Co-worker wearing strings

[Julia Red]

Yep, some guys saw a co-worker of mine wearing strings.

I work on a TI office where most of employees are men. No one knows of my CDing.

There is this new employee who's working with us for less than a month. He surely is a bit "different" from the others. He has some poor fashion choices (on my opinion) and is slightly affeminated. I didn't like him since the day he started, not because of his clothes or his orientation, but because he behaves like a 7 years old hyperactive boy.

Anyway... some co-workers told me today with a "whoa-man-you-have-to-hear-that" face that this same guy was wearing black strings. I tried to make a surprised face (wasn't really surprised) and asked them "and how do you know that?". They answered "we just saw it! He was leaning on his chair and instead of showing just his butt crack, he was showing black strings under his pants!".

I didn't know what to say. I didn't want to be hypocrite and say something like "what a fag!" (that was probably what they were expecting), so instead I remained in silence. As I was thinking about what I should say, some other guy got in the conversation, they started laughing and talking and then went back to their places.

I felt really bad for him, even though I don't like the guy I don't want to see him being discriminated like that. I feel like I should do something about it. But I don't want to get outed in the process, of course.

There's one guy who is "leading" the pack of bullies, I'm thinking about talking some sense into him. I don't hate the guy but I hate his "macho" attitude, and I can tell he really likes me as he always go out of his way to talk to me even though I don't do the same to him.

Next time he comes talk to me about it (I'm sure he will), I will say to him that I don't think it's cool to hate on people like that, whether he is gay, bi, or straight. We shouldn't care about it and should not discriminate him, and that I'm not fine with this kind of thing. Fortunately, I have other colleagues that think the same, and could probably back me up on this, so I will not be the only one.

[KayleeAnn]

I definitely think you should talk to the lead bully. Maybe not going out of your way but if he gives you the opportunity to then yes, tell him off in a way. Even if you don't like the guy who is being bullied, or how ever you feel for him, if he does dress or what ever, no one should ever be picked on. Just my humble opinion

<3

[BillieAnneJean]

If you want to keep your opinions to yourself, just advise them that it is against Federal law to harass a coworker. That the company could be sued. That they would all lose their jobs. Say it with your deepest male voice like this: "Hey dude, ja know dat treating dat guy any different dan you treat teach oder could be taken das dcrimination and dat ist gainst da law?" Maybe they will understand that. But speak VERY slowly.

[GeminaRenee]

Perhaps not in Brazil.

[Julia Red]

I'm sure we have laws against harassment at work in Brazil, but no one spoke a word about this subject to the guy yet, and I don't think they'll be dumb enough to do it. So, they'll just talk and laugh behind his back. I don't know what he could do about it.

Of course it can backfire to them, If any word of this gets to him. Even if I don't get to have any impact on the others, I want to make sure that I will not be included in the group of bullies if something like that ever happen.

But that ocurred just today, so I'll be watching to see how this will go in the future.

[ReineD]

I shudder whenever I read stories like this. They just go to show how people react behind our backs. Doesn't matter if it's strings or full on dressing to people like this, IMO. I bet these guys would never tell the string-guy how they feel to his face, would they.

I also think you should say something. At least you'll sleep better. But honestly I don't think that anything you might say will fundamentally change their opinions. They are too deeply ingrained.

[Kate T]

There is this new employee who's working with us for less than a month. He surely is a bit "different" from the others. He has some poor fashion choices (on my opinion) and is slightly affeminated. I didn't like him since the day he started, not because of his clothes or his orientation, but because he behaves like a 7 years old hyperactive boy.

Remove the plank from your own eye before removing the splinter from anothers.

"He has poor fashion choices and is slightly affeminated (sic)." PLEASE. You are posting on a site of support for cross dressers! That is the pot calling the kettle black in the extreme. So he behaves like a 7 yr old hyperactive boy. Maybe he has an extremely conservative family and his hyperactivity is a way of rebelling. Maybe that family are in denial (and maybe he is) about possibly having a non conventional gender and sexual attraction and he is trying to work it out. Or maybe he gets very little attention at home and thus he seeks attention and approval outside of home. He might have very poor self esteem and be looking for approval from anyone. Whatever the reason who are you to judge? And from "the day he started"!

Yeah, you do need to back him up, because if you don't you are no better than the hypocritical workmates who are bullying him to start with.

[Danielle11]

^ Yes, What Adina said! You cant beggar for your own rights when you leave others to suffer.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Okay, you may find he has issues just like myself in different ways i was bullyed at school ,i'v been around people who are lets just say have hormonal issues or ADHD /ADD disorder or some other detail. and some times it comes out in maybe unexpected ways , so a little understanding could go a long way,

...noeleena...

[Anna H]

I'd tell the guy with the string...(is that a thong?).

If he keeps wearing it and getting noticed...it'll only get
worse??

If he doesn't wear it again, maybe it'll all blow over soon
enough.

[Marcelle]

Hi Julia,

If you think talking to the ring leader will help then do so. However, be cognizant that if he (the ring leader) feels that way and you stick up for the "guy with the strings", he may turn his attention to you. If you are fine with that then I would definitely point out the errors of "ring lead guy" way. At the very least I would tactfully take "guy with strings aside" and let him know. It is quite possible he is an "under dresser" and may not be aware of the strings showing or perhaps he doesn't really care what others think. In either case you at least owe to him to let him know.

Hugs

Isha

[susan jackson]

Men wear strings/thongs as well as women

I think they are called 'posing pouches'

[Julia Red]

Well, I guess then the best thing to do is to talk to both guys, the bully and the new one. I hope that makes me feel better, and I hope he is the type of person who just doesn't care when I say that other people saw what he was wearing.



Remove the plank from your own eye before removing the splinter from anothers.

"He has poor fashion choices and is slightly affeminated (sic)." PLEASE. You are posting on a site of support for cross dressers! That is the pot calling the kettle black in the extreme. So he behaves like a 7 yr old hyperactive boy. Maybe he has an extremely conservative family and his hyperactivity is a way of rebelling. Maybe that family are in denial (and maybe he is) about possibly having a non conventional gender and sexual attraction and he is trying to work it out. Or maybe he gets very little attention at home and thus he seeks attention and approval outside of home. He might have very poor self esteem and be looking for approval from anyone. Whatever the reason who are you to judge? And from "the day he started"!

Yeah, you do need to back him up, because if you don't you are no better than the hypocritical workmates who are bullying him to start with.

Adina, first, I'm sorry if I offended someone. I was just describing him, no prejudice intented. I could as well have said "He has poor fashion choices, is slightly effeminated and is my best friend". Where's the prejudice on that? If I said "I love to be very effeminated when I dress", would I be offending myself? Even if I love to do that? Is "effeminated" a bad word for itself? I think the person who is taking this to the negative side is you, not me. As I said before, this is NOT the reason I didn't like him. Don't mix the two things. As for his fashion choices, I'm guilty, but as I said on another topic, I try hard to police myself on that. Maybe I should have left descriptions aside, but then again, I meant absolutely no harm.

With that said, I think his behaviour is totally unacceptable for a workplace. The guy was screaming, singing and putting nicknames on people he barely knew! We work at an office full of programmers and artists, people who need to be concentrated to do their tasks. And I don't think a guy acting like he is drunk on a party can contribute much to us. What if he has personal problems? Do you think I don't? That I have nothing at stake? Do you know what I've been through? That's NOT an excuse to behave badly at work. I worry about the future of a company I've been working for the last 9 years, so yes, I will judge every new guy they bring here. And if he proves to be a good worker at the end, I will respect him as much as anyone.

We have a gay guy working with us. I have yet to hear A WORD about him. Since the beggining he's working hard and contributing. People don't pick on him. The guy with the string could as well be respected in the future, but he needs to change his ways ASAP. I will try to include that on my conversation with him.

[scarlett]

Julia, I apologize for the behavior of others on this forum. This is a strange place. We have members born and raised in the US, English allegedly their native tongue, whose posts are so painful to read that many of us do not try. When they have been requested to use punctuation and capitalization moderators have threatened us. I'm sorry that it seems OK to pick on one from another continent and another language for minor details.

[Julia Red]

Scarlett, thank you for the kind words, but you don't need to apologize for anyone here. I would never hold anything against a wonderful group of people like I've found here because of the behavior of a few people. I'm here to stay.

But I don't think Adina was picking on me about my english, but about my attitude, which she disapproves. We're talking in private now.

[Eryn]

A good response to gossip like this is to say "What's wrong with that?" If they try to justify their bigotry, the next step is "Does his choice of underwear make you feel insecure about yourself?" Let them chew on that one for a while!

[Princess Grandpa]

I hope you'll update us how this progresses.

Hug
Rita

[BrittanyI]

Reading this made me think of a quote I heard before, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." If we as a community don't stand up for each other no matter the situation then who will? I work with the public and if I ever heard a coworker talking about a customer or anyone really like that I would have said something. What does it matter to them what choice of underwear someone else is wearing. Like some others have said I'd talk to the guy who is wearing the gsting or thong and let him know that he might want to keep his pants pulled up.

[Beverley Sims]

I applaud the idea but use a softly softly approach so as you have room to maneuver in the conversation.

Your friend might be a slow learner.

When you see the other guy just remind him to keep his pants up as others are talking about him wearing a thong or similar underwear.
Just indicate that you don't care about what he wears but others do.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Julia, This sounds like something for the HR Dept.

[Ume123]

So u have saggers in Brazil as well?

[donnalee]

You may be dealing with someone who is a little autistic (Aspergers or close). It seems that a lot of people here (including me) have this issue as well and can unknowingly offend people with body language or other unintentional behavior. A great many also have very high intelligence and are able to use logic far beyond the abilities of their coworkers, which can cause them to think something amiss "This weird guy can solve problems I can't; something is really wrong here! I will shun and bad mouth him/her!". This can also apply to supervisors. Don't be one.

[Ressie]

Either the string guy doesn't care if coworkers see his undies or maybe he wants them to. The only other possibility would be that he has no idea that when bending over the strings will be exposed. That would be really dumb!

Couldn't it be that he's looking for attention from men?

[Julia Red]

Princess Grandpa: I'll update you all on the situation. I want to talk to both guys tomorrow.

Beverley Sims: my colleague is a classic homophobe. I don't think he wants to learn anything and I don't think I'll change his mind about it but I want him to at least stop hating at the office and to keep his opinion to himself.

Blue Orchid: I thought about contacting the HR Dept, but I will first talk to the guys. If there's a bad reaction or if the situation gets worse, I might as well bring this issue to the HR. I hope I don't need to do that.

[devida]

Good for you Julia for paying attention to this problem and trying to deal with it. It is obviously quite complicated since the person seems to be his own worst enemy in terms of his (or her! or their!) behavior. This is a real life problem that cannot be dealt with by stereotyped judgements but requires the type of sensitivity and compassion that you are obviously displaying. Brazil is, in some ways, far ahead of the USA in the acceptance of gender non conforming people, at least culturally. I don't really know about transgender status legally in Brazil but I do know that at least at Carnivale transgender people are celebrated. Please let us know what happens.

[Flik]

Well good luck!

Although I'd be very worried about the backlash especially as the strings guy immature and hyper-active. I suppose there is two points here; defending the strings guy directly and just generally making the point that the bullying isn't cool.

[Ezekiel]

...just generally making the point that the bullying isn't cool

For bullies it is.

So... I don't think you will change their opinions about this subject (basically, you'll keep crashing with a wall). All you can do, I guess, is tone the situation down a bit, like you are already planning.

[Julia Red]

Good for you Julia for paying attention to this problem and trying to deal with it. It is obviously quite complicated since the person seems to be his own worst enemy in terms of his (or her! or their!) behavior. This is a real life problem that cannot be dealt with by stereotyped judgements but requires the type of sensitivity and compassion that you are obviously displaying. Brazil is, in some ways, far ahead of the USA in the acceptance of gender non conforming people, at least culturally. I don't really know about transgender status legally in Brazil but I do know that at least at Carnivale transgender people are celebrated. Please let us know what happens.

I think our government is doing a good job on that. Brazil have allowed same-sex marriage since last year. There are discussions to criminalize homophobia, just like racism. There are members of the parliament actively fighting for LGBT rights. But even though the brazilian government is leading the way on this subject, the brazilian people still need to catch up.

The thing is, Brazil is a very large country, with lots of different regions, each with their own culture and level of education, so some regions advance faster than others. Also, we are still a very religious country, and unfortunately this generates less acceptance. There are hate crimes happening everywhere and even though gay people are starting to blend in, the concept of transgenderism is still alien for most people. There's still a long way to go.

[Beverley Sims]

Julia I still applaud you in your endeavors.

If HR interaction is needed, so be it.

[Taylor Ray]

In America, some of us are raised to "mind our own business". Especially if it is related to work and money.

If you want to be an "activist", than go ahead and be one.

If you want to mind your own business, and separate work and play, than do that.

But it might be best to decide between the two. If you need to make other people's underwear your business, than be prepared for all of the energy and time it will require of you.

[Kate T]

Devida: Don't confuse the pretty television pictures with actual reality. Homophobia and transphobia in particular are MAJOR issues in south amercia generally, including Brazil, as I'm sure Julia can attest to. Transphobic sex crimes and violence are still at rates that make someone from the US, UK or Australia shudder.

Taylor: I don't think Julia is whining. She made a mistake, she should have said something immediately and she acknowledges that, she is just trying to work out the best way to sort it, for everyone concerned.

Julia, just be yourself, and do what you think is RIGHT. I am always surprised quite frankly at how this usually results in a good outcome for everyone involved, at least in the long run.

[Julia Red]

OK, here's my (big) update, as promised. I have good news, but first I want to name the people involved (not their real names):

- Steve: the guy who was wearing strings
- Bob: my best friend at the office, sits right next to Steve. Steve looks up to him.
- Vinny: the bully
- Sam: the guy who saw Steve's strings first and showed it to Vinny

First, I talked to Bob. He called in sick on last friday and was not there to witness the situation. It went on like this:
Me: So, have you heard anything about Friday?
Bob: You're talking about Steve? Yeah, of course. For some reason Vinny thinks he needs to tell me every single detail he finds out about him.
Me: Don't you think it's getting annoying? The way he's picking on Steve?
Bob: Surely. But then again, what were the guy thinking? Why would he wear something like that to work? It's like he's asking to be hated even more.
Me: Who cares why? He probably likes it. I don't think anyone should be bothered by that.
Bob: Well, as long as he learns to hide his butt, I won't mind either.

He then complained A LOT about Steve's behaviour. As we continued the conversation, I insisted with Bob that no one should make fun of Steve because of what he was wearing, and that I was feeling very bad about this situation. I told him that Vinny's behaviour was bothering me even more than Steve's now. I also said that Steve should know about it. He agreed with me in the end and said he could talk to Steve if he was there when it happened, but doing it now, 3 days later, would be weird. He said that maybe we could talk to Sam, as he was the one who saw it first.

Bob: He is very friendly to Steve, I think if someone has to speak with him about it, it should be Sam. After all, he was the one who started this in the first place.


Sometime later, I was lunching with Bob, and Vinny showed up. I was expecting him to say something about Steve so I could scold him lightly (now with my friend to back me up), but he didn't. He just showed us a scar he got while mountainbiking this weekend, talked about how he had fun, then we talked about things posted on facebook, and then he left. No mentioning of Steve.

I saw it as a good sign. Maybe he has chosen to ignore what happened? After all, he had his fun the other day, and now he was acting like it never happened. I took this as a sign of acceptance, so I continued with my plan of not talking about it unless he do it first. If he forgets about this and never mentions it again, that's the best thing that could happen.


Later the afternoon, I was playing PS3 with Bob (we have flexible working hours and a PS3 at our office) and Sam showed up. Bob began the conversation:

Bob: Sam, it was you who saw Steve's strings last friday, right?
Sam: What, Vinny told you? Damn, I should NOT have showed it to him. Now he is making fun of the boy for nothing.
Me: Vinny is beginning to cross the line now.
Bob: I think it's best that Steve should stop wearing things like this to work.
Sam: But he haven't done anything wrong! It's Vinny who's a fool and is making a big deal out of it.
Me: I agree, Steve does not have to change anything because of Vinny.
Bob: I'm just saying... to me it's inappropriate for work.
Sam: But it's UNDERWEAR! He can wear ANYTHING under his clothes, no one has the right to control that.

I was impressed with Sam. Never thought I would hear something like this at my workplace. I backed him up and said some words of approval. In the end, Bob was also convinced that Steve didn't do anything wrong. Sam also told us that he said a few words to Vinny about it, and made him back down. That explained what happened at lunch time, when Vinny remained quiet about it.

Then we asked him to speak with Steve about it.

Sam: No way I'm talking to him about it!
Me: But don't you think that he has the right to know that? That people saw it and are making fun of him?
Sam. No! He did nothing wrong! We should not make a big deal about it, because it's NOT important! It's HIS underwear, people should be confortable the way they want, and no one has anything to do about it!

Inside, I was cheering. I couldn't say it better, I was proud of Sam. Maybe I don't have this kind of courage to speak like that because of paranoia. I worry too much about being outed, so I hold my tongue on these subjects. I was ashamed of myself, because I should have spoken like that when Vinny told me about it, but instead, I remained silence. And Sam was feeling bad because he should not have told anyone what he saw, but he fixed that.


For the rest of the day, I never saw anyone talking about it. I think Vinny did not spread the "news" like I thought he would. Luckly, he told only a few chosen people, but I think even he understood that this is not a question to talk openly because it can backlash on him, and it did.

I'm feeling relieved now, apparently things are going to be OK, but I'm also feeling bad about myself, because I was a coward and Sam did everything I could not... Maybe it's a good lesson for me, as I have to speak my mind more often and care less about what other people think. :sad:

[Annaliese]

I would say, it not good for your job to be discriminating in the work place. If the guy filed a complaint you you might be the one leaving. That is what I would tell the bully.

[Tracii G]

I took up for one of our whse workers once that was showing pics from a Halloween party and inadvertently showed a pic where he was dressed in drag.
The guys really started bashing him and laughing as well as calling him a fag/sissy boy.
He got pretty upset and explained it was his GF's idea.
I stood up and said hey knock it off OK leave the guy alone and stop being aholes.
I went over and talked with him and said screw those guys they are classic jerks.
He thanked me for standing up for him.
I said what you do is your business and I'm here if you ever get hassled again.
Of course I got called queer for standing up for him and my reply was well so what if I am?
Out of the 20 guys in here at least two are probably gay so which one of you is it?
That pretty much ended the laughter and I never got asked if I was gay after that.

[Princess Grandpa]

Don't beat yourself up Julia. Maybe you didn't say something at first. /shrug you tried to make it right and in the end had an opportunity to see what kind of people you work with. Steve's choose of undergarments are no longer a topic of conversation. All seems well in the world to me.

Hug
Rita

[Flik]

I took up for one of our whse workers once that was showing pics from a Halloween party and inadvertently showed a pic where he was dressed in drag.
The guys really started bashing him and laughing as well as calling him a fag/sissy boy.
He got pretty upset and explained it was his GF's idea.
I stood up and said hey knock it off OK leave the guy alone and stop being aholes.
I went over and talked with him and said screw those guys they are classic jerks.
He thanked me for standing up for him.
I said what you do is your business and I'm here if you ever get hassled again.
Of course I got called queer for standing up for him and my reply was well so what if I am?
Out of the 20 guys in here at least two are probably gay so which one of you is it?
That pretty much ended the laughter and I never got asked if I was gay after that.

Classic response. Makes me very smiley. I would probably do it very similar to that too.

And to the original post that was all very well worked out... couldn't have happened better to be honest.

[Nicole Erin]

"Hey dude, ja know dat treating dat guy any different dan you treat teach oder could be taken das dcrimination and dat ist gainst da law?"

Should Julia pull her pants down around her ankles while saying it? FFS, they work in IT, not in some liquor store in the hood.

[Paula_Femme]

People can be SO petty and ignorant! One guy at a company I worked for was convinced I was gay - I'm boringly straight - because... my GYM SHORTS fall just ABOVE my knees! :eek:

Also, I've lost count of the number of times I've been "chatted-up" in the sauna because, like most Europeans, I sauna naked; sitting upright, eyes closed, chilling, hands between my legs, not "flaunting" anything! *sigh*

If you feel comfortable, I'd let the young man know that people are sniggering at his choice of underwear behind his back, let him decide what to do about it.

[Debra Russell]

Like some others have said I'd talk to the guy who is wearing the gsting or thong and let him know that he might want to keep his pants pulled up.

Yes as that should apply to all as just dress modesty for the work place..........................Debra

[~Joanne~]

I bet these guys would never tell the string-guy how they feel to his face, would they.

No, that's not how some bullies work. They keep a tight knit crowd in their loop, with the same low level of mentality, to make fun of others.

Julia, I can't say for sure if saying something to him in the guys defense will out you or not. This guy doing all the talking will probably condem you for sticking up for the other. May even spread stories and lies to keep the BS going. I sure wouldn't come out at work, that's for sure. if you under dress, you may want to reconsider doing so in the future.

Myself, if someone came up to me in the same manner, My first response would have been "why are you looking at that guy's butt? your the only one to notice until this point. Probably because none of the other guys are looking at another guys butt".

[Mickey M]

I am in the Trucking industry and I UNDERDRESS fem
Underwear and even wear a sports bra with A cups
to work every day . I actually hope I'm making a few
People wonder.