Wanting to be masculine and feminine at the same time.

[Milou]

I feel so conflicted, as it seems that there are two sides of me. One side is the masculine part that really loathes my feminine side. I like to be work-out, be strong and look good as a man. There is also a feminine part of me that wants to dress up and be girly. I haven't accepted my feminine part yet, but I was wondering if I'm the only one

Arrghh, I think I'm going crazy :'). Anyway, would love to hear your experiences ;).

[Kate Simmons]

Getting to truly know yourself and accepting all of your feelings takes time. It doesn't happen overnight.You need to be patient with yourself first and foremost. :)

[Katey888]

Milou - I think we all pass through that phase.

Western society tries to imprint us with the binary and mutually exclusive images of masculinity (tough, hard-edged, strong...) and femininity (caring, soft, sensual...) - and coming to terms with the concept of being trans- or pangendered is difficult. Nothing in life prepares us for this.

But if you can begin to grasp the concept that some of us are made in a subtly different way to most people (who have no issues with the binary male/female world) and that we somehow embrace all aspects of masculine and feminine in different measures and ways, then some things might get easier. I struggled with similar thoughts, but in the past few months I've become more happy that this pangendered perspective is truly a gift that 'normal' folk very rarely understand and most will never appreciate.

So - time to stop loathing your other side - that's non-productive energy! Start channelling that into harmonising your complete self - there aren't really two sides to you - that's just you trying to fit yourself into the model that society gives us. There's only one you - one Milou - embracing much more than mere 'normal' folk. :)

Once you have accepted that - and I hope and believe you can - the really difficult part is trying to explain it to other people! :eek:

Find harmony within yourself - be happy... you're not alone... :hugs:

Katey x

[FemPossible]

I feel the same way. I want to gain muscle and weight but at the same time I want to dress up in cute clothes and present myself in a girly manner. I'm going to try and find a balance between the two.

[Joanne f]

Hello Milou,
I would agree with Kate in that it can take time to sort things out if you are confused about your feelings , I am sure that there are many different reasons why people like to do different things and I expect that you are trying to figure out why you have to opposites relating to gender oriented things , it might help you if you try to look at why you want to work out and look good as a man , whether it is because you are trying to fight the feminine side of you or whether it is just because you enjoy it and the same go's for the dressing up girly part of you , is it for some unknow reason of just the fact that you enjoy it , if you just enjoy both then stop fighting it and enjoy it if it is something deeper then as Kate said that may take a little time but the only way you will sort it out is to stop fighting it and then it will eventually come up with the answer by it's self in most case's .

[Donnagirl]

Yep I know how you feel... My boy side is ultra masculine, former special forces , I ride big motorcycles, rebuild classic cars (currently an S-Type Jaguar), do all the repairs at home - plumbing and electrical included - drink beer with the boys on sports nights, handy with a chain saw, have a shed full of tools and a weight bench in the corner. Work is 'alpha male', security clearances, drug tests, weapons and badges. But...

I really want to look, feel and be accepted as a girl... I want long hair and breasts. I want to wear my high heels, short skirts and lingerie. I want my ears pierced, nails painted and jewellery on...

The stress of trying to be both is huge. I live full time male.... Hard and unfeeling male, aggressive and dominant male. Bald headed and goatee-d male. (Often uncaring but how much is real and how much a scam?). My times to dress are few and far between but cherished and adored. I sit here now, painted toes, g string and women jeans. Shirt is drab, socks and shoes to match. Nothing noticeable and only I know. It is these little things that keep me sane.

I tend to swing from one extreme to the other, but do crave the stability. I don't want (will not) let anything affect my relationship, I love my wife and children. I have mad many sacrifices over the years and will sacrifice happiness and 'dressing' if it was essential...

As I said in my very first post, I still don't know who the real me is, I love the dichotomy of my existence, thrive on the thrill, fear the consequences, enjoy the manly man and the girly girl and wonder what the future will bring...

That is me...

[Jackie F]

Hello Milou
My job and family require me to be masculine and I am happy and content to do so. When I am enfemm or alone I try to me feminine. This seems to work for me
The other night when grocery shopping I was following my wife pushing the basket and caught myself practicing my walk. I was kinda having a good time with it.
I have learned to take my time and just wait for a natural responses from my self.

[Milou]

Thank you for all the hopeful words and it gives me some comfort I'm not the only one. I'm sorry that most of my posts are related to acceptance, but it's still a deep struggle for me. Somehow, I have to deal with it and I am. With some other related and unrelated issues.

much hope, very struggle, wow.

it might help you if you try to look at why you want to work out and look good as a man , whether it is because you are trying to fight the feminine side of you or whether it is just because you enjoy it and the same go's for the dressing up girly part of you , is it for some unknow reason of just the fact that you enjoy it , if you just enjoy both then stop fighting it and enjoy it .


I enjoy it a lot, but I think I'm also trying to fight/ignore my feminine side. The best way is to find a way to integrate my feminine side in my life, but I still live with my parents.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Depends on how people ...see... me and wether they wont to accept who i am for some they wont and it has nothing at all to do with what i wear, clothes have total no bearing on who i am strip me down theyll see a female body,my issue and has allways been is in my facial features, , this is the stumbling block that a few people have or seem to have,

though im a member of quite a few groups and our membership of well over 1000 people plus my many friends i have loveingly been accepted for who i am and not on how i look, or dont

You say two sides to you. im a little different i was born different a mismatch of both male female , and some of us are, i wont say im feminine though others will and they see far beyound my appreance they get to know who i am in my many different aspects of what makes me the way i am.they see my makeup as a person, you see theres no pretence here .

Lack of understanding is the root of non acceptance and for some its a dont wont to accept.and dont wont to know,

First of cause is in accepting your self for who you are dont try and be other than who you are, thats a mind game you dont need to take on and youll never get any where with it,

My masculine side is very much a part of my make up it allso is what has helped me to be a very strong woman, with out that i would not be here writing this trust me no one here would know me, yes suicide,

Its when you are able to combine all of who you are is when you accept your self and can live a life that has meaning a strength for you to be who you are, mine comes from i can not seperate my masculine or femaleness and thats where my strength lie's, you know the meaning of a house divided against its self , it will fail. and that is true of us as people,

Here's a thought for you , my beauty comes from with in, even though im female im not complete in all aspects yet as a person im complete in who i am. and we can be accepted as being different,

...noeleena...

[Christen]

Hi Milou,
We all want to be good at what we think the world expects us to be. And despite seeing some girls here who are so convincing, most of us will never go close. It's more about internals than ex, acknowledging who we are rather than how we look. I'm lucky, I'm not that big, but I still hate my shoulders and strong masculine features when I dress, but I still almost sink into myself when I get the Christen on. Self acceptance does take time, for me 50 odd years (some years odder than others). The one thing I've grabbed on to that really helps me is Yin/Yang, it's in everything, no one is absolutely male or female, nothing is black or white, everything has two sides, there's always a positive and a negative. We have two sides as well. Accept that. You can be the best person you can without having to conform to stereotypes. Find a way to satisfy you needs, do it without harming the ones you love. Oh, and try Yoga, it's a beautiful example of strength, balance, flexibility, masculine, feminine. Good luck!

Christen x

[Robert]

Perhaps you are buying into a false dichotomy. I tend to think that I have no 'sides', I'm just a dude who likes to wear women's underwear. To buy into the masculinity/femininity binary, is to accept perceptions of social norms.

I can still lift weights, and change a tire, I just do it while dressed in satin and lace. And, I can never know what it feels like to be a woman. Which of course requires an acceptance of the idea that all women feel the same, which is demonstrably not true.

I think aiming to be a well rounded person is a good goal to have. And, the beauty of being rounded means that there are no sides, only the whole.

In a more enlightened world, there would be no such thing as a 'crossdresser'.

[Marcelle]

Hi Milou,

What you are talking about is balance between your male and female sides. As others have said, we have all been there to some degree and some still struggle with that balance. I would ask if you could explain a bit more about what you loathe about your female side, is the concept of presenting female or is more related to confusion as to why you want to present female? If you are not sure why you want to present female (i.e., what makes you tick), you will need to figure this out before you can accept yourself and move forward with balance. Don't get me wrong, balance does not mean equal parts. I live 80% of my time in the world as male and there are aspects of my life that girl me does not partake in (I never mix girl and boy me). However there are aspects of my life which are shared between girl and boy me. That is my balance. You just need to find yours sweetie.

Hugs

Isha

[Milou]

Thank you for all the replies, it certainly gave me some food for thought.


Hi Milou,

I would ask if you could explain a bit more about what you loathe about your female side, is the concept of presenting female or is more related to confusion as to why you want to present female?

Hugs

Isha

I'm quite the perfectionist for certain goals. When I don't reach them (be the perfect son), I tend to loath myself for not reaching these goals. Even when I do reach my goals, I'm rarely proud of myself and I always find reasons to criticize myself and saying I'm not good enough. Furthermore, I'm afraid of what other people might think of me and that they might not accept my feminine side. Overall, I overanalyze everything and I'm a very pessimistic person.

I don't know anymore, I think I just loathe myself.

[Beverley Sims]

Milou,
In the decision process of life you will make the correct decision when it is right for you.
A girl may come along that changes your whole lifestyle.

[Saikotsu]

Milou, not everyone is meant to fit into one gender or the other. There are many on this forum who were born male and feel that they are truly female. Likewise, there are many born female who wish to be male. Of course we also have men and women who are happy to be what they are born as. Then there are people like me, who feel that none of the above truly match that description. I am both Adam and Adyson. Man and woman. At times my masculine side is more prevalent. Other times, my feminine comes out. However, no matter which part of me I present to the world, i'm always 100% me.

Coming to terms with my gender identity isn't easy. I'm still working on it. I'm still not entirely sure what or who I am. But one thing I do know, I feel pride in my decision to embrace both sides of me. I also know that if I was forced to live as only one, I'd be miserable. My advice to you is to get to know that feminine side. I fought and struggled with Adyson a lot. I still do. But in fighting her, I was fighting myself, and only making things worse. Try to spend a night en femme and get to know your other self.

[Adriana Moretti]

Milou - I think we all pass through that phase.



So - time to stop loathing your other side - that's non-productive energy! Start channelling that into harmonising your complete self - there aren't really two sides to you - that's just you trying to fit yourself into the model that society gives us. There's only one you - one Milou - embracing much more than mere 'normal' folk. :)


Find harmony within yourself - be happy... you're not alone... :hugs:

Katey x

Katey for President...or in her case run for Parliment !!!

[MatildaJ.]

Even when I do reach my goals, I'm rarely proud of myself and I always find reasons to criticize myself and saying I'm not good enough.

That sounds like me, a few years ago. Get a copy of David Burns's book Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy, and work through the exercises. (You can find it used on Amazon for about $4.) It helped me a lot -- it provides a way to talk back to those critical voices in your head, the ones that hold you to an impossible standard of perfection.

[Jaymees22]

I think we all have been conflicted at one time or the other. It's important to stop loathing yourself and start loving yourself, and that means both sides. Once I realized that I became a much happier person. Jaymee

[Anna H]

One possibly useful thing to keep in mind is that it's going to change with time.

You're quite young still and it's probably not possible to figure it out and put
yourself into any particular mindset or settle on any particular way you should "be".

Where you live, how much $$ you make, how people around you are, and a million
other things will pop up that can cause things to change drastically.

Loathing oneself is pointless and a waste of time. You do have plenty of time, but
wasting what you do have isn't going to make things any better....you are as you're
intended to be, as we all are.

Today is today. Next week you may find out something new and interesting that
causes some subtle little change in you that you may not even notice.

My own personal end result...(at this point)...has been just a middle road/blending of
both of my "sides". I don't want to be a big tough bad-ass, but I don't want to
be a prancing sissy either. I don't worry about appearing slightly 'effeminate' around
people. They may think what they want to, but they can never be sure enough to
make a solid judgement.

For me, just ending up being myself and not worrying about how I may seem to be to
others is what just came naturally....in time. It took a long time for that to happen.

You don't need to worry about time...yet. Just be how you want to be and keep in
mind that things will change and you can adapt and change yourself when the time
comes. There's no need to try to be any certain way for now.

People are going to take you as you are, or not. Those that don't do save you
time, by not wasting what you have. Those who do are worth something.

Just my $0.02...
:happy:

[Teresa]

Hi Milou,
I know what it's like to push your male side to hide the fem side, if your fem side has always been there it won't go away. You say you are a student, will you be able to move from home when you graduate? You may have to be patient and see how you feel then, you don't mention a partner so is there any possible support close to you to help you along ? You have age on your side but you have to work on a balance.

[samantha rogers]

This has probably been posted before, but I am somewhat new so please forgive me...Dr Anne Vitale has written some really insightful stuff about this very topic, which I found very helpful. If you google her I am sure you can find an essay from her entitled The Gender Variant Phenomena. It was a lot of help to me. I have never been big on labels, and I know lots of people only care about the acceptance and embracing side of things, but for some of us, understanding the why helps get to the acceptance and the peace.
Hugs

[Isa]

I love so many of the answers on this subject, was on my mind this morning.

[suchacutie]

Milou, I've been lucky to have accepted my feminine side from the first moment, but that didn't negate my masculine side at all.

It rapidly became clear that the best description of me is bigendered. My wife describes it as, "two apps working on the same database".

In fact, for me it's just easier to understand that there are two big chuncks of my brain, each operating mostly in one gender or the other. I don't mix my genders beyond what is necessary for maintaining both sides of me. It's actually fun to realize which traits of me belong to which of my gendered selves. It helps to make my male self more male, in fact, but without the stupidity of the testosterone-laden male. Tina is always there in my head for consultation, even when I'm in full-blown male mode.

Have fun with it. Being a part of both genders is high maintenance, but it can be really glorious.

[Annaliese2010]

No you're not going crazy Milou. I totally know what you mean. I have two selves too. We don't "coexist" actually. Either one or the other predominates at a time, my males self usually. But unlike yours, my male self isn't as powerful emotionally so when the setting is such that he isn't needed I take over quite easily without the tug-of-war you seem to be experiencing. Instead, in my case he relents, recedes, doesn't resist or bother me. In fact he sort of secretly admires and is even turned on by me - if that makes sense. Geeze now who sounds crazy? LOL

[Shy_Confusion]

Milou,
I'm glad you posted this. It's something I've really been wrestling with myself. So, no you are not alone.
Thanks to all the ladies for the good advice.

[Alice B]

Welcome to the Ying & Yang of the cross dressing world for many of us. Nothing to be ashamed of and there is nothing wrong with enjoying both worlds. Just have fun with it.

[Milou]

Thanks everyone for the helpful and hopeful posts. I feel a lot better now, actually. Also, it may not look like it, but I actually enjoy life. :)


Hi Milou,
I know what it's like to push your male side to hide the fem side, if your fem side has always been there it won't go away. You say you are a student, will you be able to move from home when you graduate? You may have to be patient and see how you feel then, you don't mention a partner so is there any possible support close to you to help you along ? You have age on your side but you have to work on a balance.

Yeah, I'm living on my own in March. I also have a partner and she knows about my urge to crossdress (something I haven't done in 8 years). She doesn't like to hear about it, though.


This has probably been posted before, but I am somewhat new so please forgive me...Dr Anne Vitale has written some really insightful stuff about this very topic, which I found very helpful. If you google her I am sure you can find an essay from her entitled The Gender Variant Phenomena. It was a lot of help to me. I have never been big on labels, and I know lots of people only care about the acceptance and embracing side of things, but for some of us, understanding the why helps get to the acceptance and the peace.
Hugs

Thank you.

[devida]

I found what was very useful for me was practicing fluidity, not just in gender, but also in mood. I find I have the worst time when I freeze a mood in place. If I can just recognize that I feel, for example, self loathing, I can usually just let it go and another mood will come along. So if you hate yourself for being a man when you're feeling femme you can just recognize that, relax and kind of pat yourself on the head as if your mind is a moody but much cherished pet. Then you can move along. Find a mirror and give yourself a hug. Unfortunately it is too easy criticize ourselves for not meeting up with some ideal of masculinity, femininity, happiness, confidence, competence or whatever. Our inner critics are really loud. But our inner critic loves to keep circling around the same topic: our unworthiness, our failure to live up to expectations. Moment to moment acceptance of who we are and compassion for being that allows you to be fluid in gender and mood. Strangely enough, when you allow yourself to be fluid in mind and mood you often find peace within yourself. Hang in there. It really does get better, and for you, with your whole life ahead of you it will get very much better.

[trisha kobichenko]

Hi Milou,
Your are not alone for sure! Thanks for starting this thread! I read the whole thing...something I don't usually do, and it was full of so many wonderful suggestions... I have come to think of gender identity as a continuum, rather than an either or choice. I am somewhere in the middle, loving things male as well as female, but usually not at the same time ;) It took me a long time to get over guilt for loving my femme side though.

trisha