AA, Black cats, Lipstick, True self, Joy of seeing someone else be happy last night

[Michelle789]

I personally don't feel like I fit into my family to begin with. I don't talk to any of my relatives on my mom's or dad's side of the families. Zero of them. I don't fit in with my immediate family. I feel like they are very negative people whom I'd rather keep my distance from.

I just came out to two friends, one who is currently my neighbor, and the other who moved out last month. Both accept me, and we will see how that stands up over time.

Most of my friends from my past, from college, and work, I don't really talk to them any more. Some of these friendships were ended over alcoholism, as well as them being condescending, mean, and controlling of me. Others we are on good terms but we've all moved on with our own lives, often in different states, so I don't really keep in touch with them other than an occasional text - I usually text them for major holidays like New Year, Christmas, Thanksgiving, 4th of July.

So really who do I have left as friends in the cis-heteronormative world? AA. My sponsor, who doesn't go to my home group. And my sole AA group that I feel like I have been a part of for the past 7 years. The group that meets at the same time as my TG support group, so I alternate between AA and TG groups. The group that I feel like is a really special group, as a group. People who I love and have loved me for the past 7 years (some of them are newer to the group). A group that I feel like I am a part of except for my gender.

A group that when I went there last night, I got painful reminders of gender dysphoria. I am so used to going by my female name with my newly found friends in my TG support group and MCC, that I found myself not even saying my male name (when a few new people introduced themselves to me, I just hugged them and said welcome but didn't state my name) because I felt like my male name sounds like such a stranger to me, not to mention that if I slip my female name I have just outed myself and I am not out to them yet - I am planning on coming out soon. I got a reminder last night that we join AA to "find our true selves" - just yet another authentic self reminder. I also yet found myself feeling all sorts of guilt about coming out and will I be accepted as a woman, or even accepted at all as an individual.

When I went to fellowship last night, I had a great time, but I felt like I was living a lie. I felt like I was hiding something from them that I will be telling them soon. One of my friends, a really great guy, told me that a great job couldn't happen to a nicer guy, and I felt like "a nicer girl" but can't correct him yet, and not sure how long it will take, if ever, for him or anyone else, to get it right when I do tell them.

I saw the joy on the face of this guy who had trouble maintaining any significant length of sobriety when he told us that he had got one year last night. He looked happier than he ever had. I remember when he was so shy and we had to ask him how he was doing, and ask him questions just to stimulate a conversation, and last night he was initiating conversations with strangers on his own. He was smiling. I was so overjoyed to see him so happy, and am moved to tears as I am writing this. I told the waiter that it was his birthday, as we call it in AA, and he brought us some pie, on the house, and we all sang happy birthday to him.

Now it's just a matter of time before I come out as being transgender to this group. I seriously fear how they're going to react, and if they will accept me for the woman that I am am and becoming, over a significant length of time.

Will I be able to say in one year from now, that they, especially the ones closest to me, accept me for the woman that I am, or will they decide that I am some freak show and cold shoulder me? Will they say yes we accept you today, and then tomorrow not accept me?

And do I feel guilt about admitting that I am a woman to the group? Yes.

Do I worry that they won't accept me as a woman? Absolutely.

Do I worry that they won't accept me at all? Yes.

Do I worry that I will relapse if they don't accept me? Probably not. Although I was tempted to drink last year late July/early August when I was hitting my gender bottom. That was the only circumstance in which I was tempted to drink since I got a year sober.

This is the one group in the cis/heteronormative world that I feel like I am a part of. I don't identify with cis/heteronormative life. I do identify as an alcoholic, and we have the common bond of alcoholism and recovery, and the fellowship and all it's memories. Including the two fondest of them all, Halloween, 2008, when a woman bought a cat to the meeting and then to the restaurant afterwards. It was the cutest, cuddliest, little black kitten in the world. I really enjoyed that night. The other fondest memory was the infamous lipstick scene on April 30, 2010, which is actually half of Halloween. When a girl in the group decided to apply lipstick on me. Other than one guy saying "ew" and calling me a tranny, everyone seemed to accept me. I even wore it driving home to Long Beach, where I lived at the time. Even the guy who called me a tranny, who also called me gay and girl many times both before and after the lipstick scene, we still talk.

Of course, all the AA and natal birthday celebrations, Korean BBQs (I definitely outed myself here), museum trips, seeing a play about Bill W, the comedy club feel of the Friday night meeting, the love and support of the fellowship.

Yet I am soooooo scared of what might happen. Is the lipstick scene a preview of their acceptance, or is a mere lipstick scene really a completely different world from going full time as a woman?

The truth is, I would be devastated if I lost them. I really hope and pray to god that they accept me.

[PretzelGirl]

Michelle, it is tough to gauge the dynamics of an individual group when you aren't the member. If it helps any, I recently did what you are looking at doing. I belong to a weekly group that is of those who have completed a rehab program and anyone who directly supports them. It goes for two years after completion of rehab, so I should be attending this group for more than another year and a half.

So about 2 months ago, I talked with the therapist and gave him a heads up. Then about two weeks later, I took some time to talk and explained what was going on and I wanted them to know instead of them seeing changes and wondering what was up. They were completely supportive and a couple of ladies were very supportive. As a note, I make every effort to live my life as Sue outside of work until I hit my full time date, but this is immediately after work, so I have no time to change my presentation.

Last Monday, I had a doctor's appointment, so I was able to change before going to the group. When I showed up, I was able to meet a couple outside of the room. Then we walked in together and I was acknowledged pleasantly and everything was as normal. Well, except for the last guy who walked in and sat to my right. He started to talk to someone on his right and when he turned left and saw me, he almost fell over. But it was nothing more than a good laugh.

But the point is, it is just like any other slice of life. There will be people who accept us and those that are put off. You can't help those that are put off other than patience and education, if they will have it. But these are people dealing with their issues too, so I suspect you will find less judgement in general.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Michelle it is just so normal to feel all these feelings.

The thing you have to keep your mind focused on is the reality of this situation. If you are transitioning, its because you have no choice. These worries, fears and anxieties are your normal human response to uncertain times and your vulnerability to people.

Nobody can predict how this will go.

Only one thing is certain... you are a woman and your path is to be yourself in the world.
Your power against all this is that truth. If that truth is not "power enough", then you are going to have real transition problems because those slings and arrows are coming your way..

to be fair, lots of us get very little pushback, some of us lose very little that we can't afford to lose, you just don't know....and just doing it is the only way to find out ...

I do have one question.
how long in advance are you worrying about all this?? when are you coming out to them and why now? how much longer before you are presenting as a woman?

[I Am Paula]

As soon as I knew I was transitioning, I also told myself that the goal is to live as a woman. There was going to be unpleasantries, and it would push boundries and friendships to the limit. I also knew this was absolutely unavoidable. If your goal is the same, then coming out now, or later is not really an issue.
No one can predict if you will lose friends, social, and support groups, or anyone else. From my own experiences, and those of internet and RL support groups I belong to, the concensus seems to be, you will lose far less than expected. Myself, and most of my friends met with overwhelming acceptance.
Mentally preparing yourself for a less than positive reaction may help, but honestly, you can never tell where the reactions, good, or bad, will come from.
I was in AA many years ago (sober twenty years), and I found that groups varied widely, and two groups, even in close proximity, could have completely different dynamics. You may need to find a new group, but I pray yours will be friendly, and accepting.

[Michelle789]

I do have one question.
how long in advance are you worrying about all this?? when are you coming out to them and why now? how much longer before you are presenting as a woman?

Kaitlyn,

To answer your questions,

I am a worrywort by nature, so I worry about every possible worst case scenario. I am trying to take contrary action by living in the moment, which is hard, but I ultimately feel more fulfilled when I do live in the moment.

I am currently in the process of coming out to people in AA. I recently came out to a 62 year old Tunisian male who told me that he was proud of me and happy to hear that I was able to accept myself. He is very aware of transgender people, and he has heard lots of coming out stories on the news. He also told me that he knew two TS people in the past. Best of all, he said that the gender binary is bullshit.

I am presenting as a woman full time outside of AA. Since I am not working right now I present as a woman every chance I get. I plan to come out to several more close friends in AA first, including my sponsor, and once I do that I will come out in front of the group. After I do that I plan to start presenting at all AA meetings. I hope to be out and presenting at AA meetings sometime this summer, but I can't put an exact date on it yet.

So far, the one guy in AA, as well as a female neighbor, and a female former neighbor, have all been supportive. I will keep you posted as I come out to more people.

[gonegirl]

I have a question:

When did RLE become full time except for such and such a portion of one's life?

I've not heard of this scenario before.

Also- why is the gender binary bullshit? What's bullshit about being a woman or a man?

[PaulaQ]

@S1m0ne - the gender binary is bullshit because of the existence of genderqueer and others who don't conform or identify as either men or women. For that matter, intersex people call into question the notion that biologically we're either male or female.

[gonegirl]

OK, thanks for the explanation Paula. So, does the gender binary not exist because by definition all humans (including male and female) fall somewhere on the so-called Gender Spectrum?

Regarding intersex people, why would a person's intersex biology call into question the male or female biology of the other 99.9% of people?

[PaulaQ]

BTW my opinion isn't that the gender binary is bullshit, more that it's an oversimplification that works a very high percentage of the time, but not all the time. I wouldn't have said the same thing as Michelle's friend, not exactly.

The gender binary is an oversimplification of the human condition. A number of organs in our body, including our brains develop as either male or female depending on a variety of factors, including the hormones they receive in utero from the mother. These organs don't all develop exactly in lock step, so every once in a while, something goes wrong. (Evidence is increasingly suggesting that this is true for transsexuals as well, and so in effect we have an intersex condition of the brain.) When you think about it, human development in the womb is complex enough that it's kind of a miracle we are born at all!

How much of this stuff applies to the gender spectrum, or for that matter human sexuality is not clear.

I think our society's overly rigid views about gender, sexuality, and gender roles IS bullshit. Ostracizing people who aren't hurting anyone else for simply being themselves is just cruel.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The gender binary is the central organizing factor for all human communications. We have evolved this way.
It makes life better for most people by simplifying their ability to communicate and share experience.
the fact that this sucks for gender variant ,people is besides that point. It is what it is. We are not going to change it but we can live our own fulfilled lives without it.

[PaulaQ]

@Kaitlyn - I agree that the gender binary is an organizing factor for humans. In fact, I think that biologically, we probably need some behavioral differences between men and women. Because humans are complex, the differences in behavior are largely social constructs, and fairly arbitrary, changing over time. But I believe the imperative for them likely exists biologically.

I'm saying I think society could go a little easier on those of us who are gender variant, and stop trying to insult, shun, injure, or kill us. I think those who exist outside the gender binary (GQ, etc.) are going to have a tough go of it though, no matter what.

[becky77]

I have a question:

When did RLE become full time except for such and such a portion of one's life?

I've not heard of this scenario before.


RLE stand for Real life experience so that can be anytime surely? However RLE is usually used for a precursor for surgery and what they really mean is fulltime, name changed and working as a female. Fulltime is fulltime, everything and everywhere. i've used the term myself 'Fulltime outside of work' yes it's an oxymoron but it's a simple way of saying your living as a woman whilst planning the change at work, I won't say it anymore though. Part time would be a true definition, but I think people avoid that as part time is often misconstrued also. Ultimately you're right and we shouldn't confuse the issue, as it lessens the achievement of fulltime.

[Suzanne F]

Michelle
I am going through the same thing right now. See my post about coming out to alpha males Tuesday night. I didn't say it but these guys are in Aa with me. I have come out to maybe 10 people in Aa or more. I can't wait to walk into my home group as the real me. I am waiting for my wife to be on board. I too feel like an impostor. I want so badly to say my name is Suzanne.

I do attend 12 step meetings in SF where they only know me as Suzanne. This has helped me bear not being me at my home group out in the suburbs. Good luck when you decide to come out ! Remember the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. They simply cannot kick us out!
Hugs
Suzanne

[Michelle789]

When did RLE become full time except for such and such a portion of one's life?


Since when were you required to go from presenting full time as male to full time as female? I thought we could slowly work our way up to full time, and that all of it counts as RLE? Yes for surgery they want a year or two of continuous RLE, but I thought that any experience presenting is something we learn from?

[stefan37]

Yes it is all RLE and any experience is better than none. But part time is different from full time. There is a huge difference living with your male legal name and living full time with your new name. You can't pick and choose which scenario would be best. You either are or you are not. Living as a male or part time on hormones is so much easier than living full time as a female. There is no safety zone. You are out and public. Transition by its very nature is a very public process especially in the beginning as you come out to your family, work and friends.

When they talk about RLE living full time or for surgeries they are taking about living as your target gender 24/7. Legal name change. Identity matching your new name and gender.

[Michelle789]

This thread was never intended to be about the definition of RLE or full time. This thread is about coming out to one specific group of people in real life, that is my AA home group. Please let's keep all future discussions here about coming out to friends, family, or other groups of people you may be active in real life.

[becky77]

Yes it is all RLE and any experience is better than none. But part time is different from full time. There is a huge difference living with your male legal name and living full time with your new name. You can't pick and choose which scenario would be best. You either are or you are not. Living as a male or part time on hormones is so much easier than living full time as a female. There is no safety zone. You are out and public.

Your statement above is exactly why part time is not used as a term. As Michelle said there has to be a crossover, a process of integration (Transition).
To S1m0ne i'm part time, as I haven't dealt with work yet (which I can't just yet but I have plans, i'm not rushing into it thats my income) however if I am part time by your definition, I can 'dip in and out' when it suits me. That simply isn't the case, I do everything as a woman even the DIY, Dentist etc I'm living my life as a woman, with my family and friends. The only time I have to change this is for work. So do I say i'm part time when clearly people in the community view part time as "picking and choosing" and therfore belittle you.

Maybe there are those that are a man one day then BAM fulltime woman the next. If it works for you great, but personally I think that approach is fraught with problems. Sorry to derail your thread Michelle, perhaps there is another discussion to be had elsewhere, regarding just what experience is benificial before going fulltime?

[stefan37]

Michelle, you brought up full time except for:......

Transition is a public process and if you are transitioning and living "full time". Then that means you can't pick and choose which groups will know you as male or female. How they perceive you is another matter completely.

You want to live as a female and have those you come in contact with treat you as female, then you need to present as female in all aspects of your life.

What that means is jumping off the cliff and coming out to your AA group. Regardless of outcome. Which we can not predict anyway. If you have not yet, or don't plan to change your legal name soon, then do nothing.

[Rianna Humble]

Well children, since you insist on "You started it" posts to justify why you posted off-topic, playtime (and this thread) is over.