Traps! What's all this, then?

[Sarah Marie]

I've been out of the CD scene for a few years and there is a whole new world of young TG girls who call themselves "traps." I'm not sure of the etymology of the term, but I am damn jealous of them! Young, beautiful, and not afraid to explore the boundaries of gender,

[PaulaQ]

Young passable TG / CD women who date straight guys, who don't realize they aren't actually female until it's just way too late. From 4chan slang, where nearly everything stupid on the internet comes from...

[prettytoes]

That doesn't seem like a very good idea. A young straight guy could quickly become enraged upon finding out the hot girl in a mini dress has a surprise between her (his?) legs! Sounds like they would be opening the door for a good beating.

[cheryl]

In the day as a matter of fact just not too long ago was looking at pics of myself in my teens. I looked like a girl with my long hair, very thin. And I did dress then but shamefully hid it. Nowadays it being acceptable they can do it without fear. Gotta say a bit jealous!

[Eryn]

That doesn't seem like a very good idea. A young straight guy could quickly become enraged upon finding out the hot girl in a mini dress has a surprise between her (his?) legs! Sounds like they would be opening the door for a good beating.

Well, that's the "trans-panic defense" that is sometimes invoked when the person delivering the beating is charged with battery. It is usually unsuccessful.

That said, I can see some very tough ethical issues with a passable TG individual leading someone on who is not aware of their status. Yes, we should be able to lead the lives we want, but if we are interacting with others in ways that lead them to believe that we are going to engage in activities with them for which we are not "equipped" then we are guilty of fraud.

[Kate Simmons]

Sounds to me like a bunch of wannabes looking for trouble.:)

[Kelly DeWinter]

There is nothing new about this , many years ago the term was "benny boy" , then "she-male", now "trap". It all refers to someone who presents female, then springs the truth at the most inopportune moment. The usual outcome was not good, usually physical violence against them, up to and including death. It is probably the number one cause of physical violence in our community. I say 'cause' because the misrepresentation is a conscious decision on their part.

[KaceyR]

I dunno. It's continued more frequently with Japanese Anime and Manga nowadays.
Just look up Hideyoshi Kinoshita from Baka to Test.....heh.
Google "Hideyoshi trap" and you get all sorts of funny meme pics.
Other stories about a guy having to be in a girl's only school...
A lot more stuff is showing up in stories involving these.
Don't really see any focus however on followed physical violence though.

I tend to feel Japan's handled these situations better than most in the
world.. to even having real life clubs you can go to where all the maids
and waitresses were "traps"...

I'd go visit those sometime if given the opportunity :)

And aside from Admiral Ackbar jokes... :)

[Melissa_59]

Kacey, I think you nailed it. It's the Admiral Ackbar thing from Star Wars where he yells "IT'S A TRAP!"

I agree with others that it's really dangerous. Sure the person beating your head in with a tire iron might go to jail for a few years but that won't bring you back from the dead.

[grace7777]

If a relationship starts to develop then I think the cd/tg has a duty ro disclose who they are. The sooner disclosure is made the better it is.

[Allison Quinn]

It's a big thing in anime to the point where it is pretty much a character archetype. My generation seems to be really big on anime too so I hear it used quite often around my school :P

Hideyoshi is a good example, probably the greatest really xP
Some other well known ones are Mako-chan from Minami-ke (MTF) Haku from naruto who I think is FTM. I've also seen a lot of people reading Maria Holic which if I remember stars a trap.

As far as the whole issue of telling someone that, I believe you should well before it becomes a surprise. Obviously not right away but definitely way before that becomes what you're going to do. I know it is probably hard and a lot of the girls probably are trying to wait until SRS to tell them or something but it will make things more difficult if things happen to come out like that o.e Plus the whole relationship would be compromised because if you lie about something as big as your genitalia, as a partner I would question what else you probably lied about :s I can't speak from experience though as I have only known one "Trap" in real life and he did not set a good image for the community and he was very vocal about it :P so whoever was interested in him/her knew very well what he or she was getting into.

[KaceyR]

Corrected my Ackbar demotion :)
I have always thought (including reading Vanessa's thread about getting hit on...) that I would make darn sure that the person knew from the beginning about me.
I would rather have it known and then for them to run away than let things run for any duration then spring it on them later.
Bigger resentments then can happen... as it's unfair to them.
And since I don't think my CD'ing is something I could turn off + on... and if I did stop it wouldn't be permanent enough.
So I'd rather be truthful in all situations from the start. Then if things continue, then fine.
It may be limiting... but starting any relationship with falsehoods isn't in my nature anyways.

[Vanessa Rose]

:puke:We are the only ones that put ourselves in these situations.
As such I agree that we should disclose our identity

There is always a dark element in everything that will seek attention and be self serving.

I don't get people that are dishonest or deceptive. If they are this way abou something huge like this, you can only imagine
What else is not being said.

For me, I get grossed out and am HIGHLY PICKY with the folks I date. Just talked about this today as a matter of fact

I get freaked out if a person has had two or three partners before me. This type of person would make me sick to my stomach if for their deception and lies something happened and sex occurred. I would not be able to sleep for 5 years etc until until I knew I was clean.

Call me strange, I don't want to be where another's body was with a partner. Why don't I just have sex with them too. YUK. YAK!!!!

Vanny:puke:puke:puke:puke:

[Katey888]

Does seem a risky thing to do - while I have no doubt anyone meeting me dressed would have no doubt about the well developed shoulders and tell-tale wrinkles, etc. it's just ethically wrong not to be up front about who you really are. But the naivety of youth, I suppose - and one does question their motives for leading young fellas on... it's not just a bit of a laugh, is it?

And Sarah, Cheryl - don't be jealous - there's much more to be said for beauty with experience - and some of us girls have that! ;)

Katey x

[Paula_56]

For what it worth here is the sub reddit

[erica12b]

I know the word traps comes from the world of animations-anima (cartoons) out of japan. Looks like its now going to refure to the next generation of m2f (mostly) that are excepting there femside at a very young age, as for the risk stuff (there young and stupid - and young always push the envolope to the very edge )

[Beverley Sims]

Similar to us but with very different values.
We all know the dangers.
It is a changing face of society.

[Rogina B]

Vanessa Rose

You are looking for a virgin by the sounds of it! Not sure a virgin is going to work out so well. As far as STD's go,you can do your own "due diligence" and usually know where you stand..

[Sarah Marie]

Learned something new! Thanks for the info... and thanks Paula for the reddit info. I never even heard of reddit before.

[Vanessa Rose]

I guess to each their own. Others can do whatever they want but for me, and this is not a judgement on anyone else, if I want your past spouses/partners doowiggie or Johnson in my mouth I would have dated them.

I am very, very selective and for me, it has worked and that is all that matters. I would not be with a partner that varied from my ideal, because I would not want that and this the person would not be attractive to me.

I think by my statement, I have eliminated my desire for a virgin.

Hard to explain but this is one of the many, many conundrums and quirks of Vanessa Rose. I also find it sexually exciting that my partners have had other partners and want to hear that they were satisfied and how so. I want to top all others. Anyway if you figure me out fine, but I just have this internal compass and it has always steered me right as far as I can tell!
Now for the hate mail

Vanny

[erindemia]

Really glad I saw this thread, I've been wondering about this. Ackbar had occurred to me too, just couldn't make the connection!

[Kit]

While the "surprise" factor is definitely a part of it, the term has evolved more to mean someone that is completely convincing as a female. Most anime/chan geeks hold traps separate from cross-dressers and even transgendered individuals. So now it's less about having a secret, and more about passing so well that people don't even believe you are/were born a male.

[Michelle.M]

Sounds like a variation on the term "genderf**k"

[whowhatwhen]

I went to a support group once and a girl there called herself a she.male.
That day I realized that it doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you're happy.

:)

(Sorry for bypassing the filter but I kinda need to say the word to get my point across)

[Alice B]

It is risky, stupid and hurts the rest of us via the public view of gender.

[Michelle.M]

I went to a support group once and a girl there called herself a she.male.
That day I realized that it doesn't matter what you call yourself as long as you're happy.

:)

(Sorry for bypassing the filter but I kinda need to say the word to get my point across)

Funny you should bring this up. I don't think the discussion of she males quite fits into the trap / genderf**k paradigm, but if my instincts are correct then this thread will quickly get judgmental and then all bets are off anyway.

Yeah, she males. The very word (albeit abridged for filtering reasons) brings up all sorts of ire among the sisterhood, just as any other gender presentation or behavior does if it isn't deemed authentically trans by those who claim to have that authority. Pity. Maybe I'm getting too soft in my old age but I find there's lots more room at my table for the inclusionists than for the exclusionists (um, I guess that makes me exclusionist as well?).

Anyhoo . . . Here's what Bailey Jay has to say about that. Gave me lots to think about. Oh, and for those who are tempted to fire off a stinging rebuttal without looking at this clip - wait. She's talking especially to you.

http://wehappytrans.com/qa/7-questions-bailey-jay/

[Lorileah]

OK kids...keep it clean here. In other words...don't let it happen anymore k?

And since I am posting, I think the idea of baiting a man just to show yourself you are passable is dangerous and stupid. From what I can glean from the websites on this, it is nothing more than a sexual thing

[whowhatwhen]

I don't think it's really fair to judge people on the label they use, especially if they're happy and confident.
It just feels like a "you're not real because..." type of thing.

[Michelle.M]

That's exactly right! And it happens so often that we can't even see it for the dysfunctional morass it is. TS dismisses CD because they're just [whatever] and CD does the same thing. "True" TS proudly claims the title and dismisses those who are otherwise (ie: less than), and anyone who dares to even hint that being non-op is a viable way to live one's life gets her, um, well, gets something cut off, starting with her head.

Sure, seeking to present with the idea of being a "trap" or whatever has inherent risks, but I can't see where criticism is warranted. Just being trans has risks, doesn't it? These folks don't harm the greater community any more than anyone else in any other sphere of influence harms the rest. First, this assumes they identify as trans-anything (do they?) and second, this also assumes they have a responsibility to the tribe.

I'd guess the answer is "they don't" on both counts. And if my well-being was dependent on what anyone else did I'd really be in trouble. I just worry about being the best me I can be and I don't make excuses for anyone else's behavior. And besides, anyone who judges me based on someone else's actions isn't worth my concern anyway.

[AllieSF]

Good posts Michelle. I liked the video and agree with what Bailey had to say and I agree with what you are saying. One point of yours happens to be one of my hot buttons so to speak, as we all search for toleration and even acceptance from others. That button is that we have to do, should do what others think, in their humble or not so humble opinion what is the correct thing, from dressing age appropriate to even dressing appropriately, and that what one person/member of our illustrious society does reflects directly back on everyone else in that segment of society.

My opinion on the second part reflects directly to the first one. I can see maybe a small number of people walking away in disgust (negatively impacted) after seeing one of us, in the umbrella TG meaning for us, dressed inappropriately in their eyes, or even being dressed appropriately but just being trans. However, what about everyone else, what do they think about it if they even think about it at all after they see the same thing? I believe that the vast majority of people out there do not condemn a race, religion, no life style choice of someone, even the poorly dressed trans person. They probably think that they just saw someone weird, different or whatever and then file it away under, "I Saw Something Very Different", and then get right back on to living their own lives. Only a very few get really upset or are so uneducated that they even let it bother them. Those type of people probably get upset about anything different from what they consider and also like to consider normal and acceptable to them.

So, even if one does not like Bailey's chosen profession in the trans erotica industry, just listening to her talk and to hear her positive actions to help makes her very acceptable human being in my eyes, and I hope other people's eyes and minds too.

Thanks for your posts Michelle.

[Sarah Marie]

Bailey Jay is amazing. She has found happiness and a niche. I was influenced by Karen Dior, not because of her movies, but rather, her confidence and her ability to say, "This is who I am." There have been many pioneers in the TG world. Some of them have found homes in more erotic venues. Others, Like Joanne Roberts, have championed Transgender issues in more subtle ways. They are all heroines in my book.

[Aprilrain]

Sounds dangerous.....really dangerous!

[queenie]

Young passable TG / CD women who date straight guys, who don't realize they aren't actually female until it's just way too late. From 4chan slang, where nearly everything stupid on the internet comes from...

You're partially right. It's more immature denizens on the internet posting pics of young passable TV/TGs to see what a kind of reaction they get from straight guys. When guys post about hot attractive said person is, their birth gender is revealed and the guys were "trapped."

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/its-a-trap

[Mona]

While they seem more open sexually they also are questioning and looking for friends like most younger people. Unfortunately this site is closing soon.

[Taylor Ray]

is it a fact or is it a fiction
and when can I return to the reality of my life?

show business has seeped into the internet in strange ways

yes, we still do have real human neighbors...

don't we?

[docrobbysherry]

Finally! Thank u, Mona! So disappointed no traps responded to this thread. After reading everyone's opinions, I can check out how traps, the them" everyone is discussing, actually think?

[Lygophilia]

The term was always blunt of description. It fits a "particular kind" too well. I see nothing with it.

[Acastina]

Without having made a study of the term, I've tended to view it as a variation on "trans", as in travesti, trav, trannie, and so forth. Not sure there's a literal meaning of setting a trap, although maybe it is evolving to a more specific meaning.

That being said, young passables setting out to fool young men with sex bait is indeed a dangerous game...

[Caden Lane]

I think its a symptom of the gender flexibility we are starting to see in kids. Which shoudnt ever be seen as a bad thing. I wish that life had been like that for us way back when. But They lack any guidance or help in what they are doing, and since they lack maturity, like a kid with a new toy, they see what they can do with it. Or what they can get away with.

[whowhatwhen]

Maybe some are just regular women who are attracted to men?
We don't give GGs this kind of scrutiny.

Somehow I doubt there is an epidemic of transwomen willing to risk tricking straight guys minutes from having sex.
Then again men shouldn't be violent in the first place so we'll leave victim blaming out of this entirely I hope.

[robindee36]

Interesting new term for my lexicon of dressing. However, the premise sounds a dangerous one.

Thank goodness I do not pass as a GG. Anyone who pursues things with me is perfectly aware of what they are getting into ;) Never wanted to pass, only present as a cute CD.

Hugs and be careful. Robin :bunny:

[JennyLynn]

Not a smart idea. Always better to be honest. Otherwise what's the sense? Looking to get your head knocked off? This is based on only the first few posts, as I haven't gone much farther with the comments. Don't wish to.

[Caden Lane]

Unfortunately Coronary, there are websites and blogs dedicated to it, where they describe in detail, take suggestive photos which reveal their genetic gender, and where they brag about their exploits.

While it would be great if men who discovered this werent violent, alas some are. Who is the victim in this I ponder.

As far as giving GGs this sort of s during, I've heard devious things of women...not so much something as devious and damaging as this. I'm dismayed that another the would be this miss leading, and make uscolle fibrous look bad.

If these young tg were behaving responsibly, and not being missleading, this would be a non-issue. I don't think anyone suggested that any of us should be asexual. But this is a dangerous behavior, that very indirectly reflects on us transpeople, of every orientation and gender facet.

[Zimri]

As they used to say on a famous TV show: be careful out there. Still so much prejudice, ignorance and hatred in the world, do you really want to invite anyone who you're not sure already accepts you into your zone?

[whowhatwhen]

I think this is a bit close to victim blaming though?
"Don't do a [thing] because you'll have [something] happen to you"

[Caden Lane]

Well, there are consequences to every choice. The key is to make smart choices. That's not blaming a victim. If a person seeks out to do something as malicious as that, knowing what the potential consequences might be, I think they forfeit some right to be outraged at the result, even if the result is malicious to certain extents. At some point the result may become even more malicious than the original act. Then that is another matter entirely.

A rape victim presumes the right, and correctly so, that they should be able to walk from point to point completely unmolested. A young man presumes that when he makes a date with a young lady, that she is a young lady, if that is what she purported to be. If a "trap" is honest from the get go, these sorts of debates are rendered moot. Calling a "trap" a victim is a bit of a stretch, given their intent to mislead, and knowing the potentials for harm, and is a disservice to victims everywhere.

[Kelly DeWinter]

I think this is a bit close to victim blaming though?
"Don't do a [thing] because you'll have [something] happen to you"

Corinne;

Very interesting point you make. I think that everyone would agree that violence of any kind is wrong and should not be tolerated . IF some one set's out to intentionally deceive another , then that's wrong as well. If someone is bisexual or gay and truly wants a relationship, who could fault them ? But to pull a "Bait and Switch" is deception. Should that person be subject to violence, of course not. Everyone has preferences in life, some are based on physical characteristics such as hair,eyes, skin color and sex. The problem is , it is so easy to disguise ones sex, that it's not obvious to the other party. So the real question becomes, at what point do you reveal what sex you truly are ?

[Helen_Highwater]

I've got it at the back of my mind that recently someone was jailed in the UK for gender misrepresentation such that it was classed as a sexual assault. If I remember correctly in the case I'm thinking of it was a GG passing herself off as a male and dating other GG's. Now on the sex offenders register.

Also I think I'm correct when I say dressing fem is in itself not a crime unless you do so to mislead or deceive for criminal purposes so these Traps are treading on shaky ground.

[Kelly DeWinter]

Helen ;
The incident you speak of I have referenced below:

http://lexiecannes.com/2013/03/08/disturbing-uk-gender-id-fraud-sexual-intimacy-case-complicated-by-age-misrepresentation/

It appears the issue that landed him on the sex offenders list was not his gender, but that he was having sex with minors while his true age was above the legal limit.

[Plasibeau]

in regards to 4chan and etymology: first use outside of animie was in reference to whom the internet now knows as Bailey Jay, trans porn star. When she was first stepping out into the world she went to an Otaku Con (animie convention), dessed as a convincing school girl. She lifted her shirt on a dare and the original term "line trap" was invented. Over the years it has been shortened to trap and here we are now.

Don't ask how I know this, lol.

[whowhatwhen]

Yeah so far I haven't seen very many transwomen refer to themselves as a trap.
Most of it's usage I've seen has been where someone posts a picture of a passable transwoman and later goes "LOL SHES GOT A DICK ITS A TRAP!"

[Caden Lane]

Tran women with class and taste rather...we are discussing a younger generation who lack experience and judgment.

[Annaliese2010]

Traps. Hmmm... sounds cool and edgy.

[Candice Mae]

I hate that word, it sounds so negative. Everyone deserves to be loved, but we have to be honest with everyone even ourselves. I'm not saying we should wear name tags that say "I'm a guy". But don't claim to be something your not and tell them before things go too far.

I am a genetic male, but I bind my breasts, wear baggy clothes to hide my figure, and grow a little facial hair to try and make myself look as masculine as possible when trying to meet GGs. I don't hide who or what I am if they ask I'll tell them.

[Vickie_CDTV]

This kind of behavior reminds be about the warnings local officials give to kids about jumping into the shallow water off the local gorges. "You may live. You may die. But, if something goes wrong, even if you survive you will never be the same again." Just don't do it.

[Milou]

Think it came from 4chan and was a term for a very feminine boy in anime. Now there are some real life traps, but I don't really care about them.

[GingerLeigh]

It's likely Traps would be a more common phenomenon if all of us were as passable as they are. We're quick to jump on them, but they are under the TG umbrella like the rest of us. Transgendered and in need of validation.
That being said, I don't agree with the risks traps take but hey it's a free world. Getting sexually involved with an unknown partner is always risky.

"...life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get..."

[Caden Lane]

I do think it is possible for us to embrace them as TG, but detest or speak out about their behavior. Its the socially responsible thing to do, and I've yet to see a post that did otherwise.