Where is this all taking me

[VickiTheGamer]

So, I grew up being a closet CD'er. The ol' dress up when living alone, purging when feeling guilty. Or dress up when alone, but then when meeting a women, purge for fear of her finding out. Etc., Etc. So on and so forth. At least, that is how it always was. Before I met the women of my dreams.

I have found the most wonderful person for me. She is perfect for me. So much so that I opened up to her about my CD interests. This all took place a number of years ago when we started dating. I fell deeply enough in love that I shared my most scary thought. Someone finding out.

Well, in time she became quite comfortable with Vicki being home and hanging out with her. So much so that we chat about anything feminine. Makeup, clothing, bra's, etc. When we go shopping for clothing for her, she even looks for stuff for Vicki. Now mind you, I am still only an at home CD'er with only one "Out of the house experience" which I will share in a sec.

So, when at home after work, or on the weekends. If no plans with others. I am Vicki. Which of course is wonderful because I am able to be myself more.

So now the stuff I am not sure about. - - -

Lately, I have been finding myself wanting to be "more" feminine than I wanted in the past. As in, I have this crazy desire or urge to look into hormones.

All my life, I fantasized about being able to finally get to dress up and be Vicki. Now that I have that ability, and even better I can any time I want because I have a GF who is quite comfortable with Vicki around. Yet.....now....I am finding I am wanting more. What's with that? Am I a Transsexual (and not just a CD'er) and just didn't realize it?

For example, for the first time ever going out of the house where the public could see me, I dressed for Halloween. I dressed up as a women (Vicki) and went out into public. For it, I went all out. I shaved my body (GF helped with my back), I plucked most of my beard out, and for a few weeks I even tried to alter my voice so that when out, it would not be as difficult to maintain. It was like heaven not having to shave my face every day, and the way my body felt so smooth. I loved it so much I kept shaving my body for weeks after that. Every morning after showering I would admire my smooth skin and as I cleaned up I found myself fantasizing over and over about the idea of hormones to reduce/eliminate the muscle I have built over the years (VERY broad chest under the arms. Bra's do NOT fit well).

It was.... well, the best way to put it is, it was intoxicating. I wanted more and more.

In fact, to try to reduce the desire to be more feminine, to try and reduce the drive to get hormones, I have grown the body hair back and stopped the plucking of the beard. Yet, when I see myself in the mirror I feel like I am looking at a hairy Ape now instead of the beautiful Vicki I was.

Is this normal for CD'ers. Do we all find ourselves wanting more and more? It's... well to be frank, it is exciting and yet scary at the same time. Please, don't get me wrong. I don't want surgery, I don't have any drive to be Vicki 24/7. But my god, how awesome it was being Vicki like that on Halloween how much I STILL desire more. To want a feminine body. Smooth soft skin, no need to shave my beard off, no more muscles, and to have real honest to goodness breasts.

Does this urge, this drive pass? Or....will I now be caught in the middle like some mixed up man/women person always wanting more yet, fearful if I did go further, would I then want to go back to who I am now? Is this a common feeling for CD'ers who get to finally live the feminine self they fantasized about? OR, am I a Transsexual and just don't seem to be accepting it?

I do hope I have posted this in the right forum. I seem to make that mistake a lot. :(

Vicki

[Donnagirl]

Wow pink fog to the max.... I know I have felt really strong desires, the more you get - the more you want. Normally costs me a fortune on the old Visa card. I don't know of a cure, but relax and try to gain a little perspective. Don't rush into any decisions without discussions. You are so lucky to have a fully supportive partner.

[Aprilrain]

This does sound a bit pink fog-ish to me. Your focus on "femininity" and feeling "intoxicated" are kinda tell tale pink fog.

You mentioned hormones. Could you and your partner accept the inevetible loss of a male sex drive and sexual functioning?

How would your partner feel about the changes that hormones would bring to your body like scent, soft skin, potential loss of body hair (does nothing for facial hair), mood swings, more emotional, crying and yes what every CD wants BOOBS!
Don't expect anything impressive in that department though.

There is likely a huge difference in your SOs mind between what you are currently doing and transition. Most relationships don't survive transition.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

April says a lot of good things.

You are a crossdresser, or you are not...heh.
You would not be the first transsexual to spend years crossdressing and "realize" that is was not about crossdressing.
I think its totally ok to explore your nature in an honest and open way. There is every reason to post here if this is on your mind...hopefully there is no judgment here... but I will say run away as fast as you can..

You will never be the feminine creature you feel in your minds eye.
If you read posts and talk to therapy clients there is one huge tell.. cd's tend to discuss their transsexual fantasies in the way you do... intoxicating, lovely, delightful, sensual, soft, silky....more more more etc...
people realizing they are transsexual say things like...my life is over, I can't survive this, i'm going to lose my job, my wife left me..they feel trapped and existentially lonely in their male lives....................make it stop...I can't stand it anymore...etc..

The costs(physical, time, work, $$, loved ones) of transition are super high in every way and no sane person would do it unless they felt they absolutely had to.

or think of it this way..
Do you have $100,000 lying around? Do you want to get looked at everywhere you go? Are you prepared to find out that all that plucking destroyed your follicles making permanent hair removal much harder? Prepared for your wife totally changing her tune (no matter what she says now) when it hits her that her husband is actually a woman? prepared for losing your sex drive? plus basically everybody in your life will change their relationship with you and you risk losing your job and your friends (no matter what they would say now)..

Read the story of Charles Kane to get an idea of what happens when people that are intoxicated about femininity decide to transition.

I would consider finding a therapist in any case..explore...don't let others tell you what to do but LEARN from their experience ... read the posts around here and read the posts in cd forum... its apples and oranges

BTW
you are wasting your time purging and not exploring your feminine side... like transsexuals that fail to "not transition" after fighting it for many years, crossdressers always fail at fighting whatever urge each has to be more feminine ..

[becky77]

You haven't mentioned much about how you feel within yourself, most of what you have said is about external looks.
Do you like being a man?
As for hormones, I took hormones to help me feel better, the physical side effects are just a bonus.

We could really do with a sticky on the true effects of hormones.
This idea of hormones as an almost non-surgical transformation miracle drug, needs to be easily dispelled. I see people constantly trying to explain what affect they can have on you.

Does sound like pink fog from what you have said. Take a read through other threads on here, see if you can relate to any?

[Angela Campbell]

As others have said, I see many differences between what I felt and what you describe. I always KNEW I was a girl. I didn't fantasize about it I feared it.

One thing I can tell you is that transition and what follows it is nothing like what I expected or imagined. Again repeating what has been said here hundreds of times......don't do it unless you have to.

[DeeArel]

It is normal wanting to have a more feminine body. In our minds, it simplifies the conversion process.

You invested a lot of time in plucking your face. I used to do it many years ago. Once I had done the whole face, I maintained it by plucking an hour each day. It was great never having to hide the shadow.

[tina99]

Besides seeing a therapist, as someone suggested, I suggest going to a transgender support group, if there's one in your area.

For me, the most significant milestone in my transition was changing my legal name to Tina - the "real me." That prompted me to come out to all of my relatives, because my gender identity was such a big secret that I just couldn't keep it a secret any longer.

I've known I was transsexual since I was very young. I transitioned 12 years ago and am happier now than I ever was when I played male. I am scheduled for an SRS intake meeting in August, and am looking forward to it.

I was lucky. I was able to successfully go full time even before starting hormones or beard removal. I'm only 5'6" (168 cm), have a white beard (I shave twice a week, and am getting electrolysis), and have developed a female voice. And most people were (and are) surprised to learn that I am TS - if I tell them. In other words, I have "Passing Privilege."

Many TS's are not that lucky. Some are read as TS even after they complete all their surgeries and hair removal. If they sound like a drill sergeant or are built like a linebacker, they will likely often get "read." Many true transsexuals don't care - they're just happy being their "true selves," regardless of what other people think of them.

I am what is sometimes called an Early Onset Transsexual. Late Onset Transsexuals, whether they are crossdressers or actually transsexuals are often harder to diagnose. About half of the Late Onset TS's I've known have realized that they were TS after a suicide attempt because of the distress that their Gender Dysphoria caused them.

Below is a web site that I've learned a lot from. It is one of the largest TG sites on the net. Lynn Conway was fired by IBM in the '60's for coming out as TS. She went on to become a very successful Computer Scientist and Engineer.

Lynn's site is at www.LynnConway.com .

Tina

[Dianne S]

it was intoxicating. I wanted more and more.

I am what tina99 refers to as a Late Onset TS. For years, I thought I was "just" a cross-dresser and only recently owned up to the fact that no, I am a female inside and want my outside to match.

You need to see a therapist to see if you're suffering from pink fog or are really TS. Ask yourself this: Can you see yourself living the rest of your life as a man? Could you handle that?

I asked that question and decided I could not. I have never been suicidal and don't think I ever would contemplate it, but I believe I would become mentally and physically sick if I had to go the rest of my life as a man. I do not see transitioning as a choice at this point; I see it as a medically necessary process.

[VickiTheGamer]

First let me say thank you so much for your patience with me, your input and loving help.

I also didn't kind of tell you everything. At this time in my life, I am also out of work and looking. But worse, I really don't want to do what I have done for the last 25 or so years. I want to find something else. My field has expanded beyond my skill set, and not only don't I want to go back to school to learn programming, the stupid industry pays so crappy now aswell. Just to many kids out there living with their parents doing the same thing now. Before you ask, the field is Graphic Design, and I am not some wonder designer. I am just very good at working with Graphic Software and Word Processing software. (I'm that guy everyone says "go to (insert my name), he will know"). So, being out of work might also have heightened my emotional state. The other thing I didn't say is, my GF and I have not made love in years. 3+ years. Menopause. She just does not want to and I won't unless she does. I just can't unless she has the desire. It is just to.....wrong. So, where the "no sexual desire" comes in. I would gladly accept that. Oh how I would love to NOT have the urge.

Having now shared that information I want to say, all of you have helped me look at this more closely. I have also gone out and looked up the "Pink Fog" and I can see what many of you are saying. Ugh, but it is soooo frigging hard. Even now with having a better idea of what some of this is about. It is like....well it's like an addiction almost. "but...it makes me feel so good". Yipes. I do agree about the Therapist idea. I just have to see what Kaiser has to offer. Tried to find out today and didn't find out anything. The end result was, I was told I need to see an Endocrinologist. I said "I am not looking to transition, just see a therapist to understand".

Aprilrain. You have hit a powerful point. VERY POWERFUL. My GF is the most perfect women for me in my life. She is so wonderful and special and loving. What you said opened my eyes more than I ever expected. She is very open and honest and supportive, but your right. IF I went through with the change, I no longer would be the me she fell in love with. I would be Vicki and....well, why even want to stay any more. She isn't a lesbian, and if I am not the guy she fell in love with.... then why stay. Her leaving because I chose to bring Vicki to the forefront and put the male me to the back is not an option.

As I mentioned. I can't figure myself out but I do know that I don't have any drive to be Vicki 24/7. I do want badly to be Vicki more often than I am now and it's manifesting it'self into a strong physical desire. That is what I am having the issue with and why I have reached out to you all. I don't have a therapist, and so, you are all my friends to help me. The friends I need at this time because these days, I have been finding I really want to be Vicki more and more, especially physically. I want some kind of middle area.

Becky77 asked me about myself inside. Emotionally, I feel I am both. I don't really want to be anyone else. I have taken a few tests here and there to check (tests on this site for example - transsexual.org/TEST0.html) and they ALL so far have come out the same. "Androgynous", but not the no sex version. They come out saying I have both sexes and that I am in the middle, being pulled both directions. A lot of my friends thought I was gay and when I help them realize I am not, they instead think of me as the "Gay guy who's not gay".

I tell them, "I am not Gay, I am balanced". (Males are repulsive, ugly, and quite undesirable to me Women on the other hand, WOW).

So when it comes to who I am inside. I like that part of me. I don't see any reason to want to change that. So, I don't really think about the "inside" part as much. As for the emotional stuff. Dear god. I already cry enough. This means crying even more. Hell, I cry more than my GF.

Again, I thank you all for your input and I DO plan to see what I can find in therapy.
Who knows, perhaps in time, I will get a local CD/TS game group together and we can get a Therapist to join the group too. Then, there you go. A therapy group too. :D.

I do however plan to re-read your wonderful words of wisdom over and over. They are now my strength.

As for doing some physical changing. Aaaaaaaa, how I so want it. I will wait though. I will be frustrated and wanting, but until I do see a therapist to help me understand this better I will hold off. I will most likely (once in a while) pluck my beard, shave my body and dream about having a more feminine body, (clicking heals together.....grrrr. No change) but, I will listen to you all. AND when the need arises to a point that I am having problems, I know who to talk to. YOU. You who have taken your hearts and put them on this site for people like me.

You are all so wonderful.

Thank you so much for being there.

Love always,
Vicki

[Tinkerbell-GG]

The other thing I didn't say is, my GF and I have not made love in years. 3+ years. Menopause. She just does not want to and I won't unless she does. I just can't unless she has the desire. It is just to.....wrong. So, where the "no sexual desire" comes in. I would gladly accept that. Oh how I would love to NOT have the urge.

Hi, GG piping in :) Not about the TS issue as really, what would I know?! But I thought I'd mention this lack of sex drive issue as I wouldn't assume it's just menopause. I've known of my H's crossdressing for many years and I'll be honest, the more I knew and saw, the less I wanted to have sex. It was like a major libido killer and still is. I love and respect my husband, he's still the same guy, but each time he showed his 'femme' side, my sexy side died! I have tried to figure out why by asking here and so far, the best I can come up with is some women are just hard-wired to find femininity unattractive. So maybe addressing this issue with your partner might help settle this 'pink fog' you're in?

Another little tip: You said you're avoiding initiating sex because she's not into it? Well, if it turns out she is turned off by your femme side, trust me, you need to initiate! This will help her remember that yes, you are still a masculine person underneath all the femme stuff.

Now, if someone could just tell my husband some of this...

Edit: And not sure why the quote turned out like this. I'm having a weird computer day...Vicki, you'll know why! :)

[Marcelle]

Hi Vicki,

You have a lot going on and as you explore your femme side it is not unnatural to feel a huge pull to push the limits. However, just because you think HRT might be a good idea the side effects are something you need to be prepared for. I highly recommend that before you make any decisions on where you sit on the TG spectrum (if you want to use that analogy) see a gender identity therapist. I was similar to you when I first came out to my wife and she accepted Isha completely. I started seeing a therapist immediately as she (my wife) wanted to know how far this was going to go. While I thought I might be TS, working with my therapist for the last 8 months has brought order to chaos for me. I am a guy who likes to dress and present as a girl (end story).

Regarding menopause and your relationship . . . right there with you. My wife is currently undergoing the change and for awhile I thought is might be Isha which reduced our forays (still happened but less). We talk about it often to ensure there is no issue but as she told me . . . sometimes she just doesn't feel like it but it is not me but her. Communication is key considering the situation.

Hugs

Isha

[becky77]

So when it comes to who I am inside. I like that part of me. I don't see any reason to want to change that. So, I don't really think about the "inside" part as much.


Well thats a double sided answer. Does that mean you are happy in your female identity and want your outside to match? If so seek a therapist.
Or are you saying you are happy in your general day-to-day guy identity, but want a more femine body for when you do dress?
Very different answers and important to know the difference.
For example I have never been comfortable in my own skin, I have always felt female and only through dejection of a life not possible, tried unsuccessfuly to live a normal male life to match my body. and what everyone else expects.
That ulimately failed and the GD was too strong, so I am now trying to make the outside match the inside.
The hormones work for me as they take away the Testoterone that makes me feel at odds with myself (feeling of wrongness) and the estrogen does whatever the estrogen does, don't know but I feel good about myself now. However in someone that doesn't feel female inside totally (and you say you already feel content, so no imbalance of hormones for you in theory) the hormones could make you feel really bad, as they will be at war with your true self rather than create peace with your trye self. Understand? It's hard to put into words.

[Katey888]

Hi Vicki,

The best advice here is that to seek professional help via a gender therapist or experienced counsellor - while you will certainly find many similar experiences on this site, our individual circumstances are so different... but it certainly sounds to me like you have a real need to get qualified advice on what is driving all this for you..

But be positive! On the plus side there are clearly many different ways forward for all of us... :hugs:

Katey x

[tina99]

For info about Charles Kane, whom Kaitlyn mentioned, go here:

https://www.google.com/#q=%22Charles+Kane%22+transsexual .

.
For more information about him and others who transitioned for the wrong reasons, go here:

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html .

[Confucius]

Hi Vicki, you're a sweetie, and your GF sounds like an angel.

I agree with those who suggest seeing a therapist. Generally a therapist does two things; (1) helps you distinguish between gender identification disorder, and simple cross-dressing, and (2) helps you to accept and feel happy with who you are.

I think that many of us can identify with the escalation problem. We feel the urge to go further, and then go further, and then go further, to infinity and beyond! For most of us its just the dopamine talking. Its the brain's neurotransmitters doing their work.

Let's look at your biology: Your brain is hardwired (the reasons why it got hardwired is up to speculation) to interpret cross-dressing as actual contact with a female. Appropriately, when you cross-dress your brain releases a host of neurotransmitters which produce the sensations of well-being, pleasure, sexual gratification, bonding, etc. It affects the reward centers of your brain, instant gratification, and thus it mimics the addiction response, Now, the way the brain works, if you do the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, well it causes the brain to fatigue. Your brain will release less dopamine and you will notice that you don't feel the thrill you knew before. You will crave the old sensations and feel the urge to take your cross-dressing further. You will fantasize about possible next steps. Some of us actually do take those next steps and others of us make a mental cost/benefit analysis and decide that it is better for us to live with our own boundaries.

We cannot make decisions for you, but you may do a little experiment with yourself to determine whether your feelings are driven by dopamine. When you are feeling these urges and you are cross-dressing, then do some self-stimulation. Let your mind enjoy your fantasies while you masturbate. You experience orgasm and immediately afterwards do a self-check on how you feel about taking hormones and taking your cross-dressing further. If you notice a sudden drop in interest in your gender explorations then it is due to dopamine. Your dopamine levels have dropped. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter associated with the drive for gratification, it is what produces the urges, and the expectations of pleasure. (It is also associated with compulsive/addictive behavior.) When you experience an orgasm your dopamine levels drop and you prolactin levels go up. After a short while your dopamine levels return to normal, and your urges return. However it may demonstrate that your urge to escalate is just your dopamine talking.

[Alice Torn]

Vidki, If i were you, i would marry that girlfriend, for one thing. I am 60, never had a steady girlfriend, and run into brick walls, when telling ones i am interested in. Remember: EASY DOES IT. Pink fog can get us into big messes . It does that to many of us. Being out of work does not make it easy to go to a therapist, unless you are a veteran, and the VA has a few good ones, or can go to a sliding scale one. One day at a time, or minute at a time. Think of 5 years down the road. These are very difficult times, and things may get a lot worse in America and the world. I, personally have been in survival mode, one or two small meals a day. It is wise to have a list of priorities, and work and income is number one or two now. First things first. I am preaching to stubborn, hard bipolar me, too!

[Beverley Sims]

Vicki,
I would seek a second opinion, see a therapist as I think a little professional advice would help you immensely.

[Michelle789]

Vicki,

I think seeing a good gender specialist will help a lot. I asked my therapist last time about cross-dressers, and she said that cross-dressers definitely have a core female identity, and gender dysphoria that is less progressed than that of a transsexual.

Charles Kane not only was not a transsexual, but he never was a cross-dresser, nor had any degree of female identity. He was a male identified person who had lots of money, and during a personal setback, decided on a whim to transition, and regretted it. Because he is a man. I'm honestly tired of people mistaking Charles Kane for being a CD fantasizer. He never cross-dressed in his life, nor had any childhood dysphoria. He was just an impulsive man that had a history of doing impulsive things. He had lots of money to throw around too to make mistakes, and then unmake them.

As for the other transition failures, yes I do see people who transition for the wrong reasons.

There are many paths you could go down. I think seeing a gender specialist can help you sort this out. Joining a transgender support group can help you to see if you relate to anyone there and their feelings. Take small steps. Just try going out en femme as often as possible. Maybe after a while start hair removal. I hope you find the road to peace and happiness. Please feel free to PM me if you need to talk :)

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Vicki, Be careful there are two kind of therapist the one's that will help you and the one's that will tell you what you want to hear.

[Farrah]

I think its just a bad case of the Pink Fog. I've felt like I wanted more a times. However, at the end of the day, I'm content with having/being both. ;). I was telling my wife, that I'm a complicated guy/girl. I can go from watching football and playing video games to the most girly of conversation.

[MsVal]

Vicki, I suggest this simple and inexpensive way to find out:

Give it time.

From what I've read and personally felt, and you have experienced, the cyclic nature of crossdressing can swing like a pendulum. It appears you are approaching one end of the arc and one day will begin to swing back. It's okay to feel the way you do, and I suggest that you do nothing of a permanent nature until you've gone through a couple cycles.

Okay, you've already gone hot and cold in the past. The thing that makes this time different from previous times is the accepting and supporting GF. That probably changes the dynamic in ways that are unclear.

Fasten your seat belt and enjoy the ride.

Best wishes
MsVal

[BeckyW]

I think seeing a good gender specialist will help a lot. I asked my therapist last time about cross-dressers, and she said that cross-dressers definitely have a core female identity, and gender dysphoria that is less progressed than that of a transsexual.


Michelle, can you elaborate on this? I might be overthinking this, but how would you know if you have a core female identity or a male one?

I don't know how it feels to be anyone but me, so I don't know what my core identity really translates to.

[VickiTheGamer]

I think Confucius might be on to something here with their suggestion.

I went a head and followed through with your suggestion and found that my interest did fall. Alas, the lack of urge only seemed to last for perhaps a few hours at most. So I think your onto something with your thoughts to it being due to dopamine. So now my next step is to figure out what that next step needs to be. As for therapists, I was out of town this weekend but I will be looking into this during the week. A friend of mine that lived in LA used to have a group she went to that she paid $10 per meeting for. So I think if there is some kind of group here in my Area I will look into it. My only issue at this point is I don't have any money to spend on this and my car broke down while returning from being out of town. (Aaaand to be frank, I hate the bus).

You have ALL been super sweet and wonderful and I do look forward to reading more of your thoughts and ideas.

Vicki

[Tanya+]

And meditate.

Mindfulness meditation helps with clarity and acceptance.

There are many things that do not fit our idea of what they "should" be. It is worth cultivating the ability to be at rest with things as they are.

Big changes should only be made from a sense of certainty, not a sense of bewildered confusion.

There are many aspects to fully developing our personhood. Sometimes when one aspect is blocked we retreat into another.

May you find the Way to be your best self.