Paddling Up Stream

[Julie Gaum]

Was watching a duck try to paddle up a fast flowing stream? This past Sunday on a TV show that I've tried to watch as long as I can remember -Sunday Morning - there was an intellegent segment on current transgender kids in school.
According to a therapist dealing with teenagers with gender dysphoria in the last few years there has been an increase of over 200%. Or at least so many more are looking for help - both MTF and FTM. Their sources stated an estimated .5% of the population. Extrapolating that seems about right if we use 90% of CDs are hetero and these would be the balance it comes to 5 million CDs that includes both MTF and FTM. Great to see an unbiased handling on TV - great for educating the public.
Also on Sunday the Texas GOP passed an amendment to their platform to the effect that all homosexuals should be treated to reverse their mistaken behavior! Unbelievable!
We think we are moving ahead but no.
Julie

[bimini1]

The more TG is in the news the more public backlash will be against it. I've heard certain segments of the population go so far as to say the rise of TG is another sign we are living in the end times. I've always thought that it would be the young TG's, the children who would open up the revolution and lead it. And make no mistake we are in the beginning phases of a full fledged transgender revolution in this world.
There is going to be plenty of push back. I've decided that I will do my part, even though it may be miniscule.

[Andy66]

Yes, it really behooves us to do our part, both for ourselves and for future generations, like the women and people of color did in the sixties.

[I Am Paula]

"According to a therapist dealing with teenagers with gender dysphoria in the last few years there has been an increase of over 200%. Or at least so many more are looking for help - both MTF and FTM. Their sources stated an estimated .5% of the population. Extrapolating that seems about right if we use 90% of CDs are hetero and these would be the balance it comes to 5 million CDs that includes both MTF and FTM. Great to see an unbiased handling on TV - great for educating the public." -Julie Guam.

You start out talking about transgender kids, and gender dysphoria, and ...leap... end the sentence with crossdressers, and heterosexuality. Talk about changing horses mid stream.
Transgender kids are not crossdressers, and their sexual preference has nothing at all to do with the subject.

It's wonderful that the subject of transgender kids is coming out in the open, and I'm glad the media is trying to treat it without sensationalism. We are moving forward.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Julie, I rarely ever miss that show but I missed it this week I will see if I can get it on demand and watch it.

[Ineke Vashon]

It might have been better to have put the GOP Texas bit in a post by itself. Nevertheless, your post is timely and valuable. There are lots of changes all across the board. And with changes there always will be groups vigorously opposing them.

Remember the cavalry officers who vehemently insisted that airplanes would never replace the horse.

Ineke

[amyjacks2014]

^.^

We need to be a positive force for such change as we may get, and not show intolerance to those who
do not agree with us. I see the backlash in Texas as a possible response to the baker thing in Colorado.

As to the increase in gender dysphoria, there is a difference between actual cases, and reported cases.
I think the prevalence of the media and internet, and the increased availability of mental health clinics and
such means that mental health issues across the board are being reported more frequently.


Amy M. Jackson

[Jaylyn]

Julie I was teacher and I can tell you that at their ages they really don't know what they are going to do. They change daily. I did see a small change in the way dress has affected our kids today. Many of the young girls and guys wore the same types of clothes. Mostly jeans and T shirts. The only difference is the girls had on some frillier open toed or as I call them flip flops but because of the flip flops being against the rules ( the shower shoes) would be all decorated. The guys usually wore lots of tennis shoes.. I taught 28 years and have only seen two children that I know should have been born the other sex from what they were. My wife teaches and she says even at the college level is too young for them to know where they are going sexually. Experimentation in sex and being that sex is to complex for them till they mature. I have never saw a CD in the 28 years of teaching in any of my thousands of students.

[kimdl93]

Re Texas, well, consider,the source.

It is good to see that kids feel safer with coming out as TG. Much better than in days past.

[franlee]

Everything is sounding good until the politics were brought into this post. And bashing Texas.

[skirtsuit]

According to a therapist dealing with teenagers with gender dysphoria in the last few years there has been an increase of over 200%.

Math abuse?

That 'statistic' is useless. 200% of what? could be up to 4 from 1.

Also agree with Paula, transgender kids are not CDs. Too bad there is so much confusion about that, here on a CD forum and all.

Best,
SS / Ms. Wedge

[Edyta_C]

Not all GOP Texans follow the leader! Some of us have our own ideas. The fringe ahs alot of really zany ideas that they push as their agenda.

Kids that have GID are "not CDs". They probably are TG. And I agree at a young age one can not tell exactly how significant or serious their GID is. Will it lead to full transition? Who know, but at least their condition is not creating more personality problems than it did in my youth.

Edy

[ReineD]

Here are the transcripts of the show, CBS Sunday Morning, aired June 8, 2014:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/born-this-way-stories-of-young-transgender-children/

They do say there are about three-quarters of a million people who are transgender. This corroborates with a study done at UCLA, that states there are about 700,000 transgenders in the US.

http://helenhill.wordpress.com/2011/06/04/ucla-study-estimates-approximate-700000-transgender-people-in-the-usa/

But the percentage is smaller than the .5% stated in the CBS article unless my math is wrong? The current adult population in the US is about 250,000,000 (80% of total population 314,000,000). This means that the ratio of transgenders to population is 3 transgender adults to every 1,000 adults, or .3%.

So I don't think these numbers include any crossdressers. It is likely that the 700,000 are living as women and taking hormones. These would be the documented cases. It's impossible to measure how many closeted crossdressers there are, or even out and about crossdressers who do not seek treatment.

One noteworthy statement in the CBS article is an opinion that there aren't more transgenders than there were, but rather people are coming out at a younger age. This will spare them decades of angst while coming to terms with their transsexuality as late-onset TSs. And it will spare them from marrying women (or men) who think they are marrying men. Although ... I wonder how many MtF transsexual youths are attracted to girls? It would be interesting if there was data on this.

I understand your feeling that we seem to be swimming upstream, Julie. A reported 89% of transgender youths say they are bullied or mistreated due to their transsexuality.

I do wish they would use the term "transsexual" though. "Transgender" is very confusing, since many crossdressers say they are transgender too. :p

[Julie Gaum]

Sorry if I confused people --- the CD and hetero part were my words and wasn't pqrt of the TV segment although one therapist indicated that some of the kids did want to wear clothes of the other gender. I was the one crunching numbers based on the dysphoria being one slice of the community. Though seperate topics I put them together as it was a good illustration that on only one day, Sunday, the media brought us progress (education to all) and lack thereof (AMA threw that concept out years ago)
Yes, they both are important topics in their own right.
Julie

[Linda Stockings]

Do we even know whether the increase is real, or is there simply an increase in observation (accurate or not) combined with a greater interest from the media and/or society in reports of transgender issues? I think we've all seen an increase in media attention in preteens being raised transgendered.

Linda

[Beverley Sims]

Julie,
Sounds like the Communists in the 60s, two steps forward and one step back.

[TessaGirl]

Well yes, sounds like a very bad move in Texas. :(

[Katey888]

Interesting juxtaposition of the Good, the bad and the ugly, Julie... :)

That's good that there is more happening to educate folk, bad that there still isn't more and with data of a definitive nature, and the ugly bit should be obvious...

We've had discussions on the forum before about struggling to find an issue that really united the LGBT community, and while it may be a negative one, the idea that one of the two major political parties of a G7 country (even in a provincial manner - tell me I've got that bit right about US parties?) could broadcast such a retrograde idea...????? Yes it is unbelievable - and deserving of the entire LGBT community uniting against it.

I'm not bashing Texas or Texans - I like Texas! You have a fascinating history and culture.. and great pit BBQs! :) - because this is deserving of national scorn... The community needs a rallying point and cry...

Just my :2c:

Katey x

[Julie Gaum]

Reine's post helped untangle some of the confusion that, in error, I stepped into. Like it or not most of the members of this Forum are under the transgender umbrella as trans vestites. While a segment are going into, bordering on or are already in the group we call transsexual. We need to be clear of whom we refer to.
I was not as it wasn't the thrust of that thread. As Reine did, just sort it out and let's go on.
Julie

[sometimes_miss]

Statistics show that 50% of all statistics are made up on the spot, in order to support the views of the person stating the statistics. Not to mention, of course, that there really is no way to accurately measure the number of actual ts, tg, cd or even gay because of how many are deep in the closet. So all the reported numbers are completely worthless. What is good news, is that more kids are seeking out guidance when dealing with their sexuality. In the past there have been way too many who's lives were ruined because we had nowhere to turn to, no one we could trust, leaving nearly every single one feeling lonely and isolated. And what was worse, was when a suicide was reported and the victim's sexuality was brought into question, how many people considered 'one less pervert' no great loss to society. So at least we're making some progress.

[Amy Fakley]

I doubt there are more TG people now than there have been in the past.

What has changed is that there aren't the barriers to understanding that there once were. Kids figure it out earlier now, because no matter how unusual something is, in this day and age, it is trivial to find both volumes of information about it, as well as other people affected by it.

This is a tremendous restructuring of how cultures have worked through all of human history.

Think of the most unusual possible thing you can imagine. If more than one person in the world is into it, you can bet they've found each other, and have pooled their understanding. Before the internet happened, those people would probably live our their lives thinking they were the only ones.

Case in point: species dysphoria -- I kid you not, google it.

There will be a ton of push-back as the culture adapts to reality: absolutely nobody on this planet is "normal" ... however, there is no going back now. The world has already fundamentally changed. For all the self-righteous hollerin' and carrying on that some people will do ... the world will march forward with or without them.

That gives me a lot of hope for the future.

[ReineD]

there really is no way to accurately measure the number of actual ts, tg,

It's actually quite easy to measure transsexuals. They seek treatment and they all eventually leave their closets when they transition and get SRS & FFS.

Here's a good explanation on how LGBT statistics are derived, from the Gallup poll. The numbers tend to be believable when study after study, in different countries, come up with similar results. Gallup does say they can only measure people who are out (but don't underestimate people who don't mind outing themselves in an anonymous survey). And they also say that a lot more young people are outing themselves. So the dark ages are almost over! :)

http://www.gallup.com/poll/158066/special-report-adults-identify-lgbt.aspx

The most difficult to measure I should think would be crossdressers. But then so many crossdressers don't have an alternate gender identity, they really do see themselves as men (and don't forget all the fetish CDs who don't hang out here). So if they are male-identified and they are hetero, what is there to measure?

[Julie Gaum]

This post is partially directed to Katey888 to assure her that she has the parties over the pond pretty right. While we have two historical major parties there are a number of offshoots that were not too important until recently although the Independents represent a good number who may be swayed to change parties. Now however, a new group calling themselves the Tea Party (After a Boston protest dumped British tea when the Brits ruled the waves) decided that the Republicans were not conservative enough so they are trying to change the GOP. While many Republican politicians do a small amount of compromising with the Democrats in order to make some progress the Tea Party says "no way". This Texas GOP platform to cure homosexuals was passed by only a small number of total party members in Texas. Boy, did I ever believe that one day I'd be standing up for Republicans? Guess pigs do fly. The fact remains that the two major groups that are
very strongly anti GBLT and also very much against CDs belong to the Republican party as individuals. Sad but true.
Yesterday I had an interesting call from Gallup mentioned by Reine. It was a poll that was being taken regarding the economy. When completed the gal asked for personal data. The last question was: "You do not need to answer but are you male, female or transgender?" Ma'm, I replied, before I can answer what do you mean by transgender? Silence for a minute then she replied, "I guess those are the men who wear dresses." I thought to myself that one day soon another statistic will be produced and available to all who wish to prove something.
Julie

[ReineD]

The last question was: "You do not need to answer but are you male, female or transgender?" Ma'm, I replied, before I can answer what do you mean by transgender? Silence for a minute then she replied, "I guess those are the men who wear dresses." I thought to myself that one day soon another statistic will be produced and available to all who wish to prove something.
Julie

Wow! This is why I think it is wrong for transsexuals to call themselves transgender. And for CDers to do the same. TSs and CDs most definitely have different needs.

[Julie Gaum]

That duck's paddling has become frantic after the Governor of Texas, when discussing his views on homosexuality was quoted: "whether or not you feel compelled to follow a particular lifestyle or not, you have the ability to decide not to do that." Now if he believes that gays can choose then what must he think of the CDs?
As a politician he is careful not toke a position not shared by the majority --- scary.
To Reine - good point!

[ReineD]

That duck's paddling has become frantic after the Governor of Texas, when discussing his views on homosexuality was quoted: "whether or not you feel compelled to follow a particular lifestyle or not, you have the ability to decide not to do that." Now if he believes that gays can choose then what must he think of the CDs?

You mean similar to the comment some years back from a Missouri congressman? If it's a "legitimate rape", then a woman's body will shut down and she won't get pregnant. :rolleyes:

Back to your point, I think that acceptance for CDs & TSs lags behind acceptance for gays.

[Polly Sharp]

Perhaps the media, statisticians, and poll companies need educating into what terms they should use. Over the years I've heard many labels that people apply to themselves to determine how they see their alter-ego. I see myself as a cross dresser but have described myself as 'Trans' when trying to explain to people that this has always been a part of me, it's not a fetish thing or I'm not a drag artiste etc.
Joe Public does not understand what the difference is, many see a bloke in a dress and say 'queer' and either look in disgust or beat them up! They react to peer pressure, what their parents have told them, or what they've seen and heard. Very few parents will have explained to their offspring what a Trans person is, or that a high percentage of cross dressers are hetro, or that a CD is not automatically gay. The schools don't mention it either, so how are our kids supposed to know if we don't tell them.
I did a lot of educational talks at events, companies, organisations, universities and so on where a group I was very much an active part of would send 2-3 of us along to chat about our place in society. Half of it would be prepared information, the other half was to answer questions. Amazing how many people came to talk to us afterwards to thank us for changing the way they would look at people like us, or how they felt good to have met us and been able to gain an understanding. Such a pity there isn't more of that sort of thing going on.

[sometimes_miss]

It's actually quite easy to measure transsexuals. They seek treatment and they all eventually leave their closets when they transition and get SRS & FFS.
Not all of them. There are, and always have been, non op TS. Not all of them wind up in 'the system'. So they don't get counted. What the poles show is the number of TS in western, at least somewhat tolerant societies, that decide to seek counseling and/or transition. There is no way to count the number who do not, just as there is no way to count the number of people who would kill their spouse (mother in law, room mate, etc.) if they knew they could get away with it!

[ReineD]

S_miss, it is my impression that TSs cannot live forever as a man (if MtF). This is what differentiates them from non-TSs. They eventually do need to do something to alleviate the gender dysphoria or it will kill them, and it is difficult to do so properly without medical intervention.

[sometimes_miss]

S_miss, it is my impression that TSs cannot live forever as a man (if MtF). This is what differentiates them from non-TSs. They eventually do need to do something to alleviate the gender dysphoria or it will kill them, and it is difficult to do so properly without medical intervention.
Gender dysphoria doesn't kill you. It will make life uncomfortable, but it won't kill you. Yes, there are people who will kill themselves without transitioning and srs. There are also people who do not focus their entire lives on what sex they are. I have no idea where you got the impression that every case of transsexualism with GID causes such complete inability to function. Like most other psychological disorders, there are degrees to which it interferes with activities of daily life, and the ability of the patient to function. Some will be able to deal with it on their own, some will need professional help occasionally, perhaps medication to deal with anxiety/depression symptoms resulting from their inability to come to terms with their situation in life, some will become catatonic and sit in the corner. There's no way to know how any one individual will deal with their life.

[ReineD]

I have no idea where you got the impression that every case of transsexualism with GID causes such complete inability to function.

In the TS section of this forum, and also among the transwomen that I know personally.

But, maybe the difference between our positions is a question of what defines a TS. In my opinion, there are people who say or think they are TS but they are not. If it is a difference in definition, then I'll bow out of the argument in this thread, since it is off topic.