Got me thinking

[KatieGG]

I recently met a woman who like me married her high school sweetheart who happens to be a crossdresser. She has a slightly different outlook on the subject than I do though, when she talks about it she seems tired maybe a little jaded. One thing she said really stuck with me, she told me at first she didn't mind it even enjoyed it, helping him put together outfits and helping him with his make up and having fun seeing the end result, sounds a lot like me. Then she said over time it stopped being fun and started being more of a chore, she started wondering what it would have been like to be married to a "real man" (her words not mine) she told me she grew to hate that side of him and even found herself less attracted him and that it has caused some major problems in their marriage.

Now I never once thought of my husband as less of a man because of this and the fact that we discovered and went down this road together has made us closer it is something that we do together but he doesn't let being a crossdresser define him and we don't let it define our marriage. I can't imagine feeling the way she does.

Those of you that have wives that are supportive do you feel like she has lost interest or willingness to be involved over the years? I would also like to hear what other GGs here thing about it. G

[Alice Torn]

I ,as a single, ,can only relate, that all the women I wanted to date, that i told about it, were turned off, and said i would have to quit it, before they would consider me, and that they wanted a real man, too.

[Jenniferathome]

Katie, my wife is the same today as when I told her. She realizes that "it is" and that's ok with her. She neither invites it or refuses it. "It" sometimes happens. I can state, that like you, I feel we are closer as a result of my coming clean. Certainly there can be no more secrets I would choose to keep.

[Princess Grandpa]

My wife and I discovered this part of me together. She very much enjoys this. She has helped me stretch my boundaries taking me from a dude in panties to a dude in a dress to Rita. All this within a few months of coming to understand and accept that I have these needs. After we discovered this side of myself I found my way to this site. In response to my introductory post someone commented that they hope she didn't change her mind as time passes.

I thought that a very odd thing to say. After reading these forums for a bit I found so many posts that said something like "my previously supportive wife", I started getting worried. At this point that is my biggest fear in life. I fear one day she will come and say "I tried to like it but I'm just lying to myself" or "it was fun but I'm over it now" or something to that affect.

With her encouragement, Rita has developed into a very important part of my life. Her acceptance and love of Rita has brought a new completely new dynamic to our marriage. I don't know how I would cope if she were to suddenly realize she doesn't like all this after all. I don't think I could give this up at this point. After this freedom going to a DADT relationship would be nearly as difficult.

Frequently I worry she will decide she needs a "real man". This is not a role I am capable of filling any more. I am surely not a real woman but I'm not a real man either. All I can do is hope her feelings don't ever change. If they do I hope we can communicate effectively enough to find a working solution.

Hug
Rita

[kimdl93]

I shouldn't speak for my wife, but since she's not on the site, I'll try. Context: she knew about my CDing before we married, to the extent of stockings and panties and underdressing. It's only been a few years since I started dressing completely and she seemed to be ok with it until recently. Then she had a minor meltdown. Most of the familiar old questions re emerged. This time, before even telling me, she went to a TG supportive counselor who put her fears and concerns to rest very quickly. She came back feeling very good about our marriage, hopeful that she could accommodate me and my needs, and willing to work on compromise satisfactory to both of us.

We are still in something I like to consider reset mode. It's of course not all about me and my gender issues. She's also in a high pressure job, had a daughter marry recently and then there's the early stages of peri menopause...a lot for anyone to handle, physically and emotionally. I'm trying not to add to the burden.

[Teresa]

The core of my Cding is wanting to share it with my wife so when I told her twenty years ago it made me feel so close and intimate with her. She has caught me twice and wasn't happy but that is the nearest I've come to any involvement. The feelings opened up in me were not returned so I felt totally rejected and unloved reducing me to suicidal thoughts and then therapy and Prozac.
It's taken another twenty years and the help of the members on the forum to achieve an acceptance of CDing and a loving relationship with my wife.
So sadly I have not known a supportive relationship and very little involvement, things are getting better but now the clock is ticking so perhaps it's nearly too late.

[ReineD]

One thing she said really stuck with me, she told me at first she didn't mind it even enjoyed it, helping him put together outfits and helping him with his make up and having fun seeing the end result, sounds a lot like me. Then she said over time it stopped being fun and started being more of a chore, she started wondering what it would have been like to be married to a "real man" (her words not mine) she told me she grew to hate that side of him and even found herself less attracted him and that it has caused some major problems in their marriage.

I think this is common. I've heard GGs say this, and CDers also relate it in their posts.

I think the issue is that most GGs have no clue what it's about, so at first it is easy to see it as a fun, "out of the box" thing that might even be a bit sexy. They still very much see their husbands as men who just put on women's clothes. But then with encouragement, the crossdressers sometimes go into Pink Fogs (there are different degrees of this). The crossdressing increases and it can sometimes seem as if it is taking over. Another difficulty is keeping it all a secret from most people the couple knows, or perhaps selected individuals. This can be stressful.

Also, some GGs see it as a phase and become (unpleasantly?) surprised when they discover that it isn't. Being "girly" does get old for a lot of GGs who are married to CDers who get a big kick out of doing this. Most GGs that I know move out of their "girly" stages as young women. Or, maybe the CDer gets to a point where he can't or won't perform sexually without being dressed and this can make a wife feel as if she is an accessory.

Another factor is the age-old phenomena of moving through the various relationship stages (from the romantic stage, to the power struggle stage, to the "me" stage, etc), with all the problems this brings if couples aren't wonderfully adept at communication. What might have been fun in the past is no longer fun now because both partners have developed different ways of looking at things. They sense there is a disconnect, they're not good at talking about it, and each partner develops his or her own "story" about what the other is thinking.

So I'm not surprised that the CDing loses its luster after some time, just like many other aspects of a couple's relationship, if each partner doesn't continually address their differences and changing needs.

[Di]

at first she didn't mind it even enjoyed it, helping him put together outfits and helping him with his make up and having fun seeing the end result, sounds a lot like me. Then she said over time it stopped being fun and started being more of a chore, she started wondering what it would have been like to be married to a "real man" (her words not mine) she told me she grew to hate that side of him and even found herself less attracted him and that it has caused some major problems in their marriage.
I have a friend in our local group that more or less said the same thing....her reasons it became all about the girl side/ never about them as a couple, she felt like a prop. If family or work things came up...the hubby would pout and act like an jerk because it cut into girl time making everyone miserable.They just split up after the kids finished school....and after the hubby was insisting his wife find him a safe male to be with to know what it felt like to be with a guy....that was the last straw but to hear him talk....it was she once was supportive then she changed ....ahhh no it was because you are a selfish jerk. Has nothing to do with cding as a jerk is just a jerk.



I never once thought of my husband as less of a man because of this and the fact that we discovered and went down this road together has made us closer it is something that we do together but he doesn't let being a crossdresser define him and we don't let it define our marriage. Ditto here...we keep it open and honest and about us both. That can make for a unique closeness.

[Laura912]

Katie, my wife remains equally supportive. She does not take an aggressive role but will occasionally ask if I would like a piece of old clothing. We, also, have a good time joking and teasing about the existence of Laura. For example, yesterday when I was out of things to do she asked, "Do you want to sit around in a dress, eat Bon-Bons, and watch TV?"

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Katie, My wonderful wife of 50+ years was ok at one time but now it's a DA/DT kind of thinggie
She knows that I dress but she just doesn't want to see it, I know my boundaries and stay within them and life is great.

[Megan b]

My wife grew to hate this side of me. Even when I was not dressed she still saw Megan. After 22 years of marriage (21 happy for me), we separated and then divorced. We were married for 24 years on paper but I don't really count the last 2yrs. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with. I did love my ex wife very much but now she's just a stranger, someone I used to know. On the one hand I don't blame her, she didn't sign up for this but on the other hand why did she stay so long, if she was just going to leave. Sorry to be a downer

[JessMe]

I can't really speak as far as a marriage goes yet, but I did tell my girlfriend 2 or 3 years ago and we're still going strong. :) ...The formula for a successful relationship really varies, not only from relationship to relationship, but even changes a little within the same relationship from time to time. No wonder it's so hard to hold one together (even without CD-ing)!
As for myself and my girlfriend, I think the "secret" is that we got together after we both came away from crappy long-term relationships so we know what NOT to do, and we communicate with one another at the first sign of trouble rather than waiting for the situation to boil over. We had "the talk" and it was made clear that 1.) I can't and won't stop. 2.) If she doesn't want to see it/hear about it, then all she needs to do is say so. 3.) I won't let it define me or our relationship. And 4.) I love her and only her.
So far this works for both of us. :) ...I sometimes actually get asked for "girl time" too!

[Kate T]

Context, my wife and I were married in 1996, we have 3 kids at school and preschool and I told her about my CD'ing a little over 3 years ago.

I agree with Reine in that I think some partners, particularly younger ones it seems, see it as a bit of a fun / exciting game, although I would also add that some partners seem to almost force themselves to have fun to help the CD to be happy. The problem with both these approaches is that yeah, after a while the game is no longer fun or exciting and it becomes a chore. The CD rarely helps the situation as they interpret the encouragement as a sort of green light to take things further and further and tend to become self focused on the CD'ing and neglect their partners needs.

My personal opinion is that the relationships that seem to be the least rocky and stand the test of time are where the CD is conscious of the pink fog and ensures that he maintains a focus on his partners needs, AND the partner is strong enough to speak up and say "Hey, I know you like this BUT I'm just not comfortable with it because ......"

My wife has always been very accepting. I would say that if anything her acceptance has grown in the last 3 years as we have explored things, gotten used to stuff etc. I would like to say that is all down to my caring and understanding nature (Yeah, I'm kidding OK) but I know a major contributor is her strong character and her willingness to pull me up and go, nah-uh, not going to happen on my watch mate.

I also agree with Reine that many married couples, especially younger ones, seem to think that for some reason your partner and your relationship is some sort of universal constant and never changes. Life changes, that is sort of the point, and a married couple need to keep on communicating and working on their relationship because the stuff that they were happy with when they got married may not be what they are happy with or want now. People grow, I think they either grow apart or if they communicate well they grow closer together. CD'ing is just another element of a relationship and if a couple is not communicating then it becomes another area where they grow apart, if they are then it can be an area where they grow together.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

KatieGG, I'm one of the GG's who got tired of it over time. My H is very considerate, like yours, but it still happened. Why? It's boring, that's why. I started to feel like my H was stunted in some teenage girl time warp and even though time matured my goals and interests, my H continued, and still does, to find his greatest joy in playing dress up. So maybe I outgrew it and he didn't? This definitely affected my seeing him as a 'real man' but now I wonder if that's really about the dressing, or my disappointment that he still does it all these years later. It sort of seems...immature?? Anyway, the whole thing still irks me in a hundred ways but I've come a long way from wanting to leave after joining here. It's not defining how I see him as much, and I'm trying to shift my thinking to what Jennifer said - 'it just is.' I'll never get it and I think I'll always believe he's a little nuts for it, but he's MY nuts guy :)

Anyway, thanks for putting this question out there as it doesn't get mentioned enough here that crossdressing can become boring and repetitive for the rest of us. People inevitably change in a relationship, but the crossdressing activity remains a constant throughout and sometimes it can feel like a part of your H, and maybe your marriage, is forever stuck. That can wear thin if you don't communicate well.

Edit: Thought I'd better clarify that the immaturity was about my H. He's becoming more adult about the whole thing since we started communicating better...but otherwise, many of the members here (Adina, Jennifer etc) are some of the most mature, together and kind men I've talked to in a long while :)

[Farrah]

My wife just found out a month or so ago. Right now, she loves the new me and so do I. I hope she never feels this way. However, I told her, when it begins to be too much, to let me know and we can dialogue about whatever is bothering her. So far, no issues!! Man, I so love that woman!!

[Kate T]

Something Tink brought up about CD's essentially not growing up and I think in most cases she is right. As much as I appreciate the kind comments Tink I will admit to having a bit of a "dress up" phase (OK, so I still do occasionally play dress up much to the chagrin of my wife and eldest daughter though our second daughter quite enjoys it :))

Whilst I think many factors play a role in "growing up" and maturing out of that phase, and in no way being a criticism of either yourself Tink or your husband, personally I think that something that helps a CD mature is to actually go out in public dressed. When the CD goes out in public suddenly they have to take responsibility for their choice to present a female appearance. They may suffer prejudice because they are a CD, they may be subject to the less obvious but still common chauvinism towards women generally, they need to plan, don't go to that area alone at night, always have a plan on how to get to a safe environment. Essentially they start to realise that being female isn't about dressing up in pretty clothes. THEN they start to mature. Well, I hope at any rate :)

[Teresa]

Adina you may have a good point there, I have only driven out at night dressed but chickened out at going for a walk but I dressed carefully and not OTT so I could hopefully blend in. Maybe I was being more realistic than mature !

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

Perhaps this can be of some help. A study was once done on couples who had affairs, and it was discovered that men are more angry over the physical aspect of the affair, and women are more angry over the threat to the relationship. By no means does this apply to every man and woman, but that was the predominate result.

What this also means is that women seem to invest a lot into the relationship itself, and why? What has a man always brought to the relationship, going back to older generations, and beyond. Why is traditional marriage the way it is? the answer is that the relationship is about security and generating the next generation of the family. It is a part of our being as biological selves, it is an instinct. So when a GG is saying she feels like her husband is less of a man for cross-dressing, she is saying that she doubts her husband can give her the security necessary, or perhaps provide for her and the family.

Again, I am not saying this is everyone, and even in this post, we have seen people who are very supportive, whether it has been from the beginning, or a recent discovery, and I have not even touched other reasons for disapproval, such as religion. In a lot of cases, also demonstrated here, communication is key. It allows a cross-dresser to discover if this is an issue with the people they live with, and if so, what if anything can be done to mitigate the issue.

I apologize if some of this rankles some people. At the end of e day, we are biological beings, and some of that has survived past the evolution of humanity to today. We are now biological beings with the time, energy, and resources to be able to consider alternatives for straight up male & female relationships, and I think that is a good thing. It allows me to be a 46-yr old single male with small prospects for getting a wife, yet I will not be shunned out of society for it. It allows people to delve into other forms of sexuality and gender, such as we experience.

Again, my apologies if this is too ranty, or if it offends people. I figure I will stop here before BOTH the inner psychologist and the inner historian in me get working. :)


Amy M. Jackson

[Marcelle]

Hi Katie,

Great post and it got me thinking so I discussed this last night with my wife. I asked her if she saw me as "less of a man" since I started dressing and Isha has become a bit of a permanent fixture in our lives. She thought for a moment and said "no". While she agrees that it is sometimes hard to see the man she married through the make-up she also said it is just a exterior as the "guy" is still there. Perhaps it has something to do with how late in life I came to this (dressing that is) as I only started last August when I came out to my wife. We had spent 24 years together and being in an uber-masculine military world she has seen the alpha male exterior far more than Isha. There are parts of me she will never know about given my employment and to be honest she does not want to know about them. She knows I am me and that I love her regardless of how I am dressed.

The other thing is that we talk about CDing once a week whether we have anything to say or not. Depending on the topic she may prefer to speak to girl me or boy me. The other thing is that I never let her forget she is the love of my life, my focus and my best friend (not girl friend but best friend). I compliment her on her looks, support her in her career and am there when she needs a shoulder to cry on or a sounding board to vent to . . . as she does for me. Since exploring Isha she has said that I am happier and quite surprising more the man she first met (happy, go lucky and fun).

Will all this change and will she get tired of it? It is possible but then again I have moved out of the "teen girl dress-up loop" and when I dress it is just to be . . . I just dress a bit nicer. We share clothes (shoes and tops) and do some online buying together for mutual agreement (our tastes are similar) and have a bit of fun trying things on when they arrive. We give honest opinions to each other and sometimes swap particular items. Sometimes if I am doing "Isha au natural" at home (wig, clothes . . . no make-up) we still talk as we always do about the day, may vent about work, watch a movie, just hang . . . last night we shared a cigar and brandy on the deck while I was "en femme" but, we were still husband and wife.

Hugs

Isha

[Kate Simmons]

I think that a good deal of it depends on who we are trying to please Hon. :)

[KatieGG]

I think the fact that I never been into the whole super macho kind of men (I actually find it as a turnoff) helps contribute to how I feel about his dressing. There is something kind of sexy about a man who not only has a softer side but isn't afraid to show it. I think the only way it would be a problem for me is if he went completely full time or if he wanted to become a woman. Right now he dresses in some form a few times a week and we try to go out at least once a month usually to a bar a few towns over where we are pretty tight with the lady that owns it.

The whole "not a real man" thing depends on how you define what a man is I guess because that has never been an issue for me. My husband provides and protects me, he makes me feel like a princess and always shows me how much he loves me. I feel 100% safe with him if we are say walking in a bad part of the city whether he is dressed like a man or wearing a dress. I see him as a man no matter what he is wearing because it's just clothes it doesn't change who he is.

Maybe one day I will grow tired of it, maybe it won't be fun for me at some point. But right now it is still fun for me, we have a lot of fun with it whether we are out in public or just having fun at the house acting dumb and playing around.

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

That's kinda how I feel myself. I have told people that ask
how I feel about gender, up until recently, I would say that
I was comfortable enough with my manhood that I don't need
it to be on display all the time.

Most recently however, I have changed. I am a woman,
and I will stand by that. As a woman, of course, I understand
cross-dressing, and as long as a man could take care of me,
and love me, I would be honored to be with him.


Amy M. Jackson

[glynnis]

I am the luckiest man or should I say gurl in the world,my wife total supports my dressing and often buys me lingerie and clothes.

[Kiva]

We are High School sweeties too, and have been together for 37 years. 32 married. One night after a few years of marriage, and some rum, I told my wife. She was totally cool....then, much like your friend, it seemed to become a chore.

Fast fwd a few years, and we became parents. (Time to put away childish things) It became that subject that was never discussed, and along with 10 years of denial on my part. Then....the dam broke, and I spent a week dressed while my wife and son were out of state.

I've learned to become content with my life and holding to her conditions, ie no photos online, no dressing out of the house, etc., we've reached a compromise...mostly DADT. I love my wife with all my heart, and she does me as well. We'll make it for the long haul I'm sure. I doubt I'll ever quit dressing. I really don't want to quit, and my life is really a good one with a loving, close family, career, etc., not worth throwing all that away over a desire.

My wife, too, married a man, but more importantly, she married her best friend!

[khaleesie]

Those of you that have wives that are supportive do you feel like she has lost interest or willingness to be involved over the years? I would also like to hear what other GGs here thing about it. G

Well, since I've only recently included my wife in this part of my life, I can't really answer that with anything other than conjecture. However, I have to believe that she never actually really liked it. She dealt with it until the novelty wore off and/or she realized she really didn't like it. I can only hope that my wife doesn't do this. However, she's known for decades, even though she's only recently been included. I've tried to include her for years but couldn't, until recently. So far she's OK with it.......

[dizzy]

Wow Katie, was you listening to my wife talk to me, this is kinda weird because I heard mainly the same thing just the other day from my wife. She has been supportive allowing me to wear most anything and has even purchased clothes, makeup and jewelry for me for my birthdays and Christmas presents. She even allowed me to try on her wedding dress in front of her at one time and seemed to really be having fun with this other side of me and helped and fostered it to grow. She has known and I have been doing it in front of her for over 15 years now with little to no issues. Suddenly one day just last week we are talking and she tells me she wishes I was more like a "normal man" and acted like a "normal man" which really took me by surprise.

[Jules Spirit]

Now I never once thought of my husband as less of a man because of this and the fact that we discovered and went down this road together has made us closer it is something that we do together but he doesn't let being a crossdresser define him and we don't let it define our marriage. I can't imagine feeling the way she does.
G

This is how I feel about my husband being a crossdresser. I could not have said it better. I will add that for me, the more time that has past, the more I enjoy my husband, regardless of how he presents.

I think one thing you hit on that should be reiterated is that your husband and you do not define him or your relationship by him being a crossdresser. Yes, my husband sometimes dresses as a girl but he also does and is many other things. I think both crossdressers and their partners need to see that cross dressing is just an aspect of a person. So many of you spend so much time focusing on cross dressing that it seems to me like your missing out on appreciating all of what makes up a whole person.

[Rhonda Jean]

Absolutely what happened in our marriage. But let me add a little retrospective.

I WAS less of a man! I don't think you can become more and more and more of a "woman" and stay the same amount a man. Particularly if she knows everything. I think I was still a good husband, a good provider, a good father. But, there's no one on the planet that would have said I was as much of a man. Not compared to what I once was, and especially not compared to other men. There was little common ground between me and other men. That's the way I intended it. Although I do blame her in a huge way for the way it went down, there's no way I could honestly say I was still the man I used to be, or that I was all the man that her friend's husband's were. It just wasn't me. I didn't look like them, I didn't act like them, I didn't have the same interests as them. Some of that was good, as far as being a "good person" went, but by any measuring stick that measured manliness, I wasn't on the stick. And, it was getting worse.

Let me say,too, as I've said many times on this forum. I would have and could have quit. I loved her and would have done anything for her, including quitting. I already know what the prevailing opinion is on this, so don't bother.

There are a few encouraging wives on here, and for them a crossdressing husband is just fine. Maybe preferred. That is a wonderful, wonderful thing when that happens. But for the other huge majority of women, if you asked them to describe their perfect man, how many of you think you're even close? I'm not talking about being loyal, honest, etc.. I'm talking about you fitting the picture of what everyone thinks of when they think of a man. The stereotypical man. It's a stereotype for a reason.

Probably the further in the closet you are, the higher on the manliness scale you are. If you're so far in the closet that you're wife doesn't even know, then this discussion doesn't apply to you. More than likely, one way or another, that'll change some day and this discussion will apply to you.

Some wives are so hardcore "traditional" that any tiny deviation destroys the whole "man" image. I don't get that, except that once it starts it's probably not going to stop (progressing). Maybe they're the smart ones. To me it seems so ridiculous when wives throw a fit over the tiniest of things... panties, shaved legs, longer hair, colored hair, polished toes, groomed brows, longer nails, earrings...piddly things that I don't think amount to anything. Then I take another look at that list of piddly things. Are these things that a "real man" does? Even if you find some loophole and say yes, look at those things as a group. Most of us do most of those things. We do them for the sole purpose of being feminine. That by admission makes them less masculine. Less of a man.

I'm not downing anybody. I'm guilty. I've also come to terms with a lot of things. I don't blame anybody for putting the best face on this thing we do. Be honest with yourself about who you are, even if you can't be honest with anyone else. We're all so good at the excuses. "Swimmers shave their legs." "Even football players have long hair and earrings." "It's just underwear." I could go on, because I'm used them all. I wasn't fooling anybody. I didn't have long hair and earrings because I wanted to be like a football player, and I didn't shave my legs because I liked to swim. I wanted to be a woman, and she knew it quite well.

I've gotta get off this and go to bed. I'm in a mood!

[Rhonda Jean]

[QUOTE= So many of you spend so much time focusing on cross dressing that it seems to me like your missing out on appreciating all of what makes up a whole person.[/QUOTE]

You said a mouthful, there. Nerve struck.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Rhonda Jean, that's a very honest post. I wish more here would acknowledge that what they do DOES affect how others see them, including a spouse, as you ARE different men for it. Honesty is all we GG's want. Pretending you can behave more and more like a woman around your wife while expecting her to still see you as her 'manly man' and yes, even enjoy your crossdressing, is delusional. Sorry, but such a situation will be incredibly rare and anyone telling themselves that this is the norm and they deserve this from their wife is in deep denial about what most heterosexual women are wanting in a partner.

Balance, people - that's what we should all be striving for. If crossdressing is all you think about and it's slowly changing who you are, don't expect your old life or the people in it to follow along with you. If your wife is tired of your dressing, maybe you're dressing too much!

[PaulaQ]

If crossdressing is all you think about and it's slowly changing who you are, don't expect your old life or the people in it to follow along with you. If your wife is tired of your dressing, maybe you're dressing too much!

One of the implicit assumptions in this thread, it seems to me, is that the male side of a CD is the "correct one", and the female side is "the problem." Sometimes exactly the opposite is the case, and the problem isn't so much that we act as women sometimes, but that we try to live lives as men. At least that was the case for me - I realized two things last year that changed my life:
1. Dressing as a woman wasn't my sickness - trying to be a man was.
2. I was powerless over my gender.

[Eryn]

...at first she didn't mind it even enjoyed it, helping him put together outfits and helping him with his make up and having fun seeing the end result, sounds a lot like me. Then she said over time it stopped being fun and started being more of a chore,...

I think a lot of what can make it a chore is if it stagnates. At first, just getting dressed is great fun, and it is naturally fun for the spouse who likes to assist. As time goes on, this can become tedious. Although Mimi often helps me select an outfit I don't expect her to do it every time. I paid attention and learned how to do it myself. With makeup, Mimi doesn't need much makeup herself so I had to learn that for myself. I ask her to critique my efforts, but I strive to do it without much assistance.

More important is what we do when I am dressed. We do a lot of things and my being dressed, while nice for me, is just incidental to the things we do. For example, on Saturday we got dressed, and went to late brunch. We did some shopping at Ross. We then met some friends, went to see Chef at the Arclight cinema, then had dinner at a Indian restaurant. We finished the evening with coffee and conversation at our friends' house.

Yes, I was dressed, and I had a great time expressing myself as I wished, but the important thing is that we had a good time together.

[Barbara Ella]

From the time this began 2.5 years ago, my wife has stated that she is intellectually supportive but emotionally not so. We went through the fearful stage, the totally supportive stage, the DADT stage, the casual dress around the house is OK, to the no more dressing around her. She understands the reasons I need to dress and go out. She cannot bring herself to even look at me dressed, and yet is supportive in my doing it and encourages me to find other things to do (out of town, no dressing in town except at two gay bars). Yes it can get confusing at times, and I am sure emotionally draining on her, but she understands i am still the person she married 43 years ago, just with more facets.

Barbara

[Beverley Sims]

Katie,
Maybe your friend's husband was overdoing it a bit and did not read his wife's limittions.
I have found backing off now and then and keeping life interesting by letting the wife take the lead in suggestions makes a good mix.

A bit of balance is needed, not all one sided.

[Stephanie47]

In my situation my wife and I explored wearing some bedroom play garments; floor length nightgowns, stockings and garter belt. It was strictly bedroom play. It was a treat and not something done all the time. Then, I bought some panties and slips. But, the BRA really turned her totally off. It was then and forever "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." She could not wrap her head around the thought of any man wanting to wear a bra if he has nothing to "pack" into it. We had the "talk" and for the last forty years it has been DADT. She knows I cross dress, but, I know she does not know the extent of it.

And I less of a man? No. The cross dressing just does not fit the man she was attracted to, dated, and married. For our marriage I always worked, supported her and my kids, etc. I do all those manly things she was attracted to. I've also done some manly things none in her family have done. She knows about them, as some of them did impact our marriage on occasion. It's kind of interesting that a woman readily accepts a man who has engaged in mortal combat and has been wounded physically and emotionally,but, rejects the small sliver of him that is not "manly."

[Secret Drawer]

The one thing that nobody really said here is that if a woman wished she had more of a real man for a husband, due to whatever circumstance, then the man they did marry is not who they wanted to begin with. In other words, for both sides of the relationship, we married a person warts and all. No matter the cause of those warts, we accepted them. The notion that somehow not sharing the information in the dating process way back when is somehow a deal breaker 35 years later (or whatever timeframe) is unfathomable. We all married that person because they were special to us... If I did not have this strange gender orientation I would not be the same person at all and my wife would have to have chosen someone else. We cannot change a person without changing their whole persona. If that woman wants a "real man," then she had better be prepared for what that actually implies. My wife does not like that I crossdress and we live with a slightly favorable DADT. My wife also knows that it is me she loves and I her. Whether I be a fisherman, a fire chief, or a person who has genderfluid tendencies, it is all part of the big who of who I am... We have the personalities we have in part because we crossdress (for whatever our reasons are it matters not!) 99% of who we are is on the inside, and that is what our relationships live on in the end.