Is this feeling very common among y'all?

[Christinedreamer]

Although I consider myself a CD to some extent (very few fully dressed /made-up excursions) just around the house. I found that even as a teenager I was very attracted to CDs/TGs and TS ladies. Males who appear as men hold zero interest for me and I am not really interested in a sexual encounter. I just enjoy the company and being a chivalrous gentleman. I did date a professional FI in the Washington DC area and we did have a "relationship" but even when she was not en femme as a performer, I still regarded her as innately feminine and lady-like. I have also had a long term relationship with a star from the old Queen mary showroom. We never did anything of a "personal" nature but just being with her and necking put me on cloud nine.

I KNOW the "plumbing" is there and that is is male, BUT I am attracted to the person, not the plumbing.

Perhaps as I am quite ordinary looking -aside from being a big guy- and being a techno geek in the professional audio visual business all my life sort of kept me away from opportunities to attract ladies and the TS folks were also frequently outsiders on the social scene, we kind of gravitated towards each other.

Anyone else in this conundrum?

BTW, clownish drag queens are NOT attractive in any way. In fact they repulse me. True female impersonators are a different story.

[Jenniferathome]

nope. never. not into dudes, wrote the dude in a dress.

[Katey888]

Hi Christine - there's been a few threads around about this lately, and it's a question that intrigues me - from a purely academic perspective as I don't have any attraction towards men in any form of presentation - so, I'm not in your conundrum, I'm afraid.
I can understand your proposition that you are attracted to the person, and that when that individual expresses a female persona, you are being attracted to that aspect, even when the individual is not dressed. Perhaps you are just of a nature where you naturally don't care about the anatomical gender, but see what the individual's true nature is?

Don't ask me how to categorise that though... :eek: And forgive the question, but in this context you've described, do you consider yourself bi..?
BTW - I think a valid answer could be no..

Interesting... Katey x

[Adriana Moretti]

yes...lotta these threads popping up...then amazingly disappearing.. ..hope we can keep the labels,gender bashing,and sexual orientation opinions in order this time...play nice.

[Barbie Anne]

While I can appreciate feminine beauty in either sex, I am only attracted to genetic girls. But after having lived 49 years with at least 40 of them knowing I was not "normal" by societal standards, I DO NOT JUDGE :)
Being comfortable in your own skin is key, and to hell with what other people think. Life's too short to care about other people's interpretation of you. If you're happy with who and what you are that's what counts.
By the way I love that dress and used to have a similar one in baby pink with white trim/petticoats :)

[AndreaCD1963]

I think in this case, if you were to affix a label to it, what you are describing is "pansexual".

"The concept of pansexuality rejects the gender binary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_binary), the "notion of two genders and indeed of specific sexual orientations", as pansexual people are open to relationships with people who do not identify as strictly men or women"

To answer the original question - I wouldn't call it a conundrum, but rather a choice. So no, I don't see myself in that "conundrum" at all.

[RADER]

I like girls, and girls clothes, in short anything female, and female only.
Thats just me.
Rader

[LenGray]

Don't know if I'm in your situation or not, but...

I dress as a boy and am attracted to both sexes, though I prefer androgynous types. Men that look feminine or women that look masculine. I don't really know what to classify myself as though lol

I feel as though my relationships with women have been far more healthy than my relationships with men but all in all, I don't decide who I'm going to be in a relationship with based off of whether they're a man or woman. However, I'm not attracted to manly men or femme women in the least. *shrug*

I suppose it's whatever floats your boat :)

[ReineD]

Here's an interesting article:

Men Who Might Like MtFs (http://aliceingenderland.com/menwhomightbeinterested.html)

The author is Alice Novic (aka Dr. Richard Novic), a psychiatrist who lives in LA. Alice leads an openly trans life and is the author of "Alice in Genderland: A Crossdresser Comes of Age (http://www.amazon.com/Alice-Genderland-Crossdresser-Comes-Age/dp/0595315623)".

[Jenniferathome]

I can't buy into any of this Reine. She chooses her own definition of gay:

"“But aren’t all admirers really gay?” the most naive among us ask. “Certainly not,” I say. The word gay, at least according to gay people, describes something very specific: men attracted men—in male form. It does not describe any man who does anything non-straight,"

By the transitive property then, a gay man, one who readily admits he is gay but finds a MtF cross dresser attractive, is NOT GAY! Come on. That's nonsense. This woman is clearly building a defense mechanism to justify her lifestyle. Too convenient. And to the gay men here who are cross dressers and/or date cross dressers, bad news: you are now straight. Go figure.

[Katey888]

Jennifer - I don't think the article is that explicit and please let's not get into one of those off-topic, logicial positivism arguments... We've all got opinions but let's see if we can hear some more... (I'm interested in this thread staying open, like Adriana implied earlier...) :)

Thank you... :D

Katey x

[FairyLink]

I am attracted to male plumbing and disgusted by female plumbing. I don't really want to go into detail because last time I posted on one of these threads it disappeared and I don't know if it's because of something I said because I'm new here. I am attracted to genetic males only, but in all forms including dressed up. I would never be with a trans person for the possibility of plumbing change.

Even though sex isn't that important to me, for most people it's a deal breaker. This means that I can't ever be with anyone who has female parts or plans to,have female parts in the future because they will be sexually frustrated due to lack of.

I hope I didn't say anything offensive. I am truly sorry if I did.

[Kate Simmons]

I usually cut to the chase as I'm empathic, that is sense the feelings of others. When I care for someone I care for them as a person and their feelings. These are no textbooks to explain this, you either feel it or you don't. In any case, the plumbing has very little to do with it per se, it's mostly the person I care for.:)

[ReineD]

I can't buy into any of this Reine. She chooses her own definition of gay

Jennifer, I don't think Alice is saying that gay men who like MtFs are not gay. Actually, how many gay men do like MtFs? Aren't most of them attracted to men who look like men? We had a long running and well attended thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?138715-hey-how-are-my-gay-male-crossdressers-doing&highlight=gay+homosexual+members) some years ago in which many of our gay members participated. Most of them said that they experienced just as many difficulties getting their boyfriends to accept the CDing as do hetero CDers who are married to GGs.

At any rate, Alice classifies men who like MtFs into three major categories:



1) straight men who can tolerate our being trans, (bisexuals?)
2a) admirers who perceive us as women with some sort of advantage
2b) admirers drawn to us because they are trans at heart.


There's a lot more to it and I found the article educational.

[JazT95]

This question is a funny one for me. I consider myself to be bisexual, but I only find men attractive when dressed as a girl and vice versa - like I switch between personalities or something. I hope that makes sense, don't ask me to explain it any better because in truth, I don't understand it at all :(

But to answer your initial question, I don't find other CDs or TSs attractive at all.

[Taylor Ray]

As a bisexual cross dresser I am attracted to both genders and both types of plumbing. I am attracted to men dressed as men and men dressed as women, as well as women dressed as women and women dressed as men.

Maybe we attempt to "categorize" ourselves to help make sense of our world? It is freeing to just be who we are.

[Christinedreamer]

Interesting array of responses. I am not sure I would classify myself as gay or pansexual though. Guys or girls who LOOK/act like stereotypical males do nothing for me at all. Unlike some here, I am rapidly drawn to feminine women and males. NOT effeminate but genuinely feminine. BIG difference.

[Erica Marie]

Ok. So it seems we all must live by titles or we cant live any more. Crossdresser, transgender, bisexual, gay, lesbian, straight, redneck, republican, democrat, NFC, AFC, American League, National League. Do we have to be something.

Cant we just be ourselves?

I have no idea what I am. A male body with a half male/female brain. I like to present both ways when I can and I enjoy the company of ggs and tgs alike. If anyone can please pinpoint what I am or how I fit in, I would be more than happy to hear the answer.

[lovetobedani]

I find the beauty in an attractive well dressed TG/TS/CD as female would another female. Call me a lesbian but, I'm only sexually attracted to GG's or I could be to a post op TS. Males are not attractive to me on any level.

[Beverley Sims]

Every body who have replied here have unique interests.
I am a female admirer and not into men at all.
I just like the clothes.

[Samantha_Smile]

This kind of question seems to crop up a lot.
And here's my spin on the matter.
If a person presents as an attractive female, then they are (in the eye of the beholder) an attractive female.
If a crossdressed male is convincing to the point of sexual attraction, so be it.

I'm not attracted to men or masculinity. From my own way of life and personal experience, men smell bad, are not pretty, do not dress well, and have stubble etc etc.
But on occasion, I've seen pictures of 'girls' I later found out to be trans in some way (-vestite, -gender or -sexual) and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't physically attracted to them.
Does that mean I'm gay? Probably not, maybe a slight percentage bi.
As the OP, Christine said;
"I KNOW the "plumbing" is there and that is is male, BUT I am attracted to the person, not the plumbing. "

I think it comes down to whether you have your own personal insecurities and problems with your sexuality.
If you embrace the fact that you might be a tiny bit Bi in terms of black and white genders, then you have no problems, just accept it and move on.
If this means time for personal reflection on the matter, then take it.
Go look at porn on the net and see what floats you boat.

I wish you all the best -x-

[Hell on Heels]

I'm not into guys at all, but comfortable enough to admit that I can recognize a good looking guy.
He may not be good looking to you or anyone else, who knows what we each consider to be attractive.
The same could be said for the GG's I meet.
I'm not quite sure what the conundrum is, if your attraction turns into a relationship with that person,
why would you care if that person were Gay, Straight, Lesbian, Bi, or Trans. You could be missing out on something special.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[ElisabethK]

For me I would say I'm not attracted to men (or masculinity) at any time. However, I do like the idea of doing "double crossdressing" with a female parter (dressing masculine and taking that role). I only have an interest in that while dressed though, and I've always attributed it to being a way to feeling more feminine and taking that role more.

[Lynn Marie]

I have a dozen CD girlfriends and maybe another dozen CD acquaintances. I see them all as females. This is common for all of us. Sexualy I'm partial to women, but my CD friends have a lot less baggage!

[docrobbysherry]

At a private T friendly party.

She's quite fem in her face, voice, and has breast implants. Been on hormones for some time and says she'll have SRS when she can afford it.:battingeyelashes:

The rest of her figure is not very fem. I find I'm not attracted to her but, fascinated with how fem her mannerisms, thot, and speech r. When we fooled around, it felt like I was with a woman. :eek:

I'm pretty homophobic when it comes to sexual attraction. So much so that I go to great extremes to avoid anything male appearing in my mirror.

I can't really explain this anomaly! :straightface:

[PaulaQ]

@DocRobbySherry - the reason you "felt like you were with a women when you fooled around with her" is really simple. She is a woman! Surprisingly enough, some women are born with penises.

[sonialexis]

I have been attracted to other cds, androgynous, feminine and effeminate men. I have not had sex, don't even want to because I'm not attracted to the plumbing at all. No TSs for me, I just want to have some fun. I don't have to be dressed. Just some girly time together. I've asked this question to myself many times as to whether I'm bi. I could be but sex with a man is out for me. I've had 3 encounters, where I've questioned my sexuality. damn.. as if I don't have problems already.

[Marcelle]

Hi Christine,

Very interesting thread and I agree with others . . . it is not a conundrum if you feel good about yourself and those you are with . . . you are just sharing a loving relationship with someone who shares that love in return. I am not going to go down the whole label road as I thing that has been done to death already in this thread and I don't think your OP was about labelling :)

In reading your post, I get the impression you are talking about relationship and support from the other person. By our very nature we (humans) are social creatures and we strive to have kinship. Sometimes that kinship is purely friendship and sometimes it is more. You have transcended to "more" with these gals you date and involve yourself with. You don't see gender (plumbing), you see the person for who they are "someone you find interesting, someone you are attracted to and someone you wish to share with" That is the basis of a good relationship and there is nothing wrong with that.

I for one am glad for you that you can find such affinity and say continue if it makes you feel good . . . don't worry about the label. :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[sherri]

I was so naïve when I started. As a card-carrying hetero (with maybe just a smidgeon of latent homo interest), I think I just sorta knew instinctively that finding an interested woman would be tough and so I began to explore the gay dynamic -- which of course soon led to a bunch of other bubbles bursting. :-) Over time, that exploration has led to a far more open and genuine attraction to guys, but only as CD + guy, never guy + guy. Unfortunately, while my feelings have changed, very little meaningful interaction has developed beyond platonic friendships, so now I'm thinking that CD + CD might be the best shot for a relationship worth having, and I find that as I've opened myself up to that line of thought the emotional and physical attraction to a "sister" is not a stretch at all. In fact, it's pretty enticing. The only downside is that in IME CDers typically come with TONS of baggage and/or issues that complicate things way more than they should.

[MaryBeth29]

I love women so much I not only want to be with them, I sometimes want to be one of them. That said, as I have discovered this other side of myself, I have found myself drawn to the male plumbing, but not the actual male. It's all so very confusing, and doubtful that I'll ever take any action on my new found interest, but there's something about dressing that has awoken this strange curiosity.

[Anna H]

If I'm going to dress up like a girl, I'd hope I could be at least somewhat attractive.
Or at least, that's part of the goal...?

I can be Very attracted to someone, but I may be strange in that I don't think
of that in terms of being sexual. Aren't we the ones that know the difference
between sex and gender as well as anyone?

I see pictures of Gorgeous ladies here. Just Stunningly Beautiful. I compliment
them, admire them, even be a little playfully flirty with them. They're attractive.
But that in No way means I think *sex* when I see or play with them.

In a perfect world, I'd love to have them as friends and go about normally
shopping etc. Others may see us and assume there's more to it than there
is and that's one of many details that makes life difficult for lots of us.

I can't speak for anyone else, but just because I'm attracted to one of
us, I feel like that's normal. I only know them as the girl they present themselves
to be. They're very attractive. I don't desire to marry them, though. I'm
aware of reality.

I see us as girls, so I can't help but be attracted. I'd Love to work in an
office full of CD's. That'd be fun to be around Pretty Girls all day, but know
there's safety in that no romance would ever come of it...(for me anyway)

If my personal orientation were anything other than what it is, I'd most
absolutely certainly be one to say so and be what I was. People always have,
and I guess always will, put me in their own version of a category. If they
were to ask which box I go into and accept that, they'd almost always be
surprised. The trick is getting them to accept what I'm telling them.

I hope no one takes my compliments and playfulness as anything more
than it is. I assume that's common and understood....

:happy: ♥

[PaulaQ]

I see pictures of Gorgeous ladies here. Just Stunningly Beautiful. I compliment
them, admire them, even be a little playfully flirty with them. They're attractive.
But that in No way means I think *sex* when I see or play with them.


There's an old joke that I think applies to this thread:
Q: What's the difference between a straight cross dresser and a gay cross dresser?
A: About two beers!


Now I don't mean that for real - I don't think it's accurate at all, just a joke.

But I will say that you might surprise yourself when meeting other CD / TG / TS girls in person. There are men who are really NOT gay, but who nevertheless are extremely attracted to transgender women. Nobody really knows why this is - but it is a reality. There is a whole sub-genre of porn dedicated to this, as doubtless many folks on this forum know, but mostly won't admit to. (Although I'm ashamed now, I admit I viewed this stuff before - I found transgender women to be attractive, although I never attempted to meet one in person.)

And I can tell you that attraction to another trans woman came as a big surprise to me. A little while after I started HRT, I started to really notice men. This was new to me - I'd never been attracted to men at all. I thought to myself, "well, this is a surprise, but I guess I'm a straight girl after all." (Sexuality is confusing for me on HRT.) I knew another trans woman in one of the support groups I attend. I thought maybe she had a crush on me - but that didn't make sense, because she was dating various guys. (She had fun stories about this.)

One night, at dinner with our support group, after the meeting, she just gently caressed my shoulder as she passed behind me. It almost was an accidental touch, but it wasn't. It was very, very gentle. And it sent electricity through me, butterflies in my stomach, and we've basically been inseparable ever since. I have never experienced such a strong attraction to another person in my entire life. It is like nothing I've ever felt before.

So why I don't think this is the same as being attracted to men:
1. We both identify as women. But let's face it - you can argue that we both have penises, so we're men right? (BTW, if you dare to make this argument to me, well, you won't much care what I say to you in reply.)
2. We're not interested in the plumbing. Seriously, it barely works thanks to HRT. (Mine mostly doesn't work *at all*.) We view each other as women, and our relations are more like those of lesbians. (We'll both be happier with each other after SRS.)
3. There are men who are interested in us - but they are not the gay men in my area. I live in gay central in Dallas - believe me, if you want to have sex with another male, this is the place to get it. The gay guys I know consider me a woman, and talk to me like one, sometimes confiding stuff to me that they wouldn't share with another guy.

I think we are visual creatures, and so the notion that what's in someone's pants, something you can't see, would trump their appearance seems pretty silly to me. Sure, there are guys who are going to be totally turned off once they discover the girl they took out has a penis. Some guys no doubt decide that "yeah, ok, not usually my bag, bug damn, she's so hot, I'll do her anyway." And there are men who extremely attracted to the unique anatomical characteristics of transgender women (either CDs or TS) and who are NOT attracted to other men.

I think what's going on here is largely distinct from what's commonly considered "gay". These are generally straight acting, straight appearing men, who date either genetic women (but are generally unsatisfied), or TG women.

Anyway, it's no surprise really that some of us should be numbered amongst them, and be attracted to TG women.

I've omitted talking about gay CDs. There are some. I talk to a number of gay girls on this forum. I think that is probably a different situation still.

[Audrey Sis]

My take from years of interweb forums on CDing, as well as outside research, is that there IS no "y'all"... as in the population in general, we hit a wide variety of points on interwoven bell curves of gender and sexuality.
My personal experience is that I've slowly evolved, or grown, or changed, whatever, to a more open stance, meaning that while years ago I knew I wanted ONLY to be with GGs, I now at times entertain the notion of being with a CD. Total honesty is that would be for fun rather than a long term relationship. THAT said, I never have been one for one-night stands. Now, did all that parse?

[Vickie_CDTV]

Sherry, maybe it is because you saw in her what you want in yourself, that is, her mannerisms and such, and the notion of having that is a turn on.

... and, at the risk of sounding cold, well, it might also have been the fact she was available and interested, and there was no interested GG available. Some males can be flexible in their sexuality when GGs are not an option.

[Crissy Kay]

I guess this does go for me too, to a degree. I am very attracted to some of the cd girls that I see on flikr, and some other cd sites.