I feel inferior to genetic women

[PaulaQ]

I'm sure others have wrestled with this. Although I'm progressing in my transition, I still have a long way to go. I am feeling a lot better, but I have the sinking suspicions that:
1. Most women (well really, most other people) won't consider me to be a woman, once they know I'm trans - not a real woman anyway.
2. Mostly they are right. I'm working on having all manner of stuff done to try to correct all the horrible defects of having a male body. But in the end, other than HRT, it really is all superficial in that all it does is change my appearance. (Although I'm hoping SRS is more than this, because these feelings are hard to take. I am so tired of having nightmares about having male genitals.)

It just feels to me that my body is totally broken, at least from the perspective of being a woman, and that there are pretty serious limitations on how much of it can be fixed. (Assuming I don't first run into the limiter of running out of coin to pay for work on it.)

I feel like at the end of all this, I'll still feel inferior and broken compared with genetic women. My dysphoria will be less than it is now, I'll be even better accepted than I am now, at least amongst people who don't know, and I'll always have some qualifier like "trans" stuck on me so that I'll never really be just a "woman." I'll always be something different - an imitation, at least on the outside in the eyes of the world. Perhaps that will have to be good enough for me.

I'll deal with it - I'm handicapped and have been all my life, so I'm used to feeling inferior about my body. It's somewhat worse that it's pretty much my entire body in this case, but whatever. Hopefully I'll get used to it and forget about it most of the time.

Anyone else ever feel this way?

[September]

Most women (well really, most other people) won't consider me to be a woman, once they know I'm trans - not a real woman anyway...It just feels to me that my body is totally broken, at least from the perspective of being a woman, and that there are pretty serious limitations on how much of it can be fixed...I feel like at the end of all this, I'll still feel inferior and broken compared with genetic women.

Paula, I want to send you a huge hug through the inter-world! If women don't accept you as a woman, then they are not people worth your time and attention. Surround yourself with supportive, caring, accepting, beautiful people...just like you! Everyone...and especially, every woman...feels like her body is broken, has serious limitations, and inferior. We live in a society that brainwashes us to think that if we don't look like movie stars, we aren't beautiful. Well, even movie stars don't look like that. There are a lot of genetic women who have "excessive" body hair, flat breasts, no breasts (due to surgery), extremely tall, very muscular, etc. There isn't one way to look like a woman. There are many ways. Looking like a woman isn't as important as being a woman. And that means whatever it means to you. Whenever I feel inferior, I try to do something good for others. Giving to your community, being active, participating in a cause, these actions connect us to other human beings. And isn't that what life is all about?

[LeaP]

Anyone else ever feel this way?

Sure. It was one of the things that kept me feeling trapped for so long. Damned if I do. Damned if I don't.

I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that I don't care what other people think at all, but I have gone a long, long way down that path. Somewhere along the line, I started feeling entitled to be myself. And sometime after that, I started feeling comfortable being so. I still remember when it started.

I can pinpoint the location exactly. I was traveling, walking through Charlotte airport and I was acutely self-conscious about my developing chest. I was slouching along as usual, hiding. Something in me just said "screw it" and I stood up straight and walked normally. I have ever since.

I wasn't trapped. I was holding myself back by measuring myself by others' standards. That only starts receding when you start feeling your own "rightness."

[Jorja]

At one point or another I think we all feel that way, Paula. Almost every woman I have ever known feels that she is broken. She feels that there is a part of her body that just doesn't measure up. I have found over the past 34 years living as a woman, it just doesn't matter. Every woman is beautiful be they genetic or trans. So just be you and do it like only you can do. Let everyone else worry about all of the other stupid stuff. Every woman is beautiful, some show it with their faces, others show it with their hearts.

[Angela Campbell]

Not me. I have actually experienced acceptance from the women I know, knew or meet. They never treat me as inferior, in fact they act as if we both know a secret the men don't. I have even shared dressing rooms when shopping or at the beach or pool.

no I feel far from perfect but not inferior. Did I at one time? Sure.

[Tamara Croft]

You have what is called 'woe is me' syndrome, which can be cured by standing in the mirror every morning and telling yourself you are beautiful, you are worthy and you ARE a woman! Just because you were made wrong at birth, does not mean you aren't a woman :hugs:

I had 'woe is me' syndrome, not in the same way you have it, but because I almost lost my life, but I pulled my shit together and got on with my life, which is what you need to do and stop worrying about what you 'think' other people are thinking, believe me, 'most' people actually don't care ;)

[kimdl93]

I think every human being experiences similar feelings at one time or another....with the possible exception narcissists and sociopaths. It may help if you start off following this mantra: other people's opinions of me are none of my business.

In the final analysis, if you accept yourself, it doesn't matter whether you think GGs accept you as a woman or not. You can't know what every GG thinks. (Some, like Tamara above, will tell you.)

[Barbara Ella]

I think it is normal for everyone, at one time or another, to feel inferior to something or someone. i do believe that as we deal with this over time, it lessens as we improve and move into more accepting circles. To compare what we have to work with and against to what a natal female has developed over years and years with their genetic head start is not really a fair comparison. i cannot know what others think, and it doesn't bother me unless they voice their concern, and are willing to discuss it. Acceptance is a unique thing that not everyone will be able to give, so that is their choice, and will in no way deter me from doing everything within my ability to continue to become more of a woman each day.

Everyone has something they must work to overcome. Likewise, I have a birth defect I have lived with and hated, and used as the excuse for not being able to do things or be accepted, for my entire life. Only after realizing I was truly a woman did I see how much I lost over my life by giving this too much importance.

You are a beautiful woman, and have a great life ahead of you. total acceptance, most likely not. Should that lessen the joy you are now experiencing, and the increasing joy in future years, not a bit!

Barbara

[PaulaQ]

I'm sitting here eating some soup, with half a beard randomly patched across my face in preparation for electrolysis in a couple of days. I've had this experience for 10 months now (although the random half of a beard is a new and unfortunate experience), and am wondering how this isn't a physical inferiority most women dont suffer from. I know some women have facial hair, but a beard like mine is freakish rare amongst genetic women.

But anyway - nightmares. I have them. Most of them are sufficiently awful and disgusting that I really don't care to repeat them. But I had a dream a few days ago about trying to change in the women's locker room after swimming. The locker room was packed! Grown women, little girls. There was really no private place to change, just a big open room with lockers, benches, and showers.

And I realized that I couldn't bring myself to change out of my suit. (It was a one-piece, black, for any CDs reading this), I was horrified at the prospect of those little girls (or the grown women) seeing my junk, diminished though it now is.

I woke up in a cold sweat.

So I dunno, mirror affirmations, which I do, BTW, don't really seem to help with these feelings.

I'm not looking for excuses not to live my life, I am used to living with physical limitations, it just seems like my body is going to impose some limitations on my life. Maybe it won't so much, but it seems like it will:
- People ask me about my vagina, quite frequently as in "do I have one." Do most genetic women get these questions? I get em at least once a week.
- Not actually having one feels like an inferiority to me. (See prior nightmare.)
- I'm not so worried about beauty, although people mentioned that a lot. Best case, I need a fair amount of medical and surgical support to be a woman, or at least pass reliably as one. My experiences when I don't pass seem to be different than experiences I've seen genetic women experience, that feels kind of inferior to me. I assume anyway that few cis GGs here argue with anyone that they are women.
- I don't really care what people think, and I wouldn't care at all if it didn't seem to affect their treatment of me. Maybe that never improves - I can deal with it, but it sucks, and certainly feels inferior to me.
- I don't have much hair on my head, and that can't be fixed with the current state of the art. So I rely on prosthetics.

This is a pretty big pile of things. Just seems hard for me to accept that I'm as good as any other woman when I'm just demonstrably not. Particularly the whole penis thing. I'm so ashamed of that. I really am. It's just horrible looking. I know some of us are ok with having one, but not me. I'm trying, but the stupid thing just nauseates me. (I'm not bothered by friends who have theirs still. I'm totally OK with this organ on someone else, man or woman. But not on me.)

[Lilo]

I am sorry you feel this way. Yes, I have also struggled with these thoughts. It took a while until I could say screw it and live fully. I was worried about everything. First it was my looks, then it was my voice, then my hair, etc... It may never end. The only way to kill this cycle is to decide to live your life how you like it and screw the world. Lift your chest like others have said. Even if you did not have these issues, which we all do, you would still strugle with something else. It takes recognizing that this is all inside you to overcome it. People with disabilities and many other visually obvious features are able to overcome them and so can you.

[PaulaQ]

@Lilo - I am disabled as well, and have been for my entire life. I draw a lot of attention to myself when I walk someplace, which is also quite painful for me. The walking, that is, not the attention - I mostly ignore that, as well as the stares when I don't pass. That doesn't make any of it less real, or tons more pleasant to live through. Some days, ignoring it all goes better than others.

Mostly though it's not about other people. It's about me. I feel lousy about my body. It's just broken, and always has been. It seems unbelievable to me that it can even be fixed. People have offered me hope about it my whole life. (Well, at least hope about my legs.) It never happens. Ever. They mean well. But they have always been wrong. It's just hard sometimes to feel a lot of hope, that it will indeed, get better. I'm sure this is different, but it's just hard to feel it right now.

I think my fight with gender dysphoria isn't going so well at the moment. I think that's what is behind most of this.

[MatildaJ.]

If walking is painful, maybe a wheelchair would help?

[Lilo]

I am sorry about your disability too. The important thing is that you recognize that you could care less about what others think. This is a very tough step. It was at least for me. Now the issue of self-acceptance is also hard. I am not qualified to help you there. It seems like this is something to talk about in therapy. I struggled mostly with external stuff. I still have insecurities from scars and other physical issues. But these were never as strong as my worries of what others think. I hope you can recognize your attributes and not focus too much on 'deficiencies' that we cant change. Hugs.

[Delila]

First why care what they think? I know that's the easy platitude but I recently encountered a trans woman on a visit to a shoe store. She knew the shoes were for me not my wife looked at me the whole time with courtesy and treated me like most customers. As trans you have an eye for tells you see things that others don't see. Most people won't judge you they have better or more important things on their mind (to them) but you are just another person they pass in the day. I can't think of what the girl that brought my beer looks like. why do I care.

[PaulaQ]

If walking is painful, maybe a wheelchair would help?

Been there, done that as a kid. I'll die first, before I do it again. I've known that since I was little.

My wife used to suggest that they should simply amputate my legs, and replace them with prosthetics. I thought it was a really bad joke at first, but she was quite serious. She dreaded the prospect of me in a wheelchair. She'd tell me that too. I never told her how I felt about the matter of a wheelchair.

[Delila]

How do women feel? Inferior? Broken? Welcome to the real world you are a woman. Hormones don't make that a thing you are a woman that should be your focus. I hope your life is an amazing one. My anecdote I saw at the mall a 12 year old boy I picked him out most wouldn't wearing a dress. If this 12 year old girl has the courage to walk into a mall why can't we all manage what we are dealing with. Sorry this may be far off of your original post.

[becky77]

Hi Paula

I understand what you are saying, I feel my transition is going well I had a great weekend one of the first times I actually felt good about myself (a first). But this week my friend/ex wife is going on a girl's holiday with her sister and niece, first time in 18 years we haven't been on holiday together. I'm fine I get it, we're split etc. But I can't help that it hurts such a holiday is out of my reach, on a hot beach with a wig, barely visible breasts and genitals I can't hide, I would just look a joke. I battle this by telling myself I'm a work in progress, to take it easy on myself and things will get better. I reckon I can get over these hurdles but I agree with you I feel inferior, for example why would a man choose me? I understand there are lots of men that like woman with that little extra! But thats not me, I never want to use that and the idea of a man touching it is horrid. So move forward some time and I have had my SRS etc, I can't help feel why would someone want me over a gentic woman? It's negative thinking and I try push it away but its there all the time and as you say, its a feeling of inferiority.
I actually feel guilty writing this, I have a cheek to compare to you when you have a disability to contend with too.
It's just another one of the things we have to cope with, stay strong Paula your doing so well.

[Xrys]

I understand that feeling like nothing you do will ever be good enough. They have been being girls and doing girl stuff their whole lives, and here I am almost thirty and I am still tying my shoes, much less taking off at the start line. I feel like I will never catch up to Them, that no matter how hard I try and practice and study They will always be far ahead of me and I will forever be trying to catch up. I think the worst part for me is not so much dissatisfaction with where i am as much as it is the difference to where I feel I should be by now. Sometimes I feel like Solomon in the book of Ecclesiastes, that every thing I am fighting for is just vanity and grasping at the wind. But still I struggle on. Why, because I must. I swing until I win or I can't swing anymore. Will I ever win? Will I ever be good enough to be considered one of Them? I do not know. What I do know is that I can still swing, so swing I shall.

[TeresaCD]

Hi Paula.
I feel the same at times, even though my body is more feminine than ever.
Oddly enough, I'm now viewed as 'too skinny' as a guy, but still feel not quite there when expressing myself in the feminine.
And I do feel as though I will always be somewhere in the middle of the 2, and probably viewed as such.
I know I'm transitioning to something, just don't know what it is.
And am much more familiar now with self image challenges than I've ever been. I too wonder if that is a valid expression of femininity..
One thing I've learned, you can't fail at expressing yourself.
You know who you are, and to express that with integrity, as I know you do, is simply not something you can fail at.
I only know I wouldn't be where I am without people like my amazing transcontinental sister Paula :battingeyelashes:

[Persephone]

Sure, Paula, I've had that feeling just like I figure most of us that are in our situation have had at one time or another.

But I have a weird way of looking at it and it gets me through. I think about Dorothy's companions in The Wizard of Oz (told you it was a weird way of looking at it!). But really, think about it -- the Wizard has a wonderful way of looking at their problems and their feelings about themselves. In each case he doesn't give them the thing they think they are missing, rather he gives them something that formally recognizes them for already having what they think they are seeking. A Doctorate in "Thinkology" for the scarecrow who doesn't think he has a brain, a Testimonial for Kindness to the tinman who feels he hasn't got a heart, and a Medal for Courage to the lion who fears he doesn't have courage (you can find more details on this website (click here) (http://www.wendyswizardofoz.com/threegifts.htm).

So when I feel down, thinking I'm "less real" I think about the "proofs" that I AM real. Being a woman is not all about genitals nor boobs, and, if you give yourself the Medal for Being A Woman I think you'll know it's true.

It may sound odd, and I certainly haven't been able to describe it as well as I would like, but it really is a big part of how I live through the "you can't" kinda days.

Hugs,
Persephoine.

[becky77]

Being a woman is not all about genitals nor boobs
Persephoine.

Feels like a little slight on my previous comment. My point was, sitting on a beach in a bikini even if I feel 100% woman inside won't stop two facts, 1) people will stare and laugh, my holiday and those around me will be ruined (also I wouldn't do that to myself) and 2) whilst I still have this disgusting male growth i'm constantly reminded im not a whole person. Sorry if to some people that sounds superficial but its alien to me and it makes me feel miserable. Like a tumour that constantly reminds me im ill as well as being uncomfortable and unsightly.
This is not a dig at you, just that your message is so flippant. I have issues with those areas that doesn't make me any less 'real'.
I already feel a woman inside, so now it's about making the outside match the inside. It's called SRS so it is very much about 'Genitals etc' and some of us can't break past the trap of maleness until those markers are corrected.
I understand your point and i'm sure it's meant kindly but it sounds like a slap in the face for all those going through painful procedures, your words are belittling.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Inferior to women no way never, how i was born was by default being female , not compete,
of cause not and i'v made that plan as, every one who knows me and iv talked to know my background,

im not ashamed of myself why should i be, just because im not complete in every way,

being intersexed opened up doors into peoples hearts in a way i could never have done had i been a all true male or a all true female, because our makeup is different ,.... so what....you show me a male that is 100 % and only male or a female that is 100 % all female,

Time people pulled thier heads out of the sand and woke up to the fact we every one born on this earth is made up of both male and female and theres no way round that little detail

so dont.....EVER..... think you'r inferior your not,

do a little study and youll find we are all normal in our own way , go down the list of hormones and keep going back to the..... Moment..... of conception and youll see it all there, the blue print of life, its fasinating and oh so real.

...noeleena...

[kimdl93]

It's been an interesting thread. Some of what I see expressed is a matter of self image that, for a TS person, is so discordant with ones anatomy as to be painful. I would think that feeling is inherently part of being TS. And I see a lot of well intended encouragement...see the cup as half full. I understand how that might be deemed as condescending or patronizing for a person who can't bear the constant reminder of what lies between their legs, etc.

There seems little room for reconciliation between these two points of view. The best I can offer to those who feel as Paula and Becky do is this: I'm sorry you are hurting. I sort of understand how you feel, within the limits of my capacity to do so. I hope that you can endure this stage of transition and that life will get better for you with each passing day.

[LeaP]

... Some of what I see expressed is a matter of self image that, for a TS person, is so discordant with ones anatomy as to be painful. I would think that feeling is inherently part of being TS. And I see a lot of well intended encouragement...see the cup as half full. ...

There seems little room for reconciliation between these two points of view. ...

I think the problem is often not so much attitude vs. body as it is how the physical discordance plays out. My own view is that anyone with enough necessity to change sexed aspects of their body is likely transsexual. But that doesn't automatically translate into any pre-specified body part being at issue in a given case.

I'm not going to opine on what kinds of issues make someone born male-bodied a woman or "true transsexual." It may be true for some that it does not involve certain primary or secondary sex characteristics. But it clearly - and strongly - does for others.

Is the remark dismissive? Perhaps, but not intentionally so, and it is more likely simply a reflection of one person's experience.

[becky77]

Is the remark dismissive? Perhaps, but not intentionally so, and it is more likely simply a reflection of one person's experience.

I don't think it is dismissive and I truly believe it was meant in a nice way. It's just that i'm not a fan of throw away, sweeping statements. Even if meant lovingly it's still condescending.

Thanks Kim, I am enduring, im in it for the long run however long that takes. But i'm ok, im not hurting like Paula currently is. Well not right now anyway lol.

[Rhonda Jean]

Paula,
You are in a cycle of perpetual and unresolvable discontent. It seems that you've gotten some of what you thought would make you happy, and it wasn't enough. At this rate it'll never be enough. You need to be seeing a pro about it. It's obvious that if you're depressed about not being born a woman, you're setting yourself for, like I said, perpetual and unresolvable discontent. You've done a lot. That's an understatement. Maybe it isn't what you thought it would be. A little buyers remorse perhaps.

You know I'm just a lowly crossdresser and don't have to deal with many of the things you do. I get that. I also know that some people come by their happiness and contentment naturally, while for others it's a process. Look at the bottom line here. You hate having a penis, you want a vagina, but you still won't be happy because you weren't born with it.

You've got to find some way to resolve that discontent. You need to see a pro. Soon.

I'm not preaching. I've had to develop my own process. The process occurs from the inside out. If you live your life thinking, "If I could only do this or have that I'd be happy", you won't ever be.

I hope that getting your head right will become your top priority. It's more important than laser treatments or surgeries. Those are the external things.

[arbon]

For me its not a feeling of being inferior, but more like feeling incomplete and different than other women. Generally they did not live most of their lives as boys / men and have the right body parts. I try to focus on not comparing though, and being myself.

[MatildaJ.]

Been there, done that as a kid. I'll die first, before I [use a wheelchair] again.

I can't understand that. But I'm very sorry for your pain and hope you can find help coping with it.

[DeeDee1974]

I've been lucky that all of the women in my life have been very accepting and have gone out of their way to make sure they always treat me like a woman. But I do know that if someone went out of their way to try and make me feel like less that I would be very hurt.

So on the surface I don't feel like less, but I have come to realize later through therapy that pre transition I held some jealousy towards genetic women. On my head I wrongly assumed that if you're born a woman life is perfect. Especially for attractive woman. It was such a messed up way of thinking.

A combination of therapy and close friendships with some remarkable women have led me to understand life is full of ups and downs for everyone.

[Kathryn Martin]

Paula,

How does a woman know that she is dealing with another woman? There are no secret handshakes. It is a matter of personal agency, because women recognize women even if they were born with a male body. You seem to be constantly setting yourself up for failure. If you take the view under your first point, you will forever search for signs how you as a woman are shunted. You even admit that they are mostly right. Why is that? This has nothing to do with how much surgery you have to tweak your body into what you believe a woman should look like. SRS will be as superficial as FFS or hair removal if you believe that it is. This is not about hope but about how you can become an agent of yourself. It is about recognizing what has shaped you in your past as a man, socially, intellectually and emotionally and undoing it and making peace with it. As long as you believe that you are inferior to genetic women and seek to nip and tuck to become equal you are working on a paradigm that will forever close the door to being what you believe you are.

[PaulaQ]

@DeeDee - I am not really jealous of genetic women, I know the lives they lead are often full of hardships. I watched my mom and sister's lives. My sister had a beautiful wedding, and then 25 years later her insane spouse pushed her out of a moving car! Both have struggled with discrimination.

I regret not living my life as myself, particularly since my kids have disabused me of the notion that I was ever a good father. I wasted everyone's time and hurt lots of people in the process. What a waste.

I am simply trying to come to grips with the limitations my body imposes in me. Apparently I really needed to transition. Yeah, I'd love to be biologically female, but such things are not technologically feasible. So I'll make do with clever plastic surgery and get on as best I can.

It just strikes me that those who don't believe I'm a real woman have a point. I'm just not. I'm something else. I'll have many of the visible attributes of women, and be similar hormonally, but there will always remain significant differences.

Mostly I guess I just want to feel better. This isn't some lifelong dream come true. Hopefully more like the end of a nightmare. Hopefully that's good enough.

Edit:

@Kathryn - I don't hide that I'm transgender, so women, and others know because I eventually tell them.

I'm really not trying to nip and tuck my way to beauty or social acceptance. Mostly I just want my GD to settle down to a survivable level. I think SRS will help a lot, because my penis is a significant trigger for me. So I would think some of these feelings I have might settle down a bit after that.

As for me? I know I'm a woman - I'm just one who's handicapped in many ways. I don't see any point in trying to pretend that isn't the case. Like my handicapped legs, I'll deal with it and be ok. It is what it is though.

[MatildaJ.]

Your kids telling you you suck as a parent is just the older version of the four year old screaming "I hate you" because you won't buy them the stupid toy in the check-out lane. Ask your friends if you were a good parent, if you're curious. (Personally, I only aim to be "good enough.")

[stefan37]

Why do you feel the need to disclose that you are a transitioning female? I belong to several groups and have not disclosed that I am transitioning. I have no idea what they think as no one had asked any questions. I don't volunteer any information either. Both groups treat me with respect and I am allowed to live as me. They most certainly have some clue as I get called he,she,him, her. Sometimes in the same sentence. Be yourself, own yourself and you will be accepted. But first you must accept yourself.

[LeaP]

... I'll always have some qualifier like "trans" stuck on me so that I'll never really be just a "woman." I'll always be something different - an imitation, ...




@Kathryn - I don't hide that I'm transgender, so women, and others know because I eventually tell them.

You are creating your own problem.

[samantha rogers]

Paula, I ache thinking of you like this. My heart breaks. I can only vaguely begin to imagine what you are feeling, so my suggestions would be useless, I expect. I will not even try. But please take some small measure of comfort in the love of those who do know you and the strong, brave and beautiful heart within you. Though you may not see yourself as we do, what we see is special and wonderful and fully, completely and utterly woman. And she is gorgeous.
Hugs
Sammie

[Kathryn Martin]

Paula, don't take this personal.

Sammie, do you know Paula personally? have you met her? have conversed not just online but in real life? No amount of encouragement you may impart will resolve any of the questions that plague Paula. You are making assertions which are self serving and not even touch the issues Paula is facing. I don't know Paula from a whole in the wall except what I read here. But telling someone she is "fully, utterly and completely woman" is such a load of nonsense. If she were, she'd have a uterus and ovaries, she would have been raised and socialized as a girl, and she would not come here to seek solace and advice. Ask yourself the questions that come from those facts and then ask yourself how your assurance helps in any way shape or form.

[samantha rogers]

Well Kathryn I do appreciate your candor and your honest attempt to bring your view to my attention. Thanks. As it happens I disagree with you, but you know, I have never seen the point in arguing on online boards as the only result is increased animosity. I really do thank you though for what was I am sure was a well meaning post.

[Aprilrain]

In my experience life as a woman with a mans body pretty much sucked. FFS, BA, and hair removal have pretty much fixed it so those things were hardly superficial, they were life altering!

[Persephone]

Sure, Paula, I've had that feeling just like I figure most of us that are in our situation have had at one time or another. ... Being a woman is not all about genitals nor boobs...

Feels like a little slight on my previous comment. ... This is not a dig at you, just that your message is so flippant. ... I understand your point and i'm sure it's meant kindly but it sounds like a slap in the face for all those going through painful procedures, your words are belittling.

Actually, Becky, I was trying to be helpful. I'm sorry that you feel the way that you do. It is quite possible that we define ourselves differently, but I assure you that if pain is some kind of measure of our achievement, something that I very much do not believe, then I have had my share.

I live in the real world, Becky, accepted as a woman. I don't run around with a chip on my shoulder crying "I am a tranny," and it is amazing how few people concern themselves with my genitals, so I stand by my statement.

Hugs,
Persephone.

[becky77]

I never said pain was a measure of achievement, nor did I give any disrespect to your way of life. I don't see this as a trannier than though issue?
I said I didn't appreciate you putting down anyone including myself, that does have issues with having male genitalia.
I plan to have SRS so looks like I have a chip on my shoulder and I'm not real enough.
Maybe I'm wrong and have been too sensitive.
But to me it feels like I'm having to defend against being belittled, while you are just being first careless and now nasty, why? Because I don't share your view?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Persephone nobody cares about your genitals...YOU brought up your genitals..
Its amazing how many times a woman getting srs gets told this blanket statement...."its not about genitals"...just because you like your penis doesn't mean another person does...just because its not about genitals for you doesn't mean anything to a person that is unhappy...and you just have to deal with the fact that most women don't want a penis, and lots of (most?) ts women feel incomplete without srs..

Paula ....its ok to feel inferior....its just a feeling..its just a thought... its the judgement of yourself that is the problem...
I have had to deal with my own shame issues for my whole life...it has impacted everything in my life and I've worked really hard and suffered a lot of mental health issues (primarily depression and anxiety) because of it..

I have learned over time to not judge this about myself... i keep selftalking..."ok Kaitlyn, right now you are feeling like how can you be a woman???? you did all this surgery...ugh....you are such a loser.............oh look a bird... gosh its hot outside....the Phillies suck..."..... and on i go...... those feelings are surely unpleasant but i treat them like all my other feelings and try to not elevate them to a level where they stop me from doing what i want to do..

I can't say i'm doing this 100% of the time...i still struggle sometimes...i can't say this would work for you...but i thought i'd share with you that i have similar feelings as you and what i decided to do about it..its ok to have this feeling...

[LeaP]

That's only partly fair, Kaitlyn. Paula's context was male/female physical differences, after all.

Revisiting Persephone's Oz analogy, I would like to point out that while the native (and male) denizens of Oz did indeed get recognition and not change, it was the lone girl of the group who was out of place in their world and who had to be sent home to correct things for her. I should wake from such a fevered nightmare ...

[gonegirl]

Well, transitioning and living the rest of one's life as one's true self tends to put our physical self into stark perspective. We all have different thresholds of self acceptance, as do others of us, and it's human that the latter influences the former both emotionally, and also in a practical day to day sense. Being seen and accepted (or tolerated) as a transsexual is very different from being seen and accepted as a woman.

Before I transitioned I generally felt like I was out of place in the world (like Dorothy in OZ). My mantra could very well have been There's no place like home.... There's no place like home....

[Angela Campbell]

The only thing I learned from oz was if you accidentally kill someone, you get to keep their shoes.

[Foxglove]

Paula, I can relate to what you're saying here. I've been going through a bit of a bad patch lately. The dysphoria has really been kicking in at times.

E.g., I saw a young Ann-Margret in "Stagecoach" the other day, and it just about made me cry. I don't know why. I don't know what's different lately. Normally I'd look at a gorgeous woman and say to myself, "Yeah, she's gorgeous," and that would be about it. Why all of a sudden it's killing me that I'm not a young Ann-Margret, I don't know.

Or the woman I ran into yesterday. An out-of-towner, she was asking for directions to the pharmacy. It just so happened that I ran into her again on her way back from the pharmacy and we had a little chat about the town and what I was doing there (since I'm not originally from the town myself). She was young and gorgeous and a genuinely nice person and the classiest woman I've seen in a long, long time. She certainly made me feel inadequate--like a "pretend woman", a feeling I wish would go away for good.

Incidents like this have given me a lot to think about lately. I've realized that I'm "an all-or-nothing girl": if I can't be a GG, then nothing's going to be good enough for me. And I can't be a GG, so where does that leave me?

I'm learning bit by bit not to get flustered over stuff like this. I take note of my feelings, but I try not to let them dominate me. I try to let them teach me things about myself and use that knowledge to decide realistically what I want to do.

Out full-time for a year and a half, I still haven't started HRT and have given only passing thought to SRS. I think it's important for me to recognize that, given that I'm "all-or-nothing", at the end of the day I might go through those things and still be no happier about myself than I am now.

That's the way I feel about it now. But I've learned too, that once you're out full-time, your feelings are constantly evolving. I may not always feel the way I do now. And so I believe in not pushing myself. Let things develop as they will. I don't see any need to panic. If my feelings evolve to the point where I believe further steps are necessary, that's what I'll do. I can see the possibility that they might.

At this point I don't see any need to set an agenda for myself. Other people might do that. That's OK because they're different from me. But I spent too many years not being me. I feel like I'm still getting acquainted with myself. I tell myself, "Let it come, let it come, whatever it is, let it come in its own good time."

Especially because all in all, my situation is quite good. I live in a very trans-friendly little town, and all in all I'm happier than a lot of people I've had contact with who have done HRT/SRS simply because I don't get the transphobic harassment they get. A lot of people here, knowing full well who I am, treat me as an "honorary woman", and while that's hardly ideal (given that it's not a GG's status), sometimes I wonder if maybe things aren't already as good as they're going to get for me.

In other words, I'm full of uncertainty. I'm happy in ways, I'm unhappy in ways. I don't know what kind of additional happiness I'll gain if I do this-and-that or if I don't do this-and-that. But I don't think it's going to do me any good to moan about a half-empty glass. Rather I think it better to try and remain calm, continue to feel my feelings in order to let them guide me towards a decision as to what to do about that half-emptiness.

As the Welsh referee said to the Argentine rugby player, "You don't get everything in life, man!" I have to recognize that and, since I can't have what I really want, try to decide what I can live with. It could be lots worse: I could still be cowering and whimpering in the closet.

[LeaP]

The only thing I learned from oz was if you accidentally kill someone, you get to keep their shoes.

There's more than that! First, you get to do your tormentors in! Also, things get really black-and-white once you've transitioned and you're back. There are little side lessons, too. I never knew, for example, that fairy godmothers (Glinda, in this case) were CDs. That dress!

[PaulaQ]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think most of my problem is that I'm really dysphoric over having a penis instead of a vagina. I really do believe that there is far more to a woman than her genitals - indeed I'd like to believe those weren't important. Unfortunately, I don't believe that for a second for myself (not others) - the horrible sense of wrongness that emanates from my penis, and my shame over having one don't seem to be much affected by logic.