Pits to peaks to deeper pits. (long - over 800 words)

[MsVal]

Pits to peaks to deeper pits. (long - over 800 words)

This past ten days my mood has gone from okay to horribly worried, to better than my greatest dreams, and now to despair.

Things were okay, my wife and I were comfortably going about things as we have for as far back as I can remember. We talked, hugged, kissed; the normal things a married couple would do. She was aware that I was a crossdresser and that we had postponed further discussion until after her workload diminished. That happened a week ago Thursday.

I had heard from Samantha Rogers about a local support group called Crossroads that would meet the following Saturday. I wanted to attend and knew that my wife would innocently ask where I was going. I will not lie to her and believed that telling her about Crossroads would rip open the newly formed scab that grew after "The Talk" last December. This was an inflection point. Should I wait until a better time? Is there ever a better time? Shall I pull "The Talk - II" ahead? What could be the consequences?

I chose to reopen our discussion about my cross dressing.

I will spare you the details, but it was a very difficult Thursday followed by a very difficult Friday. Many tears were shed by her and by me. Our souls were bared, our emotions were raw. Everything came out. Harsh words were said. If the story ended there, it would end very very badly. But it did not end there.

After hitting the bottom but agreeing that we really do love each other we began rebuilding.

Saturday morning the framework for acceptance was formed. Expectations, permissions, and limitations began to emerge. We joined together to work toward a mutually acceptable solution that would respect her legitimate concerns and my legitimate needs. She wants to learn and do those things that will restore my happiness. I want to live a life free of lies and hiding while remaining very sensitive to her feelings and our marriage. I will continue to treat her as the most important person in my life.

We both went to the Crossroads meeting, but she left as the girls began to arrive. Her emotions were still too sensitive to stay.

We had agreed to completely open and honest communications. No question would go unanswered, all answers would be truthful. There were many very frank discussions during the following week. Very intimate details of our lives were disclosed. Tears were common, as were gestures of deep love and respect. We each made appointments with therapists, her first session was Thursday, mine will be on Monday.

We became closer emotionally than at any time in the past ten years. God blessed me with a wife that is beyond a doubt a better match for me than any other woman on earth.

We still have work to do on our mutual agreement but it will be done in the spirit of love and respect instead of anger and shame.

Sunday I went to another meeting, this one named Transitions. As the name implies, its primary membership and its focus appears to be those that are transitioning or have already transitioned. They were very nice and accepted this crossdresser with open arms, but I did not feel that would be a good match for me.

Monday I went to a psychologist that specializes in gender issues, and is a sponsor of that group. I told her that I went to that meeting, that I'm merely a crossdresser, and don't believe it's a good fit for me. She said I was mistaken.

She told me things I did not want to hear. She told me that I present as a classical case of crossdresser on a path toward transitioning. She spoke in terms that made it sound inevitable and she suggested that I begin HRT. I told her that I am Superman with super will power and I can will it away. I quit drinking and I quit smoking by simply never having another. She said those were behaviors and this is not. She said the feelings would continue, even though I ceased practicing. I would experience increasing anxiety until I came to accept it and take it to it's conclusion. I'm already so anxious that I can't focus my thoughts on anything else but this. It wakes me up at night. I'm shaking.

I'm a pretty stoic guy. I am able to shake off emotional baggage with never a thought. Yet, I cried all the way home and for the next hour after getting here.

I'm scared. I'm vulnerable. On proof reading this note, I sound rather pathetic.

I'm going to shop around for a psychologist that believes differently.

On a positive note. My dear wife told me today that she will not leave me. The woman is a saint.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tinkerbell-GG]

I'm sorry you're in so much pain :(

And is it common for a therapist to insist the client is transexual when the client says otherwise? I find this strange, but maybe her job is to see what you won't? Do you think you'd transition if you weren't married? Can someone ever really repress such a thing?

Your wife sounds like an amazing, strong woman (as do you!) and I hope you can continue to figure this out together x

[Laura912]

As the first responder and MD, my professional opinion is that the psychologist is way off base. Do not go back to her. Find another. If she wasn't biased towards transitioning I doubt that she would be a member of that group. (Do not mistake this as a negative view of transitioning by me.). You are extraordinarily vulnerable just now and need to really move sloooooooowly. Keep the communication going and best of luck. Let us help where we can.

Edit: well, almost the first responder.

[~Joanne~]

Sounds like you have a difficult journey ahead of you but have the support to continue on the road, which ever you chose to go down. Getting a second opinion is always good as it seems the therapist you saw came to a very quick conclusion especially for the first visit. I wish you the best :)

[Jenelle]

Val you are not pathetic at all. There is lots going on with you and it is okay to feel over whelmed. I know society tries to tell us that as guys we shouldn't feel that but I learned long ago that is is okay to recognize when things tend to get too much. By recognizing that simple thing it helps me to stay focused and not let it all spiral out of control.

As for the therapist you saw I can't believe that is what she said on your very first meeting! While what she said could be true, it seems odd to come out with that on your very first session. I agree to shop for another therapist but don't fall in to the trap of finding the one that re affirms your own beliefs. If you go through a few therapists and the general concensus is the same you really need to look at what they are saying

[PaulaQ]

Keep in mind that the therapist got to observe MsVal in the support group setting as well.

Some therapists blurt out the obvious, some don't. The therapist my wife saw about me, as she tried to understand what I was going through, listened to her describe me for an hour, and told her that it was a near certainty that I'd transition, and ultimately seek SRS. He was right on the money, too - although I sure as hell didn't want him to be.

[ReineD]

Monday I went to a psychologist that specializes in gender issues, and is a sponsor of that group. I told her that I went to that meeting, that I'm merely a crossdresser, and don't believe it's a good fit for me. She said I was mistaken.

She's a sponsor for a TS group? This blows her objectivity. And she came up with this diagnosis during the first session?

Gender therapists aren't supposed to diagnose you as a TS or not, they're supposed to follow your lead. It's not as if there is a blood test for this. When they have clients who feel they are TS, gender therapists should make sure there are no comorbidity issues and also address any mental conditions that may confuse the issue. Two such examples are depression or addictions.

In the past few months your threads have indicated that you've been in a rather thick Pink Fog. This is common after CDers come out to their wives. But, be sure to not mistake the euphoric feelings you may be feeling for a conviction that this is what it feels like to be a woman.

You may well be TS, no one in this forum can make any judgements. But you need to know that the percentage of transsexuals among the community as a whole is very small. Despite this, I think it's safe to say that just about everyone gets these strong feelings at one time or another. I would give it several years of exploring the cross-gender expression to the point when it is no longer a new, exciting thing, before making a final determination that you are TS. If you do decide that you are, then please do seek a gender therapist who will test for the conditions stated above before writing a letter for the endocrinologist.

[Michelle Charles]

Glad things are on a good footing with your wife, she is a saint to walk this through with you. I agree fully with Laura and Reine that your therapist was way off base to diagnose you so quickly and recommend HRT so soon. You need to go through a significant testing phase to determine what she did in a 1 hour appointment. Doesn't sound like you agree either or that is where you are in like. Pink Fog is best descriptor for you right now. Be easy on your wife, go easy and slow, you nee each other. Let her experience the man she married as much as possible!
Michelle

[Michelle V]

Wow! Speechless here, this is a topic that defense toy strikes a nerve and I haven't even begun to look for support groups, I don't know if I want to, my life is awesome and this CDing is like that Damocles story, damn sword over my head. On the one hand I'm elated when I'm Michelle, I feel like I'm connecting with my selfs at an spiritual level. Then there is the reality of who I am everyday, I feel like as a male I am living the dream, love my career love my family, live in my dream house but I always have Michelle wanting to take over more and more each day, I am aware I need professional help or a support group. To illustrate; the last two days I have let Michelle take over my life in a very irresponsible way, my male persona totally disappeared and only Michelle was around, when it was time to quit and get back to the real world I became angry and depressed, yesterday I took it out on my family, I became cruel and rude to them,it wasn't until my wife came home from work and after a long 12 hr shift in the hospital she said she had the kids and that I was free to take time for myself. Enjoyed a nice Ryun and reflection time hit on mile 2, I am an a-hole, I have issues that I need to deal with and not my family, I have to get help. This post is not about me, I feel for you Ms Val, you are doing the right thing looking out for your family and figuring things out before they spiral out of control. We are a broken bunch (most of us) you have taken giant steps on your life and getting help takes huge cojones, I will follow your example and begin looking for the help I need, thanks for your great example and mi sending you the best wishes in your life.

[KaceyR]

Wow. Well, first I'm sorry you've gone thru all this. It is nice that you have the wife's support in the end. Too bad she couldn't stick around that earlier meeting but she has a lot to figure out herself and I can see that. On the one hand, for you, just freshly getting out to these groups is kind of more an exploratory thing..(same with me) to figure out what your CDing means in your life, to see what others see, and such.
It also seems to me that there's a bit of jumping the gun by that therapist. In a way I hope that it isn't the fact that she is first taking it a pure logical way that 'well he's gone to Transitions meeting..he must really want to change' and push things in that direction right away, ignoring the fact that it's early and you're just investigating the groups and what they're about. I had even seen those groups and wondered if it was something to check out. Ultimately I haven't yet. Not that I haven't thought of something long term like transitioning. I pretty much was Kacey for 3+ days fri, sat, sun, and into Mon and got out to GR, back to home and met friends for dinner, and other normal stuff. It felt great, relaxing, and natural. More and more going drab to work feels like the forced 'unnatural' side. I just feel that I, myself, would need more therapy work due to depressions and my life to really be sure. Add to that my income stinks so It's likely I'm stuck no matter what.

On the ending section.. Don't know about vulnerability. But I know that a lot of us here on the board are more in touch with their feelings moreso. I sure always have been. That boosts these emotions and makes it rougher to work thru.

I wish you the best wishes in stabilizing things.

On the finding a therapist that believes differently statement. I read it a couple of ways with this. I've read a lot on transitioner's experiences with the therapists they've gone to here and elsewhere, and see a few ways things can happen.

Usually (if I'm correct here) there's work done by 2 therapists - 1 for general issues, and the 2nd for gender.
For the transitioner, when the general is clear, and gender doc understands that the patient is truly needing the transition, they'll do the referral to an endocrinologist for HRT and continuing the physical medical side.

Thing is, I'm just a bit cynical too. I've seen stories of therapists keeping patients hanging around to generate more visits (and more $ for them).
I've seen some stories of gender therapists holding off progressing those that know they want and are meant to go on HRT and transition causing more stress and strain to the patient.

I'm not sure what to think on your experience Val.. Trying to 'speed up' a person thru transitioning this way. My cynical side tries to logically think that even a gender therapist should have several sessions to really work up the level of GD and what the person needs. By pushing things faster, there's fewer sessions (at least for this doc). Maybe she is reacting to the way many other docs hold up their patients' process and is just reacting quicker for less harsh or drawn out trauma (seen with severe GD cases). Maybe there's differences in it based on the patients ages.
Overall, I don't know and can't tell from the outside view of your experiences/discussions.

On the 'believes differently' side.. I dunno. There's one thing for going to a doc and figuring out an issue. (Again this seems to gave been figured out too fast to me). But the other side thinks a bit much about the aspect of going to docs until you get one that agrees with you. Like going to a doc and finding a cancer. You don't like this and so you go to another for another opinion. More tests. Cancer again. Spending months going to more and more docs till one (not too good of one) finally says it's nothing.
Then a time later you're real sick and they find cancer spread all over your body and now isn't treatable anymore. If it was treated earlier it might have been managed.
Difference here is more psych than medical of course. And harder to define.
But in some ways can be just as damaging.

I know all of these docs are supposed to be professional and supposed to have your best interests at heart.
But just be careful in ending up at a doc in your search for 'the match' may not truly have good gender experience to be qualified to help.

Anyways, take care and best wishes with whatever you figure out.

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi Val

I only read your full post now, but I'll stand by what I said in my PM. Seems like most here concur anyway. Reine (as always)(such a wise woman) hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. You'll pull through, the "fog" will lift, you are too sensible for it not to.

[Christen]

Dear Ms. Val,
You show great strength. I'm full of admiration. My gut feeling is get well away from that psychologist, one meeting and she says that?, she sounds dangerous.
Hugs to you, and your wife,

Christen x

[Amanda M]

Speaking as a psychotherapist myself, I have to agree with the posters who have said that your therapist was completely out of order. It seems to me that she has a personal agenda which she put before your needs and wellbeing. You are right to dump her.

[Teresa]

MsVal,
You always hope you are going to pick the right time for talking but there never is, and you go over in your own mind what to say but doesn't always come together the way you planned. The important point is you are still talking and are still together and hopefully will remain so.
Therapy is available in the UK both through the NHS and privately, I did two private sessions but as my wife refused to attend the third I stopped the sessions. His basic idea was if it wasn't a secret it wouldn't be a problem, I also felt that on a sliding scale Cding was a minor issue and so he treated it with a certain amount of flippancy, for that I paid £180.00. He did take my suicidal thoughts more seriously and instructed my GP to put me on Prozac. Therapy can either take you down a road you shouldn't be on and leave you with more doubts about yourself than you started with or end up with a YES-YES session where you're all ticking the same boxes and end up with medical confirmation that you are a CDer.
I'm sorry if I sound sceptical ,therapy is not as common in the UK as it is in the US and Canada and I'm sure some will say it's done a wonderful job and I would be happy for them.
MsVal please don't feel weak and pathetic, men need to cry, when I first told my wife it felt like I was shedding a millstone in my tears, in all my years I have never sobbed so deeply, it just needs to come out !

[Beverley Sims]

Val,
I see your dilemma, you are looking for a psychologist that will tell you what you want to hear.

Do that and then weigh the two in together.

I wish you and your wife well for the future.

[MsVal]

Wow ... I'm overwhelmed with gratitude and humbled by the kind thoughts and suggestions from so many trusted advisers. The notes in this forum and in my private mail box are universally helpful, supportive, and gratefully welcomed. I want to bake a bunch of cookies and have everyone over for a group hug.

This reminds me of when I was managing IT projects. I surrounded myself with people much brighter and much more experienced than I could ever be. Together, we routinely made magic happen. You are the people that make me appear to be much smarter and more confident than I am in real life. Superman has just entered the building.

Thank you.






I'm sorry you're in so much pain :(

And is it common for a therapist to insist the client is transexual when the client says otherwise? I find this strange, but maybe her job is to see what you won't? Do you think you'd transition if you weren't married? Can someone ever really repress such a thing?

Your wife sounds like an amazing, strong woman (as do you!) and I hope you can continue to figure this out together x

Those are good questions Tinkerbell. I wish I had good answers. I can't insist one way or the other because I don't know what I am. I'm some kind of fish out of water, but I don't even know if it's fresh or salt water. I was told that I need salt water, but I don't know whether I can trust that conclusion. An error can be devastating.

I'd rather have cancer than transition. Cancer patients get empathy, trans people get scorned. Plus, they can cure cancer.

My wife? Yes, yes, a hundred times yes. That woman is my pillar, my soul, my reason to be a better person today than I was yesterday.



As the first responder and MD, my professional opinion is that the psychologist is way off base. [...] You are extraordinarily vulnerable just now and need to really move sloooooooowly.

How can I go wrong when I have the opinion of a kindred soul that is also a medical professional?
Moving slowly is difficult for me. If something can be done now, I see no reason why it should be done later. Perhaps it is a good idea to give ideas time to mature in my mind and time to collect advice. I'll need to find patience. I'll get right on it and have it by this afternoon. <grin>




[...] Getting a second opinion is always good as it seems the therapist you saw came to a very quick conclusion especially for the first visit. [...]

That seems to be the unanimous conclusion. My wife's therapist provided the name of another one that also does couples.



Val you are not pathetic at all. There is lots going on with you and it is okay to feel over whelmed. [...] As for the therapist you saw I can't believe that is what she said on your very first meeting! While what she said could be true, it seems odd to come out with that on your very first session. I agree to shop for another therapist but don't fall in to the trap of finding the one that re affirms your own beliefs. If you go through a few therapists and the general concensus is the same you really need to look at what they are saying

Thanks for the warm, soft shoulder to cry on Jenelle. I AM overwhelmed and it's so hard to shake that feeling.

I usually know enough about other technical fields that it's hard to fool me. This one though is WAY out of my reach. I may have to get a couple more opinions, as you suggest.



[...]Some therapists blurt out the obvious, some don't. The therapist my wife saw about me [...] listened to her describe me for an hour, and told her that it was a near certainty that I'd transition, and ultimately seek SRS. He was right on the money, too - although I sure as hell didn't want him to be.

Was that a skillful conclusion or lucky guess? The answer is academic at this point but gives some credibility to my therapist's response.



She's a sponsor for a TS group? This blows her objectivity. And she came up with this diagnosis during the first session? [...] Gender therapists aren't supposed to diagnose you as a TS or not, they're supposed to follow your lead. [...] gender therapists should make sure there are no comorbidity issues [...] In the past few months your threads have indicated that you've been in a rather thick Pink Fog. [...] be sure to not mistake the euphoric feelings [...] that this is what it feels like to be a woman. [...] I would give it several years of exploring the cross-gender expression to the point when it is no longer a new, exciting thing, before making a final determination that you are TS. If you do decide that you are, then please do seek a gender therapist who will test for the conditions stated above before writing a letter for the endocrinologist.

The red lights flashed a bit when found the group::therapist connection. I kept that in mind as a warning that she may be biased and also as validation that she knows something about these issues.

I wanted to find out where I exist on the spectrum, then develop a strategy to address whatever issues that may present. Right or wrong, that's what I got out of the session, though I may have had unrealistic expectations and received a hasty diagnosis. Those co-morbidity issues you raise are valid though they may have been addressed through the pre-appointment questionnaire.

Good catch on the Pink Fog. It was pretty dense a couple months ago, quite a bit lighter in the past few weeks, but still affects my thinking. The euphoria you mention left me some time ago. What I have is ... well ... kind of silly actually. I feel *nothing* when dressed, though I may feel some amount of anxiety when not dressed. I have no illusions that the "femininity" that I feel is genuine.

I do see the wisdom in your advice though I'm not comfortable letting things ride for months, yet alone years. To me it would be like waiting years to find out whether I was putting enough money into a retirement account. By the time I found out, it could be too late to recover from a mistake.



Glad things are on a good footing with your wife, she is a saint to walk this through with you. [...] You need to go through a significant testing phase to determine what she did in a 1 hour appointment. [...] Be easy on your wife, go easy and slow, you nee each other. Let her experience the man she married as much as possible!
Michelle

Yes, she is a saint. I worship her and devote my energy toward matching her kindness. I am now, and desire to continue to be the man that she married. This gender confusion stuff may thwart that, but I won't give up without a struggle.

During my 36 year career in a large corporation I have had many personality type tests. They all involved surveys that asked dozens to hundreds of questions. The answers were then distilled into some kind of meaningful result. I was expecting something at least as comprehensive. The survey I completed for this analysis seemed to be rather sparse. Is there a standardized test for this stuff?



Wow! Speechless here, this is a topic that [...] strikes a nerve and I haven't even begun to look for support groups, I don't know if I want to, my life is awesome [...] but I always have Michelle wanting to take over [...] I am aware I need professional help or a support group. [...] This post is not about me, I feel for you Ms Val, [...] We are a broken bunch (most of us) you have taken giant steps [...] I will follow your example and begin looking for the help I need [...]

Yep, it may be hard to believe at 800+ words, but I was speechless too. You are not alone. The feeling of losing control is one with which I am quite familiar. I too feel the drive to dress and the let down when it is all over and MsVal is put back into her box.

You are right, this post is not about you, it's about US - the collective "US" that wander about, bumping into things in the fog. It's about sharing thoughts and advice that may temporarily clear the fog and expose a path toward personal peace and satisfaction. If your path includes counseling, pay close attention to the advice I am receiving from our esteemed sisters.

Thanks for the compliment, but the credit goes to my dear wife, without whose support I could not have begun this journey.




Wow. Well, first I'm sorry you've gone thru all this. It is nice that you have the wife's support [...] she has a lot to figure out herself [...] for you, just freshly getting out to these groups is kind of more an exploratory thing. [...] It also seems to me that there's a bit of jumping the gun by that therapist. [...] I wish you the best wishes in stabilizing things.

On the finding a therapist that believes differently statement. [...] I'm not sure what to think on your experience Val.. Trying to 'speed up' a person thru transitioning this way. My cynical side tries to logically think that even a gender therapist should have several sessions to really work up the level of GD and what the person needs. [...] On the 'believes differently' side.. I dunno. There's one thing for going to a doc and figuring out an issue. [...] But the other side thinks a bit much about the aspect of going to docs until you get one that agrees with you. [...]

Thanks, Kacey. It is beginning to look like it will be a tough slog, but with God's help and my wife's support, I'll get through it okay.

I need to find a good place where my wife can find support and answers. Aside from this forum, can anyone recommend one?

I don't want to spend years doing what can be done in one. It's not that I'm impatient, I just don't feel comfortable with things that are incomplete. I already have enough things that need completion. I don't want another. On the other hand, I don't want to cherry pick an incorrect diagnosis.



Hi Val [...] Seems like most here concur anyway. Reine (as always)(such a wise woman) hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned. You'll pull through, the "fog" will lift, you are too sensible for it not to.

Oh, you are too kind. Thank you for your many kind thoughts and advice.




Dear Ms. Val, You show great strength. I'm full of admiration. My gut feeling is get well away from that psychologist, one meeting and she says that?, she sounds dangerous. Hugs to you, and your wife,Christen x

Thanks, but I'm no one special. I am simply naive enough to walk this path and ignorant enough to ask for help from those that have gone before me.

My wife - now there is someone special.




Speaking as a psychotherapist myself, I have to agree with the posters who have said that your therapist was completely out of order. It seems to me that she has a personal agenda which she put before your needs and well being. You are right to dump her.

Here's another professional opinion from a person with experiences similar to the ones I face. This is wonderful beyond belief. How can a guy like me get such excellent advice?

Before cancelling the next appointment I wonder if it would be appropriate or wise to ask her about some of the points that have been raised?





MsVal,
You always hope you are going to pick the right time for talking but there never is, and you go over in your own mind what to say but doesn't always come together the way you planned. The important point is you are still talking and are still together and hopefully will remain so.
Therapy is available in the UK [...] I did two private sessions [...] His basic idea was if it wasn't a secret it wouldn't be a problem, I also felt that on a sliding scale Cding was a minor issue [...] for that I paid £180.00. He did take my suicidal thoughts more seriously and instructed my GP to put me on Prozac. Therapy can [...] leave you with more doubts about yourself than you started with or [...] end up with medical confirmation that you are a CDer. [...]
MsVal please don't feel weak and pathetic, men need to cry, when I first told my wife it felt like I was shedding a millstone in my tears, in all my years I have never sobbed so deeply, it just needs to come out !


In a professional development seminar I learned "You will be called on to make decisions based on incomplete and erroneous information. You cannot wait for the information to be complete or vetted, for to do so would risk missing the opportunity." I couldn't come up with a "best" time or the "right" words, so I made the decision to go forward with what I had. In hindsight, waiting would have only made things worse.

In US currency, that £180.00 is about $300.00, not a small amount, but quite a bargain if it results in personal peace and satisfaction.

I have a hard time shaking the false belief that "Real Men" don't cry. If I can keep things bottled up long enough the emotions will eventually pass and I will be able to remain stoic. When the emotions come with such intensity, the bottle bursts and I feel like I've failed the "Real Man" test once again. Having received my failing grade, I gave up and let the tears come in buckets.




Val,
I see your dilemma, you are looking for a psychologist that will tell you what you want to hear. [...] Do that and then weigh the two in together. [...] I wish you and your wife well for the future.

When you put it that way, it sounds so ... so wrong. I should be seeking truth, not validation.

[MatildaJ.]

Is it possible for you to let go of trying to be a "Real Man" or a "Real Woman," and just let yourself be? If you feel emotional, let it out. If you feel scared of the future, let yourself feel scared. If you feel anxious, let yourself feel anxious. Treat yourself well. If wearing feminine clothes helps with the anxiety, try that. Can you give yourself permission to let people down and let yourself down, and then just try to observe what you end up wanting, when you put yourself first?

[Katey888]

Dear MsVal - I think much good advice has passed already here and I've had the benefit of reading your later post, so I'll keep this brief...

I agree with others that this therapist you saw appears neither objective nor interested in really understanding you. I've read a lot of what you've written here and while I would accept that you share this TG-thing many of us exhibit, I would not have put you right at one end of the bell curve in that small percentage who are TS, let alone transition. I get the feeling from what you say here that there are still other things you are conflicted or confused about (in terms of gender roles and your relationships with others) and I am staggered that this therapist has not taken more time to explore other aspects of you and your life that would take way more than one session... I'm not a professional but others here are and have said the same: don't go back - find another!

It's not just 'a positive' that your wife is a saint and that you have such a strong and open relationship - it's the biggest thing you've got to help you through this. It is THE POSITIVE in all of this - and I know it's clear that you value it massively and rightly so.

Keep talking to your wife - Take your time over all of this - keep going to the Crossroads support - and find another therapist for you... that scares the bejeebers out of me and should you too, but in a way that just makes you find another! Maybe there's a chance they're correct, but I'm darned sure I'd want a more considered second opinion on something that significant...

And you are far from pathetic... :hugs: You have been incredibly strong and honest to share so much with everyone here, and it's those two things and your relationship that will get you through this...

All the best

Katey x

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Ms Val, I think it's time for a second opinion.

[reb.femme]

I'm sorry you're in so much pain :(

And is it common for a therapist to insist the client is transexual when the client says otherwise? I find this strange, but maybe her job is to see what you won't? Do you think you'd transition if you weren't married? Can someone ever really repress such a thing?

Your wife sounds like an amazing, strong woman (as do you!) and I hope you can continue to figure this out together x


I wanted to say exactly this, so I will merely second Tinkerbell in her extremely succinct reply. I would simply reiterate the "And is it common for a therapist to insist the client is transexual when the client says otherwise?....." It's almost as if the therapist has an agenda....startling really!

Rebecca

[bimini1]

Definitely seek a second opinion. Never let anyone, therapist or not tell you who you are. Your answers are within you not outside you. A good therapist will help you peel away that onion and get to the root, not just tell you well based on what we've seen this is what you are, no.

Hell, you might be TS but further inspection is certainly warranted. Hang in there as there are no easy answers for alot of us. This forum continues to be my lifeline during dark days when I can't get to my own therapist.

[MsVal]

Is it possible for you to let go of trying to be a "Real Man" [...] Can you give yourself permission to let people down and let yourself down, and then just try to observe what you end up wanting, when you put yourself first?

I understand what you say, Jess, and would like to be able to embrace that philosophy. To do so would require undoing decades of behavior and beliefs. It would feel unnatural. You see, I'm the firstborn in a dysfunctional family. Responsibility and accountability are a part of my core beliefs. I take care of me only after everyone else has been cared for. I simply cannot let people down, and the pain this crossdressing has caused my dear wife eats at me like a cancer.



[...] I agree with others that this therapist you saw appears neither objective nor interested in really understanding you. I've read a lot of what you've written here and while I would accept that you share this TG-thing many of us exhibit, I would not have put you right at one end of the bell curve in that small percentage who are TS, let alone transition. [...] I'm not a professional but others here are and have said the same: don't go back - find another!

It's not just 'a positive' that your wife is a saint and that you have such a strong and open relationship - it's the biggest thing you've got to help you through this. It is THE POSITIVE in all of this - and I know it's clear that you value it massively and rightly so. [...] And you are far from pathetic... :hugs: You have been incredibly strong and honest to share so much with everyone here, and it's those two things and your relationship that will get you through this...

True, I've written quite a bit, and none of it should reflect an eagerness to move past center. If anything, I would like to be thought of as one that wishes this would simply go away and let me get on with my normal, dull, boring, traditional life. I had a crying spell this morning, wondering when this went from an occasional passtime to the curse it has become. (That sounds over dramatic?)

Last night for the first time, my wife read the posts on this forum, beginning with this thread. She is committed to supporting me. God bless her. For every one of my many weaknesses she has strengths.

This thread exists because I feel strongly about contributing to the knowledge pool from which I have drawn so much. Strength and honesty have little to do with it, but thank you very much for the kinds words.




[...] Your answers are within you not outside you. [...] This forum continues to be my lifeline.

The answer may be within me, but I am ignorant of what to look for and not able to be objective. I will use an analogy.
If I developed a severe pain in my chest, I would do an amateurish self assessment for symptoms of a heart attack. If I believed that it was not a heart attack I would still want to see a doctor for confirmation that everything is okay. In this context, even though I don't believe that I am anything but a crossdresser, I want a professional confirmation of my belief.

This forum and the wonderful, knowledgeable, helpful people that populate its pages keeps me centered. Thanks to everyone.

Best wishes
MsVal

[MatildaJ.]

Ms.Val
>> I simply cannot let people down >>

Are you currently working with a therapist on that issue? I think that would interfere with your ability to live happily in any gender, so it seems more urgent to work on that first.

It's like they say on the airplanes -- get your own oxygen mask on before you try to assist others.

[Tina_gm]

So much sounds so similar to how I sometimes feel about it all. I do think that what is troubling you is the therapist who suggested you are TS and will only feel contentment if you pursue the full process of transition. Whereas you are feeling much as I do, not seeking more femininity, and would be plenty happy if it all went away. Yet, it does not go away, and none of it makes sense seeing as how you do not and have not sought any of it out. Femininity on the other hand seems to have sought us out.

My current feelings and goals are to continue the path of personal acceptance. And that can seem like a rabbit hole. I think I have come to a good acceptance only to realize I haven't gotten anywhere near as far as I thought I have. And to bring peace and harmony to my inner self. I believe what is most important for me at this point is to continue the path of self acceptance, and to bring peace and harmony to myself. When I can get farther down the road on that, then maybe be more focused on what, if anything I really need to do in terms of expression. Who knows, maybe (for me) coming to a greater acceptance and peace and harmony may bring me more ability to deal with being a feminine male, and the physical expression may not be as necessary. Or that it will just be somewhat easier to deal with it all, and the times I do spend with the physical expression, mostly dressing will simply be happy occasions, regardless of when or how often or how much.

[Marcelle]

Hi Ms Val,

I am sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations but I do see good light at the end of tunnel for your and your lovely wife as you work through these issues.

WRT the psychologist well as a professional in that field and one who has gone through therapy with a gender identity therapist . . . I don't think I have ever seen such a quick assessment based on a first session. This normally takes several sessions to get to the root of the issue if there is one. My recommendation . . . do not go back.

Hugs

Isha

[MsVal]

I'm feeling MUCH better now.

Acting on the advice of the best friends a CD could have, and with the encouragement of my dear wife, I saw a different therapist yesterday, one that came recommended by my wife's therapist.

I wanted her to confirm that I was suffering from an overactive imagination, that I am not actually a crossdresser, and certainly not transsexual. That didn't happen. She said that for a couple reasons, I fit the pattern of a crossdresser. However, I don't fit the pattern of one that will transition.

There are many very dear gals that have already, or are in the process of transitioning, who share their life experiences and wisdom on this forum. They face hardships and struggles far beyond what I think I could bear. While I wish them all big hugs and great days, I am thankful for the confirmation that I am not likely to join their numbers.

You should know by now that I consider this crossdressing thing a shameful curse and transitioning a dark, frightening journey. The good news / bad news story then becomes: MsVal is "just" a crossdresser. I don't know whether to cry or to cheer.

<grumble>

We talked about what I should do about it. Her advice was to cease feeling shame and accept it as a part of "me". Getting comfortable with the idea that it' okay to be a crossdresser will take a bit of work, and she is willing to help. I will see her again next Monday.

When the session was over, while brooding in my truck and checking my smart phone for messages I found the most timely, uplifting note from my sweet wife. She had done some research on line and wrote to me about a cute wig that she thinks would look good on me. How could she know how badly I needed that note? (How could a guy like me ever be so incredibly fortunate to have a wife so incredibly sweet?)

The clouds of depression were blown away and I can see new peaks on the horizon.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Tina_gm]

Well that is wonderful news Ms. Val. A therapist who is best for you will be one who will work with you for you. Whether you are or are not CD, TS ABCDEFG..... whatever path in life you want or don't want is what you should strive for. If you do not see or want a life with transition, regardless of where you are in all of this, then that is a path you shouldn't take. It looks like this therapist is more interested in not labeling you, but rather for you to simply accept and be comfortable with yourself. That is ultimately what is most important for all of us. And you are blessed with a wife who is going to go down that path with you.

[Jenelle]

Awesome news Val! I really like the sound of this new therapist :)

[samantha rogers]

Hi Val,
So sorry for being late responding to all this my dear friend. I have not been good keeping up lately... working on my own issues, sorry.
But after reading through all this, and having had the pleasure of meeting you IRL, I would totally concur that the first therapist was way off base...do not even talk to that person again!
I so applaud you and your wonderful wife. And I am so happy that you are now getting the good help that you need.
I am so glad we got to meet, and I do hope everything works out well for you. You are a dear friend and I really wish you all the best.
Hugs
Sammie

PS do not go back to that first therapist. Tee hee

[ReineD]

Hmm ... where do you find all these people who tell you who you are during the very first session? :D

Still I'm glad you found someone that you feel comfortable with. In my view, if a person is not sure whether they are CD or TS, it's best for a therapist to err on the safe side and not pronounce "transsexualism" right away, than make an immediate pronouncement that someone is TS (which does imply transition)! This is why I was so concerned with that first therapist. It's better to adopt a wait and see strategy when a person isn't sure, than to jump into changes that would be hard to undo in the future. As much as you said that you don't like to let things ride for months or years, this is the wisest thing to do if you're unsure to the point where you feel you need a diagnosis.

Trust me, Ms Val, in time the picture will become clearer to you, the more you go out and do things, and you won't need to have someone tell you who you are.

[Katey888]

Awesome is right! :cheer:

Great news! And I'm sure there will be lot's here also who are feeling MUCH better too..! Me included...

Your first therapist was a certifiable fruit loop who should not be allowed to practice - this new one seems much more realistic...

So - you're just a common or garden crossdresser....? Woo Hoo !!!! :yahoo:

When you have your graduation ceremony will you share pictures? ;)

Lovely! :D

Katey x

PS: Did I say you have a fantastic wife...? No..? Well - you do... :)

[Lidea]

Happy for you, Val.

[MeganDay]

Wow. Just wow. Val, honey, you're doing great so far (said the non-professional girl who just started on this road). Least it seems that way to me. :) A LOT of us are dealing with the whole "Real Man" syndrome (that's what I call it) where we feel like we're not meeting what's expected of us. For myself, I've realized long ago that being a real man isn't in who you sleep with, how many you sleep with, what you wear, or anything like that. It's in how you meet your responsibilities, how you treat those around you, and especially how you treat those closest to you. From what I can see, you're doing fine. I'd worry more about being the Real You than anything else.

I would agree that the first therapist you saw was way off base. Not because she said something you didn't want to hear, but because she made a snap diagnosis on the basis of one session and some time seeing you in a group. In my opinion, a therapist that makes a complete diagnosis THAT fast is just trying to sell you something. As I said, I'm not a mental health professional at all (but you've heard the same thing from others that are), but I'm an educated, reasonably well-read girl (at least part-time <g>), so I don't think I'm too far off base.

Feel free to drop me a line in PM if you what to chat more. Always up for making new friends :)

I hope my wife is half as good with this as yours has been. I'll be talking to her pretty soon about all of this.

For now, take care of yourself, let your awesome lady wife take care of you, too. Sometimes we just need to do that, no matter what underwear we have on. It's good to know there are others who love us enough to take care of us when we need it.

Warm hugs!

Megan

[MsVal]

I have some awesome friends, and yes, a truly absolutely amazing wife.

A little update.

I have not been avoiding the forum, in fact I miss our chats quite a bit. Now that my sweetheart is off work and the weather has become MUCH better, we have been up to here with chores. <MsVal points to a place a little above her head> We may be finished in time for Christmas.

While working together on those chores we talk about a lot of stuff. In this context, we talked about this Saturday's Crossroads meeting. I have it on the calendar as an optional thing that may be superseded by something more important to the family. She sees it as something more important than that, and family stuff will just have to wait. Furthermore, when I mentioned that I need a little shopping time to pick up and experiment with makeup, she offered to help me pick out the things I will need AND HELP ME USE THEM.

To those that may be following this thread and have unaccepting wives, I wish you well. I know that our situation is unique, and not common enough. I have no magic formula but I can offer some things that seem to work for us.

(1) We are totally honest with each other. This does not mean "brutally honest"; we employ a great deal of tact. This has a secondary effect. Knowing that we will be honest about all things, we think twice about doing those things that would be hard to explain. There will be times when it will be very difficult, but over time, the cumulative effect of complete honesty is complete trust.

(2) We respect each other, and each other's opinions. We do not always agree, and where we disagree, we accept that the points of disagreement are valid, even if we don't understand them. I may not know or understand all her opinions, but I do know that she has given them adequate thought and they are important to her. Anything that is important to her is important to me.

(3) We DEMONSTRATE our love by giving something precious, our undivided attention, our time, and our effort. I try to spoil her, and I'm not troubled if she acts spoiled because she tries to spoil me too. We have been playing this game of matching or exceeding the other's kindness for nearly 30 years. Sure there are times when health or work interferes, but before long, the situation reverses and the kindness flows the other way.

Thanks for all your support.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Jenny Elwood]

Hi Val

I am glad to hear that you've pulled through your bad spot. I've rooted for you all the way and look forward to your little gems of wisdom in future.

-Jen