A fox in the henhouse

[mechamoose]

I have really enjoyed my time here. You are a bunch of wonderful people. You have been open and accepting, and I have never gotten a single negative comment.

It seems to me that the majority of you are or want to be full time girls. That is awesome. I respect you and see that you have a TON of courage for putting yourselves out that way. That takes a lot of 'balls'.

I'm not quite where most of your seem to be. (Big surprise, right?) I'm not a guy, I'm not a girl, I'm something in between. Role-wise, I identify as female. Body-wise, I'm beast who does martial arts and mountain biking and enjoys getting roughed up & sweaty.

I see a bunch of folks here who are just coming out or just discovering their issues with gender norms and identity. Some have freedom to express themselves, some have to hide.

So, where do I fit here?

I'm questioning the feeling that I get that the default aim is to transition or pass. That "being a girl" is the goal. Why is that? Why isn't there something in between? The site name is 'crossdressers.com', not 'iwannabeagirl.com'. Isn't this place about validation and exploring how we see our identities? About how we appreciate and enjoy being pretty, which happens to work against our natural gender presentation?

Is it purely a population issue? Am I so much in a minority that most of you don't understand where I am? I have to wonder if there isn't a segment of our folks who might be in my position who get pushed in one direction or another based on the social pressure to present as a girl?

Like I said, I have never recieved a single negative comment from any of you. Having said that, I feel disconnected from a lot of you, that my posts are just 'noise' in the pink fog.

I *am* a crossdresser. I wear girl stuff every day. When I get home from work I bail out of my guy gear and put on a skirt and cami because it *feels right*.

>confused<

I'm feeling kind of isolated, and I don't think I *should* be, especially here.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

<3

-MM

[Rachael Leigh]

With this aspect of ourselves we all question what, why, how. I do all the time. I still can't believe I ever even joined this group. I never wanted others to see Leigh and just wanted it private, it is still that way in a lot of ways but there is just something about the folks here that help me feel better, like I'm not this crazy person who dresses in strange clothes.
I still doubt I will ever understand why I enjoy dressing and all the other things I do that is considered a girls thing.
So here I am and most likely will stay

[paulawilder]

I've been in and out of feeling good about being somewhere between male and female for years. Whenever I can, I dress female and I'm much happier. When I can't, I seem to fall into depression or mood swings. Being female is good for my soul and my psyche, even though it's dress up and not gender change. I'm happy being male, who has a female side. It's the best for me, so you are definitely not alone! Smile, and enjoy the company of your sisters!

[Anna H]

You're fitting in Nicely! We're every-single-one different.

You raise Great points and make Great posts!

Don't let the "standard" fog get to ya! That's for the regular peoples...lol!

:)

[Michelle789]

Where ever you are on the CD spectrum is okay. We're all welcome here :)

I don't think a majority here are full-time girls or want to be full-time girl. Many here are closet CDs and many here only underdress or partially dress. There are a lot who fully dress privately, and there are those who fully dress and go out en femme. Those who wish to be girls full-time are transsexuals, not cross-dressers, and there are a few of us here. Some of us here are TS and don't know yet or are still fighting it.

Those of us who try to pass in public get more attention here, and we tend to be more vocal, and post more pics of ourselves. Trust me there are plenty of CDs who don't try to pass publicly and like to dress either partially or fully at home, and it's okay to do that. It's okay to be a cross-dresser. You're not alone.

Now me personally I am a TS and am probably going to transition, and we're the minority here. But you're not in the minority being a closet CD - there are still plenty here on this forum, I promise :)

[sunnysideup]

Mecha, I really appreciate your post. As a SO to a CD (I just found out recently), I have been trying to research so I can better understand my boyfriend. When I found these forums, I was ecstatic- a place for me to learn and grow so I can be as supportive of my man as I can be, woo hoo! Throughout my browsing of the forums (well, the parts I can see, anyway...my post count is really low, as I'm trying to only give quality input in my posts) I have too noticed this trend. I don't believe it to be a bad thing at all; I am a sociology major and I am very knowledgeable and accepting (if I do say so myself) of people, including the entire LGBT community, no matter what "level" of the spectrum an individual happens to identify with. After all, we are all human beings and we ALL deserve that respect.

As far as how you feel about your "place" here on the forums, I can see why you feel that way...it does seem that many of the more active posters are maybe in a different "level" of the spectrum than what you feel you identify with. I can't answer as to why that may be... perhaps, even in this day and age, people who feel they belong to "two" genders are still feeling like they need to isolate and hide. It's becoming more "accepted" (and I use that term loosely, as our society has a LONG way to go) to come out as gay, bi, trans...maybe those who feel they are just sort of in the middle don't feel they will be accepted by anyone, even inside the more open communities, such as LGBT. Before I found this site I also noticed that crossdressers aren't necessarily always seen in a positive light by the LGBT community, even...but of course, the same could be said of any sort of identity in any sort of social community...there are always "bad seeds" who just will never be happy, resorting to resenting and admonishing others to try to make themselves feel better. But I digress...I hope some others have some thought provoking opinions and information, because now I'm curious, too!

[Robin777]

Mechamoose,

I just want to say that you are welcome here. I am somewhat like you,I like to come home from work and most nights I like to dress. for me it is a stress reliever.

I don't think everyone's ultimate goal here is to transition or pass. I joined so I could get a better understanding why I do this. Plus to be somewhere where there is more people like me. I also do not believe what you have to share is lost in a pink fog. I believe everyone's voice is heard here.

[mechamoose]

I'm a flagrant, shameless pansexual. I got introduced to the LGBT community WAY before I discovered that I was female inside.

'accepted' is *wonderful*. You have all been that. /hug

*understood*? Kindred spirits? That is different.

I'm wondering how much you/we/us *suppress* those who walk between the lines?

[Wildaboutheels]

"Looks" along with the "flavor" of "most" of the posts here... can be quite deceiving.

What you "see" here [at this MtF anyway] only tells a small piece of the story.

I think the real story is in the "hard data" [and not people's opinions] that this site provides and I believe they do it for a reason.

It might not be a "cure" for what ails you. And you might have already noted it?

There is all kinds of #s down at the bottom of ANY page...

Click on the word Forum under the pink and blue Logo and then click on MtF. At the bottom of that page, you will see total# viewing the entire MtF Forum as well as ratio of members/guests. At different times of the day that # AND ratio can change dramatically for a number of reasons. At any given time, just one thread of the MtF can have 10 to 15 folks viewing, many of them members not signed in for varying reasons. And of course some members do ALL of their surfing and posting cloaked but they are pretty easy to "figure out" if you look at the same info at the bottom of any particular thread. You will also notice that some folks refuse to be the first to respond and some folks rarely post but do a lot of reading based on how long they stay at a thread.

The way those #s fluctuate and change along with views to a PARTICULAR thread [regardless of # of responses] give a more accurate picture. I think at least half ARE like you but choose to keep quiet because...

"Why Rock the Boat"?

"Fitting in" and wanting to be accepted is simply Human Nature.

So I say post away. SOME will [and do] read what you have to say and some will be able to use it.

Those with open minds anyway.

[sunnysideup]

Great points, mecha. The first thing that comes to my mind is society as a whole is very suppressive...look at our gendered restrooms! Pick a side, any side, but it'd better be the "correct" side *eyeroll*. I know in California there are laws that protect against this; if you use the restroom that you are presenting yourself to be, then you can't get into trouble. Still...I don't like the whole idea of it. I have had the inherent privilege since birth of being born a female, so you're right, I personally do not understand the struggles that people in this community have to face day to day. I can go to school, work, in public, wherever and just use the restroom...it's something I don't even have to think about anymore. But for someone who can't do that, for the fear of being judged or shamed, or even worse...GETTING IN TROUBLE for doing something that we ALL must do...use the restroom! Of course, this is just one example of how our society likes to shove us into these perfect little boxes...and there are less apparent situations that occur every day, like simple interactions with the public at the bank, store, wherever. I'd imagine that not EVERYONE means to suppress and turn against those that seem "different" to them...it might just be the very shock of seeing someone or something that they have not been socialized to. But again, there are always those trolls, those "bad seeds" who want to keep shoving us into the boxes...their way, or the highway, nothing else is correct! It makes me sad :(

[mechamoose]

Great points, mecha. The first thing that comes to my mind is society as a whole is very suppressive...

Thank you, but I'm not asking about "society as a whole", I'm asking about *US*, *HERE*.

I have had friends beaten up for being 'fairy'. I get that risk.

I want to understand why I feel like one of only a few who are a 'dude in a dress'.

Why is that odd?

[suchacutie]

I have to admit that you seem to fit in here perfectly. I've been here for a while and even though many talk about their girl sides, very few will or want to transition. Those of us who don't ever plan to lose that male part of us (which I really feel is the majority) enjoy hearing about those who are because it better helps each of us to move forward in whichever way we want. I really like my girl side, Tina, but she'll never be my whole life.

Thanks for this thread as it's good for well of us to keep perspective and to see how our words are interpreted.

[mechamoose]

Then please suchacutie..

SPEAK UP!

I don't have many confidence issues, and *I* have been feeling like an outcast. How do you think those of us who have doubts are reacting?

This place isn't (and shouldn't be) all about passing as a girl.

<3

- MM

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Mechamoose, imagine being a SO of a crossdresser here, especially when you're not so in love with this side of your husband. When I first read here, I thought I'd found the wrong place! Almost everyone writes like they're one dress away from transitioning. If it wasn't for the lovely members who've messaged me and shared their stories, I'd never know there were other men here like my H. Here, he's even more of a minority than you. He doesn't identify as female AT ALL. He just likes to present as one occasionally, but he's still the same person.

Funny thing is, I've since realised that he is in the majority almost everywhere else. Perhaps this forum just attracts those further along the spectrum because it doesn't allow all the fantasy/sex stuff? Believe me, when you get into that area, the number of men fessing up to this proclivity is astounding, lol

Anyway, you're not the only one who's noticed this, but you're definitely not the only one like you here :)

[Anna H]

I don't get the impression that the majority here are at the
borders of transitioning. I think most are very aware of the reality
of what we're doing.

It's fun to talk about it and some may get the impression that it's
all we ever think about, but it's a thing that comes and goes for lots
of us. There are a few threads right now about the general lack
of interest in dressing up "full throttle".

Some will always be in the so-called "pink fog" and some will always
be getting over it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something? I think there are very, very
few of us thinking of transitioning?

[sanderlay]

MM,

I do understand what you mean and I feel it as well. But I have felt a change in society, in especially the younger crowd, of those who ignore binary thinking as it relates to gender expression. So I feel more acceptance coming as a society with the younger crowd leading the way. Some embrace an androgynous look which is similar to what I'm trying to achieve.

As far as myself relates here I'm not a stereotypical CD either. I'm not trying to look female and pass. I'm not TS because I have not modified my body or plan to. I do fit under the TG umbrella. But because I have a male body and I wear female clothes society calls me a CD. Which means I am CD but just not one that needs to pass as female. Again I believe this relates to binary thinking which is hard to let go of.

As far as this forum goes I post where I can give some input as it relates to my life. Sure... some of our goals are different. But we do share some things in common, like putting on female clothes, feeling those stares as we go out side, tolerance issues, respect issues, etc... And I am leaving out GD, gender dysphoria, which we mostly share in common, but perhaps not all.

Perhaps some don't feel this is the right path for them, even though they may feel the same. They want a better way to blend in. I totally understand that. Each of us has to walk our own path and find out what is best for themselves, their life. None of us knows all the answers. All I ask for is tolerance and respect for each other as we all walk our own individual paths, all of us are humans.

[Stephanie Voorhees]

MM,

I know exactly where you're coming from. I rarely post here because I feel I don't fit in. My femme side is practically non existant. I'm a guy. I like being a guy. I like doing guy things. I just happen to like women's clothes. Not because they make me feel girly or pretty, but because I like them. Why I prefer women's clothes over men's clothes, I have no clue. I have a beard which I refuse to shave, I don't pluck my eyebrows, hell, I rarely even wear makeup (I do shave my legs though). I guess you could call me the stereotypical "dude in a dress" and you would be right in doing so. I have a feeling though that there are more people here like me that are "lurking in the shadows" like I mostly do. I hope this helps somewhat.

[Wildaboutheels]

One can choose to ignore the #s here. One can choose to ignore the P&V gallery here and what keeps it afloat. One can choose to not EVER visit any profiles.

It's kinda hard to miss noticing "handles" or names. They are almost always a dead giveaway.

They CAN BE just clothes to some regardless of the oft repeated FORUM MYTH that "It's never just about the clothes".

And the REALITY of this site is that with very few exceptions, almost all here went through the O phase. Or are still in it. Which is where they very likely became "addicted". Our brains simply are not going to let men break that "association".

[tfguy]

Perhaps this forum just attracts those further along the spectrum because it doesn't allow all the fantasy/sex stuff? Believe me, when you get into that area, the number of men fessing up to this proclivity is astounding, lol

I am a guy that is sexually attracted to female clothing, especially lingerie, hose, maid outfits, corsets, etc. I was/am ashamed of it and my wife is no fan, but I do think/hope with some more time (she learned about a year ago) she will come around. In the meantime, I was told not to bring it up and to give her time and every time it comes up the clock until she can be accepting of it seems to restart. Since I love her tremendously, she is the love of my life and an amazing person, I do my best to respect her wishes, including not dressing, which I have abided by since she learned of my proclivity, prior to that I very rarely dressed out of shame - maybe three times in 6 years, when the urge returned after an ~8 year period without the urge). Anyway, the point of this post is that Mechamoose, I can relate to your feeling of being in the minority here and its isolating effects. I lurk and read the portions that apply/interest me. Despite the minority of my position I still appreciate this site, it is like no other. Also, Tinkerbell GG thanks for mentioning how common you think it is.

Best wishes to all.

[Millie.Graham]

Mecha,

Even though I am only a couple of days into my membership. I have been reading here for a few months. I have never found you to be a minority or out of place. I have enjoyed reading your input. I am still trying to figure out where I lay on the TG spectrum, there are a couple of things I have figured out. I know transition is not on my roadmap, that just isn't who I am and we all definitely fall somewhere on a very large spectrum. I can't relate to everybody on every issue, but I definitely have been learning and becoming more comfortable with myself as I learn that there are others who share some of the same experiences and thoughts that I do.

I think you fit in nicely here.

-Millie

[jaleecd]

MM
I have been on this site for many years, logging in daily, and enjoying the people who bring their vision of this urge. I have seen many come and go, some that were asked to not come back, some who transisitioned and felt they had no more use for this group, and a vast majority who like me wear various items of femme garb, mostly under my male clothes. I am in my seventys, about six foot tall, and tip the scales at 235#s. the world is not ready to see a tall pregnant granny, so I have no desire to go public with my dressing activietys. I do know that there are many of us on this site, but are very quiet about themselves and their activietys.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Tfguy, as a sexual act, I've heard as high as 10% of men enjoy some level of CDing. I assume those who are trans is much lower, but sexually it's apparently very common and I personally believe it! As a mom, and with access to the ear of other moms and their kids, I can say that the amount of boys in my small group alone who are caught dressing in moms/sisters/cousins clothing is staggering. I'm realising this is a fairly natural curiosity for many boys. I'm not surprised - our clothing is lovely and still off limits to boys which surely makes them more appealing? They're also one of the obvious ways boys get to feel close to women until they're grown enough for real women.

Anyway, that's just a mom observation. As a wife, I still struggle like your wife does, but I'm still married and I still love him so I think it's possible to live with something you don't love about another person if you can figure out boundaries, communication etc. And despite being a minority here, I have found good help with all this. I'm feeling far more positive about my marriage than before I joined :)

And check out Dan Savage if you want confirmation that your 'kink' is actually pretty ordinary, lol

[trisha kobichenko]

hi,
at the risk of being viewed as flippant, you need to relax. I am probably smack dab in the middle of the gender ID scale...teach martial arts, present as male to the world, love riding my v-twin every chance I get, and dress whenever I can. I love dressing up, so you are not the Lone Ranger here. The key for me was realizing who I am and accepting it, regardless of others opinions of whether that is appropriate or not.
Hugs,
Trish

[Rianna Humble]

It seems to me that the majority of you are or want to be full time girls.

Hi MM, are you sure that your point of view hasn't been skewed by the number of threads you have joined recently in the Transsexual Forum?

You are welcome to post wherever you want, but it is true that you will probably find a majority of members in that forum who are either TS or TS questioning.

My experience of the MtF forum has always seemed to be that most of the members were more like you, changing into some women's clothing perhaps at the end of the day or maybe some other time but for the enjoyment not because they want to be or are in fact a woman.

Of course, in any population, you will find differences and I know that there are some here who like to take what they see as a kind of fantasy that little bit further and spend time going out and about dressed just as I know there are large numbers who wouldn't ever dream of stepping outside the house in women's clothing.

[Jenny Elwood]

MM if you were wondering if you are whacky enough to fit in with this bunch, I am happy to give you the assurance that you are! Now please don't use any of that martial-arts on me as I suppose I'm your opposite: role wise I am male and happy to be that, but body-wise not into all that "beastly" stuff you talk about.

[Katey888]

Hey MM - I suspect all of us feel isolated form time to time... It may not be anything to do with the forum - some of it may just be the nature of people?

You say that you feel the default here is "to transition or pass.." - I don't see that as a default, but I can understand how that might come across in the way folk post and the subject matters we have here - I think I understand what you're getting at, and yes, it may mean you're in one minority here, but the fact is we are a very fragmented community in what passes for our patterns of behaviour and core needs. What underlies your frustration at not seeing more interaction from DiDs (if I may be permitted) is probably partly to do with the way DiDs present, and from your perspective, you may also be in another minority as pansexual - each time we add one of our own individual elements of uniqueness, the group we could directly associate with becomes naturally smaller.

But it shouldn't mean you're excluded from having relevant opinions, views, perspectives on CD as a whole - goodness, we're such a minority in the global population we need every fragment we can muster! Probably the majority here - if there is one - falls into Wild's observation (Wild'll love me saying this I'm sure...:)) - it's mainly about clothes and closely related to the sexual fantasies we may have had earlier in our CD development. Some of us move forward from that, for all sorts of reasons, but that low-level (my definition, nor meant as a pejorative) CD is not heavily discussed here because, frankly, there's not much to discuss! :eek: Moving on from that (rapidly), for me the next broad level of development is the closeted CDs, somewhat like myself - this is where you get more interaction, simply because the nature of what is practiced becomes more visual, more interactive - and it's easy to be closeted and still talk about this. I could go on but probably shouldn't... :)

Bottom line: You may be in a minority that isn't vocal for lots of good reasons, but that shouldn't stop you posting here, raising your discussion points, sharing what you can share and providing a point of education for those of us who want to understand you and others and everyone, but haven't had the exposure to your perspective. Personally, I feel that having found this place, I sort of have a responsibility to stay here and keep spouting, because we are such a fragmented minority and we need all the diverse support from this broad community we can get.

Hugs and kisses MM - you may not be my type, but you are my friend.. :D

Katey x

[Vikky]

Hi Mechamoose

You ARE in good company here, as many of us have no plans to transition and only dress en femme when we can.

“Am I so much in a minority”

O don't think so. I am certainly a guy and like doing guy stuff with my mates and pals, but also crave femme time in the privacy of my own home. I also need to fit in with the feelings of my SO. It sounds as if you can dress up every day - I wish I could.

The outside world can be cruel and hard, but here there is support, ideas, experience and much more.

I hope this helps.

Vikky

[Zylia]

You want to do the whole "I'm different than everyone else" shtick? Well, stand in line buddy ;) There are lots of stories on this forum. If you're looking for girls here who actually are girls and just want to correct the mistake mother nature made, you're going to find them. If you're looking for the girls with their heads firmly stuck in fantasy land, you're going to find them. If you're looking for guys who just enjoy being 'pretty' every once in a while or dress up for whatever tactile sensation they experience, you're going to find them as well. There are a lot of actual gender issue threads as well as fantasy and indulgence threads, but that's what this forum is for.

Sure, I 'dress to pass' (whatever that means), but don't mistake my visual presentation on this forum for my actual identity. I am a guy first and foremost. Passing or trying to pass has little to do with transition.

[mechamoose]

I'm not trying to say I'm unique, I'm just saying that the way I am doesn't seem to line up with very many of you. There are many different types of CDers, and no two of us are going to be alike.

I appreciate the feedback that you have given (especially those who don't normally post)

[natcrys]

I'm a guy.. into martial arts.. snowboarding.. football. I also have a feminine side.. which I express in a different way than you, Mecha,.. but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think we're so different.

And as I've stated in another thread, I hugely support anyone's way to express themselves. Do I understand why some want to just wear a skirt, but keep all the body hair? No! Do I fundamentally understand why I do what I do? No!

You want understanding in the literal sense, but I don't think that's really possible.. even from CD's with your specific way of dressing (which I also think is the majority actually). They will recognise and have similar feelings though.. and perhaps it would be good thing if they let themselves be heard and seen.

What I have found is that this forum provides support, encouragement, constructive criticism (if asked) and a few laughs.


Passing or trying to pass has little to do with transition.

I got nothing to add to this. :)

[tfguy]

Tinkerbell GG,

Thanks for your response.

[Marcelle]

Hi MM,

Not sure why you feel you are alone as when I look at a lot of threads it is just about dressing for many. I live 80% of my time male with Isha taking up the remaining 20%. Do I try to blend when I go out? Yes. However I never loose sight of the fact that I am a guy, a dude, a bloke, a man. I love being a guy as much as I love being Isha (note I said Isha and not a woman) . . . Isha just happens to like girl clothes and make-up. :)

Hugs

Isha

[Claire Cook]

MM (now THOSE are initials to envy!),


As others have said, we are all individuals and probably no two us have exactly the same feelings about gender -- unless we are truly TS and identify fully as female. We CD'ers are indeed a rainbow spectrum. That said, we should appreciate others' points of view -- and the fact that each of us have our own comfort zones. And we should be non-judgmental about that.


For myself, I would like to spend as much time as I can looking and acting (and maybe being accepted) as a woman -- but remain a happily married, monogamous heterosexual male. I have no intention of transitioning.


PS -- one of my GG friends gave me a MM bra!

[Zylia]

I'm not trying to say I'm unique, I'm just saying that the way I am doesn't seem to line up with very many of you. There are many different types of CDers, and no two of us are going to be alike.
Fair enough. You asked "Isn't this place about validation and exploring how we see our identities?".
This forum is EXACTLY this place. I have found no community on the internet that validates every kind of cross-gender expression (albeit not by every individual member, but that's what individuals are for) like this forum. There have been many great discussions here about cross-dressing/transgenderism and I guess that this thread is another one that shows how diverse we really are. If you're not able to 'explore' here, I really don't know where else you could go.

You also talked about the "default aim to transition or pass" and I expressed that these two things have little to do with each other. More to your point, you're right, the gallery and a lot of threads are "pass-centric", your type of cross-dressing (or at least visual expression of it) doesn't get as much attention. You're likely to find more acceptance for 'mixing' gender expressions here than in society at large, but not necessarily more appreciation. We're products of the gender binary as much as cis-folks and a lot of us hold ourselves and others to the same visual standards of that binary. This is not an excuse, it's fair criticism, often expressed and very hard to fix. See the recent thread about "men in skirts" for example. However, one of the 'tenets' of cross-dressing is the separation of identity and expression, so while a majority may express themselves differently than you do, we actually may have more in common than you think internally. Maybe it's time for another thread about that?

[Candice Mae]

Theres a big difference from being a regular cd to being a ts, occasionally wearing woman's clothing is one thing identifying and living as a woman is different ball game. There are a lot of regular CDs on here but very few of the actually are ts, and everyone is different no one has to fit a specific label. Use a label to describe yourself, but never use a label to define yourself.

[Annaliese]

Why should you be here, friendship, knowledge, to learn from us, for us to learn from you, where else would you go that is accepting, are we sometime self rightest, opinionated, yes. We will also defend your right to do the same. NO matter when you are on the CD TS spectrum you are one of us. So post, read, get to know us.

[MsVal]

Wow! Thirty six posts over night. You really touched a nerve Mechamoose.

It seems that your point is that you feel like an outlier in this group of outliers. I'm not going to attempt to invalidate your personal feeings, I have too much respect for you to do that. Instead, I'm going to agree with what I believe you are saying: the population of crossdressers that wish to present as masculine at all times but enjoy feminine clothing appears to be under represented. Put simply and crudely, there aren't very many posts by men in skirts.

You are a skillful writer, Mechamoose, and a great observer of the human condition. I look forward to seeing more of your posts, some of which I hope will promote your position in as thought provoking a way as this post has done.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Laura Collette]

Besides being a sexual thrill for me (and that has waned considerably over the years) I haven't really analyzed my crossdressing urges with anyone. Discussions like this one are really helpful but I see nobody here who sounds exactly like me so I'll add my thoughts such as they are. I would never want to transition; I am male and wouldn't give up my born gender. At the same time I've never fit into what I see as the male mold: I don't care for sports, when forced to play sports in school I wasn't aggressive enough to compete, I get bored in guys' conversations about cars, football, etc. I always felt timid around other boys and used humor to carry me through the rough spots growing up. Excuse me for buying into a cliche but I felt that girls and women were more like me in this regard, and could be accepted for who they were rather than what they did. I discovered that I made a pretty attractive looking girl when dressed up, and it was a great relief to me to set down that burden of male expectations even in private, just to be myself for a while without guilt for my "shortcomings" of courage, aggression and being the odd man out. Since then I've learned that growing up female is no bed of roses either, that schoolgirls are just as cruel to one another as the boys if not more so, that many women feel that their gender traps them into roles they resent. Some hit the "glass ceiling", others achieve in the male world by being tougher than the guys. Regardless of what I've learned as an adult, though, dressing up as a girl continues to give me a feeling of self acceptance that I find very comforting. Go figure.

[shawnsheila]

I see where you are coming from MM,
I am a "rough and tumble boy" I teach martial arts, play sports, compete in tournaments etc. all of which I love, but I also love looking and feeling like a woman... I too feel like I have an inner feminine self... Over the years I have progressed to the point where I would like to be dressed more often then not, but I still love doing "guy thing" and I also want to walk around the beach with my shirt off (as a guy) I'm still working out where I fall on the spectrum too, sometime I want to dress full time and sometimes no

[Confucius]

Everyone here has their own life experiences and are coping with cross-dressing in they best manner they know. This creates a wide array of cross-dressing, a spectrum. And I find that beautiful. The acceptance we have for one another is our finest virtue.

Personally I refuse to adopt a feminine name. I am NOT a girl. I am a man who happens to like dresses. As far as I can tell I have been this way all of my life. Feminine clothing just feels so wonderful. However I never forget that its good to be a man. There are so many good things about being a man. I love being a husband and a father.

[carhill2mn]

I think that one of the important things that one learns here is that there is a huge diversity of people here. There is no need to worry about whether or not you
"belong". Your feelings will tell you whether or not this forum is good for you.

The more different people and ideas you are exposed to, the more educated you become. Usually, this means that you have a better understanding of people who
are not just like you (no one really is).

[Wildaboutheels]

Well, you are clearly a Misfit, at least to the ones here who think "go all out or go home" is the only way to do it right. So what.

Before you got here. > http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?205712-Q-for-the-MisFits/page2

Would you feel better if you had your own acronym?

Quite a few folks chose to add to this thread. And had some very creative ideas. VVV

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?200276-Since-some-can-t-seem-to-find-the-correct.../page2

And some as always, got their panties in a wad.

[Nadine Spirit]

I tend to not visit other sections of this very broad board, why? I feel as though I fit in just fine here. Sure I ruffle feathers on occasion; which is no different than IRL for me. But such is life. Point being, I work damn hard to pass, and I am constantly refining my look, but if you are not interested in such, enjoy your variation and don't think I look down upon you. And I have absolutely no interest in transitioning. I consider myself to be fairly smack dab in the middle of the spectrum and am quite happy there.

I did have the errant thought initially that I would find others who were exactly like me. Pshaw, that is like finding two identical snowflakes. I am happy now understanding that we are all snowflakes in the same storm.

We are all different but no better or worse than any other.

[reb.femme]

I'm absolutely keeping my naturally attached medallion, no thoughts on transitioning, except into a millionaire (UK Pounds) should I win the lottery.

The vast majority of the time I am a male, I always have been and always will be. I have an element of TG and would love to be able to go out dressed and pass but 40 or so years of testosterone have made that an impossible dream. He ho, that's life and I'll take it like that. I can't be overly deep about all this, my mind just doesn't function that way. I like to keep it simple and I have very few worries in life to be honest.

Ultimately Mechamoose, you are an individual and only a clone will be exactly the same as you. Vive la différence!

Rebecca

Edit: I've definitely had the Os part of my life and still do occasionally.....must be old age :heehee:

[Sallee]

Hi Moose I thinnk you are wrong certainly not every one wants to be a girl at least not all the time. I do like being a girl sometimes or at least I like getting dressed like a girl. but life is way to complex for me to want to make it more so by changing genders.
I to like to get sweaty I ride mtn bikes a lot use to race them. Girls can do that too. In fact girls can do about anything a guy can if they want. I think you are putting to much thought into this wanting to be a girl thng just have fun wearing the cloths you want to wear and don't sweat the rest. Leave the rest for a sweaty muddy mtn bike ride

[JamieG]

Hi MM,

I think part of the problem is you are conflating the goals of to transition and to pass. One can strive for passing on occasion without wanting to be a full-time girl. I dress much less frequently than you do, maybe a few times a month. If I'm at home, I might just throw on a skirt and some tights and that will be the end of it. But if I'm dressing up to go out, then I want to present as femme as possible. This is in part to avoid drawing too much attention to myself, but also to be a good representative of our kind to people who may be meeting their first "out" crossdresser. Likewise, if I'm taking pics to share here, I post pics where I think I've outdone myself. I take pride in learning new skills to improve the illusion, and like to share the results with a community of souls who get it.

By the way, I think of myself as bi-gendered. I like "guy" things like football, beer, camping, and white-water rafting. But I like "girly" things too. In the last few years, I've been trying to integrate my two sides more, for example, by taking ballet classes in male mode. Thus I try to "pass" occasionally," but I certainly have no plans to transition.

You'll find the full gamut in this forum, but keep in mind that those people who are not thinking femme 24 hours a day are likewise not here 24 hours a day, so they may post less frequently.

Jamie

[PaulaQ]

Hi Mdm. Moose - I think you are either in rather good company, or are somewhat of a rare creature here. If you are strongly male identified, but switch between male and female clothing / behavior / presentation you are in really good company, there are tons of folks here just like that.

But I think you are identified somewhere between male and female, with some parts strongly feminine, some parts still masculine, more or less at the same time, right? That's a much more gender queer type of identity, I'd think - although I'd be reticent to label you. It really comes down to what you say you are.

I think some of the more vocal posters here, and certainly the ones who post the most photos, tend to worry a lot about passing. Obviously, the TS folks worry about this too. (Passing is *really* important to most TSs.)

I think the most likely explanation for the heavier post / photo count from the CDs who really work hard on passing is that a certain amount of, for want of a better word, exhibitionism, seems to be a part of the CDing for many here. They want to be seen - at least by other CDs, if not actually out and about in the world. Hey, for most of us, achieving anything approaching passability is a TON of work, and people are proud of their efforts if nothing else.

Now some others may be intimidated about posting their photos for a number of reasons:
1. They aren't out and are afraid of being outed inadvertantly
2. They may be self-conscious, feeling only highly passable folks "look good". (I disagree with that btw. I have no problem with gender queer or androgynous presentations - even "bearded dude in a dress".)
3. They may not care to show anyone else - they just don't need that type of feedback.
4. Fear that they'll be criticized by CDs who think "c'mon - put some more effort into your presentation!" (This may happen from time to time too.)

Most of the folks on this forum don't want to be girls. A few do. It's different on the MtF TS forum, but there it isn't so much a question of "I wanna be a girl!", it's more often a statement of "oh shit, I'm a girl!" At least that was my experience personally.

I'd like to see more photos from folks who aren't passable, don't care about passing, or are deliberately ambiguous / gender queer in their presentation. I'd also like to see more threads from them, provided that people with strong opinions to the contrary could behave...

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi MM, It sounds like you fit right in with all of us normal CDs' .

[Sometimes Steffi]

I totally agree with Jamie.

I guess you can tell by my name that I am only a girl sometimes.

I did the math, and I present completely girly about 0.5% of the time. That means I'm a 0.995 (mostly) boy. Of course, just because I'm mostly boy, doesn't mean I'm not wearing panties underneath my dress pants or red toe nail polish underneath my socks (which I've done all week). It also doesn't mean that I don't enjoy some retail therapy a few times a week, or that I don't look at girls for what they're wearing or how they are walking as opposed to trying to get into their panties [pun intended].

But all that explicit and implicit girl time doesn't make me want to go full time, get fixed, or shave places where I wouldn't normally shave. But, when I'm presenting girl, I want to have the best presentation that I can achieve. I love it when I am complimented on my dress or choice of jewelry.

I think what this thread might have done is woken up the sleeping mass of crossdressers that are fine being crossdressers but not crossing the line.

[Lucy_Bella]

You think that you might have it bad here "just feeling like a girl inside" try not feeling like a girl at all but dressing as one ...

The flack can be somewhat over whelming when you try to get support from the majority of this spectrum.. Most will skip past your post ,some will try to be supportive while a few will say you are just in denial..

I have a sexual attraction to certain female clothing as well as emulating feminine features that I find attractive..I have no desire to be a girl while emulating nor do I feel feminine in anyway other than sexual attraction.. I can understand where you are coming from and you make valid points in your post.

In the end we should understand that as a whole this site is very supportive for the majority as I feel that is the intention ..

[Beverley Sims]

From replies I have seen you elicit here I do not think you are alone or ignored by others, you have struck up stimulating conversations on a number of occasions.
Nice to see a different and even "skewed view" as Rianna has pointed out.

[mechamoose]

I think part of the problem is you are conflating the goals of to transition and to pass.

Ok, so lets assume they are separate groups, worthy enough to be counted separately...

I'm still on the other side of that :)




I post pics where I think I've outdone myself. I take pride in learning new skills to improve the illusion, and like to share the results with a community of souls who get it.

And a bunch of you work really hard for it, and I really respect that.


By the way, I think of myself as bi-gendered. I like "guy" things like football, beer, camping, and white-water rafting. But I like "girly" things too. In the last few years, I've been trying to integrate my two sides more, for example, by taking ballet classes in male mode. Thus I try to "pass" occasionally," but I certainly have no plans to transition.

I just don't get most 'standard' guy things. I don't like most sports stuff on regular TV. I *do* watch Tour De France, and I have been caught more than once by MMA.

On a side note, I took ballet is HS. I got outed by the local newspaper as the *only* male student at the Hartford School of Ballet. [1980] I was under scholarship at the time, but if fell apart because I was too tall. No female students were tall enough to do 'pairs' with me. Kung Fu was a good substitute.. it was 'dancing with purpose'.

As far as gender identity it is like I flip back and forth. Watching something like "The Avengers" makes me feel big fat slabs of male. Watching "You've Got Mail" makes me feel all kinds of soft & fuzzy things. Watching "The Birdcage" just makes me giggle (The Patrick Stewart/Robin Williams version)

[Amanda M]

All I can add, MM, is that we ARE all different - but, here in this forum, there is space for all of us. Incuding me. And you - and everyone else who posts, especially those great GGs who perhaps don't know how much their contributions mean!

[Teresa]

MM even if this was a non Cding forum and you posed a question about house renovation or car repair you would still get answers that you'd say WTF is he on about, what planet is he on ! So throw Cding into the equation, well I see it as lighting the blue touch paper and watch the firework go off in all directions, some want to know why, some don't, some can dress as you choose to and some are climbing the wall in frustration. I know and understand now through the help of great people on the forum where I want to be and see a better future. If you're happy with your dressing situation and your family go along with it don't worry what slot you fit into, what other members on the forum are doing won't affect you, most of us are living compromised lives with our CDing.

[devida]

I feel pretty much the same as you, moose, but I'm beginning to think it's me and not the board and particularly not the posters to this thread, which certainly blew up since I was last here. Iam dmab, nonbinary, quite femme, like you probably more femme than my SO. I'm really interested in exploring my own place on the gender spectrum, but this place, which is neither male nor female, is pretty new, not just to me but to everyone else. As has been pointed out until recently the only acceptance a cross dresser could get was as a female impersonator (loudly proclaiming he wasn't gay) or as a drag performer (where nobody was going to believe him when he said he wasn't gay). The idea of male identified heterosexual men who liked to wear female clothing was so crazy that even now on this board there is a near endless stream of posts in which cross dressers wonder about their sexual orientation or their SOs do. The binaries are enormously influential and while the actuality of gender in society is that there is a wide spectrum from girly men to masculine women to apparently entirely genderless this is not the way any of us were conditioned nor the way that the enormous influence of popular culture, advertising and corporations that make vast sums from gendered products continues to condition us.

I have said I don't experience gender dysphoria, but I actually do. I realized that this morning when the first thing I did, after feeding the cats, was put on a bra and small forms, even though I was wearing a lace nightie and lace panties when I woke up. I did that because I felt uncomfortable about myself without the visual cue of breasts. The very same thing happens to me on this board. If I read too many posts about transitioning or about passing I think this really isn't the place for me, I don't identify with any of this. I need the emotional charge of reading someone like you because you don't want to pass but do feel femme and need to present both male and female. But this is really a matter of my attention not actually the population here. And I am sure that if that's what I need then the cis gendered cross dressing heterosexual who wants to pass as female needs to hear reinforcement for that also. They do more than you or I get threads on living within the binaries but this might not be true in the future and then they might be complaining that this is a cross dresser board but nobody wants pass. We are all on this board members of desperately small minorities, much smaller than the LGB minorities and most of us such a small minority of Transgender than many won't identify that way, and nor should they.

I keep reading and commenting on this board because it is the board that is most likely to have people like you on it and this is partly because there are so many people visiting the board and commenting that there is a likelihood that someone else close enough to me on the gender spectrum will comment. I need that because I really never encounter anyone even remotely like me in my actual environment. So I am very glad you are here and that this thread exists. I am also heartened by the considerable number of posts identifying with you and thus with me. It makes me feel both safe and at home.

[Candice Mae]

I just don't get most 'standard' guy things. I don't like most sports stuff on regular TV. I *do* watch Tour De France, and I have been caught more than once by MMA.

On a side note, I took ballet is HS. I got outed by the local newspaper as the *only* male student at the Hartford School of Ballet. [1980] I was under scholarship at the time, but if fell apart because I was too tall. No female students were tall enough to do 'pairs' with me. Kung Fu was a good substitute.. it was 'dancing with purpose'.

As far as gender identity it is like I flip back and forth. Watching something like "The Avengers" makes me feel big fat slabs of male. Watching "You've Got Mail" makes me feel all kinds of soft & fuzzy things. Watching "The Birdcage" just makes me giggle (The Patrick Stewart/Robin Williams version)

Even though I'm sure it's because I was raised as a male, even though I rarely look like a male now I still have the normal male interests. I like sports, trucks, metal music, and action/horror movies, can't stand click flicks. My appearance has changed, but I'm still the same person. And as others have said we are all idividuals, come in all shapes and sizes, and do things are own way.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Well im well known in our Village, of Waimate in NZ.. yeap down under ,

So lets see im a misfit because of how i was born intersexed, oh yes a bit of this and that,

Im weird because i dress a bit different a nutcase who did not get accepted at the nuthouse because i keeped my trap shut 56 years ago and i knew had i im a female it would have been a quick trip to inside, no life and no brain, oh, and did i say insane , oh yes that too. so apart from that and other issues,

im glad theres not to many like this ummm well you know ya ya right.....

Okay im a female with out my womb i have masculine facial features, dont pass let alone blend in im well accepted as .....funny as .....a normal female / woman im over 66 say to much and get on well with my peers ,

and others work with in our Village community with in a membership of well over a 1000 people who all know more about who i am than the local frogs down at the pond on 3 commitees

because they wonted me to be, even with out my input of ummm do i have a say in this.... nope can i....... nope your on .... oh.... okaaaaay.....you see funny as, maybe i really do fit in, even if im so different they dont see that or care, what they see is a woman who is part of our groups because they have deemed it so, and with out my input. they are lovely neat people .

Okay im not really mad or weird. or insane as youll gather, just a little bit.... nope . oh bugger.

so if this nutcase of a different type of woman can be accepted in real life then here should be a .....breeze people ether get sick of me or know im weird or oh well thats ...her....ether way at the very least have a dam good laugh. im up for that. now wheres that,.... bl....y mouse......

oh by the way my name is real....flip, time i went to bed 2 pm

...noeleena...