A Question From My Daughter

[Eryn]

My daughter is participating in a seminar at college. She sent me a text that read:


I have a question on a topic we've been discussing a lot in my seminar and would value your unique perspective on: How do you define gender? And what do you think of the idea that gender is a performed activity, rather than innate, that sort of thing

I sent her a reply and offered to throw the question open here to see if any of you would care to respond. I'll pass the responses back to her without identifying information.

So, what say you?

[Rachael Leigh]

It's a great question especially for those of us who like to bend the lines. Reading the definition for me I do think it's a more than a role I get into but a place to go to relax and be someone that's different than the role or person I present on most days. It can be freeing and exciting all at once.

[lingerieLiz]

First you must define what is gender. Search for it on the net and you will see many variations of what gender is. If I was defining gender it would be what I perceived as my feeling of self. Not physical or presentation. I may present as female while being male and could feel that I was either. Or feel that I was really female in gender but present as male while physically being male.

I'm physically male and gender male, but I do find that I like to dress as a woman and sometimes present as female. Most times I dress in fem clothes, but present as male.

[kimdl93]

I see gender as an innate aspect of identity. My gender isn't something I chose to play around with or emulate. It's who I am. I was born male, but never felt quite at peace with that status and I learned to present or act male as a matter of self preservation. But in the absence of those external demands, I feel intrinsically female.

[Rachelakld]

Gender for me, is a place of contentment, a place of being

Having dual personality, I find harmony, contentment etc in several locations, in the bush looking down rifle sites, suspended on a cliff by a rope, under a car doing repairs, or having high tea, clothes shopping, finding the perfect heels, watching a chick flick.

My place of being is not in the performed activity, but more part of allowing myself to live within the "experience" the activity.

Ie. me, being me - then seeking out my activities

[Jason+]

I see gender as an innate aspect of identity. My gender isn't something I chose to play around with or emulate. It's who I am. I was born male, but never felt quite at peace with that status and I learned to present or act male as a matter of self preservation. But in the absence of those external demands, I feel intrinsically female.

My understanding of gender has been that it is more a representation of how you perceive yourself internally and how you identify yourself whether it matches biological sex or not. The part that feels constructed or a performed activity isn't the gender itself but the expectations for a given gender. Like Kim I was born male but that has never felt inherently wrong to me. I've felt pretty before but just haven't ever really felt female. All that seems to work well enough till I buck the constructs and put on a dress.

[marshalynn]

My gender is what my mind tells me I am, I feel female all the time, so I must be female, I do things that are normally done by males, but my mind says you are female at heart, so I must believe my mind , so my gender is female. I was born with a male body, but I think your gender is what your mind tells you. It took a very long time to feel this way..

[PaulaQ]

How do you define gender? And what do you think of the idea that gender is a performed activity, rather than innate, that sort of thing

I'm a transitioning transgender trans woman.

My definition of gender is that it exists within the architecture of our minds - it's literally how our brains are wired up, in my opinion. This is independent of the sex of the body - i.e. the set of reproductive organs.

I think gender is both innate and a social construct - at least gender roles, manner of presentation (clothing, etc.), gestures, and many vocal and speech patterns are pure social constructs. The difference between a male gender and a female gender is innate.

[Joanne f]

Hello Eryn,
I think that there are two sides to gender one being the perception of gender , in other words the way people will view or judge the gender of someone from what they can see on the outside of that person in looks ,moment and gestures regardless of what they are wearing and then there is the personal inner feeling that someone has of their own gender regardless of what they look like on the outside which as we know does not always match yet I would think it may only be the ones like us who actually question or look at their gender feelings within a conflicted way as others would simply have no need to question it and I am sure that is some of the problem of the lack of understanding from none questioning gender people .

[mbmeen12]

I have a question on a topic we've been discussing a lot in my seminar and would value your unique perspective on: How do you define gender?
Ans; Gender to me is, one is born and assigned at birth, when the doctor goes its a girl/boy! Or even when born a hermaphrodite.


And what do you think of the idea that gender is a performed activity, rather than innate, that sort of thing.
Ans; It good be performed from theater or Halloween, for the sake of fetishes or were we our today here on this site aka FtM or Mtf.

[noeleena]

Hi,

What is gender to myself , i have no idear because it appears to me to be something i have no control over and thought males and women = females were the same yes they looked different yet i did not see male or female and you know why,

for words to explain myself i can only say because im intersexed im a mix of both so do i swing towards male or do i towards female being both allows myself a freedom most dont have,

in your words no dought youll say im this or that, so i can be pigeon hold as a referance so your mind can at least have a landmark to refer back to .

to some im a male , look like a male to others im just that woman over there who shows other detail and manreisms, oh you are a female / woman, just look at my photo. its what do you see, meet me and youll know,

I never displyed being a male could not even think like one, yes i was percived as one though some knew different,

Gender = behavioral characteristics pertaining to and differentiating between masculinity and femininity, too many big words for me, okay

i embrace some of both very comfortably . yet Psychologically Mentally and Emotionally, im allmost compleatly female, body is in many aspects as well hormones = both. of cause one other deciding factor im non sexual no male or female organs,

There is an issue iv had and was thinking about it to day, about temper rage anger combined with strenth to diable a person and kill them when provoked a trait that i knew i had from very young as my father had this , only had a father 5 years, would you say this was a male trait or something , i did not find out about this till years later, though knew, deep inside,

i was allmost compleaty shut down mind wise, and memory till 10, his rage temper was such to allmost kill Mom and i, he allmost did it,

This is an extreme from male to a loving female and i have both,

You are wellcome to use my name and details , noeleena Loch-head, from Waimate NZ.

...noeleena...

[yvonne10]

I think it's just another label designed to differentiate the differences between male and female .but what happens when the two overlap in the way that nature has created in the likes of us etc

[Marcelle]

Hi Eryn,

Well I went to good old Oxford Dictionary for a definition of gender and no big surprise . . . "The state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones)"

So I guess for me gender by definition would relate to how we appear to those around us. If I am dressed "en femme" and use more feminine mannerisms then my gender expression is female and vice versa if I am "en boy". However, this is what society dictates as the norm for those genders (boys wear boxers, girls wear panties). It is interesting that one day I was taking my dog (male) for a walk and had grabbed the pink harness. Now people who stopped to talk always referred to my dog as "her" "she" "girl". Another time I had the blue harness opposite "him", "he", "boy". It just kind of shows how visually cued we are to make assumptions about gender and sex . . . before anyone asks . . . No I was not cross dressing my dog . . . we just have several harnesses from a succession of Huskies so we just grab the first one available :)

So I think if we look at the root of gender (Latin genus . . . kind, type, category) gender is just that . . . a comfortable way to place everything in a neat little box. As for me . . . I hate boxes so I am just going to go with "gender" as a concept or term which can help people identify things around them.

Hugs

Isha

[Kate Simmons]

From what I've read here and from what I've experienced with society in general, I'd say "gender" is pretty much anything we want it to be. Not everyone has the same perception. Making it work for us and being ourselves is the most important thing I feel.:)

[Beverley Sims]

I would tackle it from the definition angle.

Gender is the range of physical, biological, mental and behavioral characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, masculinity and femininity.

Now that is a pretty broad statement from my perspective.

Your daughter would get good marks tackling it from the definitive side.

Otherwise it is a 60,000 word essay and who would read that. :)

I wish your daughter well with her 2000 odd words allowed.

[Taylor Ray]

I am more traditional perhaps and differentiate between gender and "gender identity". The former I relate to biological anatomy; the later to many other variables already mentioned in this thread.

[Laura912]

I am genotype male and phenotype mixed. All the rest of the English language will not alter that.

[Georgia_Maine]

My definitions are simple:

Sex and gender are different. Sex is related to biological reproduction. Sexually one is male, female or in rare cases somewhere in between. Gender is both mental and cultural. One is masculine, feminine or, like many of us, somewhere in between - and it varies in different cultures.

Gigi

[GroovyChristy]

I think Gigi has got it right. Gender can appear dualistic but really exists on a huge spectrum, with what society contructs as extremely "masculine" on one end and extremely "feminine" on the other.

[Aeslyn]

On the topic of gender I would define it is an aspect of a person’s identity, whether internally constructed or externally imposed. It is something we feel which encompasses not only those internal feelings that are identified, though possibly falsely, with masculinity or femininity but also the external perceptions of what men and women are supposed to be and how those ideals and judgements constrict and affect us. Yes, even the shame and quilt one may feel over breaking the socially constructed and imposed ideals of gender are part of our identity, as are the abuse and oppression we suffer.
So far as innate or performed I would say that is quite complex. First, these are not necessarily competing concepts. Innate is inborn or natural, something you are born with. Some studies have been done which suggest that people who identify across gender lines or as a third gender were indeed born that way, however, this research is far less than conclusive. So I cannot say whether or not it is innate or chosen or constructed during our lives through process and practice. It may very well be. But it is also performed. We all have a performance of gender. The gender we perform may be the one we actually are or the one we are expected to be. I don't believe in the male/female gender binary but believe that gender and gender identity are more complex than any oppositional binary could ever express. A person's gender is not male or female but a composite of traits, feelings, and experiences. We may perform our gender identity as we see ourselves or as we are seen by others (that is as how people see us to actually exist not how they believe we should exist). Or, we may perform the gender which is prescribed as the “appropriate one” by our given society rather than the one we actually feel – conformity to the social norm. Whatever the case or our view of gender we all perform gender.

Whole books have been written on this, whole courses are devoted to this, and many academics in gender studies make their whole careers on this. So by comparison this is just my little thought.

[teri g]

I see it the same way as Gigi. Gender is a combination of your state of mind and social perception.

[Leslie Langford]

Some great insights here, and certainly the fundamental concept of "gender" is open to a whole host of interpretations. In the end, it seems to come down to who we feel we "are" and how we relate to the rest of the world within that context.

While biology may play a part in this whole process, I firmly believe that socialization from birth onwards has a lot to do with it as well. Who in our Western culture and in our current era decided that men get to wear only pants and otherwise dull and boring clothing, while for women, the sky is the limit as to what they can wear, with the emphasis on traditionally "feminine" clothes such as skirts, dresses, heels, and hose. Funny, I don't remember anyone asking me for my viewpoint on this subject.

And let's not forget that according to the gender Gospel, pink is for girls and blue is for boys, and girls are expected to be princesses and play with Barbie dolls, while boys should stick to G.I. Joes and video games. Heck, even Mother Goose drilled this into us from an early age by answering the rhetorical question of what little girls and little boys are made of: "Sugar and spice and all things nice" for the girls, and "Snips and snails and puppy-dog tails" for the boys. Time was, this type of stuff was called "brainwashing"; today, we'd call it "sexist"...either way, it boils down to gender-based typecasting and enforced conformity.

And as we all know, being gender-variant can bring us considerable pain and heartbreak, and often impacts very negatively on our relationships with others - often simply because we just don't "fit in". But being gender-variant can also be extremely exhilarating and empowering because of the unique perspective it gives us on life, and I think that even given a choice, most of us would still opt to remain transgendered because the "pros" far outweigh the "cons".

[DonnaT]

Gender is in the mind; sex is between the legs.


Gender is a person's self identity; sex is an identity assigned by another at birth.


Both are innate, in my personal opinion, and it just takes more time to discover what one's innate gender is.

[ReineD]

"Gender" has several facets/meanings. Most people take the fact that they identify as their birth sex for granted, so I'm guessing that for most people, "gender" means the masculinity or the femininity of gender roles. In this context I agree that gender is a performed activity, meaning that is is not absolute. It is socially constructed. We consider that things are feminine or masculine by universal, cultural agreement, and what is considered masculine and feminine changes throughout times and cultures. Witness women's roles in the work force in recent decades, evolving fashions, and men's changed household roles in view of current dual income families.

Are there non-physical differences between the biological sexes that are characterized as being more or less feminine or masculine? Fundamentally, I don't think so. Both the male and female sex are capable of the full spectrum of human emotion. Perceptions of what is considered masculine or feminine change according to cultures and individuals within some cultures. In pockets of our culture, it is OK for men to cry, for women to be competitive, and for both to be nurturing parents.

In terms of sexuality, I don't think there is a fundamental difference between genders. Both women and men can be objectified and sexualized. And both can NOT be sexualized.

So this leaves us with gender identity. Yes, there is something that causes us to feel aligned with those who share our sex, and makes us consider the opposite sex as the "other" camp. But I think the difference there is purely biological. I believe there is an understanding between beings who can give birth and lactate, even if they haven't or don't, as there is an understanding between those whose bodies are fashioned otherwise. Maybe hormones have an influence on this.

This isn't to say there isn't a mismatch between birth sex and gender identity for some people.

[Deedee Skyblue]

Check out the initial post in this thread:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?210445-A-message-sent-to-me

Deedee

[flatlander_48]

Independent of any physical indications, gender is who you believe yourself to be.

[ShelbyDawn]

This is a very interesting question.
The way I see it, we are 90% spiritual and and 10% physical beings.
Our sex, male/female, relates to our physical body.
Our gender is more fluid and emanates from our spiritual essence.

My therapist asked me to identify my masculine and feminine traits the other day and I could not do it.
Every trait I thought of was applicable to both men and women.

The day to day expression of my gender fluctuates along the spectrum of what society dictates as masculine and feminine dress. There are times when a more masculine appearance is desirable and times when a more feminine looks fits the bill. For most of society this is not the case.

As to the original question posed by the OP's daughter, I believe gender is at its very core innate to each of us. It is deeper than any physical trait and more crucial to our being. Now, how we choose to express our gender; that is absolutely a performed activity that runs the spectrum from high drama to tragedy to out right comedy. :)

:hugs:

Shelby

[devida]

If your daughter is at university she's probably reading Judith Butler ("Gender Outlaw") or the gender theorists who sprang up after she came up with the idea of gender performativity. Butler meant by gender performance both presentation (e.g a CDer en femme) and inner dialogue (me looking in the mirror and not seeing a man even if I haven't shaved) or the reinforcement of a gender identity through inner narrative and repetition. As most of the posters on this thread have indicated there seems to be an innate quality to gender that goes beyond performance and Butler's idea has been criticized by evidence from brain studies and by an argument we sometimes see on this board. This is the argument that if gender performance is all there is to gender identity then private signs (like dressing en femme alone or never in public) are all you need and that as a result social change is inhibited. This argument has been very successfully deployed in the coming out movement of the LGBT community. You can see this argument sometimes surface on this board in threads on coming out. I think the idea of performativity is all right but like most of the posters here I agree it is too narrow. Some of the other ideas in Butler's gender theory, like the argument that gender preference somehow results from the childhood prohibition against allowing a same sex parent as a love interest sound like Freudian twaddle to me. But I appreciate the work of gender theorists. They have certainly helped me develop an understanding of my own identity.

[Eryn]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I compiled them, removed identifying information, and sent them to my daughter. Her seminar meets again on Wednesday so it will be interesting to see what comes of it.

[suzanne]

Skimming some of this thread, I see some pretty long responses. I want to offer the sound bite version:

Sex is what's between your legs, gender is what's between your ears.

Dead on for me. Problem is, society thinks the two are identical and can't imagine that it could be otherwise.

[Kate T]

In keeping with our younger generations brevity of expression I offer the following.

Gender is innate. It's definition and expression is performed.