A new push towards cd acceptance

[Melissa in SE Tn]

There have been several recent threads posted concerning when / if there will ever be public acceptance of crossdressing . Last Friday afternoon I was in my car , listening to NPR, when they ran a story about Hollywood's push to make crossdressing the new item de jour . Specifically , they addressed that some in Hollywood now see their presentment / storylines of the LGBT's to be boring & passé. LGBT , once seen as odious , has now become accepted on television, in movies , in the theater & in American politics. Hollywood is now looking for towards transgendered / transfluid as the new storyline since LGBT themes are now old news. The story went on to mention examples of tg's shown prominently in tv shows such as Glee & House of Florence. There reportedly will be a big push in those shows for more tg character development. They mentioned recent movies such as Dallas Buyers Club & Boys Don't Cry as examples of tg character development. The success of those movies reportedly will spur more tg movie scripts , etc .. What wasn't mentioned was that there are at least 3 Broadway plays with tg story lines with all 3 receiving multiple Tony award nominations.

It would appear that there may be some light at the end of our cd tunnel concerning public acceptance of us. The entertainment world is making a concerted push in our direction . Hopefully , those presentations will portray tg's as normal , loving & caring souls & not as sick perverted individuals . Many of you were hoping for public acceptance . That wish may become a reality sooner than later.

[Nadine Spirit]

Very cool story on NPR. I wonder how much impact this will have and in what arenas.

One of my favorite's is Eddie Izzard. He used to do many of his shows while dressed as a woman, but no more, at least for quite some time. I have read that while he considers himself to be a lifelong cross dresser he found it difficult to get the roles he wanted in Hollywood with presenting as a woman. Thus he is not publicly showing that side of himself so much anymore. Another interesting thing, Jessica Who, whom most of you know, she has taken down pretty much any internet reference to herself. Is it just a coincidence that she moved to Hollywood to pursue an acting career and now you can't find her on the internet anymore as a cross dresser? I mean it is purely speculation on my part, but it is kind of odd that her internet presence has been almost entirely erased.

I think that while TG roles are becoming more common, being a cross dresser is still something that Hollywood does not know how to deal with.

[Rachael Leigh]

What would be a real story would be better, not necessarily for acceptance but how when this is part of a marriage and how it affects the relationship.
So much of what Ive seen in the LGBT community seems to exclude heterosexual relationships as if they cant be a part.
I myself am honest enough here that I dont always agree with that agenda but I do understand why they feel at times they must push.
For many of us here we struggle with being male most of the time but having a part of ourselves that wishes to express in what would be a very female world.
I think in the LGBT community we are a big minority.
Just my opinion

[AllieSF]

This is something that I have seen in the last few years since I started this other side of my life, as more and more of the media are including some part of the "T" in the LGBT spectrum in their programs. There are some in the past like the movie The Crying Game and Transamerica, which dealt directly with a transwoman coming out and trying to live her life, and then some of the main stream television programs like Friends (Chandler's dad transitioned to a woman and showed up at his wedding that way, handled humorously and, at least to me, respectfully), Boston Common with William Shatner had someone working in the office who crossdressed, some of the Fox adult cartoon programs mix in the varying sides of the "T", and so on.

Many here cry foul when we are included in these type of programs in a humorous or not totally respectful way. However, Milton Berle, if anyone is old enough to remember him, as well as, the black comedian Flip Wilson incorporated the concept of crossdressing into one of their many characters years ago and no one ever made a big deal of it. Would these same complainers of today demand a boycott of those early episodes and characters?

It all helps. The more the general public sees us in real life or through the media in all of our various forms, both good and bad (and both do exist) the more they can learn about us and begin to realize that we are not a threat to them and their lives. It is just one other type of education, being exposed to that which we may never have been exposed to before. Yes, sometimes those first impressions may not be the best, but they are only the first ones. Over time these same people after multiple exposures will learn that we are only different and not bad. I always believe that most people are sane enough and practical enough to see that, yes, something may be different and not to their liking, AND that even though it is not to their liking it really causes no harm to anyone and has no affect on them and those around them. They begin to learn to live and let live.

I, therefore, am very happy to see more of this and other efforts to get us and who we are out in front of others in all our many forms by means of the media.

[Teresa]

Melissa very interesting thread, one problem could be being accused of jumping on the band wagon, I'm afraid to the general public we will never get it right, let's try and be optimistic.
The media has regressed some, during the late sixties early seventies light entertainment, theatre and film had an innocent coming out period, I'm sure we can all remember a show or a film that blatantly showed Cding especially linked to the flower power and free love period.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Nadine, for your information ,NPR just interviewed Eddie Izzard in New York . He is beginning a U. S. tour . You might want to check out his tour dates. Peace, Mel

[Elkeliini]

albert Knobbs.... movie 2011. nuf said.

[PaulaQ]

Hon, if y'all want social acceptance, you need to come out and stand up for yourselves. You really do.

[Nadine Spirit]

Nadine, for your information ...

I am up on that. Thanks. What I am waiting for is for him to set some west coast dates. They have yet to announce them. I know they are coming, but it is driving me a bit nuts!

[AmiFL]

Hopefully someday a cd will be accepted by society like gay and lesbians are today.....

[Ashley Lyn]

I always wondered why CD-ing was 'looked down upon'..
Why should it matter if I want to dress as a girl?? Or look like a girl.. I like it..
My SO's sister said, "as long as its only for Halloween" to me after a dress-up Halloween party..

[Kate Simmons]

I doubt there will ever be volume acceptance, despite what they say. The only way to really be accepted is to prove who you are as a person.:)

[Tracii G]

Sad part is nobody listens to NPR.

[wanagione]

I think, as I have said before, that time will change things. The younger generations are pushing forward under the umbrella of Transgenderism. They are not afraid to challenge the norm and they are being heard.

[Madilyn A.]

Very interesting thread. The natural progression of movies and television seems to push the bounds well beyond "normalcy", so it would seem that cross dressing and transgenderism will have their day in the sun as well. I too, only hope the presentation does not paint us all as something we are not.

[lingerieLiz]

There was a reality show about professional dressers of the stars. One team included a guy who always wore women's clothes. He did not try to pass, but wore high fashion women's dresses and suits. Stars and everyone didn't seem to mind.

[Jessica86]

When every state adopts a transgendered worker's protection law, I would say we are moving in the right direction. Some states, such as Texas, do not even recognize us as people. The state does not cover us from discrimination in ANY instance, civil or criminal.

[Christina Page]

There was a reality show about professional dressers of the stars. One team included a guy who always wore women's clothes. He did not try to pass, but wore high fashion women's dresses and suits. Stars and everyone didn't seem to mind.

Minding that would be like minding a gay hairdresser. Incomprehensible!

[Carly CD]

Today the Department of Education announced Transgender students are protected from discrimination under the same federal law that prohibits sex discrimination.

"According to guidance issued by the Education Department's Office for Civil Rights, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 "extends to claims of discrimination based on gender identity or failure to conform to stereotypical notions of masculinity or femininity." Moreover, the Office for Civil Rights states that it will investigate complaints of discrimination on the basis of gender identity."........."Title IX prohibits under federal civil rights law discrimination on the basis of sex in federally funded education programs and activities, thus forcing all public and private elementary and secondary schools, school districts, colleges and universities receiving any federal financial assistance to comply with Title IX." (source: MetroWeekly)

It's a start :)

[devida]

It is curious why gender rights have lagged behind acceptance of the rights of adults to love whoever they please regardless of gender by modern developed societies. Why would it be that the right to present yourself as a gender other than the one assigned to you at birth would be considered so destabilizing to social norms? My guess is that if you are gay, lesbian, or bisexual you are somehow not as threatening as if you are a man presenting as a woman, a woman presenting as a man or either presenting as something in between. Still, acceptance of the LGB necessarily moves social norms, eventually, to acceptance of the T, and it is the rapid acceptance of the right to love that is leading to the acceptance of the right to present yourself as whatever gender you feel yourself to be, whenever you feel it.

I do think that this is why cross dressers must accept the umbrella term of transgender even if they do not feel that they are a gender other than that assigned at birth. Once they are accepted as T they can begin the long process of educating the public that many of them are not, strangely enough, L, G, or B, but cisgendered and heterosexual. I do understand what a difficult concept this is for the vast majority of people who don't question their gender and cannot understand why on earth anyone would want to. It's even difficult for many cross dressers, even though cross dressing is a clear questioning of socially acceptable and normative gender presentation.

But I do believe the arc of history bends towards justice, as MLK said. And equality, and compassion, and acceptance.

We'll get there, eventually.

[Michelle789]

The transgender umbrella term includes anyone whose gender identity or gender expression is different from their assigned birth sex. So a male dressing in women's clothes not trying to pass as a woman, a man trying to pass as a woman but who still identifies as male, or anyone with androgynous presentation or who changes presentations or identities from day to day, is as much part of the TG umbrella as an MTF or a FTM TS is.

If CDs unite with the TSes, there will be a huge number of us involved. TSes alone are 0.3% of the population, or basically 1 in every 300 people. There are not enough of us. There are 2-5% CDs easily, and possibly up to 10% of the population. Even if we can just get the CDs who venture out in public, whether you try to pass or not, we can have a substantial 2-3% of the population. This will strengthen the T part of LGBT and will benefit cross-dressers, TSes, and any other gender identity or gender expression. We need to stick together and fight for our rights. And show that diversity is the rule within the T community. And always be on our best behavior when out in public. Be polite and courteous. Let's show up to work and do our best performance when we're dressed.

If all of us came out, we'd be noticed. There would be one of us on every street corner. One in every small apartment building. One per floor in a large apartment complex. One per residential street in the suburbs. One in every small town. 1-2 in every mid-sized company. 1-2 in every department of large companies. One of us in the checkout lines of a supermarket per hour every day. 1-5 of us on every plane. Dozens of us on the trains during the rush hour commute.

And if we show that we're decent, productive human beings, people will accept us.

[rian]

?
. The more the general public sees us in real life or through the media in all of our various forms, both good and bad (and both do exist) the more they can learn about us and begin to realize that we are not a threat to them and their lives. It is just one other type of education, being exposed to that which we may never have been exposed to before. Yes, sometimes those first impressions may not be the best, but they are only the first ones. Over time these same people after multiple exposures will learn that we are only different and not bad. I always believe that most people are sane enough and practical enough to see that, yes, something may be different and not to their liking, AND that even though it is not to their liking it really causes no harm to anyone and has no affect on them and those around them. They begin to learn to live and let live.

I, therefore, am very happy to see more of this and other efforts to get us and who we are out in front of others in all our many forms by means of the media.


It all helps. The more the general public sees us in real life or through the media in all of our various forms, both good and bad (and both do exist) the more they can learn about us and begin to realize that we are not a threat to them and their lives. It is just one other type of education, being exposed to that which we may never have been exposed to before. Yes, sometimes those first impressions may not be the best, but they are only the first ones. Over time these same people after multiple exposures will learn that we are only different and not bad. I always believe that most people are sane enough and practical enough to see that, yes, something may be different and not to their liking, AND that even though it is not to their liking it really causes no harm to anyone and has no affect on them and those around them. They begin to learn to live and let live.

I, therefore, am very happy to see more of this and other efforts to get us and who we are out in front of others in all our many forms by means of the media.

I think no matter what media exposure fill the world , our gender will be expelled from living in the open ,,,because to the world would not tolerate to deal and understand our nature ,,,I think from the beginning a bad public realm was formed that this type of nature are not accepted ...

[roxielives]

The key to acceptance is not being seen by strangers in public, it's coming out to friends and family. The more people who know loved ones that dress, the more accepted it will become. Period.

[Rogina B]

When every state adopts a transgendered worker's protection law, I would say we are moving in the right direction. Some states, such as Texas, do not even recognize us as people. The state does not cover us from discrimination in ANY instance, civil or criminal.
I invite you to read any of my threads regarding my experiences while working for our Equality group,and the reactions from forum members and I have one running now in the TS section,and the reactions from some members there...

[ClaudineD]

Regretfully the images presented in "RuPaul" type TV shows will continue to typecast TG/TS community as clownish. The gay and lesbian community have fought hard for their acceptance and political clout. The RuPaul format will continue to drag(pun intended) TG/TS issues. It is a media presentation issue as there are PLENTY in the TG/TS community who are vocal, informative and persuasive. but without a serious depiction to the populace, acceptance will lag.
Newer roles such as the depiction in "Orange is the New Black" spins a more favorable and credible presentation. It is a long road toward acceptance and political influence. Serious presentation in the mass media, TV, movies etc is needed rather than over painted, platform shoe wearing, pink bouffant hair that average populace view as a joke.....

[Claire Cook]

It would appear that there may be some light at the end of our cd tunnel concerning public acceptance of us. The entertainment world is making a concerted push in our direction . Hopefully , those presentations will portray tg's as normal , loving & caring souls & not as sick perverted individuals . Many of you were hoping for public acceptance . That wish may become a reality sooner than later.

IMHO, there is a yes and no here. I think too many folks have the old stereotype of Psycho, Dressed to Kill and the Silence of the Lambs that there is something pathological about CD's, and Hollywood needs to correct that. Then we have "drag" movies (e.g. To Wong Foo....) and movies that equate gayness with TG / CD themes. Much as I love The Crying Game or The Birdcage, that theme is there. While Hollywood is dealing with TG themes, maybe we need some honest movies about heterosexual CD's -- Just Like a Woman is , I think, terrific, and maybe Tootsie falls into this category.



Hon, if y'all want social acceptance, you need to come out and stand up for yourselves. You really do.

Paula, you've said a lot. Coming out, at least for me, says "I'm a CD and I'm proud .... and except for my clothes, I'm as normal as you." (Huh? :eek:) And there are some of us who do outreach for our side ... maybe it's time I and others started....

[Beverley Sims]

I feel that all you will see are crime shows with weapon wielding cops and robbers in disguise, or Situation comedies similar to Mrs, Doubtfire.

Regular CD stories are dead boring and pale into insignificance.

Not for the movie writers.

It will give others more of an understanding and tweak the responses of those wishing to come out.

I can see the times square news chaser..........AMTRAK is hoping to improve it's services........ Join CD.Com today..... The us dollar fell again today.....

[AllieSF]

Rian,

I understand some of the culture where you live, and yes, to see much liberalization of out transgender rights there is more of a dream that it may happen in our grand children's lifetime, maybe! However, in the rest of the world, including the USA where many members here live and go out on a regular basis, there are a lot of changes and more are happening every year. So, I believe that, first we are not being expelled from living in the open. Yes, some people run into problems sometimes, but this is less common than most think. Discrimination will probably continue many years after our total rights to be and present ourselves will finally be granted or declared by laws and legislation. However, it is and will continue to improve.

As one who goes out a lot, I have really never had a bad negative experience. That and from what I read here all the time leads me to believe that the general public here in the USA and some other parts of the world are more tolerant and even more accepting than what we may give them credit for. They are not hateful and ready to verbally or physically attack us. We are an oddity to them to be looked at and then ignored. I also believe that by just being out there and meeting people we are helping everyone that follows in our footsteps. We are introducing ourselves and our way of presenting ourselves to others. It takes us time to get used to something new and very different from what we are normally used to seeing and understanding. The general public is like that too. Give them time to see and maybe interact with more of us and I truly believe they will eventually let us live as we wish.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Melissa, What happens in Hollywood and San Francisco don't mean the rest of the country will see it any time soon.

[sometimes_miss]

However, Milton Berle, if anyone is old enough to remember him, as well as, the black comedian Flip Wilson incorporated the concept of crossdressing into one of their many characters years ago and no one ever made a big deal of it.
Apples and oranges. Those comedians, as well as hundreds of male actors who have dressed as women for roles in theater and movies, are NOT tg or ts, and are not making any statements that they are. They are playing a role for humor or drama, often with sarcasm in the case of humorous roles.
As far as acceptance, we're getting there. Much of the population, while not liking us, our behavior, or what we represent, tend to leave us alone as long as we do the same.
However; there is not much we can to about attraction. Women either find us attractive, or not; and when crossdressing is thrown in, it's nearly always 'not'.

[AllieSF]

Sometimes, I don't see the apples and oranges of my statement to the Op of this thread, that the media is putting more attention on putting crossdressing into their programming. I would not be surprised that it will include a lot of humor, just as Milton Berle and Flip Wilson did so many years ago. One does not have to be a German to portray a German in a movie and the same goes for a crossdresser in a serious role or even a TS. Yes, it would be nice that a real German would be used as well as a real Crossdresser and TS. However, that is not always possible, sometimes because of the need to star power to assist in the selling of the movie or program and also the need to pick a qualified person with the right looks, personality and acting skills to portray the character as the Directors and Producers want. Yes, some may also not yet want to deal with the real thing, which needs to change.

Many here do not like humor or sarcasm to be part of the CD or TS roles and I can understand that. However, we never portrayed gays and lesbians in any type of programing or movies many years ago. Now, they bring that other and real element to the big and small screens. Modern Family is a good example of this, and in my opinion works even when they over emphasize the gay stereotypes for humor. A lot of statements about gays in our life are being made in every episode along with the humor and sarcasm. It all helps to get who we are and what we do out there to the mass general public.

I do disagree that much of the population does not like us. I believe that they just don't understand us and have had little or no interaction or experiences with us. Therefore, they are not going to go out of their way to get to know and hopefully accept us, thus they ignore us. Lack of knowledge about something not mainstream makes people hesitant to even try to understand it. As for liking or not, some people just do not like change in any shape or form. They usually and eventually get on board, at least a little bit, when they find that all their acquaintances don't let that new thing bother them.

[Melissa in SE Tn]

Girls , whether we know it or not, the times they are a changin' . Cd acceptance or tolerance may be evolving too slow for us involved , but it is happening & the media will be huge swayers of opinion. Look at where the LGBT movement is today - yes, good active historical participation in the movement , but great media persuasion on their behalf . Television has awakened us to gay relationships , gay marriage & child adoption by gays . None if the above shocks our senses . There is an overwhelming majority of Americans that approve of gay marriage . The gay civil rights movement has progressed faster than any other previous minority movement . Yes it will take more time , more persuasion & more understanding , but I choose to believe that our time in the sun is on the horizon rather than continuing to been kept in the darkness. The times they are a changin' ... Just keep the faith & enjoy being feminine. Peace , Mel

[sometimes_miss]

I do disagree that much of the population does not like us. I believe that they just don't understand us and have had little or no interaction or experiences with us. Therefore, they are not going to go out of their way to get to know and hopefully accept us, thus they ignore us.
They aren't ignoring us. Someone a while back did an experiment, went shopping while dressed, with a friend tailing behind to see the after reactions and lets just say she got a surprise that she wasn't either ignored OR not noticed as a crossdresser by most of the people as she thought. Lots of people noticed, and the reactions that were noticed weren't what you'd want. There are plenty of people who simply don't say what they are thinking.

Lack of knowledge about something not mainstream makes people hesitant to even try to understand it. As for liking or not, some people just do not like change in any shape or form. They usually and eventually get on board, at least a little bit, when they find that all their acquaintances don't let that new thing bother them.
The problem however is that all their acquaintances aren't just not letting things bother them. As above, they talk amongst themselves about us, and the discussion rarely comes out like, 'well so he likes to crossdress, who cares'. People who think that's the common reaction have their heads in the sand. Like the person who went out shopping's friend, I get to hear what people say about us when they don't think we're listening, as I'm about as deep in the closet as they come. In general...people don't like us. They don't want us for neighbors, they don't want us as coworkers, and they don't want us as friends. Yes, if you come out, some will remain your friend, but the dynamics of the relationship WILL change; for example, if you previously went out to movies together alone with one male friend, he's probably not likely to do that anymore, simply because there's the ever so slight potential that you might turn out to be gay, and he may not want to encourage others to think he may not be completely straight as well.

[Michelle789]

Lexi,

While I do think that there are some who do notice us, most of us are just WAY to busy, WAY too self-absorbed, and WAY too self-centered to even notice us. Most people in public are pressed for time, and are concerned with their own business and really do not have the time or interest to notice us. Now there are some busy-bodies who just have to notice everything. And yeah, there are people with WAY too much free time on their hands.

So maybe if someone notices you and doesn't say anything, than that means that they have WAY too much free time on their hands, and should go get a life.

[PaulaQ]

Women either find us attractive, or not; and when crossdressing is thrown in, it's nearly always 'not'.

What you say really only applies to straight women. There are bisexual women who like CDs. (Or other trans*). There are trans women who find CDs attractive. You just have to look for the right girl. If you want a straight girl that somehow loves a CD / TG / TS - yeah, they are pretty rare. However, there are a fair number of GG's on this forum who show that even straight girls can be OK with a CD, and for that matter, I know a couple of straight girls who really LIKE CDs.

Don't give up - you can find love. Be open, be flexible, and keep looking. I know a lot of you are lonely - but trust me, it can happen for you too. Be interesting, have a full life - be worth knowing. It'll happen.

[Michelle789]

I think while it's rare for straight GG's to find CD's attractive, there are lots of, especially younger straight CDs, who will be your friend and hang out with you while dressed, but not date you nor be romantically involved with you.

[sometimes_miss]

Lots of women tolerate us, even accept that we exist. But that's a very far away place from being attracted to us sexually. Paula, your answer kind of implies that bi women or gay women are usually attracted to crossdressing males. I don't see that as being true in any way; Here:

What you say really only applies to straight women.
Well, that's what straight crossdressing guys are predominantly looking for. Lets say there are 3 million of us in the U.S., and oh, 80% are straight. O.K., 2.4 million of us now. And how many known women are known to be really attracted to us when crossdressed?? Even on this forum, few. O.K., lets say for the sake of argument 100. so that's, what, 0.005% of us who even have a chance if we stumble upon one of those women, if we're anywhere near being compatible.

There are bisexual women who like CDs.
Haven't come across any. I suppose they exist, but in the last 15 years of searching, all the bi women I've met or contacted online like masculine men or feminine women.

(Or other trans*). There are trans women who find CDs attractive.
Not looking for a wife that's what almost always amounts to a guy in a dress, and smells like one. I was abused by men and have absolutely no interest or attraction there. I'm not trying to be mean, but for a lot of people, changing the genitalia does not a woman make; for while we might feel like we are 'real women' after all the hormones and surgery, that's not how we usually wind up appearing to the rest of the world.

You just have to look for the right girl. Been looking. Still am. The percentages are very, very bad, which is what I was referring to in my previous post.

If you want a straight girl that somehow loves a CD / TG / TS - yeah, they are pretty rare. However, there are a fair number of GG's on this forum who show that even straight girls can be OK with a CD, and for that matter, I know a couple of straight girls who really LIKE CDs.
A fair number isn't even close. Even the last thread posted came up with very few women who like it; most of the guys who are involved with women here are with someone who tolerates them, most, well they're not enthusiastic about it at all. Besides, what women that come onto this forum aren't going to be already involved with a crossdresser? Kind of skews the results. And on top of that, lets be optimistic and say there are 50 women who are really into crossdressers so much, that they seek us by coming to this forum (and that number includes way more than every single woman who replied to the last thread which asked for women who actively liked their mate's crossdressing. Out of say 150 million women in the U.S.. Let's just say I have a better chance of running into Jesus than finding one. You know a couple. That's 2. Out of everyone you know...was that supposed to be optimistic? Oh, and is that 'like' as a friend, or are they truly sexually turned on by guys like most of us here?

Don't give up - you can find love. Yes. As long as we don't tell them about the crossdressing. Women will accept nearly anything else, you can be a murderer, prisoner, assassin, cheater, wife beater, drug addict, drunk, habitual liar, there are all plenty of guys like that who have mates. As long as you are masculine. But throw in the feminine card, and we're toast. And "be worth knowing. It'll happen". I apparently am certainly worth knowing. I have no problem getting dates. But I have yet to meet a woman 'in the wild' (that means not on a supportive crossdresser forum) that likes men crossdressing. Sure, they exist. But there's no way to find them, personal ads garner other men & prostitutes. I've been on alt.com, as well as all the regular dating sites. Even ventured onto s&m and bondage sites. Again, nothing (besides, even though I'd be willing to participate in those activities if the woman were o.k. with crossdressing, the vast majority of top/dom women have a huge choice of men, and even they don't seem to prefer crossdressers. There are no legitimate crossdresser/straight girl dating sites (the one that exists is inhabited almost exclusively by males, most of which post their sex as female, so there's no way to find GG's, and the few GG's there are either taken or shills to get men to purchase a membership; after you pay up to contact them, either they don't answer or say that they never wrote to you). There are no crossdresser/straight girl bars, nothing. I'm not trying to be a downer. These are the situations I have found. Back in the 2000's, there was a hotel which hosted a sort of CD night; I stopped by in drab one night to see what it was all about. You guessed it, all guys. Guys in dresses, guys in pants.

[mechamoose]

There *will* be CD acceptance. It is just a matter of WHEN.

We are still outliers in the same way that bi people have trouble in the gay/les community (Their view: "Make up your mind!!!")

We, as Dr. Vinkman said, 'cross the streams'. We don't fit traditional role models. We don't fit traditional presentation models. We make the 'mundane' people think harder than they want to. We challenge what they have been told is 'normal'.

Our types were holy people in ancient cultures. So sad that we don't have that now.

- MM

[natcrys]

Wow.. so much negativity in this thread.. so little faith in the progressive power that we as humans have! :sigh:

I'm not going to tell people to lighten up, because it could very well be that their individual experiences have been so bad that they have no hope that things might change for the better for *them*.

But you have to completely blind to not see the huge steps we've taken in most Western countries, especially in the last few decades. More and more people know of crossdressing, there's media attention, a lot of countries have laws that protect crossdressers/transgenders.

Where 20 years ago support group meetings took place in absolute secrecy at people's homes or private venues.. nowadays everything is openly advertised on websites. And half of the support group meetings in the Netherlands happen in bars where the general public also comes to enjoy a drink. :)

Are gays/lesbians accepted everywhere in the Netherlands.. no! Do some people still point and stare when they see two men or women romantically holding hands while shopping... sure! However, compared to 20 years ago.. lots of progress. This will also happen for the transgender community (to use the umbrella term).

I would actually welcome shows that would treat CD/TG with a bit of humor.. just like Will & Grace. It had its stereotypes but it was light-hearted and (for me) funny. And I'm convinced that it, on average, did raise positive awareness for the gay community.

Does all of this go too slow .. sure.. I totally agree! But the arrow of progress is pointed in the right direction. And every kind of positive exposure is good: good films, tv shows, CD's out in the public, etc. :thumbsup:

Not saying everyone should go out and fight for the cause, but... complaining behind a computer on a forum.. progress gained from that: zero point zero percent!

[Amanda22]

Does all of this go too slow .. sure.. I totally agree! But the arrow of progress is pointed in the right direction. And every kind of positive exposure is good: good films, tv shows, CD's out in the public, etc. :thumbsup:

Not saying everyone should go out and fight for the cause, but... complaining behind a computer on a forum.. progress gained from that: zero point zero percent!

I could not agree more. Things are changing, and rapidly. Acceptance is faster because some of us move about freely in public. To them, I give a big THANKS.