My experiment with Discrimination ...Pressing Buttons & Pushing Envelopes

[Adriana Moretti]

So I wanted to share with you gals an interesting thing that happened to me recently. I was kind of discriminated against ( I think..you let ME know ) either way I found it interesting.

..I decided for the summer it would be nice to rent a little farm house, cabin, or cottage up in the mountains in upstate New York for a Month and take a nice long holiday. Have some privacy, and some quality ME time. So I posted an Ad on craigslist ( in the rentals wanted section) stating I was a Graphic Artist looking for a place to " work" for a month. ( Those that know me know that that is also the truth) ..one of the responses I got back from my ad included these questions..

Tell me more about you please
Pets?
Kids?
Age?
Male / Female?
Photos?
Thanks!

hmmm....ok. Male / Female???? ..since I am ONLY looking for a summer rental I figured this would be a good time to push the envelope a bit and do some experimenting and see what would happen if I told this person I was a crossdresser. Would I get a response? Or would they run to the hills? So I told them I was a bit of both, a male who also dresses as a woman. I also included a photo of myself as a girl ( The one inside my profile) Now at this point im curious to see if I am going to get a response..I figured why not be honest right? Whats the worst that can happen? I dont get this 1 cottage? It is not the end of the world...but lets just SEE what he says lets SEE how he reacts...is he cool with it? Needless to say its been 24 hours and I have not heard back...something tells me I'm not going to. I like to push buttons, and limits, and I was curious....its not the end of the world at all....but it lets me know how far we ALL have to go to be treated as equals. Just wanted to share my thoughts .

[Teresa]

Hi Adriana,
Look at this the other way round, if you had a cottage would you want to know or just be happy that you'd earned some money and if they didn't trash it that's fine ?
We use to rent out a cottage and never knew who took it, the one thing that annoyed me was the damage they did !
We had one occasion when an irate father claimed we had allowed his son to break open the pay phone to buy drugs ! We lived two hours drive away what could we do about it ! We finally let it long term to two guys, we never knew their relationship and never asked but eventually we sold it to them.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Adriana, I would be very careful with Craigslist.

[Marcelle]

Hey Adriana,

It is hard to say. Some people I know are particular who they rent to. A friend of mine had a very bad experience with two young women who rented his cottage for a long weekend and ended up having a bit of a wild party at the expense of $20,000 damage. He will now only rent to families. The extra information seems reasonable if they are looking for a specific demographic however the "photo" part (WTF :eek:). How a photo could have anything to do a person's ability to a cottage is beyond me . . . unless the renter is looking for some hotties (surprised they didn't ask for a bathing suit shot :))

I would wait to see if you hear back. Who knows the renter could be busy, mulling it over in their mind. Let's face it when you get a response from a person who says boy/sometimes girl, that can throw people for a bit of a loop. In the end even if you don't hear back, as you said no big loss. Next time just say "girl" or include a bikini shot :battingeyelashes: :)

Hugs

Isha

[Adriana Moretti]

yea Isha...the photo part thru me for a loop too...so I figured why not have fun with the poor guy...and JUST see his reaction to gals like us....so ANYONE got a summer rental for me...??

[JenX]

When you got to the male/friend question, just answer yes. ;-)

[noeleena]

Hi.

Well its not summer over here = down under its winter though we do have some very lovely nice days must have im working on a house roof with 4 days to go. oh yes getting to my point our house yes will be all lonesome for 6 weeks from 6th of June just one miner bit ,it may be a bit far for you to come.

myself i dont care what a person wear's so long as they look after our place,

And those around me know me well enough so when i have my friends come and stay they know some of my friends are dressers and Trans people, so no issues here, and i indroduce them as well.

...noeleena...

[Kate Simmons]

Would be neat if you found a place near me. Then we could go out clubbing my friend. :battingeyelashes::)

[Rogina B]

This is going to sound critical of your situation. You didn't choose a gender identity.You did choose a picture.You revealed a lifestyle choice.Not much of an experiment in my opinion. A different situation would be if you were a full time woman,used your female name[assuming your last name is really yours],and corresponded with the cottage owner in that manner,including your picture. If accepted as a tenant,you send your deposit check,and lock the deal up. This Summer,when you arrive there as Adrianna,if the landlord then had a problem with you being a Transwoman,and only then,would this be an act of discrimination. The situation as you described it is about the same as if your picture was that of a biker babe and the guy didn't care for the biker lifestyle,nothing more. Please remember that I am an activist on Transgender rights and that is not how you are identifying here.

[Katey888]

Adriana - are you sure it was a 'he' responding of was that an assumption on your part (I can't see that your post defines this..) - so I wonder if the responder gender would make a difference...?

On a personal note, if I were renting a cottage I wouldn't expect to be asked for a photo from the renter... that's all a bit too 'Friday 13th' for me... Why should they care what you look like?

From a rental POV I'd go with Theresa's line - as long as I had a secure deposit from you, and sufficient identification, I wouldn't be worried about a single male or female trashing the place...

Will be interesting to see the response - I'd say odds on you'll just get a confirmation.. :)

Katey x

[paulaprimo]

once he gets your picture, his response back to you might be, send more pictures! :)
love your new avatar btw...you look awesome!!
you can always do it "goomba style"...make him an offer he can't refuse! :D

[avant1465]

AS someone who has rentals (3 of 'em), (largely, seasonal,..... but active all year, nonetheless) I'd say it's none of my business what you look like, and what you intend to do, in my house.... as long as it is not illegal, nor does it damage or destroy the place. I'm appalled at the list of questions/details that you received.....

P.S. I'd be far happier with a crossdresser as a guest, than having a smoker!!!!!!

[Beverley Sims]

I always adopt a minimalist to questions of that nature.
Ask no questions and you shall be told no lies.
I would myself not use craigslist or some other questionable internet site to do any business where I had to give personal details.

[Jason+]

This is going to sound critical of your situation. You didn't choose a gender identity.You did choose a picture.You revealed a lifestyle choice.Not much of an experiment in my opinion. A different situation would be if you were a full time woman,used your female name[assuming your last name is really yours],and corresponded with the cottage owner in that manner,including your picture. If accepted as a tenant,you send your deposit check,and lock the deal up. This Summer,when you arrive there as Adrianna,if the landlord then had a problem with you being a Transwoman,and only then,would this be an act of discrimination. The situation as you described it is about the same as if your picture was that of a biker babe and the guy didn't care for the biker lifestyle,nothing more. Please remember that I am an activist on Transgender rights and that is not how you are identifying here.

Adriana clearly states
So I told them I was a bit of both, a male who also dresses as a woman. Assuming that Adriana is as qualified a prospective tenant as any other if the only reason the owner declines to rent the property is cross dressing that would be discriminatory and neither more nor less wrong than refusing to rent to a Transwoman. Having only been 24 hours in at the time of the OP it may be they simply haven't gotten to responding yet.

[Adriana Moretti]

no response yet...i dont think im getting one...and yes i found his line of questioning a little weird...so i figured just have some fun with him and see his reaction. If he wants a photo...he got one LOL. it seems crossdressers cant rent summer homes without leaving the closet.

[PamelaMiller]

I think the questions were OK. It's fair to want to know something about the person that is going to live in your house. The request for the photo however is weird and out of line.

Your answer about being a CD? Hardly a button press or envelope push to me. He asked an honest question, you gave an honest answer.

I agree too with those that say to stay away from Craigslist. I would go to a realtor that handles rentals. While it sucks to pay that extra commission, it might also give you a layer of vetting that you might not otherwise get. You have a right to know about your landlord just like he has a right to know about his tenant.

[reb.femme]

Hi Adriana,

Maybe they need a few more hours before getting back to you. Lord knows some people in the UK need a kick up the backside when trying to elicit a response for services. I always thought the US was the home of customer service, so maybe your country is being infected with the same UK malaise of ineptitude in dealing with those wishing to part with their cash. At least you know you have been up front in answering their questionairre.


Otherwise, and that was a very long winded way of saying, "you probably have been discriminated against" :heehee:.

Rebecca

[Wildaboutheels]

I think unconsciously [maybe?] you really don't want to rent. You have been here 6 months now. Far long enough to realize that even so many "experts" here [people that have been doing this a long time] don't even agree on what Crossdressing "is". And of course, I can't leave out the masses here who INSIST that most of the women in the RW get to/do Crossdress all the time and nobody cares. I seriously doubt if JD Public sees it that way. Very few here are fine with JUST wearing the wrong clothes and are likely to spend at LEAST a half hour in not 2 or 3 hours "transforming themselves" into a female or at least trying to. I seriously doubt if ANY of those CDing ladies spend more than a couple of minutes in their efforts? I could be wrong...

IF it is true that most CDers go whole hog in their presentation and try to blend and aren't well over 6 feet and 200 lbs, most people will NOT notice unless they choose a red dress or are tottering around in spiky 5 inch heels and a miniskirt.

Tell most anyone you DON'T know you are a CDer and unless they actually know a CDer [what IS a CDer] they are likely to be be fearful or at the very least apprehensive. It's natural Human Behavior born of untold tens of thousands of years of Evolution. Fear of the unknown. Let's just assume he IS/WAS open minded. And was "sharp enough" to go on the web and try to find out about this CDing "thing". Just how many hours do you think he would spend trying to figure it out? And what is the most likely impression he would get given the ratio of "good sites" to "bad". Maybe he would go straight to Wiki? [I wonder what Wiki has to say?]

Depending on how long he has been renting, he has likely had at least one bad tenant if not several, as already related here. One of my Xs had rental property for many years and had all kinds of horror stories. Very hard to get bad tenants out or at least it was 20 years ago.

But of course, you do seem to be a button pusher. Might have to push a lot of buttons to get a rental though. I don't know your legal requirements in your state and if you MUST disclose gender? I see it as pretty simple. If you have fully functional male parts, you put down M. Ok, maybe by law they don't need to be "fully" functional?

The most important thing here to remember and many others here agree. Most people ARE open minded when you can SHOW them by word and deed out in the RW, you are simply another regular, decent, law abiding citizen, who is not in any way a threat.

[Adriana Moretti]

I think unconsciously [maybe?] you really don't want to rent.
.....your right....after he asks for a pic why would I thats not right so i wrote it off ....then its open season to mess with him....thats a "FACT".... you know all about those right.... there I go again....

[Tracii G]

My first wife and I had a nice cabin in Pigeon Forge Tenn and it stayed rented over 250 days a year and we never had much trouble with people damaging it.
I would have deff rented to CDers.

[NicoleScott]

You haven't heard back so you assume discrimination. And that the discrimination is based on your crossdressing. You went looking for prejudice and you found it (at least in your mind). Surprise.

[Rogina B]

I am glad Nicole made the same point. You are not a Transwoman.You identified yourself as a crossdresser to the cottage owner. There is nothing other than the property owner choosing not to rent to you.Just the same if the cottage was on a quiet lake and your picture was of a man standing beside a couple of jetskis on a trailer behind a jacked up pickup truck. He may not want to disturb the quiet lake with your lifestyle..and that is his choice.And that is not at all about the discrimination Transwoman face often. You were GFing him,and nothing more serious than that!

[valerieg]

Interesting. A couple of weeks ago I was making plans for attending Pinkfest in Chicago (in October) and noticed the high hotel prices. I thought I'd try a different route. I signed up for AirBnB and started looking at what was available there. For most of the offers I looked at I'd just be renting out a room or something not much larger. This is usually in someone's home, while they are also living there. That being the case, I thought it wise to disclose my CD nature. The "important" part of the inquiry went like this "I'm looking for inexpensive and comfortable accommodations for a trip in October to attend the annual Pinkfest gathering. ... The most important question I have to ask is - are you comfortable with transgendered guests? I am a 50 yr old male to female crossdresser. I am primarily conservative in both appearance and demeanor."

In both cases, the response was "no problem, you're welcome here". Now, Chicago and Upstate New York may be worlds apart culturally, but I have to say I was pleased by both responses.

Of course it is Chicago. My wife and I took a girls weekend trip there about a month ago. Thursday to Monday, all en-femme. One evening we were waiting for the bus and my wife sat down in the shelter while I stood just outside it. A woman and her two children sat by my wife and the following conversation ensued:

Little Girl to older Brother: "Wow, that woman sure is tall"
Brother: "I think that's a guy. What do you think mom?"
Mother: "Yep, that's a guy"
Little Girl: "Well, those are ugly shoes"
My wife told me this story the next day. My response... "and then they didn't care, right?". That was the case. I told her that the next time that happens she should follow up with "How do you know that's a guy? Seriously, I'm his wife and he'd want to know".

Incidentally, the shoes were 4-inch black and white heels with a brogue design... Bailey from Barefoottess. I picked those that night because we were going to a 1920's speakeasy themed dinner theater. We were the first to arrive and were seated front and center. It was a fun night and trip.

[AnnieMac]

Oh, Pooh . . .Adriana! Crossdressing isn't the problem at all. People just don't want to share a house with a graphic designer! :)
. .I work in media too so I get it.

[kimdl93]

I guess it's an interesting, but uncontrolled experiment. Instead, why not work with a realtor and visit the units en femme. Don't tell them anything regarding your gender and see what happens.

[Samantha Clark]

Check with a local lawyer, but the landlord could be in legal hot water not only for gender discrimination but potentially race discrimination as well. Asking for a photo invites a claim for race discrimination in my book, and I would not have advised the landlord to do that.

[Rogina B]

I guess it's an interesting, but uncontrolled experiment. Instead, why not work with a realtor and visit the units en femme. Don't tell them anything regarding your gender and see what happens.

Exactly! And perhaps you will find that it is all well and good..which I believe you will!

[Sarasometimes]

I think you misunderstood the photos? She/he was innocently asking if you planned on taking photos as a graphic artist at the cottage. Right?

Male/female? Your correct answer is Male. Did you also answer the other questions and how so? Also did you put "work" in quotes? Ifso that may have been misunderstood.

Granted the Photo? Question is enough for me to not reply (regardless of any circumstance on my part,CREEPY, SCARY).

Not sure anything can be concluded by this but I do think you are getting something out of it.

[Tina_gm]

Check with a local lawyer, but the landlord could be in legal hot water not only for gender discrimination but potentially race discrimination as well. Asking for a photo invites a claim for race discrimination in my book, and I would not have advised the landlord to do that.Um, no not really. A landlord may have numerous people whom to choose from, and it is their option who to rent or lease it to.

[Momarie]

Exemptions to the Fair Housing Act? Not Many — But Here Are Some.

As written, the FHA covers most — but not all — housing. Some exemptions to coverage under the FHA include: (a) owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units (which is commonly known as the Mrs. Murphy exemption); (b) single family housing sold or rented without the use of a broker if the private individual owner does not own more than three such single family homes at one time; or (c) housing operated by organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members.

[Vickie_CDTV]

It is really bizarre a landlord asked for a picture of you. He is inviting himself to be sued by some hustler looking to shakedown someone for "discrimination."

[Samantha Clark]

Exemptions to the Fair Housing Act? Not Many — But Here Are Some.

As written, the FHA covers most — but not all — housing. Some exemptions to coverage under the FHA include: (a) owner-occupied buildings with no more than four units (which is commonly known as the Mrs. Murphy exemption); (b) single family housing sold or rented without the use of a broker if the private individual owner does not own more than three such single family homes at one time; or (c) housing operated by organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members.

And, because the FHA does not expressly preempt State regulation or "occupy the field," local regulations could provide greater protection against discrimination than the FHA. Thus local laws could apply to those otherwise exempt under Federal law.

[NicoleScott]

Sometimes people find themselves with an extra house - might as well rent it out for extra income rather than sell it. My guess is that people in this situation are somewhat protective of their property and don't want to rent to "just anyone" first-come-first-served, but want to rent to someone they feel comfortable with after checking all the prospects out. Not being chosen doesn't mean there was any discrimination. I think situations like this are the reason for the exemptions mentioned.

[donnalee]

Hi Adriana,

Maybe they need a few more hours before getting back to you. Lord knows some people in the UK need a kick up the backside when trying to elicit a response for services. I always thought the US was the home of customer service, so maybe your country is being infected with the same UK malaise of ineptitude in dealing with those wishing to part with their cash. At least you know you have been up front in answering their questionairre.


Otherwise, and that was a very long winded way of saying, "you probably have been discriminated against" :heehee:.

RebeccaIn the US, basically, if you don't do your job satisfactorily, you can wind up not eating or having a roof over your head, especially with the current economy.