Would you consider yourself to fall under the term "male lesbian"?

[Krististeph]

I've run across this term (or a variant of it) a number times over the years, and it seems to me to be an apt description for myself, or at least many of the aspects of it. I know that labels can be misleading, so I'm not saying this is a catch-all for anyone, but rather an expansion of how one sees themselves.

I get a large percentage (80~90%) of agreement whenever I mention this term to CD acquaintances of mine, so it seems to me that either this is a largely overlooked phenomenon with CDs in general, or that I seem to associate more with people who just happen to think of themselves as fitting the description to a large degree.

What aspects of the term might you agree or align with?

[Beverley Sims]

Kristeph,
Too much deep thinking here for me to even consider it.
I don't know what box I would be put in to, but I think a pine box about six feet long is waiting for me somewhere.
I am not ready to occupy that either yet. :)

[mariehart]

I'm not sure how lesbians might react to that!:straightface:

[heatherdress]

"A lesbian is a female homosexual; a female who experiences romantic love or sexual attraction to other females. The term lesbian is also used with regard to sexual identity or sexual behavior, or as an adjective to characterize or associate nouns with female homosexuality or same-sex attraction." Wikipedia definition.

Since MTF crossdressers are not females the term is inaccurate and gimmicky. But if you are a male crossdresser and are attracted to females (i.e. - heterosexual), it may appear that your behavior is consistent with a female who is lesbian.

Personally, I don't like the term "male lesbian" because it seems gimmicky and also because it feels a bit offensive and condescending to women who are lesbian.

[bridget thronton]

I think this is why many people define gender as a multidimensional space. There is your self image, the people you are attracted to, the way you choose to present, the people to choose to have sex with, etc. In my best world I would present as female but continue to be romantically involved with one female in particular (my wife of 39 years)

[Teresa]

Krististeph,
I'm not going to get hung up on labels, but earlier on in my CDing and trying to work it out I wondered how far on the female side was I ? and because I was still attracted to GGs did it make me a male lesbian ? I know my therapist pooh poohed it and perhaps it is the wrong label but I still think there's something in it. We have a few crossed wires so in our brains we can imagine and think that we can slot into so many categories!

[CrossJess]

No not male lesbian, didn't even realize there was such a thing, the fact I like guys would rule me out of "lesbian" then again it depends on what "you" mean by your question? if what I'm thinking is correct then I can see where your coming from though.....Mind you I don't know what that would make me "Male Gay"?? lol :battingeyelashes:

[jjmetro]

wouldn't that just be a hetero crossdresser? unless you are transitioning...... really depends on how you define hetero/homo sexuality. I am female at home, male in the "real world", and hetero sexual....... So if i were to find a woman that would accept my feminine self in bed, I guess male lesbian would fit in that situation.

[kimdl93]

personally I think its rather silly. If I were to undergo SRS and continue to be attracted to women, then I would consider myself Lesbian. Until them, I'm a heterosexual.

[MssHyde]

I mostly feel like a woman in a male body (I want to look like a woman) I want to experience things as a woman..

the twist on it is I'm only attracted to women...I want to be her and or be with her..

the face and mind are to two things I look for first and second, after that comes the way it all fits together..
some women can really get under my skin..

[Lorileah]

never ever ever. It is disrespectful to lesbian women. You are not a lesbian, you are a male who likes women. If you are post OP TS, you are a lesbian without the modifier of male. I hate this term. they parts are mutually exclusive

[Confucius]

I am a heterosexual cross-dresser.

It's that simple and there is no need to confuse the issue, or redefine "lesbian".

[AnneC]

All I know is I like women, enough to want to be like them. But I also am attracted to them. Whatever that means.

[missVS]

AnneC comments are similar to my belief. I love woman and try to dress like one. I like womans clothing jewelry makeup heels stockings etc. I am still a normal hetero male so I do not believe I am a male lesbian.

[Kate Simmons]

Why can't we all just be ourselves? I think sometimes we think too much instead of just being who we are.:)

[devida]

If you want to call yourself or someone else wants to call themselves (xieselves, whatever) a lesbian I think that's fine. But the term presupposes that you identify as a woman. If you do not identify as a woman the term is an appropriation. This is a problem with gender variant and gender fluid people who may, depending on the day, their mood, the time of year?, really fully identify as women and then, puzzlingly, as male. So I am going to say that if, at the moment you define yourself as a lesbian, you really do feel you are a woman the identification is not appropriation. You are, at that moment, a lesbian. But, be warned, when you feel like a man and a dfab (defined at birth) woman who is a lesbian calls you on it, you better be able to raise up that woman pretty damn fast.

Sorry, male lesbian is BS, see definitions already cited.

Note: Being a woman does not require female genitalia, being a man does not require male. Being a gay male homosexual does not require having a penis, being a lesbian does not require a vagina. Primary sexual characteristics are not gender and may not even be hard and fast rules for sex identification, which many transgender, agender, and intersected people will happily explain.

[suchacutie]

I also don't understand this term. As a noncrossdressing male, one could be heterosexual or gay (leaving bisexual out as it would be applicable in all cases). As a mtf transsexual (living as a woman) heterosexual or lesbian logically applies. The obverse would be the case for ftm transexuals.

For the rest of us who fall into the situation where we live in both genders, we are heterosexual, but would appear to be lesbian if we acted as such while dressed. Linking the word male with the word lesbian just can't work.

Many of us as mtf are still attracted to women, a nd that's probably the easiest way to say it.

[ArleneRaquel]

I really dislike the term "male lesbian."

[Katey888]

Wouldn't this be like having a bovine parrot or a feline lizard? :doh:

I think it's all been said before my pennethworth...

The only aspect of the term I agree and align with is 'male'... :)

Katey x

[Sandra]

If I ever had SRS I'd wind up being labeled a lesbian, I just love ladies too much! But labels just box you in.

If you were TS then you still wouldn't be a male lesbain as TS's are not males.


How can a male be a lesbian when lesbian is a female homosexual...

[Samantha Clark]

I think that "male" refers to natal assigned sex, so a person could identify as male lesbian only if the person also self identified as transwoman (at whatever stage of transition). Otherwise the term male lesbian does not make any sense. I don't identify as male lesbian because my gender identity is as a man even though I like to wear women's clothes.

[Deedee Skyblue]

There are a lot of descriptions that literally 'do not make any sense' if you break them down logically, but they accurately convey the message the sender means to convey. I understand perfectly what the term 'male lesbian' is trying to convey.

Deedee

[Samantha Clark]

Exactly. I only tried to put a fine point on the logic of the expression since another poster stated that a male could not be a lesbian.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Krististeph,

I'm a male crossdresser, that is straight, and is attracted to women. I want to become a woman, but I still want to love being with at least one woman. So, I guess that means that I am a "male lesbian".

P.S. You look amazing in your avatar pic!

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Krististeph, I'm not a male lesbian but if I was I would want to be a Lipstick Lesbian.

[Marcelle]

... What aspects of the term might you agree or align with?

Hi Krististeph . . . thinking, thinking, :thinking: . . . to be honest sweetie, the only part of this term I could align with is "male". :) :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[Paula_Femme]

I've run across this term... a number times over the years, and it seems to me to be an apt description for myself...

The first time I heard the term was from the always wonderful Eddie Izzard many years ago, and I've used it myself, on and off, just as he did, as a humorous way of describing my own sexuality when "dressed."

The first time I used it was at the Folsom Street Fair in San Francisco, I was en femme and chilling outside a bar listening to a band when a leather guy walked up and started chatting about the festival. He obviously "assumed" I was gay or at least bi - no harm, no foul, no offense taken - and put his arm 'round my waist, I shrugged and said, "Sorry mate, Male Lesbian!" with a smile. He quickly whipped his arm back, and we chatted for a few minutes more before going our separate ways.

I've mainly used the term in the past to describe myself to "vanilla" potential partners, as a way of explaining that I'm not gay/bi/undecided... they've all "got it!" :heehee:

I'm sorry that some people on the forum seem to be offended by the term, I don't use it to denigrate Lesbians or TS's, far from it... I guess I'm just not very PC. :)

[NavyM2F_WAM]

Hi Krististeph, I'm not a male lesbian but if I was I would want to be a Lipstick Lesbian.

I totally agree. I love wearing lipstick, other makeup, dresses, hosiery, and high heels. If I was a "butch" one, I might as well stay a guy.


Hi Krististeph . . . thinking, thinking, :thinking: . . . to be honest sweetie, the only part of this term I could align with is "male".

Isha,

You have to stop putting yourself down, or else you might start believing what you post. There are all types of women, and there are all types of M2F crossdressers and transgendered men.

[I Am Paula]

It must have been at about age twelve, when adolescents are discovering, and talking about sex, that I started hearing "I must be a lesbian, cause I love girls". It was only marginally funny then. It did not age well.
If you are a CD, an attraction to women makes you straight. I know straight is boring, and SO last year, but sometimes you have to face that fact.

[Zylia]

I dunno. I guess if you mostly identify as male or you consider yourself male because of your biological sex, BUT you're only sexually and/or romantically attracted to women if you're in a female or feminine gender role yourself, you could consider yourself a "male lesbian". In the end, the genderbread person has more than one or two sliders (http://webaffair.net/genderbread/) and words and meanings of words evolve as well.

[susmitha]

I do not know whether I am male lesbian. But I know that I like to be in female clothes and in the female role in the bed room. My GG partner should be in male clothes And male role while making love to me.

[Tracii G]

Just another silly term floating around out there.

[Lorileah]

OK, all you "Male Lesbians" here is the test. You know that man part? Uh huh the one women don't have but CDers always want to hide. Lesbians don't have those, so next time you are intimate, remember if you are a lesbian, no touch, no use that part. Try it, most of you won't last 5 minutes as a lesbian

[mikiSJ]

A lesbian is a female homosexual; a female who experiences romantic love or sexual attraction to other females. The term lesbian is also used with regard to sexual identity or sexual behavior, or as an adjective to characterize or associate nouns with female homosexuality or same-sex attraction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian
By the above definition, unless you identify as a woman, you cannot be a lesbian. My wife is having great difficulty with Miki being in her life because Miki identifies as a woman, is starting to physically look like an woman and my wife is not a lesbian and does not want a lesbian relationship.

When I only crossdressed, she was tolerant of the CDing as I was a male in bed, and elsewhere in my daily life.

So, there are no male lesbians.

[NicoleScott]

A lesbian is a female homosexual
By the above definition, unless you identify as a woman, you cannot be a lesbian.

A lesbian is a female, not someone (a male) who identifies as being a woman.
So, if you are not a female, you cannot be a lesbian. Except in your own fantasies, of course.

[missmars]

I like the term "male lesbian."

[Athena_]

In the interest of humor only, and with no intent on being insensitive.

I had a conversation with a management peer of mine about 12 years ago. She was a declared lesbian at a time when it was less tolerated than today. We were having a late evening conversation in the parking garage. The subject of her being a lesbian was being discussed. I told her then that I admired her bravery in that she knew what she was in a world that was not welcoming of her situation. We had many a frank discussion over the months we worked together. I nearly told her about my cross dressing, but couldn't take that step. I think she was able to read me pretty well though. Her comment one night was that she thought that I was "A Lesbian trapped in the Body of a Man". I think that she meant it as a compliment.:)

[Paula_Femme]

Her comment one night was that she thought that I was "A Lesbian trapped in the Body of a Man". I think that she meant it as a compliment.:)

I think she probably did! :heehee:

[Samantha Clark]

Language can be a slippery and elusive thing, especially when considering concepts like sex, gender and sexual orientation.

Despite some posts here I believe that, according to the thinking in modern gender studies, a male lesbian is someone who had a natally assigned male sex who self identifies as a woman in gender and has (as a woman) a homosexual sexual orientation. In other words, a transwoman (at whatever stage of transition) who is attracted to women, romantically or sexually (or both).

It is not necessary to be GG to be lesbian. That thinking perpetuates out dated notions that do not distinguish between sex and gender and sexual orientation.

Sorry for the long post but there seems to be some unnecessary confusion around this subject here.

[Lorileah]

A lesbian is a female, not someone (a male) who identifies as being a woman.
So, if you are not a female, you cannot be a lesbian. Except in your own fantasies, of course.

I assume you re not intentionally trying to anger the TSs here, right? Exactly what would you call a TS who is attracted to women only?:waiting: Or you are saying that TSs are female and therefore fit being a lesbian? Be careful which pill you choose :bringiton:

[Miranda09]

I agree with Lori here. Basically, as far as non-transitioning individuals, when the clothes come off, you are a male and she is a female!! This pretty much eliminates you as a lesbian....... ;)

[TessaGirl]

I agree about all issues with the term male lesbian. But reverse lesbian actually means something
totally different:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=reverse%20lesbian

[NicoleScott]

I assume you re not intentionally trying to anger the TSs here, right?

No, I'm not. I was pointing out that Miki used female in the definition of lesbian, but then referred to "identify as a woman". Identifying as a woman doesn't make a female, according to definitions that a female is the sex that can bear young or produce eggs (and other sources use body parts ..vagina, uterus..in their definitions). I see TS's as women - more precisely transwomen - but not female. I have no problem with calling a TS who is attracted to a woman a lesbian. It just doesn't fit the definition Miki provided.

[Krististeph]

Great answers, thank you all!

Perhaps this refinement would be better:

Male CD/TG/TS with a desire or proclivity to imagine they could be lesbian, were it somehow possible

A noumenon rather than a phenomenon.