She said no way was her son going to put on an Elsa dress

[bimini1]

Apparently this is a Disney character popular right now. I eat lunch with a group of 30-something women. One just got back from Disneyworld and said her son wanted to dress as Elsa. She said that is where I draw the line. No way are you going to put on a dress.
I felt poorly. This is what I come to the lunch table to hear on a semi-regular basis. I wanted to crawl under the table. Had to just grin and bear it. Can't blame her either. There is no way out. It's not going to be accepted any time soon is it?

[PaulaQ]

You could tell her there is nothing wrong with it. You could make a stand. You wouldn't even have to out yourself. If we sit in silence, you are right, nothing will ever change.

[Beverley Sims]

I was at a girlfriends place when I was young, the girls wanted me to dress like them in pretty party frocks.
They showed their mother the dress they wanted me to wear.
The mother also said "no way", not in that dress it is too small.
My face dropped immediately.

She then brought out a lovely party frock more to my size.
I was elated. :)

[bimini1]

You could tell her there is nothing wrong with it. You could make a stand. You wouldn't even have to out yourself. If we sit in silence, you are right, nothing will ever change.

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

[Laura912]

You probably suffer from the stage fright many of us get when it comes to speaking out or showing ourselves out. Do not think the amount of the fright is proportional to age either.

[DonnaT]

Being a CD is not easy, for many.

Many of us started this life long adventure from simply putting on something like a dress for the first time.

Telling a parent there is nothing wrong with it could open her mind, but it could also start the boy on a journey he'd rather not be on. However, if he is already inclined to CD, then opening her mind could result in a kid having a happier life.

[bimini1]

I don't disagree with nor can I tell her how to raise a boy child. It was just the attitude and perceived vitriol she said it with.
I let it get under my skin. She got me at a bad time. I briefly slipped back into victimhood. Just one of those moments when I am tired of trying to defend this even to myself.

[PaulaQ]

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

Sure, internalized self hatred runs rampant around here. I'd guess most of us suffer from it to one degree or another.


What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

How people feel about things in public compared with how they feel about it in their private lives are often very different. Hypocrisy knows no political allegiance. And hey, plenty of liberals are transphobic.


Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

We all do, hon, we all do. I know that was scary and very uncomfortable to hear. You opted for survival by keeping your mouth shut, an understandable strategy.


I briefly slipped back into victimhood.

We are all of us victims of a very cruel society.

[Lorileah]

Elsa is the Snow Queen in Frozen. moSFlvxnbgk&feature=kp


What if he wanted to wear a Cinderella dress? Or Mulan? Or Robin Hood (he wore tights after all), Merida????

Where does she draw the line?

I would say yes it is possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time. It is very common here. the number of people who feel guilt over dressing is high

[bimini1]

The only thing I want, crave is strength and peace. Both of which I feel when dressed. I go out, which takes nerve in and of itself. When I go back to drab and hear these type things I waver. If you look at a history of my posts this has happened to me often and for quite some time. The difference now is my recovery time. I've already begun to move past it. Time was something like would stay on my mind for days weeks even.
So I am progressing. Having this community has been helpful.

[Erica Grace]

It will only be accepted when good-hearted people make a stand. There is nothing wrong with a little boy wanting to wear a dress, if it makes him happy then who cares. Of course it's not your place to tell her how to parent. But I have been in a similar situation with my guy friends and made a stand without outing myself in the process.

[Annaliese]

I want to dress as Elsa, there is one place in the movie, that Elsa does the most sexy walk I have ever seen in any movie. Great movie, also has made over a Billion since November.

[kelly123]

I wonder if she would let her son play with dolls? My guess would be yes, because most parents understand kids need to use their imagination sometimes. (That is apples and oranges, but still.)

[Annaliese]

Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

Yes you can be trans and trans-phobic, we have been wired since we were young it hard to un-wire and it takes time don't beat your self because you did not say anything, next time, or down the road you might or never. The thing is we are all thinking about it now and how we might act, that is what is importation. Thank you

[Leslie Langford]

Sorry to be so blunt, bimini, but you had a "teachable moment" presented to you, and you chose to let it slip past you.

It would have been entirely possible for you "call" your co-worker on her dogmatic and unreasonable position on this question and prod her to explain why she was so adamant about this, even without the risk of "outing" yourself in the process. And being in the presence of others at the time would really have put the onus on her to provide a credible answer without coming off as and intolerant person at best, and a bigot at worst.

If we adopt the tactics of a 3-year-old in such situations and repeatedly ask "Why?, Why?,Why?,... " when the first, second, and third, etc. answers someone gives us prove unsatisfactory, we will eventually either get to the real truth, or else cause that other person to re-evaluate their position once they realize how illogical it actually is.

[Stephanie47]

If a parent encounters a request like that from a son I would think an inquiry should be made. The worst thing a parent could do is rail against any sexual minority. Putting down any sexual minority does not but foster hatred or disapproval. If a son has sexual identity issues, fostering a negative attitude will drive him into a closet from which he may never escape. The days of beating a kid into a societal mold are over.

There is a saying a friend a long time ago used: "You protest too much!" If the coworker is so against her son wearing the attire of a cartoon young woman, what's really bothering her? Her husband is a cross dresser? Her mother's marriage was destroyed by cross dressing?

[Lexi_83]

Apparently this is a Disney character popular right now. I eat lunch with a group of 30-something women. One just got back from Disneyworld and said her son wanted to dress as Elsa. She said that is where I draw the line. No way are you going to put on a dress. //
Had to look it up. I don't think I could pull it off, anyway....

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/25/67/63/25676321173a3fc7ad17f58aa4b29e68.jpg

[bimini1]

Sorry to be so blunt, bimini, but you had a "teachable moment" presented to you, and you chose to let it slip past you.

It would have been entirely possible for you "call" your co-worker on her dogmatic and unreasonable position on this question and prod her to explain why she was so adamant about this, even without the risk of "outing" yourself in the process. And being in the presence of others at the time would really have put the onus on her to provide a credible answer without coming off as and intolerant person at best, and a bigot at worst.

If we adopt the tactics of a 3-year-old in such situations and repeatedly ask "Why?, Why?,Why?,... " when the first, second, and third, etc. answers someone gives us prove unsatisfactory, we will eventually either get to the real truth, or else cause that other person to re-evaluate their position once they realize how illogical it actually is.

I do feel like I totally dropped the ball. Like I didn't have the faculties to get into with her without coming off as nervous sounding about it.
I find it tough to argue with females about anything. It's like I can never get an upper hand on them.

[Caden Lane]

It's like revealing you crossdress to a very liberal wife. It's easy to be supportive and liberal... Until it's your husband or child that needs the support and understanding. That's why she reacted so poorly; it's her child behaving outside the norms.

I do regret that you feel you are trans phobic despite being trans. That's most unfortunate. I do hope that you find balance and understanding in your own situation.


Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

Could it be I'm the one that has a long way to go?

[sanderlay]

An Inspirational Character Worthy of Imitation

I have not seen the movie Frozen (2013). But after watching the You Tube link Lorileah shared in post #9 (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?211832-She-said-no-way-was-her-son-going-to-put-on-an-Elsa-dress&p=3476501&viewfull=1#post3476501) I was truly inspired. I will be looking for the DVD when it comes.

I can certainly see how this fictional character has inspired a child, or anyone for that mater, and how they might want to imitate them. The confidence portrayed, and the lyrics, is electric in the song "Let It Go."

I do see change happening for the better, especially in the last few years, as I look on the web. I think it will be easier for those with this special gift to be themselves as time goes on. We still have a long way to go but I am encouraged.

[Katey888]

I do feel like I totally dropped the ball. Like I didn't have the faculties to get into with her without coming off as nervous sounding about it.
I find it tough to argue with females about anything. It's like I can never get an upper hand on them.

Hey Bimini - please do not feel bad about this - sounds to me like you may have been a lone voice in that situation and you might have been there before... Don't feel bad... It's easy to be wise after the event - being there, as you are every day, potentially has consequences attached to anything you say or do...

Take the experience away - think about how it might have been different and how you might have been able to gently debate and discuss that point... Next time, forewarned is forearmed - and you will be prepared... :)

Katey x

[Tinkerbell-GG]

The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!! That's called parenting. She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would. We don't know that she doesn't allow him to dress secretly at home or whether she's just venting to friends as we women do - not actually thinking anyone expects her to change the world at the same time.

She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!

[bimini1]

Hey Bimini - please do not feel bad about this - sounds to me like you may have been a lone voice in that situation and you might have been there before... Don't feel bad... It's easy to be wise after the event - being there, as you are every day, potentially has consequences attached to anything you say or do...

Take the experience away - think about how it might have been different and how you might have been able to gently debate and discuss that point... Next time, forewarned is forearmed - and you will be prepared... :)

Katey x


To be perfectly honest about it this is the very reason I tend to stray away from social situations. Because sooner or later someone is gonna go "there". And it makes me uncomfy, and I know that isn't the way to be.....and I am working on it. I feel like I am too self-absorbed when it comes to my TG self.


The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!! That's called parenting. She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would. We don't know that she doesn't allow him to dress secretly at home or whether she's just venting to friends as we women do - not actually thinking anyone expects her to change the world at the same time.

She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!


I totally agree. I feel like it is more on me than her. I think in my own mind I build up these scenarios of perception that may or may not have anything to do with reality.

[PaulaQ]

The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!!

I'm sorry, hon, but that is totally transphobic. Many of us can recite long litanies of cruelties we endured from our parents who didn't want us to dress.


She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would.

Our current society is sick. Sorry - but it is. This is not a behavioral problem that has to be "corrected". It is a childhood medical condition that is generally ignored because society hates it, and would rather pretend it didn't exist.


She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!

You outnumber us by 3000 to 1. Or maybe it's more like 15000 to 1. We have plenty of cause for paranoia, Tinkerbell - it's well justified.

[Nadine Spirit]

Jules and I were having diner with several other couples, none of which know about me cding, when two other males started talking trash about "trannies." They said something stupid, and all of us at the table laughed, myself included. It wasn't until about an hour or so later that I felt pretty sick to my stomach. I justified my behavior quite a bit but still knew that it was wrong on numerous levels. I vowed to never allow myself to do that again.

Sure enough a few months later we were all having dinner again, and again they brought up "trannies" walking the streets of Belmont Shore in Long Beach. They said something stupid again, and this time I said "Hey guys, don't forget that the cross dressers that you are talking about are men, who could probably still kick your ass." They looked at me, and changed the topic. Never again have they brought up the topic in my presence.

It is tough to be the sole voice in a sea of differing opinions, but to me I decided I can't live with myself unless I do so.

Bimini1 - only you can decide what you should have done, or if what you did do was the right choice.

[Chloe75]

Lexi, I think you could. That is a gorgeous dress though I don't see the slit....giggles. ;)

Had to look it up. I don't think I could pull it off, anyway....

[julia marie]

There are no easy answers in these situations. You have a few seconds to make a decision based on who is talking, how you feel, how you would word what you have to say, and the longer term implications based on how the others are the table would reaction. I think that most of us could look back on hundreds of scenarios where we wish we had said something or said something different, not only in terms of CD'ing but regarding people's comments about the genders, gays, the disabled, racial differences, and politics.
Missed opportunity? Sure, but not the end of the world.

[Ezekiel]

The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!! That's called parenting. She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would.

The way she seems to vocalize it, yes, my guess is that it is transphobia, and thats parenting in one of the worst ways possible, to force onto a kid the bigoted ways of society, which in case that he in the end happens to be under the Transgender umbrella, will only reinforce in him self hate, self loathing, insecurity, depression, terrible guilt and shame and a long etc many here can relate to. Quite unhealthy.

If the kid wants to wear a dress, and really wants to wear it, let the kid do it and defend his choice in front of anyone who dares pass on any judgement. Now that is parenting in my opinion.

[Stephanie47]

There's parenting and then there's parenting. I think many of us viewed the original post as a mom with innate hostility. Sure, we do not know how she approached a conversation with her son. Did she sit down and calmly explain in some manner that societal norms and expectations preclude the son from wearing women's clothing? Or did she scream and yell at her son and send him to bed without supper for having such sinful thoughts? Don't know? From what was stated I assume she herself is not in any way shape or form accepting of cross dressing men. Of course at a very young age a boy may not have been subjected to the societal norms.

Back in the 1950's and early 1960's my baseball team's center field was "Charlie," AKA: Linda. She wore jeans and tee shirts. I never saw her in a dress. She was a damn good center fielder and hitter. All the old biddies in the neighborhood talked ill of her. How could a girl be allowed to play baseball? All the boys cared about was her ability to hit and field. I think her parents must have figured being a center fielder was OK. Otherwise, how could a kid ever get the money to buy boy clothes. I just figure Linda was several decades ahead of her time. My daughter played softball at the same age as Linda, but, she was on an all girl team, and, they all chose to wear pink tee shirts.

I guess each of us get to fill in the blanks. I filled in the blanks based on the actuality of my parents and every other boy's parents of the 1950's and 1960's.


The mother didn't want her boy wearing a dress - that's not transphobia!! That's called parenting. She's guiding him in the ways of our current society as any mother would. We don't know that she doesn't allow him to dress secretly at home or whether she's just venting to friends as we women do - not actually thinking anyone expects her to change the world at the same time.

She may or may not be transphobic, but there's plenty of transparanoia here!

[kendra_gurl]

Our current society is sick. Sorry - but it is. This is not a behavioral problem that has to be "corrected". It is a childhood medical condition that is generally ignored because society hates it, and would rather pretend it didn't exist..

This Assumes a lot that is not known here. Was this perhaps a 3 to 6 year old who just thinks it might be fun or was it a 7 to 12 year old who has been wanting to experiment for a long time with crossdressing? We don't even know how she handled the situation with her son, only what she said later to her lunch friends.

My grandson when he was very small 3 or 4 went thru a brief period when he expressed some interest in more girly things. No one made a big deal about it and his fascination with it passed rather naturally.
While I would be able to understand and support him had he chosen a different path thru his own choice or nature, I would not have at that age encouraged him by allowing him to wear a dress.

Just because we accept there are gender variances among us does not mean we have to want it for our children if its not really there.

If that mother has said sure why not. if he wants to parade around in a princess dress so be it I don't care some on this site might think that was great but would it really be without at least some investigation as to his motivation?

[Ezekiel]

This Assumes a lot that is not known here. Was this perhaps a 3 to 6 year old who just thinks it might be fun or was it a 7 to 12 year old who has been wanting to experiment for a long time with crossdressing? We don't even know how she handled the situation with her son, only what she said later to her lunch friends.

Whatever the situation, why would not he be able to wear the dress? and why would be so inquisitive saying "that line won't be crossed"?


My grandson when he was very small 3 or 4 went thru a brief period when he expressed some interest in more girly things. No one made a big deal about it and his fascination with it passed rather naturally.
While I would be able to understand and support him had he chosen a different path thru his own choice or nature, I would not have at that age encouraged him by allowing him to wear a dress.

Encouraging in what sense? So you would not allow him either if you were the parent to wear the dress? Exactly why? Ingrained prejudice that transgenderism is something bad. Yes society is harsh, I'm closeted for these very reasons but at that age? Why would it matter? Society is harsh exactly because of this kind of decisions, no one does nothing when given the opportunity to a step forward.


Just because we accept there are gender variances among us does not mean we have to want it for our children if its not really there.

No sure, we don't know if its really there, all he is asking is to wear a dress. Let the kid wear the dress I say. Besides, whats wrong with the gender variances? We are all affected by society's transphobia its got to us, we have it too.


If that mother has said sure why not. if he wants to parade around in a princess dress so be it I don't care some on this site might think that was great but would it really be without at least some investigation as to his motivation?

I agree 100% here, thats why in my last post I said "...if he really wants to wear the dress..." But that does not mean that wearing a dress is something to be ashamed, something bad or sinful like this mom approach seems to be.

Sure sure, parenting is hard, you want the best for your kid, you dont want him/her be bullied etc etc but its these kind of moves towards tolerance that parents are responsible of, and many fail at doing the right thing.

[bimini1]

The woman who said it is a great friend. I considered her to be an ally as she has made affirming statements about gays before. But as we all know, to be gay friendly does not add up to being T friendly. Son is 3 going on 4. She also has 5 year old daughter. Now what I probably should have said was what if her daughter wanted to dress up as a male character what would her feeling on that be? May have been the same but I'd wager not.

[Flik]

Personally I would have said something but I completely understand why you didn't. Also don't be too hard on yourself about not saying anything. Kids these days are a lot more exposed to everything, the good and the bad 8 guess. So there's a fair chance that child will find his own way by the time he can seriously think about it. It's a shame about his mother...

Wow 8 love the dress though <3

[PaulaQ]

Was this perhaps a 3 to 6 year old who just thinks it might be fun or was it a 7 to 12 year old who has been wanting to experiment for a long time with crossdressing? We don't even know how she handled the situation with her son, only what she said later to her lunch friends.

Why would age have made any difference? Some of us start really young. The mom sure didn't sound like she'd be very accepting, did she?


While I would be able to understand and support him had he chosen a different path thru his own choice or nature, I would not have at that age encouraged him by allowing him to wear a dress.


You'd have been wrong then. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Maybe (hopefully) it would've just been a phase for him. Maybe the poor kid is actually trans, and will not seek treatment now until they've been horribly scarred by testosterone. We'll never know, because mom knows best - even when she likely doesn't know anything, and is apparently prejudiced.

[Ezekiel]

Theres like a kind of culture about parenting that makes people think parents are entitled to do whatever they want with their kids, regardless of the consequences...

Scary.

[kendra_gurl]

You'd have been wrong then. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel. Maybe (hopefully) it would've just been a phase for him. Maybe the poor kid is actually trans, and will not seek treatment now until they've been horribly scarred by testosterone. We'll never know, because mom knows best - even when she likely doesn't know anything, and is apparently prejudiced.

You have every right to you opinion and to promote any agenda you want.

I learned a long time ago not to jump on anyones bandwagon until I find out enough information to make a decision on my own and when presented with an in your face attitude about anything, first thing I do is take a giant step back and figure out what and where that agenda is coming from.

A little sceniro if you will. This little 3 or 4 or 7 or 12 year old does indeed get to wear the princess dress. He enjoys acting out scenes of that character he saw in the movie and has a great time in doing so. The next year when a new Spider man or Super man movie come out he totally abandons the princess clothing for a new costume. Now fast forward a few year when he has totally out grew all costumes and has become a typical young boy with friends who all of a sudden hear from his older sister that he used to love to wear a princess dress. Does it matter that he was just a kid experimenting with something that was totally harmless at the time and may have grew out of it? Does that stop the ridicule and bulling from his school mates?

Paula I have followed your post for quite some time and know where your coming from and can admire you for fighting against transphobia and prejudice. But without the all facts in this case you seem to be the one who thinks your way is the only way.

[SabrinaEmily]

Apparently this is a Disney character popular right now. I eat lunch with a group of 30-something women. One just got back from Disneyworld and said her son wanted to dress as Elsa. She said that is where I draw the line. No way are you going to put on a dress.
I felt poorly. This is what I come to the lunch table to hear on a semi-regular basis. I wanted to crawl under the table. Had to just grin and bear it.

No. You didn't. You could have said something. You could have asked just why that's so terrible. Would you have changed her mind? Probably not, but you would have been true to yourself, not scared of shadows, and after all, you would be surprised how much of a difference you can make in the minds of bystanders when you shatter a perceived consensus by silence.

"Grin and bear it?" Anyone who has watched Frozen will know how well "conceal, don't feel", which sounds remarkably similar, worked for Elsa.


Can't blame her either. There is no way out. It's not going to be accepted any time soon is it?

Not that way.


A little sceniro if you will. This little 3 or 4 or 7 or 12 year old does indeed get to wear the princess dress. He enjoys acting out scenes of that character he saw in the movie and has a great time in doing so. The next year when a new Spider man or Super man movie come out he totally abandons the princess clothing for a new costume. Now fast forward a few year when he has totally out grew all costumes and has become a typical young boy with friends who all of a sudden hear from his older sister that he used to love to wear a princess dress. Does it matter that he was just a kid experimenting with something that was totally harmless at the time and may have grew out of it? Does that stop the ridicule and bulling from his school mates?

So? Lots of schoolchildren, and adults as well -- I would say most -- have events in their childhood that they would be embarrassed to have their friends hear about. Parents can't stop this from happening (more likely, they unintentionally encourage many forms of it because they think it's cute at the time.)

I think a child who isn't taught by their parents' actions that being oneself is something to be ashamed of will be much healthier and more resilient to bullying than one who is taught to hide their self and to think of fitting in above all. Further, no one should deceive themself that obsessive "fitting in" is any sort of defense against bullying. That only comes from strong sense of self, associating with real friends and not bullies, and if it turns physical, knowing how to defend oneself.

[PaulaQ]

Does it matter that he was just a kid experimenting with something that was totally harmless at the time and may have grew out of it? Does that stop the ridicule and bulling from his school mates?

This is why so many parents keep trans kids from expressing their gender identity at all. There's no way to protect your kid from everything.


Paula I have followed your post for quite some time and know where your coming from and can admire you for fighting against transphobia and prejudice. But without the all facts in this case you seem to be the one who thinks your way is the only way.

No hon, just the most probable explanation. bimini1 seemed to feel the comment was really negative - that's the best evidence we have. Will we ever know? Nope. I've seen this kind of thing happen over and over and over again though, to kids who ultimately grow up to be trans.

Anyway, my opinion is that she's probably in the vast horde of cis people who condition boys to display NO feminine characteristics at all.

Well, we can agree to disagree - you are correct, we'll never know the end of the story, so your opinion is as good as mine.

[Deedee Skyblue]

There is a saying a friend a long time ago used: "You protest too much!" If the coworker is so against her son wearing the attire of a cartoon young woman, what's really bothering her? Her husband is a cross dresser? Her mother's marriage was destroyed by cross dressing?

She doesn't understand gender. She was raised to believe "real men don't wear dresses". She wants her boy child to grow up to be that kind of man. There is no reason to read _anything_ further into this woman's attitude.

Deedee


I find it tough to argue with females about anything. It's like I can never get an upper hand on them.

Maybe the reason we're all CDs is that we are tired of being wrong every time we disagree with a woman? Uh, oh, that's probably going to get me in trouble. Oh, well - it's a joke!

Deedee ;)


Yes society is harsh, I'm closeted for these very reasons but at that age?

We don't know the kid's age, but who is crueler to a 8 year old who is different than the other 8 year olds around him/her? I was practically driven to tears because I was the first boy in my grade who had to wear glasses. Is it wrong to want to protect your son from being bullied?

Deedee

[TxCassie]

Bimini1, Please, Please don't beat yourself up about this moment in time. Ok, you could have said something, that would have been great. But, remember, you are at the workplace. One doesn't want to create conflict on a social basis with your co-workers. You will know when it's time to speak up. If this young boy is at the beginning of his transgender journey, mom will have many more days where you can speak to her privately with compassion, knowledge, and true sincerity. She will need the support because as much as we all would like to believe to the contrary, the realization that one's child maybe transgender, especially when they are so young, can be very scary to the parent.

You know, when your child is born, you want the world for them, but what seems a blink of the eye, you turn and see that the world is already theirs. So, when something like transgenderism surfaces, parents are facing the unknown, and anything unknown is scary, scary, scary, especially when it comes to your child.

Of course, we all know silence kills silently and in these days of such social polarization, least we live the days of the Holocaust ever again, God Deliver Us! Think of your experience this way, dear, while you were silent that day, that day, allowed you to be one day closer to the day you will no longer be silent. On that day, how joyous of a day it will be, and you will open the door to a freer life.

Take Care Dear.

Cassie :daydreaming: :love:

[bimini1]

For some reason I suspect there is going to be a part two to this. In actuality, I guess how she feels about it is really none of my business. What I need to work on is thicker skin and how I process these attitudes. It wasn't about me, it was about her 3 year old son. But somehow, I made it about me.

This is why I say I am too self-absorbed about being TG. One can be offended by anything if they look hard enough. It should have rolled off my back but for some reason today I could not let it go.

Funny how someone could say something so insignificant to them, yet it rocked my afternoon and led to this elaborate discussion here. She probably hasn't given what she said a second thought.

[PaulaQ]

It wasn't about me, it was about her 3 year old son. But somehow, I made it about me.


It's completely understandable that you felt that way. I've felt that way before - listening to stories at dinner with my friends in Oklahoma and hearing them talk about trans women who'd kind of been run out of town. They didn't know about me then - I wasn't out yet. I sat in silence, and felt I dare say nothing.

One of the guys at the table mentioned he'd really like to see a transgender woman naked because of her anatomical peculiarities. (This was phrased in a crude enough manner that the mods will stroke out if I typed it verbatim.) I almost said something but didn't.

One of my friends, after I came out, told me it was probably better I hadn't said anything. She was of the opinion he'd have beaten me up had I outed myself.

[Eryn]

The world is full of teachable moments and the fact that one slipped by should not distress you. You were just not prepared to teach at that moment and you will be better prepared next time.

As far as the boy wearing the dress, a lot of boys put on dresses and don't become CDers. it's not as though we catch CDing from frilly clothes, after all! Chances are, he'll have is fun and have nothing left from it other than memories of a good time and an appreciation for what women go through to look good.

Now he might put on a dress and realize that there's something special there, but that something existed before the dress came into the picture. Such an experience might well save him from decades of vague self-loathing before he finally comes to grips with his "inordinate interest" in feminine things.

Unfortunately the mainstream population is blissfully ignorant of TG issues and we are one of the the last minority groups that is still subject to blatant ridicule and hatred. That doesn't mean that I sit idly by while people express hateful things about the community. It is indeed possible to make it known that such behavior is not acceptable without outing oneself.

Questioning a parenting decision does require a light touch. One might ask what the parent fears in allowing their son to dress up as a female character but raising a direct objection would not be productive.

It might be helpful to ask a couple of questions. Has he dressed up as a ghost? A zombie? A vampire? All of these are manifestations of characters living after dying. If the mother is worried about wearing a dress costume causing gender issues wouldn't dressing as ghoulish characters lead to far worse outcomes?

[Leslie Langford]

I do feel like I totally dropped the ball. Like I didn't have the faculties to get into with her without coming off as nervous sounding about it.
I find it tough to argue with females about anything. It's like I can never get an upper hand on them.

So, are you in effect saying that in order to hang with the girls and keep up with them, you have to grow a pair? ;)

Kinda turns the whole TG/TS experience on it's ear, don'tcha' think? :eek: :heehee: :D

[Tracii G]

[QUOTE=bimini1;3476428]Could it be I didn't say anything because I don't firmly believe there is nothing wrong with it myself? Is it possible to be trans and transphobic at the same time?

What got me most of all is that in previous conversations with this woman, she comes off as being the most liberal of the bunch.

I find that the most liberal of the bunch are the ones that are the least understanding when it comes to others opinions.
I see it everyday and don't mind to make it known to them how hypocritical they sound.
I have a friend that says he is for equal rights and yet gays and trans people are freaks an should be strung up.
Apparently he pays no attention to the way I dress which I find hysterical.

[ReineD]

For some reason I suspect there is going to be a part two to this. In actuality, I guess how she feels about it is really none of my business. What I need to work on is thicker skin and how I process these attitudes. It wasn't about me, it was about her 3 year old son. But somehow, I made it about me.

I think that you displayed sensitivity by not saying anything. You knew that it was her call and a discussion about parents' decisions about their kids is not something to start a debate over during a lunch with several friends. It's not as if this woman was belittling and making fun of a crossdresser that she had just seen. This is a mother who is not a part of the culture in this forum, and who understandably wants her three year old son to grow up to be a boy ... despite everyone who says there is nothing wrong with boys wearing dresses. :)

There is a difference between accepting a next door neighbor who crossdresses, and a son who wants to do the same.

I'm also liberal and 25 years ago if my son had expressed (perhaps several times) that he wanted to wear a dress, I would have been afraid. You say this woman said that "she drew the line" at a dress. This indicates there might have been other times her son has wanted to be feminine. We all know that the world is not kind to transgenders and none of us relishes the idea that our children might be different. It would have taken me some time and some education to come to realize what wanting to wear a dress was all about and the best way to handle it.

An option, if you know this woman well, is to remind her of her comment when you are alone with her next, and ask her if she is afraid that her son might like to dress up like a girl too much. You could tell her that you know something about transgender children, and then just go ahead and explain to her what you do know. You might even do a little homework ahead of time and find a good site for parents of transgender children that you could share, in case it is needed. If she wants to know why you know so much, you could simply say that you know a transgender child. This would not be too far from the truth.

[Jacqueline Winona]

I'm with Tinkerbell and Reine on this one. Before I assume the worst about the mother and transphobia, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she doesn't believe her son is trans. If any of you have ever been to Disneyland, you've probably seen that little girls in princess costumes are photographed by strangers all the time. She may not have wanted her son's picture snapped and shared by people she doesn't know, or wanted people laughing at her son in a public place like Disneyland.

[Wildaboutheels]

You were caught off guard and obviously feel guilty for not taking a stance. It's pretty common here.

Now the only question is, after reading all these replies, and having had time to chew on it, what will happen the next time?

[mechamoose]

. I justified my behavior quite a bit but still knew that it was wrong on numerous levels. I vowed to never allow myself to do that again.

and this time I said "Hey guys, don't forget that the cross dressers that you are talking about are men, who could probably still kick your ass." They looked at me, and changed the topic. Never again have they brought up the topic in my presence.


10 years of Kung Fu under an awesome Sifu. Bring it, bitch!

>cough<

>adjust skirt<

I'm sorry, what was that again?

- MM

[Kate T]

With respect Reine, Tinkerbell and Winona I disagree.

As reported in the OP, the issue is not about Bmini, nor about the boy but about the apparent prejudice to gender nonconformity in society and particularly by this parent. We have only the OP report however the tone seems fairly clear in terms of a disdain for societal non conformity on this issue. We have seen this suppression of expression before, Stonewall, Civil rights movement, even the first women and girls who dared to wear trousers in public. Wear does this line that is drawn stop? Does it include "Protecting children from information harmful to their health and development" ?

And no Reine, 25 years ago you may well have been afraid but you would not have drawn that line. This I believe, you may well have talked to your son and tried to make him understand to the best of your ability why some people may pick on him or be mean to him for wanting the dress to play dress ups, but if he truly wanted to do it you would have backed him up 110% and floored any adult who had the audacity to pick on him. Sorry, thats just who you are. It's who most parents, particularly mothers, are, it's just that sometimes we have to have the smoke and mirrors of society removed from our eyes.

"Love one another as you love yourself". The commandment is NOT "Love one another as society loves them". It's a true commandment whether you are christian or not.

[Lorileah]

:yt: Adina


what will happen the next time? The same thing Wild. It will take a lot of courage to say anything. It will be regarded as Bimini trying to tell the woman how to raise her child. I might say something but I am outspoken and my friends would know I had an opinion. The OP doesn't have that luxury I assume. And it depends on how close they are too. Co-workers don't tend to accept advice on personal matters from other co-workers. A good friend might

The child is 3, they see things and they like things and sexuality or gender doesn't enter their minds. It is just playtime. The bad part is now the seed is planted and the child has this idea now that dressing is a sign of weakness or that wearing a dress makes you less (I know the mother may not have intended that but I am sure the comment was something like "Boys don't do that"). You have to be taught prejudice and stereotypes.

And as far as saying the mother is teaching the child current society values, I can only think "Thank goodness JFK's mother didn't do that" or any of the thousands of people who marched with MLK, Gloria Steinem, Cesar Chavez. Just because society says something doesn't mean it is right and by allowing people (even 3 year olds) to think for themselves is how the world evolves and gets better. We should be teaching the following generations love and acceptance, not following blindly behind. Parents can and often do take the easy way out on issues like this, after all there are so many other things they have to do as parents (no that isn't sarcasm, but the truth, they are overwhelmed with everyday). I have been in practice a long time and I am now seeing grandchildren of people who were young parents when I started. I have to tell you I can tell the children of parents who taught their kids love over hate and acceptance over staunch ideals. These kids who are now parents of their own children spend the time to explain the Vet who now is a woman. And the kids find that awesome usually, they don't question why I am doing it but celebrate who I am. Before I was "out" to most the world I did things that pushed the status quo. I would wear nail polish and sandals for one thing. One day a tween girl saw that and looked at her mother and said "Look mom, HE'S wearing polish!" The mother calmly looked at the girl and said "I know, cool huh?"

[Amanda M]

Her child. Her parenting style Right or wrong! Asfor suggesting that 3 year old justify his choice - what? I don't think it's time to risk a verbal scrap when you are caught on the back foot.

[bridget thronton]

I suspect I might have said something like "there are worse things he might ask to do" and let it drop. It is her son and her parenting call.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Bimini (and all the other lovely trans folk here that I enjoy chatting to:)), I said what I did because I'm telling you the 'mom' side - the one I'm currently living. Believe me, it's war out here! Even the most open-minded, liberal, accept-everyone mother will start doubting herself and turning herself into a Stepford Wife to protect her young child. We can't stand the idea of our precious babies having a difficult life and we blame ourselves endlessly, for everything. So yes, Reine likely would have been afraid, as would I, even though I know so much more than most.

What I do know is these feelings are mostly reserved for very young children like Bimini's friend's 3 year old, and even though this mother is making snipes in public about boys and dresses, my guess is she loves her son as much as any mother and would protect his right to wear one should he really need to and when he's old enough to understand the ramifications. Until this point, it is SHE who will be blamed if her son wears a dress. Did she want a girl? Is she too clingy? Did she breastfeed him too long, or worse, not breastfeed at all?

I'm not kidding. These are the comments we live with, day in, day out, and everyday, many mothers of young children go about their day feeling judged. Thankfully, our babies will get older and more independent, and for most mothers, they're finally able to let them go and be who they will be. Until then, we live like a friend of mine who's raising a 4 year old boy who's been saying he's a girl since he can talk. Publicly, to avoid the abuse she has received from preschools and the like, her son now wears pink boys shirts and shorts and is her little boy. At home, he's her princess who can wear what she likes. Publicly, this mother would likely tell a group of friends that she'd draw a line at him wearing a dress. But one day soon, she will let him do just that because she'll know for sure that this is his choice, and not hers. She will be able to face judgment and know she's doing the right thing - something few mothers can say with confidence when their children are so young. Bimini's friend may be transphobic, or she may just be the frazzled, socially-judged mother of a 3 year old.

Bimini, I hope you give her the benefit of the doubt and have a private chat with her so she doesn't need to put on a show for the other mothers. For all you know, she might be desperately confused and scared and in need of your understanding and support. x

[Deedee Skyblue]

Until this point, it is SHE who will be blamed if her son wears a dress. Did she want a girl? Is she too clingy? Did she breastfeed him too long, or worse, not breastfeed at all?

Heck, in some jurisdictions, they might even take the child away.

Deedee


I find that the most liberal of the bunch are the ones that are the least understanding when it comes to others opinions.

This is a generalization and doesn't apply to all of any category of people - but I agree, it bugs me, when someone who professes to be liberal and in favor of diversity also strongly feels that anyone whose opinion is different, is obviously and contemptibly wrong. Accepting diversity means accepting diversity of opinion.

Deedee

[Sonya]

I also feel very uneasy when socializing with friends and family when a conversation about gender variance (of course most people use more slang labels) arises. It usually makes me sad since like the OP I usually do not speak my mind and avoid the topic, which really does not help our community. I can tell you most of these conversations are degrading to our collective community and the main purpose is to achieve a cheap laugh. I hope soon I can change my mindset and stand up for all of us and try to educate some people.

Parenting is probably the most difficult job we have to do in our lives but I think we have to teach our kids about tolerance and respect for others and ourselves, and do the best we can for them. We have to let our children know that being different does not make anyone bad or evil, they could be different in skin colour, sexual orientation, tall, short disabled or what ever.

It will be extremely difficult for a mother to not get negatively effected by her 3 year old sons wish to wear a dress if she never had a personal relationship with a transgendered person and made an afford to understand him/her and realises our issues to a degree. If the mother is easily affected by peer and social pressures then it makes it harder to see things objectively. I can certainly understand not encouraging her son to wear a dress but I think negatively depriving her son’s wishes is not the best way to go. Like previously said parenting is very personal and sensitive and it is very easy to offend others. I personally know parents who are scared that their kids will grow up to be gay or lesbian and they make it obvious to a little child and it makes me really sad.

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

Goodness . . . it is hard to believe that the OP's post transcended into a "parenting style" debate . . . or is it :).

I believe Bimini handled it in a decent way. Geez, we all don't have to raise the TG banner and get into a knock down Spartacus death match about what is right and what is wrong. It if works for you, then do so but don't fault the OP for not doing what in your opinion is the right thing.

Seriously, you are going to get into an argument over parenting skill just because you happen to be TG. Don't get me wrong, if an adult is sitting in a group of people belittling and TG person, I will be the first "boy" or "girl" to lead the charge of righteous retribution. :devil: However, this was the mother of a three year old boy, who may or may not be TG. It is her call whether you like it or not.

Let's reverse this conversation and say you are a group of manly men sitting around discussing your sons. One guy says he wants his son to play hockey because it will teach him sportsmanship . . . um sure it will. If you have more of a predilection towards ballet, dance and yoga are your going just blurt out "Hockey will only teach your son to be violent and mean . . . now ballet that is something you should get him into". Not likely. Why? Because it is quite frankly none of your business. She was not hurting the boy, she was not being a bad parent . . . she was being a mother. Does she hate TGs? Don't know, can't say. Her comments may have just been a reaction to an awkward moment.

I am not advocating leaving people in ignorance when it comes to the TG battle but come on this was a three year old boy and a mother who only wants the best for him. Find another hill to charge ... preferably one with an adult making fun of TGs on it.

Hugs

Isha

[bimini1]

Thanks to all I feel better just realizing I am not alone. I felt alone at the table like everyone is against me. Now there are a couple of ladies in this lunchroom clique that have made disparaging comments. One of which whom said TG is akin to self-mutilation. Again, silence from me. Never heard the mother in question say anything overtly offensive. I'm just scared if I put up a differing opinion they will all gang up on me. I feel its just not worth it. I just cannot let it affect my self worth. Bottom line is not only am I after self acceptance but must also accept the opinions of others. Still hurts though to hear this kind of stuff.
It's not going to go away and neither is my TG.

[Kate T]

At some point Bimini you may need to decide whether you value your self worth based on the opinion of others versus being true to your own ideals. This goes for everything, not just our little CD world, but EVERYTHING, from your opinion on refuges to religious tolerance to the right to have same sex relations.
You do not need to draw attention to yourself. As Tinkerbell has said, sometimes there is a lot of social bluff in these issues, present a reasonable and valid argument as to why it may not be such a horrific problem (it always helps if some of the more vocal like your friend who said TG is akin to self mutilation has had some form of plastic surgery :)), do not attack anyone personally, and I suspect you will be surprised how many of your friends at least murmur agreement. Talk about research, documentaries, popular admirable figures who are trans, there are a few out there. But if you sit there in silence then you condemn yourself as much as you condemn others.
And I am not saying it is easy. It isn't. It's horrible and hard and you will perhaps be ganged up on and ridiculed. The question is what do you value most, your own personal integrity or social acceptance.

[sometimes_miss]

<snip> This is what I come to the lunch table to hear on a semi-regular basis. I wanted to crawl under the table. Had to just grin and bear it. Can't blame her either. There is no way out. It's not going to be accepted any time soon is it?
And yet, this is exactly what so many people here prefer to ignore. The pink fog is strong on this forum. We want so much to be accepted, we will ignore any mention of non acceptance. After all, if you don't acknowledge it, then it isn't there, right? Times haven't changed that much yet. Little girls can still want to be cowboys, astronauts, soldiers, racing drivers, etc, all kinds of things that used to be primarily only for boys, but boys are NOT allowed to want to be princesses, etc. It still freaks people out.

[giuseppina]

Faced with this situation, I probably wouldn't do much other than give the offending person(s) a scowl or glower, otherwise known as The Look, to tell them I don't agree with their opinion. If they ask questions, I'll tell them. In this case, I think the mother's fears are unfounded. It's an experiment on the part of the son.

It seems to me there was a lot of gratuitous excitement over the head of J. Crew or other well-known apparel vendor painting her young son's toenails pink a few years ago. This is no different, IMHO.

All of us must make decisions on our actions based on our comfort level with the ensuing discussion or conflict. This is the kind of thing people don't change their opinions over easily.

[Aylineira]

Sorry but I haven't read anything on this post... I just want to say this: I FREAKING LOVE THAT ELSA DRESS OMG!!! Carry on... sorry for not being on topic.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2195876/Nils-Pickert-German-father-wears-womens-clothing-solidarity-cross-dressing-year-old-son.html

Bimini, this older article I remember reading shows the other side of all this and might give you some hope that it won't always be this way, for any of us :)

[PaulaQ]

Thanks Tinkerbell, that article is awesome!

[freeindress]

In such a situation, I'd remind her to be wary of putting high expectations on his too young son that may not become an idealistically perfect male she has not found in any other man including her husband, that kids this age (and much older !) should be free to innocently entertain impersonating any cute character of movie or book, and that bringing frustation into him by forbidding to get in touch with his feminine side could lead to identity problems later.

[NicoleScott]

It seems that some are focused on the blown opportunity to stand up for the trans community, rather than focusing on a blown opportunity to help the mother to explore what's behind the boy's desire to wear a dress, for the benefit of the boy. It's very possible that the boy doesn't have any gender issues, and just wants to wear the costume once. If he does have gender issues, slinging around transphobia labels isn't any help to him.

[bimini1]

Yeah, I made more out of it than what it was, saw things in it that may or may not have even been there. It's totally my issue and not hers. I have to keep learning from life and moving on toward's self realization, actualization and acceptance. She can do what she wants, got absolutely nothing to do with me. They all can do what they want, feel how they feel. I can't judge 'em that is when I get into trouble. I am just as entitled to an opinion as everyone else is. I need to work at changing my own attitudes first.

I'm finding that the truth of the matter is I may be transphobic. Which is a sad case in and of itself. To be afraid of your own self. I can delude myself into thinking that I'm not, but the proof is in the actions. If I wasn't, then what anyone said or says negatively about TG/CD would just roll off. But it doesn't because deep down I can't express an alternate opinion because maybe I secretly agree with what is being said. That there IS something wrong with it.

I'm damm near 50 years old, it's time to face the music. Thing is, I think so many times I've gotten past this point, and there is some evidence of that. Because I have progressed somewhat. I'm better than I used to be about it. But then The Universe sends me a test, I still fail. Got serious work to do, on me.

[PaulaQ]

Honey, you didn't fail a test and you aren't transphobic. You just aren't. You kept quiet to preserve your secret. It happens, ok?

[Wildaboutheels]

The NIMBY attitude is alive and well here. You are not alone.

But, it looks to me like YOU are at the tipping point, where you are willing to change your attitude.

Good for you.

[SabrinaMarie]

All this talk about the Elsa dress, where can I get one, plus size 22?

[Kevyn53]

You can point out that in Shakespeare's time all the parts were acted by men and boys. Boys played all the female parts, and well. AND up until after WW2 pink was considered a boys color. It was a lighter shade of red which was masculine.

[missmars]

Understanding crossdresser is too dificult for parallel dresser.

[Princess Grandpa]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2195876/Nils-Pickert-German-father-wears-womens-clothing-solidarity-cross-dressing-year-old-son.html

)

I just now saw this. That man is my hero!

Thank you for sharing it Tinkerbell.
Hug
Rita

[CrossJess]

Some parents really make me angry they are so worried about what others think and how it will make "them look" The question I would of asked to that little boy would by "ok why's that son" because you have to listen to kids, if you cut them dead in the things they wish to do then it will cook up problems later down the line and as the old saying goes "the more you tell someone not to do something the more their going to want to do it" personally I don't see now harm in it, anyway it's like I can say anything lol, if it was my son I would just say "ok that's cool but remember that not everyone will see you the way I see you and you may get some hurtful thing thrown at you" if he takes that on board and still wishes to do it then I'd be fully on board.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Tinkerbell is right on this one, who is to say she feels the way she does because she has some deep burning hatred of trans people? (What are the odds she even knows any trans people?) She may want to protect her son from ridicule and abuse from others. She may want to steer her child toward more "gender conforming" behavior because she is afraid if he continues wearing dresses it will cause him problems later in life (and in all fairness, many trans people do have difficulties in life because of their trans-ness.) I am not saying it would work if he really wanted to dress up (especially if he was a TS), but I can understand why she would not want her son to have to suffer from all the problems he may have because he is "different".

[FemPossible]

I agree. If i had a son I wouldn't want him wearing Elsa's dress either. Anna's outfit has much more depth and would be the better choice in my opinion. *rimshot*

[Samantha Clark]

After all the crusading and recrimination here dies down, I just want to observe that, with all the strong women characters in kids films now and in the future, we can only hope that there will be more boys wanting to wear dresses, that there will be parents ok with that, and that the needle of public acceptance will perceptibly move.

[bimini1]

Wow I had no idea this thread still had some traction. I was just actually thinking about it this past week when another one of the co-workers I eat with actually said the word transvestite right there at the table, and, er, not in a good way. And again, I just did not know what to say. It caught me so off guard just out of the blue she calls some one transvestite. What are the odds a real transvestite was sitting right there across from her? To tell the truth it scared the H-E-double L out of me when she said it. For, I had a couple of days off coming up where I would be dressed at home all day both days and it was ironic that she would say that at that time. Maybe the Universe was talking I do not know but I was certainly taken aback.

I have not heard much more from the other one who made the initial statement. She is pregnant now with 3rd child and I asked did she know the gender yet. Said she was not gonna find out but did go into alot about well everyone else wants to know so they will know what to buy (blue or pink). The other one (the one who said TV) is also preggers and asked me to give a "man's perspective" on why her husband, upon finding out the upcoming baby is a boy, got mad because they had painted the room a soft yellow color. He wants to repaint it in a more masculine color, and she wanted my feeling on it.
I told her I thought it was ridiculous and I am the last one who would come at her with the gender police. I left it at that. So it's funny this thread came back up at this time, must have been that energy in the air as I feel it all to be connected. Life goes on and I am feeling pretty good about myself.

[Alice Torn]

One thing a man, CD or non CD must be aware of. Mothers do not like men telling them what to do with their kids. Even though, the advice is good! Ever hear of bothering a mother bear with her cubs?

[sometimes_miss]

All this talk about the Elsa dress, where can I get one, plus size 22?

That would be ebay. Search for cosplay dresses, there are manufacturers in China that will sew you absolutely anything you want. For a price, of course. Example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Disney-Movie-Frozen-Elsa-Dress-Made-Cosplay-Costume-For-Adult-and-Children-/281307232875?pt=US_Costumes&var=&hash=item417f37ba6b
If you ask, perhaps they can make one just for you, just a little larger than their 3XL if needed? You'll have to send them your measurements (Be generous; I found that the chest, armholes and sleeves were too tight if I gave exact measurments, but then after a few 'mistakes', mine, not theirs, I wound up with exactly what I wanted). If not, there are lots of other ebay merchants out there.



The woman who said it is a great friend. I considered her to be an ally as she has made affirming statements about gays before. But as we all know, to be gay friendly does not add up to being T friendly. Son is 3 going on 4. She also has 5 year old daughter. Now what I probably should have said was what if her daughter wanted to dress up as a male character what would her feeling on that be? May have been the same but I'd wager not.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say she would have been perfecly ok with her daughter emulating a male character. After all, despite it being 2014, both men and women still behave as if male is better than female.
I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT IS.
But both men and women insult men by calling us ladies, wimps, pussies, girls, sissies, etc., and you never see the reverse (even some female coaches denigrate their female players by calling them effeminate terms!). And little girls are still socialized to value getting married and having children as their primary goal in life, even though they are 'allowed' to pursue careers, they're still expected to 'catch' a husband, and if they haven't by age oh, 30, many treat them like they're a failure in life. I work with primarily women, and over and over I still see the worry as they approach the big 3 - OH if they're not engaged or married. It's very, very real. (One woman is currently getting ready to get married to a guy she doesn't love, all because she'll be 30 and 'its time to get married', both she and her family were in a panic when last fiance dumped her at 28, so she's now being pushed into marriage by virtually everyone around her. Her opinion of him? 'Well, he's a nice enough guy. It won't be so bad'. I see a disastrous future for her, yet, have no say in her future; I know that there have been millions of marriages in the past that had no love, no passion, yet both parties went ahead with it and lived out their lives. Yet it bothers me to no end that this woman feels she must do this).
Stay at home moms are not considered great people in history. There are no Nobel prizes for being a great wife and mom, no headlines, no bestsellers about their lives, no hit movies, even no TV shows where the mom is the star for being what EVERYONE ELSE needs her to be for decades on end. So for a parent to see a little boy wanting to be feminine, yes, most parents are going to be concerned, because a female's life is still considered a step downward in status to most of the world.
I'M NOT SAYING IT IS! But that's how most people feel.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Bimini, It sounds like you need to find another place to eat lunch.

[bimini1]

Hi Bimini, It sounds like you need to find another place to eat lunch.

It won't matter. I've concluded that for the most part, the whole place is virulently transphobic. Tired of running from it. Scary part is these are professional people, I would tend to expect a little more from them.