What didn't stop you??

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Tink's Thought of The Week: :)

(Just so you all know, I'm doing this for struggling GG's everywhere who sit there with these inane and endless thoughts in their head and just want to ask someone, ANYONE, who gets it. So I'm asking them on their behalf.) Now to the question:

I'm a mom of young kids (boy included) and I know from personal experience and the ever available parenting book that little boys try on girls clothes. It's common, harmless, and a part of childhood curiosity.

Until it's not.

At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.

So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

Are you rebels?? :)

[Marcelle]

Hi Tink . . . hmm . . . let me ponder this :thinking:

Well from my own experience which seems to be a bit different from others, I do recall as a young boy questioning why I could not wear a pretty dress to school and my mom saying because boys don't wear dresses. Now at such a young age while it seemed my mom must know what she was talking about (she was my mom after all) it still did not resonate with me as logical (well as much as a five year old understands logic). But I accepted that fact and put on my pants. However in the back of mind I still wondered what it would be like to dress pretty. I don't think at that age we (humans) understand all the social taboo rules of dressing or gender play we just bounce around and figure it out as we go along . . . kind of like Bandura's Social Learning Theory. I see boys (who are like me) dress and act a certain way and I mimic. However perhaps for some . . . we look at boys and mimic but part of us looks at girls and wish to mimic. In my case I believe I locked that away in the recesses of my psyche and when Isha made her debut last year, all that information was there. For boys who continue I don't think it is so much being a rebel but more that the Social Learning phase picked both genders to mimic and that becomes ingrained. Not saying this is the sole reason for CDing but I am sure it is buried in there somewhere will all the other hypothesis about why we dress.

Hope this helps

Hugs

Isha

[NancyJ]

Tink, Times have certainly changed and I doubt that any parenting book in the 50's mentioned that boys dressing in girls' clothes was a normal developmental step. I remember wanting to wear girl things as a young boy, but being fearful of doing so due to the tremendous taboo and worry that it was a "sin." (Catholic grade school). I did not first put on female clothing until I had the courage as a teenager to do so, and I had started to question some of the repressive messages I had been taught. Then, once I did so (wore female clothes) the power of doing so was overwhelming and compelling. It was exciting, arousing, and calming all at once. So maybe yes, there was some rebellion against strict social norms, but that was not a motivating factor. If I could have chosen to never have these feelings I would have chosen that. My desire to crossdress has caused me more heartache and consternation than joy. I just want to be free and accepted. I didn't stop because it is who I am. Nancy

[Rhonda Jean]

I don't think I ever had a sense that it was wrong. I guess that because long, feminine hair was allowed or encouraged, I never got the idea that wearing girl's clothes was "wrong". I didn't want to be made fun of. That was probably my biggest motivation to not do it more openly. Even when I was very young, there were some things that it seemed worth occasionally risking ridicule for. Earrings comes to mind (this was mid 60's). So what kept me from going further back in those formative years? Fear of ridicule. Why didn't I stop? Once I could drive, and even more so when I moved away, the fear of ridicule went away along with the possibility of being recognized. So, I never thought it was wrong, which is probably why I never experienced the guilt that a lot of us do.

[Jane P]

Could be it felt right , right from the start but we were told it was wrong , conditioned to believe it was wrong , made to feel guilt because of this conditioning but kept doing it because to a part of us it still just felt right. We continued to hide it away because of societal conditioning.
It's funny how it isn't wrong in the beginning. I recall being dressed up by my sisters when I was maybe 4 and receiving positive feedback , teasingly I suppose but hearing all the " well don't you look pretty and such" comments which are eventually replaced by " boys don't do that . At the time there were things that girls didn't do , but those things have been proven to be nonsense because girls can do anything boys can do.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Tink, I don't recall anyone ever telling me it was wrong, somehow I felt it to be wrong though, otherwise I would not have dressed in secret. It was fun and exciting, and it was me.
I may have been the rebel child of the family, 1 brother, 2 sisters, but dressing was still a secret. If I really wanted to be a rebel, I could have dressed for the whole family to see.
Much Love,
Kristyn

[Mollyanne]

When I first tried on a garter belt, stockings and panties it was a "experimental thing" that soon became a thrilling, sensational method. I knew that boys did not do this but it was exciting and felt really good to feel the nylon on legs, and the satin on my torso. I also felt that I was the only one doing this, later did I realize that this was not the case. When the word "wrong" is inserted into something that there is a need to do IE: CROSS DRESSING then "wrong" becomes the norm and guilt follows thereafter. If I am wrong for dressing as a woman then I am wrong but I am going to do it anyway.

Molly

[kimdl93]

The perspective you offer suggest that there comes a time when kids learn that "cross dressing is wrong' and stop for that reason. I think this is a mistaken belief. Kids role play for fun, but also to try out gender roles. Many little boys wear girls things, but stop, not because it is deemed socially wrong. They stop because it doesn't interest them personally. In contrast many of us, myself included, were actively discouraged from exploring these roles in the form of clothing by the fear of being as you say, socially wrong.

Your question suggests that the cross dressing behavior is learned and at some point becomes a choice to disregard social norms. I would very strongly submit that most of us did quit dressing and conform to 'socially correct behavior.' We responded to the pressure of parent or sibling or other such influences and repressed the desire to express our gender identity.

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Tink, For the last 67 years it has just been something that I enjoyed doing.

[Kate Simmons]

Not sure Hon. I was a rough and tumble boy for sure but somehow it always seemed to be a part of myself that I didn't question, it just was. It took me some 50+ years to finally begin to understand that it was really about deep feelings(at least for me). Then I was finally able to manage it.:)

[jessie1209]

When I first started dressing it had to do more with the sexual feeling and even though I knew it was wrong I felt sexy and beautiful.

[MsVal]

As one that came late to the party, I am not among your target audience. However I suggest that juvenile crossdressers may be driven by some of the same motivations that drive other children to raid mom's secret stash of candy. Ie: it is enjoyable, and the reward outweighs the risk.

Best wishes
MsVal

[Laurie A]

Tink,

The answer to the first question is simple for me, it was a compulsion, and at a young age, impulse control rarely exists. I still have no idea why I started...

The second question, for me, no it was not an act of rebellion, in fact I was deeply ashamed and would have been mortified if ever found out.

I will say that I learned to be devious, hiding this secret from my parents and siblings. This type of deceit developed into other patterns of behavior later in life that I am not proud of. Which then made the whole issue painful for me to even think about during my teens and early adult years.

[Ressie]

I'm not too sure of the premise that it's common for boys to try on girl's clothes. Then at some point discover that it's wrong and stop? Is this what Dr. Spock said or is it another book? I just never thought it was common, but it would be difficult to really find out. If a poll was taken how many men would admit they tried on girl's clothes as children?

Common or not, in my case my mom discovered I was wearing silky panties at around age 7 or 8 and I got the message it was wrong. They fit perfectly because they were doll's panties and they felt wonderful, but I stopped wearing them.

Somewhere around the start of puberty (~5 years later) I wondered what would happen if I tried on my sister's dress. It turned out to be intense sexual arousal and simply became something that had to repeated. Trying on other articles was inevitable throughout the next few years and frankly, there was shame involved. But it was just too exciting to stop.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Your question suggests that the cross dressing behavior is learned and at some point becomes a choice to disregard social norms.

Actually, I was just pointing out the typical path this takes and asking why some boys continue on with it while others don't. My idea was some might indeed be rebels, enjoying the social taboo of it all. We girls get to wear what we like by pushing social norms. Why not boys?

But you've also shown the innate side to some here, that leads a boy along an already mapped path. Did you also feel 'wrong' about your CD at the beginning? Or was there always a deep sense that it's right no matter what anyone else says? Because a part of me thinks the male biology you all carry shuns CD even when your heart says otherwise. It's a reflex or something. Just an observation.

Thanks for answering everyone. Remember, just learning and sharing here. Not judging at all. I just want to ask the questions of those on the outside so that we might better understand :) xx

Edit: Ressie, one of the latest parenting books for boys at the moment mentions this curiosity (no, not Dr Spock who is now considered a dinosaur! lol) and I'm pretty sure many moms have witnessed it. I picked my son up from preschool two years back and ALL the boys had decided to wear tutus for the day. They thought it was hilarious! Every one of my friends and my sisters with boys who also have sisters have tried on skirts, mom's heels, nail polish etc. Given the percentage of these boys who will actually continue crossdressing, (5%?) then yes, I'd say it's a common curiosity for boys in general.

[samantha rogers]

Tink, it is pretty simple...on the streets where I grew up the least sign of weakness got you beat up. Simply standing wrong or not acting like a tough guy jerk would have you labeled as a "poof" and life would effectively end. The world has still not changed in many places.
People forget so easily, but this thing we do...this "thing" that makes us unique and special and beautiful...this thing can get us killed.
Sigh

[Sc0rp10N]

I never tried on mom's panties, my sister was younger and her clothes would not have fit if I'd had the urge to try them on, which I didn't, I thought cross dressers were all gay, weird, etc. While growing up. Even in high school, a friend started and I summed it up that he was an attention hog. I never felt or wanted this. And then I did. And i was embarrassed both for liking it and for not previously being understanding, my attitudes changed. 99% of the reason for me is sexual and I have been kind-of a nympho from an early age. Nothing hasn't stopped me from dressing because I have only recently started and have never tried to stop, but I'm very compartmentalized in life and it has its place and time. ... Oh yeah, and completely aside from this, I have always been a rebel, so CD-Ing would SEEM to go along, but it doesn't... Punk rocker with Mohawk, vegan before it was cool, anarchist, atheist, musician, artist, etc. All things rebellious in my youth, what's funny today is that many of my attitudes have become more traditional, which also, now, seems to be the rebellious attitude... ;-)

[Christen]

Hi Tink,

First question; for me it was never the common, harmless part of childhood curiosity. Well, I don't think it was. I've memories from well before I ever slipped on that first item of girl's clothing, a cardigan, at the age of maybe 7, of feeling different, to what I'm not even sure. I remember being in the choir stall at church looking over the congregation, I was, say somewhere around 5, and wishing I could be dressed like some of the girls my age that I could see. I knew it considered wrong to wear girl's clothing before I ever did it, even at such a young age. I borrowed items of my sisters and wore them secretly. I made up stories to cover strange occurrences , such as my sisters briefs being found tucked in my sheets. But why? Maybe I thought girls had a better deal. Although that doesn't make a lot of sense given the age when this desire made itself known to me. So the why question is still unanswered for myself.

Second question; when I think of the anguished nights with silent tears, the depressed periods, the turmoil and agony crossdressing has given me because I knew and believed it was socially wrong, No, I didn't keep doing it for that reason.

Am I a rebel? Heck Tink, I don't even wear brightly coloured socks.

Christen x

[hope springs]

Late blooming CD here so i dont have a ton of early CD experience. However, the few times in my adolescence i crossdressed, it didnt feel wrong at all. Just different. I certainly wasnt rebelling, i was just genuinely curious.
But..... ive always lacked that small voice in my voice that says dont do something because others might not like it. That internal nagging that keeps societal norms part of your thought process, yeah... dont have that. Never did. Thats probably has way more to do with my accepting CD than rebelliousness.
I didnt keep dressing because it was never at the fore of my thoughts. When i admitted i wasnt whole i accepted CDing and felt much better.
Thanks for such great questons

[Bryanne]

I began dressing at an early age, and although I felt guilt, I enjoyed it, and it felt right to me. It was another interest of mine, like movies or music or building model airplanes. As I began to lose some interest in it, I told a friend about my dressing one day, and she encouraged it in a supportive, and occasionally sexual way, which I don't believe hurt the situation in a "I feel guilty" way. Having that reward for it strengthened my urge to dress and get better at it. Later in life, it would haunt me, as I didn't find a girl who was into it, and buried those urges, only to find them again following the divorce.

I would suppose, then, that what did not stop me was a combination of a relationship that rewarded my dressing at a very impressionable point in my life, and some form of a creative outlet to improve at something, in this case, presenting as an attractive woman. Taking this further, I wish that I had never stopped, or let go of the young lady who brought it out of me like that. Regret is a terrible thing to shoulder.

I think that, unless dressing has some detrimental effect on one's life, say missing work, skipping-out on responsibilities and more, that it should be embraced as an interest and hobby, and nurtured in some way. If some men can have boating or collecting classic autos as a hobby because it is their interest, what does it matter if my chosen interest is dressing en femme?

[Confucius]

Yes, they know it is socially unacceptable, but they do it anyway. Most experience shame and guilt from cross-dressing during their youth. They hide their cross-dressing with great fear of being found. They think they are the only person in the world with this condition. So why do they do it? Because they cannot make it go away. You need to understand the "cross-dressing is a form of synesthesia" theory.

Stage 1 - The Biology
In your early years of life your brain is undergoing synaptogenesis. This is a critical period of making neural connections. Your brain is forming 700-1000 neural connections per second!!! By the time you are three years old you have many, many more neural connections than at any other point of your life. Then, largely through the learning process, your brain cuts the nonsense connections and reinforces the learned connections in a process called neural pruning. Sometimes connections are maintained that don't seem logical. Synesthesia involves crossing senses. Synesthesia is a neurological condition where activity in one sensory pathway causes an automatic and involuntary response in a second sensory pathway.

Stage 2 - The Psychology
This also involves some of the biology. It concerns the reinforcement of neural connections intrinsic to synesthesia. The person identifies feminine articles (clothing, jewelry, shoes, make-up) with the contact with a female. Any number of associations can be made and it accounts for some of the spectrum within cross-dressing. In most cases it is simply a sensitive young boy wants contact with his mother. He often over-values feminine virtues and sees females as being more favored by society, girls have it better in life than boys, or he may have poor male role models. In some cases the young boy is made to believe that he has to be stoic, tough, competitive, and live up to impossible expectations from his parents. He is told that "boys don't cry", "boys can't hit girls", "don't let the bully push you around", and then they beat on each other to establish dominance... However, girls are seen as being valued simply for their appearances. In any event, the young boy believes that girls get a free pass in life, and have much less stress, and enjoy pretty things and enjoy gentle play.

Stage 3 - The Trigger
At this point their brain has neural connections already in place. They perceive girls as being socially privileged. All they need is a trigger, and for most this means they experiment with cross-dressing. They will usually vividly remember their "first time", like an explosion going off in their brain. They often report this first experience as being highly exciting, stimulating, addicting, and causing their body to be shaking all over. What is happening is that their brain is interpreting cross-dressing as actual contact with a female. Their brain immediately releases a host of neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin) which produce the sensations of well-being, comfort, pleasure, sexual gratification and bonding. Many report the sensation as a "rush". It affects the reward centers of his brain, instant gratification, and thus it mimics the addiction response. No, you can't make your brain stop releasing neurotransmitters. However by doing the same thing over and over it does cause the brain to fatigue and release less dopamine, and the cross-dresser will feel a need to vary the experience to keep his dopamine levels high.

About the brain interpreting cross-dressing as actual contact with a female: The cross-dresser will experience this automatic and involuntary secondary sensory experience and will need to understand it as either internalized, or externalized. If he internalizes the "contact with a female" sensation it will mean that he thinks that somehow the female is inside of himself. If he externalizes the "contact with a female" sensation it will mean that he sees himself as just a "man in a dress", and cross-dressing is just a compulsive mystery. This internal/external concept is largely responsible for the spectrum found in the cross-dressing community.

Testosterone? Yes, testosterone is important. It is associated with our sex drive. So when we reach puberty and the testosterone levels rise quickly, then the "contact with a female" sensation will be very sexually stimulating. Usually cross-dressers report that before puberty their cross-dressing was fun and freeing, but not sexually stimulating. Also later in life when their testosterone levels wane then cross-dressing is not so much sexual, as it is comforting, and reduces stress.

Another biological concept that should be noted is childhood amnesia. Researchers report that when we get around 7-9 years old we lose almost all our memories of our first three years. For the cross-dresser this means that any female envy he may have experienced in early childhood may be corrected and forgotten before he reaches adolescence. However his neural connections are still there, and all he needs is the trigger. His cross-dressing may be a complete mystery to him. In the end all he knows is that cross-dressing makes him happy.

That in a nutshell, is the "cross-dressing is a form of synesthesia" theory. I hope this helps.

[Kate T]

At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.

This is not the way I would describe how I felt. I KNEW it was socially wrong but it ALWAYS FELT intrinsically right.


So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

Are you rebels?? :)

Childrens behaviour certainly up until the age of 10 yrs (and for most until much older) is essentially driven by 2 things. Firstly what they like and feel is right, and secondly by their desire for love and acceptance (usually in the form of praise or affection), typically from parents. Very few children are driven in their behaviour by a desire to rebel against society.

Assuming that most parents do not provide additional praise or affection on their child when they are cross dressing versus when they are not cross dressing then the only real explanation for the child to continue cross dressing is that they like it and it feels right to them.

So as much as I would like to claim to be a young rebel I most certainly didn't continue cross dressing as a rebellion against a social norm.

Doesn't mean that I can't make up for it now though :p.

[Jenniferathome]

...

So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

Are you rebels?? :)

Tink, im going to ask my wife to reply as well as she has a particular expertise in this area but I will jump in for now.

first, while as a 7 or 8 year old, I knew it was "wrong" for boys to wear girls clothes, it felt right. Wearing the clothes never felt bad. The guilt or bad feelings resulted from having to hide.

Second, no, cross dressing is not a social commentary. If that were the case, we'd be open about it. You can't make a social comment in a closet. I believe if it were considered socially acceptable, we cross dressers would still dress just without the guilt.

[bridget thronton]

The reason for stopping was they were not my clothes (they were my mother's when I was young or my wife's when I started again and wearing them without permission seemed wrong to me). Once I started buying my own clothes I did not feel i was doing anything wrong (I was not hiding things from my family either).

[Cheryl T]

Firstly, I NEVER felt that it was wrong!
What I did feel was that others felt it was wrong. To me it seemed (and always has) perfectly natural!

Secondly, no I have never done this to go against the social grain. This is all about ME and how I feel. It has nothing to do with anyone else, what they perceive or expect, or how what they think may try to influence me.

I feel complete, whole, unified now that I have freed myself of all those pressures others have tried to impose on me. This is and always has been about ME!!!

[UNDERDRESSER]

Tink's Thought of The Week: :)

So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

Are you rebels?? :)It felt nice, and

Yes, of course, something "forbidden" is always more attractive.

[Wifeofjenniferathome]

Confucius, Thanks for sharing this theory! Every since my husband has come out to me, I have felt that that there must me something with early experiences and brain development that makes this come about. I teach early childhood education at a college and because the brain is developing at such a rapid rate in the first three years, so many of our early experiences can affect us for the rest of our lives. At the same time, two people can experience the exact same things at the exact same time and react differently. I think this explains Tink's questions about why some boys can experiment with "female" clothing and not have any future reaction to them, and some can't.
Wifeofjenniferathome

[NicoleScott]

Answer to #1: I kept crossdressing because the drive was so strong, even in the face of ""it's wrong".
Answer to #2: no, there are lots of things society sees as wrong, but I don't rebel in those areas.
I crossdress because there is some mysterious internal drive to do so, and it seems to overwhelm the reasons not to.

For those who say they never felt their CDing as wrong, the vast majority nevertheless did it in private behind a locked door. I guess the explanation for that is: "I don't think it's wrong, but others do so I do it secretly".

[carhill2mn]

My first experience with wearing women/girls clothing was at about age 8. Somehow, I knew that it was not something that a boy should do. However, the pleasure, thrill, whatever was so strong that I continued to "dress up" no matter what. I believe that the "pleasure receptors" of my brain were so stimulated by these experiences that I would go to great lengths so repeat the experiences.

I did not continue crossdressing because it was socially wrong. I continued because I loved it!

I am definitely not a rebel.

[Eryn]

...my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

That one is easy. I didn't ignore society's cues. I didn't dress for five decades because I had been taught by society that dressing was morally wrong and perverse. That didn't mean that my interest in the feminine lifestyle went away, just it was pushed to the deepest part of my consciousness.

The best way I have to explain this to a GG is to imagine a world where gourmet food was everywhere. Half of the population walks about enjoying delicacies, smelling the aromas, savoring the tastes, discussing them among themselves, etc. Dining is an integral part of society and those that dine have exclusive connections with each other that non-diners aren't allowed to have. You, as a child, reach for a treat and a adult hand slaps yours. NO! This isn't for non-diners! Shame on you for even thinking of tasting good food! Your kind only gets to eat oatmeal. On special occasions you are allowed to add a bit of sugar to it, but most days it will be plain.

You continue on in life. People around you continue to enjoy their gourmet treats. You smell the aroma and imagine what it would be like to have a taste, but you know it is morally wrong to have those thoughts.

One day, you are in the kitchen and there is nobody else around. There are trays of treats all around you. What would you do?



Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

No, I was desperate to be accepted and would do just about anything that society demanded. It was only after I became more mature and sure of myself that I realized that time was fleeting and that my ability to express my being in my own way was important. The people who define societal norms are only interested in maintaining their own power through conformity, not in my situation. I will express myself as I wish no matter how they, or their minions, feel about it. The people close to me are the people who count and they are supportive of my needs and desires.

[Secret Drawer]

At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.

I would never question your personal experiences and as you have said here, your husband did feel this way, but for many of us we had some sort of "electrical" connection the moment we tried on our first item of womens clothing. This worked for me as I experimented along even with things as mundane as my neighbors sneakers! So there was no wrong feeling weening period before it felt right, it just always seemed exactly right, from the start. I think most boys just don't get any particular reaction from the try on session and just blow it off like anything anyone isn't particularly interested in.
In so far as the clothing representing our mothers or women in general and all of that, Confucius mixes science with speculation and I just can't get on board with it.
I have used the idea of being a rebel as an excuse to wear womens clothing before, many years ago, but internally it is not about society, but me on the inside.

[Deedee Skyblue]

Hey, Tinkerbell! See my signature - some part of me gets a thrill when I 'get away' with something. When I was young, it seemed to me that I _always_ got caught whenever I did something I wasn't supposed to - and my brothers almost _never_ got caught and it just wasn't fair! So when I dress and get away with doing something that is 'forbidden', it is a WIN for me!

Deedee

[Ally 2112]

Even thou i knew it was wrong and the guilt i felt after doing it the urge was just way stronger .Believe me i tried everthing to quit but in the end it was just better to accept it

[Tina_gm]

T- I really enjoy your thought provoking threads. Looking back to my early childhood, I can see now that I had some feminine traits. My 1st real feeling of I want to wear that came at 17. In some ways a late bloomer, and it was a few years after until I had tried on any women's clothing. Those early times from 17 and early experiences with women's clothing, maybe a half dozen.... guilt, shame, disgust at myself, secrecy. Those experiences do not describe everyone on this board, but probably from an early age, the largest group. Those are not the emotions of someone who is a rebel. Those who are rebellious will want it to be known, to flaunt it. Now, even those who do put it out there for whatever they are rebelling against or about, they have to like or feel comfortable about what they are doing. The younger public CDers do enjoy dressing and I do not discredit their CDing anymore than anyone elses, but for the many of us who have lived in shame, guilt, suppression and secrecy, rebelling is not likely a reason. I tried so hard to purge the desires and emotions. I prayed it would all go away and I could just be a normal guy. Hell, sometimes I still do. Give me the blue pill any day please. I cannot speak for all here but I am sure many would say that it isn't out of rebellious desires to CD.

[Roxie]

Good Question:For me I completely thought it was wrong when I was young and trying on my moms "stuff". And for a long time I hardly even gave cding a second thought,however as I grew older and my relationships changed,so did my desire to dress CHANGED. As Roxie emerged I realized that she was a big part of my life and in my eyes Its who I am. As a lot of this is still new to me ,Im so looking forward to see where this takes me,its the right thing for me .

P.S. Roxie is a rebel

[Kate T]

Every since my husband has come out to me, I have felt that that there must me something with early experiences and brain development that makes this come about.

And yet there appear to be fairly clear medically documented cases of an inherent gender image defined at birth and unable to be altered by hormonal or psychological / upbringing, the most famous being David Reimer (The biography / documentary book "As nature made him" is worthwhile having a read). Perhaps early childhood experiences actualise a predisposition but I think the gender identity exists at / prior to birth.

[Beverley Sims]

Not a rebel, dressing is socially and morally wrong.... That is an upbringing thing like stealing is wrong.

I thought maybe it's wrong when I was about ten.

[Millie.Graham]

So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

Hi Tink,

I don't know that I honestly have an answer for your first question other than it just felt right. I took a lot of shaming, dehumanizing, and physical punishment for wanting to crossdress when I was young. It took much, much less to stop me from doing other things as a kid, so why was this desire so persistent in the face of such objection? I don't know other than to say that is how my brain is wired.

As for the second question. Yes I do realize it is considered socially wrong. That is why I have tried to suppress it for most of my adult life. I am just getting to a point where I am tired, and getting to a point where I don't care what societal objections are. Am I am rebel by nature? Definitely not. But I am independent in almost every sense of the word. I don't usually feel the need to follow the heard to be accepted. I'll follow the heard sometimes because it makes sense or its just easier, but I usually go about life doing my own thing in my own way. Not to make waves, but just because I don't feel the need to do what everybody else is doing.

-Millie

[docrobbysherry]

Until I was over 50, I never tried on women's clothes out of "curiosity" or for any other CD reason.

Here's the reason I didn't:
From the time I can remember being me? Maybe age 4 or 5? I never thot about trying on women's things! Not once did the thot enter my mind. Any more than thinking about trying to fly or turn into a starfish.

While I won't quarrel with your stats about young boys trying on women's things, I'm suspicious why they would? I saw the clothes my dad wore and what men wore on TV. I wanted to try on his riding boots, shooting gloves, and long overcoat and hat. Wear a fireman's uniform. And, I drove my mom nuts until she made me a cowboy outfit like the ones the Lone Ranger and Hopalong Cassidy wore. I have pics of me at about 5 in that outfit that I still remember wearing!

Why would a boy want to try on women's things unless he wanted to look like a woman? Why would he even think of it? I certainly didn't until late in life.

[Zylia]

I think that anyone's personal recollection of their five-year-old selves should be taken with quite a few grains of salt. I think it was simply the excitement that kept me going, but maybe that's just projection. Part of that could be the 'forbidden' aspect. I remember I was pretty self-aware of not being perceived as 'too girly' for fear of being 'outed'. Perhaps that's the thing that kept me in the closet.

[MissTee]

Hey Tink,

What I remember is that I was taught it was wrong. Boys do this, girls do that. Nevertheless, kids are curious and try things. Heck, they even eat dirt out of curiosity. My first 3 decades or so of life, then, I dealt with the wrongness pangs of guilt. At some point I decided to be OK with me and just let that completely unexplainable CD thing have it's place in my little universe and move on.

BTW, I'm not full-time, don't want to be, don't want to transition, etc. I enjoy my man side, too.

[Ressie]

Yes, they know it is socially unacceptable, but they do it anyway. Most experience shame and guilt from cross-dressing during their youth. They hide their cross-dressing with great fear of being found. They think they are the only person in the world with this condition. So why do they do it? Because they cannot make it go away. You need to understand the "cross-dressing is a form of synesthesia" theory.

The theory makes sense to me but the OP believes that it's common for boys to try on female clothing and that a large percentage of them will never become crossdressers later in life. Once it's established that it's wrong, they stop.



Edit: Ressie, one of the latest parenting books for boys at the moment mentions this curiosity (no, not Dr Spock who is now considered a dinosaur! lol) and I'm pretty sure many moms have witnessed it. I picked my son up from preschool two years back and ALL the boys had decided to wear tutus for the day. They thought it was hilarious! Every one of my friends and my sisters with boys who also have sisters have tried on skirts, mom's heels, nail polish etc. Given the percentage of these boys who will actually continue crossdressing, (5%?) then yes, I'd say it's a common curiosity for boys in general.

Maybe you can tell I'm going back 50 years. Back then boys wearing tutus wasn't encouraged. Psychologists back then suggested parents not let their boys wear girl's clothes. That's probably why nearly everyone on this board did it in private.

Things have changed if your sisters and friends think it's funny to see their boys try on female clothing. They're probably unaware their boys will become CDs later in life. Continuing to wear women's clothes from an early age isn't common, but it's common for the behavior to return later on.

[Teresa]

Tinkerbell ,
I had to think very hard if I thought it wrong right at the start the drive to do it was so strong it overpowered everything. It started at 9 with a swimsuit because in my mind the shape must have represented the body of the GF I had at that time. Unfortunately it induced my first O which at the time I didn't know what had happened but that locked girls-Cding-sex in my brain. After that point the guilt started not because I was wearing the clothes but because of the sex I wanted more . I certainly didn't continue Cding because it was socially wrong, it actually felt right to want to share with a GG because of the closeness.

Confucious,
I must be different but I have vivid memories of much earlier than 7 years. We lived in Malta in my early chidhood and can remember the house layout , the street layout places where we use to play.

[Lorileah]

At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them.

There is a fallacy here. The reason boys stop wearing clothing is because they are TOLD it is wrong. Not that it feels wrong. It feels like clothing but society has labeled the clothing as belonging to one gender over another. If your supposition was true many native tribes around the world would not have their males wearing sarongs or other types of wraps. Boys feel it is wrong for the same reason they feel it is wrong to play with dolls or like music over sports. As a popular Broadway song stated "You have to be carefully taught". The shame is a learned response

If men's field hockey wore the same uniforms as women's and it was a required part of the game, how many male field hockey players would quit? None because it would be "normal". So saying that most boys don't do something because it "feels" wrong is...actually wrong. This is not saying that boys don't find that girl's clothing isn't uncomfortable. They may very well feel that way wit the fit or style or color, but that is a personal preference, similar to how some women will only wear yoga pants.

When we have children in any society, we start conditioning them to certain things. Some are good like don't touch a hot stove or look both ways before crossing streets, But other conditioning occurs also like "you can't do that because I said so" You start pointing your child in a direction. Good morals, being polite but we also point them in directions that make absolutely no logical sense. Like why is a skirt provenance of females? It isn't in some cultures. Why is it that women are taught to be subservient? There are maternalistic cultures where women are in charge. These cultures survive just fine. Shame is a learned response, one where we respond because we are told we are wrong in some manner. If a child were raised without sexist learning, pink/blue, skirts/pants/ football/cooking you may see a whole different result that what you see here. There are a myriad of reasons TGs dress as they do. Sexual gratification and the subliminal things that are tagged along (mostly learned again), comfort, style and looks...all reasonable and logical to the person doing it.

I am a rebel. I am a rebel because when something is correct for one side but not the other, it is wrong. People are equal, not some more equal than others. That too is a learned response. So yes I am a rebel.

[Melissa18]

Hi Tinker
Q1, (answere) When I was 4 I saw that yellow dress hanging there, and I just had to try it on, as soon as I put it on I felt I belonged in it and I couldn't see anything wrong with wearing it. But for some unknown reason to me, I just knew I had to hide this about me and I still hide it!

Q2(answer) no! I kept dressing because I felt that I belonged in the dress! I don't get to dress that often, when I do dress I feel all my planets align and I'm me?

Adelaide

[Farrah]

I was going to say rebel, but.....I really don't know. I guess it was just different. I've always questioned the norm of anything. I don't know if that's the reason I dress or why I dress. Great question!

[devida]

Hi Tink.

You ask


Tink's Thought of The Week: :)

At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.

So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

Are you rebels?? :)

I am happy that you qualify each of your questions with a reference to social norms. I assume you understand that social norms are always in a continual state of change and they change because of social, cultural, economic, and political reasons that have nothing to do with childhood development. Social norms at any given time are purely a response to these pressures. Cursory reference to the movement in acceptability of women wearing pants proves this.

Your post is not clear on whether this is a matter that personally affects you, or perhaps one of your friends. I am going to assume that it does. Forgive me if this is just an abstract question.

Gender identity, on the other hand, along with sexual orientation and, actually sex definition as male or female itself, all reference internal psychological and biological issues. Please do not, for the health of your child, muddle the difference. If your child wears clothes that are not usually associated with his or her sex and gender despite social pressure to conform the odds are small that this is a rebellion against the enforcement of gender by social institutions. It may be a rebellion against you, in that your child may be recognizing a source of anxiety on your part and in the unending argument over power that children have with their parents chooses to non-conform. Children are extremely sensitive to parental disapproval or anxiety and their response may or may not be compliant with their parents wishes. Or it may be that your child is gender variant and does not feel comfortable within the gender role that has been chosen for him. Your child is likely to be a far better adjusted adult if you just allow him or her to explore whatever he or she (or it) feels comfortable.

I do understand these are complicated and difficult issues for parents. I have a grand child who is approaching the age where gender identity issues have started to present themselves, and not just in her, but also in my daughter, her mother. It is a hard developmental phase to traverse.

Either way, if the behavior is a rebellion against you or a true expression of gender variance your response should be the same. Be rational, non judgmental and kind. There is no upside to forcing the issue, just pain for your child and yourself.

Please do message me privately if you would like more resources for bringing up transgender and gender non conforming children. We are fortunate that there is now quite a bit on the internet.

[sometimes_miss]

Actually, I was just pointing out the typical path this takes and asking why some boys continue on with it while others don't. My idea was some might indeed be rebels, enjoying the social taboo of it all. We girls get to wear what we like by pushing social norms.
Well, not ALL of you had to push the social norms, only the pioneers of the behavior had to do that. If you need to know the difference, go to an arab country where women aren't allowed to wear pants and then discover what it REALLY means to be on the forefront of 'pushing the norms'.

Why not boys?
Because girls wearing male clothing are deemed to be trying to take a step upward in social value, and respected for their efforts, while boys are denigrated for wanting to be something less.

I'd say it's a common curiosity for boys in general.
Probably. Kids try on all kinds of outfits, wondering what it's like to wear it, if they'll somehow feel different. The real question is, how many of those boys continue to dress up in their sisters/mom's clothes and shoes? Or was it a one time thing, much the same as, say, putting on a suit of armor, or a clown costume? Curiosity is one thing; continuing to do it is something else entirely.

Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?
Initially because I was being told to, I was being trained to be someone's girlfriend. Later, it was because I thought it was the correct thing to do; by that time, I really believed that I was supposed to be a girl, that god would want me to do my best to learn how to be one, and if I did he would 'fix' me.

[VeronicaBea]

My answer for both questions is the same, and that is I do what works for me. It's not being a rebel it's just being who I am. I've been living my life that way most of the time since I was 13. The most miserable times of my life are when I changed who I am just so I can fit into society's nifty box.

[suchacutie]

As far as I cab remember, I never tried on girl clothes growing up. It just never occurred to me and the weren't readily available. At age 55 it happened as a bit of joking around that suddenly got serious. So, for me there was never a time that it was wrong.

[Sometimes Steffi]

I think at first it was a curiousity, and kind of a turn on. Why did some women have short nails, some medium length and some really long? Why did some women paint them red or silver or clear?

I knew it was wrong. There was always an omega (bottom of the social order) boy who was picked on by everyone else. I didn't defend him, because I didn't want to rescue an omega only become the omega myself. One of the tough kids came to school one day wearing red nail polish, the same color as his younger sister. He was razzed to no end at the bus stop. He claimed it was only crayon, but I didn't believe him. If one of the tough guys was brought down a couple of notches for wearing nail polish, what would happen to someone like me was in the middle. This tough guy could physically defend himself, but not me. My dad was also a homophobe, so that wouldn't be so good either. So, I knew if I wanted to do this, it had to be a big secret.

But at that age, crossdresser or transvestite was not in my vocabulary. It you wer a guy and wore women's clothes you were gay, although we used a different perjoritive word back then. And I didn't want to be gay, so I spent a lot of time thinking about whether or not wearing panties made me gay.

I used to have forced fem fantasies, which were acceptable, because it wasn't my fault. I got to dress up without being blamed.

The first time I "borrowed" one of Mom's panties, my equipment was fully functional, and I got quite a rise over it, if you catch my drift. And for the longest time, that's what is was, an alternate arousal mechanism. It pretty much went away during my later teens when I discovered a much more socially acceptable arousal mechamism. That's one of the reasons I didn't tell my fiancee before we got married. I just thiught it would go away once I was married and had as mych sex as I could handle.

So I didn't have many of the classic symptoms. I was all boy, with a slight quirk. I played baseball, football, hockey, basketball, and I wasn't the last one picked. More often than not, I was the one doing the picking.

So, Analyze that!

[flatlander_48]

At some point, boys realise these are not their clothes and they feel wrong wearing them. My H felt this, yet he continued anyway. I've read many here saying they knew it was wrong, they felt it was wrong, yet still they continued until one day wearing the clothes felt right.

Understand that the reason "they felt it was wrong" came from external sources. We were told, whether directly or indirectly, that we should not want to have anything to do with girls clothes. Otherwise, without that messagem life would have been very different.

[AKADonna]

Tink: All I know is that the first time I ever tried on Mom's lingerie, at about age 11, was the very same day that I experienced my first orgasm. I guess that wearing a bra got me so very excited that I couldn't hold back. At any rate, I must have mentally linked crossdressing with sexual satisfaction. Now, here I am more than 57 years later, still getting a thrill out of crossdressing. I love it, it is not harmful to me or anyone else and I have no plans to stop for any reason!

[Dena]

I agree with Cheryl T's post.

I have 5 older sisters and still don't know what influence that had on me other than there were always clothes around should curiosity strike. The first item I wore was when I going ice skating with my sisters and my long underwear was in the wash. My Mom had me wear a pair of my sisters' tights, I raised hell but wore them and found I liked wearing them. About this time I discovered the Dept. store catalogs and was fascinated by the lingerie section (not realizing that I was surrounded by the clothes). I began having dreams about it. The first one was I was looking through a catalog and came across a picture of 3 men in t shirts and half slips! I don't know how long I looked for that catalog before realizing it was a dream. Then I would have dreams that instead of being naked, I would dream I was in public wearing only a full slip! This went on until I had my own clothes.

I was 10 years old before I tried on a pair of nylon panties, and loved how they felt. I never felt anything like it!

I would try on my sister's clothes, feel guilty and vow to never do it again. I enjoyed it so much, I was unable to stop.
I was also unable to quiet my mind from thinking about it until I put together my own wardrobe,

[Deborah]

I figured out really quickly it felt right and wished i could dress and be all the time.... a GG

[VickiTheGamer]

I know that when I started I was somewhere around 5 or so. I know this because I was not yet in Kindergarten. I was very much like a girl emotionally, but I could never let anyone know it. Dressing let me achieve two things. I did it in secret though out of fear of my Parents and Brothers. Now that I am older though, I think I understand more of why I started. Dressing up let me express the girl inside of me, and it was a secret escape. I didn't like myself, hated myself to be more precise. So dressing up let me escape who I was and let me be who I felt I wanted to be. Like a mini-runaway from home and me (but in secret).

As I got older (High School), it turned into an odd Safe Place to go. I was not me, I was able to be the person I wanted to be and on top of that, I was comfortable, secure, and hidden.

After I was done in college, I found it to be sexually stimulating as well. No idea why that happened so late in my life but it did. So, not only was it a place of comfort but of pleasure too.

Once away from family I was able to dress when I wanted to because I was in my own home, where no one could see, judge, or punish me. Over the years the dressing let me express the feminine side of which, developed emotionally. Once I was away from family long enough I was able to be "me". I found that I was a great deal more feminine and that I wanted to express that feminine side both emotionally and physically. Personality wise, I became more feminine. Now that I am an adult, I am the "Me" I wanted to be when I was a kid.

[Judith96a]

By the time I was 7 my parents, family, friends etc had all very effectively conveyed the message that boys wear boys' clothes (and since we were not highland Scots boys clothes did not include kilts!) and girls wear girls' clothes (which at that time included anything remotely trouser-shaped only under extreme duress!). And forget makeup or jewellery! However, that didn't stop my fascination with all things feminine. But this fascination had to be carefully concealed because teenage boys do not accept "difference" - you conform or you suffer (unless/until you're big enough to inflict significant, legitimate, pain on the rugby field). Combine a fascination with all things feminine and zero success with girls...? And yes, all of my peers rebelled, it's what teenagers do! For the majority the instruments of rebellion were sex, drink and ciggies. For me it was (secretly) skirts & dresses!

By the way, my brain may be far too 'male' to 'get it' but it seems to me that trying to understand 'why' borders on being futile. I'm not convinced that any of us REALLY understand why (especially why we started). There is a sense in which asking "why did you start" suggests that if you had a functioning time machine you'd go back and "fix" "it", whatever "it" may be! If I ever were to be in the position that my wife knew about my cross dressing and was even tolerating it (that would be incredibly fantastic), I'm not sure that I would WANT to be "fixed". I might want to go back to when we first met and tell her about Judith THEN but I'm not sure that I'd want to be changed.

Just my 2d
Judith xx

[dana digs sweaters]

Ignore all the social clues?
You mean like reruns of Uncle Milty?
Flip Wilson doing Geraldine every week?
Klinger from MASH?

I dressed because it was fun. My sisters laughed with me, Not at me.
So did our mother when we were goofing around with our characters in front of her.
So I did not crossdress in front of other because the clothes were too nice for riding a dirtbike, playing football & hockey, fishing and all the others things we did that got us dirty/sweaty.

To be a rebel, I would've started a gang for boys in girl's clothes.

[Byron]

So my first question is: Why, at such a young and impressionable age (most here were children, I believe) did you ignore all the social cues that it was wrong and kept dressing anyway?

I never really struggled with any guilt, it always felt right to me right from the beginning. What I always struggled with and still do occasional to this day is the "Why do I do it?" That can be just a frustrating when a self examination of ones experiences in life offers no obvious reasons for it.


Second, do you think it's possible you kept crossdressing because it was considered socially wrong?

This is most certainly a possibility. there has always been a level of "I don't care what society says" when it comes to most things in life, and dressing being a part of that.

[AprilMayy<3]

I really don't know why I didn't stop. I knew my entire family would be against it, and I would have to hide it. I honestly don't know why I continued. Whatever my subconscious reasoning, I'm glad I did continue, lol.
I don't think I kept doing it because it was wrong. I knew it was, but I kept doing it, but not BECAUSE it was wrong. I think that's every CD'ers biggest question to themselves, "Why did I start and continue doing this??" haha!
Awesome questions Tink!

[Katey888]

I think I'm just building on a lot of similar answers here, but anyway...

Firstly - it never felt wrong then - at a very young age it was just something I wanted to do... I had no exposure to sisters so trying on the girls' hats at school (yes, it was as innocent seeming as that...) was something I had to try... at school, and in secret... I don't think as a really young child I cared much about social cues (but Zylia is right too - my memory is far from complete around those details...)

Secondly - how could I be rebelling if no-one knew about it? As successful a rebel as the People's Front of Judea suicide squad... :eek: I think I kept doing it because it didn't feel wrong, and then when the sexual thing kicked in (surprised the heck out of me when it did, I seem to recall!) I might have thought or realised it was wrong, but by then it was just too good... :D

Katey x

[DonnaT]

I knew it was something I shouldn't do, but was compelled to do anyway. Even before then, I saw a neighbor girl my age (6) and her younger brother playing in the basement of their house, and he was fully dressed up. I immediately wished I was in his place.

I didn't have the chance, or even think about it, later, until I was 9 or 10. I found some of my mother's old things in the basement, and without hesitation, tried them on.

I haven't stopped since then.

I never felt it was wrong, but I knew I'd be embarrassed if caught. 4 brothers.

Why then did I keep dressing? The 60 million dollar question. The only answer I have is - because I am trans in some degree. Some people are left handed, some right handed; some people are trans to some degree some are not. And for the same reason, I kept right on CDing, even if I didn't know why, I just had too. And I enjoyed it.