confused.

[709love]

I have posted before about my bf being a cross dresser mainly limited to lingerie but recently things have escalated and he likes to full dress with makeup and shoes and I fully support that but the other night we had a few drinks and he admitted to me that he is attracted to some men and that he has given and received oral sex from multiple men in the past. He says he hasn't had intercourse with any men but the thing about my bf is he leaks a little truth at a time, so I think their may be more to the story and that he probably has had intercourse with men in the past. He insists he is not gay and is not bisexual and im just trying to understand him. My main reason for being upset is that I've asked him in the past if he has been with men and he has denied it but I guess with a few drinks in he got some liquid courage. I believe he is attracted to me but im not sure if it's for me or because I've been so supportive of his cross dressing and sexual needs. Anyone have any insight on this??

[Leann68]

I would think that how he treats you would be a good way to judge just where he is at. If he is attracted to you in the bedroom and takes care of you needs that says a lot about what he is thinking.

[bridget thronton]

I would say he is likely bisexual - unless the events occurred a long time ago and in his teens (I do not find any fault with folks who are gay or bi, but for now it seems I prefer women and monogamy)

[Penny M]

WOW! I could have written this post myself! I am in the exact same situation with my bf. Only he confessed to having sex with she-males (I hope that is the correct term, I certainly do not mean to offend). He claims that because they present themselves as women that he is not gay or bisexual. I am thinking that maybe he is bisexual. I am just confused. I will read your thread with great interest. I thought of posting my question about this myself, but had not mustered up the courage. Thank you.

Penny

[Beverley Sims]

It may be the drink talking too.
It is something you may have to evaluate.
I would question him when sober.
Noting wrong with men who cross-dress and lead a wild lifestyle, if that is your interest.

[5150 Girl]

Sounds like he bats for both teams, and doesn't want to admit it. Possibly due to a conservative upbringing?
Ya know, of he's trading oral...

[EllieOPKS]

For both of you ladies, first - your bfs are at minimum bi. Having sex with another guy, whether he is dressed as a girl or not is at minimum bi. There's nothing wrong with that. I wear womens clothes but I am not a cross dressers. Really? They should just accept who they are.
Final note to the girlfriends - protected sex with you should be an absolute must.

[mariehart]

Most likely he is bisexual. I am too although I think the label is not helpful. I prefer to say I'm sexual. Some people say bi-curious If he was gay he wouldn't be with you. The main thing is that he isn't having sex with anyone else except you right now? After all most of don't worry that our partners had previous straight relationships.

Obviously he is letting out a little bit of truth at a time. Let's face it he would have been worried how you'd react if he had announced that he was a crossdresser and had previously had sex with men.

Of course the real question in your mind is what's next? Will he eventually reveal he's transsexual and wants to transition. That's unlikely but you need to address that issue if only to eliminate it.

I suppose what you really need to decide exactly what you are prepared go along with. Essentially right now you know he's a crossdresser and in the past he has had sex with men and presumably other women too. You say you're comfortable with the crossdressing. So it's the sex thing that bothers you. But whether someone is gay, bisexual or straight once you are in a relationship then it's expected that there is no cheating. It's irrelevant whether he was with men or women in the past. It's what he's doing now that counts. The whole point of being bisexual is that a person is attracted to both men and women. It doesn't mean he's cheating now.

None of us here can really judge the strength of your relationship with him. That's for you and him. I do think you really need to talk without the aid of drink. If he's in love, attracted to you and monogamous then you have your answer. If not there's a problem.

He will tell you the full truth if he's comfortable that you won't react badly. But you have to let him know that. But you also have to be sure you're ready for the full truth.

But in reality you may already have the full story. He's a crossdresser who has had sex with other people in the past.

Good luck.

[Katey888]

First of all, 709love and Penny, welcome - we have an intro section you might want to check out and a second section for GGs (genetic girls) to introduce themselves.

In general, the CD environment is quite mixed in terms of sexuality - and it's important to distinguish sexuality and sexual attraction from gender... two quite different things, as I have learned. :)

If a male is attracted to, and willingly participates in, a sexual act with another male, as well as is known to have sex with females I'd have to say that is unequivocally bisexual behaviour.

If a male is attracted to, and willingly participates in, a sexual act with another male, who is presenting as female - that is more complicated. If it's just for sex, I'd say that's bi - behaviour - if there was some sort of relationship involved, where the presented gender has some relevance to the interaction (ie. the male presenting as female is doing so because they wholly or predominantly feel female) then it is possible that this can be a 'gender' hetero relationship.

But without wishing to be judgemental, these examples sound a bit like sex for the sake of sex or experimentation.

I'd counsel some serious straight talking is required with both your partners... and yes, do be careful in the meantime.. :)

Katey x

[PaulaQ]

@PennyB - the term 'She-male' is a mortal insult to transgender women, [deleted racist examples. My sincerest apology to the forum for using language which offends people. I forget sometimes that as a non-person I have no such expectations - matters little how language affects me, my feelings aren't real.]

Your SO can be straight and attracted to transgender women. Some men are, and while not all of us trans women appreciate these men, some of us who are attracted to men do. Many such men have a hard time understanding their sexuality because most of the world, apparently including this forum this morning considers person with a penis = man, sex between that person and a man = gay sex, even if the first person with a penis is a transgender woman, such as myself.

As for 709love, you need to be patient and loving, and try to get your SO to talk honestly about his sexuality. (Both you and PennyB need to do this, and do it without judgment.) If your SO is bisexual, you have to understand that this can be an incredibly difficult thing for men to face. Bisexuals, especially bisexual men, are tolerated badly in both the straight and the gay communities. There is no reason a bisexual person - if that's the case here, and we don't know that yet- can't be a faithful and loving partner.

Really this applies to both men in mentioned in this thread, given what's been said so far. They are trying to level with you - but fear judgment.

In case you wonder why they fear this - both men mentioned face a lot of social stigma. Look how quick people here stick them with labels, and then understand that people on this forum, by and large, HATE labels applied to themselves.

[Jenniferathome]

He's lying. He's gay or bi. Your concern should be about infidelity and the lying. What else is he lying about? He may be attracted to you but will you allow him to have homosexual contact while being faithful to him? Infidelity is a deal breaker for me.

[ReineD]

Hi 709love and Penny M, welcome!

Let me offer a GG's way of looking at things.

I understand your confusion. But ultimately, it doesn't matter what labels your boyfriends are … gay, bi, hetero, or alternate hetero depending on how the genetic male they are attracted to is dressed or identifies. What matters is that your bfs have the potential to be attracted to persons who offer an appendage that you cannot compete against. And this can be cause for some anxiety.

It's true that most of us (unless we are into open relationships) expect monogamy. But even in traditional hetero committed relationships, there is always a risk, if even slight, for a straying eye - especially when the newness of a relationship wears off. What woman hasn't been to a party with her SO and checked out the competition? :p But, it's easy if we only need to compete against other women. After all, we have the same equipment and the same ability to enhance it if we want to. It's another matter if the object of attraction has something that we physically cannot have. Not that our SOs would necessarily go for it, but if they have sexual thoughts about other women we can bring our SOs home and make them forget that. lol. Not so if the thoughts go to sexual possibilities with people who have what we have not.

So yeah, I sympathize with your concerns. The potential to be sexually attracted to multiple sex/gender combos seems to be (according to many threads in this forum) rather prevalent among the CDing community. This is simply one aspect of baggage we do have with gender fluid SOs that we don't have with non-CDers. There can be a "is he or isn't he attracted to someone who has stuff I can't compete with" concern niggling at the back of our minds.

The best advice I have is to talk to your SOs if you are feeling at all insecure. Above all, also be secure in yourselves and in your abilities to attract your SOs. I have personally weighed all the above and have decided that the relationship with my SO is worth it. I guess every relationship has its own baggage.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi 709, It sure sounds like you have a Bi Guy.

[PaulaQ]

I've thought it over some more, and you know what? I've changed my mind. You ladies will never be judged harshly for dumping these losers. I mean - a man who'll have sex with another man? Such a person obviously has no self respect, and that includes even men who are she-males!

Sure, you could try to understand them, but you'll probably just get HIV for your efforts at tolerance.

Just save yourself some grief and bail. Believe me, no one will judge you for it!

Edit: bummer that neither guy mentioned is a good ol' red-blooded all-American STRAIGHT crossdresser! Because that's way more manageable!

[docrobbysherry]

I think you're playing with fire with this "guy", Love. He's obviously enjoying playing the field. And, with bi's the "field" includes nearly everybody!

Stay with him if u enjoy being with him. For as long as you're enjoying the relationship. But, I'd advise against accepting an engagement ring from him!

[Chari]

IMO the "bi-guys" are using the GG's as a stepping stone/back up plan in case all of their other sexual adventures come crashing down. Advise you get out of the relationship NOW before you have major social issues!

[sillycdlover]

Hi 709love and Penny M, welcome!

Let me offer a GG's way of looking at things.

I understand your confusion. But ultimately, it doesn't matter what labels your boyfriends are … gay, bi, hetero, or alternate hetero depending on how the genetic male they are attracted to is dressed or identifies. What matters is that your bfs have the potential to be attracted to persons who offer an appendage that you cannot compete against. And this can be cause for some anxiety.

It's true that most of us (unless we are into open relationships) expect monogamy. But even in traditional hetero committed relationships, there is always a risk, if even slight, for a straying eye - especially when the newness of a relationship wears off. What woman hasn't been to a party with her SO and checked out the competition? :p But, it's easy if we only need to compete against other women. After all, we have the same equipment and the same ability to enhance it if we want to. It's another matter if the object of attraction has something that we physically cannot have. Not that our SOs would necessarily go for it, but if they have sexual thoughts about other women we can bring our SOs home and make them forget that. lol. Not so if the thoughts go to sexual possibilities with people who have what we have not.

So yeah, I sympathize with your concerns. The potential to be sexually attracted to multiple sex/gender combos seems to be (according to many threads in this forum) rather prevalent among the CDing community. This is simply one aspect of baggage we do have with gender fluid SOs that we don't have with non-CDers. There can be a "is he or isn't he attracted to someone who has stuff I can't compete with" concern niggling at the back of our minds.

The best advice I have is to talk to your SOs if you are feeling at all insecure. Above all, also be secure in yourselves and in your abilities to attract your SOs. I have personally weighed all the above and have decided that the relationship with my SO is worth it. I guess every relationship has its own baggage.

Please listen to this wisdom. I can tell you from my own experience that being BI or even BI Curious, only opens up more avenues down which one may travel. Your SO may never stray from you, but if he does it may just as likely be with another woman. If you think he is craving some "manly" attention, get yourself a strapon and surprise him with it. You may be more surprised by how much you like giving, than by how much he likes receiving.

[Karren H]

"leaking the truth" is a polite way to say lying.... kick him to the curb and go find someone who will tell your the truth.....

[PaulaQ]

"leaking the truth" is a polite way to say lying.... kick him to the curb and go find someone who will tell your the truth.....

Such as the truthful, truthful denizens of this forum, all of whom came out early in the relationship, right ladies?

Of course the two guys in question ARE talking about their issues before marriage - the lying SOBs! How can you trust someone who tries to have a difficult and scary conversation before marriage ! You just can't, obviously!

[Tracii G]

I think I would exit the relationship.
He is not being truthful IMO.
The sex maybe great and you may love him but if there is no trust then the relationship will continue to suffer.

[PaulaQ]

OK, I'll try to give a less ironic and more helpful answer.

@709love and Penny M -

It is incredibly difficult for many men to honestly and openly discuss their sexual orientation if they are bisexual, or even straight, but attracted to transgender women. (Which I guess the latter is technically pansexual.)

Both of these things are pretty highly stigmatized in our society. You add in their cross dressing, and these men are probably very scared, and possibly quite confused over their sexuality. Encouraging them to be as open as they can be, and being non-judgmental can help them talk to you. Keep in mind, they probably don't entirely trust either of you - the world usually demonstrates from a young age that those of us who are different somehow better keep our mouths shut, and if we are able to hide our difference, we'd best do that.

I presume both of these guys are trying to bring this stuff up to you before you are too far along into the relationship? If so, then it seems to me that they are at least trying to be honest. Why the other forum dwellers here are so quick to throw them under the bus escapes me.

You do need to get the whole story from them - assuming there's more to tell. There may not be. (Nobody seems to consider that possibility though!)

Look, if your SO either experimenting with men or being bisexual is a deal killer for you, then I guess just end the relationship. Likewise, if attraction to a trans woman by your SO is just repugnant to you (I can understand why that would be so - women like me are absolutely repellent to many genetic women of all sexual orientations), perhaps you should end that relationship.

- OR -

You could try to foster communications between the two of you, and realize that no one is perfect, we can't choose our sexual orientations, and that these men may be capable of a loving and committed relationship, if you get to know them and give them a chance.

[Ezekiel]

Well in my opinion, he is bisexual. But that does not mean he is going to betray you with anyone else. The best you can do is talk with him seriously about the issue, tell him what is bothering you and that you are very interested to sort this out for the betterment of your relationship.

Like Paula said, this things are usually hard to speak about, you have the pressure of society and expectations to deal with, everywhere, and it pushes you into being secretive and scared. When you are different from the norm you are used to deal with rejection because of the very essence of these issues, which makes one getting used to keep this kind of stuff secret.

Edit: By the way, why is it always someone ends up mentioning AIDS when bisexuality (or anything related) is the subject?

[PaulaQ]

Edit: By the way, why is it always someone ends up mentioning AIDS when bisexuality (or anything related) is the subject?

Homophobia, which is pretty rampant on this forum. I actually explicitly mentioned it in an attempt at irony since a veiled reference or two had been made to it.

[Stephanie47]

There are at least two issues here. Without regard to sexual orientation I would recommend when starting a new relationship one should take precautions as to not contract any STD's.

Your personal satisfaction in the relationship should matter. If you want a one on one relationship, that should preclude any other relationship with another man or woman-period. It really does not matter if his past acts indicate bi sexuality, homosexuality, attraction to men when attired as a woman, whatever.

Your friend's attitude as to what constitutes sex seems to be on par with a former political figure. "I did not have sex with that woman!" What constitutes sex? Frankly, he has had sex with men.

[johnboy23]

Sounds like lie after lie. One or two lies, ok. Going on three I would leave. Lied about dressing and lied about men. There are only so many lies that you can put up with. If you want to work it out then let him know to tell you the truth of everything and if he lies again then your out.

[DeeArel]

As long as he is monogamous, it does not matter.

[julia marie]

I wouldn't focus on his sexual preference so much as his credibility. From what you posted, it sounds like he has a tendency to hold back on the truth in general. Bad sign.

[kimdl93]

Lots of heterosexual males did some experimentation in their teens or young adult years, mostly to find it just wasn't for them. If your bf says he is attracted to some men, that suggests at least the the experimenting may not be over. In a nonjudgmental way, ask him to be as honest with you as he would be with himself about his level of attraction...is it something he would want to explore, and about his sexual history. I assume you two are sexually active, and so as his sex partner, his sexual history is now also yours. You have a right to know if he has taken risks of exposure to STDs and frankly you both should be tested.

That doesn't mean he isn't the right person for you. But he needs to understand that this is important stuff, too important to hide until alcohol loosens his tongue.

[Elizabeth36]

I am finding this an interesting thread and I relate to the original poster. My Boyfriend cross dresses and I am completely accepting. He, however, spends a lot of time chatting on a TV dating site to other CD and admirers. We have discussed this and he admits he is having cyber sex. He says he needs the validation of being seen as a submissive woman by a man or dominant CD. He maintains online you do what you don't do in real life. I fear this is online sex addiction/fetish. He is very much in the closet with this. He also recently told me he can only get aroused if he is seen as a woman. I'm glad at this point he is openly sharing these things with me but it's a lot to process. Any thoughts on this within the context of this conversation?

[ReineD]

Elizabeth, over time I've read many posts by CDers who say and do the same things. It seems to be rather common.

So tell me ... how do you feel about all of this? Are you OK with the cyber-sex and your bf only becoming aroused if he feels that he is seen as a woman?

[char GG]

709love; you should ask yourself the question, is he worth it? Do you want to continue down this path with him?

[audreyinalbany]

I sure don't understand all of the cd's here who advise dumping these guys because of their lack of honesty. As a group, it seems as though our SO's have to practically pry the cross dressing secret out of us, so I'm pretty hesitant to condemn anyone who has difficulty being completely up front about such personal issue.

[Penny M]

PaulaQ,

Thank you for your honest thoughts on the matter (and humor). Also, thank you for the clarification on my poor use of word choice. I did not mean to offend in any way. Joining this site was my first (well 2nd maybe considering my SO is a CDer) attempt at correcting my ignorance. I think you are right in that he is trying to be honest, but being a little cautious as well. I told him that if he had told me about being a CDer on our first date I would have probably ran for the hills! I consider myself to be a pretty accepting person but CDing was a completely foreign thing for me. And we often do fear what we do not understand. I am glad he gave me the chance to get to know him a couple of months before he broached the subject. By waiting just a bit before telling me (and yes, it was only a small portion of what would eventually come out) he gave me the chance to get to know a pretty awesome guy and become a little more educated and accepting of a portion of our society that is misunderstood.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply!


ReineD,

You are absolutely right. I did think about having to "compete" with a girl with more parts than me. It made me question if I am enough for my SO. I am trying to get past that fear. I told him how I felt and he assured me that I was absolutely all he could handle. ;) I think you addressed a really significant point that many GG's may not feel comfortable discussing. Thanks!

:) Penny

[PaulaQ]

@Penny M - you didn't offend me at all. The "S" word is the first word many hear to describe a transgender woman, and there is an entire sub-genre of pornography that uses that term for marketing purposes. You really didn't have any way to know better.

I was more annoyed at the folks here who, ahem, do know better and didn't correct you.

I'm glad that you are giving him a chance. That's all any of us in any relationship can really ask. And I certainly appreciate your willingness to learn about what is going on with your SO. I applaud you for that, in fact. So many women learn enough to give us even a chance. My wife was one such, and I miss our relationship.

I wish you both the best!

Paula

PS after you have 10 posts, please feel free to PM me if there is anything I can do to help you.

[Trishpdxcd2]

Hmmm...this is an interesting thread and thanks for the input Paula and Reine. I find the advice to dump him strange but maybe black and white works for some people and that is how they lead their lives. Myself, sexuality is much more complex and gray. I am always stunned how sexuality seems to define us in peoples eyes. Most people are much more than their sexual preference and yet are branded by that preference. I don't want to generalize, but many men are poly in their sexual inclinations and I believe that is hard wired. It does sound as if he is bi but does that mean you can't still have a good relationship...does it? My advice is to assure him he can be honest with you but also you should be honest with him and with yourself. I can't give advice on sexual monogamy as I am not sure I really believe it as possible. Can you have sex with more than one person but truly love just that one person? Yes, I think it is possible but maybe not for you. You have to communicate what your boundries are and share them and hopefully he can do the same.

[Elizabeth36]

My initial response to knowing this about my boyfriend was a festering anger. I ended the relationship and he agreed. I then worked on getting myself to detach emotionally. Four weeks later he asked to come back and apologized. As he is quite an unemotional person his actions speak volumes. I am now trying to objectively understand his actions and he is trying to communicate more. Personality plays a big part in this too. If he wants to live as a woman and the chat quells the feeling what can he use to substitute for that as he feels society will never accept him if he comes out? How does one gauge if he is serious or only playing?

[PaulaQ]

My initial response to knowing this about my boyfriend was a festering anger. I ended the relationship and he agreed.

I can appreciate that. An online relationship / cybersex feels just like cheating - the feelings of betrayal are very, very real. I can attest to this. Some people view it as nothing more than masturbation - but I don't really believe that myself. I know finding your SO involved in this can really hurt, and I'm sorry you experienced that hon.


As he is quite an unemotional person his actions speak volumes. I am now trying to objectively understand his actions and he is trying to communicate more.

He may be more emotional than you suspect, hon. It's impossible to numb one emotion without numbing them all, and it is almost a certainty that he's been suppressing this feminine side of himself for a long, long time. That comes at a price.


If he wants to live as a woman and the chat quells the feeling what can he use to substitute for that as he feels society will never accept him if he comes out? How does one gauge if he is serious or only playing?

Hon, if he needs to feel submissive in the relationship in order to be aroused sexually, there's really only a few options:
1. Find something you can do together that satisfies this for him, at least sometimes. (He needs to make sure YOU are satisfied too though!) Example: seducing him and taking the lead in bed.
2. If that aspect of his sexuality is something you can't fulfill, and you can't find a compromise, you can allow him to have, with your knowledge, relationships that satisfy that. Most of us aren't able to do this, to be quite honest with you.
3. If the two of you aren't compatible sexually, then you just aren't, and it may mean the relationship just isn't going to ever work really well for the two of you. I hope that's not the case.

If your spouse ultimately needs to gender transition in order to be a whole person, there isn't one thing you nor anyone nor anything can do to stop this. And he's quite right - society will never accept him as a trans woman. I can attest to that. At least not society today, and likely not within our lifetimes. That said - he probably won't transition, most of the people on this forum will NEVER transition. Some will though.

The best explanation I can give you for his behavior is that the feminine part of him wants to have a woman's role in bed, at least how he perceives a woman's role. It's probably more complicated that that, really. In the heteronormative world - i.e. straightsville, where you and he live, sexually, men are on top, women are on the bottom, right? Well, not really - but everyone views it that way. In point of fact though, some people, regardless of sex, tend to be the initiators of sex, and some the recipients. (Tops and bottoms, respectively.) He may really just naturally be a bottom - kind of a submissive guy sexually. A LOT of CDs tend to be submissive. He may really need this sometimes.

BTW, I'm NOT suggesting you have to become "the top" in the relationship, at least not all the time, and it's possible that you are NEVER comfortable in that role, and that's OK too. It may simply be the case that this is an incompatibility between the two of you. How you deal with it you both have to figure out. Maybe it's a deal killer, maybe it isn't.

I wish you the best, hon.

[Jenniferathome]

.... If he wants to live as a woman and the chat quells the feeling what can he use to substitute for that as he feels society's will never accept him if he comes out? How does one gauge if he is serious or only playing?

Elizabeth, you can only know if he tells you the truth. Do you believe he is being truthful? I am a cross dresser, I go out. I've never had a problem. This video chat activity may be a substitute for something, but it is not about cross dressing. Chat does not substitute going out. Chat is not just a fantasy there is a truth underlying it.

The bottom line is trust. If you can not trust him to tell the truth, you can not trust him, period.

[Rachaelb64]

Hands up those who have never lied about their crossdressing?

We have all lied at some point to ourselves to those close to us about our 'dirty little secret'

That said, 1st you need to know is he being faithful to you? Do you trust him when he says he is being faithful? If the answer is No then there is only one course of action. If the answer is Yes (or even a unsure), then its time for the big sit down cards on the table where do we go from here talk.

The past doesn't matter, what done is done. The Present and the Future is what matters now. It doesn't matter whether he has given a bj to man in the past, the question is he still doing now? Look at it like this, if your Bf slept with another woman in the past would you mind? If he is still doing it (sleeping around) while he is in a relationship with you, that would be a very major issue. It's the same principle.

As for his sexual 'issues' that's for him to sort out, people can give advice, but first he needs to be honest with himself, and from what you've posted he's not. Maybe he needs to talk to a third party about these 'issues'.

If he is being honest and faithful, then try and be supportive, helpful and a friend for him.
If he is lying tosspot and playing both sides of the field then kick the toe-rag out.

[ReineD]

If he wants to live as a woman and the chat quells the feeling what can he use to substitute for that as he feels society will never accept him if he comes out? How does one gauge if he is serious or only playing?

You have lots of questions in these few lines!

1. If he wants to live as a woman, he is either in an intensely euphoric (and perhaps sexual) fantasy that we call the "Pink Fog" (see this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?211063-Will-you-explain-to-me-your-version-of-quot-pink-fog-quot)), or he is transsexual. And only time can tell if he is. The trouble is that sometimes CDers in Pink Fogs do think they might be TS ... or if they don't define it as TS, they say they want to be a woman. This is different than knowing they are women and needing to make their bodies congruent with their gender identity.

2. As Jennifer suggests, cybersex is not a solution or substitution to either crossdressing or transsexualism. So this alone, plus the way that you've described your bf suggests that it might be fetish for him as opposed to transsexualism or gender non-conformity (feeling bi-gendered or gender fluid and needing to express this).

3. If he really does want to live as a woman in the sense that he is TS, there's a lot to say about this but I'll try to do so in a nutshell. He will need to develop a tough skin and get over the fact that some segments of society will potentially treat him as an outcast, at least during the transition phase which can last years. He will effectively need to make a choice: be true to himself. Or not. And if he is TS, eventually it will cease being all about sex. If he then starts hormone therapy (which will remove his male sexual functioning), there is a chance that he will eventually reach a point of passing as a woman and lead a reasonably happy life, although the road to this point is long, arduous, and expensive. He will need to get rid of his facial hair (electrolysis which can cost up to $20,000 (http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/hair/zapidx.html)) and he may or may not need Facial Feminization Surgery and/or breast implants. Having Sexual Reassignment Surgery is another question altogether. Different camps of TSs debate whether this is necessary or not. And you do need to know that quite of few of our transitioned TSs have changed their sexual preferences to men after hormones and transition.

4. How can you gauge if he is just wants to play or not? You can't, not at this point in time. He might consider seeing a gender specialist. Or he'll need to take it as far as he wants to and then he'll know - some crossdressers have had sex with men and discovered that the reality didn't match the fantasy. Unfortunately this is often done at the expense of their relationships. Other CDers for whom it is sexual are quite happy being single and indulging in their fantasies with men. We've had quite a few threads about this.


But Elizabeth, I think that you need to decide what YOU need in this relationship and then honor this. Are you satisfied with a partner who wants to go outside of your relationship for sex, whether it is cyber with an eventual risk of face-to-face? Or if he chooses to stop the cybersex and put his sexual energy into you (if he can do this), are you satisfied with having non-traditional sex and will this live up to the test of time? And do you love him enough to stick by him while he figures all this out?

You and your bf have a lot to talk about and I wish you both all the best while you do this.

[PaulaQ]

@Elizbeth36 - let's assume he doesn't want to transition. BTW, the feelings that lead one to transition are almost entirely negative ones, not positive ones. Unfortunately, they develop over time, and can be progressive, episodic, and varying in intensity. Most crossdressers do not transition to living life as women. Does it happen? Yes. At a first order approximation, if he's not a completely miserable human being, or his life isn't a train-wreck, or both, he's probably not a transsexual. Or at least he isn't close to transitioning.

[Marcelle]

Hi there,

If I read your post your BF is talking about his past experiences? Does this pre-date your relationship with him or was it during? I get the impression this was past (post relationship activity).

Everyone has their own opinion on fidelity (and if this activity pre-dates your relations it is not a fidelity issue) and truthfulness but I don't think that is what you were asking and it appears the thread has gone down that rabbit hole as these often do.

My advice would be to sit him down and have a frank discussion on where he sees your relationship going. While he may have experimented with men in the past it does not necessarily mean he is bisexual but he may have been sexually curious as the context of his male relationships is not evident in your post (was it when he was young, distant past, recent). I would explore his current feelings about men with him . . . sometimes being frank is the best way forward. Does he still find guys attractive? Can he see himself engaging in relations with other men? If he answers yes to these questions or you feel he is not being open and honest then it is likely he is bisexual and just not prepared to admit it you or perhaps himself. In addition I recommend you discuss how you feel he is just with you because you support his CDing and physical needs. Sometimes people can get so wrapped up in themselves that they don't notice how their behaviors affect those around them. He may not (or may) know he comes off that way. The surest way to clear that up would be discuss it.

The other side of this relationship is "you". Specifically what do you want to get out the relationship? If you discover he is bisexual, is that a deal breaker for you? If it is, then your decision is quite clear . . . move on. If his being bisexual is not an issue and you feel he is attracted to you and he is meeting your needs both emotionally and physically (relationships are a two-way street so it should not be all about him) then I say move forward with the relationship but I would keep the communication lines open when it comes to this aspect of your relationship.

Hugs

Isha

[Elizabeth36]

Thank you everyone for your cogent, well thought out responses. I apologise for highjacking this thread. Paula, I think you are onto something when you speak of him repressing his emotions. His life is far from a train wreck. He is highly successful and highly educated but his career is high stress. It's as though he has compartmentalised the girl so much that she is only allowed out when he wants to let off steam. Objectively speaking it almost seems like he dissociates at times within the course of a conversation switching back and forth between the two voices. This is new since he asked to come back into my life. Does this sound plausible?

[docrobbysherry]

Anything is "plausible", when it comes to CDs and TSs. Because we r all over the board. Much like your SO may be at times. The thing is, he MAY be being completely honest with u and either be lying to himself, or simply hasn't gotten to where he's going to yet. He may end up being trans. Or, as I suspect, bi. I'm suspicious because he's attracted to men online. But, as he says, it MAY just be role playing and in real life men's parts may not turn him on.

I think u must face the fact that sex with him is never going to be, monogamous/normal. If you're NOT up for that, he's not for u!

[MissTee]

After many, many years I realize there are so many variations to the gender universe I can't keep up with them. Likewise, I'm not good at doling out advice, only support. So, that's what I'll do: I wish you the best and hope it works out as you would like it to. Hugs.

[PaulaQ]

Paula, I think you are onto something when you speak of him repressing his emotions. ... It's as though he has compartmentalised the girl so much that she is only allowed out when he wants to let off steam. Objectively speaking it almost seems like he dissociates at times within the course of a conversation switching back and forth between the two voices.

I repressed my emotions for years. I had to do this - I was a woman imprisoned in a man's body / life. Even those of us who are "just a crossdresser", as the saying around here goes, have to repress these feelings to some extent and keep this part of themselves hidden in order to survive.

The problem is that you can't just suppress one emotion - you clamp down on one, you clamp 'em all down to some extent. There's no doubt in my mind that this is what you've experienced with him in the past.

As for expressing femininity when he wants to let off steam, I think this is precisely what is happening. My own pet (unscientific) theory is that virtually all of the CDs on this forum experience the same type of gender dysphoria that I and other transsexuals experience - but just to a SUBSTANTIALLY lower severity. (Generally low enough that they have male identities, and will never need to transition - but do need SOME amount of cross gender expression in order to alleviate their GD.) My own experience tells me that GD exerts a certain amount of stress. We all have a tipping point, and when there are other external stressors, it's easy to reach a point where the GD simply has to be dealt with.

I doubt he really dissociates, in the clinical sense - as that involves separate identities with unique memories. There certainly can be two sides of his personality, masculine side and a feminine side. It's often not clear, even to us, which is the real identity, and which is a kind of a mask. In my case, my identity is largely female. My male personality was a really good act, designed to keep me alive.

The unfortunate thing is that for many of us, it's only clear in retrospect whether or not we will ever transition. If you'd told me two years ago that I'd be living full time as a woman in Dallas, I'd have told you that you were INSANE. Yet here I am.

It is a good sign, in my opinion, that he's not an emotional wreck. Some of us transition without completely falling apart, but that doesn't seem to me to be as common. It's much more common to see someone simply start coming unglued and unable to function well in life in some respects.

If you'd like to discuss this in more detail and with some privacy - I'd be happy to tell you my story, for example - feel free to send me a private message once you have more than 10 posts.

Paula

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Paula, I had to comment on this as I'd never thought of it this way before when you talk of gender dysphoria, but the reality is, as a GG and non gender dysphoric person, I've never actually 'felt' my gender. That makes no sense, I'm sure, but that's really what I mean. I've never, ever felt a conflict or found myself uncomfortable or even vaguely questioned my gender. I've also never felt female (I seriously don't know what this means) yet that's what I am, and I've never questioned this or really cared. I just am, and weirdly enough, I can spot this similarity in others. (I know a female from a male, in other words, like yourself being female) Yet everyone here has varying degrees of discomfort with their gender and considering the issues the OP is facing, and the things you and others have written, it's no wonder we have these relationship issues. We will never get it! I now realise the rest of us just don't 'feel' our gender the way everyone here does, and that's because we're gender aligned, I guess.

Wow, revelation. Too many in one week...I need a drink! :)

To the OP and Elizabeth, look after yourselves first, okay? I'm finally learning to do this, and on the way I hope also to preserve my own marriage to a crossdresser. But if the marriage fails, we still have to live with ourselves so it's best we like what we see and appreciate who we are, just as our partners should do the same.

Message me anytime. I'm learning, too x

[Zylia]

Sexuality is not a matter of opinion, I don't pretend to know your boyfriend and I don't have any stake in the outcome, so the only thing I can offer is a little insight. No-one here can (or should) tell you whether or not your boyfriend is attracted to men and you should take should take advice with many grains of salt here.

Cross-dressers involved in sexual acts with (other) men aren't necessarily gay or bi, i.e. sexually and/or romantically attracted to men. The best way I can explain it is by putting it quite bluntly: just because a man masturbates, doesn't mean he's sexually attracted to his own hand. Many cross-dressing individuals get sexually aroused by the idea of being 'the woman' in a sexual act and some decide to act out that fantasy. I don't know whether or not that's the case with your boyfriend, but it's something that has confused many SOs and even cross-dressers.

[Ezekiel]

Cross-dressers involved in sexual acts with (other) men aren't necessarily gay or bi, i.e. sexually and/or romantically attracted to men. The best way I can explain it is by putting it quite bluntly: just because a man masturbates, doesn't mean he's sexually attracted to his own hand. Many cross-dressing individuals get sexually aroused by the idea of being 'the woman' in a sexual act and some decide to act out that fantasy. I don't know whether or not that's the case with your boyfriend, but it's something that has confused many SOs and even cross-dressers.

Well this is for sure more complex than it seems, but atleast to me, if you act upon the idea of being with a man, you are a man (doesnt matter if crossdressed or not), even if you are not attracted to them, the fact of liking what you imply here, being the "woman" in a sexual act with a man, well... its not exactly straight as an arrow. Maybe straight with a little bit of bisexual tendencies?

[Taylor Ray]

This is an interesting thread but it seems to have become overly complex. As someone else has stated, we have fallen down the rabbit hole!

I'll give my simple and to-the-point opinion for you to take with a grain of salt:

Either he is experimenting (which many of us do) with his sexuality. Are you okay with being in a relationship with someone who is experimenting with their sexuality?

or.....

He enjoys bisexual encounters while crossdressing (which few of us do, and I am one of them). Are you okay being in a relationship with someone whose active sex life includes bisexual encounters while crossdressing?

[Zylia]

Well this is for sure more complex than it seems, but atleast to me, if you act upon the idea of being with a man, you are a man (doesnt matter if crossdressed or not), even if you are not attracted to them, the fact of liking what you imply here, being the "woman" in a sexual act with a man, well... its not exactly straight as an arrow. Maybe straight with a little bit of bisexual tendencies?

For me, 'bisexual' implies androphilia, i.e. sexual or romantic attraction to men or masculinity. Many cross-dressers aren't attracted to men, but attracted to the idea of being a woman being with a man, autogynephilic for lack of a better term that's not 'invented' by Ray Blanchard. They're typically not interested in 'normal' gay sex or romance without cross-dressing elements.

'Straight' is not really a helpful term in this context. Does it only exclude homosexuality or also paraphilias and other forms of sexual 'deviance'?

[Ezekiel]

'Straight' is not really a helpful term in this context. Does it only exclude homosexuality or also paraphilias and other forms of sexual 'deviance'?

In my humble understanding, straight means attraction and sexual action with the other gender. So yes it excludes homosexuality and paraphilias related to having sex with those of your same gender.

As I said, it may be complex, but the sexual action being in play there will be without a doubt, homosexual (as in same gender sexual intercourse, not to offend bisexuals here). Even if it is not your authenthic attraction, its seems to me that it implies a little bit of bisexual curiosity.

[Katey888]

Let's stick with answering the OP and subsidiary OP made earlier please - if it starts looking anymore like the inside of a burrow, I'll be administering the Blue Pill... :eek: (that's the Matrix-type... :))
Thank You
Katey
Moderator

[Zylia]

I try to offer the OP some insight on how her boyfriend can insist on not being gay while having engaged in homosexual activities. I believe that's part of her request if I read her post correctly.


In my humble understanding, straight means attraction and sexual action with the other gender. So yes it excludes homosexuality and paraphilias related to having sex with those of your same gender.

As I said, it may be complex, but the sexual action being in play there will be without a doubt, homosexual (as in same gender sexual intercourse, not to offend bisexuals here). Even if it is not your authenthic attraction, its seems to me that it implies a little bit of bisexual curiosity.
Yes, the sexual action in play is homosexual, whether or not any genuine attraction is involved is entirely up to the individual. If the SO's boyfriend claims he is not sexually or romantically attracted to men in a normal context I'm willing to believe him. All the more power to him if he actually is bisexual and is willing to explain how that doesn't mean he can't love his girlfriend, but based on the information provided I cannot (and will not) make that call.