sex drive - good thing or bad thing?

[Anne2345]

Occasionally a member will post here about the topic-du-jour and reference or write about their respective sex drive as if it's a bad thing. Usually it's within the context of HRT having diminished or killed said sex drive. Oddly, at least to me it's odd, these members seem somehow pleased or happy that they no longer have a sex drive, that their sex drive has been greatly diminished, or that they hope that it will be diminished or killed in the future.

The implication of this individual take on one's sex drive seems to me to be to suggest that one's sex drive is somehow a bad thing. Or at least that the particular member believes that their own specific sex drive is a bad thing.

All of which, if I have correctly read and interpreted these posts over the years, I just don't understand or get.

To me, fwiw, I see nothing wrong with a good, healthy sex drive, and I know from experience that there is absolutely nothing wrong with good, healthy sex. ;-)

But to be fair, I suppose, although I have always enjoyed sex and the act of orgasm, I have never been driven by it as some appear to be. And clearly, many powerful, public figures have gone down time and time again because they could not keep their own sex drive under control. This, however, does not make a sex drive evil or bad in and of itself, though.

Even more, a good, healthy sex drive is not gender specific. Otherwise, we as a race would have failed and gone extinct long ago.

As far as I can tell, although (based upon my own experience on HRT) sex drive certainly changes throughout the course of HRT, the extinguishment or diminishment of one's sex drive is not a goal or intended consequence of HRT or transition.

So what's the deal with sex drive, and why do some here have a problem with it?

Just curious is all . . . .

[WhisperTV]

I'm curious about this to. I can certainly understand there being times when the urge for sex is inconvienent. During those times I just get it out of the way and get on with what I really want to do.

But that's not at all the same as wanting no sex drive. That part I don't get.

[PaulaQ]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, the issue was twofold:
1. I never liked using my penis to have sex. This just never really felt "right" to me.
2. I have terrible dysphoria at this point associated with my genitalia - having an erection is a disgusting feeling. I'm well glad to be rid of them.
My sex drive is still alive and well - although it went into hiding for months - even before I started HRT. I'm more sexually active now than I was when living as a man. I'm a much more sexual person - I think mostly because I feel free to be myself, and not trying to have sex while putting on an act.

[AllieSF]

I think that Paula said it very well. It is not so much the sex drive and enjoyment associated with satisfying that drive. The stated negativity is probably more associated with the physical aspects of it using the specific tool (penis) and what it represents (maleness) to the transitioner who is a woman inside. For a FtM it may be the same thing because that tool which they do not have is a very clear and physical indication of their true gender.

[becky77]

Maybe it's more like the sex drive has changed as apposed to diminished. For me its a good thing as I am not plagued by any base needs. I have a healthy sex drive for the right person, but it has no power over me.
Or as April said in another thread "I now don't HAVE to act on it anymore."
Personally it's a good thing, I find casual sex (with a relative stranger) degrading, it has to have meaning for me. It hasn't in anyway taken away my desires or wants but now I am patient to wait for when its right for me, to wait for the right person to come along or not at all. And yes, that the unfortunate extra I still have to tolerate is now dormant im delighted with.

[kimdl93]

Here's a sociological take on it. In many societies there are ideologies that seek to control the behavior of adherents and classify the behavior of others as aberrant, particularly sexuality. It's about power more than sex. In western culture, we have a centuries long tradition of treating sex as taboo, and out of the context of reproduction, as somehow sinful. Not surprisingly, this attitude towards sexual pleasure can be ingrained in our individual mind sets as well. More than a few members of this site, as you have observed, seem to regret or repress their sexuality as much as they do their gender.

Maybe there are other points of view. Maybe 'male' sexuality, with all it's connotations, seems foreign or distasteful to a TS person.

I truly enjoy sexual expression. As the years have gone by, I find myself enjoying intimacy as a woman, as I imagine it at least, with far more pleasure taken from touching each other, and less from the more invasive approach.

[becky77]

Hi Kim

I'm not sure on your point?
Honestly I have no issues with my sexuality, I have been with a woman, been with a TS and been with a Man. I now know I like men sexually (albeit my experience is somewhat lacking) and when i'm in the moment im passionate and really let go and embrace it. I have absolutely no problems in that area and I know what I like. However not just with anyone and not because I need to have any kind of release. It's just now I have no wish to settle, I can happily go without for as long as it takes, but if the right guy does come along trust me, he won't have any complaints.

[Starling]

I think we're talking about suppressing the male libido, complete with its siren and flashing red lights; thereby actually enhancing our eventual sexual pleasure, regardless of preference. I also think an unconscious longing to suppress it can contribute to erectile dysfunction, in MTF folks whose bell has yet to ring.

:) Lallie

[kimdl93]

My comments didn't have anything to do with your experience, Becky. It was more about social constructs that impact on individual attitudes. If one has been indoctrinated to believe that sex is bad, excluding missionary style in the context of reproduction, then bidding farewell to sexuality may be something of a relief. As Forrest Gump says, "one less thing"

[Lilo]

A hypothesis... Some posts only claim and proclaim this as certain 'proof' that the hormones are doing their stuff. Its the same as posting test results. I think success ought to be meassured by our capacity to re-structure our lives without huge negative effects. This, in my case, includes these basic human needs.

[Angela Campbell]

For me it is more like being more in control of the drive rather than being controlled by it. The experience under testosterone is quite different than the experience of an estrogen chemistry.

[KellyJameson]

I do think sex can complicate the discovery of ones actual gender identity.

It can create a tension between two conflicting needs of expression so they "act on each other" for better or worse.

I was not born with a gender or sexual identity. I had to learn both by doing sex and doing gender.

At first I thought my gender identity and sexuality were mutually exclusive because the body I inhabited was designed to do one but not the other.

I struggled with both my gender and sexual identity and this is because both were affected by my physical brain and at a cellular level how I reacted to hormones.

We learn our gender and sexual identity by doing gender and sex.

At first I thought the tension between my gender identity and sexual identity was caused by inhabiting a body that could do one but not the other so was "caused by this body" but I was wrong.

We are designed to learn the gender and sexual identity we live and when we do not learn it we experience tension and dissonance internally.

This design meant that I could not be sexual with the anatomy I had and when I tried I experienced psychological "unease" and "dissonance" because it felt "unnatural" as the physical movement and action.

The whole of relating to women and men felt unnatural along similar lines. It became clear to be that I was inside something that was preventing my natural expression on every level.

The energy to use "that body" for sex was the opposite of the energy I carried inside me and I kept trying to subconsciously do "role reversal" as the expression of this energy which is why I struggled with my sexual identity, thinking I must be "homosexual" and maybe I would have been if I had not adopted a female identity as was natural to who I am.

This is why I strongly feel we are physically created and being transsexual is not solely a psychological experience.

I can see now how my sexuality and gender actually were moving as one single expression but neither could be experienced with the anatomy I had inherited.

There was a profound disconnect between my body and brain that environment and psychology could not and cannot explain.

I always experienced frustration with both gender and sexual roles because I could not fit into either because both were unnatural to my "energy" which is the expression of me at a cellular level as both hormones and structure.

I never had hate for my body but simply a learned " dis-ease" from living inside it and out into the world.

I could not be tethered to my sexuality or the gender identity that was pushed on me "because of my body".

I'm exactly opposite to and of both with the result that I was "cast adrift" from both.

I think some people feel they must reject their sexuality because if you can be sexual than you are not transsexual because how can you use a body that does not represent you or their sexuality may keep them from their gender identity from the desire not to lose their sexuality.

This is why it is important to resist self loathing of ones body but the simple acceptance that you and your body are not aligned as to your "energy"

This misalignment has different severities and also people have different coping mechanisms and some are more resilient than others in adapting.

Each person must find what works for them and why there is no single expression of transsexuality.

Many transsexuals are perfectly fine with a penis but when you treat gender as that which lives in the mind and brain than this does not make them any less female.

In my opinion it is a mistake to use sex or the genitalia as the definition of male or female but that is usually how men and women are defined.

[LeaP]

My sex drive on T was like being driven by heroin. An unrelenting insanity.

[PaulaQ]

@kimdl93 - I think you are talking about self acceptance of our sexuality, as opposed to relief that our male sex drives are gone, changed by estrogen. I am happy with the sex drive I have now. It's expression as my sexuality, I'm less thrilled with. If I had my druthers, I'd like to be a nice little straight girl. In reality, the best label for me is "queer." As a man, I had a pretty straightforward sex life. Now? Well, like they say - it's complicated. I still haven't reached a point where I'm totally ok with who I am sexually. I don't deny who I am - what's the point, but let's just say if you are looking for a nice, normal seeming poster girl for trans*, well, I'm not your girl. I don't love that yet.

However, my dick doesn't work, so I feel heaps better! (Waiting on SRS so I can hopefully end the horrible, horrible nightmares I have about my junk.)

[kimdl93]

Yes, Paula, that comes pretty close to it.

[arbon]

I am so glad not to have a male sex drive, it was such a huge relief when it was gone. But I still have a sex drive --- its just very different than before, and better I think. There is a lot more feeling inside me, if that makes sense.

[DeeDee1974]

A sex drive is not a bad thing. I'm glad I still have one and I'm glad it's different than before hrt. Before my transition it almost could be that overwhelming, I need to do something about this now feeling. It was almost like sex came first.

Prior to hrt I would have considered myself a closet bisexual who only dated women.

Now I still reserve the right to date a woman, but have only been with men. And that desire to be intimate with a man comes only after a good conversation, a romantic walk holding hands, kissing, touching and then will I go all the way.

[Alexis.j]

Angela put it quite well for me.
For me, a reduction in sexdrive is welcomed, but total elimination not so much. I know we cannot choose exactly at what level it affects us, but that comes with the territory.
The ideal for me would be, that it works when and if it needs to, but does not control me otherwise.

[Kathryn Martin]

Some context, and excerpt from the essay: "It doesn't have to be this way: The Infuriating Reality of Womanhood", by Sacha Alexander, that may very well appear non-sequitur but is it really:


In order to function as a woman in the world, you have to walk around pretending you're not that vulnerable. As individuals we believe that we're stronger. I remember, at 24-years-old, play-fighting with my boyfriend in his bed. "Bet you can't pin me" I teased. I did spin-class. I did yoga. I believed it. So we tussled. We rolled around, and pushed and hit. And he pinned me. Easily. So we tussled harder. Then we tussled again. And again and again. Because he could always pin me. All skinny, pale, 6 feet of him could pin me. Every time. Even when I fought past the point of flirtation. Even when I started to get pissed. To really try. He could pin me. He could always ****ing pin me. And it all came home to me, right then, that I couldn't get away. If anyone wanted to do anything to me. I couldn't claw, fight, scratch my way out of it. Not even me, who felt so strong. Who did so much research. It doesn't matter how capable you are if someone decides to take something from you. And we're living in a world where that happens all the time. Where subconsciously, we must be validating this behavior, or it wouldn't continue on such a profound level.

Kim barely hinted at this....

[becky77]

So its a lack of male sex drive, rather than just sex drive.
Is it fair to say we are relieved to have the masculine need taken away, rather than any issues with wanting sex? (Removing the separate subject of use of genitalia).

[Starling]

"Lack of a male sex drive." Becky, that's it in a nutshell.

Kathryn, I don't know if I agree with this part of Sacha Alexander's statement: "Where subconsciously, we must be validating this behavior, or it wouldn't continue on such a profound level." After all, "this behavior" doesn't require validation; it's built into male chemistry.

:) Lallie

[LeaP]

t's built into male chemistry.

So is killing. Yet the majority of the population has evolved a deep revulsion to it, except in the most extreme circumstances.

Male violence is celebrated. Everywhere. Oh, people preach about it and wag their heads. Then they turn on their TVs or go to the movies.

[StephanieC]

I don't even think about this much until something comes up in the forum. I've been on HRT for a year now and I don't think that stuff works the way it did before. And I'd be embarrassed if it did. I'm going down a different path...I'm trying to have some choice over how I get there.

There are bunches of people in the world that don't have sex. Some say doing without that distraction allows them to concentrate on other things. For me, I just don't want to have any complications. It's the same reason I don't seek relationships (however, I do meet lots of new poople).

stephani

[Starling]

Male sexual aggression, self-sacrificing female protectiveness of her offspring, the fight-or-flight reflex, a craving for sweet or fatty foods (with a particular attraction to the smell of meat burning)--all these are instinctive behaviors which took hundreds of thousands of years to emerge in human beings, and which cannot evolve significantly in a mere five thousand years of civilization. Yes, we have social sanctions against deep-rooted behaviors which have become destructive in our modern context, but I'm afraid it's a never-ending struggle. Whether violent movies and video games stimulate people to act out violent and/or sexually abusive feelings or serve to provide harmless outlets for them, well, that is an open question.

:) Lallie

[mariehart]

Men have been aggressive and violent as long as humans have existed. There were no video games in WW1 or WW2 or in any war before that. The latest technology is always blamed for violence. The reality is that men are violent and have always been that way and always will. You only have to see boys playing to realise that.

As for sex drive. I don't object to it. I have a penis attached and it pretty much amuses itself. I wouldn't miss it in any way if it was gone. I have no love for it and it's antics. Recently I had no sexual reactions for a few days and wondered was the sex drive gone. But no it came back.

[Aly Cat]

I don't mind the pleasure of sex, but I have always been self conscious about having an erect penis. There is something about it I just hate. It's really hard to explain. I have always been self aware of that particular anatomy in everyday wear as well. I'm constantly afraid that someone will see a lump in the pants. Even when not erect, I'm just so afraid of anyone seeing any part of that area.

So, when I say I am happy that things are changing, I am very happy. The testes are shrinking big time when is wonderful, and the shaft is basically the same. All erections have stopped which is a total blessing, but even though it's stopped, I can still have orgasms. And multiples at that! I don't do it normally because the libido is just about gone though. It's more a matter of indifference. I don't care one way or another if I do anything sexual or not. It's just a "meh" sort of thing. I'll be happy when I can be a full girl down there and not ever have to worry about that stupid body part ever again.

[Starling]

My genitals changed pretty rapidly when I was on HRT, and I experienced the joy of non-erectile, whole-body orgasm. When I chose to stop for health reasons--I hope not permanently--it was one of the most melancholy days of my life.

:) Lallie

[DeeDee1974]

I'm pleased to report that my sex drive has come full circle. It virtually disappeared when I started HRT, and now it's back and it's wonderful! I must say, I have quite a different take on things now though. Whatever!

I experienced this as well.

Another thing is I feel that I am in much more control of my sex drive than I used to be. Sex isn't the goal it's a nice a addition to the right situation, but if it doesn't happen so what.

[MichelleHart]

I can only say how it was for me. In the beginning, I found that my preoccupation with being all woman sort of took away my libido. I wasn't so much against sex as much as I was trying so hard to think more in a feminine way about sex. Before starting HRT, I was Bi and had a preference for men. I enjoyed sexual encounters with women but for me it was more pleasant with a man. When I started to transition, I didn't realize if it was the hormones or just me mentally adjusting to becoming me. Yes, the sexual desires dropped off for a bit but when I finally found someone that found me to be sexually desirable it came back with a bit of vengeance. I did notice that it was more of a whole body experience than a somewhat localized one.

[Rachel Smith]

Before HRT I was bi. It didn't really matter if sex was with a male or a female. If I watched a movie whether it was G, R, X or XXX I always imagined myself being the woman and how satisfying that must be.
While I still imagine myself in the womans role it no longer gives me a sexual feeling.

It wasn't long after starting HRT, perhaps 6 months my desire to have sex with anyone M or F was gone, still is. I can no longer have orgasms of any kind. I was a touchy feely male and would be just as happy laying with someone as having sex with them. After 1 1/2 years on HRT it just doesn't matter anymore. It is the desire that I miss not the actual act itself. I am sure that this is all interconnected though as w/o the possibility of an orgasm I don't care about the holding, touching, spooning part either. I mean it's not like it's going to lead an orgasm so why bother with it.

[Jessy Jamz]

I don't have an issue with a sex drive, it's just the male, testosterone-driven sex drive that I'm not comfortable with. I think I look at sex from a more feminine perspective.

[Sarah V]

I also think about sex, but it is female sex, and my sex drive is derived/supported from my feminine perspective, and not the male side. I do love women though, for obvious reasons.