lying by ommission

[Briana90802]

Since a lot of us here haven't ever told our SO that we crossdress is that a lie by ommission? Could this be one of the reasons that they are so upset when they find out? After all we don't always tell our SO every little thing. On one hand we all have secrets that we just keep to ourselves, beit CDing or an affair or something that was truly tramatic or even things that happened in a previous relationship. So is keeping something like CDing from our SO a lie if we don't tell them?

Thoughts please.

TIA

[Nadine Spirit]

I think it is, but most already know that about me. And no folks, I don't think it is important to tell my wife every single little thing, like how many crackers I ate for lunch or how many squares of TP I used in the restroom. But, anything of any sort of relevance, oh say like cross dressing, yeah that is pretty important to share with a SO.

[Jenniferathome]

This should be another sticky thread. Seen it a hundred times. Let the debate rage...

and yes, omission is the same as lying and omission of cross dressing is not to be compared to golfing or going to the can.

[Stephanie47]

Another old thread is resurrected! Sorry! This has been dealt with soooo many times. I don't call it a lie. It is an omission of pertinent information. The real issue is why a women gets really irate while others welcome a new sister and immediately go out shopping together. My viewpoint has always included a good dose of a women afraid of "guilt by association." "What will the world think?" "What's wrong with her?" "Why doesn't she dump her husband" He's a pervert." "The Bible says he's going to hell!"

I've been married for forty plus years. My wife knows I am completely heterosexual and devoted to her. She does not understand my cross dressing. Heck, i don't either. She wants nothing to do with it. I don't ask her to participate. It took a long time for her to accept that part of me as non threatening. Acceptance of my cross dressing desires has mellowed her towards others, who are gay or are lesbians.

I suspect most women, if they are told early on their man is a cross dresser, would dump him and troll for another. If I were a woman would I drop a man just because he wore a dress on occasion? No. However, i would never date a smoker! Or tolerate it in my home.

[Hell on Heels]

Everyone has a different situation. this question has been nagging on me since I joined (Thanks Nadine). For me I don't feel it's a lie, but certainly something that our SO's should be made aware of. But also for me, not telling is currently a way of protecting our relationship, not knowing how she may react to me telling her.
Without going into great detail about our relationship, and a life story, suffice it to say, there is just too much to lose if it turns out that she's not accepting.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[samanthasolo]

Well, if omission of the truth or not being forthcoming of IMPORTANT info isn't considered a LIE, I would say that at the least it is less than truthful and somewhat shady. So, I believe in my own opinion that it would be lying. Even though one might try to rationalize the omission as protecting the relationship, fear of a SO's recourse when the PERTINENT FACT comes to light, or any other many reasons that we all have heard or even possibly used ourself, we all KNOW that a healthy and successful relationship is not built on secrets, lies, or deceit, but is built on honesty and truth. We all also have to live with consequences and our own conscience.

[Kate Simmons]

If we need to confide in a partner on a daily basis, they need to know everything. Otherwise, it's like walking on egg shells all of the time and we never know when those eggs are going to break. Not to mention it can cause a lot of internal stress and strife.:)

[Erica Marie]

In my mind omission is lying. In the past when it came out it never ended in a good way because it was held back so long as a secret. So until when/if I ever find that just right girl for me. She will know before even a friendship starts. For me it will be the only way. But to each their own and every ones situation is different.

[Katey888]

Briana,

Yes - of course it's lying by omission. Mea culpa. It's the type of omission that happens when you don't understand why you do something, and that instigates a shame so deep you don't admit that thing to anyone - least of all someone you might want to share a life and bring up children with!

And without any further moralising from anyone about knowing what is right and what is ethical, take a look around at our world today and tell me why we should be so different and ethically superior in our relationships when this forum has a fair smattering of failed relationships, separations, divorces, broken families, psychologically scarred children... It doesn't always end with accepting SOs, shopping trips and dress up at home, does it?

There’s a sticky thread top of this section about tips on how to tell an SO – if anyone has any new ideas to help out all the ‘liers’ here – post them there, that's a positive step.

And there’s a sticky thread in Loved Ones on what GGs think of us ‘liers’ – so if you want to read about that you can do so there.

And if you want to discuss the philosophy of ethics, go and take a class in Socratic Discourse on your own time, but please don't try to peddle holier than thou morality to people in relationships that just might be different and more complicated than yours.

Next....? :Angry3:

[mykell]

O.K. ill go after Katey,

morally, ethically, philosophically, judgmentally, and clothing size this group should know one size does not fit all,
lock it...


thank goodness for spell check...

[Susan L]

Of course it's not a lie, it's deceit, and only you can answer if that works in your marriage. It's all about being true to yourself but in the end she will find out, just my humble opinion.

[Briana90802]

It would be surprizing to hear from someone that hasn't come out to their SO. As I read responses I get the feeling that some people see the world in absolutes, black and white, men and women, right and wrong. And yet All of know that this is not the case. That there are gray areas.
I'm sure there have been instances in your own lives where you didn't tell your SO about something that you weren't proud of e.g. Things like your road rage incident, finding someone else attractive, blaming the dog for that smell, etc... I guess the point is that as much as YOU want to ride up there on your moral high horse, we all skelitons(wearing dresses) in our closets.
Does that make it lying?

[Jacqueline Winona]

Wow, wish this would be the thread that forever ends this question, but we all disagree. I respect everyone's opinion on this but to me the answer is no, it is not. If you're point-blank asked and deny, then it's a lie. If the question never comes up, you really think you're done with dressing (and most of us do think that way when we're HOH in love), then no it isn't. Mistake? sure, but not a lie. If you can go years without dressing and deny urges or never get them then suddenly it comes back? Still not a lie. If you have to dress regularly to feel at peace, or can't get aroused without dressing? Then you've got an issue you need to talk about. But to the extent dressing is part time, not something you absolutely must do but something you enjoy once in a great while, it's no bigger lie than a married guy who when alone, ahem, well. . . you can figure it out.
I sincerely believe that 99.5 % of married couples don't know everything about their spouses, despite what every single one of us think we know. We are all individuals, some marriages are more communicative than others, but fairy tales are the exception and not the reality for most folks. There's no guarantee that your wife will or won't like this, and how we each handle this is an issue I don't like to judge.

[Alaina R]

The most important thing is would your SO feel it was a lie? For most of us, being a CD is part of who we are - and not a trivial part. To hide it means you are withholding a significant part of yourself from your SO. Obviously you need not tell someone the day you meet them but if you are going to marry someone it just isn't right not to tell them - it is their life too and, while they don't need to know every little detail about you, they do need to know the important things before agreeing to marry you. And for almost all of us, having CD desires or needs is an important part of us.

[PaulaQ]

I think it's lying - but there are extenuating circumstances:
1. Self defense. In an unfair world that treats us harshly, there is often good reason to keep such a secret.
2. Denial - frequently we lie to ourselves first, so we really believe crap like "I'll NEVER do it again."
3. Some spouses really don't wanna know.
4. Safety - coming out early in the relationship could be dangerous - the CD could be outed to her peer group, or even blackmailed.

None of this is particularly fair to most SO's though.

It's tough because the number of accepting SO's is still pretty low.

[kimdl93]

We've been down this path before. Of course, it's a deliberate omission and that is what corrodes the trust in a relationship. It really doesn't matter if it's lying about finances, staying out late with the boys, sneaking porn or CDing, anything that undermines trust is detrimental to a marriage.

The other problem with this omission is that it's so easily revealed. A pair of unfamiliar panties, some remnants of eye liner...or god forbid, a link to crossdressers.com in your browser history.

Honesty remains the best policy. If you fear the truth, fear accidental revelation of your secret even more.

[Rachelakld]

TMI
Is the information appropriate to share? is it the right time to share?
Is it the truth or the "current" perceived truth?

Imagine telling the Christians back in the 14th century that the earth was round, and went around the sun. The earth is made up of dusty crap left in this orbit, sun was 5 billion years old and the universe is 13 billion years old.
Some truths have it that everything was made in 6 days, we get to chose the truth that works best for us.
Sometimes the truth can be very inconvenient

Like wise

Sometimes omission is kinder than truth
Imagine a CDer who could suppress his interest for his whole life, yes he would be living a lie, yet his wife might think he is perfect, and this might have more significant meaning in his own life, and his truth would be "great husband"

[Eryn]

Yes, we've had similar discussions in the past. That doesn't mean that the discussion isn't valid now. After all, it's a male trait to deal with all problems once and for all. Many of us here, however try to emulate female characteristics and we're happy to mull things over more than once!

Here's my two cents:

I was in a rather difficult situation. I was in my early 50s, and for decades I knew that I had an "inordinate interest" in feminine things like makeup and clothing. My upbringing was that this interest was wrong, nothing that a real man would have. I therefore pushed this "perverse" (in my mindset of the time) interest back into the back of my mind and didn't discuss it with anyone. I didn't act upon it beyond occasional experimentation with a single item of clothing or makeup in private, feeling properly shameful afterward.

When I was single I confused my interest in feminine things with my interest in women. I figured, at least in the back of my consciousness, that getting married would put my "interest" to rest. It didn't, but after marriage there were many important things that occupied my attention and my very occasional experiments didn't seem to be that important or easily discussable.

Mind you, the concept of "crossdressing" wasn't even in my consciousness. To me at that time, crossdressers were flamboyant drag queens and that certainly wasn't me.

So, how could I "come clean" with my wife when I couldn't even define or confront the issue with myself? The fact is I couldn't. It was only after I felt the need to explore this side of myself and I finally dared to do some research into it that I developed a basis to bring it up with my wife.

[Marcelle]

Yup . . . way too many threads on this subject. Everyone knows my opinion on this so this gal will bow out of the debate and go back to living the dream.

Hugs all

Isha

[Beverley Sims]

Briana,


There are relationships with other women before you are married that could be sordid, you don't necessarily have to relate the intimate details, unless it is an argument going nowhere.

Then you shouldn't have the argument in the first place. :)

Previous experiences are not lying by omission, they are usually tactful ploys that keep a good marriage together.

Not mentioning your cross-dressing till later in the marriage on the other hand is not a tactful ploy.

I really don't think you can lie by omission.

I do know what you are driving at though.

[Krisi]

Lying by omission isn't an absolute. Is getting on this forum but not telling my wife about it lying by omission? What about a car or RV forum? Do I have to tell my wife about every relationship I had before we started dating or be guilty of lying by omission? Do I have to tell my wife the full extent and history of my crossdressing before I came out to her or be guilty of lying by omission?

I don't think it's a black or white issue, it's grey. And it's different for every couple.

[GingerLeigh]

Why do so many of us feel guilty when we keep it a secret? Much of the anxiety we feel is due to the fact we hide our true nature.
Lie? Maybe.
Deception? Likely.
Omission of truth? Absolutely.
Revealing the truth is up to you. I fault no-one for keeping it a secret. It's not an accepted behavior and there is much risk in revealing it.
We can hide our needs from our loved ones, but we can't hide them from ourselves. It just becomes more difficult to conceal as time goes on and it morphs into something larger.

ginger

[Tina B.]

Brianna, I always find this a fun question! First let me say, you don't have to tell every little thing you do to your wife, but lets be honest, this is not a little thing!
That extra donut with your coffee in the morning, that's a little thing, or oops, I forgot to stop and get the bread, little things. But I want to dress up like a women, and do it every now and then. It helps me get in touch with my feminine side. Not many women would see this as a little thing.
I'm not saying it's wrong, ever heard the term a little white lie, you know, the kind you tell yourself is for their own good. But justify as we might, keeping something this important from someone, just so you don't have to deal with the fall out, is the equivalence of a lie. I'm still not saying it's wrong, but it is an untruth in a way.
But for some, lying is what makes their life work, and the truth can set you free, I mean really free, as in divorced, so no one should tell anyone else just how to deal with it in their marriage. Lie, DADT, come out and tell all, you have got to know just what works for you, and not what others think is the right thing for you.
I got lucky, and got one of the rare ones that doesn't mind my dressing, but there are a lot of gals on here that can tell you, it didn't work out so well for them.

[Taylor Ray]

Well I certainly don't announce my personal interests to the world but when people come over to my house it is pretty obvious (by the decorations) that I am more effeminate than other males. So, what I don't understand is how can you possibly cohabitate with another human being and keep crossdressing a secret? Do you just have one outfit that you stuff in a bag at the bottom of a closet?

I don't have any pressing desire to dress in public, so I don't consider myself "closeted". When I am at home, however, I am free to be myself and have the things I want to have. So I guess there are crossdressers who are closeted in their own homes?

[MsVal]

Is non disclosure to a spouse or SO a lie? Technically not. But that niggling technicality has the potential to come back and bite you very hard in numerous tender places. To spouses and SOs it is on the same level as failing to disclose risque texts with a friend or intimate lunches with a coworker. When the hidden activity is disclosed at a late date or discovered, the downside is magnified by the intent to mislead.


...you've gotta ask yourself a question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk? - Harry Callahan in Dirty Harry

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tanya+]

I think it is tricky when the 'truth is something that is still forming within ourselves, its hard to communicate when it is still in flux, and it seems to me a bit unfair to blurt it out on an unsuspecting loved one as a whole; a truth like this kind of demands response, and a deep and loving response might come long after a big reaction.

My wife needs my strength, so i drip feed here my perspectives when i think she can hear them, and i back off and put no expectations on her. i don't want her to feel like i am taking a certain way f relating away from her.

Being skilful and kind with our truth takes a lot of thought and listening on our part. There is no one-size-fits all approach, You should take care of your heart and hers. Show your vulnerability, without taking away her trust and security. That is all i got anyway, good luck and take care.

[Allison_Leslie]

I think it's okay as long as you're in the assessment stage of figuring out if you are who you are.. but being real is ever so important in my book.
I think once you have made your decision to remain a crossdresser or to seek TG status.. I feel it is of vital importance to tell your SO... and take your time,
do so take your time and find the right way to do so, but by all means, I personally feel that since it's something that could very well be a deal-breaker for them,
if they had a dark secret that was a deal-breaker for you and kept it from you for so many years, you'd be highly pissed and feel your time was wasted
SO.. if its something good or bad, either way.. you need to save them the pain later on down the road and go ahead and tell them.. who knows it may actually strengthen your relationship and hey.. if they have to go.. love them and let them leave.

[Erica2Sweet]

Based on my own experiences early on with being a closeted CDer and dating, and my growing knowledge of human psychology, I can say that it is quite impossible to keep a secret as "big" as crossdressing from a spouse and not have it negatively impact the relationship. Often times it does so in a very traumatic and epic way. One of which that is common is the tendency of the CDer to unconsciously erode and eventually destroy the relationship in order to protect the crossdressing or the second gender identity that exists due to it.

All arguments over lying aside, isn't this enough to want to be open and honest in our relationships? After all, being able to be open and honest is freedom in its purest sense. Who really would want to live any other way?

Or, we could look at it this way: How does one place a high value on his or her relationship if it is maintained via deceit?... It's a trick question... ;)

[Nadine Spirit]

Very well said Erica.

[Wildaboutheels]

Most folks, include most who water here, do not live in the RW. Which is why they answer this question incorrectly. No sane person tells their SO EVERYTHING...

Unless they don't live in the RW of course. And then there are the multitudes here who proclaim that ALL CDers of every flavor are exactly alike so ALL must follow the same rules.

Living with one's head buried in the sand helps no one.

[Lorileah]

OK BS Wild, we all live the real world. You have beaten that horse to death even more than this subject.

The whole semantic thing is never going to be resolved. You say eeether I say eyether, Is it a lie? Who knows...your SO would probably think so. But people here will continue to hide it thinking they are protecting their SO or their So could not possibly understand or that their SO does not deserve the chance to be an adult and make their own decision. That is what you are doing, you are deciding on what your SO can or cannot handle, So at the very least it is a trust issue. Of all the people in the world, you should trust your spouse. Unless you are willing to allow your spouse to not trust you.

Comparing TGism to having an affair, or something you did when you were 16, or anyone of the "bad" habits and vices people like to compare it to is apples and oranges. If you you still believe that what you do is immoral or illegal or a mental illness, then keeping it hidden is understandable. The first person you need to admit you are TG to is you. Know that you are not alone or that what you do is not "wrong".

[PaulaQ]

Comparing TGism to having an affair, or something you did when you were 16, or anyone of the "bad" habits and vices people like to compare it to is apples and oranges. If you you still believe that what you do is immoral or illegal or a mental illness, then keeping it hidden is understandable. The first person you need to admit you are TG to is you. Know that you are not alone or that what you do is not "wrong".

The thing is, the complete picture of the real world is that our views on whether or not what we do is OK don't really matter - to most of the rest of the world, especially so many of the women in it, what we do is abhorrent.

I'm a big believer in the truth - hey, I came out! I didn't have much choice in the matter, I was literally coming apart at the seams, but I did it. I paid a price for it too. If you are going to be unfairly punished for telling the truth, to my mind the ethics of the situation are far from black and white.

The one thing I do agree with on this forum is that if you are a CD or otherwise on the TG spectrum, you should come out before your relationship gets serious. If she's accepting, you have a partner for life. If she isn't, you are just saving the both of you heartache down the line. (Assuming she doesn't blackmail you, or out you to all your friends or coworkers and otherwise wreck your life!)

Once someone's made the mistake of not coming out - and again, given the stigma associated with coming out, and sometimes the real danger involved, I can understand why it would happen - it's just a horrible, messed up situation no matter what you do.

See what I mean though? It's a real dilemma.

If you are invested enough in someone to really trust them with this secret, you have a LOT of reasons not to tell for fear they won't accept and you'll lose someone you care for. If you don't trust them - well, you could give them your bank account number too, and bad stuff might happen with that information too.

When to tell them is hard.

I'm not trying to rationalize this - it's a terrible problem, and it's worse when we haven't come out to ourselves. Hey, it took me 40 years to come out to myself, so I'm in no position to judge anyone.