Why do people choose to keep their crossdressing a secret?

[MsVal]

In a post titled Apologizing to my spouse. TroublesGalore wrote of being wrong in assuming her wife's beliefs regarding crossdressing.

That post brought up some interesting questions in my mind for those that have not disclosed their crossdressing to their wife/SO/girlfriend:

Could you be wrong about your belief that it is better to keep it a secret?
Could you be misjudging her, giving her less credit for love & understanding than she deserves?
Could you be harboring needless anxiety and stress, or is the anxiety and stress a positive addition to the excitement of crossdressing?


I do not want to imply that the decision to disclose one's legitimate need to crossdress should be taken lightly. This can be, by many first hand accounts, an incredibly difficult discussion. It has lead to the breakup of otherwise solid marriages.

Nor do I wish to demean those that have not disclosed, or encourage any kind of disclosure. Only you know your specific situation and it would be most foolish for someone else, particularly me to claim a higher ground.

Why do people choose to keep their crossdressing a secret?

Best wishes
MsVal

[Brittany CD]

Personally I find it better not to bring it up, it can be really loaded for people and can bring up so many questions. I might mention that I enjoy wearing women's clothes if a girl I know is absolutely okay with a guy dressing in private, but I like to keep my girl side separate from the guy life

[Secret Drawer]

It must be assumed that fear is the number one factor here. After a lifetime of living in the closet, many are completely unprepared to reveal this secret. It is likely to be a much bigger deal in our own heads then to others around us, including our spouses. However, this fear of the unknown (how our spouses will react) plus this dwelling in our own heads issue can overwhelm many. People who are within the huge world of crossdressing, from fetishists to full blown gender dysphoric trans(folk), all have individual reason to fear this disclosure. For some it becomes a necessity, for some it never really would matter either way.
To answer your specific questions, I feel it is likely that considering the utter relief you feel after coming out of the closet, that it is wrong to believe it is BETTER to keep it a secret. (You may HAVE to keep it a secret, but in a perfect scenerio it would be better not to!)
The second question is more difficult and case by case. Some couples can really read each other on a deep emotional level, and KNOW that their SO will have a hard time with it, but maybe for others it is an unfounded fear, but it is hard to say.
I think anyone who is in the closet about anything is harboring potentially huge doses of anxiety and stress, and in my own way of thinking about anxiety and stress, I would much much rather live without either of them, so personally those feelings do not add to my crossdressing enjoyment.

[samantha rogers]

How very ironic. I am going through this very process, and we are essentially neighbors, honey.:battingeyelashes:
Another SE Mi member here.
For me, it was a mixture of things, and honestly I am still not 100% sure I have done the right thing by confessing, but, well...that geni can't go back in the bottle. LOL
I kept it deeply and totally secret from her for more than twenty years, through the normal purchase/purge cycles and the hills and valleys of euphoria and self loathing. I was always fearful before of losing her, but also, of bringing her pain that might simply be avoided by my continued silence. In recent years, though, and finally, I have reached acceptance of myself, and an understanding and love for this side of me. In the process the strain of living a lie with her became simply too much to bear. I have yet to see where this train is going. There have been a lot of tears...I expect more to come. One day at a time. You know?
PS - GO Tigers!:)

[Dianne S]

I do not keep it a secret from my wife; I told her before we were married. I've also told my mother.

However, I do keep it a secret from my kids. I feel that right now they're too young to deal with a crossdressing dad. I'm not ashamed of what I do, but I don't want to place the burden of my crossdressing on them. If they tell peers, they're likely to suffer ridicule and I do not want to burden them with having to keep a secret, so it's best not to go there.

[MaryBeth29]

For me, I guess I have to differentiate between people knowing my interest in crossdressing without actually seeing me versus knowing and seeing. I have absolutely no problem when I'm out shopping for clothing for myself mentioning to the SAs that I'm shopping for myself, so in that that sense, I do not keep it a secret. However, I don't bring it up to people in my life, because: 1) I'm still discovering myself, 2) I'm a very private person (so no one has actually seen me dressed), and 3) It's just not a topic that feels appropriate to bring up in many situations.

[JazT95]

For me, it might be a lil bit of 'fear of the unknown' like previously mentioned. But I also find that I live a perfectly happy life as a guy, and I'm scared that coming out about dressing might in some way compromise that. All that considered, it just makes sense for me to keep everything separate.

[Karren H]

I think most peoples fears aren't rooted in reality....... and based on my wifes reactions.... their fears are way way understated! WAY!

[Rachael Leigh]

For many reputation is everything and to shatter that with revealing what is still taboo for many would just not work, yes society is becoming more accepting but I understand the part to keep it hidden. I know I do want to be more open but with my wife who does not accept this I have to respect that and I don't want to push it on my family who Im sure would just reject it anyway and I don't really need that.
So I come here for safety instead.
Hugs Leigh

[Katey888]

Speaking personally (is there any other way..? :doh:) three principal reasons:

1) The general stigma and misunderstanding associated with CD/TG folk

2) The potential pain and misunderstanding that may be undergone by close family, specifically my wife (who has enough to deal with)

3) The impact of that on my career and potential job prospects as well as charitable work undertaken for the local community

Secret Drawer said it right for me when she said it may be better in some ways to be honest, but it is not necessarily the right thing to do, depending on circumstances.

And you too MsVal - you are right to highlight that we each as individuals have to make a choice and live with that choice. It is ours and ours alone and we live with the potential consequences both ways.

I don't think I would have revealed as much as I have on this site if I was still pursuing an active career - but then the need that I feel can be satisfied with just a few hours a week... For others where the drive is much stronger the decision to supress that is much more difficult and I truly feel for those in that situation.

Katey x

[deebra]

Embarassment

[LovelyGeek]

I agree with what most other people here already said. Fear.
Fear of rejection I would say is the reason most people don't bring it up.
I know that was it for me - and the fact that I had not told anyone ever in my life, the 20+ years I knew I was a CD.

The interesting part is that when I finally told my wife - she was sad that I hadn't told her sooner because she wants to support me.
Totally not the reaction I thought she was going to have.

But yeah, Fear.

[Adriana Moretti]

Everyone has different reasons...and all i read in here are great...as a happily single gal Katey's #3 rings true for me


3) The impact of that on my career and potential job prospects as well as charitable work undertaken for the local community

[heatherdress]

I did not crossdress when married to my exwife - but if I did, I would not have told her, could not have told her. I knew her quite well - and I knew how narrow-minded she was.

Further, it was more than trust, or honesty or willingness to communicate. I tried and had professional help. But I could not share even simple feelings with her. She had no empathy. She was abusive and controlling.

It would be great if all relationships and marriages were healthy, if we all had open-minded spouses and SOs, if we could share all our feelings and desires with them, if we had good communications skills, if we were not concerned about children, if we did not want to hurt someone we love because we know this would hurt them, if we were not worried about family or neighbors, if we did not worry about discovery effecting our jobs.

We select secrecy even though we risk possible discovery. We decide to keep crossdressing a secret, perhaps best answered because we have to.

[traci_k]

Fear - told my wife I'm transgender - we're on the verge of splitting up like many others here. CDing would not have been any different. Granted my wife is on the extreme edge of fundamentalist, but some will not accept anything.

Those of you wife supportive SO's Trasure them.

Hugs,

[Alice Torn]

It would certainly let off tons of pent up stress, grief, frustration, and pressure, to come out to toxic family, of origin, which, sadly is my only physical family, and many others, but the flip side would be constant harrassment, and ridicule, and misunderstandings, more isolation, in an already lonely, isolated life.

[Christina Kay]

Kept it secret from my wife for 30+ yrs! came out last October. Until just the last few days , would regret the decision almost daily. Things are starting to really be better ,much more accepting of who I really am. Still a slow process,but very encouraging. Fortunately my wife has always been such an empathetic woman. I surmise from doing some research about the Tg/Ts persona she is becoming more understanding though apprehensive at times. I now am truly being who I have always needed to be. I am so lucky to be the girl iam now. For me it's the mannerisms I need to express most. The dressing is just the frosting on the cake, but then again I really love frosting:battingeyelashes:

[RADER]

My late Wife was OK with my dressing, however society just does not accept the fact that some men
like to wear womans clothes. So Embarrassment is the rill of the land.
Over the years, I have built up a high level of respectability, and if people around me saw me wearing
a dress; well my respect would be gone in an instance. I worked very hard to achieve tis, so thats why I am in the closet.
Rader

[AllieSF]

I would add another question to your list:


Could one have thoroughly weighed the pros and cons, the risks and rewards, and the strong need or smaller need to disclose and decided that it was not the thing to do?

Your questions seem to be focusing on excuses and ignore that there can be some very valid reasons for not telling. And yes, there can be valid reasons.

Everyone has to make their own decision based on their own unique circumstances. No one on the outside really knows what is at risk and what will actually happen after the big reveal, including the revealer.

I believe that one should, if they can, tell at least their long term SO and especially their spouse if married. However, I know some personal circumstances of friends where telling meant or could mean loosing, and loosing very big. In one case the person lost the access to his children for many years as Mom decided to leave the country with them after the divorce. So that person lost his children and then lost financially because the ex-wife refused to let him get the children Social Security numbers so that he could at least take the large child support as a income tax deduction.

We can recommend but we can not and should not "insist' nor coerce others to do what we think is best for them.

[Beverley Sims]

To stay married and keep family peace.
To avoid ridicule.
Perceived and real shame.
I could go on.

[sometimes_miss]

Could you be wrong about your belief that it is better to keep it a secret?
I don't know; if you want to be 'out', then it's not better to keep it a secret. But if you want to avoid confrontations, then it IS better to keep it a secret.

Could you be misjudging her, giving her less credit for love & understanding than she deserves?
Only you will know. There's a lot of seemingly accepting women who change their opinion about crossdressers when it's THEIR male mate who suddenly wants to wear women's clothes and behave as a female (I'm one of them). It's the NIMBY syndrome.

Could you be harboring needless anxiety and stress, or is the anxiety and stress a positive addition to the excitement of crossdressing?
Anxiety and stress is the result of considering all the negative results of coming out to someone. It has the potential for completely destroying everything in your current life as you know it. In a matter of days, you can lose your SO, your family, your friends, your job, your credit, and all your assets, should your SO be very pissed off about your 'fooling her' about who you are. Sure, it doesn't always happen like that, but there are plenty of men who have had similar experiences.
NO IT DOESN'T HAPPEN TO EVERYONE. I NEVER WROTE THAT. BUT IT IS CERTAINLY POSSIBLE! DON'T SAY YOU WEREN'T WARNED, BECAUSE COMING OUT TO A SO IS A ONE WAY TRIP AKIN TO GOING OVER NIAGRA FALLS IN A BARREL. There's no going back; unless, of course, you change your name and move far away, or go into witness protection programs. This has been a public service announcement.

[Dani0948]

Some of us that reveal wind up in a better situation and some worse. You really are throwing the dice. As much as I would like to believe that my wife of 29 years would be accepting, I'm just not sure. If she's not accepting, then the best I can hope for is DADT (not really better than now). I still hope to reveal later this year, but may not, as I will not put more stress into her life just so I can dress.

[Kate Simmons]

Some are concerned with repercussions for themselves and their families if it was generally known. Just remember: "A secret known to two is no longer a secret." :)

[Tracii G]

Some people just don't feel the need to scream it from the roof tops or force/demand everyone to understand/accept why they dress.
Not any of my business to be honest.Its up to each person as to what they choose to do.

[MsVal]

Wow, I didn't expect this kind of response, and didn't have time to follow up on them yesterday.

I'll summarize and throw in my thoughts.

Secret Drawer said:

After a lifetime of living in the closet, many are completely unprepared to reveal this secret. It is likely to be a much bigger deal in our own heads then to others around us, including our spouses. However, this fear of the unknown (how our spouses will react) plus this dwelling in our own heads issue can overwhelm many.

Fear, sometimes exaggerated, seems to be the prevailing reason for many to keep it a secret.

Samantha Rogers wrote:

I was always fearful before of losing her, but also, of bringing her pain that might simply be avoided by my continued silence. In recent years, though, and finally, I have reached acceptance of myself, and an understanding and love for this side of me. In the process the strain of living a lie with her became simply too much to bear.

This resonates with me. I too recently disclosed to my wife my desire to wear feminine clothing. It hurt her badly and it hurt me to be the source of her pain. It was more than falling down on my "manly" duty to protect her, I was causing the hurt. (P.S. Hi neighbor)

Dawn03 revealed it her wife and few others because:

I do not want to burden them with having to keep a secret

MaryBeth29 is "still discovering myself"

I can identify with that, and I imagine many others can too.

Karren Hutton took a different approach:

I think most peoples fears aren't rooted in reality....... and based on my wifes reactions.... their fears are way way understated! WAY!

While I (and others, I'm sure) are extremely delighted to read of Karren's successful disclosure, I know from my own experience that it isn't always that way.

LeighR must have disclosed it to her wife. Her wife is not accepting and she respects her wife's feelings.

Katey888 brought up three good points:

1) The general stigma
2) The potential pain [to others]
3) The impact ... on my career ... charitable work ... local community

#1 You're right about about that, and nothing will change it in the short term.
#2 Your wife already has too much on her plate, it is noble to want to protect her.
#3 You have to earn a living. Some career paths and charities are incompatible with any kind of "deviant" behavior.
(P.S. That's a WONDERFUL photo. I'm envious.)

LovelyGeek got quite a surprise when she disclosed to her wife:

when I finally told my wife - she was sad that I hadn't told her sooner because she wants to support me. Totally not the reaction I thought she was going to have.

HeatherDress told of his wife, with whom it was difficult to communicate:

We select secrecy even though we risk possible discovery. We decide to keep crossdressing a secret, perhaps best answered because we have to.

Alice Torn: "constant harrassment, and ridicule, and misunderstandings, more isolation"

Alice grew up in a very difficult family and what little relations still exist are already strained. I wish you well, Alice

Aretha had a bad disclosure that took four months to turn positive:

Kept it secret from my wife for 30+ yrs! came out last October. ... Things are starting to really be better ,much more accepting of who I really am.

I am hoping to be able to report the same thing in the months ahead. Like you, I am doing all I know, all I can, to be the best husband that I can be.

RADER said it is about the loss of respect:
"if people around me saw me wearing a dress; well my respect would be gone in an instance"

Sometimes_Miss provided a valuable Public Service Announcement regarding the very real possibility of losing not only a spouse, but access to children, and financial loss.

The forum has reports of many of those unfortunate cases. My heart is heavy with each one I read.

Dani0948 calls it a gamble, but a gamble she will take some time this year.

Go big, Dani, or go home.

Thanks everyone for your participation in my little query.

I did not get an answer to number three. Perhaps I worded it poorly. It may be the topic of another new post.

Is the excitement of closet crossdressing made even more exciting by the knowledge that it is a secret? Is it like driving fast on a winding road, with tires squealing on the turns? Danger may be right around the next turn, and the knowledge of that possibility makes it even more exciting?

Best wishes
MsVal

[Audrey Sis]

A little late, but: I shared this part of myself with my ex-wife Before we married or even got very serious. However, that wasn't until I was 28 years old. I feared ridicule and social ostracization before that. Now I still keep it to myself mostly, though I did post it on facebook last year lol... long time friends were supportive. I never would keep it from an SO, but for me that openness is necessary because I don't "perform" well without it.

[Robin777]

I do not keep my crossdressing secret from my wife, I like Dawn03 told my wife before we were married. I would never reveal it to my parents, as they would never understand. I also would not reveal it to either one of my brothers as I can just imagine what they would say. My co-workers would probably ridicule and ostracize me. So I don't plan on revealing it. I feel it better staying a privately shared secret between me and my wife. Unless something happens that changes the way society treats us, it is staying a secret. I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

[MsVal]

I did post it on facebook last year lol... long time friends were supportive. I never would keep it from an SO, but for me that openness is necessary because I don't "perform" well without it.

How about that? You feared the worst and got the best. The anxiety would have interfered with intimacy more than the disclosure did. That sounds like a win-win situation, and I am happy for you.



I do not keep my crossdressing secret from my wife ... I would never reveal it to my parents ... would not reveal it to either one of my brothers ... co-workers would probably ridicule and ostracize me. So I don't plan on revealing it. I feel it better staying a privately shared secret between me and my wife. <edits for brevity MV>

I understand, Robin, that's the condition I have at this time. I don't plan to keep it a secret long term though because as hard as it was to keep it a secret from my wife, she now has to carry the burden of a secret. Your situation is unique to you and your wife, but I don't think it is fair to mine.

Best wishes
MsVal

[flatlander_48]

The fundamental problem is that you cannot predict how any given person will react to one's disclosure. That is the problem. You cannot unring a bell. You can say that chances are that someone will respond positively when told, but all that is is a probability; nothing more.

Everyone's situation is different. There may be family, work or social reasons why one may chose not to disclose. Further, one's perceptions of those reasons can vary, person to person. One's perception of the consequences can also vary. It's a complicated situation with a ton of variations. What's right for you may almost be guaranteed to be not so right for someone else...

[Taylor Ray]

In my case, its not a secret. But, like other parts of my life, it isn't something I announce. I guess the question would become more poignant if I wanted to dress in public and present as a woman. Usually when friends come over they get a sense of whats up from the way my place is decorated and the stuff I have.

I have read a lot of posts about CDs with SOs who don't know. That sounds like a difficult situation and sort of a double life, especially if living together. Where would you keep all your dresses, wigs, and panties?

[Candy Cox]

My wife would be very upset, so it is "better" to keep it a secret.
Better since I value keeping the peace and having life be free from fighting and conflict.
So a secret seems a small price compared to making a big problem by trying to get her to accept it.
Candy

[AKADonna]

I had been keeping my Cding completely secret from my wife for about a decade. Last week, though, I was called away from the laptop while on this site and I left the page open. At dinner the next evening, My wife of 30 years said, "We have to talk! I know your little secret". Amazingly, we had a very frank and open discussion for about an hour in which I assured her that my need to dress is not a sexual thing, that I still love her and desire her and that she should not feel threatened. We concluded the discussion with me promising not to ever allow myself to be photographed en femme (for fear of kids and grandkids seeing me on Youtube or Facebook) and that she has no interest in seeing me dressed and to not be seen dressed by family or friends. I understand and fully respect her concerns and I considered this a "good first step" in a journey of many small steps to gain her acceptance and maybe even her support. But that will take time and effort to work through.

Had I answered this question before that conversation, I would have supported just keeping my CD'ing in secret. But, now I am so very relieved that the genie is out of the bottle and, while I must live within constraints, I no longer live in fear of the unknown reaction, which had been my greatest concern. Recognizing that all wives and SO's will not react so calmly and objectively, I am now strongly in the corner of having "the talk" at some point. It has been so fruitful for me and I am now "free" to enjoy my dressing, at home, without fear of discovery.

[rachel_rachel]

I don't keep this part of me a secret as such, I'm just selective with who knows..
I was forced to walk away from doing voluntary work at my local sports club because of it..

I suppose we keep it secret because we live in society that doesn't understand anything but vanilla, and we're surrounded by cavemen.

[Katie_89]

I'm scared to tell people because of repocustions.

[MsVal]

It's a complicated situation with a ton of variations.

Manager training 101: As a manager you will be required to make decisions based on incomplete and inaccurate information, for to wait until all the information is complete and vetted is to wait until the opportunity has passed.

As applied to this topic I think the incomplete and inaccurate information would be how the wife will respond; the opportunity passing would be when she finds out on her own.



In my case, its not a secret. [...] Where would you keep all your dresses, wigs, and panties?

I thought mudflap boxes and left over 5 gallon paint cans were invented for storing things you wanted to hide.


My wife would be very upset, so it is "better" to keep it a secret. [...]
a small price compared to making a big problem by trying to get her to accept it.

Candy says the stress and anxiety of maintaining the secret is less that the stress and anxiety of disclosure.
On the other hand, while disclosure may bring up a whole lot of problems, others report that they largely go away with time, through eventual acceptance or divorce. The stress of maintaining the secret does not.

Best wishes
MsVal

[tfguy]

Robin777,
I agree "I feel it better staying a privately shared secret between me and my wife." The risk is too great to tell any one else.

[MsVal]

... secret from my wife for about a decade [...] "We have to talk! I know your little secret". [...] we had a very frank and open discussion [...] now I am so very relieved [...] I must live within constraints, I no longer live in fear of the unknown reaction [...] I am now strongly in the corner of having "the talk" at some point..

I am thrilled to read of your good fortune Donna. Do you find yourself wishing you had made the disclosure earlier, at a time and place of your choosing?

Best wishes
MsVal


... I'm just selective with who knows. ... I was forced to walk away from doing voluntary work [ ...] we live in society that doesn't understand anything but vanilla.

<Full disclosure: I am a volunteer-holic>
The best thing about losing a volunteer position is the new free time to use for dressing.
HEY! Vanilla is the most popular flavor of ice cream. Oh, wait, that was your point wasn't it?

Best wishes
MsVal


I'm scared to tell people because of repocustions.

Okay, here we are at post number 35 before Katie summarizes reason that most crossdressers don't disclose it to their wife/SO.

Congratulations Katie. You have the courage to admit that you lack courage. (huh?)

Best wishes
MsVal

[Stephanie47]

Fear! Fear of the unknown! You younger forum participants have a lot more access to material that will guide you through life's experiences. I am a mature cross dresser. When I was a teenager in the 1960's it was impossible to find anything concerning sex let alone cross dressing. Yep, there was Playboy magazine guarded by the newsstand proprietor, who would scream at you to "Get away from that magazine." The Kinsey Report was guarded behind the librarian's desk. If you had raging hormones as a teenager, and, you wore your mother's or sister's clothing on occasion, what could you conclude? You do you confide in? There were straight's and "faggots" as guys who wore female clothing were assumed to be. If you were presented with this conflict, how do you reconcile the raging hormones with wearing female clothing? If you think we of the 1960's could present this to a woman, well, you just do not understand the times.

Maybe you thought your wife would cure you. Marrying that sweet girl had to be the cure! Failure! Several years of not having the urge eventually gave way to resumption of something you did not understand. How would a wife react to this disclosure in the 1960's and 1970's. Well, it would have been the boot out the door, shunned by family and friend, beat up by "faggot" haters.

So, we prayed the urge would be driven from us. Fear.

In my case my wife and I played bedroom games and all was well. All was well until she discovered I bought a red Vanity Fair bra. Well, explain that my dear. We did not get divorced. We had the "talk." The telling comment form her was she wished she had not told me of her youthful indiscretions and mistakes. Those indiscretions and mistakes may have driven another male from ever considering her as a mate. I did not turn and run. Why not? Maybe because of my secret which was then years in the past. I still could not reconcile my past behavior.

Now. It's DADT. She knows I cross dress when she is at work. I do have anxiety about it necause DADT means I do not discuss my wardrobe with her. Anxiety over the fact if I pass on before her, she will ultimately discover sixteen Xerox boxes containing heels, dresses (100+), slips (400+), panties, girdles, wigs....... Of course, if passes on first, then my anxiety is transferred to children who know nothing of my cross dressing.

So, the cycle of fear of the unknown reactions will always continue for the vast majority of us.

[Bea A]

My wife knows and I now dress full time at home (more androgynous and no makeup if I go out). What kept me from telling her was simply - FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN. Once I told her, she went through all of the question every other spouse has. She is on this forum, but less active than me. The best asset for her has been the Tri-Ess group we belong to. The leader of our group and is wife have become one of our closest friends. My 1st wife didn't react this way when I told her....

[rachel_rachel]

<Full disclosure: I am a volunteer-holic>
The best thing about losing a volunteer position is the new free time to use for dressing.
HEY! Vanilla is the most popular flavor of ice cream. Oh, wait, that was your point wasn't it?

Best wishes
MsVal

Not too sure about the free time, I just go and make myself busier, work mainly.
Vanilla is a term I use quite a bit for mainstream.. And if doesn't fit in with others.... Like I also said, they need to pick up their knuckles from the ground.

[scarletcd]

For me it's just the area and the type of person who lives around here. Its still quite a sheltered straight male dominated area so to 'come out' is a scary prospect. Although most of my closest friends know and my partner who I told well before we even started dating. Just being selective I guess.

[eddiegae]

I remain in the closet for fear of how my spouse will react. And my friends as well. Will they be accepting? Not likely, they are a very conservative group in this regard. Bible believing fundementalist. And I'm glad they are, but it means i must remain hidden. but for how long? sooner or later my wife will discover my clothes an then what?

[suzanne]

MsVal, how old are you? I am envious of anyone under thirty, who have come of age in a more enlightened era, and have enough youth left in them to really rock a dress.

As an over fifty, I grew up surrounded by poisonous attitudes towards any male that was less than a "man's man". Anyone appearing even slightly effeminate was considered fair game to be singled out, harassed, ridiculed, beaten, or even killed. My own father said more than once, "Look at that. Is it a boy or girl? That makes me sick. What IT needs is a bullet in ITs head". That stays with you forever and makes you believe every one feels similarly, if less extreme. In that same atmosphere, many girls also learn that femininity is unacceptable.

Under those conditions, the real question is, Why would any man ever admit to being a crossdresser? I am glad we have moved forward enough so that I have the freedom to express my feminInity, but it hasn't always been safe to do it.

[Teresa]

Hi MsVal'
I've jumped in late on this one, my wife knows I cd but we have a DADT relationship. Your third point about anxiety and stress screws me up and doesn't help me.
Many have commented on not telling because of bad reactions from family, friends or co-workers but don't forget they not all living perfect lives they may have worse problems than you, the fact that you don't know doesn't make it go away for them. We tend to think when we get a bad reaction from someone that they must know about you but they may be desperate to talk themselves.

[Robert]

I'm new to this forum, but the reason I finally joined, after lurking for a year, was because my wife has forced me out of the closet.

My wife is an alcoholic, and gets abusive and aggressive when she drinks. A week ago, while we were arguing about another issue, she called me a bunch of names that were related to the lingerie she had discovered in my dressing room. The cat is well and truly out of the bag. By one token, I am happy that my secret is now out in the open and I don't have to hide it from her anymore. However I'm also now concerned she has a weapon she can use against me whenever she wants, or is confronted with difficult situations. I have children from my first marriage, and am concerned that she will reveal all to them. They don't need their lives complicated in this way.

I hadn't told her about my crossdressing activities precisely because I was scared of how she would react. Her anger and abuse make me think I was right to keep this part of me private. I suspect that our marriage is doomed.

That's why I have come to this forum. I have no one else to talk to about this. So, thank you all for sharing your stories and experiences.

[pattyjones954]

I find it better not to bring it up I dress in private, but I like to keep my girl side separate from the guy life

[samantha rogers]

Hi Robert...welcome...I really feel for you. Your situation sounds awful, and it breaks my heart. Chin up, honey...and trust you will get through this and there well may be a better place on the other side. You are not alone.
I also feel a deep empathy for all that need to remain closeted. Until very recently I was myself both closeted and in deep denial over a very many years. My heart breaks a little more ever time I read so very many of the stories, tales and situations endured by so many here. It is a lonely place to be, and a world of stress to carry, all on top of whatever it takes for each of us to accept and love the feminine side of our souls ourselves.I know because it was my life for so long. I weep a little, quite regularly, when I remember all the pain that is out there in the dark. It is so tragically ironic that something that brings us all so much joy must also, in so many cases, be accompanied by so much fear and loneliness.
Though I have now had "the talk" we are still working through it. As I mentioned elsewhere, I now believe disclosure to your SO is the best and most perfect answer, though I also understand fully that this is a painfully personal decision, and one that can only be determined by the individual herself, and the unique situation they face. I will be the very last to offer judgement against any, or to offer anything but understanding and support.
While it is joyous to read of so many who have conquered these fears, and found acceptance with their loved ones or in one way or another reconciled their situation and moved forward in a happy and healthy way (and there is so much joy in my heart for all of you), I just cannot forget all of those who have not yet found a way out of the dark.
Essentially, places like this forum allow us the comfort of "holding hands in the dark", and though it may be small comfort to those who live with the most fear and pain and anguish, it is far better than none...and I for one am extremely grateful for all the comfort and support I can find.
My heart goes out to all of you.
Hugs

[Lexi Moralas]

For me it's pretty simple why to keep it a secret , I like me fem side to be totally separate from my regular life. I have no desire to go full time or transition, it's something that is just for me and no one else. Kind of like escaping into a whole different person. So mixing the 2 worlds on any level would some what spoil the experience for me. Now that my SO found out and decided she is not ok with it, I am doing me best to put cding aside. But even if she had no problem with it , I am not sure I would want her involved in my cding. Like I said its just for me

[samantha rogers]

Honey, good luck "putting it aside", but I am sure you know that cannot be for long. Another thing to consider is that the need and desire, no matter how certain we may be at any point, often grows rather than dissipates as we age. Sorry your SO has not reacted more favorably. I wish you the best.
Hugs

[LadyInRed]

simple enough, I don't keep secrets from my wife.
I stopped for many years and got back into it, but before I did i made sure she was aware and "ok" with it.
as for the rest of the world, there is no way i could pass en femme plus I work with some incredibly homophobic individuals and that would make my professional life difficult, they've done it before and is all within appropriate guidelines / the law, and it would add a lot of problems to the workday and potentially could end with me having to leave my current job. so not worth it

[Raychel]

For me, I kept this a secret from her for a very long time. over 10 years
several reasons in my mind,


First, I was scared out of my mind that she would throw me out of the house.
we have 3 boys and I certainly could not stand that.


Second, I was not sure that she would keep my secret from the world. Another
very scary thing that I would not be able to deal with.


Now time has passed, Our relationship has grown, I have come out to my wife and our kids.
as well as some of my family and friends. My wife has totally accepted me, and everyone else that
I have told, is totally cool with it. so all those reasons that I had were totally false, It all worked out
well for me at least.

[Karen kc]

My wife is fine with it. I keep it a secret because of my kids and grandkids. I dont want my 10 y o granddaughter to have to put up with any more peer pressure than what she encounters now everyday!

[Badtranny]

There are some people who should NEVER come out regardless of circumstance. These are people who have not come to grips with who they are, and coming out makes everything bad for everybody, including the rest of the 'community'.

There are some people who could come out in the most outwardly un-accepting situation imaginable and they will be fine and even open the minds of many.

I would say the majority of posters in this forum are not ready to come out at all and should absolutely keep their secret. Then there are plenty of those who are plenty ready and should probably keep the secret anyway. As with most things in life, there is way too much grey in the answer even if the question is unambiguous.

The particular activity is less of an issue than the particular person. I think too many of the 'coming out gone wrong' stories are simply due to the CD just not knowing how to act appropriately with their new freedom.

I guess if you really want to be open about who you are (whomever that may be) then you should come out and do that, but the bottom line is found right there beneath all the psychobabble, and on it is written; It all depends.

[MsVal]

I remain in the closet for fear of how my spouse will react. And my friends as well. [...] Bible believing fundementalist. [...] sooner or later my wife will discover my clothes an then what?

You're far from alone in your reasoning. It appears that those that have not revealed their crossdressing to their wife/SO/girlfriend made that decision based on fear of the unknown.

I think there may be the nucleus of another thread along the lines of "How do you reconcile your religious faith with your crossdressing?" - That won't be the title, but it's a start. I was, and still am a fundimentalist, and am struggling with that as well. The closest I have come is that fundamentalists believe we are all sinners, including those that would chastise us, and we all need redemption.

Do you have a plan in place if/when the discovery is made?

Best wishes
MsVal

Best wishes
MsVal


MsVal, how old are you? I am envious of anyone under thirty, who have come of age in a more enlightened era, and have enough youth left in them to really rock a dress.

As an over fifty, I grew up surrounded by poisonous attitudes towards any male that was less than a "man's man". [...] Under those conditions, the real question is, Why would any man ever admit to being a crossdresser?

Hi Suzanne, My age (64) is in my profile, and while I wish I could selectively turn back the calendar, I can not, so I choose to make the best of what I have.

As one that has seen some of the same things you have, I understand what you are saying. Our hero's, our idols, the people we wanted to emulate while growing up were cowboys, soldiers, detectives, rugged men, "REAL MEN".

Disclosure is a very big and very personal decision. As I said in the original post, it is not my intent to advise anyone, but to provoke a discussion whereby we may learn from each other.

Personally, I disclosed to my wife primarily because we love and respect each other too much to keep secrets from one another. This is not the first nor will it likely be the final disclosure she or I will ever make. Secondarily, since I was not going to keep a secret, I wanted to choose the time and location where the disclosure would be made.


Hi MsVal'
I've jumped in late on this one, my wife knows I cd but we have a DADT relationship. Your third point about anxiety and stress screws me up and doesn't help me.
Many have commented on not telling because of bad reactions from family, friends or co-workers but don't forget they not all living perfect lives they may have worse problems than you, the fact that you don't know doesn't make it go away for them. We tend to think when we get a bad reaction from someone that they must know about you but they may be desperate to talk themselves.

Hi Teresa. You're not late, and I'm thankful that you wrote. I believe you said in another post, but I've forgotten how your wife came to know about your crossdressing.

DADT seems to be pretty common. It permits both parties to avoid the subject but doesn't allow for any further understanding.

Someone (me, possibly) may follow up on whether the stress is bad or good thing. E.g. For those that dress for excitement, stress enhances the experience and makes it more pleasurable.

You make a very good closing point. Everybody has something they would rather not disclose, something they may actually want to talk about with someone they trust.

Best wishes
MsVal


I'm new to this forum, but the reason I finally joined, after lurking for a year, was because my wife has forced me out of the closet.

My wife is an alcoholic, and gets abusive and aggressive when she drinks. A week ago, while we were arguing about another issue, she called me a bunch of names that were related to the lingerie she had discovered in my dressing room. The cat is well and truly out of the bag. By one token, I am happy that my secret is now out in the open and I don't have to hide it from her anymore. However I'm also now concerned she has a weapon she can use against me whenever she wants, or is confronted with difficult situations. I have children from my first marriage, and am concerned that she will reveal all to them. They don't need their lives complicated in this way.
[...]
That's why I have come to this forum. I have no one else to talk to about this. So, thank you all for sharing your stories and experiences.

Welcome to the forum Robert. I seldom know what I'm talking about, but there are many wise people here that do. They freely give of their time and experience to help folks like you and me. But as a long time lurker, you already know that.

I am so very sorry to hear of your horrible situation. It brings me to tears. As a child of alcoholic parents I understand to a degree what you are going through. It's tough; you walk on eggshells, never knowing what will happen next. If you need a hug, this is one good place to get it. If you need someone to talk to, we are here.

I've read that when you are presented with a very difficult situation like what you describe, it is wise to own it, get in front of it, and control it. In this context, I believe that would be to make your own disclosure, at a time and place of your choosing, thereby taking away her weapon in a safe way. I've done that professionally a few times. It sounds hard, and it is, but the alternative is quite unpredictable, and seldom easier.

Children have a lot more resiliency than we give them credit for. They will probably find out sooner or later, how they find out is unknown at this time.

Best wishes
MsVal




[...] I like me fem side to be totally separate from my regular life. [..] Kind of like escaping into a whole different person. [...] my SO found out and decided she is not ok with it, I am doing me best to put cding aside.

Hi Lexi. Some people are very good at, and very comfortable with compartmentalization of their various 'selves'. They may have the work self, the spouse self, the parent self, the good-old-boy self... and none of them cross over. It sounds like you are among them, or you were until your SO found out. Now your damage control is to deny your crossdressing nature. Others have said they were unsuccessful. I hope it works for you.

Best wishes
MsVal




simple enough, I don't keep secrets from my wife. [...] i made sure she was aware and "ok" with it. as for the rest of the world, [...] not worth it

Hi LadyInRed. I like that name.
It's good to read of a disclosure that went well. Congratulations to you both.

It's pretty easy to keep it a secret from the workplace, not so easy in the family.

I've disclosed to my wife but I still need to disclose to my family, thereby relieving my wife of the burden of keeping it a secret. A secret, I may add that she cannot talk about to anyone. Also managing the potential embarrassment of accidental discovery.

Best wishes
MsVal


For me, I kept this a secret from her for a very long time. over 10 years
several reasons in my mind,

First, I was scared out of my mind that she would throw me out of the house.
we have 3 boys and I certainly could not stand that.

Second, I was not sure that she would keep my secret from the world. Another
very scary thing that I would not be able to deal with.

Now time has passed, Our relationship has grown, I have come out to my wife and our kids.
as well as some of my family and friends. My wife has totally accepted me, and everyone else that
I have told, is totally cool with it. so all those reasons that I had were totally false, It all worked out
well for me at least.

Thanks Raychel for the wonderful bad news / good news story. I actually gasped when I read the last paragraph.

You lived with the stress and anxiety for ten years and then made disclosures that sound like a non-events. How did that make you feel?

Best wishes
MsVal



My wife is fine with it. I keep it a secret because of my kids and grandkids. I dont want my 10 y o granddaughter to have to put up with any more peer pressure than what she encounters now everyday!

Karen, thank you for bringing up a very good point about the little ones, peer pressure, and bullying. The original context was spouse/SO/girlfriend, but you're right. There are little ones whose skills at handling things may not be adequate to protect themselves from the words and actions of their peers.

Best wishes
MsVal



For me it's just the area and the type of person who lives around here. Its still quite a sheltered straight male dominated area so to 'come out' is a scary prospect. Although most of my closest friends know and my partner who I told well before we even started dating. Just being selective I guess.

Hi Scarlet, I see that you are among those that chose to tell your partner early on, and your close friends. I do hope that worked out well for you. As for the rest of the world, well, you've got to make a living.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tina_gm]

The particular activity is less of an issue than the particular person. I think too many of the 'coming out gone wrong' stories are simply due to the CD just not knowing how to act appropriately with their new freedom.


I would definitely agree with this statement. I have read some posts and thought to myself, you just hit her with a huge change by the reveal, and before she can hardly begin to catch her breath, the changes start coming in, and then these same posters will talk about the difficulties of an unaccepting S/O.... "she freaked about the painted nails the shaved legs" etc etc. Those things may happen in time, or may not in her presence, but an S/O who chooses not to leave because of CDing alone, but then how it is presented is another matter altogether. The pace, or lack of communication when the changes start rolling in. It IS a big deal to them, any and all of it when there is change.

[Tina_gm]

I initially figured I would never actually dress, so I did not disclose to my current wife at the time when we were getting engaged and she point blank asked me if there is anything she needed to know before we got married. I chose not to tell her of my desires. But, over time, I knew that I would have to tell her. As for keeping it secret to everyone else, that is the product of building a life without actual crossdressing, (always had the desire) and now I have two teenage boys, a long term job, friends and family..... to reveal to all would constitute a 9.0 on the Richter scale with a resulting tsunami the likes that happened to Japan a little while back. I have to deal with the fact that I did not deal with myself for so many years and built a life the way I did. It has been hard enough for my wife to absorb this aspect of myself. It would be way too much to have friends and family to deal with, for her moreso than me. Many would likely attempt to persuade her to leave me. The awkwardness the would come her way and mine. my kids do not need the harrasment that would come, my mother is becoming elderly and not in good health, no reason to give her such a shock so late in life.

Fear, sure I suppose you can call it that. I also feel it is that I have many responsibilities to my wife and kids, and the security I have built in with the job I have held for many years. Some would accept and be ok with it all. maybe some I would not even expect. And some I might suspect that would, wouldn't. But there are many that I know who would not do well at all with it. And I can live life the way I am living it now. Perfect, no, better than it was before, yes.

[samantha rogers]

GM, have you thought about just telling her but no one else? I am in exactly the same position with teenagers, family, friends, job etc, but after years of holding back I finally did tell her recently. It was tough and is not over, but she is still my best friend in the world and I could not deceive her any longer. So far, though it is not settled yet, she is coming to understand and forgive. She still loves me and is growing to accept it. I don't know your situation, and I do not mean to preach or judge... I would never. Just asking with much empathy, honey. Sometimes, the love we fear losing is greater than we give it credit for...sometimes. Whatever, I understand and support your decision. Only you walk in your heels, baby.:)
Hugs

[Laurenlovecd]

I am just afraid that very few people I know could relate to my love for Crossdressing. The entire concept is so foreign to most people. I have lived in the same town my entire life and I am an owner of two small business's, one dealing with kids. The parents just would not understand. If my situation was different I would gladly let Laura out of the closet, but I can't take the chance. It is sure nice to have forums like this to share my passion with others.

[renee elizabeth]

Have read and heard about a lot of negatives that unfortunately happen. I.e. Job loss. Loss of friends and family. Divorces. Being targeted for harassment and violence by so called macho types. Also there are some like me who are very private about thier personal lives and feel that they don't have to let thier skeletons out of the closet. Many reasons to keep our female selves locked away. I do choose to keep a tight lid on my Joanne side.

[Michelle789]

Fear, and the possible real consequences. I will address a few issues.

1. S/O - this is probably the most terrifying, because even if your wife is open to having CDing friends, she married a man, and may be terrified by the thought of occasionally presenting as a woman, or even the remote possibility that you're TS and may transition.

2. Work - this is probably the second most terrifying, since in many states you can get fired for being openly CD or trans. Even states with job protection laws your employer can find other ways to make your life miserable at work e.g. harassment, giving you less challenging assignments, unpaid time off, etc...

3. Parents - We're very attached to our families, and our society places an extreme importance on our birth families, which we don't get to pick. Unlike an S/O or job, where you chose to get married or chose to accept work, you have no say in who your family is. If they disown you, then you don't have a family. They could also choose to harass you, guilt-trip you, tell you how "being a woman sucks", ostracize you, exclude you from family events, leave you out of the will.

4. Neighbors - if we venture out en femme, we will guaranteed be caught by our neighbors. One or two outings you might not be seen by any neighbors. But if you go out regularly, you WILL be seen by a neighbor, and your neighbor may recognize your face, and even if they don't recognize your face they might see that obviously CD/tall woman/dude in a dress walk to or from your door or your car. Yes your neighbors will recognize your car. We risk facing judgment from our neighbors. Sometimes it's a closed-minded bigot that hates CD and TS. Sometimes it's internalized fear that our neighbor might not understand us being cross-dressers, or even that they may be surprised "you a cross-dresser, you seem like the last person I know that would be a cross-dresser"

5. Friends - this is probably the smallest area of concern, since we can pick and choose our friends at will. Still, we invest so much into cultivating friendships that we fear losing friends, or having friends not understand us, make us the butt of jokes, or fear that they may be completely surprised that you're a cross-dresser.

With any of the above people in our lives, we fear them not understanding us, thinking we're perverts, or them telling us how ridiculous we look. Fear of being told that you make a fat and ugly woman, or that you look like a ridiculous guy in a dress, or that you're gay, or that you have no idea about how awful being a woman really is.

[Christen]

Negative general public reaction, I think. Crossdressing confuses the heck out of people, me included from time to time. My wife knows, that took me 25 years to get to broach the subject, and even then I wouldn't have except that my daughter stumbled across me completely dressed. My youngest daughter knows as well. But the issue is never discussed, you know DADT. I'm sure some of my good friends would handle it OK, some of my siblings would too. But so many people can't handle it, so I keep it secret..ish, well all of you know. Totally agree with not giving enough credit for love and understanding! My beautiful wife absolutely floored me when, the second time my crossdressing came up (shave legs in summer, not a good idea), she said 'Oh well, I'll just have to accept that my husband like wearing women's clothes". And yet I've still not revealed the extent to which my crossdressing goes. My eldest daughter has been very upset at me, but she loves me and I think as long as I don't shove it their face it's OK. But my God, I hate the deceit, not to mention the paranoia of getting caught out.
If I had my life again I'd tell my SO as soon as a relationship look like getting going. I salute all of you who have done that.

Christen x

[mariehart]

Well crossdressing is not like announcing to your wife that you're taking up golf or fishing or even something like military re-enacting which requires dressing up. It isn't socially acceptable. You will probably face public derision or worse. Friends may reject you or attempt to talk you out of it. Family may react angrily and even if they don't throw you out for good, they may be less than supportive. Even if people are supportive to your face. They may laugh at you behind your back and even work to undermine you. Everything you hold dear may be taken away from you. Your relationship, your children, your career.

So in the face of all that, why would anyone not choose to keep it a secret?

Sure the above is the worst case scenario. But I'm sure anyone who has come out has suffered one or other of the above. This world is not kind to those of us who are different to the norm.

For me, there was a time when perhaps I should have come out. I had little enough to lose. But I didn't and the reason is simple. I am simply not strong enough, not thick skinned enough. I'm not one of life's survivors. I envy those who have the strength to face up to it. But I'm not one of those people.

I even get embarrassed by some of my socially acceptable interests. I sometimes feel embarrassed telling people what my job is. So announcing to an unsurprised world or even my wife that I often wear women's clothes is a step too far.

Worse still. I'm TS. I can't even provide an adequate explanation as to why I'm that way.

There are no easy answers

[Dana_Drake]

The fundamental problem is that you cannot predict how any given person will react to one's disclosure. That is the problem. You cannot unring a bell. You can say that chances are that someone will respond positively when told, but all that is is a probability; nothing more.

Everyone's situation is different. There may be family, work or social reasons why one may chose not to disclose. Further, one's perceptions of those reasons can vary, person to person. One's perception of the consequences can also vary. It's a complicated situation with a ton of variations. What's right for you may almost be guaranteed to be not so right for someone else...

My thoughts exactly. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Many of us would stand to lose everything.

[MsVal]

The original question asked about disclosure in the context of a wife/SO/girlfriend, but there have been some wonderful responses that address the broader issue of disclosure to others that are inside and outside of the family.


[...] to reveal to all would constitute a 9.0 on the Richter scale with a resulting tsunami the likes that happened to Japan a little while back.Kind of like being on the my fault line. (Yeah, it's a bad pun.)
[...] It has been hard enough for my wife to absorb this aspect of myself. It would be way too much to have friends and family to deal with, for her moreso than me. [...] I also feel it is that I have many responsibilities to my wife and kids, and the security I have built in with the job I have held for many years.
Thank you for those very good points Gendermutt. Your wife is aware and that troubles her a great deal. To disclose to others could unfairly increase her burden. You also mention that your responsibility to provide financial and other security for your family would be compromised through a general disclosure. For those that consider such things a necessary part of being a husband and father, that is a very big issue indeed.

Best wishes
MsVal


[...] I am an owner of two small business's, one dealing with kids. The parents just would not understand. [...] It is sure nice to have forums like this to share my passion with others.
Speaking as one that has children, I agree completely that parents would not understand. That would ruin the business overnight. The only way out of that one would be to sell the business before a disclosure, and that is not a trivial undertaking.

I also agree that it is wonderful to have this forum where people can discuss, within limits, their crossdressing experiences. Notice that there is no mention of payment, either required or requested, there are no advertisements, and I receive no spam email to the unique email address I use for this forum. There are no flame wars, and no ... er ... unsavory posts. I once again applaud the volunteers that keep it that way.

Best wishes
MsVal


[...] there are some like me who are very private about thier personal lives and feel that they don't have to let thier skeletons out of the closet. [...] I do choose to keep a tight lid on my Joanne side.
Given that you are a very private person I completely agree that the lid should be on tightly. Does that include keeping the lid on so tightly that your wife/SO/girlfriend is shut out? They have a way of opening closets and those Tupperware containers at the most embarrassing times.

Best wishes
MsVal


[...] I have read some posts and thought to myself, you just hit her with a huge change by the reveal, and before she can hardly begin to catch her breath, the changes start coming in, and then these same posters will talk about the difficulties of an unaccepting S/O. [...] The pace, or lack of communication when the changes start rolling in. It IS a big deal to them, any and all of it when there is change.
Gendermutt, you're spot on. Your post gave me pause while I pondered how my own post-reveal life has been lived.

Best wishes
MsVal




Fear, and the possible real consequences. I will address a few issues.

1. S/O - this is probably the most terrifying, [...]
2. Work - this is probably the second most terrifying, since in many states you can get fired for being openly CD or trans. [...]
3. Parents - We're very attached to our families, [...]
4. Neighbors - [...] We risk facing judgment from our neighbors. Sometimes it's a closed-minded bigot that hates CD and TS.
5. Friends - this is probably the smallest area of concern, [...]

With any of the above people in our lives, we fear them not understanding us, thinking we're perverts, or them telling us how ridiculous we look. Fear of being told that you make a fat and ugly woman, or that you look like a ridiculous guy in a dress, or that you're gay, or that you have no idea about how awful being a woman really is.
<In Michelle's well thought out and well written post I had much difficulty finding ways to boil it down to its essence. Too much good stuff.>
I can appreciate the terror of disclosing to an S/O. They are the people we hold most dearly, the ones we lean on, the ones whose love and respect keep us going. They are also the ones most likely to make those fateful discoveries that critically, and sometimes fatally injure the love and respect we had been accustomed to receiving. I believe the question should be: Is the risk of disclosure greater than the risk of discovery?

As for the Work, Neighbors, and Friends - those are valid arguments. Those people don't have a 'need to know'.

Parents and other family - I don't know about that. Reports from others on this forum seem to show that it depends on the family.

Best wishes
MsVal


Negative general public reaction, I think. Crossdressing confuses the heck out of people, me included [...]
Totally agree with not giving enough credit for love and understanding! My beautiful wife absolutely floored me when [...] she said 'Oh well, I'll just have to accept that my husband like wearing women's clothes". [...]
But my God, I hate the deceit, not to mention the paranoia of getting caught out.
If I had my life again I'd tell my SO as soon as a relationship look like getting going. I salute all of you who have done that.

Christen x
We are social creatures. Right or wrong, the opinions of others matter to us. We take it personally when the things that we do confuse them.
You have a wonderful wife Christen, and I can tell that you know and appreciate that.
"I hate the deceit" - while the opinions of others matter, shouldn't our opinion of our self matter more?
No need to salute, soldier. I'm just an enlisted man doing what had to be done.

Best wishes
MsVal



Well crossdressing is not like announcing to your wife that you're taking up golf or fishing or even something like military re-enacting which requires dressing up. It isn't socially acceptable. [...] I didn't and the reason is simple. I am simply not strong enough, not thick skinned enough. I'm not one of life's survivors. I envy those who have the strength to face up to it. But I'm not one of those people.

Worse still. I'm TS. I can't even provide an adequate explanation as to why I'm that way.

There are no easy answers
Thank you Mariehart for your very candid, very personal, self assessment. It must have been quite difficult to write. You may be speaking for many others that did not express it as well. I hadn't considered people with feelings similar to yours. You opened my eyes. I apologize for my inconsideration.

For you, and others of similar mind, there really is only one way to handle that knowledge. You likely carry a very great burden of emotional stress. I wish you well.

Best wishes
MsVal

[suchacutie]

This is a very complicated issue and I'd like to look at it a little differently.

My wife and I discovered and nurtured Tina together. Right from moment one we were fascinated by this hidden side of me (hidden from both of us!) and we couldn't wait to ask all the questions possible as we tried to go back into my then 55 years of life and 34 years together to try to tease out the parts that really were Tina. We also were incredibly curious about how Tina might play out in our lives as we went forward. Basically, it was and is a massive adventure shared between us.

One agreement is that it stays between us. We just don't trust other people's ability to be tolerant. I agree with Karren on this totally. I've seen some very open-minded friends go insane at the idea of a MTF crossdresser or a female impersonator. OMG it was just amazing in a completely terrible way.

But what I want to bring up here is a theoretical: Having experienced a wonderful wife helping with Tina's journey, if my circumstances were to change, how would I go about bringing this up to a new "friend"? Just consider the potential mess. What it all comes down to is that we better be ready to be "out" to the world at the time that you bring it up to a new person. That person is then in control of that privacy that you've shared with them.

So, I think the bottom line is the lack of control you have over your life as soon as you allow your transgenderism to become public.

Then again, I have a lot of actions and desires that I don't think I want hanging out on my clothesline! It's that lack of trust of other people and the lack of control that really says it all for me.

[Aeslyn]

I think it has been touched on in here but my own personal reason for secrecy is primarily my daughter. I know she faces enough forms of bullying as it is and I know the community she lives in. If anyone knew her dad was a "part-time second mom" she would face far worse. I saw it happen in the same community when the dad of a female friend of mine came out of the closet and my daughter is now in school with the children of the people who made my friend's life hell.

As for coming out to an SO, I don't have one and haven't for a very long time. I think being single is part of what has brought out more of my fem side since I have more opportunity. And as it stands at the moment I would prefer to be with a man, one who wants me to be his woman. However, I think at this point in life if I were to become deeply involved with a female it would have to be someone who knew and accepted my fem side since I don't think I want to go back in to full repression ever again.

As for other possible reasons for secrecy I think for a lot of people it is that they don't want to shake their lives up too much. This is another main reason why I would not come up in my current life. In two years when my daughter (who doesn't live with me anyway) is 18 and goes off to university I still won't come out unless I move and completely change my life. We become too comfortable with the way things are and the shake up that would be caused by coming out is something we don't look forward too even if it may allow us to pursue our desires. It is not just coming out that this cause for hesitation effects but many different things in our lives - changing jobs, moving even within the same community, ending relationships which we may not be happy with, changing banks or credit card companies, etc... This being something which holds us back from doing many other things in life it is reasonable to assume it is a major factor in hesitating to come out about things which will definitely change your life and social relations.

[MsVal]

This is a very complicated issue and I'd like to look at it a little differently.

My wife and I discovered and nurtured Tina together. Right from moment one we were fascinated by this hidden side of me (hidden from both of us!) and we couldn't wait to ask all the questions possible as we tried to go back into my then 55 years of life and 34 years together to try to tease out the parts that really were Tina. We also were incredibly curious about how Tina might play out in our lives as we went forward. Basically, it was and is a massive adventure shared between us.

One agreement is that it stays between us. We just don't trust other people's ability to be tolerant. I agree with Karren on this totally. I've seen some very open-minded friends go insane at the idea of a MTF crossdresser or a female impersonator. OMG it was just amazing in a completely terrible way.
You have a marvelous wife Suchacutie, but you already know that, don't you?

It appears that you were unaware of Tina for quite a few years but when she was discovered, you told your wonderful wife and together you embraced her. That's an unusual though very happy story to read. <big grin> I like to read those stories and wish there were more.

While you two were fascinated with Tina, you chose to keep her existence between you. That's pretty normal, isn't it? A lot of folks keep their personal husband-wife relations private. As long as Tina stays at home I see no difference between that and any other personal business.


But what I want to bring up here is a theoretical: [...] how would I go about bringing this up to a new "friend"? [...] That person is then in control of that privacy that you've shared with them. [...] lack of control you have over your life as soon as you allow your transgenderism to become public. [...] It's that lack of trust of other people and the lack of control that really says it all for me.
I've got to agree with you, as do a lot of others. Once a disclosure is made, even to a spouse, the risk of it becoming common knowledge increases. When the disclosure is made to someone with nothing to loose by repeating it, the risk becomes orders of magnitude higher. Remember, though, the context of the thread is a spouse/SO/girlfriend. In that context, you believe the spouse should know, and in your case, it turned out very very well.

Best wishes
MsVal



I think it has been touched on in here but my own personal reason for secrecy is primarily my daughter. I know she faces enough forms of bullying as it is and I know the community she lives in. If anyone knew her dad was a "part-time second mom" she would face far worse. I saw it happen in the same community when the dad of a female friend of mine came out of the closet and my daughter is now in school with the children of the people who made my friend's life hell.
As fathers, we have a duty, a responsibility to protect our children from harm. You see a clear and present danger to your daughter and therefore are very careful to keep your crossdressing a secret. In my opinion, any crossdressing parent that would fail to do so, and subject his child to bullying would be extremely self centered and uncaring.

As for coming out to an SO, I don't have one [...] if I were to become deeply involved with a female it would have to be someone who knew and accepted my fem side since I don't think I want to go back in to full repression ever again.
If you were to find someone with whom you wished to share your life, I suppose that you would be in the "early disclosure" camp.

As for other possible reasons for secrecy I think for a lot of people it is that they don't want to shake their lives up too much. [...] We become too comfortable with the way things are and the shake up that would be caused by coming out is something we don't look forward too even if it may allow us to pursue our desires.[...]
That's one very common and very odd part of human nature, isn't it? We would rather put up with <fill in the blank> than face the uncertainty of change. I make a conscious effort to embrace change, but for all the effort, the changes are small and slow.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Julie Martin]

I keep it a secret because it is a personal thing, an occasional thing (for me) and I have no wish for others to know and no need for others to accept it. I also have no desire to risk a wonderful marriage. Any stress or anxiety is also occasional, and is mine alone..I would never wish it on my spouse, she didn't sign on for this. If I was one that needed a daily dose of Julie, it might be more difficult, and I understand the turmoil for those that do, but for me, this is an easy one.

[JeanVigo1905]

Fear. But of what, I'm not sure. I'll sometimes wear a little light make-up out, and sheer stockings under my jeans. I want to be bold, but I haven't yet found the strength inside of me to go further.

[Tina_gm]

GM, have you thought about just telling her but no one else? I am in exactly the same position with teenagers, family, friends, job etc, but after years of holding back I finally did tell her recently. It was tough and is not over, but she is still my best friend in the world and I could not deceive her any longer. So far, though it is not settled yet, she is coming to understand and forgive. She still loves me and is growing to accept it. I don't know your situation, and I do not mean to preach or judge... I would never. Just asking with much empathy, honey. Sometimes, the love we fear losing is greater than we give it credit for...sometimes. Whatever, I understand and support your decision. Only you walk in your heels, baby.:)
HugsI did tell her a little over a year ago. And other than two therapists, one a gender therapist and another for other issues, but also with the CD stuff thrown in, plus she did confide to a distant friend. Other than that, no, I have not told anyone else, and it is likely to stay that way for quite some time. I live in a small rural-ish community and it would not go over well with others. I have made my bed in life, by not accepting myself till almost 50. I have responsibilities to others, including my wife whom I did not initially tell. My wife accepts that I am a mix of masculine and feminine, but chooses to only "see" the masculine side, as far as clothing goes. She does see some of my feminine side, as when we are alone I just let myself be myself. Sometimes she even chides me about it, is ok with it, sometimes she just tries to ignore it.

[Tina_gm]

Thank you for those very good points Gendermutt. Your wife is aware and that troubles her a great deal. To disclose to others could unfairly increase her burden. You also mention that your responsibility to provide financial and other security for your family would be compromised through a general disclosure. For those that consider such things a necessary part of being a husband and father, that is a very big issue indeed.

Best wishes
MsVal You are welcome for this and the other posts I made that you commented on. When it comes to my work, because of where I work, a disclosure that I am a CDer in of itself would not cause termination. But, it would likely make things very difficult and awkward for me. A disclosure to friends or family would likely be very devastating to her and my kids. Not all would have difficulties but I know some would. Some would alienate , others would likely do all they could to get her to leave me. My kids would be put into distress from bullying and picking. Life is what it is, and I have responsibilities. My life is better than it used to be. I can live with that. Great topic BTW.

[FemPossible]

Fear of being rejected by my family and fear of bigots.

[MsVal]

I keep it a secret because it is a personal thing, an occasional thing [...] no desire to risk a wonderful marriage. Any stress or anxiety is also occasional, and is mine alone..I would never wish it on my spouse, she didn't sign on for this. If I was one that needed a daily dose of Julie, it might be more difficult, and I understand the turmoil for those that do, but for me, this is an easy one.

With regard to disclosure, you're in a pretty good position, Julie. It seems that your escapes into femininity are few, they are of little personal significance, and you are able to manage the desires very well. Therefore, you see no reason to risk disclosure to your wife. That seems to be a very popular way of handling one's crossdressing.

Yes, there appear to be many that have a much greater need to dress. Some of them have a need to even go beyond the security of home. In their circumstance, due to the extent and frequency of dressing, the risk of discovery is great enough that the risk of disclosure may actually be lower.

While your frequency and significance may be low, that certainly will not be apparent to someone that makes an accidental discovery. I am sure you take precautions to limit that risk, and I do hope that works out well for you.

Best wishes
MsVal



Fear. But of what, I'm not sure. I'll sometimes wear a little light make-up out, and sheer stockings under my jeans. I want to be bold, but I haven't yet found the strength inside of me to go further.

This is a bit off-topic, Jean, but that's okay, you are among friends.
The fear is ... well ... quite normal, and is what saves us all from acting on the first thing that comes into our head. I would be in a lot of trouble if it were not for my own fear of the unknown. Boldness will grow as comfort with the current status grows. If your desire is to overcome your fear of the unknown and be more bold, those will come with time.

Best wishes
MsVal



[...] where I work, a disclosure that I am a CDer in of itself would not cause termination. But, it would likely make things very difficult and awkward for me. A disclosure to friends or family would likely be very devastating to her and my kids. [...] Some would alienate , others would likely do all they could to get her to leave me. My kids would be put into distress from bullying and picking. Life is what it is, and I have responsibilities. My life is better than it used to be. I can live with that. Great topic BTW.

I don't recall the circumstance behind it, Gendermutt, but it appears that your wife is aware. (fault my sieve-like memory).

The effects of a general disclosure on the rest of the family cannot be overstated. They are real and can be very hurtful, even physically harmful. The unlikely loss of employment, or the more likely loss of advancement opportunities harm them as well. These MUST be carefully considered by every husband, father, SO, or boyfriend that is not completely given to narcissism.

(Thank you very much for the compliment. It means a lot to me.)

Best wishes
MsVal



Fear of being rejected by my family and fear of bigots.

The approval of, or lacking that, the acceptance of others is a very natural and very powerful motivator. It shapes nearly everything we do, from our kindergarten paintings to our choice of careers; from the house we live in to the clothing we wear.

With the fear of rejection being your primary motivation, you may be carrying a great burden of anxiety. If that is the case, I am quite sorry for you. I do hope that I am mistaken.

Best wishes
MsVal

[samantha rogers]

Gendermutt...sorry, I had misunderstood your earlier comments and did not realize my mistake until after posting. Your situation is very similar to mine and I empathize totally. Sorry for the error.

[DanielleLee]

I believe you answered your own question in the OP... "Only you know your specific situation and it would be most foolish for someone else, particularly me to claim a higher ground"

What goes said or unsaid about this topic between two people, a CDr and their SO, is between them. It's not a topic of debate for the rest of us to judge or say you're wrong for doing "a" or "b".

Anyone here can stand their moral high ground about lies by omission, but until any of us has lived the life of another... we don't know the challenges and repercussions that would follow by their coming out to an SO.

For transparency sake... I told my wife before marriage that I really enjoyed being feminine at times. I've never disclosed the full story... age started and all that. I underdress often, dress rarely. (2012 was the last time actually) My wife and I have a DADT policy. She does not accept and does not like it.

[FemPossible]

The approval of, or lacking that, the acceptance of others is a very natural and very powerful motivator. It shapes nearly everything we do, from our kindergarten paintings to our choice of careers; from the house we live in to the clothing we wear.

With the fear of rejection being your primary motivation, you may be carrying a great burden of anxiety. If that is the case, I am quite sorry for you. I do hope that I am mistaken.

Best wishes
MsVal

Yeah, I'm a mess. I even have non-crossdressing related problems that I keep a secret. But I'm working on it.

[Glenda58]

I keep mine a secret because years ago it was taboo there was no internet no way to find other like me. So I hid it. Now the people I care about do like it or don't know so I keep it hid from them. If I was younger I know I would be out in the open with it. My life would be better.

[MsVal]

I believe you answered your own question in the OP... "Only you know your specific situation and it would be most foolish for someone else, particularly me to claim a higher ground"

What goes said or unsaid about this topic between two people, a CDr and their SO, is between them. It's not a topic of debate for the rest of us to judge or say you're wrong for doing "a" or "b". [...] For transparency sake... I told my wife before marriage that I really enjoyed being feminine at times. [...] My wife and I have a DADT policy. She does not accept and does not like it.

Thanks for the wake up DanielleLee. I intended this thread to be a place to talk about the topic, not to preach or judge. If I or anyone else has judged another, it was my failing, I accept responsibility, and I apologize to any who were offended.

Thank you for your candid response to the question. Like you and several others my wife does not accept or like it; we also have a DADT. I feel that DADT provides a framework where both parties can avoid the issue, but they also avoid dealing with it constructively. How about you?

Best wishes
MsVal



I keep mine a secret because years ago it was taboo there was no internet no way to find other like me. So I hid it. Now the people I care about do like it or don't know so I keep it hid from them. If I was younger I know I would be out in the open with it. My life would be better.

(Glenda, I assume you meant "do NOT like it".)

It's that old 20/20 hindsight thing. How I wish I could selectively turn the calendar back and have a few do-overs. I'd start by taking my high school education seriously and go to college when I was young.

As for early disclosure, it may have presented a new portfolio of challenges that are greater than those you have now. Some have lost families, careers, money, and friends through disclosure. Those are pretty tough nuts to crack.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Bev06 GG]

I guess Cross dressing is something very personal and the fear of someone reacting in a negative way puts people off sharing it with nearest and dearest. Shame really but then not all RGs are OK with it, some react very badly.

[Tina_gm]

Yes, they do Bev. Sometimes even worse than guys do. I know how hard it must be for GG's to get the news however they get it that their man is a CD. If for anything., just that they didn't know, and have real trust issues now, and were never prepared for it. While I think that many women, maybe a majority if given the time to adjust, learn and grow with it will be ok with it so long as it does not become their entire focus of their S/O and their S/O does still have male qualities and enjoys spending time as his birth gender, I have seen a healthy number of women who are vehemently opposed to any femininity inside or out when it comes to men, and they have no problems letting it be known.

[Danicd1]

I kept my secret from the age of 12 to 21, I was worried that telling someone in my family could have a horrible outcome. However, as I grew older and learnt more about how accepting my mum is of people (she has 4 or 5 lesbian friends) that I decided to out my crossdressing to her. She was amazing with it! When I'm home alone and dressed, she will always ring me to tell me she's leaving to come home etc. We have a great relationship and it felt like a massive weight was lifted off my shoulders.
I'm now 22 and still living at home.

[Joyce S.]

I did not crossdress when married to my exwife - but if I did, I would not have told her, could not have told her. I knew her quite well - and I knew how narrow-minded she was.



Wow... you must have been married to my ex-wife... narrow-minded describes her to the tee. If I had to pick one word to describe my first marriage it would have to be "Adversarial". She was never my friend and I never had any trust in her for my inner thoughts. I knew with a certainty she would use it against me.

Whether we like it or not CD'ing is outside of the social norm. Unless you grew up (literally) in a closet you cannot help but have these social norms ingrained in you. Heck, TV commercials instill these norms in you without you even knowing it. I admire all CD's (or anyone for that matter) who buck that social norm. It cannot be easy. I know I continually wonder where the pink fog that I feel sometimes comes from. I don't deny it. It does confuse me sometimes though.

I am married again and I have told my wife about my CD'ing. I also told her about my confusion. She told me to not deny myself. I dress when she isn't home and I don't know what my comfort level would be if she were home. It is me who is trying to defeat those social norms. I'm pretty sure my SO wouldn't care if I dressed when she was around. I don't think it attracts or interests her (and nor would I expect it to just because I like it). It doesn't help me that I work in a very masculine profession. I'm a Active Duty Marine... go figure. (Talk about ingrained social norms!) I'm also very different at work. I'm very hard and demanding to the Marines that work for me.