no hrt for me...

[bas1985]

Hi,

this is a difficult post for me and I have mixed emotions, strong
fear, sense of loss, of self betrayal.

Today I had the appointment with the gender clinic to have the
assessment of my therapy in these months.

She said that, although I have clearly "signs of GID", I have a pretty
much messy situation with my ex wife (this is true) and she does not
know how HRT emotionally could act on my spirit.

Moreover she said that during my life I have repressed GID in order to
have the project of a family realized, because I felt the loss of a family
in my childhood and she want me to continue therapy in order to know
if I have repressed GID to make a family as a husband because my
desire for family was stronger or GID was weaker, or both, or some
combination of.

...

She said to halt the gender therapy and to continue "normal" therapy,
she volunteered to talk to my normal therapist in order to instruct him
of my journey, what to analyze better, what to grasp.

---

She said that I had a "good" reaction. Well, I was petrified... I am a very
rational person, I said that I am also spiritual and that I tend to see the
"hand of God" everywhere and I told her that maybe her stop had a sense,
and that in any case the journey was worth it.

But how to continue MY life????

I have started long ago to present feminine and I feel better, my voice
passes, maybe my face not so much, but I really felt better in girl mode,
I also had found recently a really supportive LGBT group.

I have to give up Marina without hormones. This town is small, I could
go out in girl mode because there was a "history", a "reason", I was in
assessment. But now that the assessment is over and it has said no
I would be a cross dresser, which I am not (nothing wrong with x-dressing,
but I am not a CD)... instead I feel myself as Marina, I...

...really have had a good time as HER in these 10 months. Her inside AND outside,
even without hormones, just living as a normal woman. I was accepted,
apart from the mess with my wife... life could have been OK.

I turned home, conscious that these were the last steps as Marina,
dressed as Marina, feeling well as HER, as ME.

I turned the key in the door, the mirror reflected me, the female me, hurt and repressed, wounded and internally raped female.

I started crying, "good bye, Marina".

I cried and cried, but eventually I realized that this is not really a good bye.

I AM a woman, this fact no gender clinic is going to repress. I may halt to
present as a woman, but Marina has lived in me, she is still here, there is
a void, though, this sense of hopelessness, choicelessness, hurt and pain.

But also gratitude.

Gratitude to Marina, and also to you. all.

I have had a difficult life, and maybe this is really the "voice of God" that halts
me before doing a mistake, who knows. Even if now I feel lonely, hurt,
helpless, hopeless... maybe this is OK.

I repressed my GID also for being afraid of you, in general, as a "category". I was
raised catholic and anything variant was sin. My journey as Marina has brought
me to know you online and some T-women in real life. It was worth it.

My heart is filled with gratitude.

I do not know if, after reading the answers to this post and commenting, if
I will return to post here.

I do not know even if I have the RIGHT to return, given that a formal Italian gender
clinic specialized in trans sexuality has said me "stop!". Maybe they are right.
Maybe not. Maybe I have to fix the divorce mess before, and this is not
a real good bye but a "later" (whenever later may be).

I have to return HIM, but I really do not know how to be HIM any more.
What a pity...

[I Am Paula]

I am sorry, I can't even begin to feel your sense of loss. I have followed your posts from the beginning, and although I'm not an expert, you certainly sound like a candidate for HRT. The Italian system, at first just sounded complex. Now I think it's crazy. The best person on earth to determine your fitness, and commitment for changing sex is YOU! Please find a way to continue your path. Leave the country if you must. I read you words, saying that this may work out for the better, but the tone says otherwise. Someone just tried to kill the woman you were destined to be. This is not the voice of a benevolent God. This is the voice of a lop sided medical system that can't recognize a woman from a man.
I wish you all the best in the world. Stay well my friend.

[Annaliese]

Marina, You don't have to stop being who you are continue being your self. You have the right to tell the therapist that you want to continue with her. You need to explore this more.

[PaulaQ]

Honey, find a better therapist. Not all are gatekeepers. Some of them want emotional stability from people who are crumbling under really debilitating GD, and this simply isn't going to happen for some of us without HRT.

[Jonianne]

....But how to continue MY life????....

I am so sad for you and the gatekeeping that is going on in your life. I couldn't imagine how you must feel. I, too, am a believer in the spiritual aspect of every part of our lives and if you are a woman, I believe things will eventually work out so you can be able to openly live as yourself. Be encouraged and just keep "Pressing On", like in a Gospel song Bob Dylan wrote, that has encouraged me many times:

"Many try to stop me, shake me up in my mind,.....

Well I'm pressing on
Yes, I'm pressing on
Well I'm pressing on
To the higher calling of my Lord.

Shake the dust off of your feet, don't look back.
NOTHING NOW CAN HOLD YOU DOWN, NOTHING THAT YOU LACK".....

[Rianna Humble]

This is a very bitter blow, but it seems to me that the clinician wants to ensure that other issues intertwined with your Gender Dysphoria are resolved before launching into treating your transsexuality.

As for the question of whether you have the right to post in this section, it is very clear - you are a member of crossdressers.com so you have the right to post.

I hope that you manage to get the clarity with the other therapist and also that you will continue to post here.

[JohnH]

I don't have a lot to say about M2F HRT, but in my case I feel it has been a lifesaver for me. All I can do is tell what that has meant in my life.

I used to have a really violent tempter and drink quite heavily. I also really felt depressed. My wife told me recently that when I went through that stage she was contemplating leaving me. Over Christmas she told me she really prefers me on the HRT, and I no longer have the depression. She does tell me from time to time that I am not a man. :)

So, maybe you need to at least move away from your town so you can make a fresh start and perhaps find yourself a different therapist.

Johanna

[Starling]

I'm no expert, Marina, but it seems to me that not having found a definitive answer to why you suppressed your GID is a pretty poor reason for denying you treatment. Isn't it enough that you suppressed your GID?!

I don't see how HRT could have any but positive effects on your situation, as you describe it. And treatment could certainly be stopped if it did more harm than good. Your therapist's action sounds to me like what we call "passing the buck." I feel very angry for you, honey.

*We know that one can begin HRT before transitioning, and that some even find that HRT alone is enough to make them feel whole. Why would it not be possible to see if there were a positive benefit to commencing HRT while in "normal" therapy?

Whatever happens, though, I wish you the best.

:) Lallie

[VanTG]

I sense a lot of spirituality in this as well as a therapist who may be a little biased to not treating you how you truly are. You have GID. If you want to start HRT, find a different therapist as others have said. We humans can change sex if we are not comfortable, other animals change sex, such as a clownfish, butterflies, and many more, and god gave doctors the ability to perform SRS as well as scientists the ability to utilize hormones for other human beings.

I say keep on with your Journey.

[bas1985]

due to time zone difference I am reading your answers here, at 7.30, at breakfast.

First I thank for all your answers.

The Italian system is fragmented and not all centers follow the WPATH guidelines. The Turin center follows guidelines stricter which
are called ONIG (an Italian acronym that means National Observatory on Gender Identity).

There may be other routes possible for HRT, for example going to a center that follows WPATH and does not require a full therapy before
giving the green flag, for example Genova is one of those, and it is not far from here.

But, before trying to open the closed door, I would like to know if this "closing" has a deeper meaning. Maybe it is just a test, to know
my reactions, my next steps. Remember that the social workers knew my intention of transition, and they most likely had a
talk with the Turin center (not 100% sure, but it might have happened).

As Rianna has correctly said, yesterday the message was: "Your life and your kids' life are in a turmoil, moreover you invested
all your life in the construction of a family, you suppressed GID for so long, so maybe your GID is not so strong... or
your investment in a family was very important" (I suppose the latter, I had always a "duty first" approach at things, and
family was my "duty", my desire for a "normalcy").

Thank you, again.

[DebbieL]

I've been in your shoes too many times. This is by no means the final verdict. The concern here is that you have not (yet) structured your life to support your transition. Unfortunately, telling you to have "normal" therapy with a "normal" therapist is probably the WORST thing she could do. You need someone who understands the spectrum of gender dysphoria. It will be important to monitor your gender conformity against your emotional state.

I was a type 6 transsexual and there were a number of times when events told me that I was condemned to live the rest of my life as a man, and I would attempt to kill myself, or have someone kill me. Even after admitting the suicide attempt, they would ask me why I did it, and I told them, "I want to be a girl and since this body can't be a girls, I just want to reincarnate". EVEN after spelling it out that clearly, they would tell me "We can't talk about your gender issues, we need to get down to root causes".

Don't give up and don't assume that this is the final state. You want to make it clear to your therapist that you ultimate goal is to transition, and if he or she can't help you with that, they should refer you to some other therapist who can. Therapists often have their own issues, religion, sexuality, or emotional baggage that may prevent them from being able to even communicate with you about these issues that are the core.

However, before you can even prepare to transition, you need to look at your own past, your resentments, your fears, your hopes, your dreams, and look at the ways you have responded when you were afraid of losing something you didn't want to lose or getting something you didn't want to get. You will need to forgive others and ask their forgiveness, clean up the mess in other areas of your life. This will be like digging and pouring a really good solid foundation on which to build your post-transition life. When you transition, every part of your life will change. Even if you do manage to stay married, the nature of your relationship will change. You may have to let go of many things you held dear. You may have to deal with some changes you don't like. But once you start living your life authentically, you will start to come through the other side of the long dark tunnel of change. You will make new friends, you may have a new love, you may have a new job, you may even have new children, or your children will treat you differently. The important thing is that if you are prepared for it and don't run back to the safety - you have a much better chance of not getting stuck in the middle of the tunnel and then giving up, unable to go back to the familiar because that leads to misery, but unable to go forward into the unknown because you have no evidence to believe that it will be better.

My greatest fear when I started to transition, was that I would transition, perhaps completely, and yet I would end up failing to pass, failing to be happy, and possibly end up rejected and alone by everyone. I even feared that I would end up in a homeless shelter or under a bridge, or as the hostess of the parties at the local jail or prison. When I began to face those fears, they lost their power to control me. Eventually, I did lose many things I didn't want to lose, even though I didn't transition right away. When I was finally ready to let it ALL go if necessary, I had reached the point where I was ready to transition powerfully and effectively.

I started my transition in 1988, and I didn't reach full time status with breasts until 2013. By the time I was evaluated for medically supervised hormones, there was absolutely no question in anybody's mind that this was the right thing for me to do. Today, I'm happier and healthier than I've been in 40 years, and for much longer as well. Even the bad days are better than my best days as Rex.

[trisha kobichenko]

hi marina,
I haven't sought gender therapy, since it may not be necessary to coordinate my position on what i call my 'gender scale'. What I would like to say is that my position on a gender scale between male and female is my decision, not something a therapist will determine based on a cursory evaluation of responses. Decide who you are, where you are, and where you need to go to get where you need to be.
hugs,
trish

[Persephone]

Marina, my thoughts and prayers are with you. If I could reach across the ocean I would certainly give you a hug.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[Ann Louise]

Those weren't your last steps Marina. You're down to the real work of this. You've heard transition was the most difficult thing in most of our lives, it has been for me, and this cold water in the face is making that even more clear, no? Think clearly as you can, love yourself, and one step at a time. Your friend Ann

[bas1985]

well, this is it, anyway.

In Italian there is a proverb: "when God closes a door, He opens a gate"... so it is pointless to try to open the closed door, energies are better suited to find the opened gate. I tend to see meaning in all things, even outside my control, as the gatekeepers' decision. Living as Marina in these 10 months has led me to insights of my being which will be precious even if I could not transition in my life.

In any case transition to avoid war is not good, and the real challenge is to build peace around me and then, only then, transition.

My "male" id has created a mess and I have to fix it. Marina has not the responsibility for that.

[becky77]

This is a very bitter blow, but it seems to me that the clinician wants to ensure that other issues intertwined with your Gender Dysphoria are resolved before launching into treating your transexuality.

I believe this to be the most honest reply here. I'm afraid you sound conflicted by your spiritual feelings.
If god has closed that door on you, why did he give you the strength to live as yourself for the last ten months?
Some would say god gave you a man's body, so accept what you have been given.
I'm more inclined to say it was an accident of nature, and god is giving you the strength to find your own path. It's difficult for me to say as I'm not religious, but I respect other people's beliefs.
However you have asked for advise on here. To me you are waiting for someone or some divine influence to make your choices for you.
You have received a real knockback, I'm sorry about that. But you need to pick yourself up and find another way. You don't have to be a man to solve your problems, you say you have been living successfully as a woman for ten months, why not continue? Prove them wrong.
Where there is a will, there is a way.

I wish you the best of luck.

[bas1985]

Thanks for the answer. Today I will go to the psychiatrist and I will try to get the "real" motivation of this stop. Because Friday I spoke with the psychologist but maybe she has not the broader picture.

Yes, I have been Marina for 10 months, without hormones and in a provincial city (less than 100,000 citizens) without any problems, maybe without
passing all the time but with respect and several genuine smiles.

That is not a thing to forget... I really want to know this afternoon if this stop should be intended like:

1. you HAVE gid, but you must fix your life before transition.

2. you DO NOT have GID, and your past trauma have brought you to think otherwise.

if she tells me that most probably it is 2 then... even if I FEEL female, maybe she is right... sometimes we do not have
the rational insight to judge ourselves.

if she tells me that it is 1, (the option of Rianna), well, I can hope to fix things and transition later, and take these 10 months as a
pre-hrt experiment.

[mechamoose]

I hesitated to say anything on this thread because I'm in a whole different world than you, but my nurturing instincts spoke louder. I just want to cry for you. /hug

But I was going to say something like what Rianna Humble said. I got the impression it was a 'Not Now', rather than a 'No'.

Hang in there. You are who you are.

<3

- MM

[bas1985]

update...

I have talked to the psychiatrist and she gave to me a "delayed" letter, I don't know how to call it.

The letter more or less says:


Mr. XY has come to this center for Gender Disphorya to be treated as the law n.... for the reassignment of birth gender... etc.. after the following tests and interviews on (dates)... etc... the team has decided, taking note of his personal situation, that a longer period of therapy is suggested before starting
HRT, also to address the subjective discomfort of Gender Disphoria.

The Doc. XX (the psychologist in the gender clinic) will contact Doc. ZZ (the "normal" therapist) to inform him of what has been collected during the observation period to provide to Mr. XY (me) the continuity of therapy.


She said that this is more or less a "delayed" yes, so Rianna was right.

I am a Transsexual, (well! I knew...), but they are worried that my personal situation (small kids and a difficult divorce) could be troublesome
if I started HRT right now.

I am aware of that and I think that this, all in all, is a good decision. I will continue to go to therapy and, after the family situation is stabilized, I can
return and I would pass to HRT without any more gatekeeping.

So... Marina exists. It was not a fantasy or a delusional object made from past trauma.

[mechamoose]

It will be ok, sweetie. Get your personal stuff in order and the rest will follow.

- MM