Katie is busting out all over

[Pretty Nails]

Hello all,

As you know I have recently been stepping out into the world. Small baby steps and being mindful that while I want to have some exposure I am also being discreet for my family and their needs. Everyone does not need to know.

My wife has known of my dressing for about 3 years. I hid it from her for many years with all of the close calls and suspicious activity that many of you may be familiar with. She often thought I was having an affair. Now she knows that I have been outside and let the sun shine on my face and the breeze blow up my dress and she could not be more unhappy.

I explained what I had done and I accepted full responsibility for my actions. I told her that there has indeed been another woman. That woman is Katie and she is me. I finally saw the "punched in the gut look" on her face that some others have described as they came out. I also told her I had sought the help of a transgender familiar therapist. I came out to her previously as I thought it would releive the stress and anxiety of being in the closet and it did. But just prancing around the house in my pretty clothes was not what I needed. I need the social contact and quite honestly I need the sun on me - Katie does not like to be trapped in the dark. Too many years in the closet. I thought my wife had been tolerant of my dressing but after our very loud discussion of this it became apparent to me that she had always found it disgusting and perverted.

Two days later I got several text messages telling me that I was a homosexual, faggot, queer, sissy, etc. etc. I counted the messages and there were 39 - one right after the other. She had also texted that she was certain I was paying my therapist for sex - why else would I have chosen a female. For the record: I feel more comfortable with females than males, she actually returned my call, and she is on our insurance plan.

We don't speak now except for needed communiucation about daily activities and we "play nice" as she described it. The children don't know of Katie and they don't know about this rift.

I am taking it slow and trying to re-enage her ina dialogue but she has rebuffed me so far. I'll keep at it because I really do care for her.

Strangely, I am upset at the damage I have done by not just telling her who I was before we married but I also feel a sense of calm freedom. Katie is out and she will not go back into the closet. I am not strong enough to keep her down anymore - I sat on her for not less than 25 to 30 years. Katie makes me whole and that is good for all of us because the crabby, disgruntled daddy is much calmer when Katie is allowed to come out and play sometimes.

My wife seems to think that this was just a hobby or a sex thing. She has not accepted the idea that Katie and I are one in the same and her man is still here as well.

Sorry to ramble but I feel better when I let this stuff out plus I know that some of you are very smart and may have some good advice that I can use.

Take care.

[Tracii G]

All you can do now is deal with the problems as they come along.
Sorry she feels that way about you.

[Annaliese]

I like the part when you said you were not strong enough to keep Katie down anymore. That is the way I feel, tired of hiding.

[Nichole_31]

I commend you for doing what I can't seem to bring myself to do. Hang in there and I hope things work out for you and your wife.

[cdyoung114]

Wow! I am so sorry for the pain your having to go through.I'm afraid the same thing will happen to me if I were to tell my wife

[DanielleInMI]

I'm sorry Kate, that has to be hard. I don't understand why some people need to lash out so creully. Things will eventually turn around for you.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Katie, You just never know how it will go when you tell them.

[Katey888]

Katie, I do feel for you as I have felt for many others - and I think you speak for many of us when you speak about needing the sun on you.. :) And many other aspects as well.

That to me resonates loudly of the need to just let this femme side of us out - to have an outlet but not to mean that it changes the core of who we are and, importantly, who we have been over time. And to my mind, accepting what TG means - embracing male and female aspects of personality - is incredibly difficult to do - but I think that is what needs to happen for your wife to fully understand, even though that may not lead to acceptance.

I'm afraid I don't have any advice beyond what has already been given - be patient, keep talking - Keep Calm & Carry On!

:hugs: Katey x

[Teresa]

Hi Katie so much of what you say rings true, the name calling is just lashing out but it doesn't stop it hurting. My last talk with my wife went well but I don't know how far along the road I am between tolerance and acceptance, my wife knows it's sexual and not a hobby, I can't accept that, hobbies don't cause pain, hurt and guilt ! Teresa won't be going back into hiding I need her to balance my life.

[Beverley Sims]

Katie,

The text messages are just venting, I hope.

Time can be a great healer, but it can take a lot of it.

I do wish you well for the future.

[Tora]

Telling before you get married.. yup there it is again. I got married in 1972, a little before this activity became a topic which could be accessed for sound information. I even though that a wife would be the cure, I needed. Good luck and give it time, our GG's rarely hope to see this coming.

[Shari]

Your wife was very cruel and that's a shame.
Considering that and now "playing nice" as you describe, it looks like this one is going down in flames.
Seems to me you had better prepare yourself for selecting your dressing or your family. It will all come up again and probably be uglier than before.
Good luck to you.

[Princess Grandpa]

Sometimes I wish there were some magic words I could say that would help. Of course there never is. *hug*. I hope she comes around for you. Ii have read numerous stories of wives who at first were taken aback but later began to accept. I too like "I am not strong enough to keep her down anymore" I really hope this becomes a happy ending for you!

Hug
Rita

[stepanie]

This is the sort of thing that keeps most of us in the closet. I believe that most people are of the mindset that our desire to wear women's style's of clothing, to what ever degree we choose, aren't real. That these desires are just some perverted thing we dreamed up. When quite possibly at some point in our lives we consciously or subconsciously decided that wearing these styles of clothes relieved some sort of stress in our lives as many of us have admitted to. I think that a lot of us would agree that this part of us is as real a desire as chocolate seems to be for a lot of women. Think about it how many times have you heard a woman say "I need some chocolate" when they're stressed out. I like chocolate but not as something I use to calm my nerves.
So is dressing in clothes we like our "chocolate"? Just a thought. Anyway, I hope things work out for you and as others here have said, go slowly.

[Pretty Nails]

Your wife was very cruel and that's a shame.
Considering that and now "playing nice" as you describe, it looks like this one is going down in flames.
Seems to me you had better prepare yourself for selecting your dressing or your family. It will all come up again and probably be uglier than before.
Good luck to you.

Perhaps you are correct. I brought up Katie again in an effort to explain that this is not some perverted sex thing but a real and legitimate part of me. I did say that I wanted to go out some but with absolute discretion and due care. It was explained to me again that I am just a faggot and that I should be ashamed of myself. I pressed on with some actual inforamtion about my feelings and how Katie is part of who I am but the man she married still resides here as well. Now we are just giving each other hard looks and taking care of the kids and day to day activities. Even if I were to give up on my transgender parts of me, which I am not sure that I could, I don'y know if there is any marriage left to save. I'll try to be patient but I think that Katie has to be able to breathe - if she dies a large part of me dies with her. What is better for a GG - a careful and considerate trans person that loves and cares for you or a shell of a man who just takes care of the business of the home and family but nothing else. The answer is clear to me. I never thought this would be this hard and drama filled.

[Gardener]

Your wife is clearly angry and may also harbour many other powerfully destructive emotions such as a sense of being betrayed. Would we be surprised? There are accounts of partners readily accepting seismic shocks but in my experience that is less common than the angry response. How it will pan out is anyone's guess. I think your calm response is all you can do but do not get sucked into lack of communication within the relationship, that is you being angry as well. You needed time to come to the point when you could say something, your partner is surely going to need time too to assimilate what you have told her

[Felicia Dee]

Gosh, that's rough- I'm so sorry... what if she went with you to counseling? Having a pro to mediate might be helpful...

*hugs*

[Marcelle]

Hi Katie,

While I know that your strife with your wife is probably heart wrenching, I do believe you have to see it from her perspective as well. She just found our something you have known about for 30 years and it is a bit of an adjustment. When we come out to our SOs, it is only going to go one of two ways "no problem dear, I understand, let's move forward" or "WTF, not happening, don't believe it". In your case you wife is probably very confused, hurt and this is translating itself into anger, frustration and the likes. The good news is, from you post I don't get the impression she is ready to throw you out. This in of itself seems to indicate she may be taking time to process and wrap her head around this.

I would give her space but let her know you are there and ready to answer questions when she is. It may be you might move into a DADT relationship or she may come to accept. I think time is needed to allow her to process. I get what you mean when you say you are not putting Katie back in the closet but then again, make sure you do work toward some compromise if you can. If you can't and she cannot accept your decision, then you may have to re-evaluate your relationship.

Hugs

Isha

[lpjamey]

I feel your pain! About 7 years ago my wife found my stash of bras, panties and thigh highs. She went ballistic on my ass. I was able to convince her that I wasn't gay but "experimenting" with female clothing. I have been trying to work my way into being more fem but she keeps avoiding me.

[LICutie]

wow, hope this gets better for you and the SO.

and btw i think you have made some very deep insights as have the other posters.

who knows, it may be that we all have a complementary opposite version of ourself within ourselves; it's just that some are more in touch with it where others either deal with it subconsciously or thwart it as much as possible keeping it down.

personally, i kinda feel like you do; in that to kill off one's feminine person is tantamount to killing one self or at least a good deal of oneself.

now a question may be worth answering is: in a relationship between a GG and a GM that one comes out to the other as a CD, TG, and or gay/lesbian is it still just 2 people... or is there now a 3rd person?

i mean obviously it's only 2 people physically but emotionally & mentally it's seems now like a 3rd person... and if this is the case, what are the dynamics and logistics of keeping the relationship intact and and maintaining it?

then if you throw in the fact that a couple has children, it further complicates things and even if it doesn't complicate, there are different long term goals in a married with children relationship than a married with no kids one.

last but not least if everything we do is predetermined, the risk/reward skewed, and/or the consequences of our action dire, then how can we stop ourself from dressing, going out dressed, feeding the fire so to speak?

how can we stop ourself not backing down, telling our SO... and anyone else we feel like?

conversely one could ask why stop ourself from dressing, going out dressed, etc...

[ReineD]

She often thought I was having an affair. ...

I explained what I had done and I accepted full responsibility for my actions. I told her that there has indeed been another woman. That woman is Katie and she is me.

OK, two things here. If you don't want your wife to think this is sexual for you, then you need to somehow undo having told her that there was another woman, and this woman is Katie. Usually, having an affair with "another woman" is sexual. I see why your wife thinks the way she does.

Also, you need to stop referring to yourself in femme mode as a third person. This does make it seem as if it is something outside of you, therefore an option. It's better to say, "my feminine self" or something equivalent to this.



I came out to her previously as I thought it would releive the stress and anxiety of being in the closet and it did. But just prancing around the house in my pretty clothes was not what I needed.

This is unfortunate. It's good that you did come out to her, but you did so for all the wrong reasons. Coming out to relieve your stress and anxiety is a pretty selfish thing to do, given that your wife had the 'punched in the gut' reaction. It would have been better to have come out to her because you couldn't bear being dishonest with your wife. Had this been your motive (or if you can somehow make this your motive), then I think you might develop more charitable feelings toward your wife.

The prancing around the house situation: There are very few wives who can go from not knowing to being supportive of going out full-on dressed as a woman, especially if it is done behind her back. One, it's like going from A to Z and skipping all the steps in between, and two, going behind her back perpetuates the habit of lying or rather non-disclosure. It's hard for a wife to regain her trust when things keep happening behind her back.

I feel for you not having an accepting wife at this point, but I can also understand your wife's negativity given the way that you handled it. I do not agree with her texting you with all those insults, however. But maybe she lost her temper royally because she really did think that your feelings toward your feminine self are the same as your male self would feel toward a woman with whom you were having an affair?

When I found out my ex had an affair, I kicked the wall in with my heel. Thank God I hit it between the studs. You've heard of the adage, "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"? Well, it's true.

Maybe some of the members here who have supportive wives, can give you pointers on how you can fix the way that you did come out to her. I can't help but think that you need to alter your attitude about it. Sorry if this seems harsh.

What does your therapist suggest?

[LICutie]

Thank you for your perspective, Reine; it's great to hear a GG's take on this.

And it's funny because while i feel similar to Katie, what you are saying makes sense, too.

i feel like maybe i am mistaken in my thoughts and feelings?

as for "the other woman being us", while it may be metaphorically true, from a biological standpoint it's an impossibility (physically, that is... unless it's a split personality but that is mental).

and re: the "affair" thing being sexual, is sexual attraction to one's feminine self genuine and authentic?

i would say yes, but that's just me and that's my opinion*...

a thing to remember may be that while we can certainly communicate with each other be us CD's, GG's and all the in-betweens and extremes, to completely be in each others shoes is not possible.

*i'd be curious to see what members feel about autogynephlia(sp?) i will have to search the boards...

[ReineD]

and re: the "affair" thing being sexual, is sexual attraction to one's feminine self genuine and authentic?

i would say yes, but that's just me and that's my opinion*...

I do think a sexual attraction to the self is authentic for those who swing that way. But, many members say it is no longer sexual for them so AGP doesn't apply, although I've no idea how to frame it if it is only sexual sometimes and not others.

My point was that few wives are OK with their husbands getting off on dressing. Because then it's not a stretch to believe that the dressing is more sexually exciting than are the wives.

[PaulaQ]

*i'd be curious to see what members feel about autogynephlia(sp?) i will have to search the boards...

It's a load of codswallop that attempts to "solve" one issue we don't understand (transsexuality) by identifying it as another issue we don't understand (fetishism). It completely ignores the existence of FtM trans*. It doesn't line up well with life experiences of a huge number of MtF trans* either. It's a terrible theory, and that's being nice about it - it's bad science.

I think some people here like it because:
1. It gives some sense of "why" (if you hadn't pleasured yourself while wearing those panties, you wouldn't be a girl now)
2. It lets some people misinterpret it's findings to suggest that straight MtF's shouldn't transition, that the "real" transsexuals are androphilic. (This isn't at all what the theory concludes - in fact it suggests that gynephilic MtF's actually transition better in many ways.)

It's also yet another great club to use to bludgeon people with regarding their sexual feelings. I don't know about you - but I'm tired of old cis-guys telling us we're perverts.

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi Katie

In many ways our situation corresponds. It's a rough road and I can only say that I feel for you. Some days my wife let's go a bit and even compliments my latest photos, or asks what I've been up to with genuine interest, and not too much judgement. She reserves the right to pull this back all the way though and revert to being totally non accepting, as she has just done again. From your side just try be as accommodating as you can, be honest and I find being "nice" helps to cut the conflict as well. I concur with the sentiments of Isha from our perspective as well as those from Reine i.t.o. a GG's. My wife puts an absolute premium on honesty and, though I know this, I still manage to screw it up like I did again last week. Most of our biggest fights are not about what I did but about not being truthful about it. It's tough being an (unwanted) girl sometimes but hopefully time, and a bit of patience, will sort this out for both of us.

My thoughts are with you.

[LICutie]

Thanks, PaulaQ, i appreciate you taking the time to reply, and also your take on it; it makes sense the way you say it; I hope that this thread is still helpful to OP (Katie), and others, too, as it is for me.

For me, i am more in a neutral place on it as there definitely is a sexual attraction and affair with myself going on or maybe it is is within myself (which i could be wrong on but i believe Katie may have expressed similar feelings)?

i am learning to love and forgive myself and i guess part of that self-love is sexual and... eek, possibly perverse (not to me... but maybe it could be to others?).

i am reconciling that the sacred and profane may go hand in hand and sometimes they are interchangeable and that they could certainly be subjective and relative depending on who and how things are happening.

the other half is that maybe someone (me included) could be both trans and fetish?

last but not least, while i am familiar with the term "a bit of a red herring", i had never heard of "a load of codswallop" until now.

Hugs,
Lil

[LICutie]

wow that's a sweet and heartfelt post, Jenny.

i tend to believe that life is a rough road no matter how and where we find ourselves; that said maybe makes it easier?

i know the saying goes "honesty is the best policy" but what about "some things are better not said"?

i mean (i guess as long as i'm on cliches and sayings) i know "it takes two to tango" so as long as both parties are "in it to win it" there is always some chance it will sort out?

optimistic hugs,
Lil

[ReineD]

i am learning to love and forgive myself and i guess part of that self-love is sexual and... eek, possibly perverse (not to me... but maybe it could be to others?).


There is no harm if it is sexual for you. The idea that fetishes are perverse are going by the way of the dinosaur. Most of the advice you see now from sex therapists is to enjoy. What was once considered a perverted fetish can now be thought of simply as an alternate and valid sexual attraction. It only becomes problematic if it has a negative impact on other aspects of life such as an ability to focus on work, or if impacts a sexual relationship (with a partner who is not into it), or if it causes someone to isolate (forego other activities in order to stay at home alone to indulge).

As to the terminology (AGP), you need to know it is controversial. TSs understandably hate the term because it was used initially as a way to describe a fetish motive for the transition of female-attracted TSs, and they only see the term in that sense. So they say it is hogwash for everyone. But if you separate the term from any need to transition, you will find there are lots of CDs (or however they identify themselves) who do relate to the concept of self (auto) as a woman (gyne) love (philia).

[lpjamey]

I know exactly how you feel and I will post my feelings soon. Thank you katie

[PaulaQ]

It's all well and good to discount the direct experiences of transsexuals who's real life experience runs counter to that predicted by Blanchard's AGP theory. I mean, we're just ashamed and political and stuff, I guess.

Still, scientific studies of the theory, such as they are, haven't shown it holding up especially well as a model for transsexuality.

I think the notion that CDs experience a more mild form of the same gender dysphoria that transsexuals experience is probably a lot closer to the truth, or at least a better description.

BTW, I'm not opposed to the notion that CDs and TSs may be totally separate entities. That's certainly possible. But if so, any time I ask for explanations of the following observations, all I get is much arm-waving, little science:
1. CDing would appear to be a symptom of transsexuality - it appears in young children even who are unquestionably transsexual.
2. Why is it that some CDs are in fact transsexuals, and ultimately transition? How do we differentiate between the two? (Hint: You normally can't until transition.)

[LICutie]

There is no harm if it is sexual for you. The idea that fetishes are perverse are going by the way of the dinosaur. Most of the advice you see now from sex therapists is to enjoy. What was once considered a perverted fetish can now be thought of simply as an alternate and valid sexual attraction. It only becomes problematic if it has a negative impact on other aspects of life such as an ability to focus on work, or if impacts a sexual relationship (with a partner who is not into it), or if it causes someone to isolate (forego other activities in order to stay at home alone to indulge).

As to the terminology (AGP), you need to know it is controversial. TSs understandably hate the term because it was used initially as a way to describe a fetish motive for the transition of female-attracted TSs, and they only see the term in that sense. So they say it is hogwash for everyone. But if you separate the term from any need to transition, you will find there are lots of CDs (or however they identify themselves) who do relate to the concept of self (auto) as a woman (gyne) love (philia).

Wow, thanks Reine for the reply, you are very wise in your words.

I could be wrong but maybe Katie's (and others in similar relationships) need to bust out all over happens when it all comes to a head, like a dam building up that finally breaks! Sometimes time makes certain parts of life more bearable but it could also make it unbearable, too.

As for the AGP, i love how you simplified it because it has always seem complicated to me that it never made sense...

Hugs,
Lil

[LICutie]

It's all well and good to discount the direct experiences of transsexuals who's real life experience runs counter to that predicted by Blanchard's AGP theory. I mean, we're just ashamed and political and stuff, I guess.

Still, scientific studies of the theory, such as they are, haven't shown it holding up especially well as a model for transsexuality.

I think the notion that CDs experience a more mild form of the same gender dysphoria that transsexuals experience is probably a lot closer to the truth, or at least a better description.

BTW, I'm not opposed to the notion that CDs and TSs may be totally separate entities. That's certainly possible. But if so, any time I ask for explanations of the following observations, all I get is much arm-waving, little science:
1. CDing would appear to be a symptom of transsexuality - it appears in young children even who are unquestionably transsexual.
2. Why is it that some CDs are in fact transsexuals, and ultimately transition? How do we differentiate between the two? (Hint: You normally can't until transition.)

Wow PaulaQ, you bring up some very intriguing and insightful points. I appreciate that and whether people agree with you all the way or not, what you are saying is definitely worth reading, imo!

Perhaps, in our lives, it may seem like it comes down to choices but i believe that maybe there is more to it than just that alone. Almost like a current, or a tide, this invisible push/pull that is always present?

Hugs,
Lil