About acceptance

[Dani0948]

After reading a few recent posts about acceptance, I wondered if there might be some comparisons?
Think about the last time you saw a young man with his pants hanging down below his backside. How did it make you feel. Disgusted,, shocked, thrilled, bored, happy?
I often wonder "Who thinks that look is attractive?"
I wonder if we are perceived the same way by the general public?
I'm all for live and let live, but I still think some things just look wierd.

[docrobbysherry]

I don't wear my pants that way because I think it looks ridiculous! If I did wear them that way? I would be embarrassed and ashamed of how I looked.

Which is EXACTLY how I feel about how I look when I go out in public dressed!

I've gotten used to the ridicule and unacceptance of the muggles. But, I can't seem to get past my own!

[Persephone]

Dani,

Are you perceived that way? Or do you just feel that you are? We are sometimes our own worst judge of our own acceptance.

Yes, double-takes, distain, they can happen. But they also offer an opportunity to figure out why they are happening and to make changes so that they happen less and less often.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Marcelle]

Hi Dani,

Funny you should mention that as I saw a young fellow at the bus stop the other day and he was wearing a pair of skinny jeans with the crotch riding about knee level and baggy boxers showing to the world. I thought it was a bit comical to be honest but to each their own. I am sure I get quite a few similar thoughts when out dressed.

Hugs

Isha

[Barbie Anne]

Still trying to figure out how they do that? Safety pins?

As to the subject of the post, you bring a good point. Our tastes colour our perception of the world, and to each his own.

When I was a kid rainbow suspenders and bellbottomed hiphugger jeans were worn by straight guys. I still wear them but I'm never getting an afro perm in my blonde hair again :)

My point is Our parents griped about what we wore and their's them so forth back to antiquity.

[AllieSF]

Yes, I think that sometimes we are perceived that way. To me it is like, "I don't like that look, but I respect their right to present that way." That is how I approach that. Since I have been dressing my level of tolerance and acceptance has significantly improved. I am also more protective of the rights of individuals to present and act as they like, even if I do not personally like it, and I defend those rights when necessary, even on this site where you would think that we would be much more tolerant and accepting. Go figure!

[Allisa]

First PULL UP YOUR PANTS !!.Okay got that off my mind.

Lisa

[Jilmac]

I wouldn't wear my pants that low because I don't want to flash my panties to the world.

[Helen Grandeis]

It is always better to be classy than trashy. As a CD it is usually our goal to blend or pass at least at a distance. You don't want people to linger their attention.

[busker]

Ten years before its time, a fashion is indecent; ten years after, it is hideous; but a century after, it is romantic.
JAMES LAVER, attributed, Business Wit & Wisdom
well,who knows about the "romantic" part. Indecent and hideous work fine for me as a description.

[Kristina_nolagirl]

I find it amazing that crossdressers can form a negative opinion of the way anyone else dresses. It was once said "Exactly what you put out is exactly what you can expect to get in return." Show love and acceptance for everyone and only then can you legitimately expect it back.

[Tina_gm]

Basically true Kristina, who are we to judge when we are "different" than most. On a personal level, I hate the low pants look, but then again, I can despise certain looks GG;s have, CD's have.... all personal preference for them and for me. If they are happy with how they look then ultimately that is all that matters.

[Angie G]

Attractive not in the least. As for what others think I don't know.:hugs:
Angie

[Tracii G]

I'm over the droopy jeans thing I learned not to judge a person by the clothes.
I assume the fad will go away soon enough.

[FemPossible]

I've had several conversations about people sagging pants their pants in various Facebook groups. My stance is that it's their right to wear their clothes however they want to. It's a free country. I always compare them to people who have their actual naked butt showing. No one seems to bat an eyelash at those people but don't you dare show your boxer shorts. What sense does that make?

[Beverley Sims]

If something does not meet your dress standard ignore it and them.
There are more things to worry about, like if your own wig is on straight and you look like a lady. :)

[sometimes_miss]

After reading a few recent posts about acceptance, I wondered if there might be some comparisons?
Think about the last time you saw a young man with his pants hanging down below his backside.
Young males emulate those that they see as successful in achieving the goals they want. If an older male walks around with his pants down, and has girlfriends, has respect of his peers, then that's all it takes. The younger male will emulate that male in hopes of those goals. Then it perpetuates.

[Kate Simmons]

This only works if we are worried about what others may think. Obviously, many aren't. :)

[MsVal]

That is not a double standard. There is a very real difference between those that wish to make things better and those that want to make things worse.

Crossdressers invest considerable time, effort, and money, striving to meet some standard of beauty that will be appropriate for a venue. They want to enhance, not diminish the collective experience through their female presentation. Success, for a CD is being accepted as a part of the normal community.

The baggy pants crowd does none of those. They wish to stand out from the norm, they actively challenge authority, they seek to make every place a part of the depressed inner city. Acceptance is not what they seek.

Concerned parents are moving their families here, a little north of Detroit, in an effort to escape the social and economic problems of their old neighborhoods. They want their children to live in an environment that encourages self improvement rather than self abasement. The problem comes when a few of the kids don't get the message and want to bring their customs and culture with them.

Best wishes
MsVal

[NicoleScott]

One guy to another:
"You shouldn't wear your pants so low that your butt crack shows. You don't see me wearing my skirt like that."

[5150 Girl]

I agree with MsVal... I think there is a big difference between showing you underthings, and bending the gender norms... It's called UNDERwear for a reason.

[Caden Lane]

The inherent difference between the two is that while we try to pass, gain acceptance, to look classy, and we want to fit in. The "style" you refer to is an effort to thumb ones nose at society, show off and not fit in. Odd how one is embraced by youth for the most part and we are still shunned.

[UNDERDRESSER]

I find it amazing that crossdressers can form a negative opinion of the way anyone else dresses. It was once said "Exactly what you put out is exactly what you can expect to get in return." Show love and acceptance for everyone and only then can you legitimately expect it back.Nicely said.

I try to practice this. I have got to the stage where I can live and let live, but internally I still think "That's not right!"

I just want to wear a skirt and stockings or other legwear. I am working on my own look that lets me a be a man, but presenting in a way that reflects what I want to be. For myself, there are looks that work, but I can't wear in public because it's SO DIFFERENT. If one can step back and view it unemotionally, you can say, "Wow, that really shows off his nice butt and legs!" Without the "OMG! Why the hell is he wearing that?!"

[Jaymees22]

If we want to be accepted, than dressing appropriately for the situation or place we are is the best bet. If we want to be noticed then dress to be noticed.

There are a lot of different theories on the saggy pants look and that it probably started in prisons, check out this http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp . I guess some people like it, as some people like cross dressing. Jaymee

[Kristina_nolagirl]

Jeeeeez....I'm amazed. I wear my pants low as a guy because it's a fashion thing. I don't want to look like a nerd. But it's ok for me because I'm a decent looking in shape white guy. All of you who are against low pants are clearly defining your disgust for low pants as in low pants worn by young black males in the inner cities of America. Please tell me when the last time you complained about an extra low top on a woman, or the new shorts that girls as young as 12-13 are wearing these days that clearly expose their butt cheeks. You don't!!!!!! And they are exposing actual skin....not the cloth of underwear. To be coming from this group who supposedly wants people to accept them for who they are is mind blowing to me!!!!

And don't even try to hide behind the "we do it in a classy elegant way" bs. Everyone of us knows that for every classy, elegant Trans person, there is 2 or 3 more gross ass hairy men in their wives panties posting pictures online which results in us all being classified as "perverts". That's unfair and hurtful but comes as a result of grouping all of us as "the same" which is exactly what you guys are doing for low pants wearers.

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to justify judging of other people by any means than you deserve every bit of negativity thrown your way. I'm not a religious person but I do subscribe to the 1 thing that every main religion in the world has in common which is to "treat others as you would like to be treated"

[Stephanie47]

Kristina, you're way off base with what others may think concerning current fashion or is lack of fashion. If a guy wants to wear his pants so his crotch is at his knees and show off his underwear so be it. It has nothing to do with whether or not the person is black or white. I see all races exhibiting this fashion. Do I think it is cool? No! If I operated a business that look would not be allowed by "my" dress code. When I'm out and about I have never seen that look worn by people at work. It may be worn off work as a social fashion statement. How do I form my opinion of the person wearing such garb? As a retiree and having put my time in the work force I do enjoy my retirement time out and about in society during normal school and working hours. I see guys wearing this attire when I would expect someone to be either in school or working. Of course, it may be the kid's day off work, but, I usually judge the person has being more engaged with loafing around and living off someone else.

As to young women parading their girls around for everyone to see. One of the target's I frequent has such a young woman working as a cashier. She constantly has to adjust her top to keep from falling out. It is unprofessional. I do not understand why she thinks she is attractive. I have no idea why her supervisors do not admonish her. She looks "cheap." I see many more women consciously avoiding that look during the day at least. I don't know what they wear socially at a party or a bar. If she is trying to attract an interested man, then OK. If a guy wants her to wear that so he can act like "See what I have. Jealous?" then OK.

As to young girls wearing shorts that show off flesh in the manner you described all I have to say "Who is your mother?"

As to cross dressers I see a wide range of "looks" in the photo section. Some are very tasteful and age appropriate. Others are somewhat over the top. Of course, there are many many people who are going to see a man wearing a woman's clothing as downright "sick." Others are going to be more accepting, but, make the same judgements I have made above. Even though I am an in home cross dresser I dress to reflect a style that I feel is age appropriate. I think my style would blend if I were to be out in public.

My family is mixed race which includes African Americans and native Americans and Mexicans and African-Mexicans. It is interesting these members of my family consider the cited "baggy" pants as unsightful, funny and would not let their kids wear them. Or let their daughters show off their asses or breasts.

[UNDERDRESSER]

First, this is my opinion, I am not talking for others around here
Jeeeeez....I'm amazed. I wear my pants low as a guy because it's a fashion thing. I don't want to look like a nerd. I have always reacted badly to fashion for fashion's sake, consequently I have spent a fair bit of my life looking like a nerd.
But it's OK for me because I'm a decent looking in shape white guy. In your opinion. I see white guys around here dressing like that, and while not as bad as some of the "street thug" look, it still looks silly to me. I find that the look is also about displaying the fact that one has bought a particular kind of expensive "designer" underwear. People being brainwashed by marketing is another thing I don't deal with well. I have a strong streak of wanting clothes to be as functional as possible. I actually think in a lot of circumstances that a skirt can be a very practical male garment.
All of you who are against low pants are clearly defining your disgust for low pants as in low pants worn by young black males in the inner cities of America. Please tell me when the last time you complained about an extra low top on a woman, or the new shorts that girls as young as 12-13 are wearing these days that clearly expose their butt cheeks. You don't!!!!!! Actually yes, I do "complain", at least internally. If the girl is adult, and she does it with that illusive "style" then great. Too often though, they are copying a "Fashion" which they have executed poorly, or simply doesn't suit her body type. Younger girls? There is a very fine line here, I expect young teens to start experimenting with their sexuality, but I don't like to encourage them to give up on their childhood too soon, and I prefer it if all females understand and accept that they should not, think of themselves simply as something men want. Being desired is fine, I like that myself, but to be considered as merely some "thing" that men want is not healthy, and is behind a lot of what is wrong with many current fashions, and indeed, a lot of the world today.
And they are exposing actual skin....not the cloth of underwear. I don't have an issue with skin exposure per se, I would actually like to join a naturist group in fact, I wear pretty brief swimwear to the pool and for tanning, but acres of flesh on display is not appropriate everywhere, though for the most part, I don't think it should be illegal, even full nudity, in public. Inappropriate sexual display is another thing. I would like to separate nakedness and sexual displays they are not the same thing.
To be coming from this group who supposedly wants people to accept them for who they are is mind blowing to me!!!!

And don't even try to hide behind the "we do it in a classy elegant way" bs. Everyone of us knows that for every classy, elegant Trans person, there is 2 or 3 more gross ass hairy men in their wives panties posting pictures online which results in us all being classified as "perverts". That's unfair and hurtful but comes as a result of grouping all of us as "the same" which is exactly what you guys are doing for low pants wearers.

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to justify judging of other people by any means than you deserve every bit of negativity thrown your way. I'm not a religious person but I do subscribe to the 1 thing that every main religion in the world has in common which is to "treat others as you would like to be treated"I don't get why you are so abrasive? I've just gone back and re-read the comments so far, and for the most part they are in line with your attitude, or at least say they would like to be that way, but are having their own internal issues. One can't help how one was brought up, as long as you're trying to improve yourself, and grow up emotionally, it's all that can be asked.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

What is it they say about glasshouses and stones??

[donnalee]

Although I dislike the look, it's 30+ year old one and pretty passe', at least around here. It does bother me that they are emulating felons, though (belts and shoelaces are not allowed in jails). Some years ago, when I had a retail business, it was not unusual to see people who with 6" rainbow mohawks and a lot of junk jewelry (made out of real junk!) hanging from various piercings. When you actually talked to them, they were soft spoken, polite and respectful. The main reason teenagers dress that way, as all of us did when their age, is to declare their independence from (and as a bonus, tick off) their parents.
I do think it is a clear case of the pot calling the kettle.

[Princess Grandpa]

I don't know how often Julie and I have had conversations that started with "I of all people have no room to talk about how someone dresses...

Hug
Rita

[FemPossible]

Jeeeeez....I'm amazed. I wear my pants low as a guy because it's a fashion thing. I don't want to look like a nerd. But it's ok for me because I'm a decent looking in shape white guy. All of you who are against low pants are clearly defining your disgust for low pants as in low pants worn by young black males in the inner cities of America.

I agree that when the subject comes up, they are the ones who are targeted. No one here can honestly tell me that when they think of pants sagging, a white guy comes to mind. However, no one in this thread had mentioned race or alluded to it.


Please tell me when the last time you complained about an extra low top on a woman, or the new shorts that girls as young as 12-13 are wearing these days that clearly expose their butt cheeks. You don't!!!!!! And they are exposing actual skin....not the cloth of underwear. To be coming from this group who supposedly wants people to accept them for who they are is mind blowing to me!!!!

This statement makes me wonder why the OP's question is so disproportionate. Firstly, no one sags to look attractive. I'm not even sure where they got that idea. Secondly, we're talking about cis males who are following a male oriented trend compared to males who prefer to dress as females. There's not really any comparison.


It has nothing to do with whether or not the person is black or white. I see all races exhibiting this fashion. Do I think it is cool? No! If I operated a business that look would not be allowed by "my" dress code. When I'm out and about I have never seen that look worn by people at work.

Excuse me, I may be having a slow moment but why are you mentioning work? Even people who sag do not go to work like that. I'm not seeing you're point.



It may be worn off work as a social fashion statement. How do I form my opinion of the person wearing such garb? As a retiree and having put my time in the work force I do enjoy my retirement time out and about in society during normal school and working hours. I see guys wearing this attire when I would expect someone to be either in school or working. Of course, it may be the kid's day off work, but, I usually judge the person has being more engaged with loafing around and living off someone else.

Or they could work at night or just have a part-time job or be unemployed looking for work. Or in the case of an underage person they could be skipping and need the truancy officer called on them so they can drive them back to school.


As to young girls wearing shorts that show off flesh in the manner you described all I have to say "Who is your mother?"

The same can be said of young saggers. But instead people just talk badly about them or say that there should be a law against it. Can you imagine it being illegal to not wear your clothes the way you want to wear them or to be forced to wear clothes that society says you should wear?


My family is mixed race which includes African Americans and native Americans and Mexicans and African-Mexicans. It is interesting these members of my family consider the cited "baggy" pants as unsightful, funny and would not let their kids wear them. Or let their daughters show off their asses or breasts.

What do you mean by "interesting"? Because I come from a similar mix and it's always been the norm to me. We just sit there and wonder how others can be ok with it. Does your family exhibit some kind of behavior that would've made you think otherwise?

[ReineD]

check out this http://www.snopes.com/risque/homosex/sagging.asp . I guess some people like it, as some people like cross dressing.

The article linked by Jaymees22 is actually quite interesting. The motive for wearing the saggy pants are the same as those for crossdressing. Just substitute the values to see that the motives/actions are fundamentally similar.



[-]Those[/-] (Men) who choose to wear their [-]pants[/-] (skirts and heels) this way cite comfort as their motive and so find justification for this imitation of [-]rap stars and felons[/-] (women), two groups perceived as [-]toughly self-sufficient[/-] (feminine) and therefore worthy of emulation; those who do not follow this fashion see only the [-]crotches of jeans[/-] (skirts and dresses) hanging at or above the knee, hobbling their wearers in a goofy manner. One can walk in [-]sagging pants[/-] (skirts and heels). But one can't run in them.


I do see your point, Dani. All this to say that those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[Allisa]

While Jaymees posted references were correct there is also another aspect of saggin',the g is dropped so when the word is turned around it describes the type of person you were in prison. It may seem racist but only blacks wore their pants that way while doing time. This from the horses mouth, not me though ,you meet a lot of people over time. That is why I say pull up your pants don't propagate that racism, And the length that you wear them down dictates the gay aspect. Although this really has no bearing on the original thread I just felt it should be cleared up.

Bye-Bye Lisa