Fun with Craigslist "Casual Encounters"

[PaulaQ]

Here's some statistics about number of active personal ads from the Dallas / Fort-Worth Craigslist Personals / Casual Encounters section.

m = man
w = woman
t = trans* (either CD, TS, or other trans*)

m4w - 10,000 ads
m4m - 10,000 ads
m4t - 1,916 ads
w4m - 1,868 ads
t4m - 1505 ads
w4w - 1,336 ads
t4t - 105 ads
t4w - 45 ads
w4t - 5 ads

So straight or gay men overwhelming advertise the most. Women, either straight or gay, have at least the same rough order of magnitude of activity, as do trans* looking for men. trans* for trans* - not very active. Women don't seem very interested in trans* with only 5 ads. (Four of them I counted were for "fully functional" trans women, one for a CD.) Trans looking for women was surprisingly inactive to me - and from glancing through the ads, lots of them were CDs.

I don't know that you can conclude a lot from this, but I thought the relative scale of the numbers in each category was interesting. Maybe it says something about Dallas / Ft. Worth?

[Katey888]

Paula - I'm sure the DFW metropolis is pretty representative of most big city conurbations - the stats are quite surprising, although I would have no expectations of what they should be, but here's what I read into them...

Males overwhelmingly outnumber all other categories in having to advertise for partners because:
- Most men are chancers, and probably reckon it's worth a punt - like 'investing' in a lottery... or...
- Most typical men are obnoxious (imho) and HAVE to advertise to find someone who doesn't know them well enough to reject them... :devil:

Just my :2c:

Katey x

[reb.femme]

I suppose my only question is, are these the same 10,000 people posting twice? :devil:

m4w - 10,000 ads
m4m - 10,000 ads

Rebecca

[Vickie_CDTV]

I'm amazed there are any w4t listings. Craigslist didn't even have an option for w4t until a few months ago if I remember correctly.

[WhisperTV]

Craigslist scares me.

[Marcelle]

Hi Paula,

I am with Katey on this one . . . I think men are more likely to advertise due to the fact they figure "what the heck . . . might as well try". You might be seeing a lower order effect of women advertising because of safety concerns.

Hugs

Isha

[PaulaQ]

I found it interesting that so few women advertise for TG. I've observed this on other sites.

Both CDs and TSs seem to have more options with men. Sadly most of you don't like men at all. And I'm unable to perform the thing the bulk of them desire from me.

[devida]

I think men are advertising because of the popularity of trans stars in internet porn. But the stats in DFW look pretty much the same as the Central Florida area. I find the number of photos of genitals on craigslist a bit overwhelming. But I guess its the thing these days.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Paula, RE: Craigslist, Be careful what you wish for.

[~Joanne~]

Craigslist is a dangerous playground to be playing in. Be careful. we don't need more horror stories here. We have enough now.

[ronny0]

The 10,000 might be a limit in their data collection, rather than the real total?

After that my take is what I have always felt in real life.

For the most part, Safety would be a major concern.
And on top of that Women don't need to advertise to find a date / partner.

[CrossJess]

Online personal's....not sure I would even want to go down that route, jeez you could be meeting any old nutter waiting to rape and kill you at least that would probably be my fate especially the way I look :straightface:, don't think I would feel safe doing that no way id rather have simple face to face asking out on a date thank you :)

What is Craigslist anyway, don't think I've heard of that in the uk??

[CrossJess]

It's an online site that allows people to spread STD's to those they would otherwise never meet.

LOL lovely! wished id never asked! :straightface:

[Beverley Sims]

Mmmm?
Next time I visit Fort Worth......

No, I don't think so. :)

[PaulaQ]

Don't forget that you can buy or sell a car AND THEN cruise for sex! You can certainly see the appeal for men...

Maybe that's the same appeal for women - they can look for a new (to them) sofa & end table, and then advertise for a partner who'll do stuff their spouse won't!

[Alice Torn]

I am not surprised! Men are not wanted or needed anymore today, and so many desperate men, is not surprising, Like RonnyO said, GG's don't have to advertise, to find attention, and guys asking them out. I have met three single guys on that, and it went ok, as i set limits they acepted. But, i have had arguments with many on there, i hads to reject, or they rejected me. Have had no success, even as a man seeking woman, also. Men just don't seem desired anymore by many GG's, unless they hazve a Harley, ot big bucks.

[Jonithan]

Perhaps the w4m are just looking for some strong chap to move the new (to them) end table / sofa.

Sorry,
joni

[PaulaQ]

@Alice - but the thing is - women do advertise for sex on Craigslist - usually though, they just want something that's harder to find out in the wild random world. But they do not much at all advertise for the TG. That doesn't seem to be something that is much desired - and if it is, it's for the same type of pornography inspired fantasy that the majority of the m4t's seek. (The one most of us TSs can't really deliver on.) The guys who advertise for us are almost all, universally, looking for a CD / TS for free - rather than paying for sex with one.

[Adriana Moretti]

I wont lie...I will scroll through the craigslist ads once in a while, just for $hit$ & giggles.....you gotta love em....they usually read like this...

Looking for sexy cd to hook up with now.
Must be passable and able to host.
I can meet afternoons, weekdays only.
( pic of sombody elses privates)

really??? So..your married obviously ...and what makes you think I want to spend 3 hours getting ready JUST to be your boy toy? ...or have $ex with a complete stranger. Sadly these type of cd's that answer these ads give us all a bad name.
This seems to be the norm..but it's kinda funny, yet pathetic...

[CrossJess]

. Men just don't seem desired anymore by many GG's, unless they hazve a Harley, ot big bucks.

Yea that seems to be the general thing, i have a lot of single guy friends desperate to have a gf and thier really lovely guys too, thing is the longer they stay single the less choosing guys are being its so sad and they usually end up being used an walked over and treated like crap just becuase they want to be loved..... Im really glad that i bat for the otherside as guys from my own findings are less picky and more up for a laugh and even reply to you and not just ignore you, its like my straight friends say " your so lucky jessie you have so many single guys to choose from" in some ways thier right but there is also a lot of gays guys that are real jerks and just use you for sex or what ever, heaven knowns i dated a few of them before i found mr right

[PaulaQ]

@Adriana - the ones that get me are the ones looking to hookup with a TS:

Totally average, married guy (see included dick pic)
Looking for totally passable, petite, young, pretty TS top
Always wanted to do this
NSA
Must be able to host
Please no Pros

Ironically enough, even though I'm a top, I'm too old, and can't do the one thing they really want, at least not with original factory equipment. (Assuming I wanted to be used like that - which I do not.)

The m4w ads sort of make me feel better though - they really don't, for the most part, treat genetic women much better. Thing is - they really have no clue how rare the person is they are all looking for. I feel fairly certain that at any given time on Craigslist, there are 10x as many guys looking for TS girls who fit the description above as there are trans women in the city who'd fit the bill. Must be frustrating!

@CrossJess - Did your CDing ever cause problems with other gay men? I've noticed, as a trans woman in the gay community, that my boobs may as well emit an invisible force field that repels gay men. The few who do get through it are ultimately repelled when they find out that my junk is non-functional. They are nice to me though, which is great - I've made some good friends. I know there's guys down in this part of town who like girls like me - but for whatever reason, I only seem to attract the seriously psychotic ones.

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

I have done the CL thing, and still do from time to time for a casual hookup. (I am careful, however). The responses I get fall into basically two categories. Either I get a response that is at least semi-decent, we exchange a bit of information, they are nice, they describe what they want, we go back and forth a bit, it's mutually consensual, and it ends up very nice.

Then there are the responses that are very demanding, or dominating, and I simply refuse to put myself in the situation of being in a sexual situation with someone who acts like a complete boorish lout in an online setting. If you are going to act this way over CL or email, why should I expect anything else if we were to meet (which never happens, BTW).

And I do CL because I dislike the bar scene, plus there are no LGBT-friendly bars locally, so I might be really taking a risk walking into a straight bar. And dating sites are too expensive, with zero results to this point, so CL it is.

So, speaking to the larger point raised in this thread, I can totally see the points, that men tend to objectify the people they are trying to attract, and it shows in the ads they post. In my case, in my ad, the first sentence states that I am a male-to-female cross-dresser, so with any responses I get, the men know what they are getting. (Again, I am careful).


Amy M. Jackson

[NavyM2F_WAM]

I met my soon-to-be ex-wife and my possibly-future girlfriend online (the latter on Craigslist), so online dating is not as horrible as everyone makes it out to be. Just be careful who you talk to and what you post. Since I have almost always been shy around girls (never would go up and talk in person) and have had a huge "fear" of rejection, online dating was the route for me.

[Michelle789]

This is the downside of living in a culture where we date as opposed to arranged marriages. Then again in an arranged marriage culture, much of the desirability of a man or a woman is based on the desirability of the parents.

I think that people in general, both men and women, tend to have very high expectations for a partner.

Most men want a woman who is
young
petite
nice hourglass shape
nice rear end and boobs
will be his sex toy
will do whatever he wants
same religion
same drinking / smoking habits
same or lower income class
someone you can have a conversation with
wants to have kids

Most women want a man who
has lots of money
dominant personality, yet sensitive at the same time
someone you can have a conversation with
same religion
same drinking / smoking habits
wants to have kids
nice muscular body
nice penis size

Do you see the pattern? We go seeking that perfect mate that has everything we want. We get disappointed when we find out that they don't give us everything we want, or for that matter nothing that we want. We pretend to be that person that our partner says they want so we can win over their heart, and then we slowly show our true colors because we were just putting on an act to get the girl/guy?

We place too much emphasis on having good looks, lots of money, good personality, great conversationalist, religion, kids, family values, and probably lots of things I didn't even mention here. Oh, and don't forget, must be an overall good person. The guy must be dominant and protect me from danger, but he must never use violence to get his way with me. The girl must be smokin' hot, but must never flirt with any other guys.

Yeah, I do see a pattern here. One more thing. Lots of guys think they're richer than they really are. Lots of girls think they're hotter than they really are.

What makes it even worse. If we raise our standards, we get disappointed, and therefore hurt. If we lower our standards, we still get hurt because we were just pretending to like someone and their lower standards. You lose either way. Maybe relationships should be taken with a grain of salt. Maybe we're better off living with a model that relationships are just for fun. Maybe our system of laws and marriages causes lots of problems.

Maybe lots of the problem is the societal construct that a woman must look pretty to get a man, and a man must have money to get a woman. Maybe the system paying women only 65 cents to the dollar that every makes is the problem. Or how about in the old days when women were just expected to stay home. I think it's time for equal rights, equal responsibilities, and that starts with equal pay for equal work, and equal opportunity for all.

Maybe what I just said was about equal opportunity is wishful thinking, and you might tell me that I have the maturity of a 17 year old. But I know at least one person on this forum who will argue otherwise, that it's most people who have the maturity of a 17 year old. Maybe expecting too much from a partner, and pretending to be what your partner wants to get her/him, is wishful thinking.

[CrossJess]

@CrossJess - Did your CDing ever cause problems with other gay men?.

Ok a bit of a long reply.

No because i,m always dressed as a girl, im not the normal crossdresser im not that keen on wearing bras, pantyhose, makeup and rarely wear dresses or high heels though i do wear a lot of wedges but my style is always been womans skinny jeans, denim short shorts, denim mini skirts, very bright leggings and girly tops and very bright over knee socks and my hair tied up like a girl etc, but guys seem to be quite keen on it, my bf was attracted to me becuase he thinks i looks cute in girls clothes and suits me better than guys clothes.

Ive never done online dating but ive been in gay clubs and guys come up and say hello and chat and buy me drinks but i dont present my self as a woman as i like being a guy who is just very very girly and guys instantly see that thats me, the guys i attract are usually the well built stacked gym guys, which is lucky as its my type me being a skinny guy and all, i love real tough manly guys my bf being one, i like to be made to feel safe and protected by guys, the only thing that has put some guys off me in the past is the fact that i am to girly with my personalty, i do tend to act like a 16 year old girl at times, luckly thats another thing that my bf loves about me so its all cool xx

[Taylor Ray]

Yes, I too am very familiar with Craigslist. I am always VERY CAREFUL. How about this for a statistic:

95% of online CL interactions are fantasy based and result in absolutely nothing.

5% of online CL interactions are reality based and have the potential to result in a date.

After screening the 5% of possible dates, less than 1% end up happening in reality.

As far as the original post is concerned:

So, Freud was right?

[Alice Torn]

Michelle, Lots of truth to what you said about how modern society makes relationships. The guy has the superman costume on, and the GG has a supergirl costume on, and after marriage, they have to take them off sooner or later, then reality hits, and hard work. Maybe another reason i ama 60 yr old bachelor with cats.

[Sc0rp10N]

As far as the stats, their disproportion seems about right I guess. I would say men use the big CL more for the ease of getting the message out into the world they're looking and the possibility of an easy, quick and "NSA" hookup. Not because they're obsolete or undesired. Men will analyze toward problem solving and simple solutions even without knowing they're doing it. And CL really is the simplest answer with the least amount of work and not that much risk (not considering the STD thing). But it can be a bad idea depending on the situation. However, the worst experience my wife and I have ever had is not making a match communicating thru email or getting stood up. We still have each other, so no biggie. Also, we spend some time to get to know the person a bit better, if other things they say don't add up, we kindly decline. We're picky, but not so much about looks, we want to find good people. For that matter, we usually look to play with couples and only as our straight/him, bicurious/her selves. The cd thing NEVER enters our swinging. And its a relatively rare event for us anyway. So including the stand up, we've had about a 60% success rate. We're safe with all new people, but if we've been fwb's long enough, we let it get a little lax, especially if we know them well and they're married too and don't play that often either. Its as comfortable as you could be with any 2 person relationship that didn't have any legally bound situations such as marriage. But, for the most part, we meet friends on another website that isn't free. The cost does tend to weed out some the negativity. You always have to be careful. I think we're as careful as we can be with still trying to enjoy swinging the best we can. Just my 2 cents.

[Kate T]

The first 2 numbers (m4w, m4m) look like upper limits to me. I mean every other number is given to an integer level whereas it is pure coincidence that m4w and m4m are EXACTLY the SAME at 10000??

[ronny0]

Not sure if this is on topic or not......
I was up late, not able to get back to sleep. Trying to feed my cold.
I haven't looked at CL for maybe a year, then I was trying to sell something.
Now days would really fear trying to use it to meet / meet up....
Tonight I looked through many of the w4t t4t t4w in my area, and most all are just people looking for a crude hookup.
Lots of the listings are IMO disgusting.....

[PaulaQ]

@ronny0 - how many ads in w4t as opposed to m4t in your area?

And no argument that most of the ads are looking for hookups, and most of the male ads are quite disgusting, even if you aren't averse to the particular bit of anatomy that these ads all seem to highlight.

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

I usually fight the creepiness of people by exercising some control over the ebb and flow
of the subsequent conversation. My CL ad does not promise a hookup, and really nothing
until I tell the person that I am on the way over does. If someone comes across creepy
when they answer my ad, they don't get a response. Even if they do get a response,
if they start acting creepy, the responses stop. I find it interesting that once I stop
responding to people, I never get the angry letters asking why I'm not talking to them.
At that point, I chalk it up to perhaps they weren't really interested, and I move on.

Using this means of separating the worthy meetings from the chaff of creepiness, I have
had four encounters, and they have all been very fulfilling experiences. As advice, I would
tell people to be safe, and to arrange whatever screening you feel is necessary to make
sure that you won't have to deal with creepy CL trolls. :)


Amy M. Jackson

[Pink Susan]

I would like to , haven't yet , too frightened I suppose

[Carrie R]

Meeting people is overrated! Cats are awesome!

[CrossJess]

Meeting people is overrated! Cats are awesome!

True I love our cat but they don't give you hugs when your upset or cold at night, buy you lovely things, do things for you that's special to only you, text in the middle of the day saying "I love you and miss you"

[Judith96a]

Males overwhelmingly outnumber all other categories in having to advertise for partners because:
- Most men are chancers, and probably reckon it's worth a punt - like 'investing' in a lottery... or...
- Most typical men are obnoxious (imho) and HAVE to advertise to find someone who doesn't know them well enough to reject them... :devil:


I suspect, also, that women have more regard for their own safety. Men tend to think that they can handle any situation (assuming that they think at all!)

[ronny0]

@ronny0 - how many ads in w4t as opposed to m4t in your area?.

All South Florida, All Personals
m4t 1817
t4t 100
w4t 22

[PaulaQ]

I guess it just goes to show that women don't dig CD/TS - or at least not very many of them seek us out. No surprise to anyone on this forum, I'm sure.

Guess this helps explain why we lie about who we are to our SO's. Those are pretty lonely statistics if you don't like dudes.

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

In thinking about this, I keep going back to what I said about relationships and what GGs are inherently and instinctively looking for in
a relationship with a man. When a man goes into cross-dressing and transgender experiences, he is in some manner rejecting some of
the aspects of manhood that GGs are looking for, whether that is for a hookup or a long-term relationship.

Of course, this does not pertain to all men, or all relationships. This forum is full of people who have told us about SOs who enjoy their
cross-dressing husband, or the transgendered individual in their lives. However, there is also evidence within the threads in these forums
that tends to support what I am saying here. :)


Amy M. Jackson

[heatherdress]

Don't try to get much out of non-verified numbers. Craigs List is what it is and everything in it or about it, to include usage numbers, can't be accepted as factual or truthful.

[PaulaQ]

@heatherdress - what other conclusion can you draw from the numbers posted from different areas? Women don't seem to advertise for TG partners on CL. They advertise for everything else, so it would suggest that there's just not much demand from them for TG partners. I wouldn't try to draw very precise statistics from this data - there are double ads, cross posted ads, all sorts of things that make an exact accounting difficult, and of course a fair amount of fantasy and BS. Still, there's a massive difference in w4t and everything else, and I think that just has to be real.

[Lorileah]

I like the "I am always safe" replies. Yeah, I used to play that way until one time no matter what precautions... If you like Vegas you will love blind hookups. I agree that the majority of these hookups never happen. I have a friend though who uses it quite often to meet a man for a one-off thing. I have more respect for myself (now). Hey, at least when you meet in a bar you have others around, you have your car, and you at least have some reason to be interested other than sex. Oh and guys who are looking for TSs? They just want the thrill of the taboo in their mind. No self respecting TS will become a hooker or a wh0re after surgery unless they were doing that before.

[PaulaQ]

Oh and guys who are looking for TSs? They just want the thrill of the taboo in their mind. No self respecting TS will become a hooker or a wh0re after surgery unless they were doing that before.

Well, they also want what the pro's provide for free. They generally want someone who looks like a pro, functions like a pro, but doesn't charge. Lots of luck boys!

My personal favorites are the whiney ads that complain "how hard is it to get one of you b!tches to come meet me!!!!" Gosh, can't imagine why that guy has issues getting a date! (Newsflash to men: the world does not owe you free Heineken and Oral Sex.)

Really, though, my point in this thread is that there's seemingly demand for everyone else, from everyone else, except w4t. And the w4t who do advertise want the same thing as most of the dudes - a girl with a biological strap on.

[amyjacks2014]

My personal favorites the whiney ads that complain "how hard is it to get one of you b!tches to come meet me!!!!" Gosh, can't imagine why that guy has issues getting a date! (Newsflash to men: the world does not owe you free Heineken and Oral Sex.)

^.^

An example of someone who would not get a reply from me.


Amy M. Jackson

[ronny0]

Meeting people is overrated! Cats are awesome!

I am allergic to cats (as many people are) plus I don't think my birds would like the competition.