connection between bullying and crossdressing?

[adrienner99]

I was born skinny, grew up in a brutal neighborhood, and endured a lot of bullying as a youth. Such an environment makes some young men tough and aggressive. It did not with me. Even today, I am not "tough," confrontational or aggressive. And I hate the pressure I have always felt from other men (and GGs) to have such characteristics.

So I have always wondered if my crossdressing, which started in my early teens, was some sort of reaction, or escape from the pressures of being male.

Has anyone else endured serious bullying as a child, and do you think it connects with your dressing at all?

[Jackie7]

Yes, skinny kid here, bullied in a rough neighborhood. Combined with my mother often telling me she had been expecting a girl when I was born, plus the easy access I had to her things - she used an alcove off the family bathroom as her closet and dressing room. Easy to run home after a bully encounter, lock the bathroom door, and escape into the girl side I was meant to be anyway.

But unlike you, as a young man I emerged very confrontational and aggressive as the best way to head off the bullies in the first place, and it took a long time to unlearn those reflexes and become the gentle soul I hope to be all the time now.

[Marcelle]

Hi Adrienne,

I was very small as a young boy and hence an easy target. Unlike some who all of a sudden get their growth spurt and take on the bullies . . . never happened . . . indeed still waiting for that growth spurt. So I first learned to avoid/run then I learned self defence. Bullying stopped once I hit high school. I don't believe I can draw a connection between bullying and CDing for me.

Hugs

Isha

[Milou]

Could be, I have a large history when it comes to being bullied. It might also explain my masochistic fantasies. So yeah, maybe.

[kimdl93]

The problem is in assuming cause and effect. Bullying happens to people who later cross dress but also to people who never consider it. And I would bet there are a fair number of people among us who bullied other kids or continue to be bullies today.

I was thrown off a horse...more than once..as a child. I cross dress. Are cowboys more likely to cross dress?

[Steph_CD_62]

I would have thought that being bullied might get someone to crossdress.

I was/am a skinny guy that does not like confrontation. I didn't think I was bullied a lot, but I know I was a little in grade school. As I grew older, I stayed away from all the jocks & jerks that might bully me.

I always assumed the reason I got into crossdressing was because as a teenager, I would look at women wearing lingerie and I would pleasure myself with different types of nylon.

But I guess it is possible that both bullying and pleasuring myself looking at women in lingerie started my crossdressing.

[mikiSJ]

I am like Jackie. When I started high school I was 4'10" and about 100#. I took my licks and eventually developed a reputation as someone who doesn't appreciate bullying and the bullying stopped. Fighting back worked for me, but I would not recommend it for every boy or girl who is bullied. Do what works out best for yourself.

I also agree with Kim that being bullied and later cross dressing are probably not linked

Remember, many drivers who has been in auto accident have had a hamburger for lunch and drove off afterwards.The hamburger did not cause the crash - running the stop sign did!

[Gillian Gigs]

As the expression goes, "which came first the chicken, or the egg?". As a child I was not very big for my age, and to add to that my parents started me in school early. So that made me the youngest in my class, as well as one of the smaller ones also. Between how I started off on this trail (age 4, abuse,etc), and the fantasies which lead up to my "borrowing" lingerie, the two are so inseparable that I can not really tell which had the most impact. Abuse, bullying, can either make you quick to run, or fight, I guess that depends on your inner nature. I was a runner until the last year of high school when I finally realized that the bullies would never stop until they were stood up too. It is not easy to understand what gets you started in CDing, it is easier to see what keeps you going. In my case it was being a loner, (maybe because of bullying), who found the pleasure of wearing lingerie, dressing up, and then later came the fun of playing with myself while wearing the clothes. Now here I am many years later, I stand up for myself and I have found my niche in what I like to wear...bullys be dammed!

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Sorry Adrienner , I was never bullied ; hence I cannot answer your question. Whatever your reason(s) for cding, please enjoy who you are & what you have come to be. I hope Adrienner finds her peace, mel

[5150 Girl]

I was skinny, smaller than most, non athletic (except for cycling)... I was a lone gear head in a high school ruled by jocks. I spent most of my HS career hiding form the jocks in the band room! (I played trumpet) Therefore, I was quite the target when I needed to pull my head out of the band room sand.....
However...... I really don't believe bullying is what created this side to me. I've always known I was different. There is a pic of me around here somewhere of me (about the age of 3) playing with a set of Grandma's peals, and a wig, I may have even has a dress on...

[samantha rogers]

Interesting...though I agree that making a cross the board assumption would be foolish - we are all unique, despite what we share - I do believe that there can be a connection, and have even discussed this with my therapist.
In my case, My parents divorced when I was young, and to survive financially ( long story) my mother moved us from a safe, wealthier area into a tougher neighborhood far away (a different country entirely, actually), where street fighting and bullying was rampant. She worked and so I was left most afternoons with a choice between being on the street, where being softer and foreign made me an easy target, or retreating to our apartment, which I usually chose. There, I found myself often venturing into my mothers room, and first began to try on her clothing. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to make the connection that my GID, at least in some form, involves a search for a return to safety and comfort in the form of my mother.
Sigh...it always, in one form or another and to one degree or another, comes back to our parents, doesn't it. Maybe not. IDK.
For me, I am sure of it.
Though I doubt that is all.
Research I have seen has shown that mothers of babies during the fifties and earlier were given drugs filled with estrogen when at risk of miscarriage. My mother had a miscarriage between the birth of myself and my older brother (would have been a girl...tee hee), and so is likely to have taken these drugs. If I remember correctly, research has shown that high levels of E in the bloodstream of an expectant mother can interrupt the development of a fetal male brain at the point when "normal" gender identity characteristics are forming. Sigh...
But knowing this, though it really matters little at this point, was, along with other things, very helpful to me, at least, in coming to terms with who I am, and learning to accept, value and love that person.
I guess whatever helps is good, right?:daydreaming:

[Sometimes Steffi]

I was bullied in school for a while in 8th grade. There were 2 guys who enjoyed bullyimg me, but one was the leader. These two were only in my electives: music, art and shop, and shop was the best place because the teacher often stepped out of the classroom, probably to get a smoke. One of my biggest fears was getting expelled for fighting in school.

Anyhow, one day in metal shop, I was in a really bad mood, because my shop project was all messed up. The teacher was gone. The leader guy came up from behind, put his hand on my shoulder, and said something to me. Without even thinking about it, I turned around and took a swing at this guy, and we got into a fight in the middle of shop class. I'd say the fight was a draw. I got a few licks in and came out relatively unscathed.

These guys never bothered me again. I guess they weren't interested in someone who would fight back. And for me, this was empowering. I learned that I could and should fend for myself.

BTW. I was already CDing before this happened.

[Jenniferathome]

Nope. I think you are reaching for "cause." You were born with cross dressing. Life influenced you somewhat but your predisposition was there.

[Amanda M]

I'm with Jenn here. I was bullied - because I was the "fat guy". It hurt - a lot. I just was not tough enough or brave enough, and tried to avoid confrontaion. As you can imagine, that never worked. Later on, when I had slimmed down, the problem seemed to go away. Still, though, I'd love to be able to tell you that I turned on a bully and thrashed him, but that would be a lie. Even now, I hate bullying. It is the resort of those who lack the intellect to understand that someday, they will meet someone stonger/more brutal/ better armed than themselves. Sadly, that is a trait that we might never breed out from the "macho" male. Or macho politicians.

Hugs, Jenn!

[samantha rogers]

Don't mistake me, Jennifer... I accept and am quite good with the "you were born with it, just accept it" thing... but I find that whatever helps is also... good. Being able to look at things and try to understand them is part of me,and who I am, too. Just the way my mind works... I enjoy solving problems, and puzzling over them for solutions. So, at least in my case, it does help.
I can't speak for others..of course....as I said, we are all unique (and all beautiful in our own way)... but if trying to find answers helps, how is it any different from anything else that helps?
It is all about trying to find whatever it is that brings us to peace and understanding with who we are, isn't it?
Some people spend their lives searching for spiritual truth, while others never give it a thought. Whatever works, I guess.
When I was in drama school (I am an actor by training), I used to run across teachers who were really expert in just one form of actor training. That was great... if it worked for you. If it didn't then you flailed around, gaining nothing. But others knew many ways to approach acting. They were capable of discerning that a particular approach was not working with a student, and then trying something different, until finally an approach was found that did work. In the end, all that mattered was creating a good actor. The approach did not matter, only the result.
I am really happy to support whatever helps any of us find our way to that goal of really being happy with who we are.
For that matter, even disagreeing about approaches is good, tee hee, if, in the end, it helps someone find that place.
Hugs

[Jenniferathome]

...I hate bullying. It is the resort of those who lack the intellect to understand that someday, they will meet someone stonger/more brutal/ better armed than themselves. ...

You got this this right. Karma baby. and thanks....

[CarlaWestin]

Yes, I too grew up as a skinny lightweight ..................... little Irish person. To this day, my wife has to be the negotiator because, I have no issue with taking out a moron.

[Katey888]

Grew up quite early as a teenager so wasn't bullied... Wasn't a bully either... but it's fair to say I wasn't massively confident as a youth...

No Adrienner - I don't think it's related to bullying.

I think it's cosmic rays...

Any new pics for me and I'll be swathed in cooking foil... but I suppose it's too late now - oh well... :)

Katey x

[Avrial]

I was bullied frequently. Everyone knew I was more quiet and passive, so I was an easy target. Though the insults were empty because I tried to not give them a reason. I have a very short temper, so push me a couple times, and I'm going to fight back... it got rough a couple times. They would back down, and the cycle would repeat every year with someone new. As for a connection to CD, I don't see it as direct.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I was bulled most of my life until I was out of high school. I wasn't the skinny kid like most here... I was the fattest kid in my grade, K-12 (though in later years there were some almost as large as I was.) I wasn't socialized properly at a very young age and by the time I was in school I was very socially awkward and was an easy target (I was also a target due to my weight.) I grew up clinging to my mother for comfort and security, I don't think it is any wonder I grew up to emulate her. I was also bullied by my own father, which sure could not have helped things.

It is ironic. I have always said I was a man ahead of my time, and today there are plenty of obese children, in some places they are the majority. Today, I'd fit right in, at least in terms of appearance.

[Tracii G]

I'm short so yeah I got bullied a lot in elementary, middle school and in the "hood".
Got into martial arts about 13 years old and studied hard and earned my belts.
Started high school and took care of business when the bullying started.After a few fights the bullying stopped.
I always hung with girls mostly because I felt more in tune with them.

[JamieTG]

I starting trying on girls clothes at age 5, well before the teasing and bullying which was during junior high and high school. Because I was the youngest in my class and very late in physical development, I was afraid to fight back or even speak up for myself. Its caused me to go through life in a timid manner which I always regret.

[sometimes_miss]

connection between bullying and crossdressing?
Sure; seeing that girls often escape the physical fighting could easily influence our desire to be a girl as a way out if we are the perpetual loser of all physical fights. I lived through that as a young kid, and saw a girl's life as much less painful physically. But that didn't make me want to be a girl, or think that I was supposed to be one, until other outside influences made me question what other things could have been interpreted to be as something that 'meant that I was really a girl'. You can find out more about this phenomenon in my bio in the writers forum, link is in my sig. Any questions, please write to me, because I don't always come back to re-read threads.

[Lucy Lou]

I understand what you are saying completely. I was always a bit effeminate, and was bullied from the first few days at school. I am artistic and I have written poetry from the age of about 15 and like romantic films and novels rather than action movies with macho men killing people and fighting.

I never liked football and was always into music which has been my profession for many years, with a couple of career changes to make ends meet.

Because I was what I am I never really fitted in and was bullied throughout my school times as I wasn't into fighting and being 'a man'.

So, then we come onto the cross dressing, which I first did in my teens. I think I was destined to do this anyway and I think that the dressing is not a result of it but maybe it could have added to it but not the result of it.

Big hugs Lucy Lou xx

[KimberlyJean]

I was a big kid and have been an alpha male and anti bully my whole life. No bullying happened. I am also pretty quick witted and good with verbal confrontations as well. I think my crossdressing is life's way of keeping me open and grounded.

[Dianne S]

I was (and am) very small. However, I was never bullied. I guess something about my personality told people not to mess with me. And those who did only did it once. Despite being small, I was not afraid to throw a punch and was especially unafraid of fighting dirty... a knee to the groin or the sudden wrenching of a finger back can do wonders for making people leave you alone.

[Helena Gwyn]

I've been bullied for many years. I don't think my desire to CD is related to it. The way I see it, I was bullied by the boys because I was different. Because of who I am, in all my aspects (being the desire to CD and others as well), I see things differently, and all that is different is often automatically considered to be wrong or at least a target.

[Eryn]

In high school I was small, smart, and lacking in some social skills so I might as well have had a big target painted on my chest. Being bullied was pretty much a continuous part of my high school routine.

Does bullying make crossdressers? Not likely, or about 1/3 of the population would be considerably prettier.

[KaceyR]

Not likely, or about 1/3 of the population would be considerably prettier.

Hah! I like that :D

In my exp, bullying didn't create the CDer.. Yes, some did occur but it was due to my 'weaker' and not so manly attributes I guess. I was smaller than other kids, hands and body a bit than others... Due to this didn't play sports and played with girls more in grade school. I was more imaginative,emotional,and empathic..not manly. Because of all of this I got introverted more later on.. No recess anymore to keep playing with the girls, and I wasn't manly enough I guess to get along with the boys. So Still got bullied a couple times in jr high.. And I certainly didn't really improve much in HS.

So while I think my wimpy attributes was more a cause or an indicator that I'd love CDing (wish I'd started earlier...sigh-feel a couple decades wasted), then that aspect attracted bullies. Bullying didn't cause CDing..but probably is a good indicator of what was beneath the surface.

[Sarah21]

Bullying is horrible, what ever the reason.
It's more common now because of all the social media and the internet.

I was bullied growing up because I was a bit different to the other boys.
I just dealt with it but I knew when I got home I could just close the door and forget about it until the next day at school.

Nowadays, it must be horrible for kids, it's constant, 24 hours a day. I have heard so many stories of young people taking their own lives because of bullying.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Does bullying make crossdressers? Not likely, or about 1/3 of the population would be considerably prettier.

So true. I don't think many people escape this phenomenon. Maybe crossdressing is an escape for SOME who are bullied, but I'd expect it's less a cause and more a trigger for something that was already in the making.

As for bullies, I want them eradicated off the earth. They make being a mother so much harder and I worry for my young kids everyday :(

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Adrienner, I was cross dressing long before being bullied.

[Janine cd]

I was a heavy weight in my elementary school years. Although I was big and seemed to be masculine in my behavior, I was always interested in what the girls were doing. I was bullied relentlessly in the 7th and 8th grades and dreaded walking home alone when my aggressers were nearby.

[Eryn]

...Nowadays, it must be horrible for kids, it's constant, 24 hours a day. I have heard so many stories of young people taking their own lives because of bullying.


...As for bullies, I want them eradicated off the earth. They make being a mother so much harder and I worry for my young kids everyday :(

Age might dull our memories but children and adolescents can be pretty savage. They haven't learned the subtleties of adult social interaction and tend to resort to more simple and direct structure. For many of these, if adults are not in sight they act upon purely animal instincts. In the childhood social structure there are either leaders, members, hangers-on, or outside the group. Those outside the group are the ones who tend to be bullied, either physically or psychologically. Often it isn't the leaders doing the physical bullying, but the hangers-on, in an attempt to curry favor with the leaders. You can catch and punish them but the leaders still get away clean.

Sadly, I see little that can be done about bullying. It's really a parenting issue, and the parents of those truly responsible don't have much motivation to change the situation. Their children are happy being the leaders and their parents are proud of that status.

[noeleena]

Hi.

There was abuse in our family how much i had a mind blank and no memory for 7 years my brain woke up at age 10 plus bullyed at school , i was a fast runner had to to get away till i was cornered and more bullying, you know 4 against 1 and they were taller an two were heavy'er,

I could have easyily taken them down as i was taught how to just i had a fear of like my father ( only 5 years ) had i gone into a fight rage i would not have known when to stop,and the fear of killing them of cause he was a wrestler and had a temper / rage , i allso had / have that,

So you have that hanging over you, youll understand what i went through of cause theres a lot more and it is not good, so the reason i was / am passive, or a non combatant,

Some may say oh yes a male trait maybe yes, try being female with it, does that change the story,

very strong just not a fighter, or aggressive, because i was passive had to , may have been the reason or just had a soft nature ,reason for being bullyed

as to dressing never did it unless i was dressed by others,

...noeleena...

[Lynn Marie]

I was a pretty successful kid! Especially after I was held back a year in the 5th grade. This made me a more mature tall kid than my classmates. In addition, I lived with my grandmother for a few years who was a wonderful influence on me. In fighting, I was able to hold my own, but I'd still come away with cuts, bruises, and other painful injuries, so I avoided physical confrontation as a pretty unsatisfactory method of solving conflicts. So, no, bullies didn't make me a CDer.

[stephNE]

I started cross dressing when I was very little, probably around age five. At that time I had not been bullied. But as I got older (8-9), I was fat, slow and different from the other kids, and was bullied all thru the end of high school. Being bullied may have contributed to me looking inward to try to be happy, but bullying did not cause the CDing.

[Confucius]

Yes, I was the skinniest guy in school, quiet and very sensitive. Bullies were everywhere! It seems as if all these guys were trying to out -bully each other and establish themselves as the alpha male. These bullies seemed to attract some loyal lieutenants who only reinforced their own dominance. However I kept a low profile and while I was bullied, I did not get the worse of it. There were a couple other guys I knew who took the bullying much worse than me.

I don't think the bullying made me a cross-dresser. I know several cross-dressers who used to be bullies themselves...

I think that the majority of cross-dressers have several things in common. In our formative years we believed that females have it better in the world than males. We over-valued the feminine virtues while failing to recognize masculine virtues. And most important of all - our brains were hard-wired during synaptogenesis and neural pruning such that our brains now interpret cross-dressing as actual contact with a female. Now when we cross-dress our brains respond by releasing a host of neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, etc) which produce the sensations of well-being, pleasure, gratification and bonding.

[Beverley Sims]

I suffered bullying at school, it did not have any predisposition to my dressing as that was totally offside to any other problems I experienced.

[Alice Torn]

I was the baby of my family, had two older twin brothers, who ridiculed me my entire 60 years. In school, i was tall and skinny, and weak boundries. I was picked on at every school i attended, and seldom fought back. I felt gulity if i fought back. i have suffered awful guilt for being alive, for dressing, for wanting a wife, yada yada. I deal with it, and do better for a while, then it comes back in a dream, or out of the blue. Guilt trips are my Achilles heel. My older brothers still guilt trip me, if i am around them much. A family that had fake love. I am very paranoid, too, and it keeps me from going out dressed, too. Some days are better than others, but i always felt very different,paranoid, and gulity. I have to constantly deal with it.

[Jocee]

Oh yes...... I was horribly bullied when I was a kid.

[LilSissyStevie]

Sure I was bullied just like everyone else in my neighborhood. Think of it as the hazing rituals of the lumpen-proletariat. Being bullied by my so-called peers was the least of my problems. The adult bullies were the worst. Did it have anything to do with my becoming a CD? I'm inclined to think so, but it's not something that can be proved one way or the other.

[mechamoose]

I was born skinny, grew up in a brutal neighborhood, and endured a lot of bullying as a youth. Such an environment makes some young men tough and aggressive. It did not with me. Even today, I am not "tough," confrontational or aggressive. And I hate the pressure I have always felt from other men (and GGs) to have such characteristics.

You didn't just learn to be tough, hon. You learned how to survive.

<3

- MM

[devida]

It connects as far as cross dressing is non conforming behavior and bullies pick on the children who do not conform. I was never bullied. I should have been. I was darker and a different race to my class mates and I was not very strong. But I was stubborn and would fight way longer than any bully wanted. So the bullies always went on to easier targets. But I didn't and don't act differently from the norm as a response. It's just who I am.

[tiffanynjcd24]

I was bullied my entire life

[mechamoose]

When I was 10ish, and in the grade before "middle school", I experienced 25-30 boys simultaneously charge across the school yard, surround me, and proceed to beat me. There was no where to go, no teacher to call to. It had been instigated my the local 'big & mature' kid.

I hadn't yet had the slightest idea that I was different. And if I was , *why* I was different. All I knew what this mass of people thought it was The Thing To Do to chase me down and punch and kick me. They felt empowered by it. To this day I still don't understand why.

I'm on the Autism spectrum. So are all my kids. I know that means that I don't see or 'get' the world the same way that the Muggles do. I know I'm different now, and I know why. I have certain gifts, and certain limitations.
But then, I was 10, and every guy I knew was willing to participate in making me eat dirt.

What if you don't *know* that you are different or why you are different? Does that absolve those stupid jock boys rolling along with mob mentality?

All my friends then were girls. Strong girls. Active girls. One girl.. this wonderful Greek amazon of a kid.. (the sister of a guy who would become my best friend) came to my rescue. Pushed and shoved and shouted. They stood down to her challenges.

Boys can be such a**h*les.

- MM

[sanderlay]

Research I have seen has shown that mothers of babies during the fifties and earlier were given drugs filled with estrogen when at risk of miscarriage. My mother had a miscarriage between the birth of myself and my older brother (would have been a girl...tee hee), and so is likely to have taken these drugs. If I remember correctly, research has shown that high levels of E in the bloodstream of an expectant mother can interrupt the development of a fetal male brain at the point when "normal" gender identity characteristics are forming.

Samantha,

Thanks for that information. That might be the explanation as to why I am the way I am as I am a child of the mid 1950's. It might have been done as a preventive measure. I was her first child. But I do not have solid evidence this was done. So it remains a theory.

What ever the cause I do accept this is just the way I am. I don't blame anyone. But I do not believe the bulling theory for myself because I had the feelings before the bullying. So the effect was before the cause if it were bullying.

Added: This is what I found with a Google search... 1950's medicine to prevent miscarriage. This is the drug... Diethylstilbestrol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol).

Also see this thread in 2011 DES sons (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?165045-DES-sons).

[Carly CD]

I was a tall skinny kid who wore glasses and for a short time I was bullied, but then I fought back. This was about the 3rd grade. From then on I had a short fuse. I was never bullied after that. Now I will admit I did become somewhat of a bully you could say. I wasn't overly mean to anyone or hurt them. But I was good for obsessive amount of jokes on people sometimes. Maybe my connection between my short fuse and crossdressing was to prove I was all boy to myself? IDK. As I got older, I lost the short fuse and although I am still a prankster... I try to be careful on what I do and make sure everyone involved has a good time.

[Robert]

After working as a high school teacher for many years, and reading many discussion threads like this, it might be safe to say that just about all kids are bullied at school. Schools are, in my experience, great big meat grinders that tend to do more harm than good. That's why I got out of the education system after 10 years of trying to change it from within.

Lumping 100s of hormone ravaged adolescents together, based on little more than a common age, and geographical location, is one of the craziest ideas humanity has ever come up with. Add in, limited budgets and political agendas, its a wonder anyone comes out the other side without serious issues.

As to a link between bullying and CDing? I have no idea.

[Aylineira]

To the OP,

I don't think bullying had anything to do with my CDing. I remember wanting to wear my mom's heels and heeled boots when before all of that ever began.