SO thinks kids deserve a better father

[Billiejosehine]

Well sorry for the long rant of thoughts, but it is 2:30 am and I had a not so good conversation with the SO. Leaving me with a lot on my mind and so here I sit writing this tread. It seems things are getting worse by the minute after talking more about the relationship, my CDing, and thoughts about transitioning. Now she tells me that I need to move out like now to give her and the kids sanity, stability, and peace for once because I'm confused as f@*# about who I am. But once I figure out who I am then I'm welcome to come back and be part of their lives. She doesn't want them to deal with my bs and that they deserve better. She tells me I'm selfish because I told her that they are my kids and I don't agree to leaving and then coming back once I figure out who I am. She thinks I used her and abused her by marrying her and having kids while I new I was struggling with my gender identity. That it is unfair to bring children into the world knowing what I struggle with. In reality she doesn't want me to part of their lives because they need a dad and not another mom. When I told her they are my priority she made a comment about how it doesn't seem like it. There's so much more on my mind that I want to say, but I leave at this.

[Maria in heels]

There is a great deal of sorrow and hurt in your relationship with your wife, and your children are going to be affected by it whether you transition or not. Your children will know in the "end" no matter what you do, so I think that its best that you seek counseling hopefully with your wife so that the two of you can come to some sort of agreement or at least an understanding. Please also remember that your wife is very hurt, and that she is facing a new world that makes her uncomfortable...

[Katey888]

I do really feel for you - this is clearly an extremely tense and rapidly developing situation. While I'm not recommending one particular course, I recall breaking up a 15+ year relationship and while there were no kids involved, the only way to get some clarity was to put space between myself and my SO by moving out. It is a valid option and may provide some clarity for you and her - but keep the communication lines open and get help in that if you can.
Wish you the best..
Katey x

[Billiejosehine]

I have tried bring up that we should go to counseling together, but she wants no part. She does tell me she's tired and wants to rebuild a life without me and been wanting this for so long. Apparently she's been sticking around because she wanted a family that she never had and that was at the cost of her own happiness. She had this dream about me right before we got married 5 years ago and choose to not listen to it. She says it's her fault, but she should have listened to her dream.

[Caden Lane]

Billie, it sounds like she has made up her mind, and no amount of talking will change it. If she isn't receptive to counseling, then I would suggest like the others that you step out of the situation, get some therapy on your own, and buckle down for the expanse of changes ahead. Try not to allow the number of changes overwhelm you, isolate them into individual changes, and tackle one at a time.

But I'm sure on some level your children are picking up on the strife in ya'lls relationship. That's no good for them either, just like its no good for you or your wife. The best gift you can give your wife at this point...and yourself, is to get out, focus on you, heal, allow her to heal, and figure out the complexity of your life. But be assertive with her by letting her know that while she may diminish you as a man in her mind, you are still the childrens father, you still have rights, and you cannot and won't be replaced in the role of their father, despite not being her ideal husband. That isn't a "Now" conversation. That's later on after you've retained an attorney for the divorce. Be courteous, even acknowledge that to a degree that you understand that you weren't meant for her because she cannot accept every aspect of you. But let her know that by merit of who you are, your children Love you unconditionally, no matter how you present, unless an outside source taints that Love with bias. Its not the kids fault, and its sad she uses them as such a weapon against you. What we can take from that is; if she will do it now,she will do it later on. So hunker down and prepare for that. But don't fear it or fret over it, prepare for it and allow it to strengthen your resolve and willpower.

[bimini1]

Meditate. Let the answers come from within. Only you know what is best for the family.

[Beverley Sims]

You need to get counseling both marriage and gender as soon as practicable.
On the marriage side do not include children in your problem yet.
It is better left unsaid for now.
Try joint marriage counseling with your wife also.

[kimdl93]

I have to tell you, I'm inclined to agree with your wife. When a marriage is failing, and when a person is emotionally distraught, sometimes a separation allows the tension levels to recede a bit and allows one to calm down and think rationally.

Often, during periods of high emotional stress a person can become obsessed with mulling the same thoughts over and over, they call it ruminating. All too often the ruminations simply further cloud a persons judgement and rationality.

I suggest that you go back over your posts here, all in a row, and then you'll have a sense of all the drama and chaos your wife has endured as you struggled with your problems. Read them, but try for a moment to contemplate them from the perspective of your wife and children.

[rah]

your wife is 100% right, u should either leave them with your tail between your legs and become a girl that u always want to or be a man make that sacrifice and fix your brain (see a psychiatrist) take care of your family, let your kids be proud of there father rather than being ashamed

[PaulaQ]

@rah - you are completely wrong and your message is really hateful.

@billie - I hate to say this, but you need to hire an attorney, and hire them now. It sounds like there are other issues in your marriage, your wife isn't happy, and this is the last straw. You need to protect yourself, now. Distancing yourself from your kids forever, which is what your wife seems to want is not really in their best interests.

You need gender therapy now. If you are an emotional wreck, in the absence of some other problem, you likely need to transition, but only you and a therapist working together can know for sure.

[Angela Campbell]

be a man make that sacrifice and fix your brain (see a psychiatrist)

That is actually considered unethical by the APA. It cannot be done and always results in harm.

In some states reparitive therapy is against the law just for that reason.

[Annaliese]

The sad thing is, it hard to have it both ways, think of it from your wife's point of view. So many of us start out thinking we can control this, and we can stop it at any time. We lie to our self and to our love one as well. Some of us want to trans, but won't because of family, other will make the jump no matter what. I don't know if it is they are more committed to being there true self, ore we are committed to our family happiness, than our own. You need to decide where you are, it not fare to you or your wife. You cant have it both ways.

[Alice Torn]

Billie, I wish that my mom and dad had separated, and divorced 50 years ago, but they kept the emotional living hell going, and poisoned my mind for life. My mom was driven to insanity, and died in 2012. My dad never grew up, is 93, still thinks he has never done anything wrong in his life, to me. I had to break up their fights, and walk on eggshells my whole life, and my dad holds a grudge against me, but expects me to visit him every day in the nursing home, like my evil brother does. He expects worship. I can't stand him. I try and try to forgive him, but he never will admit any wrong. Oh, please do separate, and maybe divorce, if this turmoil is only getting worse, and she will not budge. Your kids will be better off, in a one parent home, without the strife, and arguing, and war. I am not saying you are just like my dad. But it is better to separate, and have some peace, than keep a marriage war going, with little victims. You need an attorney, if you can afford one, to help. Oh, how i wish my mom had left my toxic father, who did not dress as far as i know, but was alcoholic, a tyrannical little spoiled boy, and utterly vain. My mom married him, because she felt sorry for him! Not healthy. Just my two cents, coming from parents who had no business marrying, now being parents. It was, and stil is torture for me.

[Patty F]

My wife knew about my CDing early in our marriage, and the kids came along I did not flaunt it but didn't hid from them either. My oldest daughter knows but doesn't say to much about except for a funny comment once in awhile, my youngest daughter steels my dresses and tops so I guess that answers that.
Good luck and I hope the best for you
Patty

[Jennifer Devine]

Best to be honest at the start if you are involving other people in your life then they can decide whether to accept you or not.
Otherwise it just leads to more worry like you are facing. If she really loved you she would accept you as it says for better or worse in marriage.
Thats why I shall be staying single so there is no comprimise or hurt involved.

[suzanne]

I am sorry to hear that your SO thinks CDing makes you a poor father. It is so unfair and so UNTRUE. I am completely convinced that, since I embraced my femininity and came out to my SO, I am MORE of a complete human being, not LESS of a man. I have no doubt that the same is true of you or anyone in this forum. We as a group are just too big to be jammed into the pigeonhole marked "Man". I hope the is room in your relationship to claim some space for Billie.

[Michelle.M]

your wife is 100% right, u should either leave them with your tail between your legs and become a girl that u always want to or be a man make that sacrifice and fix your brain (see a psychiatrist) take care of your family, let your kids be proud of there father rather than being ashamed

rah - with 40 posts under your belt you clearly haven't been here long enough to understand the issues the members here are facing in real life.

Your opinion is very uninformed. You don't appear to have any knowledge of gender issues, or of the motivations and dynamics of crossdressing (except, perhaps, as they apply to you alone). Your answer was totally ill-conceived, and you ought to refrain from offering advice like that until you have a more well-developed understanding of what the underlying issues are with Billiejosehine, with the membership here and with crossdressers as a community. And, perhaps, with your own gender expressions as well.

[Valerie1973]

Ouch! I read your post. Ouch. I too know sorta what your going through. I have kids and my SO hates my CDing. However, my struggle is different. We all struggle with things. It's not easy to turn it off and just man up and be super dad over night. But that's where she is, the perfect Hallmark family. I love my kids and I signed up to be a husband and father because that's the thing I went after. Guys like us probably have no business being married at all. But the man in me wanted those things. Now what to do? Decisions Decisions. I was told all the same things. Why bring kids in the world, why get married. Your selfish. All those things. The bottom line is we cant be both. You'll just have to see where you are and if she's will let have the kids. At the time we got married to our SO's we were in love with being in love, the "need" to dress was overcome with that. Now reality set in and pressure drives that need. Well for me anyways. I'd say get more involved in your kids lives, what ever it is, games. Let them decide. But be who you need to be. It's better to be hated for who you are than be loved for someone you not. Good Luck Billie.

[Caden Lane]

Rah, we have a responsibility to each other to give safe, supportive, real world advice and support, that does no harm. I'm hoping that you were merely responding emotionally, and dashed off advice that correlated with your own experiences, and that your advice wasn't based on your understanding of your psyche and ours in general.

Billie, I reiterate, seek out marriage counseling, even without your wife. It looks better in court that you attempted to repair the breech in the marriage. Seek gender therapy to help you figure you out. And get an attorney to protect your interests.

[Lorileah]

We have chastised Rah enough, point made. Stick to the OP now

[Katie_Did GG]

It's not the being TG it's all the bloody drama. Please get yourself together with the help of a good gender trained counselor. Once you do you can go back and address the other issues.

I agree you are in no shape to be any kind of a parent mother or father at this point. You are all over the place emotionally and just generally an emotional mess hun. I get that you hurt and I hate that for you. Wouldn't wish it on my worse enemy.

But as the children's mother it is her place to put those kids first. And if that means protecting them from your drama then that is what she is prepared to do. Exposing them to TG issues is one thing exposing them to your confusion and arguments with their mother is another.

As one who has been there do you not realize how often a child feels it is his or her fault that the parents are so miserable? If you love those babies leave and come back when you can be the parent they deserve. And if you cannot put those kids FIRST yes I said first over your needs and wants then keep the hell away from them.

You seem unaware of how wishy washy you are in your own thinking and how you see things. Just a big old black hole of needy aren't you? Jeez Billie. :facepalm: And you seem to think your wife should just know what you are because she found some panties or something. Good grief man it's no wonder she thinks you are cheating you left her to fill in an amazing amount of blanks.

And how in the Sam hell is your wife supposed to know how to help or support you in any way since you can't even decide what you really want. Oh except to be able to run wild and do as you please and to hell with her or the children.

God save us from self serving stupid unthinking sods. I have been reading your threads and I'm ready to :gg: you myself I cannot imagine how your wife has not been at least tempted to shake some sense into you.

I like to think I have an open mind and that I am compassionate but you would try a saint my dear.

[rah]

hey everyone has there own opinion i didn't mean to harm any1 and i am sorry if i was rude


I'm a child of divorce

[Nadine Spirit]

After reading thread after thread by you, I have come to the conclusion that your relationship has some serious problems that really have nothing to do with cross dressing. It sounds as if your wife is using CDing though as an excuse to separate. Unfortunate.

[Jocee]

Not much else to add, except I feel for you!

[Kate Simmons]

As others have said, I think counseling would be beneficial, perhaps couples counseling initially. Both partners going in opposite directions is not conducive to a good relationship. :)

[Jill Devine]

Billie I have no extra advice for you but want to send you good vibrations and positive energy
I pray you find peace of mind.

[KayleeTaylor]

Billie, you need to leave your wife and kids. Come to a mutual agreement of some kind where you would still be allowed some time with your kids - as long as you keep your kids away from your drama. I am sure your wife didn't want to marry a woman. She needs to start looking for a man again and start a new life without you.

Your only option is to leave her on good terms so you can still see your kids.

Sorry to see you and your family suffer. I hope you do the right thing.

[Billiejosehine]

Katie while what you have said does make a lot of sense: drama and being an emotional mess and all over the place. I have and will always put my children first, they are part of me and my life. What I'm going through has not interfered with me being a father. In fact my daughter is a daddies girl, always going to me for things instead of her mother. My SO even calls her a traitor for the simple fact that she comes to me to give hugs and kisses. While my SO has to ask for hugs and kisses and my daughter only does it when I say something. I know I am a great parent and will always be in whatever capacity that is and I will protect them no matter what.

There would be no way I would leave out of their lives, no matter what I'm going through, again the things I struggle with makes no difference in being a loving parent and have never treated them in any bad way. I also feel that by not being part of their life will be a lot worse for them in the long run. My SO's father did that to her so, she is angry and has no relationship with him.

It may seem from past post that I look wishy washy and that may be true to some degree, but imagine being under so much distress with everything coming at you from all angles; while dealing with emotions that have been surpressed your whole life. So I have been going back and forth wanting everything because I was afraid to loose this part of myself and the life I created. Yet I still stay positive and hold a brave face. I'm lot strong then what most people think; especially with all that I have been through in my own life. I am being to come to some acceptance of who I am and what I really want. But it's like tearing down an ego that wants to survive

My SO has always been supportive of me, but has reached her limit in doing so. That's why even couples counseling will be out of the question. She has never thought that I cheated, but stated that if I was and the clothes were somebody else's, then she would have left a long time ago. The topic of CDing and wanting to be women has come up several times before and does not condone me, but can't accept it either. Which is fair and she is entitled to how she feels and I'll never disregard her feelings. So it's not like I expect her to know by finding things here and there.

I honestly know what I want, it's just a hard choice to make because that means change in a lot of areas of my life. And just because I struggle with who I am as a human being; just like everyone else on earth that struggles with something, does not mean I'm a self serving stupid unthinking sob.

[sandra-leigh]

Billie, as long as there has not been any violence or threats of violence, do not move out until you have talked to a lawyer: in some states it would be viewed as abandonment or would influence who gets the house in a settlement.

[Alice Torn]

KatiedidGG, You are so right, in that children often blame themselves for parent unhappiness. I did, and i all my life sabotaged every good opportunity, and relationship,, not wanting to look better than my miserable parents. My dad did blame me a lot. None of my parents kids are married or have a SO. A pattern. Never make kids believe they are the reason for your unhappiness. I have tried all my life to please my dad, and fix him. He respects nothing i say, much, and i burned myself out in life.

[Billiejosehine]

Today things got even more ugly between me and future ex after work. I came home to find she took the day off to clean and pack all my stuff. She also went out of her her way to show my mother in law all my women's clothes. The first thing she says to me was that I need to leave the house because I'm not allowed there anymore. And it looks like things are going to get worse and be a bitter war with her. She throws the whole CDing and gender identity in my face, a reason for me not to be part of my children, and try and use it against me in court. What's sad is that my son asked me if I going to a new house because my ex said I had to leave. My ex who saw sitting near by said something about me leaving, he started to walk away saying he didn't want me to leave crying. She tells me she's in charge of things are going to go and I need to be careful or it's going to get ugly and she will make sure I loose everything. So it looks like I'm going to consult with an attorney tomorrow. As the old saying goes when it rains it pours.

[Ellie52]

Billie - Im probably going to regret saying this as Im going to get flamed for it but sometimes Honesty is the best policy. I mean no harm to anyone but would like to state my opinion along with everyone elses.
What we are - xdressers is NOT normal in our society. We are classed as deviants and not socially acceptable by a lot in the community. (look up womens blogs on Yahoo etc relating to CD's to see how people think. There are plenty of them) Until everyone here realizes that inside our little forum community we can be our little miss perfects but our family and friends and neighbors and work colleagues probably don't see us that way and they cant all be wrong. Your SO is obviously feeling hurt and betrayed and I think we should all put ourselves in her shoes (no pun intended). Counseling is obviously the best way and Legal advice. I hope for your future it all works out, but sadly most times it wont as we cant give up the enjoyment of wearing women's clothes (and were selfish) and women cant accept why we want to as they have been brought up to think it is aberrant behavior bordering on perverted..Just saying.Just remember what were doing ISNT illegal but it could be classed as detrimental to the welfare of the child.....Ellie

[Angela Campbell]

Get a good lawyer. In California the courts will not be interested in you being transgender and that will not likely be an issue. You will get visitation with your kids.

[Vanessa Rose]

Do not do anything without consulting with an attorney. In certain states if you leave the house it will be abandonment. Also, it is not up to her to determine if you should see the kids. Your crossdress ing may or may not be a problem but before we talk about feelings and opinion, STOP AND GET LEGAL ADVICE NOW!

Why would I know, because I have first hand knowledge. Get facts and this will empower the right decisions, the right way to disarm your spouse, and get the courts involved to ensure the spouse is not impacting the children with nonsense.

Also go to the top five best attourneys in town so they are blocked from representing your spouse. Then act civil, use the court to protect your rights and the kids and learn what you can do to bolster your case which I would suggest if your spouse knows about this, or Facebook and such you will want to am cease and desist.

Message me if you need but don't listen to anyone but a top notch attorney and get in there first.

Vanny

[cdmorganashley]

i've never been married, but my parents got divorced, and while it was hard for me as a child i knew they always loved me and that i was a top priority in their lives as they lived in the same town and saw me frequently and were involved in my life... although it is not usually gender identity, lots of things cause marriages to have trouble, but if you are truly committed to your kids (and wife?) show them how much they are a priority to you by being there for them even during these difficult times... if you have to move out to figure things out for yourself it doesn't mean you have to stop being a part of their lives... one way or another, i would seek counseling from someone who deals with these issues as a professional as it is a lot to figure out... anyway, things happen in life and this doesn't make you a bad parent, just remember that your children need you in their lives wherever you might be living, and my feeling is that their well being should be your top priority even while you figure things out--good luck with your situation, i don't think being a dad or a mom matters as long as there is love...

[Julie Gaum]

From the get go, IMHO, I do brush aside all the well meaning advice --- including counseling that might be useful after the other matters are cleaned up --- and fully side with Paula and Nadine. All the inital context reiterated your wife's feelings of what she wanted from a marriage and the kids were never part of it. You have the satisfaction to know that this union was never intended to be --- Cding and children notwithstanding. There apparently is no sincere emotion on her side so don't get further wrapped upin feeling sorry for her or yourself. One goal only --- legal advice to find and do what's the best action needed to, in the long run, assure your relationship and the well being of your children and please move on after that goal is attained.
Julie

[Marcelle]

Hi Billie,

You have posted a lot on this subject and it really comes down to a few things IMHO. Firstly you are an emotional roller coaster and very confused about things in general and your gender identity. Sometimes you talk about CDing and later talk about being TS. Sweetie, you need the assistance of Gender Identity Therapist to bring order to chaos and find out where you truly fall along the TG spectrum. Until you can decide that, you are going to be in a state of flux and to be honest, we (the community) cannot provide you advice on where you sit with regards to gender identity. We can relay personal experience but that is us and we are all different. I also suspect there are other issues floating around in your background and a good therapist may be able to help you through that. This will get you sound, happy with yourself and prepare you for what is ahead.

Regarding your wife . . . I am going to go out on a limb here and say I think the relationship was over long before CDing took front and center. From your posts, I got the feeling there was strife before you came out and this is now the catalyst to move things forward. From this thread it appears you are "being ordered out". Got it and I believe the gracious thing is to bow out and collect yourself . . . it is no good for the kids to see mom and dad in a knock down drag out scream fest. However, your wife does not have the immediate right to deny you access to your children that has to be court ordered. If you cannot work out amicable terms to see your children while you work through this, then I highly recommend that you hire a lawyer sooner than later. Throwing CDing in your face as a reason to deny access to your children holds not merit as you are doing nothing illegal . . . again hire a lawyer as we (unless there are attorneys on this site) cannot provide sound legal counsel.

In the end sweetie, if you do hope to move forward the surest road to success would be to get yourself grounded and focused. You are not in a proper frame of mind to deal rationally with this IMHO. Back away graciously, hire a lawyer to act on your behalf (at the very least discuss options) and move forward with counselling. While CDing cannot be used as an excuse to deny you access to your children, if you go to court in an irrational and emotional state, that may be enough to limit your access.

Hugs and good luck sweetie

Isha

[Caden Lane]

Bill ie, I might tender this bit of advice, but it also depends on where you live if it would even be admissable. But try to record her rants, even if they mention your crossdressing. The rants you want most are where she claims authority over the children, and telling you that you won't see them. Something else to record would be where she mentions you leaving, so you can defend yourself against abandonment charges by her attorney. I hope your attorney consult goes well today, just be honest with them so they can properly formulate a defense against her tirades. My heart goes out to you. I know this isn't easy.

[Madilyn A.]

I am very sorry to hear about the home situation. Hopefully at some point your SO comes to the realization that you have tried like many of us to change and "kick the habit". Hoping marriage would be the thing to rid you of your Cding and desire to transition. But as we all know, it doesn't change how we are, we can't change and turn or backs on our true inner selves. Good luck.

[donnalee]

I am sorry about your situation, but one question here has gone begging.
If SHE's the one who's unhappy in the marriage, why should YOU be the one to move out?? Tell her you have no intention of moving out, and suggest she move out instead. California courts are against sexual discrimination and any court will tend to rule in your favor. You are not the bad guy here; don't allow yourself to be pushed around like this. Run this by an attorney, if you can, but don't move an inch; don't let her push you around.

[Caden Lane]

I was wondering if California would be more liberal in that regard or if they would have aharsh stance where her descrimination is concerned.

[Vanessa Rose]

My understanding is the court will not deny visitation unless you are a drug addled, physically abbusive brothel owner and your kids serve drinks to the customers!

Really ask an atty directly it will cost you 250 - 500.00 and you have facts from a qualified professional!

I'm raw from a divorce and want people to know that when you have facts you have power, when you duct act civility you own the courts and that especially applies to children.

Just trying to help. It is a phone call and a check....you can rest easier :doh:

DO NOT MOVE OUT UNTIL YOU TALK TO AN ATTORNEY.


Bill ie, I might tender this bit of advice, but it also depends on where you live if it would even be admissable. But try to record her rants, even if they mention your crossdressing. The rants you want most are where she claims authority over the children, and telling you that you won't see them. Something else to record would be where she mentions you leaving, so you can defend yourself against abandonment charges by her attorney. I hope your attorney consult goes well today, just be honest with them so they can properly formulate a defense against her tirades. My heart goes out to you. I know this isn't easy.

Don't record rants. It is so against the law you could get in MAJOR TROUBLE. What you can do is record conversations that you have with her in some instances. You MUST remain calm, not show or act angry and speak calmly. Never argue around kids court will or could eat you up.

DONT DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU SEE AN ATTORNEY.

[Megan70]

In my personal opinion she is RIGHT. We CDs don't want to face reality that we are in fact some of the most selfish people there is and are so consumed by our will in dressing, desires and obsession that we can forget ther are others involved in this too that are affected by our actions. I've experienced it myself but after 40 years have a loving understanding wife. But I've heard dozens of times (from her) "don't say it doesn't affect you, because it does, there are others in your life too, but you forget that." Shes right.

[Caden Lane]

Well, that's why i said depending on where you live. In some States, only one party of a conversation has to know that a conversation is being recorded. In other states all parties have to know or there has to be full disclosure. Yes an attorney would best be able to advise either for or against recording. But I assure you I wasn't giving blanket advice. [I just checked my old law books, California HAS adopted two party consent laws. So that idea is out. But having a witness to her rants IS admissable. Just find someone willing to testify to what they see and hear.


Don't record rants. It is so against the law you could get in MAJOR TROUBLE. What you can do is record conversations that you have with her in some instances. You MUST remain calm, not show or act angry and speak calmly. Never argue around kids court will or could eat you up.

DONT DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU SEE AN ATTORNEY.

[Vanessa Rose]

Perfectly put.... I am not trying to get anything across except see an atty

Start there - see an atty. Who knows what you do and don't have to worry about? But wouldn't it be nice to know what you truly have to worry about.

Unknowns or loss of control are what makes you spaz! When you get professional atty advice some of that could just flutter away or not. But you will never know asking here.

For the first time in a while, focus on helping you so you can be with the kids.

Vanny

[Caden Lane]

I've been on the attorney bandwagon since my first post on this thread. LoL

[Megan70]

She may be "right", but her tactics are dirty, and her approach foul and vile. Perhaps even evil.
Agreed! words are one thing, actions and threats are another. You're right on that one

[Vanessa Rose]

I have a 50,000 atty bill to prove I don't know what I was doing based on what I think. On the other hand it was money WELL SPENT. YEOUCH !

But don't my upper frontal additions look sensational (wink).

[melanie206]

Yes, you need to lawyer up, fast. But, to those who say you need to get out because you are a CD or whatever, I say back off and don't project your closet mentality toward others. Billie, you should see a counselor in order to sort out your feelings and realize you can't be ruled by others negative and defective points of view.

[Billiejosehine]

This is getting serious as she decided to call the police because she was not getting her way. When on the phone she sinter me as a bad person causing all this chaos, yelling and screaming only by me, her monos diabetic, said that concerned about everyone's safety, and that they came her last year because of my mental breakdown and suicidal thoughts. The police came and could not do much except know if I was in the right sate of mind pertaining to last year, and what I am going to do because he doesn't want to be called again. I can tell my ex is not happy about that. The other major issue is that her brother brother in the past threatened to beat my butt, throw me out, and not care if he goes to jail; and he's coming over tonight. Her mom threatened to kick my butt and has no problem going to jail. This is all because I'm not doing what my ex wants; whose trying to be on control.

What I love most is that for an hour when my children were supposed to be in bed. Is that they kept coming into the living room to be with me more then usual. At one point my ex got mad because of this.

I do have so say I did get thoughts of suicide even when I was telling myself I would not. I did call the crisis center the same place I went to last year. After talking on the phone with the person they said I had my head on shoulders and thinking rationally. In all this chaos from last night I may have come unglued emotionally, but I was still collected, and calm in my approach. She was the one going all crazy and projecting it on me. She tried to get reactions and didn't she would get in my face more, telling me how things are going to be. I never stood up for myself in this marriage to took all the emotional abuse and try to do what she wanted. Now that I'm not doing that she's been reacting in a negative way.

I have written comments and threats down to share with my attorney whom my mom found that also is very knowledge about gender identity issues.

[DonnaT]

Good to hear your kids don't want you to leave (I was about to ask).

Due to the ongoing threats, try to obtain a restraining order to keep your brother in law and mother in law away from you, and the house.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/1260.htm

Be the first to take such action, don't let your wife think of it first.

[Vanessa Rose]

Good to hear your kids don't want you to leave (I was about to ask).

Due to the ongoing threats, try to obtain a restraining order to keep your brother in law and mother in law away from you, and the house.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/1260.htm

Be the first to take such action, don't let your wife think of it first.

Right on Donna T!!!!

[Lorileah]

Get a good lawyer. In California the courts will not be interested in you being transgender and that will not likely be an issue. You will get visitation with your kids.


Do not do anything without consulting with an attorney. STOP AND GET LEGAL ADVICE NOW!


I think the relationship was over long before CDing took front and center. However, your wife does not have the immediate right to deny you access to your children that has to be court ordered. I again hire a lawyer




Yes, you need to lawyer up, fast. .

This is the best advice...do it now, run don't walk...she has already started building her case you are behind now

[Caden Lane]

I'm sorry to read that things are deteriorating so quickly. I think most of hoped you'd be able to stay there until you talked to an attorney.

I wholeheartedly agree about the restraining orders. At some point you may need to make it clear to her that it is a direct result of her attempts at manipulating the situation and involving her family who were a direct threat to your safety. But she does come off as a bit of a manipulator.

[Ellie52]

In my personal opinion she is RIGHT. We CDs don't want to face reality that we are in fact some of the most selfish people there is and are so consumed by our will in dressing, desires and obsession that we can forget ther are others involved in this too that are affected by our actions. I've experienced it myself but after 40 years have a loving understanding wife. But I've heard dozens of times (from her) "don't say it doesn't affect you, because it does, there are others in your life too, but you forget that." Shes right.
Megan. I coouldnt have said it better myself......Totaly agree...E

[kendra_gurl]

Seems this has been brewing for a very long time. Now your wife has taken the first step to ending it. So be it, one of you had too. You want to transition and she will never ever stay married to you if you do

The situation now is not a pi**ing contest to see who needs to leave the house. YOU DO FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS.

Seek the counseling you desperately need as has been suggested.

Seek out the advice of an attorney.

Do it for the safety of your children's hearts and mind.

Do it for your own safety from members of her family

Do it to stop the drama until everyone involved is represented by professionals who can keep some sort of sanity to the conversations.

At the very least you may just find living alone for a little while with all the freedom you will have to be the woman you think you want to become just might not be what you really wanted after all.

Hope a month from now you and she can both agree on the best way to solve this amicably because no matter what the outcome of your marriage is, when children are involved your ex will be a part of your life for the rest of your life.

[Diversity]

Sorry to hear this and all the stress and hard feelings you both are living with. May I suggest that you meet with a professional therapist, who specializes in CD and transgender issues? It may be what you both need for each other and especially for your children. I wish you all good luck.
Di

[Patty-Fay]

I'll reiterate Kendra's comment: avoid a pissing contest. No one wins, and the kids are the biggest losers.


For perspective, I'll sketch my story. It has nothing to do with crossdressing, but IMO that's an irrelevant detail at this point. My wife and I fought over the kids throughout their childhood. I took her to court several times for denying me visitation, and I "won." I even forced her to go to counseling with me, a truly hollow victory - because counseling only helps those who seek help. The outcome: when my older boy was 14, he refused to come see me, and went wild; - - dropping out of school and getting into drugs (he's 31 now, sitting in a jail cell because of a 3rd DUI and heroin possession).

You need to concurrently get a lawyer and a counselor. The lawyer will ensure you get what your legally entitled to, but the counselor is needed to give you a perspective on what is best for the kids. Don't be afraid to lose something, if it avoids the tug of war that everyone loses. Your CD/TG issues should be treated as a background fact of life, non-negotiable, and no need to discuss with your wife or her lawyer ( if it's a factor in her wanting to leave you, then this becomes moot once the decision to leave is made). What needs to be discussed are the kids (who they'll live with, and what sort of visitations the other will have), and finances (splitting up what you have, and the providing of financial support for the care of the kids).

[Aprilrain]

The situation now is not a pi**ing contest to see who needs to leave the house. YOU DO FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. .

This is really unqualified legal advice. The OP needs to get an attorney before she does anything! leaving the house (her house) could put her at a serious legal disadvantage.

The OPs wife is behaving in an immature, hostile and entitled way and should not be rewarded for it.

[kendra_gurl]

April: leaving a hostile environment ( police have been called and a brother in law headed over later who has made previous threats) to seek the professional help that has been suggested is not legal advice I agree. IT'S JUST COMMON SENSE.
We are only hearing a very abbreviated account of the way the OPs wife is behaving. Again it's not a pissing contest about who gets the freaking house.

I cannot imagine a judge or anyone punishing one spouse for spending a couple nights in a motel while the dust settles



OKay I just saw the OP's newest thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?208148-Let-the-journey-begin.

Does anyone else think things are either being way over exaggerated or that the OP is not being honest with us

[StephanieJ]

Get a good lawyer. In California the courts will not be interested in you being transgender and that will not likely be an issue. You will get visitation with your kids.

As someone who has been through almost the exact same thing recently I have to agree with that statement. I also have a few bits of advice:

1) Get a lawyer! I guarantee that neither of you will be happy with what the courts decide, so if divorce is inevitable (and it sounds like it is..) try and come up with your own realistic terms.

2) Take the high road. Don't be vindictive and never let your kids hear you speak negatively about their mother. Fifty percent of their DNA came from her after all and if you bash her, you are bashing them. (This is something I feel strongly about!!!)

3) Spend as much time with your kids as possible. They love you and you love them. Don't abandon them just because their mother is being unreasonable.

4) The last thing is to give it time. Right now, it seems like the world is about to end, but there IS life on the other side of divorce and it's actually not a bad life at all. In that new world, your will be happier and your being transgender will become a separate and more manageable issue.

Hugs,
Steph

[Billiejosehine]

As of today I have been finding places to live, filed for legal separation, restraining orders to stop the hostility. I'm not going to let threats from anyone affect me mentally and in doing what is right. Last night I stayed away from the house because the brother was coming over. I instead went to a spiritual support group, hung out with some friends, and praying to get myself re-centered; which is why a new thread I created is written in the way it is. I know what I must do, I know what I want to do. My children come first and I'm not allowing a hostile environment affect me because my health and safety are important.

[Dawn cd]

There are plenty of instances of parents who crossdress and even transition yet still remain loving and effective parents for their children. There's no reason to believe you can't do the same, as long as you commit yourself to it. Your SO's claim that CDs make bad parents simply isn't true. She may be using that argument as a way of expressing her own fears and anxieties. You may not be able to change her views, but if you must separate, do it carefully. Don't leave a poisoned atmosphere behind that could become a wall between you and your kids.

[Michelle789]

@rah - What you said is really insensitive and the worst thing you can say to someone who is suffereing from serious gender dysphoria. I'm sorry call out rah again but this is very personal to me since I've BTDT with someone who I thought would help me told me to "man up" and those words only made things worse.

@Billiejosehine - I'm really sorry about your situation. If anyone tells you to "be a man" or to "man up" just ignore it, and if it causes you stress please call someone, email, PM, post, do whatever you have to do to get help - do not let words like this get to you. It's awful to be told anything along the lines of being a man when you have serious gender dysphoria. You don't have to allow yourself to suffer any more because of GD or because of insensitive words that trigger GD.

And follow other's advice - get a lawyer, protect yourself, seek counseling and begin taking steps towards transition or whatever is needed to treat the GD.

[Shellycd12]

Billie,

I am very sorry to hear about your situation.
There is a lot of great advice here so i will not add anything except i agree with the marriage counseling.

Good Luck,

Shelly

[Patty-Fay]

Billie - Do keep us informed as matters progress. We're pulling for you and praying for you!

[Billiejosehine]

You know I'm Bipolar and my emotions have been taking me on a wild ride, so if you read my past post and threads, it may seem like in all over the place; typical of a person who is bipolar. Emotion are in control of you; especially when you have depression and anxiety added to the mix. What I may have been dealing with has some serious GD that has never been felt with since I was a child.

I went to a therapy session and during that time I mentioned some things I never considered before: 1. When I was 7 months I was drawn to things a girl would be drawn to, 2. I was always mistaken as a girl because I had a feminine beauty about me( my hair was super curly and had a strawberry blonde color 3. Kids in elementary always made comments about how my eyelashes looked like a girls or I walked like a girl. 4. My mom talked about when she was pregnant with me and my father joked with another guy about being intimate with them; that same person later tried to crawl in bed with my mom and dad, but he freak out saying it was not the time because the guy was ruining it. 5. My father dressed up as a female waitress during Halloween and CD before I was born. 6. My step mom walked in front of me in a bra and underwear when I was about 6 or 7. 7. There was several times during that same age when my step mom painted my finger nail with clear nail polish as well as my fathers. And 8. I would often walk around the house at a young age with balloons under my shirt to create the effect that I had breast and was pregnant. I'm sure there's lots more I need to look at, but that is a start. What gets me is that my father and step mom have issues with me CDing and that I am taking steps become the women I feel I am; when I learned about the things they did and to me. But as of today, I'm in a better place and hopefully it stays that way moving forward. I'm sure I will still have my moments, but I will keep myself collected.

When I really look at things I am amazed at how much support there is around me, but with being so warped up in all that's going on right now; I couldn't see that. My sister, my mom, a family friend all have a lot of connections in the LGBTQ community. Also two friends of my moms are writing a dissertation on GD and their transitions. My mom is also a part of this Christian support group that was founded the LA chief of police that came out as gay and is the first openly gay chief of police. My moms cousin whom I'm friends with on FB is gay. I even have this great forum were I can get great advice and connect with those who share similar experiences. Thank you by the way for all the great responses on my thread. Even though I thought I was alone, I'm really not.

I'm just going keep my head up, take one step at a time each day and before I know it, I will have reached my destination.

[Katie_Did GG]

Seriously :confused:< at only 7 months old you were drawn to things a girl would be drawn to!? 7 months. Wow. You have an excellent memory Billie. Yes sir / ma' am. Just excellent.

kendra_gurl I whole hearted agree with your point after reading the same new thread.

:BS:

[Billiejosehine]

I do not appreciate your condescending tone, if you don't have nothing nice to stay don't say anything at all. Did I trigger a something that you gone through and are angry about still? What other reason why you write such a response? You know, of course I can't remember things at 7 months, this is something I was told by my mother. Now if you really read my last post, I said I mentioned some things I never considered. Did I say anywhere in my post...I remember when? I'm only human and I deal with things just like anybody else that is alive. I have feeling and emotions and I come here as a place to share my thoughts as I go through them. Sure maybe when I'm in highly emotional state I could be over exaggerating, but I write what I perceive. And each person who reads my threads and post or anybody else's for that matter will come to their own conclusion on what they read. Remember that 94% of communication is non verbal, so you are missing a whole lot of info when you just read text. So I'm sorry if you feel that I am either exaggerating or not being honest and BSing. You of course are entitled to your opinions. Let me ask you one thing, have you CDed or feel that you were or had the desire to be the opposite sex? If not, do you really know what I go through and struggle with, other then from an outside experience of seeing someone else go through it?

[Marcelle]

Hi Billie,

This post has been taking a serious beating on all levels but a lot of the advice is very sound. I read you are now out of the house and somewhere else so that is a done deal. I read you are in therapy (good to hear). What I don't read is you looking for a good divorce lawyer . . . sweetie, you need one and you need one sooner than later. I don't want to harp on this but your relationship does not seem to be a place where you and your wife can come to amicable divorce terms, you need legal advice. Secondly, you need to get your emotional state under control. I know I said this before but it needs to be said again. I am not sure about the laws in the US but in Canada, being TG is not grounds to be denied access to your children. However, it is likely that if your wife hires a lawyer they will go after your emotional state and that is enough to not deny but only get supervised visits. Who is in the house or not in the house is really noise . . . IMHO you leaving was wise (for safety reasons - wife's brother) and also demonstrates that you have the children's interest in mind (no sense in mom and dad yelling all the time in front of the kids).

Sweetie, we are hear for support and sounding board for sure but you need to get professional legal advice now and I don't know how much more directly I can put that. Let your lawyer deal with the pending divorce and you concentrate on getting well emotionally.

Hugs

Isha

[Vanessa Rose]

If it means anything I remember music and sensations that my parents claim I must only have been around a year old. I can remember the music, what I saw and innocent kid logic terror.

I give her the benefit of the doubt. On the same note, is there not a psychologist/psychiatrist in the lot here that can provide factual information about how early we can have feelings such as this or keen awareness arise. I am a voice of one, and the OP makes our sample an n=2. Not much outside interesting anecdotal.

On another more important note Billie, I echo Isha's thoughts. We are here to listen and hopefully help. Ware posting here vs many other threads because of our concern and want to help in some way get through this time. Deep breaths, we are posting because we care about your situation. We are not perfect either.

Speaking of not being perfect (Lord help me)that I need to re-do my nails. I am a butcher at this at times. It looks as if I tied a nail brush to a chickens foot and did my nails last time. Sheesh

Hoping all goes better today for you Billie !!!!!!!!

Vanny

[Billiejosehine]

I am working with self help from the courts and if I have an attorney (to expensive) they can't help. But I know that I may need someone to represent me if I go to court, so I'm not completely disregarding that option. So I'm still looking and talking various lawyers. I know my SO is trying to use the fact that is take meds (she does to), I have had thoughts of suicide in the past, and I went to an in/out patient program; so I will have the label major depression with no psychosis follow me around for the rest of my life. I only had a mental breakdown because of my SO and how things in my life drove me there. Me not dealing with I truly am drove me there. I feel more stable then I was a few days ago and I have reached the same emotional state that got me to an in/out patient program. I not allowing myself to go there again, but I know the SO is very manipulative and is trying to drive me to that state of mind. That's why I left out of the home and doing things the right way. What is going on has not impacted in living my life as normal, such as going to work. There's a couple people who I hangout with and we confide in each other. They actually told me I was brave, strong, and that I'm still at work with a smile on my face. In still going to my clients homes, which are children, to work on their behavioral goals.

I have not talked to my children since Wed. afternoon when I came home real quick for lunch. When my lunch break was over and I was driving away to go to another clients home, both looking out the front window watching me leave. My son was yelling out the window that he loves me. I tried calling the SO's phone a few times since then leaving a voicemail and text, but I never got a response until I got a text at 9 last night. It said they were eating dinner and they were on the phone with her grandmother. She was going have them give me a call later, but that never happened.

[Aprilrain]

if you think having a lawyer is expensive try NOT having one!

OK so its been a few days and things have calmed down a bit? Its up to you but I would not let your wife kick you out of your house and keep you from your children, thats just me. It sets a precedent that you really don't want to set. If she doesn't want to be around you then thats her deal, she can go get her own place. I think its only fair that the one who wants to end the marriage should be the one to leave.

The biggest mistake I see TS woman make is to take on all the blame for a failed marriage. It takes two to tango and your wife has already displayed some really immature, unreasonable and entitled behaviour. don't let her bully you, which is what she is doing.

[Angela Campbell]

It sounds to me like you really do not understand what will happen to you if you do not get a lawyer. A GOOD one.

My first wife got the house, she got everything in it, 1 of the kids - I got 2, and I had to pay her my entire pay less $200 a month for me and the 2 kids I had. I had to pay that for years and years. We had to live on $200 a month. Miss 1 payment and go to jail. And I did have a lawyer. She had a better one.

[Billiejosehine]

Financially I'm in a good place and from the advice I have received from the self help at the courts and what I researched; because my SO makes three times as much as me, we spend equal time already with the kids, and I filed for joint, and when I get my own place. I will not have to pay child support, but she have to pay that to me. Also she could pay spousal support, but I'm not the type of person to do that to her. I'll let the courts decide what happens.

In the last couple day I have been sending text to her and today she sent a message saying that I sound so different, she wants what's best for the children, and that she hopes everything gets resolved in the best way possible for everyone involved. This is a good thing and tells me that things have calmed down, now it's time to keep it that way and keep the tension down.

[Angela Campbell]

Don't get too comfortable with that scenario.

[Billiejosehine]

I'm definitely considering all possibilities and keeping myself prepared.

[Vanessa Rose]

I will get flack for this but it must be said.


Don't get lulled into conversations with your soon to be ex-wife. She may be back peddling to make up ground that she lost with all the shenanigans. This is a HUGE deal in the court and thusly, don't communicate about the case or legal issues personally, but focus on the children. Let your lawyer do your positioning with your thoughts whilst you are giving them guidance.


Again, do not position yourself or make statements about what you want or don't want to your wife. Don't answer these e-mails or engage these conversations ever!!!!! Let your lawyer drive positioning because whatever you write or say now, can and will be used against you. From what I have gathered, she/family acted towards you in a rather hostile manner. If so, I can almost assure you, any kindness now is false or self-serving for her side. Her intentions, were clearly expressed before you sought a lawyer. Only you know if the comments were hateful...I don't want to go there...


At this time, the only communication I had with my ex, and it drove her nuts,was about the children. Keep them the sole focus... Focusing on the children gives you common ground about what is important and in my situation, helped de escalate some significant issues like you are experiencing. This is about being civil, not fighting in front of the children, not writing or saying A THING THAT YOU WOULD NOT MIND MENTIONED IN COURT OR DURING YOUR DEPOSITION.


Believe it or not, when possible show kindness. I know this is hard to imagine, but when you are irate, don't say anything. If you want to rage at her, use the 48 hour rule or pass by what you are going to say to your lawyer... by the 48 hour grace period, you will feel much different than you do when you want to rage.

If you can and need to record, do according to the laws in your state. Not to entrap, but to capture whatever issues are real vs. pretend during court / deposition. I did not record a thing in my situation because I eliminated the issues. If what they claim is not written down, or recorded, it is largely not proof (but you are obliged to tell the truth under the law). Let me tell you, when we went to court, THEY put THEIR OWN CAN OF WHOOP ASS, ON THEIR OWN CLAIMS, based on my actions, their actions and how we stayed clear of the trouble they did not.


I spent a small fortune (in my humble opinion) however, I was told that I was the ideal client, I have money (not much now...Ha), intelligent (debatable if you ask certain beautiful moderators - still dressing the wounds and applying meat to my face due to past reprimands) and always thought about positioning in court vs. the opposing side. In the end, the kids came out ahead and although people say and I tend to agree, that no one wins in a divorce, I came out as good or better than i planned. I came out with a fair result. IMPORTANTLY, if CD'ing is an issue in the court for some reason, your behavior, comments, communication and actions in front of the kids, should be in my opinion, flawless.


I want to state this again.......Don't do, write or say anything that YOU would not want to admit to in court. She will LIKELY manipulate you to makeup ground and back pedal if she is the primary breadwinner. Take what the court gives you, put it in a childs college fund, donate it to charity, battered woman's shelter or take your kids on the vacation you never went on. Better yet, let the court determine alimony/support and after all the documents are signed, you give back what you feel like. Or tell her to stop sending money however if there are issues you will request payment of money owed. If she gets out of line, ask her to start sending the checks. Hate to say it but to turn down money or support for any reason AT THIS POINT, although, I understand your point AND POSITION about not wanting to do this, is premature and ill advised. Don't be altruistic, I can assure you she VERY LIKELY spitting venom about you to her atty based on the events and now she knows she made some huge mistakes.


In the end, your kids should be the only focus for your efforts as they appear to be, until all the papers are signed. If this does not fit for any reason, throw it in the round file cabinet however, just ask your atty about what is being discussed. Although there may be a tweak here or there based on laws of your state, it is my hope that if you asked your lawyer (and get the best one you can) that this information would not be far off...


Sorry for the long, boring post.. I paid a lot for this advice and it paid off in spadesJust my thoughts. Now for the hate mail!

Vanny

[Billiejosehine]

What an interesting night: just to give an update if anyone is interested. When I got word that my step mom and dad, who are not so accepting, were coming up to help "my wife"; I immediately called and told them not to because they did not need to get involved. Well after stoping by the house after work, there they were. They were so worried and concerned about me that they decided to disregard my request. I tell you, for the next two hours, my step mom, my dad, and my wife were all making it seem like I'm the bad guy for the whole situation; that Im mentally unstable, that I can have whatever lifestyle, but I need to fix and work on myself for the sake of the kids. My parents having been drug addicts, even made the connection of wearing women's clothes, identifying as a women, hiding this from people, and denying and not accepting it; to that of an addict. And how an addict wants something so bad, that they will do anything to get it, no matter the consequences or at what cost. They even explained how being an addict not only destroys your life, but everyone else's around them. My wife was glad that they brought up that correlation for me. My step mom even began to cry at some point because of how I'm mistreating everyone, she wants what's best for me, and to work on myself because I'm unstable and not okay. I didn't say much, but when I did my wife would instantly say see see what I have to deal with.

Now, while this conversation is going on; my mother in law and my wife's cousin are in the other room, (my mother in law came in to check on things with my wife a few times), my kids are running all over the place, and my brother in law and his fiancé show up at some point.

When my brother in law showed up, my wife steps out and begins talking with her family in the other room in Spanish. While step mom is still tearing me down, I hear my brother in law talking very angrily in Spanish of course. At that point it was just getting way to much and it knew it was time for me to leave. When I walked outside my dad went with me and asked me what that was all about with my wife's family. As if I knew what they were talking about, which I should, but in the five years I have been with my wife I am still not fluent in Spanish.

In this marriage there lots of problems besides me keeping a secret about CDing and identifying myself as a women. That was just icing on the cake, but it is giving everyone involved in this crazy situation the okay to attack me and make me look like the bad guy.

[Vanessa Rose]

Lord Billie,

What a mess...

We do care.

Vanny

[Billiejosehine]

Sometimes, I just want to run and hide under a rock, until it's all over and the dust settles. But, then I think about my son and daughter and that gives me the strength to stand up and keep moving forward.

[Vanessa Rose]

If it means anything Billie, I did not go through what you did. Your situation was much worse than mine.
I am immensely pleased I am divorced but it saddens me. All those years..

I know I wanted to climb under a rock, but what I did was play a game with the whole deal. My mission everyday was to research all the information ASAP that my lawyer needed, organiZe it and strike first. It is war.
I have my whole life on discs and papers and all that work prepared me everyday to remain sane. I put my energy into proving that I would not stoop to their level, say mean thing (most challenging thing in my life) and to make sure I told the children every chance I could that they were not to blame for this and no one could ask for better children. That we both still loved them etc.

My point is I challenge fed myself to prepare as if I was at war with a competitor and it worked in helping my sanity and delivering a fair decision.

GOD speed to your issues Billie. My heart hurts for you and your children but please know that in the end all will be better and work out somehow.

You have to believe that I think or it is so depressing.

Vanny

[Caden Lane]

Are your parents not aware of the hell your wife and her family have put you through to this point?

[Billiejosehine]

I try to explain my side, but my own father said that he believes my SO more then me.

[Caden Lane]

I've been there before. My folks sided with my second wife, and it hurt. All you can do is show them the facts, the open hostility of her family while your folks were there, the fact you had to take out restraining orders.