Finding Acceptance Within the BDSM/kink community

[Ava Tryptyk]

Hello, everyone! It has been a while since I've posted, so I want to provide you with a brief update (that may lead to a good discussion).

Toward the end of last year (2013) I started posting pictures of myself venturing outside en femme. I continued venturing outside, and it was exciting for a while, but eventually I found myself wanting to do more. I realized that for me, doing things dressed up alone (at my apartment or within walking distance of my apartment) is not nearly as interesting as doing things dressed up while interacting with other people. I was able to solve this problem by becoming active in my local BDSM/kink community.

Now, why BDSM? I had been doing some research on it for a while and discovered pretty quickly that crossdressing is a common part of BDSM activities, and it dawned on me that people who are practitioners of BDSM probably are used to seeing biological males wearing female clothing. I already had an account on FetLife (the kinky version of Facebook) for a year or two but had basically just been a lurker. I found my local community there and started talking to a few people online, and I met up with one of them and he took me on a shopping trip (a lot of the clothes from my previous pictures here were acquired during that trip). It took me several months to get the courage to go to a munch (in the community, informal dinners at restaurants are known as munches, and people don't dress in fetish gear). The first munch I went to was a small gathering of maybe 5-6 people (it was a TNG munch, meaning that it was exclusively for the 18-35 age range). I was very nervous, but everyone was very nice and I felt very comfortable telling them that I am a crossdresser (I was in guy mode, and in the beginning attended most munches as a guy, but now I always go en femme).

Honestly, becoming a part of this group was the best thing for my crossdressing. I regularly attend munches now (en femme) and am currently the leader/main event organizer for the TNG group. One very generous GG friend from the first munch I attended ended up giving me a lot of clothing and makeup she no longer used/needed, and she (and a few others) have been giving me tips about makeup (and I think I can do a pretty decent job now!) I also have been attending play parties. For those who are unfamiliar, play parties are typically private gatherings (usually at someone's house) where people participate in various BDSM activities (bondage, impact play, various types of sensory play, domination/submission scenes, etc). I've discovered through these parties that I really like being a submissive (I had a feeling about it previously, but the parties confirmed it). Like the munches, I only attend play parties en femme (I really have no desire to do any kinky stuff in guy mode). I've also gone out dancing with people from this group (usually at the local gay bar), attended a few shows. I've had a few sexual encounters as well, though I've also simply made some good friends (with whom I do things non-kink related; hanging out, playing card/video games, etc - sometimes en femme, sometimes as a guy).

I've been hit on (often by guys), though I am finding that I don't mind it that much. It's flattering, and I have been slowly experimenting with doing things with guys (though I still find doing things with girls to be more appealing overall).

Of course, I don't want to imply that joining a BDSM group is the solution for everyone, but it may be a possibility. I'm simultaneously a crossdressing fetishist (doing it for sexual pleasure) and a passing-oriented crossdresser (someone interested in going out in the "vanilla" world and interacting with people en femme in completely non-sexual settings). Does anyone have any thoughts/experiences they would like to share?

[WhisperTV]

I've discovered through these parties that I really like being a submissive
I was involved in an S&M relationship four 4 years as a dominate male. You're lucky, because dominate males are a dime a dozen. It's the submissive females who are the important ones :) But for whatever reason, the "scene" never interested me. The relationship I was in was a loving one between me and my girlfriend.

It's not surprising that cross dressers are accepted since S&M depends on clothing almost as much as cross dressing. It's just that cross dressers have a lot more clothes to buy.

I hope you have fun with it. For me though, S&M is pretty much in my rear view mirror.

[Katey888]

No experiences I'd like to share, Sveta - but thanks for sharing yours.. :)

You raise some interesting points about the perspective of acceptance in these other communities - and I'll be interested to see how many other folk from our community are overlapping with the BDSM one (or indeed, perhaps only those who are willing to admit they overlap... ;)) Even in not sharing the delights of BDSM itself, the quest for acceptance is such a strong one, it might even prove attractive just for that aspect - only, of course, if any other community was willing to accept us as strange, 'partial' aficionados to their little pastime.

That's a really enlightening post and will perhaps open some interesting discussions... :thinking: Thanks again for sharing such a well written post!

Katey x

[Rogina B]

It has been my experiences that the kinky set is accepting of anyone willing to cross to the dark side. What excites one person may not do the same for another,but it is interesting to observe,anyway!:D

[Genny B]

I recently had an experience that makes me believe this is a very good possibility. I have gone out in public once to a support group meeting and there was a GG present who brought a friend from her BDSM group along. So I started thinking why would a friend from a BDSM group want to come to meeting of crossdressers, before they went to their BDSM meeting following our social event?
Genny B

[Jaylyn]

I'll weigh in just a little here. My wife and I have been very experimental in everything from domination to swinging. We have crossed paths with a sort of BDSM of her wanting to be spanked and dominated. Everything from nipple clamps to padded cuffs and blindfolds. Remember we were a product of the sixties and it seemed that the kicks just kept getting harder to find. We experimented when she was going thru her forties and early fifties, which I have heard is when GG peak in sexual activity. I do know this was an exciting time in our lives as I never knew what mood she might be in. I really believe this is why she has been so accepting of me CD ing and trying a few kinks of my own. we are very much in love and have enjoyed growing to where we are at in our lives today... Might have to write a book one day but would have to be under a factious name as we really don't want the Grandkids to know what all we have tried.... Lol

[Jenniferathome]

...why BDSM? I had been doing some research on it for a while and discovered pretty quickly that crossdressing is a common part of BDSM activities, ...

OK, I have zero experience in this lifestyle but I can only imagine that cross dressing is a form of humiliation in such a lifestyle, no? The motive behind cross dressing is significant, in my opinion. To me, that would make cross dressing not at all related to BDSM.

[WhisperTV]

Pretty much yes, it's humiliation from the things I saw outside of my relationship. Maybe Sveta has a different experience.

I pretty much agree that's not CDing as CDing is an expression of part of who the person is. But I can also see someone saying, "Hey, they're wearing a dress."

I can also see a CDer dressing as a mistress or submissive for some role play that doesn't involve humiliation. I wouldn't mind doing this myself so long as it was in the context of a relationship and was only an occasional part of the relationship. But a full time BDSM relationship can be some deep bleep. I had fun, but I don't want to do it again. Too emotionally intense for someone who's 50.

[Katey888]

OK, I have zero experience in this lifestyle but I can only imagine that cross dressing is a form of humiliation in such a lifestyle, no?
No - I think you'll find we have had members her who have been in the 'TV Domme' category... And a little bit of Googling confirms that category is quite numerous... :)

I would agree with you, Jennifer, that the motive is very significant - but I'd also suggest that it is possible that BDSMers will have a range of motives every bit as complex and intertwined as ours are...

Katey x

[jaye_cd]

I've attended a lot of local kink events and when I first started going it was in guy mode, and while I was having a lot of fun people watching, I noticed a lot of sisters there just having a grand old time. So I went with my wife and a GG friend of ours to one dressed for the first time and we just had a great evening. I was told about that Fet site by her to find other events and such that evening and connected with a lot of other local girls in the process. One has become one of my closest friends and we do all kinds of things together totally outside the kink scene. I almost exclusively go to these events en femme now unless my wife specifically requests that I don't. I've talked to quite a few sisters there and most of them are there just as a way to get out into the public dressed in a place where you're totally accepted.

[Marguarite]

Hello Sveta,
I have had a similar blend of BDSM and CD, although it has been more the other way around. Thirty years ago my now wife an i discussed our interest in kink on our first date and proceed to explore life together from there. I gladly assumed the submissive role, and found that i relished it. We discussed many possibilities, including crossdressing, bondage , impact play, and turning me over to others for training, including men. My first night out dressed en femme was to a halloween party at our club. Before that i had been intrigued by some members that came to different parties and events crossdressed in fetish and street attire. This inflamed my interest and started me down the road to many discoveries, and where i find myself now. My wife and i are no longer involved in BDSM, and she supports me as much as she can.

[MatildaJ.]

it is possible that BDSMers will have a range of motives every bit as complex and intertwined as ours are.

Yes, I've been in the BDSM world since the early 1990s, and people have all sorts of motives for their participation. There are transgender kinky people, for whom the BDSM scene provides an opportunity to be themselves, as far as clothes and also power exchange, sensation play, etc. For them, it's not humiliating to wear a dress, or corset, or six inch heels -- it just feels right. (There are also people who feel most themselves when wearing a latex pony outfit -- also not about humiliation.)

There are other men who do see crossdressing as part of a humiliation fetish. For some of those, I think the degradation & humiliation are the main attraction. But for others, I think the humiliation is just a way of getting permission to enjoy wearing women's clothes. They need to be "forced" by someone else (usually a woman) to wear the clothes because they feel tremendous guilt... but over time, they may come to admit that they seek this out and would like to do it more often, not just under duress.

As a GG, I will say that my own exposure to the BDSM world helped me accept my husband when he eventually revealed his interest in cross-dressing. But kinks aren't fungible, unfortunately, so the fact that I like to be tied up doesn't translate into liking dressing him up. It just means that I don't see him as a terrible person for wanting that.

[WhisperTV]

degradation & humiliation
Besides clothes, the other thing BDSM shares with CDing is you just keep going deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole. Just like the sexual thrill of wearing panties only lasts so long, so to does the thrill of being handcuffed to the bed only last so long. This month it's fine, but next month it's something else, then something more, etc. Deeper and deeper.

Just as CDing has given me an appreciation for men's clothes, BDSM has given me an appreciation for shallow relationships. There are just some parts of a submissive's psyche that I don't want to see anymore.

[mechamoose]

I have been into BDSM/Power Play stuff for a long time, and I have to say that I have not seen any of us in that space before.

While I think it could be about humiliation to some extent, I think it may also be the 'role' aspect of Master/Slave stuff that crosses with our dressing an 'off gender' part.

I have some dead-straight male friends who like a pretty little boi in a dress.

- MM

[MatildaJ.]

Besides clothes, the other thing BDSM shares with CDing is you just keep going deeper and deeper down that rabbit hole.

I disagree. In my experience, it's more like the crossdressers' pink fog: at the beginning, it's so exciting, and you keep finding new layers and new activities that are thrilling. But after some time, it settles down: most people find a level that scratches their itch but lets them live a normal life otherwise.

For CDers, that might be dressing at home twice a week and going out once a month in public. Or spending three full days a month en femme, at a hotel in another city so they don't run into neighbors when grocery shopping.

For BDSMers, that might mean established expectations (such as, he chooses the restaurant when we go out to eat) and agreeing on a rough schedule as far as sexual & sensory activities so both people get what they need. Our play together didn't change much after the first couple of years, when we figured out what we liked. (Until his midlife crisis, that is, when he told me about the CDing, and also revealed that he wanted to experience the bottoming side of BDSM instead of just being the top.)

[LilSissyStevie]

Since some here maintain that crossdressing is genetic, I don't see how motive could possibly matter or maybe it's not genetic when it takes a form that's disapproved. Otherwise, MTF crossdressing could only be humiliating to those that desperately cling to their "manhood." For those of us who don't, many forms of emasculation are liberating. I've never had any inclination to hang out with fellow BDSMers but it appears to me that BDSMers are more tolerant of difference than the typical CDer.

[WhisperTV]

(Until his midlife crisis, that is, when he told me about the CDing, and also revealed that he wanted to experience the bottoming side of BDSM instead of just being the top.)
Sorry to hear that. I hope that didn't ruin it for you, but I know it would have for the girl I was with. She wanted a Master, not a switch.

[flatlander_48]

I can see the parallels in the BDSM and CD communities regarding submission. An obvious facet of being female revolves around the concept of being submissive. Often when we dress and enter the world in female form, this mindset is something we adopt or, at least, is expected by some of the people that we come in contact with. I would hazard a guess that this may be a very important part of crossdressing for many of us. Even if we don't desire to be submissive on a continuing basis, it may have the effect of allowing us to recharge before we return to a more dominant mindset.

[MatildaJ.]

Thanks for your kind wishes, WhisperTV. My kids learned in school: "you get what you get and you don't make a fuss." I signed on with this master. Now he has new needs. If he had become a paraplegic, I hope I wouldn't walk away; no one promised life would be easy. A lot of women want "Prince Charming," but over time I would hope most of them understand that "Prince Charming" is only in literature, not in real life.

As for me, my husband still gives me "that look" that makes me melt :-) If sometimes he expects me to spank him, well, that's not any harder than other things he used to ask of me. I don't boss him around, generally, although we've experimented with releasing my inner teenage brat, who can come out within a specific scene to torment him delightfully.

It's not what I thought I was signing up for, but then we've been good life partners for twenty years, so I'm trying to rise cheerfully to the challenge rather than slink off in despair.

[WhisperTV]

Good girl. :)

[Ava Tryptyk]

Thank you for the responses! I am not going to reply to each and every post, but I appreciate all of them. Some people have posted multiple times in this thread, so for their responses I am trying to take into account all of their posts.

WhisperTV: I've noticed as well that most Doms in the community tend to be male, and most submissives tend to be female. Among both genders, though, there are many who identify as switches (that is, they enjoy being both Dom/Top or submissive/bottom). I lean strongly toward the submissive side, though I will occasionally top as a favor to others (I suppose I could be considered a "service top").

There are a few other crossdressers in my local group, though most of them only dress up at parties and other kink events. I am a bit different in that I dress semi-regularly in the vanilla world (such as at munches, which take place in public at local restaurants). Because of this, I do indeed require more clothes than BDSM-specific crossdressers; I require provocative, revealing outfits as well as conservative ones.

On the topic of humiliation/degradation, there are some people in the community for whom crossdressing would satisfy a humiliation fetish during specific scenes, but this is not true of all crossdressers in the BDSM community. There are many who like playing the role of a mistress or just want to look more feminine. For me, dressing as a female makes me feel alluring and sensual (not at all humiliating!) and helps me get into the submissive mindset. I should also mention that at parties and kink events there are a fair amount of people who dress in a genderfluid/androgynous style.

I have not yet participated in a D/s relationship and don't think I could handle doing it 24/7, simply because I have a whole other vanilla side to my life that may make it difficult for me to focus on the D/s stuff. Though I would like to find a partner and do some short-term D/s roleplay scenes from time to time.

As for there being a relation between crossdressing and BDSM, the way I see it is that there is so much diversity in both communities that there is bound to be some overlap.

Katey888: In general, to be accepted in the BDSM community (to come to a munch, for example), the requirements are very basic: you must be of age (in the United States, that means 18+), and you should have some interest in kink. Kink is a very broad term in this sense and it goes well beyond what comes to most people's minds, and people will not look down upon you for being "not kinky enough" or having the "wrong" kind of kink. There are people in the group who are not into some of the "typical" kinky things like being flogged or tied up in rope bondage, and it is no problem - they are into other things. The main reason anyone would not be accepted is if they are rude (openly showing disgust/disapproval at someone's kink), make unwanted sexual advances, steal, or do other harmful things. Basically things that would get you kicked out of any other group. The group is very welcoming to "vanilla" people who are unsure of their place within the kink community and have questions.

Jaye_cd: Your situation sounds a lot like mine (other than the fact that I'm not married). A big part of my reason for reaching out was that so I could have a new group of friends who would know, right from the beginning, that I am a crossdresser.

JessM: I agree 100% with your post, and you did a great job of explaining the different reasons behind crossdressing in the context of BDSM. I would not feel at all humiliated wearing a corset, dress, or heels, but I wouldn't be too happy if I had to wear a pony outfit or a clown suit.

[Beverley Sims]

Sveta,
An interesting twist to an old story.
I am pleased it works for you.

[KaceyR]

A real interesting write-up.
I must say even I have been looking a bit at the BDSM side of things and wondering about applicitability..
Mainly as I crossdress and do things out (go to bars,interact, etc) already.
My own sexuality aspect has kind of opened up dramatically last couple months.
I'd looked at and monitored FB and other pages+groups involved with say, sissification, femdom, and such leading to other parts..pegging, lighter D/S,bondage, and other things. I consider myself BI and likely a sub more than anything.
But yeah the part that mismatches a bit is the humiliation aspect.
Would I be humiliated to be forced to wear fem stuff and be directed out? Nope, not really.
From my side/POV it'd just be a fun outing.
I mean.. In my side, I'm already out more, friends and family know, so there's not much to be humiliated from.
My RL attitudes, and my dressing essentially I think is more of a Dysphoria release anyways so it's not a real difference.
The only addition might be a sub/restricted aspect. But the clothes would not be the reason for any humiliation.
Maybe if I was forced to 'not look good at it' then... :)

Granted I've yet to really act on anything within the BDSM side... Costs, my limited budget, and such have pretty much kept me away from really pursuing anything like that. Or even any relationships. I am a solo person and pretty much have stayed that way all my life (48 yrs). But I recently had some revelations to me of some of this side of life by close friends which shook up my thoughts on it all even more. So I really kind of have been having some big thoughts about myself both in gender and sexuality expression at the same time. With both sides being figured out (gender/sex) it's really made for a bit of a mess in logically working it out. For me, one led to the other, which led back to the one.
A slight fetish (wearing lingerie as a kink) eventually led me to fully crossdressing and gender issues.
Crossdressing and my expression out with it led to further revelations by friends of their sexuality aspect.
Which then woke me up to my own sexual side, expression, and interests.

It's been an amazing year...just wish it hadn't taken 30 (since legal :)) years of my life to have started figuring it out :(

[Vickie_CDTV]

I have known quite a few kinky folks over the years, and even been to a few events (mostly munches) though it has been many years, I'd reconnect with some of them but unfortunately the group folded and I don't know where they all went. Old Lady (my former long time girlfriend) was rather adventurous, and introduced me to a number of her kinky friends she had at the time.

Interestingly enough, one of the things my job has taught me is how people react and deal with pain. The pain is not intentional of course, it is a side effect, but it has been fascinating studying it.

As far as understanding goes, nudists also tend to be pretty open minded as well. Someday I will let a friend convince me to go to the local club Empire Haven and try it out... someday. En drab, of course.

[Kate Simmons]

I was involved in B&D briefly some years ago. The only problem I found was that it seemed everyone assumed I wanted to be a "Sub" because I was a CDer. Talk about stereotyping. Not to mention I was ready to deck my "Master". I realized it wasn't for me as I need to be my own person and not directed by someone else. If you have found a niche there, more power to you. Whatever makes you happy Hon.:battingeyelashes::)

[Jackie7]

Sveta, your experiences parallel mine. Many years ago, I first found acceptance and encouragement in the BDSM community, my wife and I are still active there, though it is only one of our worlds. I am a switch and have had a lot of fun topping as well as bottoming.

[mikiSJ]

[...] I can only imagine that cross dressing is a form of humiliation in such a lifestyle, no? The motive behind cross dressing is significant, in my opinion. To me, that would make cross dressing not at all related to BDSM.
No experience here either, but I once had a very masculine male in a very feminine French Maid's uniform standing in line after me at the local Safeway. I acknowledged him (this is the proper pronoun in this case) and he politely and in a voice nearly an octave lower than mine said "party games". I think I can say with about 95% certainty that he was a sub and that his domme (male/female/wife/BFF/rental) 'asked' him to run down to the store and get some ice cream.

Jennifer, I don't think the two concepts are mutually exclusive. One of my favorite story quips was from B'rer Rabbit to Br'er Fox - "Please don't throw me into that briar bush'.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Sveta, That is an area that has always fascinated me although I've never had a chance to be involved.

[sherri]

I've been a Fetlife member for some time, monitoring the activities of the local group(s), and even attended a vanilla gathering once. There seems to be a core group that's pretty active. Ime, I don't think acceptance (or at least tolerance) would be a problem if I decided to participate more, but there doesn't seem to be much interest in TGs (or maybe they'e just not interested in me). Guys message me pretty often but they're basically just horn-dogs looking to get laid. I've spelled out my own kinks pretty thoroughly on my profile, and expressed interest in others, but all that's largely ignored by the chasers. Needless to say, they don't get very far with me.

As for the humiliation kink, it would be pretty hard to embarrass me based solely on my dressing cuz it's, like, what I do, right? But there are situational scenarios that could push that button ...

A couple of additional observations ... there seems to be quite a bit of interest in bdsm among the younger crowd, which is interesting. Locally, obesity seems to be predominant. Not judging, but I find it a bit odd among people who place so much emphasis on the physical. And, most of the local Fetlifers are interested in kinks too extreme for my taste, and there seems to be a interest in occult and/or some sort of weird mythology, which is a big turn-off to me.

[PaulaQ]

I haven't had much luck yet in the local kink community. Lots of folks happy to see me as a submissive man in a dress. Sadly, I'm neither.

I'll keep trying.

[Lynn Marie]

You can tie me up or strap me down any time you like. I'll even bring everything you'll need!

[Tracii G]

I went to a BDSM event one time with a friend and found some of the kinks interesting but not something I would do personally.
She asked I come enfemme so I did and they were accepting that part is true.
Never understood the humiliation kink at all.

[Ava Tryptyk]

Kate Simmons: People likely thought that because it is indeed common for both GG females (and MtF crossdressers) to be submissives. But you should never be forced to take a submissive role if that's not what you are interested in. I'm glad you gave it a chance, though!

Sherri: Yeah, there are plenty of creepers on FetLife and I've gotten some weird messages from them. Usually people who have a fetish for crossdressers and want hookups. I typically just ignore them. People like that tend not to interact much with the "core" community (the regular attendees of munches and parties), so I don't really have to deal with them.

The community is very diverse in terms of the age range - our group has people in their 50s and 60s, but we also have an active TNG group for the 18-35 crowd. Some of the younger people mostly interact with the other younger people, but I tend to mingle with everyone. As for obesity, it's a body-image-positive environment and for some people obesity can even work in their favor (there are numerous "BBW" and "plus-size" groups), and being obese won't make you any worse at flogging someone or tying them up in rope. We have a few obese members in our group and they are able to have a lot of fun, so it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Mechamoose: I don't really see a connection between religion and crossdressing/BDSM. People don't really talk about religion at munches/parties and like anything, it is frowned upon in the community to openly disapprove of anyone's religion (or lack of religion). The "you like what you like" attitude is the most prevalent attitude in the community.

[Stevie]

Very interesting. Cding was introduced into my life though bdsm. Even if I had the tendencies early on it was my interest with bdsm that drew me into cross dressing.

[Niya W]

Many years ago, (when I was not an innocent princess) I use to go to a place called the power exchange. It Usually worked out the the domes were either TS,CD or GG. with most subs being men.

[Secret Drawer]

I have been a member of numerous BDSM communities for more or less my entire adult life. There certainly is as much diversity as one could imagine from one end of the spectrum to the other, and based on the OP's comment, yes, for the most part it is almost like gender is not really all that important for many. It is not so much how you present as whether you are a domme or switch or slave, etc.
One of the more interesting events I attended had all the submissives as ponygirls, so whether or not you had CDing tendancies or not, that night (if you were a submissive) you were a girl!

[Darlabtg]

Nice to see some positive experiences. Unfortunately the limited experiences I've had both online and attending local munches were either dull (not interesting or compatible people) or creepy (those that refuse to show their faces online or creepy in real life). I haven't written off bdsm because of this but I'm not too optimistic about finding a Top local to me because of this. I've seen a few compatible online while on fetlife but they were at too great a distance. Anyway, I am considering attending distant events.

[WhisperTV]

Nice to see some positive experiences. Unfortunately the limited experiences I've had both online and attending local munches were either dull (not interesting or compatible people) or creepy (those that refuse to show their faces online or creepy in real life). I haven't written off bdsm because of this but I'm not too optimistic about finding a Top local to me because of this. I've seen a few compatible online while on fetlife but they were at too great a distance. Anyway, I am considering attending distant events.
If you have a "significant other" it may be worthwhile to talk with them about being a top. Being a top (or Master as they call it in BDSM) isn't hard at all. It's finding someone you feel comfortable with that's hard. If you already have such a person, you're more than half way there.