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View Full Version : Slightly closer to figuring out what I am.



Jenny85
02-24-2014, 09:38 AM
I apologize again for the wall of text and I realize that none of you are here to be my therapist.


So, amusingly, one year ago today I took the plunge and registered on this site to try to figure out what I was. I read the responses, replied a little, and promptly left. I have frequented the site on occasion, but mostly stayed to the CD section as I didn't feel I belonged here.

In case anyone is interested, this is the forum post from a year ago.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?190677-What-am-I&highlight=jenny85

I went through and reread my posts and realized I may have simplified a few of my views. More on that later.

Even a year later I am still only beginning to scratch the surface, I suspect, of who I am. To do a super short summary from the previous post, I was trying to figure out if I was TS or a guy who could not deal with being bisexual.

I believe now that I may be a bisexual TS. Though to be fair this belief is one that I have come to very recently and as such should be scrutinized.

In the posts I talked about concern that this interest mainly, I suspected, presented itself in the context of sexual fantasy. I said when I first learned about sex, by finding my father's porn stash, I related to the woman on screen. I forgot to mention this happened when I was 10 years old and at that time had very little idea how to view these thoughts. I was attracted to both the people on screen. That didn't seem wrong to me at the time, but as I grew up with my father in Texas I learned to never express interest in anything other than women.

I internalized some very bad things. Only now, after posting last year and considering things in several new lights, do I come to the semi-obvious conclusion that I am bisexual. This was hard for me to decide. I was looking at men through the same lens as I would look at women. For me, most women are at least somewhat attractive, or at the very least there is something to find attractive about almost any woman. This does not hold true to men. Most men to me are not attractive at all. This was hard for me to understand since, in the context of my sexual fantasies with me as a woman, almost any man would do. I realized this comes from porn. On screen I can believe that the man is anyone or anything I want. It is an image, or a video, that I can apply a background to. I can ignore things I don't like and imagine things I do. Especially if the pic or vid excludes most of the man and instead focuses on the lower half. When I removed any sort of assumption of myself as female, I found I am far pickier and selective in what I find attractive in a man. BUT, I do find some men attractive and would have sex with the right man.

One problem solved... probably the easy one.

To properly address the question of whether or not I'm TS I had to remove the sexual fantasy and desires from it and view myself in a nonsexual context. I believe it's hard for me to remove gender from sexuality because I grew up in an area that made absolutely no distinction for men. If you were a man, you had sex with women and that was IT. Though to be fair to my upbringing, if you were female you could do whatever you wanted. Having mostly removed the sexual aspect, the question remained, how do you decide if you are TS?

In rereading my post from a year ago to see how my feelings had changed, I realized I over simplified one thing that stuck out to me like a clear sign that I was not. I put forth that I did not have any issues with being a man and that I enjoyed the games of being a man and trying to be the alpha male in a group. That is not quite true. What I should have said is, I don't have a problem with people treating me like a man, because I look and act like one. The games of being a man, in my mind, are intellectual. I enjoyed being able to convince people that I was a manly man and an alpha male, though people who knew me knew this was not the case in most regards. I feel like I am succeeding in some great made up game whenever I convince people that I really am a man. I suppose I enjoyed the knowledge that if I had to, I could use what I looked like and how people treated me to be exactly what they expected. It's also worth noting that my competition for manliest man in the bunch usually is not very extreme. I would rarely ever compete when it was obvious that I would not win. Most activities that would be considered manly are of no interest to me and I despise the fact that most people think I must be into cars or sports. What I consider to be the man game and trying to be alpha male usually has more to do with confidence and knowledge and manipulation of social expectations than any actual physical displays or chest bumping. Also to be fair, this is mostly an in the past thing, as in, most of my fond memories of playing the game are from college and what little time I spent in the very manly occupation of the oil field.

In rereading the paragraph above I realize that may or may not actually change the meaning.

Basically, I still don't know if I'm trans but I suspect that most people who do not fall anywhere inside the classification at all do not spend nearly as much time thinking about gender identities as I have, and that tends to lend credence in my mind that I'm somewhere in the spectrum. For a period of about two weeks I had decided conclusively that I was indeed destined to be a non op MtF TS. I was happy, content, felt like I had made the greatest breakthrough and regardless of whether or not I transitioned I had my answer. Then I realized that that was only how I felt at that moment and that in all honesty I would want to transition later in life and decided that I must be more certain and have since lost all certainty. I'm back to now, I just have no idea.

I want to talk to my wife about this. She is open to talking about it. She and I have talked about it in the past. She has no issue with my wearing female clothes or presenting as female. She has done my makeup, we both had fun. But she has said in the past that transition would be well beyond her comfort zone and would likely result in separation. I'm concerned that even talking to her about the possibility of transition, even only to have her input, would result in a bad outcome. I would never pursue it if she was not 90% on board and I would never want her to think that I would be free to pursue my desires were she not around for fear that she might try to unburden me. It may be of use to know that she and I are both 29 years old.

In summary, I am closer to understanding myself. I at least have a better understanding of my sexuality if not of my gender identity. And again, I'm sorry to put this all here in what must be a wall of text, but I think I needed to talk to someone. Also I'm going to go ahead and apologize to anyone who responded a year ago if it appears that I am still making the same mistakes. Many of you gave me good advice and opinions that I probably did not internalize and thus I may be saying the exact same things as last time but with an air of newness to it that exists only in my mind.

And yes, I realize a therapist would be the best option, but to do that I would have to discuss this with my wife and expose myself to all the negative things that may follow. I just realized the entire reason for this post is to ask this question; how exactly do I start a conversation with my wife about this without her thinking I have already decided that I need to do this when I havn't?

Annaliese
02-24-2014, 09:52 AM
Jenny we are all, a work in progress, it is hard to fight our past what we had to present our self as to survive. Welcome back.

LeaP
02-24-2014, 10:39 AM
You simply have to start talking. If your wife is willing to attend sessions with you, even occasionally, it may offset concerns about having already made decisions. The therapist may or may not allow or want that - you just need to ask.

StephanieC
02-24-2014, 10:56 PM
Yes. Talking and therapy are two of the biggest things,

melissakozak
02-25-2014, 10:46 AM
Jenny,

As helpful as this board is, and I find it tremendously so, a therapist can help you really sort out these issues. Specifically, a transgender therapist will help you the most. I have been seeing one for 1.5 years, and it has been enormously helpful for me to figure out where I am, who I am, what I need and where I am headed. Your orientation and gender identity are two separate concerns. You are both pretty young, too. For all of us who are in committed relationships of any type, couples counseling can be tremendously helpful as well. Relying on friends and family to deal with transgender issues is like asking a baker to fix your leaky toilet! It simply doesn't work. The rest of the world doesn't quite understand the complexity of our existence at all. A very, very precious few actually do. At any rate, objective, unbiased and professional guidance as you navigate through these issues can be enormously helpful but it is also very expensive. Your post reveals your struggles with all of this, and all of that is perfectly understandable at this point. Peace, Melissa.

Kaitlyn Michele
02-25-2014, 11:12 AM
Just like you look back one year and its obvious how many things you've learned since then, so it will be next year looking back to today.

You don't have a choice in this. Sooner or later, you will have to talk about it... let that sink in... and consider what it will be like later.

I made that mistake...I did it later... i'm not saying it will go well , or whether your outcome will be satisfactory or terrible...i'm just saying you need to think about the simple fact that this will not sit with you quietly..especially if you are transsexual..

to me your biggest choice is whether you talk to a therapist first, or go directly to your wife..

what you say and how you say it is a matter of your own relationship and communication style, and truth is better (and stranger) than fiction

Jenny85
02-25-2014, 04:12 PM
It seems to me that posting here allowed me to collect my thoughts in such a way as to be able to present them to my wife without too much fear.

I talked with my wife last night. It went well. She is far less put out by it this year. She has, since the talk, been commenting on things that could be fun or could be amusing or interesting. Basically the talk was just, if the answer is yes how bad could it be for us? We didn't discuss whether or not I am.

Basically she is at the point where so long as it is something in the future and has no set date or plan attached, she is fine with it. Once she starts thinking about it as though it could be actually coming she has problems.

The issue now is going to be, how do we talk about whether or not I am without putting her in a position of thinking how it directly affects her?

One thing at a time though. Now that she is more open to the possibility that transition could at some point be a possibility, I think I'm just going to let her stew on that for a while before bringing it up again.

That's hard to do in practice though because once she showed any interest I had to be careful not to get too pushy or specific. As I've said, I don't know that this is for me, but suddenly having the ability to at least consider that it would not be the most terrible thing in my life has opened a flood of thoughts and ideas that I now have to identify as something that is actually a desire versus things that just come to mind when you let yourself daydream.

The key now is to take it slow and carefully catalog each thought and emotion to decide if it is fantasy or reality. And perhaps even harder to analyze each emotion and feeling I have as male to see if I am really having issues with my gender or if I am more comfortable than I think I am.

Thanks for the responses. At this point in reference to a therapist, that will be something I do once I think I know the answer as years of therapy is simply too far out of my price range.

Angela Campbell
02-25-2014, 05:36 PM
it doesn't take years

unless you keep doing the same things over and over.

Kathryn Martin
02-25-2014, 05:53 PM
There are two things I would say:

1. If you concluded that you are a no-surgery MtF transsexual, what do you mean. Transsexuals do change their sex and not their gender (because their gender experience is consistently that of the gender which is opposite to their physical sex). It is in a sense a contradiction in terms. What you are though is transgender in the sense that you want to remain a man from a reproductive configuration point of view but your need is to transition from one gender to the opposite gender to fully live your life.

2. How do you start such a conversation? You should share your wife that you have had these feelings, for a long time, and that they will not go away and then share your experiences with her. Since you do not want a sex change operation this is an important fact to share.

LeaP
02-25-2014, 05:54 PM
The issue now is going to be, how do we talk about whether or not I am without putting her in a position of thinking how it directly affects her?

[Loud Buzzer Sound]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this. Believe me! She is not going to miss the point that this is going to directly affect her!

Give up the idea of trying to steer the conversation and control responses. Be honest and let the chips fall where they will. I can tell you the hardest thing I had to learn in doing this was to not give into the temptation to give assurances.

I can tell you that many, many, many of us go down the path of cataloging every emotion and thought in the manner you are proposing. I did, and wound up with quite a catalog. A completely useless one. First, what I found further down the path invalidated a lot of my self-understanding anyway. Second, the analysis didn't answer the question. Gender and identity come from a much deeper part of your heart and mind than that. Still, I can't tell you not to do it. For some of us, it seems to be a road we have to drive before we find we have traveled in very confusing circles. Amazing things happen when you finally stop and listen.

Jenny85
02-25-2014, 07:18 PM
I may have used the wrong term to express what I meant. Non Op person who was born male but presents outwardly as female except for the fact of preferably working male parts, sexually anyway.

The conversation I had with my wife basically followed the format of the original post in this thread and I did mention that I was not interested at this point in SRS and that I believed it was beyond what I would be interested assuming I can keep sexually functional male genitalia.

In regards to the buzzer sound, I meant only temper my enthusiasm for pursuing the conversations that might be painful in the short term so as to not overwhelm her with too much information. I wouldn't want to lay so much out that she would have to start making assumptions or simplifications about my interests. Also as I am still trying to figure it all out myself, I feel as though I want to at least screen my thoughts and make sure it's something I feel worth mentioning before just blurting out all the things that pop to mind when I allow the thought process to go unchecked.

In regards to therapists, I have no experience with therapists and seeing as I have been working on this in one form or another for a long time, I have a hard time believing I would be able to get a sufficient answer to warrant either getting HRT or dismissing it in only a few months. Though I might have spoken too hastily because it is possible that my health insurance might cover some of the cost of therapy.

I didn't mean to offend anyone or negate anyone's experience with transition. I am basically just trying to lay out my thought process as I understand it in the hopes that someone might have a better way of looking at something or might be able to warn me off of anything that is toxic that I might not realize.

My wife encouraged me to continue talking but in the same sentence mentioned that if I talk about it too much she would start freaking out because it would feel more like something in the immediate future than something in the "future."

That being said though I had set in my mind that I would like to try to figure this out and/or come up with a plan to use professional assistance to figure it out sometime this year. I'm concerned that might be too much in the immediate future for her.

Also also wik, I can't seem to talk in anything less than a wall of text.

Angela Campbell
02-25-2014, 07:25 PM
You do know that there is a chance HRT will make you impotent?

Jenny85
02-25-2014, 07:57 PM
I do. From what I have read it is either a crap shoot or you have to modify your hormone regiment to allow a certain level of testosterone to be present. And in either case there is no guarantee, hence the comment of only then would I be interested in SRS. As in if it's of no use to me then I might try something that would be. Also it's worth noting that I don't have any particular dysphoria I'm aware of in regards to my penis. It makes me happy and makes other people happy therefore it seems to fit.

I'm concerned that my desire to partially transition stands in contrast to most what I believe is most people's desires. It is yet another of the things I am trying to understand in my quest to figure out if HRT is right for me.

KellyJameson
02-25-2014, 09:20 PM
In my opinion gender identity is innate in that you will adopt the identity of those you identify with because they seem like you and you seem like them so you "identify with females" as a female and dis-identify with males as males being "the other".

This is not conscious but happens on and in a feeling state that would always be with you from the very beginning that gives you a "knowing" without conscious awareness.

This happens in the first years of life and it is reinforced through continuous experience of both genders.

For some puberty causes a conflict because gender identity pulls you in one direction but sex "may" pull you in the other so the person tries to accept the body for sexual reasons that causes them problems related to living their identity.

The same forces that physically shaped the brain so the mind is innately predisposed to relate to the gender that reminds them of themselves, which when is opposite the body, will often affect the brain during "sexual expression" as well.

Think of your brain as female trying to have sex with a male body. It creates a type of dissonance where things do not seem exactly natural or "correct". You always feel something is "off" even if you are able to function "normally"

In my opinion when there is a split between body and mind (brain) to understand sexual attraction you must forget the body and think about who you want to be sexual with "as their brain/mind" and not their body.

In general females have a different attitude toward sex than males. They approach sex differently and you may find that you have a "female attitude" toward sex.

This has nothing to do with who penetrates who but how you relate to others as your mind relating to their mind in a sexual relationship.

The labels of heterosexual, bisexual or homosexual can really cause confusion because these labels are about the body and not the mind but sex always starts and ends in the mind and is expressed through the body.

It is really easy to become confused about gender if you think about sex as bodies and not as the mind.

I have never met a transsexual (who was willing to talk about the intimate aspects of their sexuality) that did not approach sex and making love like a woman does.

In my opinion a woman having sex with someone who is male bodied (pre-op) but female brained is having sex with a woman and they invariably will make a comment on how the experience is very different (for better or worse) than being with cisgendered men

In my opinion the same forces that shape gender affect sexuality and those who identify as transgendered are known for having a fluid sexuality, just like women do.

Your wondering about your sexuality makes perfect sense as anyone would if their body is opposite their brain.

This is a very different experience than same sex attraction but where the body and brain are one.

Homosexual men are obviously not transsexual women even though homosexual men have transitioned to have sex with straight men and why sex cannot drive transitioning but only identity.

Kaitlyn Michele
02-26-2014, 12:31 AM
I don't know Jenny, you have a lot going on and I think you are making a lot of potentially mistaken assumptions and connections.. seeing a therapist is not about just getting HRT in a few months (And you are mistaken if you think that if your needs were dire you couldn't very quickly get into a position to start HRT...its not that hard at all)... but HRT isn't the issue... its your gender identity...and what is the most constructive way to deal with it.

I don't buy your therapy excuse ..sorry...its in your best interest...its more important than anything else right now
You are not going to be able to solve this yourself...I would go so far to say if you are avoiding therapy you are avoiding getting real answers..its ok to go slow...you will do what you want, but avoiding therapy is unserious compared to a very serious situation if you are transsexual

A therapist would do many things for you including making sure you have the right information, and that you are better focused on your gender identity without all the crosstalk generated by your sexuality , and your attempts to communicate with your wife in a way that controls her most likely response.