Easier to leave than to attempt to learn?

[Sarahgurl371]

This question is for all, but I would really like to here from the GGs and thier thoughts on this subject.

My wife of nearly 15 years, left tonight. She said she needs some time to figure things out. Those who are familiar with my posts know that we have been dealing with this for over 2 years now. She knew of my wearing her lingerie 7 or 8 years ago, and was fine with that sometimes while we were intimate. ( I really tried not to over indulge) But a little over 2 years ago, I came out with the whole gender identity thing. While I have come to realize that I don't think I want to transition, I just want to be accepted for who I am, at least in my home with the person whom I love most, and am supossed to be able to share myself with.

I would just like to be able to dress once and a while, ( I cannot quantify this), and maybe every so often be able to be intimate while dressed. I know that I can never be a real women, despite how much I feel that way, although, I will admit this has increased in intensity and duration. (I think the intensity thing may have to do with her lack of acceptance, and my need for making peace, so I have decreased my time tremendously.) But specifically during intamacy, I have always thought of myself as the woman. It just is. She has stated that I repulse and disgust her when she sees me that way, and that she feels as thought she is with a woman, and she is not a lesbian. So consequently, sex is non existant for months now. I just feel that I would be lying to myself and her if I said I will not feel like I always do, that is femenine, while intimate.

Its not about the clothes. The argument that she wears pants, or my shirts, does not hold water anymore for me. I just feel the way I feel inside. I feel that I would be selling myself short, not being true to me, if I said I wouldn't think that way anymore, even if I don't dress, I still feel the same. At the same time, I would be being dishonest with her. I will not go back to that way of living again. It caused too much hurt and mistrust. I cannot bear the thought of hurting her, or myself anymore. I know that I made mistakes in not telling her. I own that. I have learned and am trying to move on. I have to at least be honest with myself from here on.

I have tried everything I can think of to help her thru this. I have read several books from the wife's perspective. I have read with interest the posts from the GG's here in the CD forums. I have tried to explain myself time and time again, for over 2 years. I have compromised upon compromises that we have made. She will not believe me. I have tried to ensure that her sense of self esteem is uninjured, although i am sure it has been. I wish that weren't so. Its not about her, I do not feel this way because of her, or her short commings in some way. I have been this way since I was 6 or 7. Just know that I really care for her feelings, and wish I could take it all back. I just can't.

All i am asking for is that she attempt to understand me. To just read a book, come on here and talk to the GGs to gain thier perspective. I am not trying to fill her head with propaganda to my benefit. I just want some acknowledgment that I exist here in my home. For her to just think about us and communicate her thoughts back to me. In 2 years her position has not changed, excpet maybe to regress. I have dressed in front of her. She has applied makeup for me, vary rare, but it happened. She said that she is trying in her own way. When I ask, she cannot list any speciffic thing that she is working on. I feel as though I am the only one who is concerned enough to think about how to fix us. The only thing she says is that she is ignoring my behavior, or clothing that I own. I haven't dressed in front of her since who knows when. I just don't think ignoring me is acceptable to me.

So my question - to those who have dealt with this issue with thier SO - Was it ever easier to just leave than to attempt to understand this very complicated and unique lifestyle? I am really trying to gain some insight into her thoughts, I just don't think she is affording me that luxury.

Sitting here tonight, I cannot help but think just how rediculous this all is, that facts are unchanged however. There is something that is so very appealing to me about presenting myself physically as a woman. Not to mention how I feel emotionally. I mean my marraige is probably gonna end because I like to wear a dress. For all those who say I choose this, why the heck would I? I love riding motorycycles, I love playing guitar, I smoke, I would give up any one of those things for this to work out, if they were the issue. How can one give up part of thier personality?

I apologise for this long post. Just feeling a bit bewildered and maybe could use a little support right now. She has her Mom. I have you all.

[DonnaT]

I'm so sorry to hear that Tammy.

If one has not been sexually active and the CDing is the reason, then that is a big problem for a lot of wives. So there are then at least two issues at work against the marriage, lack of intimacy and the CDing. The CDing alone is hard enough, but when it interferes with the sex, the issue is compounded.

Have y'all been to a marriage councelor?

[Tamara Croft]

Hiya Tammy

I think I know exactly how your wife is feeling right now, because I've been there myself just almost two years ago now. Although the breakup between my Tam and I wasn't directly due to her being a crossdresser, I do find myself wondering if it did actually have something to do with it. When Tam and I split up almost 2 years ago, it was heart breaking, I thought my whole life would end at that moment and I had no one to talk to, no forum, no friends, I don't think my mum cared that much either. But at the same time, I felt a sense of relief, a relief that a side of Tam I didn't much care for back then was no longer in my face, driving me up the wall because back then I didn't understand what Tam was.

I had already joined this forum when Tam and I was together and a few months after we had split up, I decided to start doing my own research to try and understand who I had been living with. This forum was overwhelming, I had no idea that crossdressing/transgenderism was so huge. For me personally, the only way I started to understand and finally start accepting Tam was when I became active in this forum. I started making CD/TG/GG friends. I started to interact with them, ask questions, get other GG's input into how they live with a transgendered person. And WOW!!! how my life changed, how everything seemed to just fall into place.

Tam and I got back together a few months after we had split up and it took her a while to get it into her head that I had completely accepted and started to understand her. I think she still wonders....!! I used to think that joining a forum and reading up on it all was enough, but I now know that interacting with those that have lived this life for a long time has to be the best way of learning. We have a GG forum here that she would be most welcome to join, but that is entirely up to her and I'm not sure how you could get her involved. Tam dragged me here kicking and screaming, I didn't want to join, I didn't want anything to do with it. Seeing all the pictures and posts literally scared me to death. I've written to a few of the members wives here, I'd gladly do the same for you. I'm so sorry you are going through this right now and I do hope everything works out for you. :hugs:

[TGMarla]

Tammy, it seems that when ever you post something new, I marvel at just how remarkably similar our thought patterns are. It's like reading something out of my own head. I want little more, perhaps even less, than you do from my wife, and I have no idea how to make it happen. Yet despite the fact that my wife now knows all about my crossdressing, it remains a subject that lives only in the background, unspoken, and unresolved. Yet despite this, and in full light of the fact that I have disclosed all to her, we have grown closer over the past two months. And that feels good. Like most with stories like ours, I have no desire to hurt her or cause her pain. I love her. I just wish that I had her acceptance.

I am sorry that she has left you. Is there any chance that you will reconcile? Where there's life, there's hope, they say. And if you are at all the person in your everyday life that you project to us here on this forum, in this house, then your wife is leaving a very good person for reasons that amount to little more than you are not perfect in her eyes. And that sucks. Maybe it is easier for her to just leave, but for myself, despite the fact that our life together has not been easy, and my crossdressing being only a very small part of that, I have never found that leaving is an easy thing to do. The difficulty I find in leaving, be it comfort or love or a combination of the two, is the biggest reason I am still with her.

You are in my thoughts, sis. Let me know if you just need to talk.

[Sarahgurl371]

Thanks Donna T, Tamara and Marla

I guess let me clarify a point about physical intimacy. For me having to dress for sex has never been an issue. Sure I certainlly have enjoyed it from time to time. But it is not a requirement for me to be able to perform. It is just a plus. Maybe a little more icing on the cake so to speak.

Its more that I feel emotionally like a female ( or at least what I liken to how a female must feel) while being intimate or romantic. And having her tell me how my "feminine side" disgusts her, I feel that it would be wrong to continue to have relations because no matter what I may or may not be wearing, I feel the way I do. And I somehow feel like I would be being used. I know that sounds bad, but its the same principal as me just using her for her body without an emtional connection.

Tamara, thanks for the support that you have given to those of us who come here for some. I think its great, and inspiring that maybe one day she might feel a little like you do. I still have hope. I usually wake each day thinking that today might be the day we work it all out. But its just that lately I feel like hope is lost by the time I lay my head down at night. In November I was gonna leave, But she asked me to stay so we could work on it. Again thank you for the offer of contacting her - I just don't think she would like it very much, me sharing this much with all of you. I get that - you always want to go on that computer. Again she just doesn't understand, Lately I have been screaming out for a little support. This place seems to be it.

Marla, I think we agreed to a time apart. But, I just kinda feel that the writing is on the wall. I just think the actual leaving was the hard part, and now that its done.....

Its a funny thing about perfect, If she had something, a disease, a disorder, whatever, I would think I that I would certainlly try to gain insight to it and try to develope some way of dealing with it. After all its a part of who she is right?

[Mitzi]

Tamara..

I was so touched by your post...and so pleased that you and Tammy are back together again. She is one lucky girl...

Mitzi

[Sharon]

I'm so sorry for this to happen to you Tammy. I know you saw this coming -- or at least the likelihood of it -- but it is still a very tough night for you. :hugs:

I have always been amazed at how accepting my wife was of me and my needs, but even we had our difficulties, and they were quite serious difficulties at times. Thank God she saw past the clothing.

You seem to have done just about everything possible to get your wife to, at least, partially understand you and the crossdressing. I'm hoping for you that a separation will allow her to realize how really insignificant your dressing is. It doesn't change your behavior, it doesn't affect your livelihood, and it doesn't telegraph to other people what you are when you are not dressed.

Good luck, Tammy, I wish only the best for you. :)

[GypsyKaren]

Hi Tammy

I am so sorry that you're having these problems, and I wish I had an easy answer, but I don't. My wife has been the total opposite, eager to learn about me and help me too. I do know that if she had expected me to try to change who I am and "be a man", well, that would have been the end of our marriage.

Communication is the key to solving all problems, and it sounds like she stuck her head in the sand, so you're really in a bad place. When I told my wife the truth about me she went out of town for a couple of days to think, when she came back she got some of her clothes out for me to try on. She realized that we have a special love for each other, and that it doesn't matter how I present myself to the world, I'm still that person she fell in love with inside. I hope your wife comes around and feels the same way about you.

GypsyKaren

[Helana]

Tammy

I think a seperation at this time may be best for both of you so that you both have space to consider how to proceed.

I dont think anything you say to her will make her reconsider her cavewoman attitude, any change really needs to come from within, i.e. she wants to keep the marriage going so accepts she needs to compromise. Apart from that, you can only let her know that you still love her and respect any decision she makes. Both of you deserve happiness.

Tammy, lean on your sisters here as much as you want, we will always be here for you through your difficult times.

BTW you should check out an article found by Darlene in the Transgenderist Forum in the thread "Where do you fit in". It will help you understand just why GGs have such a hard time coming to terms with our CDing because they fail to fully understand that our male selves are the artificial creations not our femme selves. It is a realization that many of us dont really comprehend either which makes the subject very confusing and difficult to convey to others.

[Jan W]

Dear Tammy,

All the very best in what the future holds for you both.

Your feelings are there for us to see and I for one feel for you.

Tamara you are a very special person. Your lovely words to Tammy moved me more than you could possibly know. You are a princess among women.

Hope to hear some great news,

love,


Jan

[RenaCD]

Tammy You and Your wife are both in our prayers Today

Very Very Big Huggs Rena

[kathy gg]

Tammy I cannot give you the perspective on why your wife is the way she is, because I was never in that position of discovering crossdressing in the manner she did.....but what I can tell you is that I hope that how ever this does end up, you will find some happiness and peace.

Wanting to be loved and accepted an a whole/complete person seems simple enough, but rarely is it.

I have said this to TGMarla before, some women just never get to a point of aceptance. It just is not in their capability. Wanting to acknowledge or be aware {about this} holds no care or interest to them. Even if leaving is the only other option.

We don't know all of the small details of your daily lives. And please know I am not second guessing your capabilities as a husband...but I have foudn in enough conversations with women {in her position} that usually crossdressing is the straw that broke the camels back. There usually are other underlying issues that she is not talking about but pinning all her reasons to leave on the cd angle as it is an easy target. There usually are other things at play that cause a woman to take that final step out the door. I would wonder if all of it is cd related, but it is easier to shift the blame away from her and onto you since it is something that has grown and developed. Crossdressing therefore might be an easier thing to blame.

Most sincerely

[Stephenie]

Tammy,

How are things this morning? I hope that you are feeling better and are able to see the sun shining for you.

[Anita Mae GG]

Tammy,

Leaving never once crossed my mind. I believe you can work through anything (except cheating) At least that is how I feel. I never once thought of leaving my husband. I love him more than anything. My first reaction, outside of the normal is he gay? does he want to be a woman? etc, was I want to learn more about this. We talked about his experiences, what his limits were, what he wanted to do, how he or if he wanted me involved and I asked him the most important question of all, I asked him "what do you want from me, what can I do to help you?" he said "accept me, don't judge me" That is what I have done. I have read posts, books, articles on this subject.

My thought about your wife and I will be brutally honest with you..is this:

1. She cannot judge you unless she understands you first. To judge someone without the understanding of why or who this person is, is plain unfair.

2. If she left and made no attempts to help you or read things to understand you, well she wasn't emotionally involved enough and you are probably better off. There are planty of GG's like me who accept and love their spouses for WHO THEY ARE! You can find someone too!

3. I feel that if you love someone strong enough you will accept and support them no matter what.I truly believe that. If she wasn't willing to do that then it is her loss.

If you were to tell me 6 years ago that I would be married to a crossdresser I would have laughed at you "yeah right". I am not a prude or close minded person by any means but I would have never thought that in a million years. My husband is the SAME man I married and he loves me very much. What he wears should not impact my love for him and it doesn't.

I will tell you that when he first told me I was scared, I had no idea what this meant and what it meant for me and him as husband and wife. I was definitely not up to date on this lifestyle. I only knew the sterreotypical "transvestite" BUT I read and read and learned a lot. MOST importantly my husband and I talk openly about it.

I think any of you who have wives that know but don't accept and don't talk openly about but hide it to avaoid confrontation...you are all in relationships that are time bombs waiting to go off.

The only way to work through this is understanding and communication! BOTTOM LINE!!

I hope I didn't offend anyone, it was not my intention. I am just telling you my point of view. :)

Hang in there Tammy, I believe EVERYTHING happens for a reason. No matter if it is good or bad.It is for a reason...trust me......

[Ms. Donna]

Hi Tammy,

I'm not good at re-telling things, so I've dug up the following from my sordid past: :rolleyes:

If you're interested, the entire thread is The SO and Comfort level ? (http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.crossdressing/browse_frm/thread/6b8de7017b991fb/caae2616f0fb0641?tvc=1)


I posted this to alt.support.crossdressing Jul 20 1998. At that time, I was right about where you are now:

...

Me:

While I reject the binary gender system as wholely inadaquite, within in it's context, I do not strongly Identifying as either a 'man' or a 'woman'. As such, my need to present as a 'woman' is not overwhelming. What I do need is to be true to myself. This means, given my druthers, a decidedly mixed presentation, leaning a bit more to the 'femme' side. The very masciline presentation I'm required to make on a daily basis can (and often does) create a profound feeling of disassociation for me within society. Having resolved the majority of my own issues, and established a sense of self *of my own*, I find my need of self espression to be one of increasing magnitude.

I feel it to be practically impossible to have an identity and sense of self without expressing it. To date, I feel that I have an insufficient opportunity to express myself to my satisfaction. My presentation at home is more masculine than feminine, but definitely *not* manly. While I do not 'dress' (i.e. dresses, skirts, etc) at home, my dress is pretty much woman's pants/jeans and fairly unisex looking (but usually woman's) tops. Panties all the time, woman's socks and sneakers/shoes round it out.

Now, while this sounds like a lot, realize that I do this making a very masculine presentation for the most part. Here in lies the problem. Being gender as a 'man' by society inscribes upon me a host of assumptions as to my identity, including but not limited to: my sexual preferences, the colors I like, what like to read, watch and listen to as entertainment, etc. Basically, there is an entire identity attached to me simply by being gendered as a 'man'.

I need to be able to be true to myself. This means presenting in a way which conveys my neither/nor status, however ambiguous it may look.

My Wife:

Her need is more 'traditional'. She need a husband and a father for our kids. She needs to be able to be seen in public with me and not get stares and doubletakes from people. In short, she needs a 'man' by her side. It was what she wanted when we got married and there is no reason to think that she has changed her position on this. In fact, she has made it clear to me from the start that she has no interest in being married to a 'woman'. She wants a husband who wants the same things out of life as she does: a life together, raising our kids and basically being a 'normal' family.

The 'comfort' level:

While she was aware of my CDing (lingerie only as far as she knew), she didn't realize how deep this all ran for me. Hell, at the time, *I* didn't realize (read: want to admit to myself) how deep all this ran for me. She has *never* had a problem with the lingerie, as no one else knew about it.

When I did start dressing up at home, she was tolerant of it until I started going out dressed. This she *really* didn't like and it lead to me purging nearly everything. And for almost five years, the most I was able to manage was woman's jeans. I pretty much burried all of my feelings as deep as I could and wished them away. It didn't work.

This past December, it all came up, with a vengance, forcing me to *really* deal with all of this for the first time in my life. The result of this is the realization that CDing is but one part of identity. I am TG/TS, depending on how you tilt your head. This has resulted in a much greater need for self expression, greater than my wife is willing to tolerate.

Her comfort level is with me making a presentation which will not cause her undue embarasment. For me, this is a moving target, as there are days when she is willing to 'tolerate' this more than others. While her threshold tends to vacilate, my need for self expression seems to be constant. To her credit, she has been more tolerant overall and it has helped.

She has made the concession that one night a week out would be OK with her, but this has it's own issues and seems to work less than more. The big issue here is our kids. After a whole day at home with the kids, she looks forward to me comming home. This leads to a certain amount of resentment on her part of my wanting to 'do my thing' and a lot of resentment on my part for being made to feel like crap for wanting to. So far, this has not been what I would call a 'successful' arangement, but we are working on it.

The big point of contention is what out neighbors and family would say were they to find out that I was TG. Personally, I'm ready to let the whole lot of them know. This would once and for all get it out in the open and allow me to live a much more honest life. My wife is afraid that we will be shunned like plague victim's, our kids taunted endlessly, and we'll be disowned by our families.

So, where this leaves us is with me making what I feel are a lot of comprimises for the sake of my wife's comfort. My wife has been making an effort to be more tolerant and to understand this all a bit better. All in all, I feel that we are moving closer and closer together on all of this, but also realize that the chances of her ever accepting all of this to the extent I'd like is slim to none. Fair or not, it comes down to how much I'm willing to comprimise my needs to be true to myself for the sake of remaining as family unit.

None the less, we continue to work at this, the key to working things out being communication. We've done a lot of talking at and past eachother reacently, but are now doing much more talking *to* eachother, working on understanding the issuses we each have.


Then on Jul 22 1998, I posted the following followup:

...

Near the beginning of June, my wife and I were talking and she told me that she had come to a realization. While remaining externally calm, internally I went into a panic (you'd have to be living at my house the past six months to appreciate this fully) as to what her 'realization' was.

What it amounts to is thay my wife realized that my needing to deal with my TG issues: e.g. the newsgroups, new friends, the support group and going out, was *not* a negative reflection on her. It didn't invalidate her as my wife and friend. She felt, for a while it would seem, that my going *outside* of our relationship for support was an indication that she was somehow inadaquite. Basically, she felt threatened and abandoned. This alone does much to explain the position she had heald: it's my problem, she didn't want to have to deal with it.

It took a a fair amount of time for her to reach this conclusion. It came down to her being able to find and example in her life with which to relate a similar set of feelings.

She had a childhood experience (nothing abusive), one to which I can not pretend to relate. The amount of support I can provide to her concerning this is limited. Several years ago, her cousins experienced the same thing. When they got together, she was able to share this with them in a way she could *never* do with me. It was a shared experience to which her and her cousins could relate without having to try and *explain* it all.

She was able to draw the parallel between her experience and mine, realizing that my 'experience' was one which she did not share. Just as inability to really relate to *her* experience wasn't a negative reflection on me, her inability to relate to *my* experience wasn't a negative reflection on her.

In short, what seemed like a threat now made sense. There are still many other issues, but I think this was an important milestone. It has allowed us to discuss things in a much more open way.


I hope that maybe this offers some additional points to ponder and to let you know that you are not alone.


Love and stuff,
Donna

[Aileen]

I'm not married and have no wish to be married, but it seems to me that if my wife said, "Crossdress if you want, I just don't want to see it," that would be enough for me. I don't require that she embrace, just that she allow it. But a wife who walks out on her husband because he would dare crossdress ever is not something I can understand.

[Jasmine Ellis]

Hi Tammy. I do feel for you dear. I do know what your going though right now. I was married with 4 kids, until I told her about my crossdressing. She didn't want to know anythink about it, she didn't want to see any reason for me wearing a dress, nothing at all. But the funny thing for me to hear from her was.......We can be friends, the kids won't know, and she would never tell anyone about me............And she has kept her word on that! I know this don't help you at all hun. But I do wish you all the best in the world dear.xxxxxxxx

[Ashley in Virginia]

I have said it before, and I'll keep saying it over and over. Why should she have to accept this? She married one person, a person who was all the things she was looking for in a man. And to find out her man isn't a typical man after all, has got to be shocking. I think it is fully within her right to leave.

I dont want you to think that I am discounting how you feel. I am terribly sorry you have to go through this. However all of the boo hooing around here about why wont My wife/girlfriend accept that the terms of our marrige has changed has got to stop.

[David R]

Hi I know were you are coming from my wife knew about my cd'ing before we married she was the crossdressers dream she would help me with just about everything,also tell me how good I looked when dressed even though i know i looked like a man in a dress.About 2 years ago I decided that maybe the grass would be greener on the other side,and started doing research on SRS hormones and transitioning.As would be expected things fell apart,I did alot of soul searching and decided that was not what I wanted but a little to late now all we ever do is fight about it.NO crossdressing for about 2 years now and I don't know if there ever will be at the point I told her I wanted to be a woman something inside her snapped and I know that was my fault I cannot blame her for her reaction.I now don't know what will happen to us we fight constantly and even if we were to try the crossdressing again I know it won't have the same appeal it did back then.Nasty things have been said since then from both sides.She keeps asking me what would be acceptable for me and I don't want to say anything because I assume it will be too much for her and not enough for me.I truly think that i destroyed that part of her that was accepting of this in the first place and I don't know if she will ever be able to accept this part of me.then what.She say's she needs time I think that part of her is gone.So in alot of ways I do no what you are going through.Because our situation may end up the same.

[GypsyKaren]

I have said it before, and I'll keep saying it over and over. Why should she have to accept this? She married one person, a person who was all the things she was looking for in a man. And to find out her man isn't a typical man after all, has got to be shocking. I think it is fully within her right to leave.

I dont want you to think that I am discounting how you feel. I am terribly sorry you have to go through this. However all of the boo hooing around here about why wont My wife/girlfriend accept that the terms of our marrige has changed has got to stop.

Just curious, but is wearing boxers with holes in them instead of pink panties one of the things a woman "looks for in a man?" What the bloody hell difference does it make? I always looked for someone to treat me with same love, courtesy, and respect that I give, the choice of underwear never entered the equation.

And exactly how does a piece of clothing change the terms of a marriage? To me, wanting to have a three way with her kid sister would do that, not the fact that you wear Legg's under your jeans. Perhaps I'm overlooking something here, if you could point it out to me I'd appreciate it.

GypsyKaren

[Sarahgurl371]

Thank you all again for your responses.

Well she stopped by the house this afternoon to pick up some stuff she needed. She had a headache, and looked miserable. So I offered to rub her neck. I just hate to see her hurt. I know that she cannot let things go, thats part of her. Anyway, we sat here for a while chatting. Petting the dog and such. After a while it was time for her to go. I think we both started to get a little emotional again. It just made me think, this is unreal. Here are two people who obviously love each other. Who care for each other. But cannot seem to find the way thru this mess. I don't know whats going to happen. It really sucks thinking that we can be only friends.

If I knew I could quit this stuff and never regret that decision. I would obviously do it in a heartbeat.

As far as the Boo-hooing, I will be nice. You are entitled to your opinion. I respect that.

The terms of our marraige haven't changed. I am still the same person internally that I have always been. The difference now is that I am not lying to myself or her about it. Yes I have changed. So has she. Change is inevitable. It is constant. everything that happens in our lives effect us one way or another. So have my views changed - yes. So have hers. I will take the blame for my innapropriate actions regarding all this. I will not however gloss over the fact that this marraige is two people. Her problems are mine. Mine are hers. I take all the blame in my not telling her sooner. (BTW, I did tell her about this stuff when we were engaged, and that I didn't do it anymore. That was the truth. I had no way of knowing then that it would be back.) I will take HALF the blame in how WE have dealt with the issues confronting us.

I am still her husband. I still love, honor and respect her. I still protect her. I still work for the betterment of our lives. I still fix the car, mow the grass, walk thru the shit while holding her above it. Thats my job. I have never made her walk down the street with "Tammy" in all her glory. Haven't even asked for that. Fact is, now I do alot more for her. I listen better. I am more attentive. I help around the house everyday. But, alas, this is my perception. What you will not find in me is a self righteous attitude. I do not expect her to be able to love me. What I expect is the same consideration I give to her, the same respect I have for her feelings in return.

Sorry, starting to get a little pissed. No need in a rant at this point.

Again, thanks for the thoughts and prayers. Even the ones I disagree with. I need to be aware of the other side of the coin.

[Helana]

I have said it before, and I'll keep saying it over and over. Why should she have to accept this? She married one person, a person who was all the things she was looking for in a man. And to find out her man isn't a typical man after all, has got to be shocking. I think it is fully within her right to leave.

I dont want you to think that I am discounting how you feel. I am terribly sorry you have to go through this. However all of the boo hooing around here about why wont My wife/girlfriend accept that the terms of our marrige has changed has got to stop.

Ashley, you make marriage sould like a package deal. You asked for a BMW, it turned out to be a Nissan now you want your money back? Marriage is an emotional connection between two people, not a merchandise transaction.

Also people change and marriages evolve. Husbands and wives are supposed to deal with that and adapt to care for, and provide happiness and comfort to one another - "for better or for worse"

On the other hand your point about a "wish list" I think is probably correct for some people. A woman may indeed just desire a stereotypical man to marry her, provide for her, do the manly things around the house and to be seen in public with her, just as an (older) man would want to show off his young, beautiful bride. Unfortunately some people do miss the point of marriage and think their partners simply exist to complete their stereotypical picture of normal life. These people care more about their social status and living up to ratrace expectations than caring about their partners.

If a wife's objection to a CD husband amounts to nothing more than "A man just does not do these things" then I would have to seriously question where her values lie.

[Tamara Barclay]

I have been where you are now Tammy, and it's not very much fun.
I will include you in my prayers!

[Helana]

Tammy

It is heartbreaking to hear that the two of you still love each other but are unable to get past this immoveable object.

If you are truly as supportive as you describe then I suspect that she will soon realize just how much she is giving up once separated and will seek reconciliation. It is all too easy to take the love and support of your partner for granted. You only understand their real value when you lose it.


I will take HALF the blame in how WE have dealt with the issues confronting us. An excellent observation. A marriage is a partnership, never about Them Vs Us. Many CDs fall into the trap of believing that they are soley to blame when a marriage gets disrupted which I always thought was the wrong way to view it. Your partner is supposed to help and support you, you are entitled to their respect. Their withdrawing support is contrary to the intent of marriage.

[Dana]

Having been married for 12 years, lived with another GG for 6-1/2 years. haiving been divorced and single again for 15 years, and not having been even on a date for the last 8 years, (took a sabaticial frrom the whole scene)
And, having read everything I can get my hands on in regards to women, relationships, marriage, dating, romance, courtship, etc. I have the following to offer for your consideration.

First off, its NOT the crossdressing ~ or just the crossdressing. You could factor out crossdressing completely out of the equation ~ and insert some other pursuit of a "normal" male! Golf! Fishing! Hunting! Sports, Guns, Motorcycles, whatever!

Just about every human being on the planet has some passions/obession. For many women ~ its shopping ~ (insert and fill in the blank_____________)
For men, its (again insert and fill in the blank___________________)

The death throw is when you put someone else or something else before the woman that you're involved with. Most any and all women want to be put up on an emotional pedestial by their choosen man.

Many people see marriage as a 50/50 proposition! Its not! its a 100/100 % propoistion, with each partner putting in 100% of themseleves, 100% of the time, freely. Of course, this will never work, so the other party must allow for party ~ time for their "passions" In short, allowing the other party ~ "their time and space to enjoy their "thing" that they themselves have absolutely and completely no interest in.

This is easier to do, for a a woman, if her boyfriends / or husbands interest fall within the socically acceptable areas, of what men are suppose to be interested in.

Ill-regardless of wheather the husband is a crossdresser or not ~ when we get married ~ we're actually marrying three different people ~ in my honest opinion! We're marrying the person we think we're marrying! We're marrying the person that we're actually marrying! And, we're marrying the person that
comes about as a result of having been married to us!

For a relationship to work, especially so of marriage, can be equated to the four legs of a chair. The first leg is friendship! That's what you've got right now the first of four legs. The second, is a discussion, agreeement, and negotiation about friends, family, children, step-children, parenting, finances, religion, values, morals, ethics, division of labor, ~ the day to day mechanics of being a couple.

The thrid leg is a discussion about goals, objectives, intentions. dreams.

Finally the fourth leg is physical intimacy.

All of the above has happened to me! I went into it, but then once I got into it, MY needs arose, and I was woefully equipped to handle them! In-sufficient knowledge! No one to bounce things off of! No points of cross reference ~ nor mutually shared experiences, feelings, wants, needs, and desires. Add in a good healthy dash of guilt, shame, and wrestling with the Devil NOT to be a crossdresser! Well most of you get the picture.

I've been divorced for 15 years, but yet if anyone of you were to ask me why I'm divorced ~ I really couldn't give you a definitive answer? I was raised primarly by my grandparents, the very same that did not complete the 6th or 7th grade! Their model of what a marriage was ~ and should be was imprinted upon my brain housing group! I actually thought that if I had a good job, with good pay and benefits, with good retirement, provided for my wife and children, didn't beat, run around on my wife, didn't gamble away (I'm not a gambler) nor drink up the rent money~ provided my children with all that the wanted and need ~ that is to say that I was a good provider ~ and otherwise a good and loyal husband ~ that I was doing my part!

This all went down, back in the day ~ before the internet! I was out there ~ bare azz in the wind as they say! Forget Tri-Ess, forget going out dressed! I was a carrer Marine.

But the primary reason my ex divorce me was because I wouldn't change! That's all I ever got out of her~! And, she flat out told me that it wasn't becuase I had a perchance for wearing panties. Her, thing was becuase I was a "workaholic"

My primary definition of being a husband and a father was in "providing" for my wife and children ~ and it was this obession of doing so ~ that was the cause of my divorce.

Got divorced! Meet and "shacked up" with another Southern gal. She was so conservative, so religious ~ there was no way she could accept me as a crossdresser! But she did! To a tolerable extent! She was absolutely the last woman on the planet to get involved with a crossdresser ~ and I told her over and over and over again! And, she STILL kept coming back for more! Begging! Pleading!

Why? Becuase in the course of my study, ~ I had ran across a paperback book ~ just the paperback book ~ cost me $5-6 bucks ~ applied it! Its strong! Its all day strong!

To get what you want ~ give her want she wants! To get what you want ~ give her what she wants, needs, craves as a woman ~ which she can't get from any man!

I'm going to catch some flak on here for all this ~ but I'm telling you ~ this is all day strong! Like I said, I just bought and read the $6 paperback version. And I was like, "JHC!" from the results!

Actual conversations went like, "XXXX I'm a crossdresser~! I DON'T CARE!
I don't give a good damn!"

Why? Becuase I was giving her what she needed and wanted, desired as a woman!

We broke up because, in my inempt ability and confusssion about being TG, I convinced her that I was TS! That, and getting out of military, moving from where she was from, back to where I'm from ~where my children are from ~are at ~ back to my family!

Anyway! Here's the link! http://www.lightyourfire.com/index.cfm

It works, and its VERY, VERY STRONG STUFF! If you'v any doubts about getting involved with someone of the female persuassion ~ DON'T use it! Don't apply it!

[Sarahgurl371]

Hi all, i am back again.

Sat here today reading all kinds of stuff about the "lifestyle". Good and Bad from both perspectives. Still questioning every little aspect of life. Especially why I feel the way I do. Especially if its right or wrong in the eyes of God. I just don't have the self confidence to stick to my guns about who I am as a person. I need someones assurance that I am OK, that I am good with God. Why do I have all the inner termoil? One would say its because what I am doing is just plain wrong. The other would say its because I have yet to accept myself and therefore have no inner peace.

I thought about dressing up today. Now I know that some may find that distasteful. Didn't do it. Just so afraid I will feel all guilty afterwards. She left me and I am still repressing my desires. Mentally my head is where it has been for about 2 years now. I am waiting for an answer from her. I have had all the thoughts about this stuff. I have looked into myself. All I know is I feel this way. It just is. So I guess that all this really hasn't hit yet. I have been figuring she was gonna go for a while now. I hope she is doing some heavy thinking. I hope she is OK. I now I already have. Yet I sit here today yet again contemplating her side of the story. Could she be right?

Anyway, just feeling really Blah, after starting this response. I did want to reply to Dana's post though.

I have given her everything in life that I can. I have spent loads of time, energy, and money obtaining for her what she wants. I have been an attentive husband, and attentive lover, and a friend. I believe that your theory might not work on everyone. I just don't know what else I can give to her. I know what she wants, she wants all this to go away. Well that is something I just don't think I can do. This is like the one thing in my life that I have asked for and not backed down.

I really do not want you all to build an unfavorable impression of her. I now that there are two sides to every story. Maybe three. She is a great person, , maybe just not the right person for me.

I have read other posts that have SO's complaining about, or others who criticise us about, spending so much time thinking about, or fantasizing about, or indulged in CD/TG thoughts or activities. Let me make a counter opinion. Did anyone who would criticise me ever think that the reason my head is so damned invoved in all this is because I have never had the freedom to be who and what I am? Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, if you ever accpeted someone for they are, it would take all the freakin' pressure off? It would take away all the frustration, and anxiety, and the drive would be diminished to act out in a behaviour which most agree is undignified.

Like I said, I spent most of the morning reading from both sides of the arguement.

Thanks again for listening.

[DonnaT]

Tammy, maybe this site will help, more reading with respect to being Tg and God.
http://members.aol.com/gnlnews/mistakes.html

source:

http://members.aol.com/gnlnews/index1.html

[kittypw GG]

Tammy,
I am sorry for your loss. You will need to be supportive and reassuring that you can work something out as far as the crossdressing goes. If she loves you then she really needs to be open to joining a gg group or something. I would also like you to read my posts to the " I don't understand" thread. She may need time to just think about what you mean to her. If she thinks that the grass will be greener on the other side she will soon find out that the available men who are "normal" in her eyes are few and far between. I myself need lots of reassurance from my husband that he still will be my husband. It sounds like you would not ask her to do things that make her uncomfortable which is quite fair and as long as you have a balance between the female and male then things should work out. I have to say that my husband also thought he was a women trapped in a man's body. I freaked out!! But for me, I see our troubles as more than just crossdressing. It is more about lacking a basic foundation of mutual respect and a lack of boundries. Please try not to be angry with her when she expresses her fears, allow her to let go of her anger at you and don't take everything she says personal. Sometimes it takes saying something out loud to really hear what you are thinking before you buy into it as a permanate philosophy. I would be willing to help her through her feelings anytime she is ready. We need to all help eachother. Good luck
Kitty

[SweetHosedFeet]

Yes, it's easier to leave. Sorry, you asked. :(

I know several couples and those who came out to their girlfriend/wife earlier in the relationship (from only a couple of dates to a couple of months) have found a great bond in crossdressing, as in "it's our little secret".

On the other hand, those who came out to their girlfriend/wife after a long time of being together didn't have the "luck" of getting their SO's acceptance.

A crossdresser I know came out to her wife after 15 years of marriage after her mother died (to avoid his wife telling her mom, they were really close to each other) and now, while they're still together, the relationship is just wrong.

It's not about you getting dressed, it's a matter of trust like "ok, you've been hiding this from me for months/years, what else have you been hiding from me? what else I don't know about you?".

While she was "ok" with you dressing only some times while you were intimate, the fact that you increased the intensity and duration of your dressing along with the gender identity thing, was obviously too much for her.

My best advice for those planning on coming out to their SOs would be: if you really want to do it, do it as early in the relationship as possible, on the other hand if you have been in a relationship for a while and it's still a secret... keep it a secret.

Anyway, that's my experience on the subject and while I wish the best outcome for you two (what we want is not always the best for both) I also have seen too many couples on the same situation as to expect a "happy ending" to your story. I'm really sorry.

Yours,
Zara

[Alison Michelle]

Did you ever think that maybe, just maybe, if you ever accpeted someone for they are, it would take all the freakin' pressure off? It would take away all the frustration, and anxiety, and the drive would be diminished to act out in a behaviour which most agree is undignified.


Tammy, yes I have, it does and I feel a lot better about my self. I am lucky and cursed that I do not have a SO right now.

It sucks what you are going through. I feel I must be true to my self or I would just be lying to every one else. This whole life thing is hard, CD/TS/TV is just another fly in the ointment.

Someone once said "If you love something let it go, If it comes back it was always yours, if it doesn't hunt it down and kill it!" Wait I don't think it went exactly like that!:cheeky: Just a little humor to lighten up things, it can get a but gloomy.

I can only hope it turns out the best for you. I feel you are in the right mind about what is going on. You can not change someone, only hope they can meet you some where in-between. Something I have learned the hard way.