To the CD who creeped out my wife...

[jjjjohanne]

Tonight at the store, you walked onto the aisle that my, only slightly tolerant, wife was on. My wife's radar turned on that you might be a crossdresser. When you stood behind her, it freaked her out. When she finally found the peanut butter and put it in her cart, she looked you in the eye. You walked immediately away. But the effect was done. You had creeped her out pretty badly. She said that the rest of the night she was uneasy.

By the way, she said you were too perfect. Your hair, your makeup, and your clothes were too good for 9PM at the grocery store. Your makeup was like a doll, she said. By that, she meant that it was too perfectly done. She said that your walk gave you away. You legs and shoulders were give-aways too.

My wife said that if you had walked past her it would not have bothered her. It was how you stood right behind her facing the same way as her that made her uncomfortable.

Congratulations on having an outing. Beware being too close to strangers without at least saying, "Hi" or "Excuse me". Thank you for allowing my wife and I to have an interesting conversation about crossdressing.

[Michelle V]

Hate to be critical, especially since I cannot place myself on your wife's position but don't you think that a little rough, I mean you should be able to understand the taboo of crossdressing, how it turns people off and how we expect the worst reaction from people, which leads us to act beyond the social norm, maybe our fellow CD was so freaking nervous she just didn't know how to behave in public. I can understand your wife's uneasiness when confronted by this individual but you only know one side of the story. I think that as a fellow CD a little sympathy is in order, don't you think? I myself have never been out as Michelle, I cannot tell you whether I would creep people out and that's the main reason I am still too unsecured to venture out, which SUCKS! I hope when I gather enough courage to do it I don't freak people and make the uneasy. Hoping your wife is feeling better and does not classify all of us as creeps.

[Wildaboutheels]

You CAN'T be serious I hope?

Do you have any idea at all how many folks here you just insulted?

And most likely offended?

Or...maybe your wife has X ray vision and KNOWS it was a CDer and not a real GG?

[Tinkerbell-GG]

This is about you, johanne, not the crossdresser at the store and you need to talk to her about it so she's not living in fear and unintentionally offending people at the same time.

[Eryn]

Folks, please be civil. Let's discuss the issue, not each other.

My view is that this member's wife saw a tall woman who she believes to be a CDer. There is a very good chance that it was actually a GG as the "clues" cited aren't terribly definite. Very few of us know how to do perfect "doll like" makeup, and those that do would know how to walk and how to select clothes to hide any defects in shoulders and arms. Why take such pains with one detail and ignore others?

I've seen a lot of people who I thought might be CDers, but I've never been able to objectively say that they definitely are.

The question is, would this person have gotten so irritated if it were a GG that stood behind her, perhaps looking in vain for a particular brand of peanut butter? This happens every day to just about anyone who goes shopping.

[jjjjohanne]

She said that it would have been just as creepy if the person was presenting male. Probably even if it were a GG presenting femme.

The conversation with my wife made me review my past actions to see if I did something like this. That feeling of, "I need to get out" mixed with the feeling of "Don't stand in plain view." I relate to the CD in some ways.

[heatherdress]

It would seem to be creepy for anyone to sneak up behind someone and stand behind them if they were close and a "stare-down" resulted. Sorry if that happened.

But everything else seems to be perfectly OK behavior for anyone in a store.

[Eryn]

Johanne, I think that Tinkerbell-GG has it right. Your wife's concern is not with the CDer, it is with sending you a message.

It is unreasonable for a person to get annoyed about someone else looking at the same shelf in a store as they are. It happens to me just about every time I shop and there's nothing "creepy" about it.

A CDer has the same right to be out in public as anyone else. I don't intentionally make anyone uncomfortable, but I'm not going to allow someone to restrict my actions simply by claiming some obscure feeling of "creepiness". That is something that they will have to work out for themselves.

[Lillyasia]

So did your wife creep out when she stood in line to pay and someone was behind her? No one likes someone on their "six", but this is reality in a civilized society. The reality is it's a crowded world, and when she goes out in to public areas there is going to be someone behind her. Plus people saying "excuse me" is an exception, not the rule anymore. If she can't handle that, then she has a problem.

The last time I shopped for peanut butter was last month. I got the the section and no one was around. I was looking at labels and comparing prices. Then two women came up and reached in and grabbed what they needed. Neither one said "excuse me." Should I put down all women as rude? Or does it only apply to crossdressers and men?

There is Safeway.com or other online resources for groceries. No worry about running in to people there, except the delivery person.

[Shelly Preston]

I am sorry but at 9 pm If I am in a grocery store and look too perfect for your wife there is a problem somewhere.

The individual concerned may just be grabbing a few things before going out. It may seem a little overdressed but it could depend on circumstances. If this was someone crossdressed they they may not be comfortable using their voice.

Grocery stores are full of people busy with their own lives.

[Kate Simmons]

Looks like another reason not to hob knob with the general public. Sometimes our need to dress and common sense come to a loggerhead point. We don't always make the best decisions when that happens.:)

[Zylia]

Can't wait for the "To the GG who creeped me out while grocery shopping en femme" thread.

"I just wanted to get a jar of peanut butter, but you stood there blocking the shelf for what felt like an eternity. When you finally found the goshdarn jar you wanted, you turned around and looked me straight in the eyes. I freaked out and ran for the exit as fast as I could. Thanks for ruining my otherwise peaceful outing, I'll stay inside the closet the next time."

[Katey888]

Johanne - thanks for trying to recount something objectively from your wife's POV... your last couple of points are quite relevant for the world at large.

Kate's point has also been replayed - with validity - in the past few days, along with others... Even for someone who has a greater than ordinary awareness of CDers we may be a source of conversation, possibly amusement and perhaps even fear (as that is my interpretation of someone feeling 'freaked out' or 'creepy' behaviour - there is something threatening there..)

I must admit, there can be some quite ordinary folk freak me out late at night in stores or supermarkets... and that's probably a good lesson to take away from this observation... If you're out, however you're presenting but particularly if you are presenting as your alter ego, there's perhaps more imperative to just increase that personal space that you give people, more incentive to actively lighten your demeanour with a smile or a quiet hello, to positively acknowledge people but to hopefully set them at ease.

Let's face it - a lot of muggles in supermarkets are just plain rude and poorly coordinated... I think this was just one of them... :)

Katey x

[jjjjohanne]

I want to apologize for how my original posts sounds. I tried to make it sound non-hateful. I even tried to make it sound complementary by the end. In my mind, I wanted to give feedback.

The whole error of the CD was standing 2-3 feet behind my wife, facing her back, for about a minute without moving or speaking. This person just stood there and faced the back of my wife. If it were me, I suppose I would of turned and looked, or perhaps spoken. Very likely, I would have moved away from the stranger. I don't know why my wife stayed put in a situation that made her uncomfortable. She has expressed before that people in disguise, like clowns, make her uneasy. Perhaps this counts as a disguise. I will have to ask her.

Once when I was shoe shopping, I walked behind a lady who was sitting on a bench trying on some shoes. I was looking at the rack in front of here. I said to her, "I am looking at that rack. I don't want to creep you out." She responded with something like, "It is OK. I don't creep out too easily." Then we had a friendly conversation while I tried on my shoes on the next bench on the aisle. I was in a skirt and blouse. I was presenting male. The only part of my attire she ever acknowledged was that the shoes I was trying on. They did not fit, I mentioned it, and she agreed.

When my wife and I discussed the CD who stood behind her, I tried to explain her behavior. I said that when one first starts going out, just standing in the same room with another person and being seen is an exhilarating experience. But interacting with them is too much. Also, the CD might not have achieved a satisfactory voice and, therefore, was uncomfortable talking to my wife. I predicted that this CD might be new to going out. However, the perfect make-up job and perfect hair implies that this CD is not inexperienced with dressing. I hypothesized that she might have just had a professional makeover. Please let me acknowledge that all of this is pure conjecture.

[Marcelle]

Hi Johanne,

After reading your final post . . . no offence taken here. Although I will admit when I read your OP I was a bit miffed.

I know from my own experience when I go out to grocery stores and move along the aisles some people can get a weird look on their face when I come up behind them and they turn around and we lock gazes . . . I get it on a fundamental level . . . dude in make-up. Hey it is not like you run into a CDer everyday. But then again, as a guy, I have accidently "creeped" out GGs by moving behind them to grab something off the shelf even when I say "excuse me". One thing we should all understand is some people do not like their personal space invaded regardless of who it is.

I do like that you took the time to explain to your wife that this may have been a first time girl out and about. Did she understand that POV? Specifically I doubt (if it were a CDer) that the gal was purposely trying to creep her out . . . some people are just awkward social creatures. I remember my first time in a grocery store . . . I am sure I creeped a lot of folks out skulking down aisles, momentary gazes through bad make-up and no interaction.

All to say in my book . . . no harm, no foul.

Hugs

Isha

[Rhonda Darling]

She said that it would have been just as creepy if the person was presenting male. Probably even if it were a GG presenting femme.

The conversation with my wife made me review my past actions to see if I did something like this. That feeling of, "I need to get out" mixed with the feeling of "Don't stand in plain view." I relate to the CD in some ways.

Your OP is a bit unclear on the details, but it sounds like the big "offense" was getting into your wife's close-in space. Most Americans have an personal space boundary that wants strangers to be about arms length away. In many other parts of the world, standing within that zone, touching or almost touching, is acceptable. If this person did cross your wife's boundary, she is rightly creeped out, regardless of GG or CD/TS status. IMHO.

Rhonda

[Teresa]

Was your wife simply upset because her space was invaded or that the person was a CDer that got too close ? None of us like having our space invaded it's a defensive instinct ! I did have to smile when your wife commented on the CDer being overdone, I got a roasting from my wife for shopping in a supermarket covered in mud and not smelling too good ! What if someone had seen me she asked ? Poor men we can't get it right she would have asked the same thing if I'd been dressed in the supermarket !

[Sharon B.]

It could have been possible that what your wife thought was a CD was actually a natural woman. Now a days a person can't really tell and you surely can't tell about how one walks. Look at some woman that aren't used to walking in dress shoes but only walk around in sneakers. Put them in dress shoes or heels and watch them walk. It really sounds like she was upset with the spouse more then anything.

[Jodi]

I guess I'm also guilty of standing within 2-3 feet of a person in the grocery store while looking for something. Granted, I,m not dressed as a cd, but people do stand that close to others on occasion.

Personal opinion--your wife is paranoid or she is looking for a fight.

Jodi

[Tina_gm]

Here is my take. Your only slightly tolerant wife will always be uncomfortable with this. Welcome to the world of a majority of CDers who are married. JJoane, perhaps you need to accept that your wife will never find this aspect of you appealing and it will continue to cause her certain discomfort. Your wife has accepted that this is a part of you, and is staying with you regardless of her discomfort with it. Something I believe a majority of us CDers need to come to terms with when it comes to our S/O's, there will always be discomforting, awkward moments for them.

[Beverley Sims]

If your wife is that intolerant, I think you have a problem.

[Chickhe]

I think the message is that it works better if you try to fit in and have a real goal in place. The main goal of being dressed as a female is not a good idea because you end up in situations that are not normal. If you do dress and can encorporate it with doing some other activity you will have a better experience and fit in better.

...as for your wife she should not be so critical of people who are different.

[kimdl93]

Obviously, none of us was present to witness what went down in that grocery. I can only base my reaction to the OP. If the circumstances were as described, then I can understand why a woman might feel uncomfortable. Strangers - male or female - need to respect other people's sense of personal space and their comfort zone. Getting too close, lingering too long, even holding eye contact for too long can make people uncomfortable.

As someone who often shops en femme, I make it a point to respect other people's space.

[aprilgirl]

Being a peanut butter aficionado, I am sort on the fence here. Had the said offender been shopping for creamy is one thing. Were it the crunchy variety...please move along...there is nothing to see here. ;-)

[Carmen]

Johanne, I think that Tinkerbell-GG has it right. Your wife's concern is not with the CDer, it is with sending you a message.

It is unreasonable for a person to get annoyed about someone else looking at the same shelf in a store as they are. It happens to me just about every time I shop and there's nothing "creepy" about it.

A CDer has the same right to be out in public as anyone else. I don't intentionally make anyone uncomfortable, but I'm not going to allow someone to restrict my actions simply by claiming some obscure feeling of "creepiness". That is something that they will have to work out for themselves.

Eryn, very well written.

I shop for clothes, shoes, groceries, dine out, gamble, travel etc...all the while dressed from casual to fancy.
99.9% of the populace have been cordial towards me...from CD's to GG's.
The rest fit into that creepy .1 percent.

Just my thoughts.

[Nadine Spirit]

If you anticipate/expect seeing creepy behavior you will.

[CynthiaD]

I sounds like the CD in question wanted some peanut butter and was politely waiting for you wife to get out of the way.

[MsVal]

She said that it would have been just as creepy if the person was presenting male. Probably even if it were a GG presenting femme.

The issue seems to be the lack of respect for your wife's personal space. I can understand that. We should be doubly careful when our appearance is unusual for the place or time. E.g. Dirty work clothes are acceptable on a job site but would be out of place in a dress shop. If we can only shop for dresses after working, be more mindful of others' personal space.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Robin777]

By the way, she said you were too perfect. Your hair, your makeup, and your clothes were too good for 9PM at the grocery store. Your makeup was like a doll, she said.
.

Just my 2 cents on this, It could possibly have been a GG. At my last place of employment, We had a GG that worked there that would not go out into public unless she was dressed like a Barbie doll. She always came into work with high heels,perfect hair and makeup. She did not work in the office. This facility instituted a no-makeup policy because of clean room conditions that required the no makeup policy. Makeup was considered a generator of particulates. She lost her job over refusal to remove her makeup while at work. So, It could of been a GG. Since neither one of you have any evidence that the person that violated your wife's personal space is a crossdresser, I would not jump to conclusions. I would talk to your wife and find out why she was so upset over the whole incident. sounds to me like things need to be aired between you two. Just my opinion.

[Lucy_Bella]

Creeped out or not when it hits home it's hurtful..My ex use to make mean comments about men she would see who she thought had make up on or a ladies blouse .. She would be the sweetest person to their face but once that person was out of sight,watch out!! The hurtful comments came rolling out and I took them personal ( even though I never dressed around or in front of her) they hit home..

[sara lahna]

sounds like it was more they way she looked and not how she was standing.....

[devida]

Maybe not true for the person who may have been a guy or may not but I know I am far more considerate, polite, and careful of other people's space the more femme I dress and look than I ever was when I was just a guy. My SO would criticize the way I'd run over old ladies, push people out of the way and generally be quite unfriendly just out of the male privilege of being a big and threatening tattooed clueless dude. The world is far safer with me in women's clothes. I would have just shoved your wife out of the way to get the peanut butter and not even noticed she was there.

[jjjjohanne]

The lurker behind my wife did not select any product. They walked up behind my wife, stood there until she made eye contact, and then walked away. It was at 9:00 PM and the aisle was otherwise empty. But, just to make this point extremely clear, my wife was selecting creamy peanut butter.