Interesting lunch conversation with co-workers...

[jordyn.wayne]

Went to lunch with a group of my closest co-workers today, sitting at a table nearby was a young "trans-man"... and one of my male counterparts said, 'How do you address somebody like that? Sir, mam, he, she, etc...' I Attempted, to explain that the best way is to considder how they are presenting, and address them as such. If you are confused, ask... they might be offended at first, but theyll apreciate your attention to their feelings. They were all surprised by my particular level of insight into the matter. Except for the one female in the group, that knows about my alterego Jordyn.

[Katey888]

I think that's an excellent example of how to address both the specific question and also to address people's inquisitiveness and unintentional ignorance - nicely done! :)

Does raise another question for me that some folk here might be able to answer: which is if you have someone who deliberately presents as androgynous (and I know there are certainly some here who do...) and is not obviously either, how would they prefer to be addressed?

:)

Katey x

[Ezekiel]

Thats complicated, because you can never know if that person just looks androgynous and is cisgendered, or is actually bigender, genderqueer, agender etc

I've heard the term they or ze is used when its a case of agenderism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genderqueer

[Zylia]

In my personal experience transmen have very high 'stealth' levels (especially they're young) so I'm kind of surprised you actually spotted him from a distance/at a table nearby, but I guess it's not impossible. Good explanation though. With more transgender individuals entering the 'mainstream' world, it's not totally weird that some people educate themselves about these kind of things.

@Katey888 Simple answer: ask them. Personal preference is personal preference.

[Eryn]

Does raise another question for me that some folk here might be able to answer: which is if you have someone who deliberately presents as androgynous (and I know there are certainly some here who do...) and is not obviously either, how would they prefer to be addressed?

If they are trying to be androgynous then they are stuck with whatever I choose to call them. If they don't like it they will correct me.

I'm certainly not going to use "it" and the use of pronouns like "hir" depends upon the person whom I'm addressing. I'm just as likely to cause offense or confusion as not. Of course, if I know a name that's a perfect way to refer to that person.

I present somewhat androgynously at times and it's always a pleasant thing to get a "ma'am" now and then!

[Kate Simmons]

If I know the person, I Usually just use their name. Otherwise I don't offer salutations or pronouns. I use them on the Forum for the sake of simplicity.:)

[Krisi]

You make your best guess and if it's wrong they will correct you.

You won't be the first person to guess wrong. Some people do this just to make others uncomfortable. A person who wanted others to know their gender would make it obvious by the choice of clothing, hairstyle, jewelry, etc.

[mechamoose]

Does raise another question for me that some folk here might be able to answer: which is if you have someone who deliberately presents as androgynous (and I know there are certainly some here who do...) and is not obviously either, how would they prefer to be addressed?

I expect 'Sir' because of the beard. When out in 'femme' mode (still with a beard) I *eat up* 'Hon', 'Dear', etc.

Since I don't expect the average person to know a thing about gender pronouns like 'Sie', I score those as a win.

- MM

[Allison Quinn]

One of my friends is agendered I just use neutral pronouns with them :) I asked them as well and they didn't mind at all. I don't use the zir or whatever I just say they or refer to them by name and it's always worked out and not been offensive n_n

[mechamoose]

...and mostly from women. Men don't seem to get it. (Not news, right?)

[Beverley Sims]

I am always careful replying to questions like this as it is easy to inadvertently out ones self.