Is it that "broad brushstroke" that you fear?

[Rogina B]

Through the power of reading responses to my other threads,I wonder if "the fear"..is really a fear of the labeling...If someone were to catch the closeted in a"****ty outfit" or discover someone shopping for women's shoes[one town over]..or discovered on the "commercial side" of this very website..They might be labeled or "branded till the end of time".. "Gay,queer,pervert,sicko,deviate,:))nutcase" might be part of the label that peers place on them.. There is sometimes discussion on this forum of"missed teaching opportunities" that educate others rather than accepting the labels given so freely by the uneducated. As an advocate in forwarding Transgender rights via inclusion in human rights protections here in NE Florida,my personal reward is from being a teacher,or educator..Transpeople are most likely very good humans,and have the same basic needs as other humans and should enjoy the same freedoms and protections that other humans have! So,rather than "wave the big flag" or take a" die in the ditch,last stand", I choose to be the "live specimen in the glass case" for all to see AND use a two way communicator to carry on discussion that will help lift this broad brush that some feel paints us in one swift stroke! And I am not ashamed of doing so!:)

[mechamoose]

-Disapproval
-Scorn
-Hatred

I have had friends end up in the hospital for being 'flagrant'.

[Lucy_Bella]

If this is the answer you are looking for I would like to give some insight from the spectrum that I apply myself to with all due respect..

The biggest fear is the loss of other peoples ( friend,family co workers etc I can careless about strangers) perception of your man hood..The first gender I would say for the mild GID people ..

[Beverley Sims]

In this day and age it is probably the unknown, along with what Mechamoose says.

[Marcelle]

I fear a lot of things . . . spiders . . . I hate those things (bad childhood experience). I fear being stuck for hours in an elevator with Stephan Harper listening to an endless loop of Justin Bieber and Celine Dionne songs with no coffee (Canadian thing). :)

Do I fear being labeled because I am TG? Nope. When I go out it is glaringly obvious I am a guy. If someone asks me a legitimate and civil question about being TG, I will respond and take the opportunity to educate where I can. If people choose to laugh and giggle at my expense then good for them . . . at least I made someone happy that day. Do I fear hatred, violence, altercation? Yes, but in this day and age "en boy" or "en femme" you would be foolish not to have a healthy sense of caution regardless of your gender expression. Will that stop me from living my life? Nope. When deployed a wise person told me (I am sure he got this quote from somewhere else) . . . "you can either get busy dying or get busy living" . . . I choose living. Fear just keeps us focused.

Hugs

Isha

[Kate Simmons]

I learned a long time ago that it's a lot easier to ask for "forgiveness" than it is for "permission". CDing is what makes a lot of us "free" it seems but do we have the courage to exercise that freedom by being who we are? That, my friend, is the million dollar question.:)

[Rogina B]

I challenge the two people [Mechamoose and Beverly Sims] to enlighten us as to the "normal circumstances" in the developed world where a "T person" would be in physical harm!! Think hard because in most cases,it is self inflicted...Tell us please!

[mechamoose]

I challenge the two people [Mechamoose and Beverly Sims] to enlighten us as to the "normal circumstances" in the developed world where a "T person" would be in physical harm!! Think hard because in most cases,it is self inflicted...Tell us please!

Did you ever see a movie called "The Crying Game"?

I have also (apparently) lived in poorer, more urban areas than you, where groups of young men without a lot to do call someone out on the street.

- MM

[Katey888]

I challenge the two people [Mechamoose and Beverly Sims] to enlighten us as to the "normal circumstances" in the developed world where a "T person" would be in physical harm!! Think hard because in most cases,it is self inflicted...Tell us please!

I think we can go beyond just Bev and MM there, Rogina. You don't have to trawl the web much to bring up some horrific stats on TG assaults and you might want to think about rephrasing or clarifying 'self-inflicted' ... but please take the time to Google 'transgender assaults' and read some of the cases before you do... they are extensive and scary.

In the right environment and long-term I'd agree that education is the way forward - for pretty much everything. But again I think it needs the right environment and some reason for the audience to be receptive.

Isha's recent 'field study' with her GGF trailing her course illustrates the nature of the problem. Many folk here believe they are doing some good by simply getting out there and mixing with the muggles... :cheer: Well, they might be doing some good, but on the other hand... Isha's trial showed that while the experience of the subject may appear to be positive, the residual feeling in the audience once the subject has passed by, may not be... If that happens in the wrong environment, it's easy to see how fear of physical assault can be very real. I'm afraid I don't see us simply heading out for a shopping trip as much of a teaching opportunity, in all honesty... just my :2c:

And the other fear described here is no less real, nor it's impact potentially much less damaging - for families, SOs, loved ones... It's not right that people think the way they do, and that's why education - I fully agree - is key. It's finding the right way to do that AND providing some measure of enforceable protection that's the tough part. I'm all for that... but it's a long haul, and it would be good to garner some support from the folks here... somehow... :)

Katey x

[Marcelle]

Hi Rogina,

Violence and hate is a sad fact of human nature and while we are capable of great empathy and kindness, the flip side of the coin is still prevalent. Yes, it is more likely that people will ignore us when out and about or they would prefer to mock us behind our backs but in the end we are a curiosity at best. Some people will be kind and empathetic (I have met them) but others can be overtly hostile in posture and look (have met them as well). The only thing that keeps them going all Spartacus Smack Down is the venues I choose (malls, family restaurants, public transport, daytime).

Short of having some mental malfunction I highly doubt some "knuckle dragger, tranny hating dude" is going to come running over and lay a slipper dance of death on my head in the middle of a family restaurant or mall. He is more likely to just stew in his juices and mutter under his breath. It doesn't make his hate any less (just subdued). However let's bear no illusion, if given the right environment/opportunity, his retribution might be fast and swift much to my peril. :beatup: This is why a healthy sense of fear is required if you decide to go out and about "en femme" . . . it keeps you focused and alert.

I have been lucky . . . so far. The balance of probabilities do not weigh well in my favor. I am likely (when I least expect it) to have a physical altercation at some junction. Will it be vicious and life threating? Possibly, but it is more likely to be an "in your face . . . I hate you so do something about it" altercation. I am ready for that and luckily my training makes me capable of handling such a situation (obviously within reason). However, for those who are not ready . . . tread cautiously because it is not all sunshine, lollipops and unicorns out there. Sometimes you get lions, tigers and bears . . . oh my (especially if you wander off the yellow brick road) and there may be no ruby slippers to click three times and take you home.

I am not trying to frighten people but sometimes a little fear is a good thing as it keeps us from doing silly things we regret.

Hugs

Isha

[Rogina B]

Katey,The forum members tend to have some socioeconomic advantage,as a rule.Trolling the web for instances of violence against transpeople may be real,however,look at the general violence out there as well.. It is very unlikely that a forum member is going to encounter a problem if they use their smarts. If they don't,they could get in just as much of a mess anyway. So,just what percentage of people in the developed world realize that,like sexual preference,people are born this way more often than not?They need to have that explained to them,and be able to ask related questions.Here in the South,some of us are working to educate those that we feel can be.There is a population of haters,that based on their beliefs,refuse to believe science or anything else progressive.They are just afraid of reality and all we can do is defuse their opposition toward anyone different. However,I haven't seen any angry mobs of them lying in wait in the grocery store parking lot! This is 2014,after all.

[jackie_p]

Rogina

You don't have to trawl the web. Look up the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Lots of interesting statistics regarding how we are treated as a class of people. The numbers are FAR higher than the general population and too broad scoped to be limited to lower socioeconomic member of the group.

[CarlaWestin]

This discussion conjures a memorie. Before my divorce many years ago the ex dolled me all up and did my makeup and took a picture. I've posted it here before. That picture was shown about to her whole family while they were in rage mode and I can only imagine what narrow minded labels I acquired. A few years after things had calmed down I was invited to one of their family dinner functions. As I was pulling out a chair to sit next to my daughter's cousin, an 8 year old boy, his mother said, "Oh no! Oh never mind. It's OK to sit next to _____." My reply, "Well, it's certainly better than sitting next to a narrow minded hater like you!"

At this point in life, I'm just so passed all of the narrow minded assumptions that pedestrian life forms carry. And I couldn't care less as I get older.

[jessica76]

There is a negative side to being caught, but what about the positive? If someone were to discover your other side and label you as gay, queer, sissy etc. you would in a way be free to be what you really want to be. If a guy like to wear a dress what is the problem? Yes close minded individuals would scorn you.

I have been caught a few times by various people. The first couple I tried to deny it. Now I don't care. The only thing I am hesitant about is people from my career life finding out.

[Nadine Spirit]

I don't doubt that hate violence occurs; it is a fact that it does. I am curious though of how many of you have personally experienced it. Not a look, not something that was said, but actual beat downs.

I ask as it seems to be a topic within this thread. But also because it is what I most feared when I first ventured out of the house, and I have yet to be in any situation that it was even close. At this point if it happens I think it would simply be because in life occasionally stuff happens, and I did not increase my chances of it happening because I was dressed as a girl.

[Teresa]

Hi Rogina,
According to " Crossdressers Wives " there are 8.6 million CDres in America, obviously a conservative figure and I assume that doesn't include TS/TG and other groups. The point I'm making is you're probably waving the flag for a larger group than you think, so perhaps the flag waving should start there to convince them the labels are just empty words that don't truly describe them. I'm afraid that GGs generate much of the name calling but it's not their fault they don't understand the dual strand running in most of us, a few want to become male but the majority don't have a male side so the need to CD is almost meaningless, many of us say that our partners tolerate but less fully accept. I think that one is going to take a lot of flag waving.

[kimdl93]

When deployed a wise person told me (I am sure he got this quote from somewhere else) . . . "you can either get busy dying or get busy living"

Hugs

Isha

The first time I heard that expression it was uttered by Red, Morgan Freeman's character in The Shawshank Redeption. Great movies.

Now to the OP I was outed by a spiteful ex to pretty much anyone and everyone meaningful to me in my life. Quite a few mentioned it to me and I suppose that many figured it was at least partially true...where there's smoke there's fire, right? And my closest family members had the context of my early childhood and teen years to relate to. So I was out. Anyway, the upshot was that I had to go on living despite the embarrassment and did so. I don't seem to have lost any friends, my career has been unaffected and my large family still is supportive.

To borrow a line from a good friend, "the best revenge is a life well lived"

[Allisa]

I had to read your post a couple of times to get your gest so first yes I believe that broad stroke is a fear of many, I myself have allways lived on the left of " normal" so I have been pigeon-holed so many times all I can say is coo. As far as educating others I have allways been open for questions from whom ever asks whether I have enlightened anyone,whose to know. An old saying comes to mind "there are non so blind as those who will not see". But as I have said before my fears are of the harm or embarrassment of my family they do not need my onus upon them.I believe part of my response to you can be found in my response to your other thread from yesterday.

As allways Lisa

[bridget thronton]

As I get older - my fear of the "broad brush" is less and less. Perhaps it is because it is because I have become more accepting of all people who may be labeled LGBT (including myself)

[sometimes_miss]

Transgender 'rights' don't automatically change how we live. In another thread, we discovered what the general public REALLY thinks about us after we are out of hearing distance, and it's not nice. Just as blacks, asians, gays, etc., have found out, having your 'rights' written into law does not stop people from thinking bad things about you for no reason, or doing bad things to you behind your back (or god forbid, attacking you openly). I'll avoid any brush strokes in my direction, thank you very much.

[Tracii G]

Nadine to answer your "beat down" question yes I have.
I had 3 20 something guys start hassle me in front of a store. After a few choice word slingings from both parties and them saying they were going to kick my *** I said OK let the big one go first with a smirky smile on my face.
I guess the fear of being beaten by a guy in drag was too much they got in their car and left.
Second time I was armed so upon them noticing that they left me alone.
Do I like to fight? I used to I won't deny that but these days I'm a different person and would rather be left alone.

[sanderlay]

A broad brushstroke is certainly troubling, especially when I may not have opened my mouth to tell my side of my life. People assume, and sometimes gossip, even though we have been told time and time again what ass-u-me means, and go to the horses mouth if you want the real facts about a person. Stereo typing a person seems like the easy route to understanding a person. Only problem is we have not learned a thing. We've made false assumptions that paint a picture that does not match reality of who that person is. So if we talk to them. Now we may get an understanding, but that is only a snap shot of that moment in time. So how do we really get to know someone? You need to walk a mile or more in their shoes. Experience life from their point of view. Then you might understand a person and what they might feel, what they experience.

Do I fear being misunderstood? Sure. But I don't let that fear control me or paralyze me. I'm not a freak, a pervert, deviant, etc... Because I'm just breaking with social convention, going outside the gender binary, I should expect people to wonder who I am. When I'm polite, considerate and respectful to them when they speak to me I may have just educated another person if they have an open mind. I'm under no illusion of what could happen. Again... I don't let that fear control me or paralyze me.

So yes I may appear to be another... "live specimen in the glass case" for all to see. But I'm not a lab rat. I'm a fellow human being trying to respect other humans despite what I may hear behind my back. Live and let live.

[gennee]

I shopped for women's clothing in male and female mode. Never bothered me.


:)

[Genifer Teal]

Does anyone else hate what Rupaul's Drag Race does to us? I hate being painted with those broad's brush strokes. :-) This has nothing to do with the gay stigma. I watch how those whiney biotches act and get mortified that this is what the public is being "trained" to think of us. They dress for completely different reasons. The entire show has nothing to do with me expect for the fact that people see me as a man in a dress and there in lies the problem.

[Stephanie47]

There are numerous cases of violence against individuals based on the victims identity or perceived identity; race, color, creed, national origin, sexual orientation. That's why there are laws with the label "hate crimes." Yes, I'm fairly sure I can avoid "hate crimes" by being careful of where and what I do. When a person beats the living crap out of you because of your status at least you know where the assaulter is coming from. His hate is obvious. What is not obvious is the people: family, friend, neighbor, coworker, who will slowly drift away and leave you standing alone. I really do not think too many people are tolerant of a guy in a dress.

[MsVal]

My wife and children did not sign up for that duty but would be caught up in it. I love them more than I love you (the collective you), I will work toward their protection and comfort before I work toward yours, and if there is ever a conflict, theirs is the side on which I will stand.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Lorileah]

Does anyone else hate what Rupaul's Drag Race does to us? Not just that show, I add virtually every movie made that people here worship (I exclude Crying Game and Soldier's Girl and any that portray "us" as humans and not clowns or perverts). I hate it when someone I meet says "Hey I have nothing against you , I watch RuPaul"


I will work toward their protection and comfort before I work toward yours, and if there is ever a conflict, theirs is the side on which I will stand. So what if your child is gay...or TG? Just wondering when you would start working toward protection of others.

I have fear. I face fear almost everyday. I have placed myself in a category where I am considered less by certain elements. But I don't cower, I am just more vigilant. Fear can be healthy, it makes you aware. I try desperately to not put myself in a position when I don't have an "out". I have done that my whole life (Isha knows that when you make a plan in the military you always plan an out). The other night after a friend and I had dinner and were walking back to the car a man ( I assume homeless but that is profiling) started walking behind us saying "You are both ****s" Best thing for us to do was head to the car in a short line. I had my keys in hand. We didn't press the matter. 20 years ago, I would have confronted him but now I think "to what end...you beat a person who is down and out?" We were prepared had the situation escalated and this was in the upper class area of the city. I have known people who were attacked, I know people who were sexually attacked. I keep that in my mind when I am out. It could have happened no matter how I present, it is just more likely now.

[kimdl93]

If it's fear of violence that this thread is about, I have to say it is a decidedly overblown fear. I would say, look at the stats . The victims of violence in our society are overwhelmingly poor. The incidences of assault on TG people almost without exception occur in poor neighborhoods and often late at night. I know some of us live in such environs, but most of us do not. I would further venture that it's fear of social reproach and economic loss, more so than physical violence which keeps most of us from being more open and active.

[mechamoose]

People ARE much more accepting now than they were in the 80's or 90's, which is when my and my friend's experiences occurred.

It depends on where you live. I grew up on the border of a city's good neighborhood and bad. One street south were idyllic homes, gardens, a cathedral.. one street north were all 3 story buildings with poor family apartments. By the time I was 18 and moved out, we had one building fire on the north side every couple of weeks. Walking into downtown from where I lived went through that neighborhood, and ones that were worse. CDing in that environment? You wouldn't last a week.

My friend was a gay man who did drag. He was a pretty boy, and really dressed up nicely. He got beaten up in *Salem* (MA) of all places... one of the funkiest, accepting communities I have lived in ever.. almost as liberal as Cambridge (MA). While more accepting for Pagans, pagan folk tend to accept oddities as 'features' rather than flaws. Cambridge was better on the LGBT side...

I remember having a couple that my mate and I had known online for years down to visit from Canada. I went down to Cambridge with the male (Ian, cute man. I miss you) and we walked around town holding hands. He was super nervous. "You can do this here? I couldn't do this at home!"

It is all relative. I have family who live in Texas and Tennessee. I will (grudgingly) visit my family in TX, but there is no way in hell I will go to TN. I wouldn't come back.

<3

- MM

[Wildaboutheels]

Nope, not at all. Because I happen to agree with a couple of expressions.

Ignorance is bliss.

Knowledge is power.

I also am a firm believer that "Actions speak louder than words".

Especially when "words" are simply people whining about unfair things are.

This country did not become a "free" one because of people whining.
.
The only way to change people's minds is to lead by example.

A NIMBY attitude helps no one.

[sandra-leigh]

Do not forget the Transgender Day of Remembrance, which records outright murders. Many of them are "second world" or "third world" (Brazil can be terribly deadly), but a number of them are not.

I could cite a murder that occurred about 2 1/2 years ago in the city I live in. Arson. The case is still going through the judicial system so I cannot indicate what I have been told about what happened.

Or I could relay to you what one of the local woman said in a presentation to CPATH, Canadian Professional Association for Transgender Health, for which I was in the audience in September 2012. The same day a trans relative of the panelist died of wound received from a beating a few months before; if I recall the panelist indicated that that was the fifth of her trans friends or relatives that had been murdered.

[mechamoose]

WildAboutHeels, This isn't just about Chutzpah. (as much as I admire that)

Out and Proud is awesome, but it costs something.

I'm prepared to pay the social costs of being 'different'. Not all of us are there. You can't give of yourself unless you have enough to support yourself.

I get p**sed *ff too. I'm tired of being a punchline. But I also see that we have sisters & brothers who are not as secure or in a confident place like we are. We cut the weeds and make a path for them. We take the shots so they don't have to.

<3

- MM

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Rogina, When you get to a certain age you don't let the little things worry you.

[Momarie]

"The victims of violence in our society are overwhelmingly poor".


No they aren't...

The victims of violence in our society are overwhelmingly Women, at the hands of Men.

[giuseppina]

Sorry, Momarie, but I don't agree. Men may have a near monopoly on physical violence, but psychological violence is an even split based on the statistics I've seen. It's rarely prosecuted because the injuries are not visible or easily measureable.

[PaulaQ]

It isn't just violence that's an issue - getting painted by a "broad brushstroke" as TG means that you are getting subjected to a bunch of random contradictory, untrue, and highly negative stereotypes. At best, this really sucks - at worst it'll cost you your marriage, friends, and livelihood. You can face real discrimination, something relatively unknown to many on this forum in their male lives. Being treated as an "other" can be incredibly tough.

[CarlaWestin]

I hate it when someone I meet says "Hey I have nothing against you , I watch RuPaul"

Or, how about, "I guess if you want to prance around in a dress, it's your business."
I don't effing prance!

[DebbieL]

Slaves were taught to fear the whip so much that simply cracking it over their heads would make them cringe in terror. This was because every time a slave was defiant, the defiant slave, whose slight may have been as simple as looking a "cracker" in the eye, would be chained to a post and whipped with a bull-whip. The person using the whip didn't want to seriously damage the slave, but he wanted to create a lot of pain along with that cracking noise. They would make sure that the actual tail of the whip would slap against the wood. The screams of the victim along with the crack were so closely associated that the sound alone would create fear as real as if they were the ones being whipped. Usually as teens, they would try to be defiant, especially the boys, but after one or two rounds on the post, they never wanted to experience it again.

For me, the "Whipping post" started when I was 6 years old. Being called a "Sissy" didn't mean that much, especially since our teacher had explained that "Sissy" was slang for "Sister" like "Buddy" was slang for "Brother". But when the name was followed by being pelted with rocks, or being kicked by a dozen boys like a soccer ball, or being hit with sticks about the size of baseball bats, the fear became real, so real that because of the beatings over the next 6 years, I was hospitalized over 60 times, often with severe asthma attacks.

Even when the beatings stopped, the names, and there were many, had been so associated with terror and pain, that even as an adult, hearing someone shout "faggot" or "queer", would make me wince and start looking for the exits and the fire alarms (best way to stop an assault in life-or-death situations).

Some of the more subtle stunts, like singing "Lola" or "Dude Looks Like a Lady" weren't as terrifying, and I would sometimes start singing along, smile at them, and congratulate them for their observational skills, and ask if they had any questions. There were often a LOT of questions, and they would actually be impressed with my honesty and authenticity.

These days, I almost never get confronted in any form. Part of this is because people don't see me as anything other than a woman now. Even the TSA agents have a hard time believing that I was once a guy.