Constructive criticism vs renforcement

[mechamoose]

I have now commented in a few threads which started "How do I look in...?" My replies have been along the lines of '(this) looks good, but (that) doesn't quite work'.

Most of the *other* replies are more or less "You look great!!!"

I feel like I'm the *only* one giving any constructive criticism. I know that we are all in a sensitive place, exposing ourselves to something that could blow up in our faces... but in here? We can and should feel safe.

While I don't ever want to tear anyone down, I also don't want to dismiss the request as just looking for a positive comment.

Why don't I see more critical comments on outfits and presentation?

- MM

[Rachelakld]

I also add "why blue eye shadow" or the "grey tights"? - my 2 pet hates that reminds me of the early 80's.

I do prefer the multi outfit options, where we can "prefer" one look over the other as hypersensitivity is the norm in this decade, across all aspects of our society.

[Kate Simmons]

Personally I don't tell someone they look good unless I feel they actually do. If I feel I need to offer some constructive comments I normally use the PM feature.:)

[Deedee Skyblue]

Check out Jenniferathome, as one example of someone who consistently offers constructive criticism.

Deedee

[Krisi]

"Honesty" is not really the best policy. I don't usually comment on photos unless someone looks really good (to me). Telling someone they look lovely when in fact they could be read by Ray Charles doesn't help them one bit and actually hurts their chances of doing better.

Telling everyone they look lovely ups your post count but does little else.

BTW: I suspect some of these photos are actually of GGs, not the poster.

[Anna H]

I feel if someone wants a critique, they'll usually make it known.

(Critique being different from outright criticism...)

Many of us...myself included...are just trying to participate. Just
a few kind words acknowledging our attempts are often enough to make
our day. We know we're not passing...or even trying.

It's a massively Huge deal for some of us...many!...to even post any picture
at all. We just want to be a part of what's going on.

When someone says "how am I doing?" I'll usually add my opinion. Most
times it's pretty clear what resources they have to work with, and
I'll comment accordingly. A Nice goodwill find for $5 vs a $1000 pair of
shoes may be worthy of the same "They look Great!"

Supporting each other is pretty important, I think. Regardless of how
much time and $$$$ someone can put into what we do.

I also do appreciate the advice given to me. It's always been with
a feeling of kindness and support. :happy:

[sanderlay]

For me... It's easier to give advise from what I do, the clothes that I like for my body, as compared to more direct comments. I'm not a fashion expert... just a CD who likes women's clothing.

The story "The Emperor's New Clothes" by Hans Christian Andersen (1837) is a story I remember of being different from what society expected for clothing, in this case invisible clothing, and how others reacted to their Emperor. Would they say to his face what they thought? Were they afraid of what might happen to them if they were truthful? Or did they think this was a new fashion trend?

[Wildaboutheels]

On the rare occasion where I think someone is actually OPEN for constructive input OR conversation on a Forum matter, I prefer to PM them. Plus I have absolutely ZERO experience with probably 95% of what most here go through so who am I to offer advice?

And I concur with you completely. I see way too much sugar coating and I don't think it helps anyone.

But ...most Humans are happiest when rowing with others. It's just Human Nature and nothing more.

[Allison Quinn]

I noticed that too with the few threads I posted there :P
I got a few things but the majority of the comments are like you said the generic "good job" ones

I'm terrible at giving that kind of criticism so I just don't post there often as the you look good posts are usually covered right away xD

but yes if someone is asking for you to be honest please do so, it is more harmful to just say nothing.

[mechamoose]

But.. but...

The person is asking "How do I look?"

They were brave enough to take a pic and post it.. a big deal. They are exposing themselves in front of a 'safe' audience... but there is still that feeling of risk.

Why is there a tendency to dismiss that as just wanting happy answers? In here they get people who *understand* as an audience, why *wouldn't* they want honest feedback?

- MM

[michellekhoo]

Fine line this one. A lot of people on here will be posting photos for the first time and will be feeling self-concious so its important to be prescient of that. Its hard to establish whether people are looking for "Go Gurl!" encouragement or "Meah, not sure about the shoes honey" Always good to sandwich critisism inbetween compliments

[Erica Grace]

As someone who posts "you look great!" a fair amount, I'm doing so just to be supportive and give a compliment even though a lot of others do that too. I'm new to this whole dressing up thing and am also unfortunately a bit colorblind...so criticism from me (or other new girls) just wouldn't make sense. I don't really know much at all and I am here to learn. Just looking for both advice and encouragement and I feel like a large majority of us are too.

I offer what I'm better at, support :)

[Melissa in SE Tn]

I only reply when the spirits tell me to critique . More than just being a cheerleader, I have taken mental notes of those girls who are making progress in their cd evolution. If you get a reply or pm from me, it usually means that I have recognized your work , applaud your efforts & encourage you to grow in that inner peace. Your recognition from me is genuine & heart felt.

[Eryn]

It is possible to offer constructive criticism without being negative. When given alternatives, talk about the better one. If something doesn't look right suggest a way to make it look better.

The fact is, most people who do post pictures look pretty good in them. They are having fun and sharing it with us. We may not all be supermodels, but we do pretty darned well considering our starting point!

[Jenniferathome]

Honesty will set you free. Honesty may be harsh at times, but it is never cruel. Writing,"You look great," when in fact they do not is not support, it's false hope and sets someone up for failure. If criticism is accepted in the spirit it is given, it can only be positive.

[mechamoose]

I love all the replies, but I think my point is being missed.

Of all the posts I have seen here, MOST of the replies are 'you look great'.

If the poster doesn't say "honest replies only", how do you tell?

It seems the default response is a reinforcing one... there are lots of people here who have stories of things that *didn't* work or things that plainly 'gave you away'. Why aren't we seeing more of those?

- MM

[S. Lisa Smith]

If I am going to post, it will be something positive. If I don't have something positive to say, I don't post a comment. If I think there may be a way to improve someone's look, I will PM her and make my suggestion. As others have said in this thread, it's all in the way you make your comment...

[Jenniferathome]

MM, you do not have to be a lemming. You can share your thoughts and opinions regardless of whether the posters asks for comment. That's the freedom of this forum.

[mechamoose]

I know that. I'm just wondering why those comments are private? Why aren't those up in our public spaces for others to benefit from?

[Allison Quinn]

The PMs I can understand c: It is personal and more comfortable to be talked about in PM it is also easier than checking a forum that may or may not get buried by other threads :P

[Marcelle]

Hi MM,

When I post a picture looking for feedback either on my make-up or a look I always state "Honest opinion please". If I don't see that in the subject line I will provide constructive criticism without being harsh. You can be honest without tearing a person apart. I do add a lot of "looks good" but that is to help bolster a person's confidence. Posting a picture of yourself is not an easy thing . . . so I try to take into account just because someone posts a picture, they may not be looking for an honest opinion just a bit of support to help them along the way.

Hugs

Isha

[Persephone]

I frequently post positive comments, but only when I feel that the photo makes them appear justified. When some particular item jars me and the OP has asked for opinions I will post a comment about what I see that might be changed. If I don't like what I see, or if I am just not in the mood, I will not comment at all.

On the other hand, my own post, An 8-day Week (click here) (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?211512-An-8-day-Week&highlight=) has drawn 435 reads to date and only 6 replies.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Anna H]

I think the majority of us aren't going out. It may do no good to tell them
they need a different dress or finer shoes. Lots just want to participate
and add what little bit they can with what they have. Having a fine, $$$$
wardrobe is pointless for many who have to stay indoors.

They may just want to add themselves in with the rest of us. To simply
be a part of what we have going on here.

Posting pictures can be as exciting as getting out for some of us. We're
sharing our best kept secrets with our sisters. A kick in the ass can be
dis-heartening to some. It may not be intended that way...but one never
knows how a few words in a forum will come across.

This includes myself. I won't pass. I can't go out. I don't have the best
or coordinating clothes. I just want to show myself and be one of us.
I don't care that my pictures are mediocre. I don't think my friends care
much either. I may be at the best I'll ever get.

A simple "you look Nice" is an acknowledgment that I'm accepted. It's
plenty good enough for many of us. It proves we are a part of things.

No replies. Now that's disappointing.

[mechamoose]

I think the majority of us aren't going out. It may do no good to tell them
they need a different dress or finer shoes. Lots just want to participate
and add what little bit they can with what they have.

Ok, I hadn't looked at it that way.

That makes sense.

Thank you.

- MM

[Jenniferathome]

but Kate, even though you choose to stay inside, don't you want pointers on improving anyway? Is that also not recognition that you are accepted? Someone who actually goes out of their way to help, to me, is far more accepting or caring than a cheerleader.

[Rachael Leigh]

I try and be positive about my comments to others as well, if I see someone who doesn't present well I usually don't comment.
Now for me I do like the positive comments but do appreciate any ideas that can be given for improvement.
Now I'm not one who really goes out but if I did would like to know I'm not just a guy in a dress.

[GretchenJ]

Hi MM

That is a great question, and as others has stated, you know from the OP whether constructive criticism is requested or not. Me personally, I always looks for honest critiques as this is how I learn. I have received comments either directly or by PM by several people who have responded to this thread. I am very grateful for this valuable information.

But I will never, ever over a criticism, without telling someone the positives first in their appearance and try to offer an alternative to the criticism. Using this approach , I am always honest in my replies

[Julie Gaum]

Much more difficult to answer than the on-the-surface request for honesty, be critical, and the like. Moose, we aren't living in a perfect world or a perfect Forum. A few sisters are right on to say that the request is really for support on the road of progress and the poster really doesn't want more than that and so the PM route is the safest bet. Why? We really don't know what those fairly new to the CD scene expect --- we can only guess. With that said, sure there are too many "Way to go girl" because of lack of insight that most of us lack in the absence of personally knowing that CD seeking advice --- we can only guess and be wrong most of the time so if you have the talent to temper criticism with kindness go for it. An example of the problem: some members are happy cross dressing sans makeup or wig and with considerable facial hair and they are in their rights --- no only one way to present. These same happy campers send a picture hoping for kind remarks --- what to do? Support their inclinations the best you can though others will think that you're posting merely to add to your count. Jenn, you're right but Moose really is looking for MODERATION to a touchy and no one answer subject. Make our sisters happy no matter what (and PM when in doubt)
Julie

[Anna H]

but Kate, even though you choose to stay inside, don't you want pointers on improving anyway? Is that also not recognition that you are accepted? Someone who actually goes out of their way to help, to me, is far more accepting or caring than a cheerleader.

I'm Ok with any advice and it's always appreciated. But I was new not 6 months ago
and I honestly didn't know how to take it. I felt I needed to go buy better things.
To buy a better camera. Nicer shoes. Stand a certain way. Get correct lighting.

Honestly...and truthfully...;)...I felt like I wasn't quite "good enough"

I removed all my pictures from a few places a few times and felt like giving up.
At least until I had myself in order and made a better presentation.

There, it began to be less fun, and more of a club that I needed to do certain things
in certain ways before I would fit in.

I've been here awhile, though, and have forced myself to participate...though I
was quite a Fraidy-Kate...so I know it's well intended here. It's Not in some
places. There are some mean girls out there. I've had remarks from a few of them.

I do understand those of us who mean well, but newcomers to this world may need
time to adjust...and they should feel supported with as little judgement as possible.

It's a tricky thing to give too much advice too soon. It can create expectations
that aren't at all intended.

Again, I'm good and OK with whatever someone offers to me. I'm gotten used
to it....though it did take me awhile. :happy: ♥

[Babbs]

I for one apprciate constructive criticism. Been dressing a few years privately in my basement but one goal is to go out in public and be passable. Posted my basement pics which I thought were sexy and pretty but realized much work needed to go out in public per criticism I happily received. Went out recently and was happy I didn't dress too "****ty" for lack of a better word. Also matched clothes better, wore proper jewelry, etc... See example below...1. GG's don't wear two bracelets....2. silver spiked heels with a black dress, come'on gurl...Dress way to short... Well you get the point

[Krisi]

OK, Madame Moose, you asked for it so here it comes:

The dress is great, your pose is very feminine, but I would try to do something with the antlers, they detract from your presentation!

[mechamoose]

OK, Madame Moose, you asked for it so here it comes:

The dress is great, your pose is very feminine, but I would try to do something with the antlers, they detract from your presentation!

Awesome :)

- MM

[michellekhoo]

Never be afraid to rock the **** look! You have that cleavage thing going ON Babbs! And Im with Krisi on the antlers.


I for one apprciate constructive criticism. Been dressing a few years privately in my basement but one goal is to go out in public and be passable. Posted my basement pics which I thought were sexy and pretty but realized much work needed to go out in public per criticism I happily received. Went out recently and was happy I didn't dress too "****ty" for lack of a better word. Also matched clothes better, wore proper jewelry, etc... See example below...1. GG's don't wear two bracelets....2. silver spiked heels with a black dress, come'on gurl...Dress way to short... Well you get the point

[Krististeph]

What an excellent post! Super! <evil grin>

I will sometimes make constructive comments- there is an art to it though- making a substantial comment yet not hurting anyone's feelings. I think we are all aware here that our feminine image is more tenuous than the typical GG, and we are compensating for that.

I agree with you, make no mistake, but even if I see something I may be hesitant to comment for the reason that I may have seen this in myself, or my pictures as well, and I feel a little hypocritical if i mention it.

I also have to say that even when i have asked for comments- the comments i got were positive and constructive- but i did have that initial opposition to it- "how could I be doing anything wrong" or "I'm not perfect?"... yes, the old ego is a fairly fragile one, that's probably one of my biggest overall hurdles in crossdressing- getting over the fact i will never look like a GG.

But I'll give you some constructive criticism regarding your avatar picture- you should some mousse on your antlers- they are sticking out all helter skelter!. :-)

All kidding aside, you bring up a good point, but realize most of us here would rather err on the side of politeness, and i am thankful for that in all the pictures i've posted!

Kristi

[MsVal]

I've raised a few kids, some of them female, all of them went through the "sensitive" years. What I've learned about making positive corrections is helpful in so many places.

When people post pictures I realize that they are working within limits, some of which I know, others I do not. They are also putting a little of their ego on the line each time they post. I make an assumption that everyone that posts a picture wants to look as good as their limits permit, and bruising their ego is counter productive.

If I choose to comment on a picture, I will lead off with compliments, point out things that could be better, and simple ways to correct those things.

As a neophyte, I don't feel comfortable offering suggestions involving style. I do know a tiny bit about photography though, and I will offer low-or-zero cost ways to improve the photograph. These usually involve the pose, composition, and lighting.

E.g. "... You have a beautiful dog in the background that is competing with you for the viewer's attention. I recommend either making the dog a part of your presentation or leaving it out of future photos."

Best wishes
MsVal

[Leslie Langford]

Honesty will set you free. Honesty may be harsh at times, but it is never cruel. Writing,"You look great," when in fact they do not is not support, it's false hope and sets someone up for failure. If criticism is accepted in the spirit it is given, it can only be positive.

I'm all for honesty and transparency myself, and don't have a whole lot of use for @ss-kissing, undeserved flattery, or B.S. in general. I also appreciate honest and well-meaning constructive criticism, even if the truth sometimes hurts.

That said, one doesn't have to be a d*ck about it along the lines of a Donald Trump, Simon Cowell, Gordon Ramsay, or even a Kevin O'Leary of "Shark Tank". I realize that much of this bravado is likely contrived and done to fire up the audiences, as well as in the name of ratings - much like all the posturing and "trash talk" that goes on in professional wrestling.

The problem is that this is just one more symptom of the "dumbing down" of our society in general, as well as the culture of "meanness" that has been fostered by all the social media that we have access to these days. The ability to spew our venom anonymously and without accountability in this way has become an endemic problem. Between all the narcissists and shameless self-promoters as well as the "haters" out there, we are all losing our humanity bit by bit...

[Stephanie47]

Considering many of us are married to GG's we may be conditioned to keep our mouth's shut unless strongly encouraged to express an opinion. There are very few on this site who truly are 100% passable and close to it. I think most of the participants are aware of their limitations. I will comment in a positive way when I feel the person either looks extremely passable or the outfit is really terrific. There have been postings of outfit suitable for a teenager worn by an older statesman who is not at all passable. I've seen many posts where the has been discord because some will rise to the defense of such an ill dressed person. "Each to his own" I guess. I think the person posting a picture can gauge the reaction by the number and content of the postings.

[Tracii G]

I got my share of criticism when I first started posting pics and I needed it to be honest.
Truthful and honest and sometimes harsh comments did help but it hurt the ego quite a bit.
Would I change the comments I got heck no it helped me grow and learn.
Receiving them in PM form was better than getting ripped in the forum in front of everyone and I respected the person for doing it via PM.
I try to be honest in my comments but may make a suggestion that may help.If they listen fine if they don't thats fine too.
Its all about support for your sisters.

[Beverley Sims]

Maybe you haven't seen any of my comments.

[Hell on Heels]

If the person has asked for comments or suggestions on how to improve, have at it.
If they are just posting a pic to let us know they part of the community, I think it best
to PM them and ask if they are accepting to any type of critique, wait for a reply, if they say yes, go for it.
Unless you know the person well enough that you are commenting about, if you just put your opinion out there
and point out the shortcomings in front of the whole forum, you never know exactly how someone may react, they
may perceive the offered critique as negativity, or be offended.
I know thats not the intent of those that that are not afraid to speak their minds, I just think we need to be
careful, there are some fragile minds out there in the world.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Lorileah]

BTW: I suspect some of these photos are actually of GGs, not the poster.

if you see that you need to report it, it is against forum rules

[Zylia]

Because most people don't explicitily ask for constructive criticism, so they're not going to get it. Forum rules, man.