When does being TS end?

[I Am Paula]

I've called myself TS for a while now. It's a term I don't mind, and it often does the explaining for me. Without getting into another argument about labels, I want to discuss self perception.
A lot of girls here consider genital surgery to be 'the end'. You're finished, crossed that line, and now just 'woman'. Others will say that we've always been women, and transition was the TS part.
So, I will examine my own situation.

I'm in the midst of dealing with the legal. The moment my name change comes thru (maybe 5 more weeks), my ducks are in a line, and the rest follows quickly. The legal gender change in Canada is a simple matter of a letter from my Doctor, which I have. Consider that done.

I have socially integrated fully.

I'm pre op, or maybe non op. I haven't made up my mind. At the moment I don't need a vagina for it's intended purpose, but for reasons of completeness I'd kinda, maybe, like one.

I've dumped the breast forms, hip and butt padding, so what you see is what you get. Depending on mother nature I may have my boobs enhanced past the B cup they're at. Maybe. My own real hair on my head, and lasered off where I don't want it.

Canada does not require surgery to be a woman.

So...am I TS still, am I a woman, a trans woman, does having a penis force me to stay in that gray area as long as it's attached?

Am I done? I feel that surgery is really just work on the accessories, and womanhood is what you make it.

May I throw that big switch, like the one on an electric chair, that's labeled TS at the top, and woman at the bottom?

Does being TS end?

[whowhatwhen]

If you've already transitioned socially then there's not much point in saying you're not a woman despite any penile shenanigans.
It's really up to the person if they want to keep the trans- prefix.

I know some get a bit of flak for it but I think it's admirable to own your past and your journey to overcome it.

[Aprilrain]

your all woman till he wants to have sex with you then......

[stefan37]

You will probably get many different responses. Some leave it all behind and integrate fully as a woman and others remain in tranny land. It is a personal thing how one defines themselves. There are some that have integrated well, live, work and socialize as a woman yet have not had srs. There are many that have had surgeries and again have integrated and live work and socialize as a woman. Yet there are some that have had srs and just can't get past some issues and continue to live in tranny land. My goal is to at some point move past this awkward transitional phase and integrate as a woman.

Srs is a hugely personal decision. There are srs fanatics that advocate you are not a true woman if you don't have the surgery. The surgery is the easy part. It i the after care that demands a tremendous level of commitment and time. I can understand how some late transitioners would not want to undergo srs because of the intense aftercare. There are many that absolutely need it or their distress is not satiated. And still others are completely comfortable with what is between their legs.

I have also heard that the real work doesn't really start until after srs. My goal is to do the hard work to integrate and be accepted as a woman and when the time comes for bottom surgery that will be the icing on the cake.
There will be an endpoint for me and it won't be ts.

[I Am Paula]

The reason this question came up, other than to get a discussion going, was that last week I met a 19 year old, who, other than SRS, was perfect. In fact, I didn't know she was trans until some more girls arrived, and the conversation started. I mentioned how perfectly passable she was, and lamented that I still had work to do. Her response floored me. In complete honesty she said,"Honey, you're done, don't touch a thing." It was the nicest compliment I've ever had.


your all woman till he wants to have sex with you then......

even without lady parts, I figured that one out as a teenager.

[arbon]

To me it does not matter so much anymore, I am pretty happy where I am at. Am I a woman, TS, trans woman? All? Its fine for me. I used to desire just being a woman and getting beyond trans anything but its changed as I have realized its just not such a big deal for me. As long as I am not a man!

[Rianna Humble]

As others have said, I think it is a fairly personal decision when you stop using the trans* prefix.

Some of us will nev er be able to bury the transition stories, but I don't think they are what define us.

For the most part, I just regard myself as a woman but I know that as long as I am still in transition, then the prefix will be technically accurate.

[MatildaJ.]

your all woman till he wants to have sex with you then......

Ciswomen can have physical issues which prevent vaginal penetration.

[PaulaQ]

Ciswomen can have physical issues which prevent vaginal penetration.

But generally the physical issue isn't a penis...

I listened to a couple of my gay friends talking about something that kind of shocked me.
A: "He's a freaking closet case and he's a pain in the ass!"
B: "Why do you think he's a closet case?"
A: "He's living with a woman who has a DICK! He's totally GAY!"
Me: "Uh, excuse me - do you mean that he's living with a transgender woman?"
A: "Yeah, I guess so. But I thought you had to have a vagina to be a woman?"
Me: "Am I a woman, A?"
A: "Course you are!"
Me: "I don't have a vagina either..."

So I guess the moral of that story is mostly that you can call yourself whatever you like, but other people sort of decide what they think of you for themselves, and that your opinion about it won't make much difference to them.

[Rachel292]

I basically agree with Paula.

For me , it's when you stop travelling along your journey and are officially classed as a woman. Be that with or without SRS.
So it's basically down to you.

However a lot comes down to perspective and unfortunately knowlege of your past. For those that knew you as classified as 'male' , they may accept and see you as a woman, but will they always see the prefix 'trans'. If they don't know then most people now seem to accept people as they find, or are introduced to them.
If you are young and do not have or have not aquired masculine features then this is much easier. You can know you are a woman, the world can officially accept you as a woman, but there will always be something at sometime.

For me if you want to drop the 'trans' because you have completed your journey, then that is the time to do it.

[celeste26]

Like it or not we all had some time living life as a male. Some more than others. By maintaining the "Trans", you honor that time of your life. It is purposeless to continue to hate/dislike that period of time in our lives, its gone and wont be coming back. In a sense we are always the same person, even if we go through some big changes.

On the other hand, it can be rather disconcerting for others when we are too upfront about the trans part of us. There has to be some balanced way to deal with it and everyone here will eventually find that balance.

[Leah Lynn]

Timely topic for me, Paula. This past week I skipped my meds a couple days. I've been on them for six months now, and my thoughts run rampant. I was thinking that it's quite unlikely that I'll reach the "Destination", also known as SRS. I was thinking that if I cannot attain the physical change, then why the hell am I even bothering to do this? Win the race, or don't enter the event. I'm back on them, as I think I can be satisfied with attaining something a little farther down the road. If I make it that far, I'll try to go even farther. And continue, one step at a time. For some time I've been planning to do the name change and start RLE at the end of this year, or early next year. That is my present goal. If I can make it there, I'll consider myself a woman. Later, I'll set another goal. I am trans now, just not out to the world yet. If the reaper don't get me, I'll make it. Someday, somehow.

Leah

[Angela Campbell]

I feel that when people know about my past...specifically if they knew me before....that is when I am trans. When around people who do not know any of that I am just a woman. So far no one has asked to look in my pants for proof.

[MatildaJ.]

your opinion about it won't make much difference to them.

Nor should their opinion make much difference to you. Look, people suck. And what they say behind other people's backs is rarely generous or open-minded.

Nevertheless, I don't see why anyone should let their anxiety about sexual intercourse determine how they see themselves or how they present themselves to the world. Don't have sex with people until you're confident that they won't freak out when they hear about your particular situation. Take the time to get to know the other person, find out their baggage and let them know yours. All of us, cis or trans, girl or boy, straight, gay, bi or pan -- we all have baggage.

Read this piece from Autostraddle (which is an amazing site for queer trans folks, wherever they end up on the sexuality spectrum):
http://www.autostraddle.com/please-dont-thank-me-for-loving-my-wife-192747/

"I happened to be blessed with a body that matches my identity, but I am not without my share of struggles, and those struggles taint everything about my life...If she wanted to, my wife could have found someone better than me. Someone who was more understanding, less insecure, and mentally healthier...If anything, my wife is the one who has had to make very serious sacrifices to be with me. That's the funny thing about real love, though. I'm not the first to make this observation, but it is never a fairy tale. It's never a story in which two wealthy, healthy, perfect people fall madly in love and go on to have their flawless Happily Ever After. It's also never a story about one perfect person choosing to love a broken individual out of altruism. Love--real love--is invariably the story of two troubled people who understand and accept each other's troubles, but choose to face them together."

No, but seriously, go read the whole thing.

And then read this:
http://www.autostraddle.com/im-a-trans-woman-and-im-not-interested-in-being-one-of-the-good-ones-172570/
and this:
http://www.autostraddle.com/lana-wachowski-trans-director-of-the-matrix-gives-touching-speech-that-will-probably-make-you-cry-done-148515/
and this:
http://www.autostraddle.com/know-me-where-it-hurts-kink-cerebral-palsy-226077/

And remember that everyone has baggage. Everyone is flawed. Everyone need to be forgiven for all the times they will screw up, and everyone needs to forgive their partner when they get hurt.

[Inna]

I am a woman!

I have fought relentless battle to arrive here. I have NOT required anyone to bend rules of perception for me, as I had my own to prove, and get the tools necessary for absolute integration into visual aspects of daily life.
Those who ask the society for respect or tolerance will some time get it, perhaps they will get it nearly always, however, call me perfectionist, I couldn't put the deciding vote, of who I am, into the hands of usually oblivious, always categorical and relentless society at large.
So I have gotten FFS and through all the tools, transitioned my Avatar, to resemble the innate gender I always felt true.
I have become the woman I was, however now, I also embodied the sensuality I innately was born with.

I am interacted with, work, play, home, and always get respect for who I am, a woman.

But the road to that absoluteness is not over as it encompasses sexuality as well. Nor is the reality of the past for ever erased. I am a woman reborn from the ashes of deceit and a survivor of a birth defect so dreadful as to twist ones reality and sentenced truth into darkness.
I will never deny my past, as now I do understand it clearly, and to anyone needing clarification, I was always a woman, and I absorbed life as one, but through deficiency during embryonic development, I ended up living part of my life in a borrowed, Male Avatar.

[Eryn]

It's semantics. Some will say that simply having the desire to be a woman makes you a woman. On the other end of the spectrum are those who say that you aren't truly a woman until you've produced a child.

Along that range you have to decide on your own definition of womanhood based upon your own feelings. If you let other people choose for you they will choose what they want, not what you want.

[PretzelGirl]

I think it is totally how you want to identify. I have only put a small amount of thought in this at this early point. But I think I will use TS as I transition and to educate as it is a necessary thing for understanding. But to all new people and eventually to all people, I will be a woman. What is under the covers is for me and my wife to know and that is it.

[PaulaQ]

Nor should their opinion make much difference to you. Look, people suck. And what they say behind other people's backs is rarely generous or open-minded.

If only they'd comment behind your back...


Nevertheless, I don't see why anyone should let their anxiety about sexual intercourse determine how they see themselves or how they present themselves to the world. Don't have sex with people until you're confident that they won't freak out when they hear about your particular situation.

I agree with you that we shouldn't let others determine how we present to the world, or how we see ourselves. However, I can also tell you that most of the time when I tell people "I'm trans" (often they are surprised now - yay for passing better), I cease to be a human being, and become an anatomical curiosity. "How cool - one of those" at best. A more typical response is they quiz me on which parts I still have, and sometimes on whether or not I can get pregnant. (I'm not making that one up.) Believe me, there's just nothing like seeing the cute little butch lesbian girl who's hitting on you's face fall when you mention "oh, I'm trans." (Lucky for me, I don't need attention from anyone else, at least not that way.)

Anyway, I can understand the anxiety about it. I am out about it because I am ornery, and I refuse to live in the closet, or in fear. It isn't much fun though. It is time efficient though. I figure out really fast who's not even worth bothering with further.

[FurPus63]

I want to discuss this in a new thread, but will touch on it for now in this one. For me being TS is something I feel I will always be. I plan on having SRS and can't live a saine life without it. I'm sorry. I've been too socialized for way too long, and for me personally, I have to have a vagina for several reasons. However; I have always felt (ever since I was able to accept myself as transsexual and come to understand it fully) we all are going to be TS for as long as we are alive on this planet. Post-op or not. Yes it is true that we can drop the label anytime we want. Pre-op or post. However; isn't a technical reality we were not born girls. We were not born with vaginas, wombs, a uterus, felopian tubes, etc... we were born with a penis, we developed through puberty with increases in our testoserone, we grew up and lived our lives as men, etc..... How can we ever classify ourselves as something other than transsexuals??

[PaulaQ]

@Paulette - I consider myself to be a woman. Although your points about our pasts are, of course, totally correct, I tell people I'm transsexual not because of those reasons, but because I refuse to be invisible. That for most of us, our plights can be laid DIRECTLY at the feet of a society that reviles us, ignores us, and avoids treatment of us. I don't intend to let them forget that so easily by disappearing without a peep.

[Angela Campbell]

. How can we ever classify ourselves as something other than transsexuals??

Pretty easily. Do the work, make the changes, move on with life and don't let it make you a victim. I only have a few things left to go and then I am not looking back.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Furpus

You can do yourself a good turn and try to focus on the practical realities. I can totally understand your point of view, but what I learned through transition is that many things I thought before HRT, before FFS and especially before SRS were just totally off when I actually experienced it. You actually have no idea how you will feel.

What can happen is that you just won't care. GD is gone...you are fine...the whole gender thing drifts away except to the point of where it impacts you in a practical way, and they you deal with it.
The worst is telling a prospective partner ...not because it hurts us, but because its a risk that you will lose that person... there will be other times as well but once again you just deal with the day to day situation and you don't walk away from situations where you sit there considering how you label yourself.

[I Am Paula]

I think that way down at response #7 Angela, and a few others, may have the best answer for me. To those that knew me before, I will always be trans. It is not something I'm ashamed of, and I would have to move a long way to escape them. They are my friends, and colleagues.
To those I meet at this point in my transition, I can just be a woman. I have a bad habit of telling people. Like I have to explain even before being asked, or I have something to hide if I don't lay it right out on the table. When I meet someone new, as with anybody, they give me the once up and down. I always see this as a cue to say 'I'm trans', instead of 'yeah, I'm tall'.
Since I'm not ashamed, hell, I'm proud of what I am, I should still wait until (if ever) an explanation is nessasary.
I've never really felt it made any difference if I introduced myself as trans or not, but I'm beginning to think I used it as a bizarre safety net, once they knew, it explained things that may not have needed explanation. It's easier as an example.
People may think 'What a homely woman' (do they, I don't know?), or 'Pretty good for a tranny'. Which is better, or which is worse?
I think, from this day forward, I will try to be Paula, the woman. Has a certain ring to it.

[PaulaQ]

Paula - you've been "Paula, a woman" the entire time I've known you on this forum!

That part isn't a question, and you owe no one any explanations, apologies or rationalizations for why you are who you are!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Day by day Paula.

The difference between now and then is not whether you are a man or woman... its not even totally that you lived as one or other...its that you are actually feeling what its like to be you... that's what matters..

trust me, how you think of that today is going to change over time as your own sense of self thrives for the first time ever in your life!

[arbon]

I have a bad habit of telling people. Like I have to explain even before being asked, or I have something to hide if I don't lay it right out on the table

I rarely tell people I am trans its more I just don't really care if they figure it out or learn it from someone else. I don't owe them any explanations and don't usually give them. With my better friends I will be more open about it and they can talk to me - I don't want them to feel like they are walking on egg shells around the issue with me. On my FB page I talk about it sometimes.

If an explanation is necessary I will give it. But it is rarely necessary. Even when I was being booked into jail a couple weeks ago I stayed quiet about it, if the cops brought it up fine I would talk to them but otherwise there was no reason to. And this sunday I got a long professional massage from a lady out of town who does not know me I just figured she would figure it out or she wouldn't, and if she has a problem with me I'll deal with it when I need to.

[Inna]

and one more thing.....

Fear within us and nagging dysphoria make for an unstable ground and cause for explanations and excuses. When we do hear descriptive, such as you are tall, your hands are big, wow, your shoulders are really muscular, etc. our dysphoric mind immediately jump to a conclusion that it is "Trans" they are thinking!
When in fact they may just simply think, "oh tall woman, I wish I was taller"