Normalcy

[PaulaQ]

So by the rather arbitrary standards of the heteronormative, cisgendered world, pretty much nobody on this forum is "normal." There are just scads and scads of heterosexual cisgendered folks in the world - it's really their world, at least by the numbers.

And the view of so many of them are that we are "other". We aren't normal. (Neither are gays, lesbians, bisexual folks for that matter.)

So in our case, it seems to me that we have two options:
1. Go stealth, and pass as a cisgendered person
2. Be out, and never really belong in the normal world. Maybe some of it accepts you, maybe some of it doesn't - but you are never really one of them.

So the first option, the default and only really workable option until quite recent times, involves living a normal appearing life in exchange for living in a very dark and scary closet.

The second option lets you be honest with yourself and the rest of the world - at the cost of often being considered "an other."

So which option would you choose, or did you choose during your transition?

I ask because I've always wanted to be "normal" - just like the majority of people in the world, not-disabled, heterosexual, cisgendered. I've always really wanted this, but never felt I ever had the option to make it happen.

During my transition, I find that I seem to move further and further away from the norm. I'm still handicapped - that didn't change. I'm not only a trans woman, but apparently I'm also a lesbian, much to my chagrin. I live in the gay community in Dallas. I'm friends with lots of folks here now - my life is radically different than anything I knew before transition, and I find myself editing out parts of my life from normal people in my life - I'm not trying to hide it so much as just not mention stuff they aren't very likely to understand in the first place.

So I guess for me, being out seems like the only real choice. I don't want to live in stealth, and even if I did - I just don't belong in the normal world, although part of me has always wanted to.

How do y'all feel about this, what'd you choose, how's it working out, do you feel normal, etc.?

[melissakozak]

Most of us grew up feeling somehow different and certainly not normal....our lives are certainly lived in a unique way...for us, collectively, there are others who are like us, which makes this part of the human experience within the realm of possibilities, but I must say, our uniqueness is not very common. The larger question for all trans folks is finding some happiness and a solution to a very unique problem. I am more concerned now with how I am going to make my life work than feel normal...I gave up on normal a long, long time ago...:)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Paula that is a fascinating take.

I have said all along that when you transition you are "marginalized' and that you immediately become an "other".... those words are kind of hard to nail down but I think everybody knows what they mean... they are generally not good...but sometimes they are!!
A highly gifted computer nerd is an "other"...a virtuoso musician that can hear music and immediately play it... a 7' tall person...etc... they can have excellent quality of life but they are so different they don't fit in!!

Anyway...that's a digression..

I don't think you can avoid being "other"...and you have to live with it.. That dark and scary closet makes you an other even in a totally stealth world...

As for me, I did it my way.. I left my job with a severance so I could take time to transition the way I wanted on my timetable (I get that I am blessed to do this but frankly I worked hard for over 20 years and I saved my money)...
and I stayed in my house, I am raising my kids, and some people know about my past and the rest of them don't...

I am totally stealth and totally open at the same time...I had my ffs...I totally pass (again I know that's a blessing)..I almost can't NOT pass!! LOL...

I feel totally and completely normal even though I know I am very different than the other girls...it comes out in many ways...

I had a couple come in my house the other day and look at my new appliances... They didn't know about my past... the woman was so warm and engaging, making direct eye contact and my response to her felt natural and good... but I also talked football and was very "guy" in my conversation as I spouted my predictions and sparred with him over which players are best in the NFL draft...

That felt very normal to me!!! I hope i'm being clear... you don't have to choose anything ...just take it day by day... and make each decision on its merits..

an example is on my block I chose to tell 3 couples... the rest I just let them figure it out...

another example is my daughter is in high school, and over the years I've had to go and pick her up dozens of times ...I just go and do it... twice in 4 years I got a question because the person at the desk knew her mom... I just said i'm her dad....boom...what are you gonna do???

I also agree with what Melissa is saying...we actually are totally normal humans!! We are just part of the human condition... We are others too...but its the human condition

I bet Paula over time you come to the same place as me...you'll just be you...and you'll be fine with it.... and here's the key thing!!!

If you are fine with it, everybody else will be too (and if they are not, see ya later)

[Rianna Humble]

Funny that, I've never wanted to be "normal" even when I was in denial - I guess that is just part of being a menschevist. Of course, I want people to accept me, but I want them to accept me for who I am not for who I might be.

I don't like living in closets - they tend to be cramped and not very airy, but even if I had chosen that option, it was doomed to fail from the start - my story went viral within a month of the start of my transition. It seems that almost anything I do makes it into the newspapers in some part of the world. When I sought selection for parliament, it was supposed to be a relatively private internal party affair, but I still got messages of congratulations from Germany, Australia, USA and other parts of the world - WTH is all that about?

The upside of being different is that I can empathise with other people who are different in ways unrelated to mine and it seems that that makes me better at my job, so that's a bonus.

[Annaliese]

If you are hiding, then one can't feel good about one self, and can't be happy. Isn't this what this is all about it to be happy, and find one self.

[LeaP]

I would choose stealth – but I do not regard that as either hiding or trying to pass as something you are not.

How you approach this depends on how you understand and internalize transsexuality. If you lean more to the view that it is a correctable birth defect, then it is more likely you will not view stealth as hiding, anymore than does a person with other physical issues related to sex and gender like intersex people (and I regard transsexuality as an intersex condition), CAIS women, etc.

[arbon]

I think ideally it would be better to be stealth if you can do it.

but that was not really an option for me. My looks, my location. Even if I got the looks part taken care of through FFS I would still have to move far away and give up all my friends and community and start over. i don't want to do that.

Being out is not really a bad thing - I think I live a decent, rather normal and dual life today for the most part. I feel part of the normal world - I get up and go to work, I have friends, I do stuff, pay my bills, get involved in all sorts of things in the community. Most of the time people don't bother me because I am trans even if they do know.

Sometimes someone will get excited that they saw a tranny and shove it in my face - like coming back from mexico recently while catching my connection in phoenix, a guy pointed me out to his girl friend or wife and said loudly "thats a man" as I was getting on the plane. Made me feel a bit vulnerable, different, and self conscious for a while. But also I felt a good about myself - I don't let idiots or my fear of what people think of me stop me anymore from being who I am. I'm just living my life. What do jerks like that guy really know about me? Why should I care what they think?

[stefan37]

Arbon hit the nail on the head. I have never felt more normal than I do now. I go about my daily life as me. There is no more hiding or denying. I am treated with respect for the most part. I also are transitioning in place. I am well accepted and treated well. Life is what you make of it.

[PaulaQ]

How you approach this depends on how you understand and internalize transsexuality. If you lean more to the view that it is a correctable birth defect, then it is more likely you will not view stealth as hiding, anymore than does a person with other physical issues related to sex and gender like intersex people (and I regard transsexuality as an intersex condition), CAIS women, etc.

I actually completely agree with you that transsexuality is a correctable birth defect, and a type of intersex condition. I think when the history of this is finally written, the cruelty of modern people, particularly that of many medical professionals, will make people in the future aghast.

What do I mean when I talk about being "other" - it can certainly mean you feel about yourself, but what I really mean is how society views you. This is something that is really beyond your control. "Others" are often prevented from participating in some activities that "normal" people are allowed to participate in. They may face social stigma, and outright discrimination.

That said - I have been an "other" all of my life, through no real choice of my own. I'm handicapped. It's visible, it limits my activities in mostly trivial but inconvenient ways - and many people treat me differently because of it, and they always have and always will. (I'm used to it at this point by the way.) It was tougher when I was younger - I was cut off from many activities that were fun for other children, and so the difference felt much worse than it really is.

My choice of partners is going to be visible sometimes - I don't intend to hide my girlfriend. Being a lesbian also "others" me - at least here in Texas.

I don't really see myself moving back to the heart of "normalsville" - i.e. the suburbs. This was normal to me as I grew up, and it was the world I desperately tried to fit into, but never really did, for multiple reasons. Sure, there are normal people who live where I live, and who even volunteer in the LGBT community and are allies of it, although I wonder if some of them don't get tinted a bit with the "other" brush by much less understanding normal folks, since conformity is rather important in the normal world.

I suppose my own personal reason that I ask this question, and why I seem to struggle with this, is that I'm trying to live differently now, and be open, to accept my "otherness" and to stand up and be counted to show the normals how WRONG they often are. But this doesn't come naturally to me. I've been hiding so long, and I'm so good at it - it just comes naturally to me.

I'll give you an example. People in my support groups, and mostly in real life, think I am a kind of a sexually repressed person - a prude. I just give off that vibe - I'm this really sweet lady who is so sympathetic and such a good listener, but who'll probably at minimum blush, if not pass out, if you mention "S - E - X" (spelled out so as not to offend my tender sensibilities!)

I am really open in my support groups. (I like to think I am here too.) I think people believe me when I speak, because I endeavor to be honest. So I talked about this in group - that I'm actually a very sexual person. LOL, no one believed this. Not a single person. :) I'm sure this is some type of defense mechanism, and as they go, it's a really effective one. And it really doesn't matter - for the most part nobody needs to know about my sex life anyway, so it's fine. (Other than I'd probably have way more sex if I came across as being as sexual as I actually am.)

My point is - hiding comes naturally to me and automatically, and it's hard to stop it even when I'm trying my hardest to be exceedingly open and honest. (I actually don't know how to turn off the "school librarian" vibe I give off in public - it's really automatic. In private, it's no problem, and I'm a kind of a freak.)

So there is a part of me that wants to hide and blend in with the normal world, and be as invisible and normal as I can possibly appear. But I swore when I started this that I'd do everything differently this time, that I'd live my life differently. And so to my mind, that leaves hiding things about myself as just not much of an option. Still, a part of me craves this - to hide, be invisible. It just seems so much safer.

I hope all that makes sense to some of you. I'm sure I'll figure this all out, and for what it's worth, as weird as my current life seems to me based on my past, I really do love it and wouldn't change it. It's just part of me is freaking out that I'm not hiding.

edit: To be completely honest, it isn't just the feeling of safety of hiding out that I crave. I enjoy the challenge of fooling the normal people. Part of me laughs at their gullibility, and secretly delights in my cleverness. I can't feel that this is a positive personality trait, but it really is one I have. Part of me is secretly delighted, and finds it hilarious, that I'm viewed as a prude when I'm really not. Yeah, I know that's kind of screwed up.

[Dawn cd]

If being "normal" means accepting the attitudes and prejudices of the unthinking majority, why on earth would anyone want to be normal? It has nothing to do with being cisgendered or trans. As human beings we are called to grow in tolerance, discernment and wisdom. Those who persist in their prejudice are people whose growth is stunted—who have simply failed to become adults, so why be like them? Dallas may be an exception, but I believe that most people do grow out of their prejudices. Time is on our side.

[Carlene]

I believe that we are not normal, in that, we do not fit within the defined confines of norm. We are therefore, a deviation to the norm. This, it would seem, to put us in a basket known as "other." The term other suggests that the definition of such is not easily gained or understood well enough to properly label (by those in charge of labeling). It would follow then, that because we are not easily understood, we are not to be trusted or embraced................sigh

[arbon]

my life is radically different than anything I knew before transition,


as weird as my current life seems to me based on my past, I really do love it and wouldn't change it.


Prior to facing my gender issue I never really knew a trans person and had never been part of the lgb community - maybe I flirted around the edges of it a few times in my life when I was younger, but mostly my life was hetrosexual cis gender idaho outdoors-man type life. Even indicating I had democratic leanings had to be kept in closet - dangerous to say such a thing around most the people I hung with. Rarely talked about anything lgbt and certainly not trans related, when those things did come up it was in a very negative way. It was a different world.

So there was that shift in my social life, and where I fit in, once I came out. Now I have tons of trans friends, gay friends, straight friends....but I am not part of that conservative idaho outdoorsman good old boy deal anymore. Friends have changed, I have much better friends now. My FB page is interesting - such a diverse mix of people from trans, gay, straight, christian, mormon, democrat, republican. I like it a lot better that way, but it was unimaginable 4 or 5 years ago.

[Angela Campbell]

I am pretty normal. I am going through something few others do but I am normal and I live a normal life.

[Rachel Smith]

Normal? I feel I am normal now but wasn't before. I still will always be an "other" in the eyes of most "normal" (read cisgendered) people. I feel to them we will never be normal but acceptance is close enough for me.

[Starling]

Congratulations, Rianna, on your very public status; it takes most of the uncertainty away, doesn't it?

I'm not full-time right now, but when I do go out I feel not only comfortable, but powerful. I have experienced some deliberately insulting staring and a bit of teenage-girl laughing, but by and large I'm accepted without a ripple as either a woman or as a transsexual. This isn't because I'm so all-fired great, but because I'm proud, and I'm operating from a position of strength. I yearn for the time I can go 24/7.

:) Lallie

[oliviall]

When my daughter's skull was taking longer to close than usual, the doctor described it as a "normal deviation" and not to let anyone sell me helmets or unnecessary surgery to correct it.

I think other than taking a negative connotation from the word deviation (which in purely scientific terms should have none), perhaps that applies here.

I mean, I'd way rather be who I am than be featured on Intervention or Hoarders :)

[PaulaAnn]

Define "normal"...everyone has a different slant ..are you happy being you? If so ,you are normal by your standard.I'm out full time( a year come Feb. 22),been on HRT for nearly a year....I'm well chuffed at being the real me....most people accept me ,some give me the "look" ,some ask me why I choose this path....I reply because it's just who I am,the real me finally coming into my own.Not without pain ,regret and loss,but also joy, love and acceptance .Bottom line....I've never been happier.
PaualAnn.

[TeresaCD]

How do y'all feel about this, what'd you choose, how's it working out, do you feel normal, etc.?

I always felt different, now I am ok with that, more than ok in many ways.
I do hate that I cannot share this new found self acceptance and awareness with the vast majority of people in my 'normal' life, at this point, but that's the life I have.
For most of my life, I wanted to be 'normal', now I am so glad I can be me, unique and special.
So, I don't mind being an 'other', when I can express myself that way.
My being out and about raises (hopefully) community awareness, and helps people see us as we are, beautifully and wonderfully made, unique people, like them.
(I should explain, my favourite times this past year have been weekend outings doing everyday stuff)
Paula honey, I know I'm biased, but you've taught me that I am 'normal', accepting that has changed my life forever, for the better

[Christina Kay]

Hmmmm What is normal? Well i can tell you that's not me. Have always felt like I was standing outside peering thru the window of life and how others lived there's. I tried to fit into the defined lane of normal, but I guess I always drift off onto the shoulder. Always marched to the beat of a different drummer .
Yes we all wished for normalcy. We all felt we fell short , looks wise,physical ability,personality,cognitive skills. But I now know iam normal to me. Coming out and really admitting to myself , my true self . I feel like I will live a normal life ,striving for an authentic life now. Iam transgendered and iam normal . @PaulaQ a really wonderfully introspective thread this is.

[bas1985]

I wanted badly to be normal in my teens... secretly CDing in my home and trying desperately to blend as a "normal" hetero boy.

MM, how much energy lost!!!!! in retrospective probably if I came out earlier I would have lived a longer life, now I am starting at 40 to live "normal".

[melissaK]

IMHO Normal is so misunderstood.

Here's Rule 1: no one's DNA is like anyone else's. That means there's 7.1+ billion people on the planet who want to be accepted for their unique version of being human. Welcome to the club. You are 'normal' because you aren't like anyone else, OK?

Here's Rule 2: no one person can carry out the prime directive of life - to reproduce the specie. For humans we need to form alliances to carry out the task of reproducing the species. (To get a baby you need a man and a woman, a woman carrying a child needs protection from predators, and assistance in finding food while raising her child, etc etc.) We match up traits and opinions and move off into cliques to carryout and facilitate species reproduction. It's in our DNA to do this. Your DNA follows the prime directive to co-operate in reproducing the species, and you want to be in some groups to feel secure, so again, you are normal.

Making cliques - that's political. And the political groups we form all have some rules, but you know darn well not every member is happy about the rules. We are ALWAYS changing the rules in our political groups. This is because you can't repress the fact each group member is unique. See, Rule #1.

So if you simply must have everyone in your political group like you above all else, become a politician. For us transgendered, the most common political lie is to act like we are our natal gender.

If your group has rules against you, start changing your group's rules, or change your group. Maybe go form a new group of your own. Be friendly and helpful and smile and accept others for their differences and you will find enough similar villagers to have a little clique and be happy.

We humans routinely join various groups with a limited scope of rule - i.e. Republicans can also be Lutherans or Catholics, but Lutherans are not Catholics. Republican Catholics can be Seattle fans or Broncos fans but Seattle fans are not Bronco fans. You can split this down until every individual can find their self in a collection of suitable groups so Rule 1 can co-exist with Rule 2.

So go find sub-groups that suit you. If your village is short on similar minded villagers, move to a different village. (Think about it, Pilgrims, Puritans, Irish, Chinese, etc moved to North America because they wanted new rules.)

This is how it has been for the history of humans. We transgendered are humans. This is how it is for us too. This is normal.

[LeaP]

With all due respect, Melissa, little of what you are describing has much to do with definition of normal.

Oxford - "conforming to a standard; usual, typical, or expected"

Dictionary.com -

"1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
...
3. Psychology. a. approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment. b. free from any mental disorder; sane.

4. Biology, Medicine/Medical. a. free from any infection or other form of disease or malformation, or from experimental therapy or manipulation. b. of natural occurrence."

You would have the secondary biological meaning only. Even here, you cannot properly term anything that is naturally occurring to be normal.

I think transsexuality is not normal. It is predictable in the population at known rates ... but so are many other birth defects. The normal - or expected and usual - state at birth is congruence between body and gender (perhaps better put as congruence between brain sex and other aspects of physical sex).

Paula's basic concern is acceptance vs otherness, not normalcy per se. Many of can cite cultural examples of trans acceptance, but even those do not regard trans people in the same way as the cissexual population.

[Starling]

As new anti-homosexuality laws are being enacted in various countries, we are reminded that progress--in the definition of "normal," or anything else--is not a continuous process. It may not even be lasting, for history provides us with many examples of regression from once-idyllic states.

Skeptics tend to hold a cyclic view, in the belief that entropy inevitably degrades the ideal to chaos, out of which we must gradually rebuild until we once again reach a peak, which itself will crumble. In other words, the level of acceptance we have right now may be the best we'll ever get in our lifetimes--so hop to it!

:) Lallie

[Jorja]

Normal? What is normal? Is living in the Alaskan wilderness living off of the land normal? Is hunting alligators in the Louisiana swamp normal? Is living out of a semi truck driving across the country normal? Are these people considered "other"? Wearing the clothing of the opposite sex seems normal in comparison, wouldn't you agree?

Who decides what is normal? I would not want that job. What if you made a mistake? While there are religious zealots and rednecks to tell you, you are not normal, who are they to say what is normal? Isn't it enough to just find your way through this mess and find a place where you can breathe without taking on the question if it is normal?

What would you do if it was 30-40 years ago? A man could still be arrested for wearing a dress in public in many places. You could be beaten severely and left on the street for dead if you got caught. Just a few years before that they would haul you off to a psych ward and perform experiments on you. Today the thinking of society has changed. No, I agree, it isn’t what it should be but it is a hell of a lot better than it ever has been. Take acceptance wherever it shows itself.

[LeaP]

I'm not making a value judgement. Normal does not equal good.

But I would say its counterintuitive to suggest something is normal which requires surgery to correct or change it.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I agree Lea.

I would have much preferred to save the time, pain and money and started out feeling normal...

.....not to mention all those terrible and confusing thoughts that I lived with... i'd much rather not have had those.

[PaulaQ]

Who decides what is normal?

Well, it's the folks who fall under the big hump in the bell curve... Nobody decides it - that's one of the fun parts. It just happens as an emergent property of lots of individuals.

I think we're mostly kind of built to want to "fit in" to the tribe. There's exceptional people of course who don't want that, or don't care.

I'm OK with not being normal - sometimes I wish things had been different - but who doesn't? And sometimes the irony of being out as trans, and yet still trying to pass so that I don't appear to onlookers as a man in a dress kind of gets to me. I'm out - but I want to control the disclosure, and not have to mess with it when I just need a jug of milk from the store.

I know that part of me wants to be accepted as a woman, too. So it's a little bit of a conflict internally between what makes me happy, what I want, and what I can realistically get.

[Jorja]

While you may feel it is to late for you, please see this thread: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?209367-Teenager-Makes-History-in-NC-Just-for-Being-Himself this is a good example of how far our society has come with acceptance. You would not have seen this just a few short years ago.

[PaulaQ]

I'd read that story, and I'm overjoyed at the changes for younger trans people though. I really am - it gives me a lot of hope for the future. How much of it I'll get to enjoy, I dunno, I'm mostly stuck with the same old transphobic and homophobic assholes from my generation, lol!

Plus, kids who are treated earlier for our condition stand a MUCH better chance of having a more normal appearance and more normal life.

So yes, I expect it's too late for me. That's OK though - I'll deal with it.

[TeresaCD]

Exactly, Paula. Happy to be out there, rather control the disclosure. Well put, as usual

[melissaK]

LeaP, I enjoy the discussion, but telling me I am not really on point? I think I was very much on point.

The tone of 'normal' threads on this forum always has an element that we are somehow broken or flawed. I don't think we are at all.

My Rule 1 talks about brokenness in a biological way. I admit I need to have you accept the foundational premise that being transgendered flows from DNA controlled biology, not how our moms or dads raised us. If you accept that, then because all humans have a unique combination of DNA, there is no room for concepts of brokenness unless you want to label each of us broken.

My Rule 2 talks about the human need for some degree of acceptance from other humans in order to survive and reproduce. Thus, people who are not alike, must secure enough cooperation from others who are not like them in order to reproduce the species. But this is a political rule making issue - it is not a question of who's "broken" and who's not. (I am using 'political' to encompass governmental rules and also social mores that we might follow with a church or club or other less formal group that doesn't force rule compliance via incarceration but might use ostracism or shunning for enforcement)

And because under my Rule 2 ALL humans have traits others don't have, it is the task of each of us to participate in forming groups and contributing to how the rules should work for or against others with particular traits. This rule making occupies an enormous amount of humans time - but we do it because we are each unique and we each know at some level that our own personal survival depends upon not being singled out and rejected for our unique traits. Thus we all want some version of the Golden Rule incorporated into the rules that govern our life. My intended point was it is 'normal' to be an individual trying to get political rules changed to allow for our individual view of the world.

And this rule making is where transgendered run into issues. Groups of people have gotten together and made rules that seek to exclude us for traits we have and they don't have.

And I think this is maybe where we differ. You are taking a "high occurrence" of a particular trait and calling it 'normal.' I would prefer you use the word 'expected' or 'commonest.' I say this because 'normal' has a qualitative connotation among its definitions that includes 'healthiness'. Even the dictionary you chose to quote has the medical quality portions stated. I don't want to be labeled as 'abnormal' and saddled with the connotation that our condition is 'unhealthy' or is 'diseased.' Labeling anyone with a genetic variance as 'abnormal' is far too judgmental and denies the biological imperative that each and everyone of us is unique genetic variant.

Look, I am white among whites with red hair. In a world of 7.1 billion +, I possess uncommon genes to be sure. I have been singled out and teased for it my whole life. I can not run nor hide from my red hair and pale skin anymore than a black haired tan skinned Mediterranean can run and hide from their genetic condition that allows them to tan. It took mankind Millennia to create governments where "race" is a protected class and we deny discrimination for it alone. And today, you would not call lily white me or a swarthy Mediterranean "abnormal." If a Chinese person walked in the room you wouldn't dream of calling them "abnormal" either.

I want to go over the medical connotation of 'normal' and 'abnormal' again with some examples. Two of my friends are doctors and test with wicked high IQs and eidetic memories. They each have multiple degrees and are called Doctor. I have never heard anyone call them 'abnormal.' Conversely my cousin is severely dyslexic and functions at about age 6. I have heard many call her "not normal.' Positive traits are generally exempted from being called 'abnormal' and negative traits are routinely judged 'abnormal.'

Its time we stopped treating our transgendered conditions as 'abnormal' and call our selves what we are - 'uncommon.'

This theme of avoiding negative judgment underlies all the legislation aimed at equal rights for transgendered. We want to be treated the same as everyone else, we want to not be judged for our 'uncommonness.' If we keep calling everyone else 'normal' we are by reduction calling ourselves 'abnormal' a judgment on us that is not warranted. .

Hugs as always.

[PaulaQ]

@melissaK - I don't believe I am flawed or broken - just quite uncommon. Indeed, I appear to be uncommon enough that many traits I have are judged negatively by society. It's a little hard sometimes, to not internalize this judgment, because sometimes it feels as if I'm standing against everything I was ever taught to believe, as if I've fallen from grace somehow, and of course the views of the outside world sometimes make me feel that's precisely the case.

So I feel I've done something wrong - but I never really had much choice in the first place - and yet somehow I'm made to feel as if I have done something wrong. (A view my wife takes on with relish, I think.)

The more I learn about myself, the more I learn that I really don't fit in well *at all* with common folk, as you call them. So it's a paradox for me - as I live more authentically - and I am doing that, without question, I seem to become less "normal." I'm just finally being open with myself about my differences, and trying to understand them now. (Oh my goodness though - I'm still not there yet!) Sometimes it's very difficult to find anything to talk about with the regular folks in my life. I just don't live in their world at all anymore.

[melissaK]

^^^^Paula

It is hard not to internalize the message of societal rules. In some ways a transgendered's journey is the classic "Hero's Journey" written about by Joseph Cambell. Cambell looked at mythic literature for a common archetype and reduced the plot lines of hundreds of stories to this:



“A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."

For us transgendered to survive we must leave the common day world and encounter supernatural wonders (i.e. an immeasurable, unprovable, inner calling to become the opposite gender). We encounter adversity in not only social ostracism from intolerant rule makers to expensive surgeons who can help us accomplish our journey. If we succeed, we bring back to the common world a loving caring happy person.

PaulaQ, you are in the middle of your epic hero's journey. You will be different for it . . .

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I agree its an epic hero's journey.. but each of us needs to be damn sure that when we get the prize we understand its wholly internal. We need to understand most "normal" people will not write a book about us being heros.

Some of the words in this thread are subject to lots of interpretation. I've always viewed it that normal is kind of an insufficient term to describe a human. However, we do live, work and play in groups and those groups clearly benefit human's in general..

ESPECIALLY if you fit neatly in one of the powerful groups. And this is regardless of whether you try to fit or provide any value added to your particular group..

This is partially why I've always referred to us as "others" and "marginalized"...It's all in the context of these powerful groups... (powerful can mean many things including just fitting in..there is a benefit to fitting in especially in day to day life)..

What's really interesting is that we spend so much of our internal lives trying to fit in ...just to fit in the group that we apparently belong..(men..in mtf cases).... and so when we "become" the other, it can be a really devastating blow, and you have to be really strong to deal with it.

Being marginalized like I was in my business life was a very hard thing to deal with at first, but I quickly realized that the way I felt on the inside was way more important. Sweating this difficult problem is something that we end up just getting over.

[melissaK]

^^^Kaitlyn, nice comments. I really get the "devastating blow" - - - like being the kid in kindergarden who gets told by a group of other kids "you can't play with us, you have kooties." Kooties aren't even real, its just a group using their power simply because they can. But its a devastating emotional blow none the less because we are programmed by our DNA to try and find a group . . . and we know the bigger the group, generally the safer it is.

And that's where the Hero's journey fits in. Hero's mostly act alone or with a really small group. We are forced to act alone, or with a really small support group.

And to be silly, I think the best support group should have us plus 6 others, because then we are the Magnificent Seven, or The Seven Samurai . . . or the Fellowship of The Ring (oh wait, there were 9 there, DOH!! Wait, did Pipen and Merry count?)

[Kathryn Martin]

To me a lot of what has been written about is very close to justification, to myth creation as a form of validation. Someone in another thread talked about bravery. I have never felt like a hero, rather I felt that what I really wanted was to be normal, everyday, living my life without being the sore thumb in the landscape of my own life. I now live a normal life. I get up in the morning, go to work, spend time with my spouse and see my children and grandchildren. I spend time with my friends, I flirt with guys, and sometimes I get hit on. I am exposed to sexist comments, I am expected to charge less than guys my seniority and often I am treated as if my clients (mostly male) do me a favor if I solve their problems. All in a day of a life of a woman. Normal!

[Angela Campbell]

Yes!!! That is what I want!!!

[bas1985]

Kathryn well said, could I just add a pathetic unfulfilled "normal housewife" dream? I remember at 14 reading my aunt's "woman's encyclopedia" with all the do and don't does of the perfect woman-wife-mother (the books were about Italian society of the 70s), yes, pathetic... dreaming about a "normal", everyday life that I would not have never had.

[melissaK]

I think you are heroic Kathryn. And your humbleness about it only adds to it.

[LeaP]

The tone of 'normal' threads on this forum always has an element that we are somehow broken or flawed. I don't think we are at all. ...


And I think this is maybe where we differ. You are taking a "high occurrence" of a particular trait and calling it 'normal.' I would prefer you use the word 'expected' or 'commonest.' ...

Again, I'm not making value judgements with respect to the meaning of normal. Normal does not equate to good. To which I would add, abnormal does not equate to bad.

Occurrence (common) is integral to "normal." I usually do use "expected variation" - but in regard to less common phenomena. Variation is, of course, variation from the norm ... or common pattern. I believe I have used "expected variation" in prior responses to you specifically in the past, in fact, though I'd have to search.

[PaulaQ]

I really get the "devastating blow" - - - like being the kid in kindergarden who gets told by a group of other kids "you can't play with us, you have kooties."

I was always this kid. Except in my case, they didn't want me all through school because I was handicapped. I have NEVER fit in, between being handicapped, and being trans, I've always felt like an outsider.

I dunno, as I figure out who I really am, and struggle to accept it - it becomes more evident to me that I'll probably never really fit in with "normal" folks. I'm queer as hell, for one thing - and the more I dig in to who I am, the more of that comes out. I'm not delighted about this - but it appears to be who I am. I already find that virtually none of what goes on in my life really makes for conversation with the normal folks I love, my old friends and my family. I don't talk about my job - nobody understands it beyond the level of "yeah, I worked on some code today." (That's nothing new though.) I don't talk about my social life - I think they aren't very comfortable with my trans girlfriend, and they definitely aren't comfortable when I talk about my gay friends. My kids are having a hard time with all of this.

I'm sure I'm going to have a good life - I already like it better than my old life, despite whining sometimes about not feeling normal. I'm just not, and never will be, I think. So I live here on the Island of Misfit Toys, with the other broken toys. It's not even like we're really broken - it's just the normal folks mostly don't want to play with us. Not much you can do about that, really. Well, at least we all have each other - most of the people here in Oaklawn/Cedar Springs feel as I do to some extent. We're all "others."

[Angela Campbell]

well at least on Facebook you have 50+ different "others" you can choose from. Cheer up!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Maybe the idea of being heroic is too much of us trying to fit in...after all, heroic is undeniably good and its a very good group to be part of (heroic people)

What can be said without judgment is that to live as a transsexual (transition or not) is generally speaking really f'ing hard to do..

One way its difficult is that there is no where to hide assuming you transition(or live as a gender outlaw which is even more in the open than transitioning in many ways).

We must make a statement (i'm a woman!!), and we must back it up... most people do not have to stand for themselves in this way...that's why I tend to tell people they better be ready for the fact that transition is it's own reward and nothing more... I know Kathryn's point of view is complimentary to my more stark view of it.."normal" people don't get a prize for being normal..and neither do we!!

[PaulaQ]

Kaitlyn - normal people absolutely get a reward for being normal. There are rights they have that we just don't. There is a certain amount of privilege in various respects associated with being normal. The world is built for them and largely optimized for them. You can view that as a reward, or as a punishment for us.

@Angela - yeah my Facebook page is a pretty good representation of my life right now - it's queer as hell. It's also alive and full of people, things, and issues I care about. My vanilla FB profile is mostly dead.

I'm ok - I think I'm mostly dysphoric over growing my beard out for electrolysis on Monday. It bothers me a lot. I think what's going on with me is that as I'm learning to be a woman in society, I take in good lessons and bad ones. I don't think it is ever a bad thing to be who you really are. But society generally seems to disagree with that, so sometimes it's hard to sort the good stuff from the crap.

[Kathryn Martin]

..."normal" people don't get a prize for being normal..and neither do we!!

I really like that. I have no desire to stand out in any sense of the word. This was my goal from the very get go. In this sense all the irregular experiences that I have had before my transition were just that irregular. Now what I experience, how I experience the world around me, my emotional interactions with everything are just how they should have been for my whole life. Courage actually means "with heart" and in that sense anyone who lives his or her life with heart is courageous.

[LeaP]

I'm ok - I think I'm mostly dysphoric over growing my beard out for electrolysis on Monday. It bothers me a lot.

Do I sympathize with that! I sit here writing this in the garage, having just having returned from my electro appointment. Because of weather, I was put off a day, then two days, then four until today… I hadn't shaved in a week, was incredibly self-conscious, and looked like a moth-eaten velveteen rabbit – without the cute features or nostalgic connections. Ugh.

(start yesterday)

[PaulaQ]

I really like that. I have no desire to stand out in any sense of the word. This was my goal from the very get go.

It's interesting because "to not stand out" is all I've ever wanted from this life. And yet, I always have in so many ways. If I could've had a super-power of my choosing, it would have been invisibility.

Well, I really stand out now, and my differences are undeniable. I've never fit in, so it's just dumb to worry about it now. I've never been one of them, and they aren't like me, either. I don't care much anymore. Fitting in is clearly not my purpose.

I'm feeling better today. Worrying about stuff I have absolutely no control over is really unproductive. For those of you who fit in, God bless you, and I'm happy for you. As for me, I have too much to do to sit around feeling sorry for myself, which I've done entirely too much of this past week or two.

[Michelle789]

1. What is normal? Is anyone truly normal? Even someone with a seemingly normal life could be missing some aspect of it, at least temporarily. Let's start with 50% of all cis-male to cis-female marriages that end in divorce. Maybe being divorced or single is the "new normal".

2. I always felt out of place too. Even if I appear to fit in I still often feel out of place. Sometimes I feel like I'm too interesting and the world is boring, and other times I feel like I'm actually too boring (and withdrawn) from a world that's interesting and full of life. I feel like I fluctuate from extremes of over-the-top behavior to not having lived enough life.

3. After I transition, I'm not sure if I want to go stealth or be openly trans. It's too early for me to make that decision. Is see pros and cons to both. If I go stealth (assuming I've had all surgeries and pass well) I still run the risk of someone finding out, and stress caused by worrying that someone else may find out. Wait, I worry whether I get read as trans (or gay) and I'm not out to anyone yet. If I stay out as trans then I risk being socially ostracized or being viewed as an "other" by others.

4. My family was not normal at all, we always stood out, but in a boring, death like way. My family seems to be completely withdrawn from any world other than their own dysfunctional puppet show. We don't have police at the door, and no one is going to jail or pregnant, and no drugs, just internal strife, fighting, and people who think they're better than everyone else and that every aspect of the normal world is screwed up. A group of people that makes no attempt to fit in with anyone. They're like misfits even among misfits.

Edit: I'm the only alcoholic in my immediate family, and I never drank when I visited them (which was only a few weeks out of the year when I was in college).

[Inna]

As I am fashionably late to this thread I shall post a sentence or two.

As a child I dreamed of the day I will wake up a girl, a woman. As I had found out later, much later, I really was a woman, however, bestowed with the burden of genetic proportion.
So, when I embraced the rebirth, I also had given all out to the truth about me, that I was a woman after all!
In my eyes all I did was to finally allow my self peace of being who I always was.

Now, after all that treacherous strive, I have become whole, I live every day, every situation, as I am, a woman.

Do I need to erase the past? No, I simply go on as the past doesn't really matter any more.
If someone would bring out the past, I simply tell the tale, as I had experienced it, I have never yet had anyone suddenly toss me away for such. However, if they do, it shan't be a burden on to me, I made peace with deceit, denial and delusion, everything now is only NOW!

[Jorja]

Do I need to erase the past? No, I simply go on as the past doesn't really matter any more.

I am glad someone on this forum finally gets it. Live for today. The past you can't change and the future is only a dream.

[Barbie Anne]

Yep I agree with Jorja and her quote of Inna; In the words of my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein;......"Carpe that old Diem" my dear.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The more philosophical part of this discussion has more practical value for us the earlier you transition and less you've invested in other people as a male.

The past is always there when you kids are calling you dad or your alimony check is overdue.

However, I can't say enough how "normal" it feels to me for my kids to call me dad... it feels more normal now that I've transitioned than before.

[PaulaQ]

Sure, in my own case, I have no intention of attempting to erase the past. More of the past lies behind me than future lies ahead of me, at this point.

I suppose there's no really general answer to the questions I ask here - some people will accept me, some won't. I've had some very authentic feeling discussions with women - conversations that genuinely seemed improbable to me unless they believed on some level that I'm a woman, even with women who knew of my past. On the other hand, I know of people in my past who simply don't accept me, and probably never will.

As for being upset that I can't go back to the world I used to live in, all I can really say is "good riddance." I hated that life, and I hated most of the people in it, with the exceptions of my friends and family. You know, change is hard and all, but stressing about the loss of something I didn't like in the first place really is pretty dumb. Feelings are illogical a lot of times, what can I say?

I'm enjoying so many things about my life now - how many people can really say that?

[Pink Person]

I'm normal compared to most of the people who are like me. If I try to think about it any harder then I get a headache.