until and UNLESS he "get's ready". A MAN's vision makes it very easy to accomplish this.

There are very few FtM CDers simply because their VISION does not work the same way. THEY are not excited about the way male clothing articles make them look.

IF you are not familiar with Pavlov and his dogs, you might want to Google it. Apparently almost no one who waters here is familiar with it. Pretty much applies to the vast majority of CDers on the planet...

[Cynthia99]

What?! People don't know about Pavlov?

[erindemia]

Ha! -- I'm thinking about ringing the ball and dogs salivating. Funny, huh?

[Katey888]

IF you are not familiar with Pavlov and his dogs, you might want to Google it. Apparently almost no one who waters here is familiar with it. Pretty much applies to the vast majority of CDers on the planet...

Wild - I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I must respectfully disagree with you... I think there are plenty here who are familiar with Pavlov - Pavlov conditioned his dogs over time - are you saying that we have all conditioned ourselves to respond in this way? Even if that were the case (and I can accept there may be a degree over time) it does not explain the initial trigger that kicks this off. Some CDers were dressed by their parents or grandparents, but not all - so it's also not necessarily conditioning initiated by a third party. I know that my first recollection of CDing was when I was 6 or 7, and - weird as this is - I remember it was an obsession with girls' fluffy acrylic hats that were in fashion at this time (we're talking 1967/68) - this was pre-puberty and no-one made me wear them - where did that come from? You've also used the evolution/ impregnation argument before - I don't believe that's so intuitive that it would impact 6 or 7 year olds as a driver.

No - I think there's more to this than just Pavlovian conditioning. There's too many other complexities that come into play with the development of how we CD, at what stage in life we are, and what we are trying to emulate and why. While you might disagree, I think it's useful we explore other avenues rather than just trotting out the same ideas - isn't your response a bit Pavlovian as well? :)

When Erin tabled the OP it really got me thinking about the correlation between relationships, fantasies, sex and - yes, horror of horrors - m*sturbation :eek: Sex with yourself - I hope you all don't mind me speaking frankly, but if you can form that context in your mind of being both yourself AND your object of desire or fantasy, then doesn't that make the process easier to accept? I agree that link diminishes with age, but not everyone loses that urge at the same stage of life and to me, explains the disparity between individuals here and the type of woman they want to portray. Do you want to be glam or frumpy? It's an individual choice for individual motives, but guess where I am...? :D

I would really like to hear other views on this - I think it's got some legs...

Katey x

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Erin, That sounds like it could apply to a lot of us .

[Kristy 56]

Very interesting post. A lot of what you say definitely could apply to me.

[erindemia]

What I didn't understand about Wild's post -- the Pavlov reference doesn't match the first paragraph, which is all about innate/evolutionarily motivated responses. Which is it? Conditioned or innate?

Either way, not sure it helps. Sure, men are more visual. But if the root cause here is spreading my DNA, then it should be more directly sexual, and what I want should be sex.

I understand my cross dressing impulses in that respect, and Katey, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's the other reaction that I'm confused about.

I did like the reference to salivating, though.

[Amymonroe]

see i do not know about the whole sex drive thing. my so is 40 years old and i'm 39. her sex drive is constant. she wants it more often than i do. i can go months with out sex and it bothers her a lot. so you see i don't think sex drive has anything to do with it. that's just my opinion.

amy

[Jaylyn]

amy. Most women and I'm using my wife as an example had the same happen to her about the time the kids all were leaving our house and getting out on their own. She was in her forties and she wanted sex all the time. She would see a guy at a stop light and wonder what he would be like. She kept me tired, I loved having a sexy goddess at least four to five times a week. This lasted up till the periods stopped in her late fifties. Her Gyno actually said she was the latest one he had ever treated. Then she point blank quit enjoying sex. She complained of dryness, of not being in the mood, etc. I thought she stopped loving me from Hero to Zero in a month. I actually envisioned us in an assisted living home one day being late to dinner because of sex.... I like many men associated her love for me as sex. I still am very active in sex she has quit she will still dress nice but now in clothes that are comfortable not the sexy ones I grew to love on her. I feel sometimes that's why I dress as the **** I am because her sexiness lasted so long. I almost wish my wanting sex would diminish because it can really leave you feeling frustrated just wanting something that is no longer there. As I said before I love my wife and we will grow old together but without cross dressing and seeing the sexy gal I think I am in the mirror I would be frustrated all the time. Wow now I've said too much about me. Maybe I am a Pavlov dog, she rang that bell in front of me for so long that I'm now conditioned.

[Wildaboutheels]

"They" say curiosity killed the cat. I call BULLSH!T.

Curiosity, along with the simple fact that Humans learned to stand and walk on two legs [freeing their hands to make tools] is the ONLY reason we seem to be in control of Planet Earth today.

WHEN one started dressing is irrelevant. It could have been nothing more than simple childhood curiosity. We HUMANS find out stuff by trying, especially when wittle. Is it likely that girls tried on their dad's or brothers stuff also? If they were raised among a passel of men why wouldn't they? Maybe many got hand me down clothes from their brothers. Few women CD after they "come of age". Ignoring the math or implications of this doesn't change the facts. Forum #S verify this.

Combine all the various #s that this site posts, along with the obvious slant of the pic and video gallery, [along with what is OBVIOUSLY missing there [which I did attempt to rectify BTW] the fact that so few FEmales CD, the huge popularity of certain topics and of course all the Os. MALE Os ARE the most addictive things on the planet. They better be. They are what keep us on the planet and Evolution has made them extremely easy for most men. FEmale eggs are needed of course, but Os for them are almost entirely irrelevant to the offspring equation although some recent research has shown that FEmale Os may help steer the sperm in the correct direction.

Oh and BTW, from time to time, some people here will post something to the effect that "it was never sexual for me" when in fact some of their earlier posts say it WAS. Also many of these folks, will, IF asked respectfully in a private email, admit that yes it was sexual "but that was a long time ago".

I have no doubt that some were obviously born in the wrong body and for some it was never sexual. These are likely the ones who transitioned or are in the process or taking steps to one day transition.

IF one has used Female clothing items to get to the promised land a couple of times, or a couple of hundred, or a couple of thousand, it should not take a Rocket Scientist to figure the implications. Even a young child when burned on a hot stove just ONCE will remember that forever.

I feel quite sure that if GGs could get to O land EASIER by wearing clown shoes, clown shoes would be sold alongside batteries, wherever batteries are sold.

And of course let's not forget all those "other" CD sites. Let's also not forget that if one were willing to take the time, they could easily fill an entire page with quotes to the effect of "I could not get out of the clothes quick enough".

Did you know certain Qs are not allowed here [at this Forum] because they are considered INTRUSIVE?

Lastly but certainly not least, the obvious slant of so many here that "I would like to dress and be desirable". Does not matter if it's to women or men or both. Being DESIRABLE is so very easy for women because men are so easily turned on. [It's WHY women have so much more choice in clothing] It's simply a POWER that women have over men. Since very few men get as much sex as they want, the simple "idea" of being "desirable" at all has appeal.

IF men could wear clown shoes, and just by doing so, have women groveling at their feet, just what do you think would happen?

[Beverley Sims]

I did have feelings as you describe in my earlier years but they died out and were replaced by other feelings and interests.

[Alice Torn]

Wow! I must have been on another planet. I have known many women who shun sex, and do not enjoy it, they say, and few that said they liked it. It seems like a necessary evil, to many. And, it seems true, that men need women, more than women need men. Women seem able to spread their wings, and do just find, without men, while men are prone to wanting and needing women more. I have never been married, and i do think Alice is a substitute in a big way.

[Katey888]

WHEN one started dressing is irrelevant. It could have been nothing more than simple childhood curiosity.

IF one has used Female clothing items to get to the promised land a couple of times, or a couple of hundred, or a couple of thousand, it should not take a Rocket Scientist to figure the implications. Even a young child when burned on a hot stove just ONCE will remember that forever.

Lastly but certainly not least, the obvious slant of so many here that "I would like to dress and be desirable". Does not matter if it's to women or men or both. Being DESIRABLE is so very easy for women because men are so easily turned on. [It's WHY women have so much more choice in clothing] It's simply a POWER that women have over men. Since very few men get as much sex as they want, the simple "idea" of being "desirable" at all has appeal.


Wild - I'm now a little confused at the conjectures in your arguments and what point you are trying to make wrt the OP.

You say it's not relevant WHEN someone starts dressing (I was talking about WHY, but let's leave that for now...) - you then go on to justify the Pavlovian conditioned response principle by inferring we become self-conditioned by using clothing to achieve our sexual ends over and over again. I think the WHEN is relevant, because 6 year olds (and probably most 7, 8, 9 year olds) aren't getting anything sexual out of that behaviour - other than - what? It's a nice feeling... That's why I think that part is more complex and relevant.

The last part regarding desirability is also confusing. Are you saying we dress in order to be desirable, in order to get more sex, even if that's only with ourselves?? Or are you implying we (or some of us) want to be deliberately provocative towards the same gender, because we want that attention, and ultimately the power that comes with that? I'm not sure...

Your final assertion that women have more choice in clothing because men are more easily turned on is counter-intuitive. Surely if we were more easily turned on (and I agree we probably are) wouldn't it be rational women wouldn't need to try so hard and therefore there would be less differentiation and choice? I'd expect women's clothing choice to be more closely linked to either: competition for a desirable male (the better you look the more choice you'll get) or, it's just big business - and a male dominated business (from a financial and designer perspective) at that. We put women in these clothes as objects of fantasy and desire - the whole fashion industry is devoted to that and a fair chunk of media around fashion, celebrities, entertainment. It's just big bucks, isn't it?? Isn't it as feasible that we're also tapping into that fantasy and desire thing for ourselves?

I still think there's more to this and it bears more discussion - don't close your mind to alternative ideas and perspectives, please ...?

Katey (big X)

[Marcelle]

Hi Erin,

I don't think what you are experiencing is anything new a lot of gals here have not felt. Your CDing has a strong sexual component and allows you to express that sexuality. Once it is finished, so you (as you noted you laugh and strip off your clothes). This holds true for some but not for others.



IF you are not familiar with Pavlov and his dogs, you might want to Google it. Apparently almost no one who waters here is familiar with it. Pretty much applies to the vast majority of CDers on the planet...

Sorry Wild, I cannot agree that CDing can be explained fully as a conditioning to sexual gratification. If that was the case then I would have given it up once it stopped being about sex and not about being me. Conditioning only works so long as the stimuli is present or can be obtained. Once the stimuli is removed the behavior ceases.


... WHEN one started dressing is irrelevant. It could have been nothing more than simple childhood curiosity. We HUMANS find out stuff by trying, especially when wittle . . . Being DESIRABLE is so very easy for women because men are so easily turned on. [It's WHY women have so much more choice in clothing] It's simply a POWER that women have over men. Since very few men get as much sex as they want, the simple "idea" of being "desirable" at all has appeal.

True we are curious when we are young but that in itself cannot explain CDing . . . curiosity may get a five year old to try on his sister's dress but what keeps him coming back? What is the draw?

I agree that men can get turned on by a beautiful woman (right there myself) however in discussing this with my GG friends, they were adamant that a well dressed man can be very desirable and a huge turn on for them. So the power is not that one sided.

In the end, the sexual gratification achieved by some while CDing cannot be argued (I agree it is present) however I don't agree that is the reason we all do it. It is far too complex to chalk it up to a biological imperative to get my DNA out there.

Hugs

Isha

[Patty-Fay]

The sensation is closer to an adolescent crush -- that aching longing, but even with strangers, people I'm just seeing for the first time. It's not necessarily sexual. It's also *visual*: it's the looks. It's not necessarily the touch, or the desire to touch. It's just that they look so goddamn good, and how do you scratch that itch?.

The closest thing I have to a gut feel is that: my absolute obsession with female hotness, and the aching desire that comes w/ it, is the *cause* of any crossdressing (rather than the converse) -- it's a desire to get closer to the fire, as it were. But even when I'm at my femme hottest, the ache doesn't feel particularly assuaged. Crossdressing is a turn-on, and exciting, and it's fun, and I crave it ... but it's a sexual thing, and it's fulfilled by climax. And post-climax, I feel feel no desire to be any small fraction of female, I laugh like hell and strip off the clothes ... but if at the same moment I see a picture of a beautiful woman, I still feel the twist in my gut.

Does this ring true for anyone else? Thanks in advance!

I have had EXACTLY the same thought, that my incredible attraction to feminine hotness is the source of my crossdressing, and it is definitely a sexual thing for me too.
Regarding the "unachievable" - it seems to me it's not achievable because it's fantasy (the idealized image we have in our head). It's an attraction to the apotheosis of female beauty, not an attraction to all things woman (who fantasizes about having a period or having a baby?)

[AnnieMac]

GG's dress for other GG's. Just like CD's often dress for other CD's . . .case in point, the picture gallery here.

[erindemia]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I think my original point my have disappeared in the midst -- I understand my crossdressing, somewhat, at least. I also get the sexual aspect. It's not as surprising to me.

What I'm confused about is what I feel when I see a gorgeous woman -- and more specifically what I want from her. It's not sex, and I don't think it's (exactly) to be her. I'd just like to know what would satiate the desire I feel.

[Ineke Vashon]

What I'm confused about is what I feel when I see a gorgeous woman -- and more specifically what I want from her. It's not sex, and I don't think it's (exactly) to be her. I'd just like to know what would satiate the desire I feel.

Brazilians have a great word for this desire, this feeling: "Saudade". It doesn't translate but it describes a deep longing, an almost painful desire for someone or something. Can be a person or a place, or even a time. Feelings like these might be difficult, but it proves you're alive and desiring.

Some of the greatest songs have been written about it. I'm thinking of Ray Charles' version of: "Just a girl I used to know."

Ineke

[docrobbysherry]

And, in Mexico the word is, "Sympatico". Which is when the 2 of u interact as one. Not necessarily in a sexual way, either.

Maybe u wish to simply be able to relax, chat openly, and have one of these lovelies as a friend? Personally? I was fairly invisible to women in high school. I've never been good looking as a man. As I got older, I discovered men don't need looks, they need to be successful and act confident to attract pretty women. Since then, I dated a centerfold. (Alcoholic psycho!) I married a showgirl. (Bipolar nut job.) And, I went all the way to Russia a few years ago to meet a female doctor. She was accomplished, absolutely stunning, intelligent, and personable. Not necessarily in that order! After a week, I also found out she was crazier than the other 2 put together! I suggest that u make friends with an attractive woman. You're old enuff to know how to do that. THEN, see if u still wish to hang out/friend/know them. These days? I'm perfectly happy just looking at them.

Since I'm nearly twice your age, I can no longer attract, (nor do I wish to), young, hot women. Instead, I have created Sherry in the mirror image of the younger women I find attractive. Maybe I have the best of both worlds?

[JennyMarie]

Erin,

I know what you describe in the OP is very much me. With the exception that I know there's a larger sexual component to it. I'd agree with others that (for me, at least) it's a fulfilling of a desire. Except for a couple random encounters and a single couple year stretch, my life has been pretty empty and void of females (I am now 31).

As for you specific confusion, I don't have any insight to it.


Wild, Katey, Isha,

I think each of you are right. Right in the "piece of the puzzle" sort of way. After all, couldn't one consider CD'ing as being a large, varied puzzle?

[Wildaboutheels]

Women will have more "power" [especially over men] the more attractive they can make themselves. As well as far greater opportunity out in the RW. [There IS nothing mysterious about this. Even babies will turn toward more attractive faces] I think YOU merely would like to have some of that "power" to be desirable based on nothing more than your looks. I'll bet you don't get that feeling looking at an average or below average woman no matter how well they might be dressed?

[Lucy_Bella]

Wild .

I completely understand your suggestions to the O.P. but many here will not..

Why? Because there are CDers who actually have female brains ( minds way of thinking) and it's impossible ( because they are Cders and have never felt this way) for this to be true ..

Verses those few here who actually find this sort of thing a "turn on"in a sexual way and not so much as to what sex we should have been born as..The O.P. feels this is not erotic and that's okay perhaps erotic is different for some people..But the true definition of erotic seems to fit the O.P. e·rot·ic (ĭ-rŏt′ĭk)
adj.
1. Of or concerning sexual love and desire; amatory.
2. Tending to arouse sexual desire.
3. Dominated by sexual love or desire.

[sometimes_miss]

Erin, I summed up the same things that you felt with this: I wanted to date the girl, and be one, both at the same time. Back in my early high school years, one of my most common fantasies was for a girl I liked to find me with some type of girl clothes, be fascinated, help me dress and become like a girl, and we would become a couple and live happily ever after like that. Odds are, that scenario has occured at least once in the history of the world, so my dream lives on.....so does my dream of winning the lottery, with each having the approximate same odds of happening.