Terrible visit with gender therapist!

[Suzanne F]

So last Wednesday my wife and I had out
first session with a gender therapist. I have been seeing a therapist for over 2 years and am very comfortable with her and our work. I have shared here that I have accepted being transgendered. I dress regularly but still work as a man. I am not totally out but many people know. As I have shared here my wife and I are struggling but trying to stay together. My wife suggested that we see a gender therapist and I agreed.

I wanted to see the therapist only as Suzanne. I was there to find tools for my wife am I to support each other through this process. I didn't want to go back through determining what I was. My wife agreed that this was ok. So I found a woman close by to where we live. She in fact had transitioned many years ago. I told her that my wife and I were struggling and would like to see her. She agreed to see us and we went last Wednesday. I was hopeful that we would get some help.

It didn't go well at all. The therapist was very blunt and not very good at listening. We told her we had agreed that for he next year there would be no decisions made about further steps toward transitioning. She assumed then that I would have HRT and SRS. Decisions I haven't made yet. My wife was totally pissed when she suggested I go ahead and start low dose of hormones now. When she explained the sexual side effects of HRT my wife exploded. The therapist was surprised I was there a Suzanne. I had explained on the phone that I was already comfortable as Suzanne so I am not sure where the surprise came from. Finally the therapist said I am not sure why you two are even here.

I do appreciate that the therapist was trying to prepare my wife for what may indeed happen. However, the way she went about it in our first session seemed insane. I have agreed not to make any permanent decisions for a year in the hope that my wife catches up with me and we can move forward together. If not then I will have to decide if I have to go on by myself. It seems the therapist had already determined the outcome. If I had made that decision I would be on HRT right now.

My wife was furious when we left. Of course I felt like it was directed at me. We had met there in separate cars so we left each other after the appointment. On a positive note my phone rang about 10 minutes later. It was my wife. She told me she was mad at the situation not me. That is something I have to remind myself of during this process. I thanked her for her call.

I know he therapist may be right. It may happen that I have no choice and I will fully transition. However, I want my wife to know I have made every effort to find a solution that works for her also. For her sexual function is the line that cannot be crossed. Maybe there is no solution to this.

Thanks for listening!

Suzanne

[tgirlamc]

Hi Suzanne!!

I'm sorry to hear it was such a negative experience when the two of you were looking for something and someplace to start moving things in a positive direction. I guess that therapist is not the one but I'd say it would be worth trying again with someone else!! I hope to see you soon girlfriend!!!

Take Care,
Ashley :-D

[Eryn]

It sounds to me like this therapist is not a good fit for you. I suggest that you try another one and next time go to the first visit without your spouse.

Simply having "been there" does not always make one a good guide for others on the same path. There also has to be empathy and an understanding that everyone's path is somewhat different. It seems that this therapist is trying to be a good advocate for you, but is also pushing her own agenda.

[Kathryn Martin]

Did you see "your" therapist with her? That is not clear from your post. If you did, it is a terrible idea.

[Suzanne F]

No this was not my regular therapist!
Suzanne

[bimini1]

Several years ago I saw a therapist that had gone thru the whole transition process herself. Thing is I did not know this at the time and did not pick up on it at the session. When someone else in the community told me about her that is when I put two and two together. I said ok. I think its hard for someone who has gone that far with it to "rewind the tape" to before they themselves transitioned when counseling others. The see the whole process and everything it entails from having already gone thru it. Often times they give therapy from a foregone perspective.

Reminds me of the time about 20 years ago I first sought out counsel on this gender stuff. I contacted the IFGE by phone and spoke with someone who was on the road to transition. It scared the H-E-double L out of me. She told me don't even think about marriage. I then received literature from them that celebrated this whole thing. Which at the time for me was insanity. I wanted to get rid of TG feeling not go further into them. Needless to say I look back on that experience and it's obvious my ignorance preceded me.
But back to your therapist. She counseled from the perspective of reality, but seemed to go too fast too soon. Maybe the shock of it set your wife off. Keeping you in my thoughts, prayers.

[Badtranny]

back when I was looking for a therapist I wanted someone with experience in gender issues but NOT transgender in any way.

I didn't know if it would matter or not, but I was looking for some answers and I kinda felt like someone who was transgender might have their thumb on the scale if you know what I mean.

Just my perspective at the time.

[Wildaboutheels]

I can only guess that gender therapists are no different than doctors or lawyers. Having the certificate or diploma means absolutely nothing "quality" wise.

'The therapist was very blunt and not very good at listening." <<< NOT a very good sign. I'm not a therapist but have a very good friend who IS a shrink. Listening is job #1.

Are you absolutely sure that THIS Forum has not affected you? It was 14 months ago to the day that you said...

"When I was honest about the feeling of loss my wife went into fear that I wanted to be a woman all of the time. I don't want to be dressed all of the time but I did not want it to end the other night. Does his all sound familiar?"

Do you realize just how far you have come in just 14 months?

There is an ongoing thread wherein one of the ladies made a slew of comments about what her therapist had told her concerning #s and ratios of who is doing what... Very scary stuff [IMO] that could/would come out of any SANE real therapist and quite a few folks here concurred.

Is there some reason that you can't take your wife with you and visit YOUR therapist or is that not a possibility and/or your wife already assumes that your therapist would automatically be on "your" side?

[GabbiSophia]

Hmm it may have felt iike she was pushing her own agenda.. or she may have been pushing you... from your post it seems you know the path you want and she was there for you.. i am no expert but i believe it to be true what others have said here... do not make promises... i can speak from my own experiences .. you may think one thing but your mind may do another..

[lingerieLiz]

I've found over the years that a lot of therapist are in deep need of therapy. My wife and I went to one unrelated to CDing. We were well on our way to divorce until we were at dinner with friends and her name came up. We found out that a couple of other couples had met with her and all three of us were being told the same things. We fired her as did the others. No one ended their marriage.

I've worked in the corporate world with some psychologists and more than once found they were less than professional.

[LeaP]

back when I was looking for a therapist I wanted someone with experience in gender issues but NOT transgender in any way.

I didn't know if it would matter or not, but I was looking for some answers and I kinda felt like someone who was transgender might have their thumb on the scale if you know what I mean.


This was also my perspective and I asked the therapists whom I interviewed whether or not they were trans. I wanted both general competence in non-gender issues as well as depth in gender. I started with references from Anne Vitale (who IS trans, ironically ...) and interviewed 3. I'm back to my original therapist on as as-can basis even after having moved out of the area.



Are you absolutely sure that THIS Forum has not affected you? It was 14 months ago to the day that you said...

Good God, reading a stupid internet forum can't make someone transition or into a transsexual. A lot of us have made the same statements to spouses as did Suzanne. Here's what happens in the real world: CDs may go off into fantasy land for a time, after which reality hits hard and things come to a screaming halt. It's not fun, the damage is real, and it's not worth it because they are not women. End of story. TS get their bell rung, reality hits, and they keep going, even as the world collapses around them. Anyone who thinks this forum, of all things, has enough oomph to keep someone going through the shit storm is seriously deluded. Just to add to that, a lot of us dial back our participation here as things hit hard. Why? Because of the level of BS here.

Suzanne, based on your description of the session, that therapist was a disaster. Whether or not your wife should visit with your principal therapist, with or without you, is something you can discuss with that therapist. Mine does that frequently with married patients. (My wife has declined so far.) It is not intended to be a therapy relationship for the spouse, however. It can't be, really, as the prior relationship with you prevents that. It is partly educational and partly participatory. A good gender therapist should also be willing to meet with other medical providers and attend meetings for transition planning purposes at your workplace.

[whowhatwhen]

You can take a trans therapist either way, like any other it's how they perform and not who they are.
Mine is cis though so I can't speak to it that much.

[Barbara Ella]

You can see how important a therapist selection can be. When this started with me, in Sep 2011, I told wife I was crossdresser in Dec. She sought out a therapist, and in first session wife was told to move me out of the bedroom, get a separate apartment, and file for divorce. first session, only being told I was a cross dresser. She left immediately, therapist wanted no discussion. We are still together. I have been on HRT for 19 months. She knows i am a woman. She has set boundaries i am trying to honor. Yes, it is hard. If you keep a discussion going, and are honest with each other you will both advance together. Keep looking for a competent therapist. We still are.

Barbara

[VanTG]

Finding a therapist is extremely hard. I have sat down with 4 of them, and I am on my 5th one. When i look back at the 4 I talked too, they were not a good fit and I was not comfortable with them. The therapist I am seeing now I have been for 2 years.

Sometimes you gotta keep looking until you find somebody who is going to work with you, but also challenge you in a good way. I wish you the best of luck with you situation Suzanne F, and if you need to vent, drop me a line.

[Suzanne F]

Thanks for all the responses. I was not very clear about a few things. I have seen my therapist for over 2 years. She is wonderful and has been very supportive. My wife also saw her individually and a few times with me. She felt my therapist was already invested in me and she needed her own. I encourged her to go to her own therapist which she has. I went to see her therapist once so he would have some context to our issues. That seems to be going well. After a bad fight a couple of weeks ago my wife suggested we see a therapist together with experience with couples facing gender issues. So that is where we are now.
Suzanne

[Aprilrain]

I have to agree with the therapist on this one, I have no idea what it is you hoped to accomplish by seeing this therapist.

You say you and your wife are struggling to stay together, my question is why?? Life is short, enjoy it while you can!

You say you want tools for your wife and you to support each other through this process. What process?

You say you've agreed not to take further steps so your wife can catch up. Catch up to what?

Are you a woman or are you not? Do you need to transition or do you not? Is your wife a lesbian or is she not?

If your answers are yes, yes and no then stop torturing the poor woman and get on with your life!

[kimdl93]

The therapist shouldn't have been so doctrinaire. It would have been far more constructive for her to have been there to help you guys find a way forward, rather than making pronouncements. I still think counseling can help, but you'll need to find a therapist who is there to support and enhance communication.

[GabbiSophia]

Did the session. Cause you two to talk more? Did it cause you to evaluate your life and situation more? Did it bring up hard questions. My therapist challenged me for a few weeks and I cussed her a bunch but in the end it was what I needed.. exactly what I needed. .. from there it is up to me or you to do with the info you take out of it.

[MsVal]

Wow! Deja-vu. This reminds me of my first ever therapist visit. Inside of an hour she had me pegged as a TS that she would recommend for HRT. She scared me to death. It was awful.

Best wishes
MsVal

[kittypw GG]

I know he therapist may be right. It may happen that I have no choice and I will fully transition. However, I want my wife to know I have made every effort to find a solution that works for her also. For her sexual function is the line that cannot be crossed. Maybe there is no solution to this.

Thanks for listening!

Suzanne

Personally I don't think a year will make any difference. You went to the session as Suzanne, you only present male when at work? Hmmm I think the only solution may be just to end amicably.

[mikiSJ]

Suzanne, I agree with Misty about having a therapist who has already transitioned. I can really understand how B. can feel overwhelmed and it has to be your (meaning marriage) that should drive this conversation, not the therapist.

When D. and I first started seeing our MFT, I felt during the first meeting that the therapist was too Miki-sided and I pointed that out. She has now moved towards a more balanced approach, and we actually made some good headway earlier this month.

It appears neither of you have the trust in this individual and I suggest you may want to put the combined sessions on hold and look for someone else. I'll reach out down here and see if I can get a North Bay recommendation for you.


Personally I don't think a year will make any difference. You went to the session as Suzanne, you only present male when at work? Hmmm I think the only solution may be just to end amicably.
Maybe, but let's give Suzanne and B. some support while they try to work things out, and not jump to quick and 'easy' solutions.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

What you actually set up ( you say it yourself in the OP) was a 2 on 1 meeting for you and your therapist to get your wife to move towards "your side"...whatever that is...

Your therapist did her part(a bit too hard core apparently)
but you are not in a place yet to do yours (not saying you are wrong or right in this)

Based on your stated goals in the OP, the therapist is right to say don't bother coming back.
Based on your stated goals in the OP, your wife should be furious.

TS is a no BS world. That's a constructive lesson for you. This therapist knows this...April in her comment knows this.. older ts transitioners ALL know this... it sucks...
Words don't cut it.

This is all on you...therapy is not about you setting up a double team to convince your wife how hard your life is and how you are doing everything possible...it may be true that you are, but who other than you can take comfort in this?
This session was really all about you..about your own self pity (something I know a lot about and something I had to learn to eat without dumping it all on others)

...your wife sounds wonderful and is trying but I bet very confused...
Your wife can't possibly know how she feels about you living as a woman until you do it...sorry but that's the way it is...nothing you or she says now can prepare either of you for this reality...
I would guess that she is desperately hoping you don't go any further...

While you are hoping for her to "catch up" (to what?), and I bet she is hoping for you to give up... saying you will slow down just gives her hope...is it false hope? do you even know??
and if she does catch up, and then you say "im transitioning" , trust me she will not feel caught up anymore.

April is exactly right...are you a woman? If so you have to get a grip and stop torturing your wife

This all may seem cold but you need to hear it. This is a stark destructive thing. This is owning your identity after living a lifetime disowning it.

Our SO's tied their lives to our identities. We cannot use communication strategies to get around how much pain we cause...
What we can do is stand tall and be ourselves...treat your SO with compassion and honesty(i'm sure you do)....we eat our own pain and take responsibility for what we did and and give our loved ones the freedom to live their own best quality of life
...to mourn what they lose and then decide how to handle it for themselves.. and then we need to thrive so they can see that we did what was necessary...that we did what was best and hopefully they get comfort from that and even embrace us
The pity party is for you and your therapist (or maybe an internet forum or two)

Your wife does not deserve your confusion and suffering.
She deserves to know what you are doing.
If you are ever going to transition, its best for her to do it now or at least know now that this is your plan... every day she doesn't know is another day of not being able to live her own life..

++++++

If you have a good gender therapist stick with it... use her to take personal responsibility and ownership of your identity (this is brutally hard, and that's why so many of us desperately need a therapist to guide us)
and find a therapist for your wife... just for her..let her explore her feelings without the pressure of you and another sympathetic ts or ts friendly therapist..

[becky77]

I don't wish to be too harsh, but sometimes you need to make a cold hard choice.
I love my wife (more as a friend) but it broke my heart telling her it was over. I couldn't give her false hope, I was going to transition and I had to be definite in my approach. As Kaitlyn and April said you need to know yourself before embarking on this, sometimes things are too serious for delusions and hopes, what are you? If you don't know why put your wife into that place of uncertainty, its cruel and selfish.
To transition for me was risking everything, because I had to.
As it is, myself and my ex live together and get on great, but its from a platform of open honesty, we had the tears and the future is uncertain, but we know where we stand. I had to crush her hopes that there was any chance for us as husband and wife, it was immensely painful but necessary.
Your OP reads that your unhappy with the therapist because she didn't pander to your relationship?
Are you after a gender therapist or a marriage councillor?
Sorry I sound strong on this, but I love my ex enough to never put her in that position.

[kittypw GG]

Your wife does not deserve your confusion and suffering.
She deserves to know what you are doing.
If you are ever going to transition, its best for her to do it now or at least know now that this is your plan... every day she doesn't know is another day of not being able to live her own life..

++++++

..

I agree with everything Kaitlyn said, especially the statement I quoted. Look you are just stalling and yes you are confusing your wife. I'll bet she prays everyday that you give up on the idea of transitioning. I went to an appointment similar with my husband. The therapist said to me that "D doesn't want his penis" with a smile on her flipping face. She was lucky I was not a violent person or I would have planted my fist right between her eyeballs. That would have wiped that damn smile off her face. My husband denied the truth up and down and even got that therapist to apologize to me for saying what she said. We went another torturous 3-4 years in our marriage until the truth was blurted out to me after his stay at partial hospitalization at the behavioral health hospital. I can't even convey how angry I was. My suffering could have ended much earlier. My husband was selfish and I hated him for that.......still do. Just a little word of advise.....love her enough to set her free.

[Starling]

Hard words to read, hard truths to absorb. No one gets off easy. Most people are decent and well-intentioned, and believe that if they just toddle along, not stepping on anyone's toes, life will reward them with a sense that they're a good person. Maybe this doesn't really work for anyone, but it certainly doesn't go for transpeople, because our self-contradictory essence creates clumsy footwork; and the harder we love someone, the worse we hurt them when dissonance cracks us wide open.

But every relationship is different, and the apportionment of courage is not equal, nor is our ration of self-knowledge. And sometimes our mates are not exemplary, either. Sometimes they are emotionally dishonest, manipulative and exploitative. Sometimes they take advantage of our shame and guilt to get what they need. So it can be hard to know who bears the most blame: the one who needs to turn her life upside-down but wants to preserve the marriage, or the one whose own co-dependence has, for instance, made her reject exit doors that have been opened over the years.

I'm just saying this to offset the perception that every bad feeling is our fault, all the time.

:) Lallie

[KellyJameson]

If you meet with enough therapists you begin to realize how human and imperfect they are and how much their own personal history influences them.

It is startling how different the views will be between a therapist who has transitioned versus someone who is a cisgendered female or cisgendered male and this is only the beginning.

Factor in their religious views and background or nationality and you begin to see even more divergent view points. Even their age as the stages of life they have lived through seems to have an effect.

I personally don't think it is possible for a therapist to not be biased to some degree by their history as "Their story".

Plus it seems therapists are often attracted to their career choices out of their own inner turmoil.

Over the years I have met some really nutty psychiatrists and psychologists leaving me wondering who exactly is the patient.

I have not lost respect for the professions but I certainly realize how fallible they are, regardless of their education and certifications

I cannot imagine the difficulty of transtioning or confronting gender questions and identity while being marrried because there is a strong likelihood you will be at cross purposes with your partner as the pursuit of individual interests.

My own story makes it difficult to understand how someone would not transition who had "experienced" what I have.

I suspect this is also true for your therapists who will probably have a very black and white view of transitioning where there is an inevitability to transitioning "IF" you are transsexual.

It is easy to fall into that "either you are this or that" way of thinking and become impatient with people who are viewed as fence sitters while forgetting how long they fence sat.

The future has many unknowns for you right now, making it impossible to make promises to your wife about what the future will bring along with the likelihood that you will break past promises.

It must be terrible to hurt someone you love for things you yourself still do not understand but that is the nature of gender dysphoria.

Ultimately it is about the pain of living untruly and when we do, there is little of value that we can offer anyone we share our lives with, so what she fears losing was to a certain degree an illusion

She may find that she was holding onto something that never existed except in her mind.

Try to protect her to the best of your abilities while showing her this truth.

Protect her self esteem and security while not betraying your genuine self.

[Suzanne F]

Well this has lead to a wonderful discussion with my wife. I shared the sentiments from many here who think I am needlessly prolonging this. Even though we will not be going back to that therapist the session has helped us in facing this issue. My wife does realize we are facing a medical issue. She says it has helped that we have agreed not to make decision to transition for at least a year. I do know I will have to change my life. I just don't know exactly how yet. I don't think I am wrong for taking things slowly and trying to give my wife time to adjust. I am also not ready to come out at work. My career has been going very well over the last few years. Funny once I started being honest my sales have taken off!
Me and my family are going to need the added income. I appreciate everyone's comments. I invited the criticism and welcome the opinions.
Suzanne

[stefan37]

At a minimum, you should consider facial hair removal. It takes forever.

[Starling]

...Ultimately it is about the pain of living untruly and when we do, there is little of value that we can offer anyone we share our lives with...

Again, everyone's circumstances are different, and I think there's a lot we can offer a mate, albeit it at great cost to ourselves. Which is not to say that, had I known decades ago what I know now, I would have gotten married anyway. I almost certainly wouldn't have; but I think, everything considered, my wife is glad we did. And I know I'm not alone in this.

:) Lallie

[Aprilrain]

Suzanne I'm glad something productive came out of it.

[ReineD]

She says it has helped that we have agreed not to make decision to transition for at least a year. I do know I will have to change my life.

Kaitlyn brought up a great point, which is that your wife deserves to know what you are doing and thinking.

So your two statements above seem to be at odds. Your wife thinks that you are NOT making any decisions for at least a year. This means that she is hoping (I believe) that you will go out enough and incorporate your feminine expression enough into your daily or weekly routines to get all the mystery and newness out of it. Your thread history this past year is full of exciting firsts. You go out to the Castro a lot with TG friends, so maybe you can also start going regularly to the bank, the bookstore, the grocery store, and doing other errands out while dressed? Maybe do some of these things in the middle of the week?

You, on the other hand, indicate above that you already KNOW that your life will change. I don't know what this means, but it sounds as if you have made some sort of decision ... unless you are merely speaking of incorporating your feminine expression more in your day-to-day life?

And now for some hard questions:

I also agree with another of Kaitlyn's points. Your wife might think she would be OK with you living publicly as a woman as long as you don't mess with your male sexual functioning (as mentioned in your first post), but she may change her mind once you actually start doing it and there are some negative reactions from key people. Many of the TSs have said that they did have some good first experiences with the people they told, only to have it cool off when it was apparent that transition was in the works. I do think that many people initially are polite, thinking that the novelty will eventually wear off. Also would your work life become difficult to the point that you would want to find a job elsewhere (I think that Misty has some experience with this)? And if so, is your job in an area that is forgiving in terms of gender presentation? Are you beginning to put things in place to come out at work?

If you do eventually decide to do so, would YOU be OK living publicly as a woman but retaining a male body and male sexual functioning as indicated in your first post? Do YOU want to continue to be sexually active with your wife? (Surely it's not just her choice?) Also what if you continue to be read as a male, which according to recent posts in this section from transitioners, is rather the norm? Do you have the $$ resources for possibly substantial FFS and of course full electrolysis? Would the knowledge that you are read as a male dampen your desires and affect your levels of satisfaction and happiness?

Middle ground is difficult. I think it is fertile ground for both spouses to be unhappy if they want different things. I think this is what the therapist was getting at.


Here's what happens in the real world: CDs may go off into fantasy land for a time, after which reality hits hard and things come to a screaming halt. It's not fun, the damage is real, and it's not worth it because they are not women. End of story. TS get their bell rung, reality hits, and they keep going, even as the world collapses around them.

Except, sometimes it can go so far as to burn bridges if one does not end up transitioning, even if they think they will when they divorce. And then what, after the family is lost? I'm not wanting to define a line between CDs and TSs or even TGs at the moment, since everyone has different definitions of what they mean and whom these labels fit. People even have different definitions as to what living as a woman means.

The point, Suzanne, is that you said you have not yet decided how exactly you want to live your future life and how much if at all you want to change your body. So I'm assuming that at this point your bell hasn't rung.

I do not believe you will know how far you will want to take this until you take a lot more time living the humdrum, day-to-day life as Suzanne on a regular and non-exciting basis, maybe even dressed in jeans and a plain top. As mentioned, your thread history is full of exciting firsts and I don't think this is a good basis upon which to make decisions, if this is what you meant by knowing that your life will change, as you said in the above quote?

Sorry for the length of this post. It did honestly start out with an observation that your wife thinks you are proceeding a certain way, while it appears that you have something different in mind?

You did ask for different outlooks. :)


... She was lucky I was not a violent person or I would have planted my fist right between her eyeballs. That would have wiped that damn smile off her face.

Sorry to capitalize on your pain Kitty, but I love this. Who ever said that women were supposed to be stereotypically feminine. I would have felt the same way.

[Suzanne F]

Reine
I am not sure where to start. I think I have been honest about where I am and where I am going. You are right I have not been able to evaluate living full time as a woman. That is because I have honored my wife's wishes and not came out to everyone including my 11 year old son. I was able to live as Suzanne for about 9 days while visiting my daughters in Ky. As far as jeans and a top I wear them quite often. My wife and I have agreed to tell my son in about 10 days. After that when my wife is ready I will be living more as Suzanne. If it was just me these things would have already happened. However I want to work with my wife. It's funny I find myself defending slowing down. I also don't think judgments should be made based on just my posts on this forum. Obviously I have not posted the more mundane aspects of my journey. I don't know about whether the middle of the road approach will work. We may try that next year if it makes sense. I am tired and feeling defensive. I am going to stop here. I am going to sleep well tonight knowing I have tried my best to be a loving parent and caring spouse while being the real me.
Suzanne

[LeaP]

Maybe it's just me, but I think Suzanne's approach is reasonable. Delay of transition steps for a year to allow her wife to "catch up" (i.e., come to terms) when they are both "struggling to stay together"? Absolutely. People in commited relationships don't take unilateral steps to divorce, set the other free, end their suffering, or pick your euphemism. While most marriages seem to end, some do not. Seeing a therapist to help over this period is also reasonable, even if this one was out to lunch in supporting the intent. Suzanne and her wife may indeed have different outlooks and expectations. It's highly likely, in fact. The stated intent in going was to help get them on the same page - whatever the result. Whether or not the therapist was right from some perspective is immaterial. A therapist should never impose a viewpoint.

[MatildaJ.]

Every relationship is different, and the apportionment of courage is not equal, nor is our ration of self-knowledge...It can be hard to know who bears the most blame

Life is pain. But it makes more sense to blame Fate for the pain than to blame one's beloved, who in most cases is doing the best they can.


What she fears losing was to a certain degree an illusion. She may find that she was holding onto something that never existed except in her mind. Try to protect her to the best of your abilities while showing her this truth.

My own perspective is that there's no benefit to telling someone "We never had a real marriage; I was never the person you thought I was; our relationship was a lie." Why rip their past to shreds? If you have children, there's no benefit to saying: "I was never your father; the parenting relationship you felt we had was a lie."

Instead, I would recommend focusing on the new developments: "I thought I could manage this without bothering anyone; it turns out I can't. I now know that I will need to transition. I'm sorry it has come to this. I would love whatever support you feel able to provide along the way."


My wife does realize we are facing a medical issue. She says it has helped that we have agreed not to make decision to transition for at least a year...I don't think I am wrong for taking things slowly and trying to give my wife time to adjust. I am also not ready to come out at work. My career has been going very well over the last few years. Funny once I started being honest my sales have taken off! Me and my family are going to need the added income.

I think you are both doing the best you can, Suzanne. Seeing it as a medical issue makes sense to me. Delaying treatment may or may not make sense; as the patient, you'll have to figure that out, balancing your wants and your needs, in consultation with your own trusted therapist (not the one you went to with your wife). I know as a wife, I do appreciate my husband taking things slowly and giving me time to adjust to changes. I'd rather deal with a slowly progressing disease that takes away my husband than with a sudden blow. But that said, if things move more quickly inside you, ramping up the gender dysphoria, then the transition may have to be quicker than she prefers. Your mental health has to be your priority.

Good luck!

[ReineD]

I also don't think judgments should be made based on just my posts on this forum.

I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that I am judging you. I was trying to look at different aspects of your situation.

I agree with Lea above, I do think that your actions are reasonable. But mostly I was concerned that your wife thinks one thing, while you may be thinking quite another and I think this is a recipe for future heartache, both for you and your wife.

Again, sorry if my post came off as being judgmental.

[mikiSJ]

Given Suzanne's circumstances, I think she is doing very well integrating Suzanne into her life. Once she tells her son, and is received favorably, then I believe the next step to being full-time is to come out at work.

We have discussed this several times and given the attitudes at her employer and her job, she is very much at risk in disclosing Suzanne.

Hang in there girl.

[Annaliese]

Suzanne, you are going to have many up and downs over the next year, I admire you for working so hard to help your wife find a way to understand, and to save your marriage. hugs

[Starling]

Life is pain. But it makes more sense to blame Fate for the pain than to blame one's beloved, who in most cases is doing the best they can...

I can understand why you feel this way, as a wife who is coping with a big change. But I wasn't talking about most cases; in most cases, people are mentally and physically healthy adults. As for Fate, unfortunately it never says it's sorry.


My own perspective is that there's no benefit to telling someone "We never had a real marriage; I was never the person you thought I was; our relationship was a lie." Why rip their past to shreds? If you have children, there's no benefit to saying: "I was never your father; the parenting relationship you felt we had was a lie."

I certainly agree with this! Moreover, I don't even think those "confessions" are necessarily true. If you act out of love, there is truth in your relationships.


Instead, I would recommend focusing on the new developments: "I thought I could manage this without bothering anyone; it turns out I can't. I now know that I will need to transition. I'm sorry it has come to this. I would love whatever support you feel able to provide along the way."...

It's great when two people can sit down and talk like this, but what happens if the wife begins to scream at the end of the first sentence, and slams out the door?

[Rianna Humble]

I also don't think judgments should be made based on just my posts on this forum.

This is an easy thing to say, but upon what evidence do you suggest that we judge in order to respond to you since we are not to limit ourselves to what you wish us to know?

[bimini1]

My therapist told me a few months ago transition is your absolute last option. Don't do it unless you a really really really 100% sure you cannot possibly live without doing it. You think you've got it hard now, just wait. And those words resonate with me every time I think it might be for me.

[MatildaJ.]

What happens if the wife begins to scream at the end of the first sentence, and slams out the door?

Then send the wife an email or a physical letter with the relevant information. If the wife cuts off all contact and refuses to calm down and have a civil, adult conversation, then the time has come to communicate through attorneys. A marriage can't continue if one person refuses to communicate with the other.

[Tina_gm]

Suzanne, what I am about to say may probably sound harsh, but it is not the intent for it to be. It is just how I am seeing things.

While what you are doing, by waiting a year before making a final decision to make Suzanne be permanent may sound noble, it really isn't. You appear on here at least to think or feel that transitioning for you is a step you are more than willing to take. Your progress toward it, however you are doing it is slowed due to others, mainly your wife. Allowing her to catch up, or adjust.

I remember your posts from a little while ago, and at one point you stated you had left the house, your wife was having difficulties with it all. It was too much for her. Then again during the TG therapist, who talked about HRT and its affects and sexual side effects. Your wife had yet more major difficulties with this. That tells me a lot with these things.

If you were just a CDer you would have it made with a wife that has been as accepting as she is. She has already accepted far more of integrating Suzanne than most ever can, no matter how much they may even desire to. Most simply cannot go as far as your wife has. She does have limits, and while you are hoping that with time and patience, you can lead her through transition, I don't think it will ultimately go well. It will likely end your marriage as is should you make the final leap.

Here is how I see it when it comes to your wife. She fell in love with you, as the person whom she thought she knew. Maybe she already knew or suspected or accepted certain dressing/feminine aspects of you, but, you were still a man, which became her husband and the father of children, I believe you have a son with her? But, at least you are a father. And she fell in love with you in large part because of how she admires you as the father you are, or perhaps were.

I believe that she is hoping that in this year of non decision, and she is willing to compromise a whole lot.... that in the end there will be something left that she can hold onto that will still be the man she fell in love with. Just something, anything that she can have that is still him.

I think that as time goes on, the more you progress toward transition, and then if you ultimately do, it will be like a slow death for her, as she loses the man she fell in love with. For all of us who have lost loved ones to a slow agonizing incurable disease resulting in death, it is such a horrible agonizing process. We hope and pray that somehow this damn disease will not take them, that somehow even greatly incapacitated, they will still be with us. But as time draws near, we begin to feel guilt for wishing them to still be with us suffering as they are, yet guilty too for wishing the suffering to end. I am willing to bet your wife feels like this at times.

During this year of non decision, she is praying for a miracle that you will decide you will still be the man she fell in love with, somewhere, somehow, just something left that she can hold on to. If you know in your heart that you can no longer be the man she fell in love with, as Kittypaw said, if you really love her enough, you should let her go. End her suffering.

[kittypw GG]

Please listen to gendermutt's words. I begged my husband to set me free but he chose to keep me on the string with his denials. She WILL end up hating you if she thinks you will give up this transition stuff in that year of non decision. Right now she thinks she has a fighting chance. If you don't set her free then brace yourself for the anger.
Well by that time you might actually deserve it.

[kimdl93]

Please do not presume that your situation is representative of or a predictor of how Suzanne's or anyone else's situations may progress. There may be odds or probabilities leaning one way or another, but it's wrong, terribly wrong to thing that your experience is predictive of others. Each couple has their own dynamics.

[Tina_gm]

Kim, I am perhaps blunt in my assessment, but that is due to how Suzanne's wife has reacted, along with some of the posts Suzanne has made. Kittypaw I believe recognizes similar reactions of Suzanne's wife. I also see from my early days after my reveal to my wife, some of her reactions, her concerns and fears. I remember a couple of times where she thought maybe she should leave... so that I could be free to be however I needed to be. Those were the early days, just after the reveal, but it reveals to me how women can think and feel, when they react in similar ways. My wife has basically said that as we are now she can live with, and we can continue to live and grow as a couple. But.... if my gender issues are to become such where I am basically all fem and no longer any masculine, that is where she will end it. For her, any permanent changes, HRT, that is what she cannot ever contemplate. Based on Suzanne's wifes reactions, that seems to be her sticking point. After a 9 day stretch of CDing, they ended up in a situation where Suzanne left the house, stating that his wife could not handle it all. Talk of HRT, again, that is when his wife had a major issue.

I feel very sad for Suzanne's wife. She has made so many concessions and compromises, hoping that it will be enough, and that he will be happy yet still remain as her husband when all is said and done. Now.... who knows, maybe she will accept transition, but based on her reactions, I don't see it happening.

Suzanne, when you read my posts here, it is not a condemnation of you about your goals of progress. I do think though that any of us regardless of where we are on the spectrum we need to be honest with your partners about where we are and what we intend to do or intend to go with our gender issues. It is fair to do. It is the right thing to do. You are holding off in hopes she will accept further progress and likely transition. I understand it is one thing to go slow to give our partners time, but when it comes to the ultimate path of transitioning, another thing altogether when you are not completely honest about your goals or wishes. Ask yourself, if your wife says to you that she will stay with you no matter how far you take it, what would you be doing?

[LeaP]

I begged my husband to set me free but he chose to keep me on the string with his denials. ...

You could have left anytime on your own.

[Suzanne F]

I thought this was done. I asked my wife if I do transition later if she would rather have ended it now. She says no. She said she just doesn't know what it will be like and would rather keep trying for now. That is the way I feel. I understand the sentiment expressed here that I should leave now and transition. I am not ready yet. I need time to get things in place and I want to make sure I am doing the right thing. I am being honest with my wife. I will understand if she decides she cannot stay in the marriage. I have made sure she knows she has the space to make that decision. That may very well come to pass. I hope you are all here for me if that does turn out to be true.
Suzanne

[donnalee]

The inability of medical "professionals" to listen fully and carefully to a patient before commenting or asking questions is a particularly irritating trait and one that I personally will not tolerate. I take particular care to organize my thoughts before an appointment and cannot convey them successffully if I'm constantly being interrupted. In a medical situation this is potentially life-threatening. I am not above correcting this behavior by whatever means I think appropriate to the situation and will walk if my wishes are not carried out.
If a therapist behaved this way I would tell them "this can't work", explain why (but only if asked; prolonging your goodbye isn't a good idea). Then leave as quickly as possible (with your wife, of course).

[kittypw GG]

You could have left anytime on your own.

Yes, and I could say you could have stayed a man. You and I both know it's more complicated than that. How is this helpful to the op and his wife?

[PaulaQ]

@kittypw GG - it can take a while to figure out whether or not we really need to transition. There's a lot of downside to transition, and most of us really don't want to start our lives over again, as I'm doing. That said, I told my wife pretty early on (within a couple of months of coming out) that I didn't think I'd find some path that avoided full transition. There is a LOT of pressure on us not to transition. It really can feel like being stuck between a rock and a hard place. Of course this is a nightmare for the spouse - as you can well attest.

It would be great if we didn't have to self diagnose this - if the medical profession could test us and go "oh yeah, your transsexual and you are in real trouble if you don't transition." I'm not trying to make excuses, but it really is a lot to expect of a person to have to read information on the internet and figure out what course of medical treatment they need quickly, just because the medical profession is too prejudiced and gutless to do their freaking jobs.

[Suzanne F]

Yes, and I could say you could have stayed a man. You and I both know it's more complicated than that. How is this helpful to the op and his wife?
Funny I did not like it when I read "his wife." Maybe that is a sign!
Suzanne