Is it worth correcting?

[Cheyenne Skye]

The "Trans acceptance" thread got me thinking and I didn't want to derail it.

So I was having issues with my cable box. I went to the local customer service center and swapped it for a new one. While there, everything was fine. (When you get there you sign in and they call your name when it's your turn.) When I got to the counter, the lady was very nice and said "What can I do for you, Miss Dana?" Left with a smile on my face.

When I got home and hooked it up, I had to call to get the box activated. I tried the automated system but it still didn't work so I called back to talk to a real person. First thing was that the guy said his name was "Frank" but you could tell English was not his native tongue (if you know what I mean). He proceeded to ask questions to verify the account first. He asked what name was on the account to which I answered, "Dana B*******" (I just changed it with them last month.) Then the address and phone number. Then he said "What is your name sir since you are not this 'Daana' (that's how he pronounced it) on the account?" I said sharply, "It's Dana, and yes I am." He then asks for the last four digits of my social to further verify who I am. As he goes through the steps to activate the box, he keeps pausing and saying things like "thank you for your patience, sir", "please wait a moment ,sir". I was getting pretty pissed by the end of the call. I did not however, outright correct him. I really didn't think it was worth it. I think in this case if I did, it would have been a lost cause. He probably would have gone back to sir immediately after correcting him.

When we come out we use words like authentic to describe who we are attempting to be seen as. To me, that includes not trying to use a fake sounding voice to make people think of me as female. I feel that my voice would always be a dead giveaway that I'm trans, but I'm not ashamed of it. (Some women have deep voices too.)

Should I have corrected this idiot? Are there other situations where you feel it's not worth your time to correct someone who is misgendering you?

[Andy66]

I try to pick my battles wisely. If I think arguing with someone will frustrate me and not solve anything, I dont even bother.

[Kimberly Kael]

There are times when I don't bother because there's was clearly no malice and nothing to be gained. I was certainly misgendered with some regularity on the phone early in my transition. The one thing I wouldn't settle for is feeling deliberately slighted. I think it's important to stand up for yourself and so I'd do so politely, but firmly. If anyone ever made an issue of it, something that never happened, I would have been prepared to demand to speak with a supervisor.

[FurPus63]

O.K. here we go again. I have written several posts on this. Misgendering on the phone is horrible! No matter how hard I try to use my best female/femmine voice I still get "sir" a lot. Even when I tell them at the beginning of the conversation "my name is Paulette" and I know my account info is right in front of their face. They can read it on the screen for Pete's sake! They still will come back with "sir." I have told more than my share of phone operators/customer service reps "I am not a sir, my name is Paulette." Now at this point they usually apologize and correct themselves, but sometimes I've still had idiots continue to call me "sir" and if they do, I usually hang-up and try again. Mostly because I feel at that point they are either A. The biggest stupid a** in the world or B. Just giving me a hard time. Either way I don't want to deal with them anymore. I've gotten pretty upset sometimes and said some pretty aweful things to people, like calling a man a obviously female name or just cussed them out! I'm sorry. But when it's gotten to the point where they are obviously being a smart a** or being disrespectful towards me. I just can't take it anymore and do go off on them.

Is it worth it? I don't know. I do know that it does make me feel better when I do correct them rather than not. Now here's something else that I 've noticed. I get misgendered a lot more by males than females. So, what's up with that I wonder?

Paulette

[arbon]

Generally yes I will try to correct people, on the phone or in person. Actually thinking about it does not come up very often for me anymore, at least not outside of work.

There have been exceptions - some work related (I've just had to deal with it) but also with some family like my brother, sister, and mom who still struggle with it I decided it was okay and don't try to correct them anymore. With them it does not bother me to much.

[Aprilrain]

I would have corrected him. That being said I don't generally get sired on the phone, probably because of my "fake sounding" female voice. You will always be frustrated if you do not put the effort into your transition. It's up to us to let the rest of the world know we are female. You can shout "I'm a girl" from the roof tops all you want but if you do it with a mans voice don't expect the rest of us to believe you. Just sayin.

[celeste26]

I suspect that those telephone customer service people read from and memorize scripts, it maybe the only English they know. Once they memorize the 'Sir' it sticks like glue. It is all part and parcel of dealing with telephone customer service people. They cant see you, and for lack of any other clues they just fall into the 'sir' as a habit. So unless you talk to their supervisor nothing will ever change.

[Angela Campbell]

I generally take it as a clue that I need to be more careful with my voice and work a little harder. It's not their fault I don't sound right. I will correct them but if it continues I will misgender them.

[Frances]

Yes. You can tell him that you are trans and to address you in the correct gender. Eventually, you name will be changed in all the paperwork and it will not matter. Right now, you are the in-between phase where there is a lot of self-affirming required.

[I Am Paula]

Yesterday I was attempting to change my name on my Bell cell phone acct. (To anyone that has not yet tried this...good luck) I spoke to a polite, yet clueless, operator for a while who kept calling me Sir. When, on the fourth, or fifth time around explaining why I wanted to change to my new legal name, she suddenly exclaimed "Have you changed sex, Sir?"
Aside from the ironic misgendering, she was getting the idea. "That's Ma'am, but yes, just change it from Mr. Paul to Ms. Paula". The conversation went around a few more times, including her insistence that Bell Canada does not have an email address, and I must find a FAX machine somewhere, to send my name change.

However...She called me Ma'am for the rest of the call.

Post script- Bell Canada does not recognize name, and/or sex designation changes. It's easier to just keep getting billed in your male name.

[Angela Campbell]

I had to drop Verizon because they refused to work with me. They were rude as well.
The lady kept calling me sir so after correcting her a few times I started calling her sir.

It didn't go well

[Aprilrain]

I didn't have any problems changing my name or being misgendered by Verizon or any other utility. Usually the problem was getting them to believe that I was who I said I was. I'd get comments like, "ma'am, we will need to speak to your husband"

[Rianna Humble]

I have refusaed to deal with people who constantly misgender me despite correction. On more than one occasion, I have phoned in a complaint so that a supervisor can here me correcting the other person and hear their CSA's refusal to accept what I say.

[mikiSJ]

Yes, pick your fights where you have chance of at least hitting back. Chastising someone in India, Phillipines, or even Idaho and Nebraska is not going to get you any closer to getting your problem solved - which at this time is getting your STB set up and not be referred to in your preferred gender.

If you want to continue your fight, then call up the provider and demand that they send a technician out to your house. When they ask if you tried their telephone support line tell them 'yes, but the individual I spoke to named Frank, was very rude and it upset me!'

Of course, if you do this, you won't have any cable reception until the technician actually shows up and then the calculus regarding your satisfaction becomes very weird.

[Eryn]

The question is, "Will correcting this person help or hurt me or the community in the long run?"

You are unlikely to talk to that tech support person again, so there is nothing to be gained personally. The community may benefit if the misgendering is addressed diplomatically. If it is treated nastily we lose ground as that person will gain the impression of the "nasty tranny" and will likely share it with their friends.

Misgendering happens. I do it myself and I'm extremely conscious of the hurt it can cause. The people I've misgendered know that a slip of my tongue is not malice or disrespect, just a glitch in the wetware. If we go ballistic on everyone who accidentally misgenders us we'll have few friends.

[arbon]

You are unlikely to talk to that tech support person again, so there is nothing to be gained personally. The community may benefit if the misgendering is addressed diplomatically. If it is treated nastily we lose ground as that person will gain the impression of the "nasty tranny" and will likely share it with their friends.


How would they know you are a tranny? If you correct them at the get go, I am a woman, not a man, then it should end there. Trans women, like any other women, would not want to go through a long phone conversation with someone who keeps calling them sir. You don't have to tell them you are trans, there would be absolutely no reason to.

[Frances]

It's a personal thing, I guess. I can only speak for myself. I did not tolerate, ever. Not in person, not on the phone. I did not happen much, though, thank dog.

[Cheyenne Skye]

But when he asked who I was, he seemed like he thought the account holder was a woman. So when I told him it was me, why should that assumption change.

[Frances]

Because you did not sound like a woman to him over the phone. I don't understand the question?

[Eryn]

How would they know you are a tranny? If you correct them at the get go, I am a woman, not a man, then it should end there.

Point taken and you are correct. People have to go by the voice and name. In this case the name is no help since it is androgynous. The voice, once it has been processed and sent to the Far East isn't likely to be much help either. A polite person would take the hint on the first correction and use the correct gender.

However, in this case you're dealing with "Frank" in Bangalore and the goal is to get one's Cable running. Perhaps it is not the time to worry about gender sensitivity. I don't care if I get called "sir," "ma'am," or "Your Holiness" as long as I get the info I need.

This dredges up a memory of being misgendered the other way on the phone as an adolescent. For someone trying so desperately at the time to be male it was distressing. Beware of wishes, sometimes they come true!

[Kali]

FWIW, my wife has been "sir'd" on the phone for most of her life. I don't get it because she doesn't sound masculine to me, but it happens regularly. When she corrects a native English speaker, they rarely "sir" her again, when it's a call center in a non-primarily English speaking country, they go back to calling her "Sir" most of the time.

The fact that her name changes to male by dropping the last letter, doesn't help. She often gets calls asking for him, when he doesn't, and has never, existed.

[Rogina B]

how would they know you are a tranny? If you correct them at the get go, i am a woman, not a man, then it should end there. Trans women, like any other women, would not want to go through a long phone conversation with someone who keeps calling them sir. You don't have to tell them you are trans, there would be absolutely no reason to.
absolutely!!!

[Aprilrain]

How would they know you are a tranny? If you correct them at the get go, I am a woman, not a man, then it should end there.

If you have a more androgynous voice yes but most voices are clearly male or female. We instinctively know the difference. It's not really about pitch so much as timbre, resonance, and just the basic differences in the way men and women talk. We can comfort ourselves with the fact that there are outliers to the normal range of female, all day long, but that won't get you very far in the real world. Some of these things we can do nothing about, like height, but others we can, like voice.

Having a female voice is fundamental to ones quality of life post transition. I don't understand why so many TS women neglect this area, it's basically the only part of transition that's free!

[LeaP]

Voice is huge and is one area where I am definitely NOT blessed. I would answer the phone at 14 and a caller would launch into a business discussion, assuming I was my father. I was "complimented" yesterday at work on my deep voice ...

[gonegirl]

Free voices? Can I have Scarlett Johansson's please?

I fell hopelessly in love with her voice in the film "Her". A rather appropriate title!

Oh, and yes I correct people if I'm mis gendered. It has nothing to do with any community spirit, or lack if it.

[Angela Campbell]

I guess the distinction would be whether you wanted to live as a woman or as a trans woman. (In the subject of changing your voice)

[LeaP]

Are you suggesting that's somehow a good thing, Johanna? I'm not judging your choice, because I know it IS choice. But as a general comment, I believe all a deep male voice (and a deep male voice is different than a deep woman's voice) creates is sharp gender dissonance.

[stefan37]

I am living as a woman. I get called him as often if not more than her. I have many male facial characteristics. The only thing that pushes how people gender me is my voice. I have NO transsexual friends that are not distressed with their voice if it sounds male.

Talking and sounding male is extremely distressing which is why I am devoting so much time and practice.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Alexis Arquette?? really??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg-QvxAQjPs

You can't just make up stuff and be credible...no transsexual I have ever met was intent on keeping their male voice as much as possible..none

[Starling]

I think it's wise to remember that, as celeste26 said, the customer support people we talk to in mostly Third World countries are not native speakers of Standard English, make a meager wage, work from a mandatory script which they are reluctant to deviate from, and probably talk to hundreds of people every day, many of whom call with a bug up their attitude. They are not the enemy. We should save our energy to deal with the people who make a point of demeaning us in person.

:) Lallie

[Hope]

Whether or not it is worth correcting (and how) is a complicated, personal decision that you have to make for yourself, and it can vary by situation. But I will add that it can be extremely empowering to stand up for yourself.

Personally - with clients I never correct them - they pay the bill, they get to call me anything they want, but with colleagues - they get it right, or they learn how to get it right.