Boundaries: A One-Way or Two-Way Street ? (All replies welcome)

[Marcelle]

Disclaimer: LONG WINDED ISHA POST :blah:. Hi all, this post is providing an opinion to a potentially touchy topic which flavours this forum quite a lot. It is not meant to insult anyone, start an argument or launch a flaming session. I have come to find this forum a great place to debate (maturely) the merits of this thing we do. I find by engaging in dialogue in a civil manner it helps everyone here understands both sides of the coin. It might not change your opinion (and so it should not) but at least we all get better informed and can have a "hmm, never looked at it that way" moment. So while I welcome counter arguments, personal opinions , disagreement and so forth, I would ask that if you are just going to leave a "smarmy comment" without so much as a counter argument then please keep that to yourself as it does not add anything and only serves to send a post on a tangent of "Yeah what she said". However, if you are so inclined to want to leave an Arnold Schwarzenegger one liner (I'll be back :devil:) please PM with that and we can discuss off line and leave the post to serious discussion. Thanks :)

Yesterday my wife and I took the day off from work to hang with our separate groups of friends. Now we have done this once a month for our entire marriage and on those days I normally do something with guy friends but yesterday it was with GG friends who know about Isha. So for me that included meeting for lunch, shopping, back to a friend's house for a make-up refresh, change and out for drinks and jazz music at a local establishment. Early in my disclosure to my wife one of the things she can no longer do is "go out with me when I am dressed". This is not because she is embarrassed or ashamed but because she does not want to be put in a potential position where she may have to witness me getting hurt emotionally or physically. As background she went out once with me very early but we had a very bad experience and this scared her. However, she also knows that Isha exploring the vanilla world is important to me so we compromised in that if I wish to go out as Isha on these mutual outing nights we just keep in "text contact" to ensure we don't bump into each other accidently. This is also because she has friends she would prefer do not know about Isha (and I respect that). So this got me thinking about boundaries.

The concept of boundaries comes up in threads a lot. It is normally the first advice given to new folks who have come out to their respective SOs "You need to set boundaries/guidelines/rules". I truly believe this is the wisest thing a couple can do. However, is this a "one-way street" (one person decides the extent) or a "two-way street" (mutual agreement/compromise)?

I have read a lot of posts on this subject and while the consensus seems to be "two-way" I do note that some believe one person (SO or CDer) needs to set the boundaries without so much as a by your leave to the other party. Unfortunately, I cannot follow that logic as that is putting the power of one person's life solely in the hands of another person. Seriously who would ever accept such a condition? :confused: As well, I find the belief spouted by some (both SOs and CDers) that the CDer has to accept all conditions laid out without any argument or say, a bit draconian and could be seen as declaring "What you do is wrong, bad, odd, weird and now you have to accept conditions because you are wrong, bad, odd, weird". Seems kind of counterintuitive to what some proclaim as an accepting relationship and of course the mantra that"We are just normal folk who dress differently"

IMHO boundaries when it comes to relationships, although necessary (you need these in everyday life regardless of whether you are CD or not) must be mutually agreed upon for them to work or have any value. This is especially so (IMO) when it comes to CDing. This is not to say the SO does not have the right to say "I don't want to see you dressed" (which is a reasonable boundary). However, then the compromise has to be "I don't want to see you dressed so do it when I am not here, or go elsewhere" not "I don't want to see you dressed so don't do it ever". Nor should a CDer proclaim "I want to dress complete en femme so take it or leave it"

My point is there are two sides to this equation and regardless of how you got to that point (later in the relationship or immediate disclosure) the setting of boundaries has to be mutual. If boundaries are forced from a position of one-sided power (SO or CDer) how long do you think it will take before the relation transcends into destruction? The person who is having the boundary forced on them may acquiesce at first but if it is causing emotional distress it will simmer, then boil and then finally boil over into an argument. This will lead nowhere fast. If boundaries cannot be agreed upon and one party is not able to compromise or an accord cannot be reached then I hate to say it but perhaps the relationship is not ready to incorporate this thing we do and exit visas may be imminent from either party. I am not trying to sound all doom and gloom but more so pragmatic, as this happens in everyday vanilla relationships . . . one partner does not like something the other partner does, arguments, mediation, no resolution, separation and divorce . . . it happens everyday in the world and we are no different. IMO it is no good to accept boundaries which you know you cannot keep or live with as the emotional distress will lead to a self and eventually mutual destruction. If you cannot agree then it might be time to revaluate the relationship.

So yes boundaries are a important as they avoid confusion and potential arguments. However IMO, these have to be mutually agreed upon to have any value in the relationship. One-sided demands (SO or CDer) without a willingness to compromise seems (IMHO) selfish and controlling. Now before someone wants to hang me on my own petard by saying "But isha, what if the CDer was lying for years, then the SO has the right to force boundaries because the CDer has given up their say". This is not the intent of the post, how you got to the point in your relationship for setting boundaries is moot. However, if I have to respond I will do so now. IMHO, just because it did not come out until later it does not mean one party has the right to have supreme control over the other. If the realization that a person CDs is so abhorrent to the SO then perhaps it is time to close the books and move on. If the sole purpose is to "punish" the CDer for his/her transgression then I am afraid the relationship is in a bad place already. However, if both parties truly wish to salvage the relationship then they have to work forward mutually not in a controlling manner as that will only just breed bitterness in the party being controlled.

So I will now yield the soapbox and please don't forget to read the disclaimer at the beginning of the post. :battingeyelashes:

Hugs

Isha

[Donnagirl]

I can only agree. Communication, compromise, education, understanding, support, respect and more communication have worked wonders for the relationship my and my SO share. From near irreparable damage, we have rebuilt to where the boundaries are mutually consented to, minimal and in reality intuitive and sensible. A selfish or unyielding attitude is counter productive unless separation is your goal.

[MissTee]

Interesting thoughts, Isha. Put me in the "two way" camp. I feel that for it to work, the boundaries must be mutually established and also respected. For example, I've read in a few threads things like, "Yes, we have boundaries, but she's not here this day/weekend so I did it any way and she'll never know . . ." That, to me, defies one purpose in setting boundaries -- which is to build and sustain trust in the relationship.

I'll also add that boundaries should always be a two way, work-in-progress. Things change, we change, our relationships change. Thus, our boundaries should remain malleable.

Lastly, when boundaries meet the pink fog, chaos can ensue. It is that way with any other single focused, near maniacal pursuit (such as golfing, fishing, sports in general) that clouds our judgement so completely that it has us cast away logic and reason. So, it pays to know the warning signs and to talk about how to respond before things get out of hand.

Hope that didn't sound like a discussion of the boundaries around setting boundaries :thinking:

[Beverley Sims]

Isha,
It is late and I did skim through the post.

I do agree boundaries are a two way street and dialogue is always the best way to work out a compromise.
I also agree that nights out with friends separately is also good.
I do not think there needs to be a compromise here and we should be free to do our own bidding.
Some things in marriages wrankle me when it is my turn to do the washing I usually get away with it as I fixed the door risked my life on the roof and electrocuted myself ten times last week.

It is like you in the services duty calls and there is no question about leaving the wife to paint the house for now.

I abhor arguments like you have been on manouvers all week and I want you to stay home whilst I go out, why not go your respective ways and get it all over with, there is always tomorrow and you may not be in the service forever.

So compromise is a two way street otherwise it leads to disharmony and breakup of a good relationship.

I don't rule my wife, and I don't think she rules me. :)

[Teresa]

Isha I have to totally agree with you, it's so difficult to get it right on both sides.
We all know a Cder can't change his spots and Cding is not the fault of the partner. He intentionally does not want to hurt and harm anyone but it's so easy to make him the total ogre and home wrecker. It's all too easy for the partner to feed off the guilt and shame and make them totally accepting of all the demands handed out to them. I also speak from experience when you hit total desperation, I didn't want to go through that out of choice. The outcome was a still intact marriage and a wife who understood and was on the road to acceptance, I still felt the guilty party but as long as it wasn't talked about that was fine by her, OK I was still living by her rules. Twenty years on I finally want to change those rules, I never thought an online forum would be of any help, but in six months the help and advice given has finally helped me to talk to my wife and discuss my Cding. I may not have achieved full acceptance but I think it's made it clear to her that it's not all by her rules, she has finally realised how much she was hurting me. I think we both realise that we can never completely put the damage right now .

[Michelle (Oz)]

Reading the OP further confirmed to me the major advantages of my genuine DADT arrangement - freedom from boundaries other than self imposed and avoiding the emotional rollercoaster often suffered with SOs who are more involved in the CDing. Sure there are disadvantages but overall DADT works well.

[Teresa]

Michelle is it DADT with your partner totally in the dark, or as long as I don't know he can get on with it ?
I have the problem that I want to share it with her, she knows that ! but I don't think she knows how happy it would make me ! OK It's still her rules!

[MsVal]

Our mutual agreements work well.

I have little experience with this subject in the context of crossdressing, and the little experience I have has been generally positive. However, I will gladly share with the forum those things that seem to work well for my wife and me.

There are certain non-negotiable things in our marriage. They are not confining and easy to live within. These are things like fidelity and abuse. All the rest fall under a broader agreement, like our discretionary spending limits, or are individually negotiable, like the choice of a vacation destination.

When negotiating our mutual agreements we bring to the table our needs and our wants.

In the context of crossdressing, I have an emotional need for expression and my wife has an emotional need for security. These establish the limits of the agreement. We respect one another's needs, and actively strive to satisfy them.

Wants are the meat of the negotiation. These are the things that may be bartered for a mutually satisfactory agreement. I may want to own a number of outfits and hang them in our closet. My wife may want to keep them hidden from the kids. The negotiated agreement is that I may own many outfits, as long as they are kept in my locked workshop.

There is another, equally important part of our agreements. They are subject to review and revision.

Until we are quite comfortable with an agreement, we review it frequently, looking for parts that must be modified. These are often agreements that fit the "Let's see if this works well for us." sort. Being new to crossdressing, most of our CD agreements are still fluid.


Best wishes
MsVal

[Sara Jessica]

Reading the OP further confirmed to me the major advantages of my genuine DADT arrangement - freedom from boundaries other than self imposed and avoiding the emotional rollercoaster often suffered with SOs who are more involved in the CDing. Sure there are disadvantages but overall DADT works well.

I think DADT as a concept invokes a negative connotation but I agree with Michelle, it can work very well and is the epitome of mutual boundaries in action.

One has to acknowledge that a SO takes a leap of faith to become fully accepting and participating. Indeed, it is a rare woman who can get their head around their TG (as in trans-whatever) significant other. As an alternative, DADT becomes all about compromise and honesty as life moves forward.

But as with any set of boundaries where you have a desire to "do" or "be" pitted against a preference that there be no "doing" or "being", those who are on the "do" side of things tend to push the envelope, try for that mile out of the proverbial inch. I am guilty as charged but as a whole, the boundaries set in my DADT situation remain mostly intact.

Finally, on a couple Isha points, I commend you for the arrangement you have in your marriage to have time for friends. This is exactly what I have had from day one. As such, my wife has a group of friends who are a marvel to behold, 7+ women who have been together through thick and thin for the better part of 30 years (really, we're not that old!!!). As for myself, I have two groups of friends like you Isha, technically on both sides of the gender fence with no intersection but both groups are cherished just the same.

And as for your wife's desire not to go out with you so as not to see you hurt emotionally (perhaps likely) or physically (not so likely but still possible), that is a reasonable boundary on her part.

[bridget thronton]

I am not sure partners should set boundaries for each other - more like sharing what they are comfortable with and then each partner decides to honor or not out of consideration (I think it is owning your own feelings)

[Ms. Di GG]

IMHO boundaries when it comes to relationships, although necessary (you need these in everyday life regardless of whether you are CD or not) must be mutually agreed upon for them to work or have any value. Isha

I think that this is one of the most important things to remember, I am very new to this whole thing and my H and I are still in the talking stages of figuring out how his desire to CD will fit into our long time marriage. I agree whole heartedly that any boundaries that we set need to be mutually agreed upon.

As an aside to this, the relationship that you share with your wife is an inspiration to me. I don't know where his CD'ing will fit into our life because I am still struggling with how I feel about it. I love him and that is the most important thing. Thank you for sharing with all of us. Every success story gives us hope.

Ms. Di

[NicoleScott]

The disclaimer was longer than a good post ought to be. A good post is like a good skirt: short enough to be interesting, but long enough to cover the subject.

anyway...


... it is no good to accept boundaries which you know you cannot keep...

True. Also, don't give someone a choice you don't them to take ("quit crossdressing or I'll leave you"). Remember what Brad Paisley sang: "I'm gonna miss her".
A one-way street boundary is an ultimatum, except that sometimes the "or else" is not stated but assumed to be understood.
A two-way street boundary is not imposed - it is agreed.
Finally, DADT works for those that make it work.

[Sandra]

I think it should be a two way thing if it is going to work. Boundaries worked for me and Nigella early on, but we agreed on them together and then re-visited them often. Any relationship is a two way street and of both people are pulling in different directions then it ain't going to work.

[Ineke Vashon]

I live alone therefore boundaries are not an issue at present. However, I do wish to compliment you, Isha, for your thought provoking post which can assist in improving relationships and the negotiations that come with a relationship.

Ineke

[MatildaJ.]

I am not sure partners should set boundaries for each other - more like sharing what they are comfortable with and then each partner decides to honor or not out of consideration (I think it is owning your own feelings)

This is exactly how I feel about it. Thanks, Bridget!

[Roxie]

Isha you hit the nail on the head!
Fr om personal experience the one sided boundary happened in my last relationship,she knew that I was a CDer going in however when It came right down to it all one sided.Stuff like couldn't wear pantyhose with toes ,certain color panties (snooze) no way could I have a dress etc. SO what does that do ? puts a big fat wedge between to people,this is what gets the ball rolling down the hill. I wasn't asking for the world, not to come out, just to wear what felt good . IT's also my belief from reading on this site and from my own experience that the CDer is treated like it's the worse thing in the world .REALLY I could think of dozens of things worse than a man in a dress.I'm not saying that it can always be full out ,It can't be with my job and thats O.K.. but it has to be fair on both side
Now with my former GF we are still friends ,but she needs to understand how I dress in my house if she can't SEE YOU LATER don't let the door hit you in the ass.Life is to short to have someone dictate how you should live!!!!
ROXIE

[Stephanie47]

Marriage is full of "boundaries" or whatever term you want to assign to the act of negotiating and compromise. Does the husband want to buy a F-350 truck and the wife thinks an Toyota Corolla is adequate enough? Does the husband want to buy a house with a 20 x 20 foot man cave, three car garage and a detached shop, and, the wife thinks 3 bedrooms with 2 bathes is adequate? I know many marriages where the man rules the roost, and, the wife just goes along for the ride. Why? Spiritual upbringing? Observer of a poor marriage bordering on spousal abuse?

So, how do I establish boundaries? Do I just show up a breakfast one day full attired in a dress, hosiery, heels, wig and makeup and all the proper undergarments and say to my wife "We're going to the mall. There's a great sale on summer dresses, and, I need a new one for that wedding reception we're going to attend tomorrow?" I've seen that attitude displayed here on occasion. The docile wife may say, "Oh, grab your purse and let's go!" Or? "Pack not only your purse, but, get your @ass out of the house."

There are legitimate concerns raised by the wife. If we buy the F-350 there will be no money for diapers for the babies or we cannot go on a trip for seven years. If we buy that house, we will be paying on a mortgage for thirty years and have no retirement savings to do any fun things later in life.

Or, we can go to the wedding reception of your bosses' daughter in that new dress and end up fired. Our friends may fall by the wayside. Your family may disown you. But. hey, let's do it!

Sure, it may be a one way street. There are plenty of stories of drunk drivers going down the wrong way on a one way street wrecking havoc for others.

I guess, work it out. It may not be even. You may be getting the short end of the stick. You may even get to hold the entire stick all by yourself.

[Cheryl T]

It's funny, but when my wife and I discussed boundaries one of hers was that I would not go out without her!
Her feeling was the opposite of your wife. Mine wanted to be there, in her words, "even if it's just to call 911 for you".
I told her that was funny and when she asked why I said, "you don't have a cell phone and mine will be in my purse".

She still insists on going with me, not for that reason anymore, but just because we love spending all of our time together.

[Ginger Jameson]

Call me wishy-washy, but I'll have to say "both."

Setting boundaries is very much a one-way street. We can talk all you want to, but if I'm not comfortable with you buggering sheep at the dinner table you're not going to convince me it's ok.

The two-way street comes in how each person in the relationship deals with the boundary. First, the person who didn't set the boundary has to decide if it's something they can live with. Does a lack of sheep sex wreck your digestion after a meal? You'll have to decide if it's worth risking our relationship to avoid taking antacids. If you do, my side of the street is me deciding whether I love you enough to turn the other cheek and go through whatever personal process I need to get over my hatred of woolen beastiality.

Granted, the example is silly. My sentiment is serious. I do not believe that a relationship can last when either person is disrespectful of the other's boundaries.

That doesn't mean compromise is impossible. I like barbecue potato chips and you don't like kissing barbecue breath. We can compromise and say I just won't eat them and kiss you after. But maybe my boundary is "I'm going to eat chips."

Which things are boundaries and which are areas for compromise? Figuring that out can be the difference between a wonderful relationship and a so-so (or worse) one.

[Katey888]

I'm not responding to this in the context of being 'out' with my wife, but the concept of boundaries and compromise apply to all sorts of things across a relationship, and to my mind are largely determined by the individuals and their respective personalities and natures within the relationship because we are not all the same and neither are our intimate relationships with SOs.

I envy those of you who have that apparently more balanced relationship with your SO. I'm not talking about accepting any CD/TG nature, I just mean in general. Let me disabuse you of the notion that all relationships are like that because not everyone is a saintly, balanced, unbiased individual. Bluntly, in a relationship where one is not head-over-heels in love with the other, compromises can sometimes be built on a shaky foundation that later crumbles... Sometimes harmonious compromise is unachievable and the negotiation reverts to the power of veto - I've seen this in other relationships as well as practiced it in my own (so beat me up, please...;)). Minor example - I watch few sports - much less than my eldest son and a lot less than most friends and guys I ever worked with - but I totally enjoy watching motor racing... I have had to bluntly rebel in order to watch perhaps ten or a dozen 2 hour races in a year.. I don't think that's unreasonable, but my wife does... I suppose that's a boundary, but I'd also consider it a unilateral action on my part - something I'm not prepared to compromise on.

Isha - you are more than a reasonable individual and I get the impression your wife is too... For those others of you who are in that situation I can only continue to envy you... :)

Stephanie has summed it up right for me:

Sure, it may be a one way street. There are plenty of stories of drunk drivers going down the wrong way on a one way street wrecking havoc for others.

I think that describes a bad potential from both sides of the argument...

There are probably some heads of state that believe Mr Putin can be reasoned with... and they won't have met my wife in a bad mood either...

Enjoy and celebrate your harmony all who can... :cheer:

Katey x

[Suzanne F]

Isha
Wonderful topic. I have been out to my wife for the last 16 months. She helped me dress the first time I was really fully en femme. As many of you know I have been on a journey of discovery. My wife and I have really tried to maintain our loving relationship through a tough transition. My wife goes out with me some but I also have many friends that I meet without her. I have met many women from this forum.

I agree that the boundaries need to be both ways. However, I think in our case it has evolved from one way boundaries that my wife needed. She has slowly been able to relax the boundaries over time. I think at first I was so ecstatic to get any freedom to dress that I quickly agreed to anything. In my case occasional dressing up is not sufficient. I am TS and it has become more and more apparent. I am lucky and my wife has become more comfortable with my needs.

I now make sure that I am up front about what I want in the future. For example I wanted to come out to my children but my wife wasn't ready. So we waited until she decided it was time. That compromise worked and we are very happy with the outcome. In the beginning i might have just said ok we won't tell the kids, knowing that I wanted a different outcome.

My wife and I know that we may find a line that she can't cross and I must. Being able to compromise and wait has helped us both. She is more comfortable than ever with me as Suzanne. She is able to go out with me or let me have my girl friends. I am very lucky! Next Friday my wife , my daughter, our close girlfriend and I will be marching in the San Francisco Trans March for Pride week!
Suzanne

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Isha, My wife is DA-DT and just don't want to see me dressed,
She knows that I dress early in the Morning and the Evening
and as long as I don't push it on her everything is great.
I know Our agreed boundaries and stay within them
and life has been great together for over 50yrs. now.

[susmitha]

I think boundaries should be decided by consensus; not unilaterally.

[Gillian Gigs]

I like this line of thought, "I think boundaries should be decided by consensus; not unilaterally". I am a huge NFL football fan, and my wife and I have a compromise. I get to watch every Sunday afternoon from Sept to and including Super bowl Sunday without any complaining. If I want to watch a game during the week, it is by mutual agreement. I don't watch any other sports, just football, as a Canadian I sacriface hockey for my passion which is football. My CDing habits are also by mutual agreement also, and I will note that limits have moved in my favor greatly over the years. Why, I attempt to give to her things in an act of love and kindness which then gets reciprocated towards me. Going back to football, if there is a Monday night game I really want to watch, I sacriface on Sunday and do something with, or for her. Give and take, it works for me.
I see true love as being willing to lay down my wants for the sake of the other person. If both parties operate in this fashion, then a win-win scenario is not only possible, but it will enhance a relationship also. My life is not just about me, it is about everyone around me and how I influence them also.
To my American cousins, we have a mutual boundary, by agreement, the longest in the world, we respect it, and each other. Shouldn't marriages be the same.

[Teresa]

Katey on a slightly lighter note, you must have more than one TV ?
We've got them all over the house because I take them in and repair them , digital TVs are so easy to fix ! You could get a USB TV tuner for your computer, I haven't replaced my analogue one yet but it's great when you can work on your computer and have TV on the screen as well.

[Michelle (Oz)]

Michelle is it DADT with your partner totally in the dark, or as long as I don't know he can get on with it ?
I have the problem that I want to share it with her, she knows that ! but I don't think she knows how happy it would make me ! OK It's still her rules!
My wife knows that I dress, buy some clothes, where I keep them (4th bedroom), wash my clothes, and more. It is too hard to hide traces of my femme life when I'm out dressed 4 or so days a week. But she puts these things out of her consciousness. Her way of coping. I admire her for her ability to suppress curiousity.

Teresa, I so understand how you feel about wanting to share your femme life with your wife. My wife is my best friend yet I can't share my wonderful experiences with her. I have suggested a greater involvement only to be met with rejection. In a DADT sense I guess I crossed the boundary that works for her. So, yes, I accept that we have a boundary but it is a very easy boundary to live with.

Initially, I thought by rejecting my CDing that my wife didn't love me totally. Now I see her love as absolute.

[EllenJo]

Isha, we can always count on you to come up with interesting questions. I had to take this one to the wife and it led to a good discussion. As many of you know we were an underdressing ok couple with anything else DADT. This was mutually decided and worked for us for many years. It was a mutual decison. At the time I really did not want more. I love my wife and I was not ready to be dressed fully in front of her. I traveled extensively for my job and had plenty of opportunity to dress. When I was home we were all over each other as man and wife.

However life changes, at least it did in our case. Her health deteriorated and I changed jobs to be home and take care of her. I never asked for a change in boundries, it was her choice to tell me that she was ok with my dressing at home when ever I wanted to. It came as a surprise to me. She took into account that my time as Ellen Jo had changed and that my opportunities no longer existed. Also we are older and as life becomes short and precious priorities change and evolve. She became more accepting about the same time that I was feeling more feminine. (read threads regarding late bloomers) We still have boundries but they are mutual and seem to coincide with what we both are comfortable with. I do not pass on my best day and have no desire at this time to leave the house dressed. She says that she doesn't want me to go out and get hurt. I used the phrase "at this time" because we both acknowledge that these feelings can and probably will evolve and that any thing is open to further discussion. All marriages are based on mutual boundries agreed upon by two people. Open communication and trust are the keys to making a good marriage work. I trust that she will not out me to family and friends. She understands that I have given her that power over me because I trust her. That to me is what makes our marriage work in the first place. All these things apply to marriages in general not just in relationships that involve CDing.

Well there I went rambling again. My point is that in our relationship my CDing is part of who we are as a couple now even though it was not always that way. If society was accepting of us in the first place then none of this would be necessary. We would have nothing to hide in the first place so boundries would not be part of the picture.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Sometimes I wonder if anyone here actually feels the weight of their crossdressing as it pertains to others. Most wives don't have to think about setting boundaries for their husbands. Certainly not the type of boundary discussed here: "Sure, darling, you can wear a wig on Tuesdays. Every other Friday you can shave your legs."

These are not common marital discussions, so normal marital rules don't exist here. If boundaries work for you, and DADT works for you (works for me, I might add) then keep doing what you're doing. If it's not working then I agree with Isha that you figure it out or it's time to part ways. But quit thinking normal rules apply here as there's nothing 'normal' about any of this. It just is.

And we're all just doing the best we can. x

[Teresa]

Tinkerbell the weight of guilt is nearly too much some times ! As soon as you tell your partner you know they are going to carry some of that load, it's a no win situation ! Your examples of boundaries are exactly the point that Isha is making why do they have to made, you're married to a CDer don't punish him for it, he doesn't do it to punish you, he doesn't want to hurt or harm you.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

Tinkerbell the weight of guilt is nearly too much some times ! As soon as you tell your partner you know they are going to carry some of that load, it's a no win situation ! Your examples of boundaries are exactly the point that Isha is making why do they have to made, you're married to a CDer don't punish him for it, he doesn't do it to punish you, he doesn't want to hurt or harm you.

Teresa, I don't blame any of you for being crossdressers. You didn't choose this but neither did we, and boundaries are often the only way for a GG to survive. Like I said in my initial post, I don't think usual marital rules apply here. I think couples need to do whatever works for them, and if it's not working, accept the divide that crossdressing can cause in a relationship and be prepared to walk away. Suffering together is silly. Better to be sad but peacefully apart.

I wish us all luck. This is definitely not an easy road to travel.

Tx

[Jessica86]

When my wife and I first got together we shared our needs from each other. She asked me what I needed/wished from her before we got seriously in a relationship. She was very shocked when I said "Just be faithful, and do not have sex with another man." She just stared and asked "That's all?" "Yes. That's all. Anything else we can deal with together. Anything else, I am willing to work with." So, that day, she said the same to me, and said that made sense.

Now, after Jessica comes out, we get married, we work on this, and now my list is the same. It seems like each day, my "list of restrictions" gets longer and longer. More and more restrictions come. So now, I can't dress with her anymore, we don't talk about it, and so forth. She was very accepting, and since has now backed into a corner with the attitude of "I changed my mind." I feel that it is important to communicate, and I try. I know that in my relationship, the compromising is a one way street. Well, at least it feels that way. What am I supposed to say?

[Sara Jessica]

Sometimes I wonder if anyone here actually feels the weight of their crossdressing as it pertains to others. Most wives don't have to think about setting boundaries for their husbands. Certainly not the type of boundary discussed here: "Sure, darling, you can wear a wig on Tuesdays. Every other Friday you can shave your legs."

These are not common marital discussions, so normal marital rules don't exist here. If boundaries work for you, and DADT works for you (works for me, I might add) then keep doing what you're doing. If it's not working then I agree with Isha that you figure it out or it's time to part ways. But quit thinking normal rules apply here as there's nothing 'normal' about any of this. It just is.

And we're all just doing the best we can. x

Tinkerbell, I'm not about to minimize the unique impact that TG can bring into a relationship. But boundaries can be applied in just about any situation. For example:

From her to him...


I don't mind if you go out with the guys every so often but EVERY Friday night???
Do you really have to go fishing every weekend? The kids are missing you, and so am I.
You are spending a lot of money building that coin collection. Maybe we should set aside an allowance for each of us to dedicate to our respective hobbies.


From him to her...


I don't mind if you go out with the girls every so often but EVERY Saturday night???
Do you really have to go rock climbing every weekend? The kids are missing you, and so am I.
You are spending a lot of money buidling that shoe collection. Maybe we should set aside an allowance for each of us to dedicate to our respective hobbies.


I think boundaries are normal and even healthy when dealing with these types of things. To put what you said in a different word, this is not typical but nothing says we cannot apply normal marital rules to our unique situation. In fact, doing so is probably a positive.