Might be a rant?

[I Am Paula]

When I began transition I promised my wife I would present as a male to her father (who we see very rarely) for as long as possible.
The last symptom of my dyphoria that remains is presenting male. It makes me nauseous, anxious, and I cry uncontrollably. Oh yeah, I get the runs.
We're going to visit him tonight. I'm already shaking.
I'm very close to refusing to A) go at all B) present male.
If I wear a tight sports bra, and a hoodie, I can cover my chest. I can put my hair behind my ears etc. but what if I throw up on him?
Anyway, I hear my wife up and around now. I have a few minutes to make a descision. I have a very strange feeling that our tenuous hold on this marriage is going to be tested at any minute.
If you hear something like a sonic boom in a few minutes coming from Canada way, it's my marriage exploding.
I don't think I can present male. Just can't.

[Keri L]

Dear Paula,

Sorry to hear about your distress. Is there any way you could present androgynously and underdress? Or, bring along something more femme for the ride there and back?

Perhaps, some clear mascara and light foundation could also help?
Good luck.

Best,
Caitlyn

[Angela Campbell]

You have to do what is Good for you. You cannot put off forever what is you. It may be hard, but running away to please others is making you sick. Today or next time....it isn't going to go away.

the last time I did that it was so traumatic emotionally I cried for hours when it was over. I knew I promised to do it so I did, but I made it known I will never do so again. I have not and never will.

[I Am Paula]

Thanks all. That's why I titled this a rant.
I already know the answers. Making myself sick for the sake of a person I don't like, to save a marriage that is essentially doomed anyway. Pretty stupid. Even if this doesn't end our marriage, the worst that will happen is that he banishes ME, and there will be one less at their Xmas table.

Caitlyn. Thanks. Presentation has little to do with it. It's all about identity. If I present male, it's all in girls clothes anyway, I don't own anything else.

[gonegirl]

Paula - Are you full time? From everything that you've spoken about over the past several months it sounds like you are. Perhaps you should ask yourself what is more important - your identity, or your marriage?

[Angela Campbell]

Sometimes we have to make hard choices, and either way is not good.

[I Am Paula]

Simone. I've been full time for over two years. For the sake of my failing marriage, I've presented male for FIL. His mind is firmly set in 10th century feudal Ireland. It is ridiculous to have ONE person on this earth for which I would present such a terrible false identity for. That is the problem. I only see this guy twice a year or so.

[gonegirl]

Paula - Follow your heart.

More thoughts - I know how hard this is, and I sympathize that you want to keep your marriage alive, but this is more than about your marriage, it's about who you are.

There's something else - this is going to sound judgmental and I apologize for being the one to say it - presenting as a male on occasion is not full time.

[I Am Paula]

Reprieve!!!! Wife cancelled FIL trip.
Running away from problems is so much easier than meeting them head on!!

[Badtranny]

Good Lord Paula, really? You can't dress like a dude for a day or two?

Listen T-girls, we seriously need to get a grip on this hysteria that so many seem to be reporting. It's stuff like this that makes people think we're crazy. How can a guy go through 40 years and then suddenly start getting physically sick at the thought of wearing men's clothes? Look I know how liberating coming out is and I also know how wonderful it is to not have to pretend anymore but I've been full time for quite awhile now, and if I had to put on a suit and use my old name to handle some kind of old business, I would just do it. What's the big deal?

You made an obligation, and the choices in your life so far have brought you to this very place. Deal with it and stop being such a drama queen.

By the way, I'm NOT attacking you or trying to be mean. I don't even know if you're a real person but if you were my friend, this is exactly what I would tell you.

[Rianna Humble]

Melissa, you come back with this kind of comment very often and it is not helpful.

Just because you might be able to handle passing as a male when you want does not invalidate the very real distress that Paula has been going through. She is not the only one to have experienced this kind of physical revulsion. When I spoke about it to a psychiatrist, she found the link to be perfectly understandable and even explained to me why the revulsion was sometimes less pronounced than at others.

[I Am Paula]

- this is going to sound judgmental and I apologize for being the one to say it - presenting as a male on occasion is not full time.

If a male dresses as a clown twice a year, he is still a full time man.
I am a full time woman, who through a set of ridiculous circumstances, must masquerade as a man twice a year. It is just a woman in a costume.

Melissa- I finally saw a therapist when it got to the point that getting dressed as a male every morning made me sick. GD is different for everybody. There were times before that I could get dressed as a man and I was ok with it.

[DreamRin]

OOh this must have been so emotionally stressing for you, Paula! Good thing your wife cancelled it.

You probably already did this but, i think it'd do you good to sit and talk to your wife about what you felt regarding this trip, maybe she'll understand your mental implications of presenting as a male. For me its like putting on an old and stinky mask of false feelings and false memories for the sake of someone else! Unfortunately that is something i have to do every day just to avoid confrontation and ridicule.
Hugs, Rin~

[I Am Paula]

I've often said that I prefer the company of cis people. The girls here always jump in with 'But transfolk are your support and advice'. I even posted lately about enjoying the company of other trans people.

The purpose of today's post was predominantly a rant. You've all posted one. A rant is to yell and scream, and is usually about something you already know the answer, or solution to. Rants get things off our chests. I posted a rant, with the expectation of a few responses like 'You need a hug', or 'It's not so bad' or other non committal rhetoric.

Aside from some heartfelt responses, I was told to 'man up'. I was accused of not being a true woman, and even an insinuation that I was not 'real'.

Support like that we can all live without. My cis friends idea of really letting me have it are telling me I over-accessorized, or I tip too much.

Thanks. (a little sarcasm there)

To those still wondering, the answers I knew before posting where:
Finally decide the marriage was over.
Show up at father in law's house dressed like Carmen Miranda.
Tell my wife I was never going to his house again, and let the chips fall where they may.

[kimdl93]

Hi Paula, I didn't have any advice, but I remain curious which of the options you finally went with.

[Nigella]

Unfortunately Paula, many of us respond to what we read because we cannot read the person and their emotional state.

Full time is not a case of wearing clothing/presenting as female 100% of the time, for some it cannot be, as you have highlighted, We all have our own perspective of what full time is. I was wearing female clothing for 100% of the time way before I made any other changes to my life and that included name change or any "medical intervention". In some that would not be full time, I was still, in the eyes of some male, but to me I was 100% female, just had not completed my journey.

At some point you will have to face this demon head on, if the thought of presenting male is making you physically sick, just think what it is doing to your mind.

The decision you make will have a lasting impact, but I believe that the first thing you must do is decide on the state of your marriage, if it over and there is no chance of reprieve, then the solution is simple, be you 100% of the time, the FIL will no longer be a part of your life.

We all have tough decisions to take when we start this journey to being who we are, not who people expect us to be. If this one thing is your brick wall, either climb it or break through it, either way, you need to be on the other side.

[PretzelGirl]

To those still wondering, the answers I knew before posting where:
Finally decide the marriage was over.
Show up at father in law's house dressed like Carmen Miranda.
Tell my wife I was never going to his house again, and let the chips fall where they may.

Paula, I have always said that venting is one of the healthiest things to do. Don't ever stop as it is good for your well being. But when you post here, you will get advice. It is the nature of the beast that a support board is.

While I am glad for you that you didn't have to make this decision this time, I do wonder if you really want to push the problem aside and wait for the next time. If you are or were in therapy, is there the chance of talking with your therapist about this? I am just concerned that if it is this unhealthy for you when the event occurs, how unhealthy is it for you as it eats at you in-between visits?

[I Am Paula]

I got very mixed reactions from my rant Saturday about having to appear male one more time for my father in laws sake. I felt like bowing to him compromised my own principles and identity, and refusing him would surely end my marriage (which is one foot in the grave, and the other on a banana peel)

I had a long talk with my wife today. Maybe the longest I've had since beginning transition. My wife has decided to side with me, and is going to talk to him tomorrow. She will tell him about my transsexuality, and a bit about transition, if he doesn't throw her out of the house first. He will INSIST she leave me forthwith. She will refuse.

We can both see only three scenarios:
He banishes both of us. Disowns her.
He banishes me, and their holiday table becomes that much smaller.
He reluctantly agrees to accept me. (this is called the snowballs chance in hell scenario)

I've often written that coming out is easier than it first appears, and has always been the case with me. This last hurdle is my toughest. This guy's mind is stuck on the farm, hates gays, but doesn't really understand what gay is, so calls anything out of the ordinary 'gay' and thinks it should be put to death. He is the classic bigot, and already calls me homo to my face, for my bleached hair. He has never heard of anything that happens outside a few minutes drive from the farm.

There's gonna be fallout. The severity of which we have yet to see, but I have drawn my line in the sand. Living my life as I should trumps this Bozo's desire to see me as male. I feel like I have accomplished something today, even if it's a rough new chapter in my wife's relationship with her father. When you go in prepared to lose everything, this ones a victory.

[Lori Kurtz]

The most important thing is that you and your wife are together on this. I don't necessarily see your appearing male one more time for your father in law's sake as a compromise of your principles and identity. I think you could look upon it rather as a kindness, in recognition of his limitations. I don't think, in the long run, that anyone ever completely regrets choosing to be kind, even if the recipient of the kindness doesn't really deserve it. But if your wife is certain that she can stay with you at the cost of her relationship with her father, I would completely respect your decision. How fortunate you are that her love for you leads her to that stance.

[Angela Campbell]

Knowing what it is like is one thing, explaing it another. There are some, even here that have not experienced this.

You knew this had to come eventually.

only my best hopes for you.

[kimdl93]

Paula, I'm glad your wife has decided to join you in presenting a united front to her father's bigotry. From what I understand, this is one miserable, disagreeable human being. He is probably used to people giving in to his obnoxious, abusive behavior. Let him choose his own fate. I vote for the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man!

[LeaP]

I got very mixed reactions from my rant Saturday about having to appear male one more time for my father in laws sake.

Surely you expected this. The topic comes up regularly. In a public forum there are always going to be those to whom such a thing a minor concession, a humanitarian act ... or, at the other side of the opinion scale, an act that equates transition with pretense, something that can be picked up or discarded at will.

On the other hand, this isn't a situation where you are dealing with someone like an elderly parent who doesn't know or is near death. You are dealing with a jerk. So why were you ever considering pandering to him at all?

[Dianne S]

You owe your wife a lot. She's standing up for principle against her own father, which is not an easy thing to do.

You may be surprised. It could be that when a bigot is confronted by his own daughter, he may re-evaluate his attitudes. I certainly hope it works that way for you and your wife.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Everyone that transitions (you included) knows that there are ups and downs, big ones.
Decisions, roadblocks, money issues, surprises, health issues.... on and on... you handle each as best you can!!!
Well done for thinking this through to what you hope will be the best outcome possible...what else can you do?? the next step will be to deal with and learn from whatever happens or doesn't happen.

And your wife is a trooper.

[DebbieL]

We often create "worst case scenarios" in our minds and the most favorable outcome is "a snowballs chance in hell".
When we have the courage to deal with reality, we are often surprised.

My wife and I had the same issue last October. I had grown out my hair and was wearing a v-neck shirt, which was making my new breasts a bit obvious. My wife gave me her hoodie and told me I had to wear it. I told her that if Debbie was not welcome in her father's house, I would make alternate arrangements for Thanksgiving - maybe going to a shelter or an 12 step fellowship event. No anger, bitterness, or hate, just a desire to make it possible for her to be comfortable with her family.

A few days later, she talked to her dad and said "Rex is afraid that Debbie won't be welcome at your house", to which he responded "She's not". After a short talk, he agreed to let Debbie come to his house once before Thanksgiving and then at Thanksgiving, and he would decide from there. Short version of the story - the entire family LOVED DEBBIE, and couldn't wait to see me again at Christmas. At Christmas, ALL of the presents were for Debbie, including blouses, jewelry, scarves, and a other girl things. It was WONDERFUL! When my wife's sister leaned over to me and said "I hope it's OK, we didn't get Rex anything" - I said "That's wonderful" as I burst into tears of joy.

At church, it was almost the same. We had decided that Debbie would start coming to church after the Christmas Rush. Lee had told a few friends, and for a few weeks before, as I complemented other women on their outfits, they would say things like "And you will look beautiful in your dress", or "so when are you going to wear your pretty outfits". When I finally came to church as Debbie, I sang in the choir, so I was wearing my robe, but there were people waiting around to meet Debbie after I took the robe off. They loved the outfit, the wardrobe, and the hair (combination of wig and my natural hair). A few elderly gentlemen have asked my why I did this, and I explain it as "I've been a girl all my life, but I finally got the courage after 50 years to look and act like one". I show them the finger thing, pointing out that I could no more act like a typical man than I could make my ring finger longer than my Index finger - because my brain is more like a woman's than a man's. It only takes about 3 minutes to explain, and they end up smiling and saying "Wow, I had never even thought of it that way, but I'm so glad we talked!".

Ironically, when I tried to keep Debbie a secret, all the worst case scenarios played out anyway. But when I was authentic as Debbie, the universe moved differently. People came out of the woodwork to meet me and befriend me, I found a job where I could transition, and I found lovers and even a wife who loved Debbie at least as much as Rex (More actually). Most people like Debbie better. I don't have to divert energy, attention, and effort to maintaining the facade of Rex. As a result, I can listen better, be more empathetic, and be more expressive. Things that Rex did that seemed "Wimpy, too nice, or passive" seem natural to people relating to Debbie.

[Kate T]

I have to say there are a great many things about this thread I do not understand. Not being TS that is to be expected and I have purposefully held my tongue despite in many respects echoing what BadTranny said. I don't quite get the physically ill thing BUT I also don't expect to. I wonder if perhaps the reason you felt physically ill was not so much having to wear male clothes but the inevitable confrontation that will ensue as irrespective of what you wear you are now female and your FIL will likely confront you over this.

The other thing I don't understand is what your relationship therefore is with your wife. In the middle of this thread you posted that even before your OP you had decided your marriage was over. Yet by the end of the thread your wife has agreed to "side with you" and confront her father on your behalf. I reiterate Kaitlyns statement with emphasis. Your wife is more than a trooper, right now she is your whole army. I hope that you appreciate this and perhaps use this opportunity to perhaps rebuild some of your relationship with her and that you are not using her as some sort of pawn in a game with her father not of her choosing.

Despite my harsh words I do wish you well in resolving this. Perhaps you may be surprised, daughters can be very persuasive with their fathers. At the very least it would seem that this episode has enabled you and your wife to have some good communication about your transition.

Good Luck

[PaulaQ]

I have to say there are a great many things about this thread I do not understand. Not being TS that is to be expected and I have purposefully held my tongue despite in many respects echoing what BadTranny said. I don't quite get the physically ill thing BUT I also don't expect to.

The last time I presented as a male was the day before Thanksgiving, last year. I went to sign some legal paperwork with my wife, and she couldn't bear to see me present as female.

I was massively dysphoric during all of this, and came really close to going to a bar to deal with it. Bear in mind I'm and alcoholic, and have been sober for 24 years. In 24 years, this was the closest I've come to relapsing.

If you don't understand how someone could feel this type of dysphoria, then all I can say is that you are lucky, because it is REALLY bad for some of us.

I'll take a bullet before I present as male again. I can completely understand Paula's dilemma.

Also, why shouldn't a woman be allowed to dress as a woman for an event she attends? Oh - that's right - we're trans women and not entitled to have the same feelings as others might have.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Adina feeling sick about maleness (body parts, male bonding, dressing as male) is a common symptom of extreme gender dysphoria.

Transsexuals are used to disbelief about this. It's part of the problem we face being accepted

To be honest, I have never felt this feeling, so I can relate to the idea that its outside of someone's experience... But too many times for us, there is a judgment involved where people think we are making it up or being overly dramatic when instead they should just believe it and let the person try to manage those feelings as best they can.

[I Am Paula]

Thanks girls. I feel such a sense of relief. This is going to end with more of a bang than a fizzle, but who knows right now.

PaulaQ, and Kaitlyn. Exactly. Physical symptoms of GD or not uncommon.

DebbieL. What a nice story. For the most part it echoes mine. Most of my family likes Paula better, as she is not withdrawn. And my family of women much prefer Xmas shopping for Paula.

Adina. The relationship with my wife has more ups and downs that a San Francisco street. Since the beginning of my transition I have offered my wife the out. Just say the word, and we split the assets, and I'm gone. This arrangement seems fine, but has little sense of permanence. I feel like I've got to keep a bag packed. If this doesn't give a forboding sense that it's over, nothing will. Two years of uncertainty. Yesterday she, for the first time, said that we are staying together. Not as a 'let's try this one more time', but she says she has come to terms with my transition, and while still not loving the idea, she will live with it. This is the only thing that has pointed to my marriage not being over. I happy, cause in a very unique way, we work together. If I have stated, as contradictory as it sounds, 'it's over...no it's not' it's because that is how it has felt.

PaulaQ. A councilor in alcohol rehab asked me 19 years ago, if I had ever tried to figure out the cause of my drinking. I spilled my guts about all my gender issues. His response saved my life, very literally. He said 'becoming a girl will not kill me, alcohol will'. It still took many years to become that girl, but I did it sober.

In every post, I expect mixed reactions, as they are, of course, opinions. If I got upset at some of the comments, that too was just a reaction to other peoples opinions not matching my own. I love you girls.

[PaulaQ]

@Paula - I got asked the same thing 24 years ago, and simply could not be honest. :( I was too terrified of what I was that I couldn't deal with my gender. What a horrible mistake!

It says a lot about you that you had the courage to speak up.

[JohnH]

PaulaQ. A councilor in alcohol rehab asked me 19 years ago, if I had ever tried to figure out the cause of my drinking. I spilled my guts about all my gender issues. His response saved my life, very literally. He said 'becoming a girl will not kill me, alcohol will'. It still took many years to become that girl, but I did it sober.

I can say in my case going on HRT has really helped me to cut down on my drinking. I used to drink heavily each night and I was ruining my health. I am able to drink moderately now. I also used to be suicidally depressed, but now I want to live and to grow as a person. If I remain in good health I would like to live to be 100 years of age.

My wife tells me she greatly prefers me to be on HRT. And we are very close to each other, like peas in a pod. I have not seen my parents for a long time and it might be a shock for them to see me feminized. I'm to the point where I can wear an olive drab T shirt with a pocket [obviously a man's garment], jeans, and casual suede shoes with no makeup, and still get ma'amed. In other words, I look a lot like a genetic woman wearing men's clothes when I wear men's clothes.

Johanna

[Nicole Erin]

Man if someone cannot accept who we have become, it is best to not associate with them.
Just cause some narrow-minded bigot does not approve of a transgender doesn't mean we should make an effort to "present male" for them.
Hell with that crap. The narrow-minded people need to adjust. How old are we again?

[JohnH]

Here's the weird thing about my situation -

I get along a lot better with others than before I started on HRT! I do have new acquaintance after going on the HRT since I moved. I still live as a man, however womanly I have become.

My mixed mode presentation has really worked out well. In my everyday life I still go by the name of "John". As I have pointed out before I do get ma'amed quit a lot.

I may not even try to live as a woman - I just take each day at a time. All I can say is that testosterone monkey is off my back and that in itself really is beneficial.

Johanna (John)