Crossdresser vs Transgender

[Susan Stevens]

I have assumed the one was synonymous with the other, but maybe in my ignorance I am wrong. Two days ago I let one of my very old and dear friends in on my secret. We had lost touch for many years and I have always regretted not keeping better contact with him. We both come from a very similar background as we both grew up in the same church, schools and our families were always pretty close. He is homosexual, and was in the closet for a very long time, so I'm sure he understands better than most. One thing he has said puzzles me though. It seems he does not include a closet crossdresser into the umbrella of transgender. Not sure why, but will be asking the question to him when I find the opportunity. My questions to the group are: At what point do you consider an individual a transgender person? Do you consider your self transgender now? I am interested in all points of view on this.

[Michelle789]

Crossdressers are considered to be transgender under the transgender umbrella. Even if a CDer identifies as male, they are presenting as female so the gender expression is different from the gender assigned at birth, and therefore transgender. A transsexual women who is presenting as male is still transgender because the gender identity is different from the gender assigned at birth.

There is a difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual. A CDer dresses as a woman and has less progressed gender dysphoria, while a TS has severe enough GD to transition. Some CDers may not have GD but just be men who like to wear women's clothes, although we can never know for sure who is male identified wearing women's clothes, female identified but won't transition, and female identified and will transition, and you may fall anywhere on the gender spectrum. CDers and TSes can go in both directions from MTF and FTM.

[Susan Stevens]

I have always thought the same as you just said, I just thought it was interesting my friend made the distinction. Wondered if I was wrong about how I saw it.

[natcrys]

One way is not to worry about labels at all.. :)

Of course, when you're discussing stuff that's not always possible. I use the word "transgender" as an umbrella term for all things that have to do with unconventional expressions of gender, which in itself is already quite debatable. I consider myself a crossdresser, and thus by extension to be transgender.

For some, transgender means that one is ( in whatever way) on a path towards transition and further.. but I think that's a narrow definition, because this is covered with being TS.

Ah well.. the debate will probably never end. :p

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Susan, If you do find out for sure please let the rest of us know.

[mechamoose]

I understood being transgender as being born in the wrong body. Crossdresser as being more comfortable role & presentation-wise in the opposing gender's accouterments.

I'm a guy who likes presenting my female traits strongly enough where I'm not afraid to paint my nails, wear skirts, and be pretty.. but I'm NOT transgender. TG folks feel like aliens in their own body.

<3

- MM

[susmitha]

I think natcrys from Netherlands is correct, because it covers a wide spectrum of the feeling of gender. Sex is different. It is not a feeling. For example, I am male by sex, as I am physically male. But my gender is female as my internal feelings are feminine and I like ONLY the female role in bed. So I am TG and CD. Maybe, the term CD is covered under TS. But I am not TS or I am just a border case, with no plans for SRS.

[Taylor186]

It has been my experience that the average gay or lesbian has no better understanding of the transgender umbrella (and its nuances) than the average straight person. By which I mean he or she has not much understanding and not much empathy either. It is as foreign as being gay is to a straight person.

I personally subscribe to the broad umbrella definition, but if you hang around here long enough, and read prior threads on the topic, you will find that we (crossdressers) can't even agree on it.

[Desirae]

Put me down for the broad umbrella definition of transgender, also. I think all the other labels are subsets. Isn't the LGBT acronym set up that way, also? It isn't LGBCD, or LGBTS, is it? Maybe we need more labels. Like pseudo-CD, or semi-TS.

[NavyM2F_WAM]

I'm a crossdresser (for only the last few months, but have thought about it for years). I want to transition to become a woman (have thought about that one for even longer). I don't consider myself to have any "gender dysphoria" (or whatever). I just love wearing women's clothes and want to become a woman.

I wonder what exactly this means that I am. Thoughts?

[Mishell]

I go for the umbrella as well. I see it broken down however, not as a label, but rather levels or stages. all of which are under the umbrella of Transgendered. I know others will disagree, but its perfectly logical.

Crossdresser: Wearing 1 or more articles of clothing of the opposite sex. (The reason doesn't matter) . No make up or wigs.
Transvestite: Going the extra step in order to more closely resemble the opposite sex. For men: (Make up, wig, painted nails). But not living as the opposite sex full time, and no desire to live as the opposite sex full time.
Non op Transexual: Living as the opposite sex without wanting gender reassignment surgery. (For men, this could include breast implants/enhancement and/or hormones).
Pre-op Transexual: Living as the opposite sex with plans for gender reassignment surgery.
Post-op Transexual: Living as the opposite sex after having GRS.

OH, and obviously there could be transitional stages between these stages as well. Its not written in stone. Just a basic guideline.

I'd like to mention also that, in MY experience, I've found that there is a HUGE gap between the gay community and the transgendered. I've found that gays don't really accept TGs, whether the TG is straight or gay themselves. I've seen mostly animosity from gays towards TGs. This surprises me as one would think that they would have more tolerance toward the TG community. Oh well.

[Eryn]

Yes, transgender is the broader umbrella term, but I tend to use it to describe myself since it is the one with public recognition, the "T" in LGBT.

[Beverley Sims]

To me, cross-dresser and transgendered are quite different.

one is psychological and the other is physiological as well.

[amander-]

Hi there susan

I say yes to trangendr i am trangendr from(a) to (b) and when i get to (b) i will be a women. When i came in to the world i had the mined of a women but body of a man.
So when i get the srs dun i will be so happy.

[Katey888]

Darn! :Angry3:

And i thought this was going to be a thread with video like 'Godzilla vs. MechaGodzilla'...:eek: 'Crossdresser vs Transgender' - the new Tarantino release features Uma Thurman and Dustin Hoffman... Oh well...

I find Dymo labels are good because they don't fade - frankly, everyone here seems to have their own need or requirement for a particular category to either prove or disprove that they're part or not part of some group that is recognised or not recognised and.... now.... where tf was I???

My personal view is that I am a crossdresser and I am - to a small degree - TG... Why, otherwise, would I feel the need to present as a female and why would that action seem to be so right and harmonious? (I make a point here that there is no sexual element to my CDing anymore)

How significant the degree of TG is determines what lengths we must go to, to satisfy that need for harmony... Mine has not been so distinct that I have actually made it out in public, although I might yet try that.... :) And I can seemingly satisfy my needs with a small amount of dressing each day, and a transformation once every few weeks...

I don't think CDers are all TG - I think there are some for whom the activity remains a fetish or an activity, sometimes sexual but not always, and there are always grey areas across all of this gender stuff... We are all one big happy family really... :lol:

I agree with others here who are surprised that you'd think because someone was homosexual and closeted they'd understand much beyond just the secretive nature of what we are and do - I think we probably come across as just weird to most folk, hetero or LGB, but that goes with the turf...

Another weekend head scratching and the only image I'm left with is a group of Japanese businessmen running down a city street in terror, screaming... "Crossdresser!! Crossdresser!!!" :)

Katey x

[Vickie_CDTV]

Technically, TG is supposed to including dressers, but like many things it depends on the context. When TG is used by the mainstream culture, they usually mean transsexuals though (those who are more out and visible.) Heck, most of mainstream society does not even know hetero TVs even exist!

[Charla McBee]

I fought against myself claiming the TG label for years, simply refusing to put any deep thinking into my CDing even though I probably always knew better. In recent months I have been systematically breaking down my walls, doing a lot of research and devoting a lot of time to honest self reflection. I finally came across bigender, the sense of fluctuating gender identity, which puts me firmly in the TG camp. I could see myself going through some sort of transition to try and balance out the dysphoria but I feel like surrendering to the binary and picking a side wouldn't do me any good.

Naturally I support the use of Transgender as a broad umbrella term for anyone expressing cross-gender behavior or identity that cares to adopt it. TS people are TG but not all TGs are TS. It's that last part that seems to cause a bit of friction. There really is a wide spectrum here ranging from the casual CD who is secure in their assigned gender and reports no dysphoria to the full TS who overwhelmingly feels like they have always been in the wrong body. I like this inclusive view as it is meant to bring us all together in solidarity. Where ever you fall on the spectrum, we all have some things in common and struggle daily with society's lack of understanding. Instead of arguing over who is exactly what, we should allow people to express their identities as they see fit and welcome them all to our wider community.

[Marcelle]

Hi Susan,

As many will attest here, I am not a label gal but I also understand that labels help to explain things to others and find our place in our own minds. I agree with many here that CD is under the TG moniker and when I explain my chosen lifestyle to others I will start with "Do you know what transgendered means?" If their face gets that blank screensaver mode look :confused: then I will say "Do you know what a cross dresser is?" . It is normally at that point where clarity tends to occur (Yes a guy who likes to dress like a girl) and then I will bring them into the explanation of TG/CD vice TG/TS as it gives them a baseline to start from.

Hugs

Isha

[Ressie]

It's interesting that the words crossdresser, transvestite and transexual are nouns, while transgender is an adjective. The noun is transgenderism. If anyone finds this wrong please set me straight with a link to a dictionary.

Dictionary (adjective) = Identify with a gender other than the biological one..

Are there closet CDs that don't really identify as women? If one dresses part time are they transgender part time? I know many of us on this board identify with being totally male even when en femme. When en femme for hours there may come a point that one forgets they are presenting as a woman, hence their identity can be male even when dressed.

To me it's someone that identifies with the opposite sex all the time. If we're confused about the word's meaning, the general public doesn't have a clue. The way the word is used by the media would leave one thinking that transgender = gay. The link below has an accurate description IMO.

http://transequality.org/Resources/TransTerminology_2014.pdf

[Deedee Skyblue]

they are presenting as female so the gender expression is different from the gender assigned at birth, and therefore transgender.

So when a straight male dresses as a woman at Halloween, and honestly tries to fool people, but has no desire to dress at any other time, that makes him transgender? Or, just transgender as long as he has the clothes/wig/makeup on?

Deedee

[devida]

One of the reasons, Ressie, that I like the word transgender as descriptive of the whole gender variant spectrum is because it clearly means across or cross gendered. Trans means across. The word doesn't describe how far across. Wearing a single item of clothing that is defined as belonging to another gender could allow someone to define themselves as being transgender. It certainly doesn't have to. A man could just prefer the way panties feel and be totally identified as a man. But if wearing the panties gives him a bit of an illicit thrill then he is crossing genders and could identify as transgender. Again, he doesn't have to do so. Even if he dresses fully en femme he still doesn't have to, though by then I would certainly think he was.

But who am I and what right do I have to decide on matters of another person's gender identity? None. I really only have the right to label myself.

Transgender is a useful way for me to define myself. I find it liberating and it brings me a great deal of personal comfort. But that is because I did not understand that the discomfort I felt came from attempting to confine myself within the straightjacket of gender binaries until I understood myself to be trans. I don't even agree that the binaries are accurate at describing sex. Most biologists would agree. I don't really think that I am male or female by sex but I don't have the physiological proof. What's between my legs is not as important as what's between my ears. I am pretty sure the brain structures that reference my sex are like those of other transgender mtfs. That is to say certain structures are closer in appearance to a woman's than a man's. If they weren't I do not see not see why I would experience gender dsyphoria and I clearly do. The issue of non-binary sex is even more controversial than transgender.

Sexuality is the only area where fluidity and variability has a degree of social acceptance, and as we all know that's just a degree. Sexuality does have a number of words for use that are analogues of transgender, including bisexual and pansexual.

In the the LGBT spectrums the definitions of Lesbian and Gay are widely known and uncontroversial. There is more controversy over the term Bisexual with frequent assertions that bisexuals are gays, lesbians, or heterosexuals who just can't make up their minds. I think this is foolish and like all attempts at disempowering minorities a result of fear that one's own identity is under attack by the very existence of people who identify differently. When we come to Transgender, as we can see from this discussion, although most LGBT organizations include cross dressing males in their definition of trans, not even all here agree. Like others I would, for social and political reasons, encourage cross dressers to identify as transgender since cross dressing men are clearly a much larger and consequently more politically and socially powerful group that other transgender minorities like transsexuals and the gender fluid like me. But I do not have the right to force any definition that involves self identity on anybody else. Human beings have done this for long enough and all we have to show for it is a history of pain and misery. Human beings may not have the ability as a species to stop doing this. That remains to be seen. But I do.

[Stephanie Julianna]

I used to think there was a difference between transgendered and crossdressers. I don't believe that now. Whether you are heading to full time womanhood or go back and forth I believe that is transgendered. If you called me transgendered years ago I would have denied it. Now I feel it defines me.

[Taylor186]

So when a straight male dresses as a woman at Halloween, and honestly tries to fool people, but has no desire to dress at any other time, that makes him transgender? Or, just transgender as long as he has the clothes/wig/makeup on? Deedee

That male, straight or gay, is not transgender: dressed or not.

[sometimes_miss]

Again we come to the problem of someone feeling the need to define each person as one thing exclusively. Which is often wrong. We can be many things at the same time, to whatever degree, and it's all just fine that way. Get used to it, because very few of us can fit entirely, and only, in one category.

[bentervine]

I always thought transgender and crossdresser were pretty much the same thing. Transexual is obviously different, and transvestite is just the fetish. After reading this thread, I'm still not totally clear on TG vs. CD, lol. They're awfully close to synonyms.

[LisaKarenAZ]

I prefer the description gender non-conforming to describe myself. IMHO, we spend too much time and energy attempting to place labels to describe where each of us are in the spectrum of gender. Personally, I prefer to consider myself a genetic male with an appreciation for clothing designed for women, as well as makeup. If i could actually choose which gender I was genetically, I would prefer to be a woman.
Since I can't easily do so, I've learned to accept me for me, and the flair that goes along with my external display preferences.

[Michelle789]

So when a straight male dresses as a woman at Halloween, and honestly tries to fool people, but has no desire to dress at any other time, that makes him transgender? Or, just transgender as long as he has the clothes/wig/makeup on?

Why would a man want to dress as a woman for Halloween in the first place, and no other time? Aside from losing a bet, or being in some circumstance where you're forced to, why would a man want to dress as a woman, or even wear lipstick or some article of woman's clothing for that matter?

I mean given how socially unacceptable it is for men to wear women's clothing, why would a man want to do such a thing, if they're not transgender to begin with? And let's say that you can be TG but very moderately so, you might fall only 1% female and your need to dress on Halloween only fulfills the desire. No one says to be TG that you have to be 100% or even 50% female, can't anyone who falls out of the socially acceptable range of male/female for a biological male (which essentially anything other than 100% male, 0% female, is not acceptable and therefore TG)?

[Pink Susan]

It is funny how the human race has this need to label people

Anyway my own thoughts are that many Crossdressers on this Forum ,are quite "normal" men in most aspects , they are often married to a Lady or have a girlfriend , enjoy traditional masculine activities , that may be anything from going Fishing or boating to building a Shed , or get a thrill out of buying / using Power Tools.
Any of those activities leave me cold , I can't fight , push weights or even grow a beard , I am mostly turned on by other Trans "girls" , and am happiest , in a pretty frock , frilly underwear and pantyhose , doing the ironing , vacuuming and cooking .
I am Transgender most probably , not Crossdresser

[Tinkerbell-GG]

If male identified crossdressers are transgender, then so is the entire female population for every time we've cut our hair short, worn men's jeans or borrowed our boyfriend's shirt.

Labels are silly. This is why.

[Kate Simmons]

Any labels I use are for the sake of convenience and understanding. Personally, I consider everyone a dynamic unique individual, gender and labels notwithstanding.:)

[juliew]

Too busy enjoying life to worry about a score card. I am comfortable with what I am. That is all I need!

[Secret Drawer]

It also comes down to fear. It is a monumental undertaking to even consider changing ones gender (physically). So if we identify ourselves as crossdressers, we mentally try to minimalize our GID issues... (I am just a crossdresser, I can quit at any time, etc...) Once we accept we have some deeper seeded issues we may identify more as transgendered. The way I see it is that crossdressing is a part time thing, and that even if one cannot walk away completely from it, it can be "put away" for a while. I see transgender(ism) as something full time within our mental state. To ignore it is to create huge amounts of stress and anxiety in our daily lives... perhaps labels are not alway accurate or easy to define, but they do help to give general ideas to interested individuals as to where you stand in life.
I imagine there are three giant steps... CD, TG, and TS. All of them are at one point involving crossdressing, but crossdressing does not necessarily involve TG or TS mental states.

[Paulacder]

Crossdressers and Transgendered are two entirely different groups. C/D ers. are just that, either men who like wearing female clothing or it could be females who like wearing male clothing. Transgendered meaning individuals who were born with both sex organs or individuals who have medically altered there birth sex.........Just my 2 cents

[Aprilrain]

And then there is real life...

Transvestite is the original term for crossdresser, it has nothing to do with having a fetish though that is what it has become synonymous with in the US.

Like it or not, transgender is the mainstream medias new pet word for all things transsexual.

If you say the word crossdresser to Joe or jane Shmoe they will conger up an image of a gay man in a dress.

Transsexual as a term is becoming obsolete.

The subtle nuances of the so called "TG umbrella" are lost on most people.

[Ressie]

Some really good posts here. Secret Drawer - your post is right on. TG isn't how one dresses, but is in the mind. Dressing in clothing of the opposite sex is more of a behavior that comes from those thoughts and feelings. I would say that I have some TG qualities and if someone uses the word do describe me it's OK with me.

[Cheryl T]

So much concern about labels and so little about the person....

Signs, signs, everywhere there's signs
Blocking up the scenery, breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?

Tesla - Signs Lyrics

[suchacutie]

To me the term transgender was clear basedon the roots of the word, meaning, literally, across gender. Thus, any activity that crosses the presentation of gender would be appropriately described by this term. Other terms could then be used to be more specific about any particular activity. Alas, nothing seems ever to be that simple.

[NicoleScott]

Whether CDers are under the TG umbrella depends on which definition you CHOOSE to believe. Some (most) definitions of TG include identifying OR presenting as the gender opposite birth sex, while some definitions REQUIRE identifying as the gender opposite birth sex.

To complicate matters, even the term crossdresser has different meanings for different people. To some, a crossdresser is "one who crossdresses". In that case, a one-time Halloween costume makes a guy a crossdresser for the time he is wearing women's clothes. But I don't think so. To me, a crossdresser is a guy who has the internal drive to wear women's clothes (and the F>M flip-side). I am a crossdresser, but Tootsie and Mrs. Doubtfire were not, as what they wore was a disguise and there was no apparent drive to crossdress.

Being a crossdresser is not about the act of wearing the clothes, it's about the drive too wear the clothes.

I'm sure this will clear it up and there will never again be any discussions on the matter. hahahahaha

[BillieJoEllen]

Definitions change. When I was fifteen the court ordered some psychiatric evaluation for some cross dressing trouble I got into. It was determined at that time that I was a transsexual by three different therapists. The terms cross dresser and transgendered weren't heard of or used widely for over twenty five years after that. One word that was used was transvestite (ugh). Sometime in the mid 1990s I was diagnosed as transsexual again by two different therapists. It was at that time that I heard the word cross dresser for the first time although I had seen some literature using those terms dated prior to that.

[Lorileah]

I'm a crossdresser (for only the last few months, but have thought about it for years). I want to transition to become a woman (have thought about that one for even longer). I don't consider myself to have any "gender dysphoria" (or whatever). I just love wearing women's clothes and want to become a woman.

I wonder what exactly this means that I am. Thoughts?

highly confused? Let's just start with some inconsistencies here. You want to transition to be a woman yet you say you have no dysphoria. If you want to transition to a woman you have dysphoria. You are not happy with the way things are. You just love wearing the clothes and want to become a woman, you will be classified as transsexual. One thing you need to consider, unless you go underground there isn't reputable medical person in the US who will let you transition just because you like clothes. Sometimes I wonder what people think transitioning means...it isn't a game like piercing or getting a tattoo. It isn't something you do for fun.

In RE: the OP. The language used it misused so frequently by people not in the close community, it gets blurred. We as a community need to keep things in place where we can communicate (and even here so many want to make their own rules not realizing that they spread confusion) When you interchange words indiscriminately, you are not communicating what you mean. Being in a science field I have to use words that mean something with my colleagues. Cancer is one. It means one thing to medical people but mean something more broad to the lay person. We get that and we have to explain things in a manner that people can understand. If we need to go beyond that, we educate. In the real world here few want an education so when we do try and teach, we get shut off. Maybe if I explain this in a different manner. You can say someone is Oriental. Some people take that as insulting and explain they are of let's say Japanese, or Korean, or Chinese decent. With time and practice you can learn the differences...but then it can get deeper. There are groups within those (Mandarin, Cantonese.etc). We are similar. Transgender is a big catch all, but we may say we are CD or TS or GQ. Then if you go deeper, you can be a non-op TS or a hormonal TS, or a surgical TS or a post-op TS. How far do we need to go with the general population? Here certain posts will need the specificity. In daily life, it would be a good start just to get people to quit looking at us as different.

But first we have to decide on definitions for ourselves

(PS Cheryl...it was the Five Man Electric Band...Tesla stole it ;))

[KaceyR]

It's a rough thing to define. And that also makes it rough in a way for laws and their legalities when thought if with all the new anti-discrimination laws. The panic over restricting bathroom use to "protect our children from rapists" as so stupidly touted by anti trans equality groups (and I've got a copy of what they sent out to their supporters saying such to spur protests for a recent Sterling Heights city anti-discrimination law - which still passed and was just put in place thankfully) makes it an issue where defining is big matter.
The image of a rapist donning a dress just for the day to be able to call himself transgender and access the room is what's brought to mind.

To me, I've considered myself Transgender and not just crossdresser due to how often I go out, present to the world as opposite sex, as well as how much effort I put into the presentation (full makeup,clothes,mannerisms,and all). As well, it's my own 'thought' of my reasoning for donning the clothes. Sure I love the clothes, femininity, but I'd kind of worked a bit more into it. More recently it's been wanting to 'be' Kacey, 'the' woman, and not just act like Kacey, a woman.
Personally, I think I need to find and discuss this all with a therapist. Just haven't yet.

So I don't know how legally the laws will work out. Some don't count you being transgender, without 'some' form of body surgeries or official statements by doctors. (Parts needed for official identity change too). So it's a bit of a mess out there :)
I might consider myself TG but without 'official' documents or changes happening, I wouldn't be considered such.

[Nadia Pinky]

I think TG feel strong to change to real female in life and facing all folks to change them self but crossdresser dressed part time and satisfy a man and as women with no sense to change gender

[Susan Stevens]

There are a couple of reasons behind my intent in asking the questions. First, I lived in a religious bubble for 34 years, I was taught all of this is evil, and repulsive. This led to a lot of self hatred and serious ignorance on the issues! So I want to better understand who I am. Second, I want to be able to help others understand who we are as a community. We seem to be swept under the rug by many of the other communities. One post I read talked about someone who did not want to use the proper pronoun for a post-op Trans person, which may be simply because of how we are perceived, or ignorance, or even hate. I never fault anyone for ignorance, I am still learning myself and have found I often speak in ignorance. I just hope someone is willing to take the time to help me understand more fully on the issue.

IMHO, I don't think there is anything wrong with labels, so long as we don't limit ourselves because of the labels. For instance, I accept the labels of father and husband willingly. These labels help others understand who I am. What I don't do is allow those labels to force me into a box of how or what I should do within those labels. My wife and I will be switching roles when she finishes her degree. I will be the homemaker and she the bread winner. I am allowing my label to define who I am, but not to limit or control how I choose to live. I welcome the label of a Transgender, though I am not sure I fit into everyone's else's label if what that means. It does help others to understand there is more to me than just what is readily visible. Again, I could be totally wrong and I am willing to learn from all of you and change my opinion should I learn I am wrong.

I learning a lot about this subject and finding good points on all sides! Thanks so much for. All the input so far!

[Lacy PJs]

Two things: first, are we afraid of labels because they say something about us that we don't want to be said? As someone mentioned earlier, labels "help" define a person as to who they are but should not confine them within that label. If a person is handicapped, they are a person with a disability, yet they don't let that label define what they can or cannot do (within the confines of the law). But there's no getting around the fact that they have some kind of impairment, something that makes them different from the "norm."

To me, the crossdresser is the person who enjoys wearing the clothing of the other gender more for the physical pleasure derived from doing so. The transgendered person is someone who "needs" to crossdress and do other things to fulfill a deeper urge to be more a part of the other gender. I play games because... I like to play games. That doesn't make me ultra-competitive to the point where I live a lifestyle that would help me to win at all costs. I don't have an inner desire that tells me that I must win or I am somehow incomplete. That's the way I feel about crossdressing; I like the feel of the clothes yet I don't wear forms, pads, jewelry or other ornamentation that would make me even remotely passable, nor would I consider any kind of reconstructive surgery. I sometimes wear pink lacy panties because I like to wear pink, lacy panties, not because they make me feel more like I'm a woman with them on. So that is "my" take on the difference; your mileage may vary.

Lacy PJs

[Sarah Doepner]

I can tell you with incredible detail about my favorite sports team and it just might make your eyes glaze over, ending the possibility of me explaing anything to you. Or I could say I really like the Utah Jazz basketball team even though they haven't been very good recently. At that you might tell me all about your favorite team or tell me you aren't really interested. The detail isn't needed until the discussion begins and is entered into by both parties.


Yes, transgender is the broader umbrella term, but I tend to use it to describe myself since it is the one with public recognition, the "T" in LGBT.

Probably the best reason to use any lable is for brand recognition. Regardless of how we split hairs in the definitions we use within our community, having something people outside can understand has to be a good thing in that it provides a common foundation to build on.


Technically, TG is supposed to including dressers, but like many things it depends on the context. When TG is used by the mainstream culture, they usually mean transsexuals though (those who are more out and visible.) Heck, most of mainstream society does not even know hetero TVs even exist!

Exactly, so having a definition that is widely understood may provide a way to hook this kind of understanding to a word. Maybe not, but I think it's worth it.


(. . . snip . . .) Naturally I support the use of Transgender as a broad umbrella term for anyone expressing cross-gender behavior or identity that cares to adopt it. TS people are TG but not all TGs are TS. It's that last part that seems to cause a bit of friction. There really is a wide spectrum here ranging from the casual CD who is secure in their assigned gender and reports no dysphoria to the full TS who overwhelmingly feels like they have always been in the wrong body. I like this inclusive view as it is meant to bring us all together in solidarity. Where ever you fall on the spectrum, we all have some things in common and struggle daily with society's lack of understanding. Instead of arguing over who is exactly what, we should allow people to express their identities as they see fit and welcome them all to our wider community.

Charla you are speaking my language. I'd really like it if we could somehow get all the TV and Newsfolks to add this little bit of understanding to their world. Eventually, maybe, it would be possible to have a conversation with someone that didn't start with 15 minutes of defining what we are not. If Crossdresser works, fine, if it takes Transgender, then use it and if the only thing that works is Transvestite, well, I guess that would have to do.

[Frédérique]

At what point do you consider an individual a transgender person? Do you consider your self transgender now?

When they leave this section and head to that other section…

Do I consider myself transgender? NO. :hmph:

[mechamoose]

Ok.. so..

I know that there is a clear difference between a person who cross dresses and transgender people, but I think that there is some crossover, and that blurs the lines.

We enjoy wearing the opposing gender's clothes, to present, in some way, as that other gender.

While that isn't the same as folks who have full gender disphoria, it shares some level of the same feelings.

It isn't about black or white. Most of us here are very grey.

- MM

[Princess Grandpa]

After realizing last year that I am a cross dresser, I started reading up on it. My only experiences with the trans-world was watching M.A.S.H. On TV as a child, and one acquaintance who was TS. I read that TG was an umbrella term that includes all of us that identify or present in a manner not consistent with our physical gender at birth. I have since learned that not everyone agrees with this definition.

How do I see myself? I don't feel like a woman trapped in a mans body. As my father and every other male role model in my life will attest to I'm not a "real man". Something somewhere in between? Yea maybe. I have never felt so happy and complete as I have over the past year. I have heard the term gender-queer thrown around. If I understand correctly, not really a man not really a woman but something somewhere in between?" I'm not sure my understanding it correct but that feels like me.

Hug
Rita

[susannma]

Hi Susan
I know this tread is a bit old.

But its actually a topic I was almost making a new tread about.

I think according to dictionary there is no difference.

But I have big problem with thinking about myself as Transgender, when I think about transgender people I do think about persons who want to be diffrent gender. Who more or less behave and want to be the other gender.

I dont have problem with caling myself Crossdresser, I feel that describes more or less what I am. I am a male, and like being male, but I also like to put on female clothes, wear makeup and style my hair from time to time.

I guess I am actually wrong... but just how I feel about this.

[PegyL]

With some one as beautiful as you, your women to the end. Love you dear

[NicoleScott]

Asking if a person is a crossdresser or transgender is like asking is that an apple or a fruit.

[susannma]

Well, I think maybe we need new and better terms, but in my world a transgender person can crossdress, but that a person who crossdress dont have to be transgender.

I understand that according to dictionary, that I am on thin ice here.

But if crossdressing alone makes a person transgender, how often does one have to crossdress to be concidered transgender, once in a life time? once a year? once a month?....

[Linda E. Woodworth]

Every time I ask this question I get a different answer.

I am a Crossdresser or to use the older term Transvestite. If that makes me Transgendered also, fine. If it doesn't fine. It isn't going to affect the way I do anything anyway.

[Zylia]

Yes, we definitely could use new and better terms. However, I'd say transgender (unlike cross-dresser or transsexual) is one of the least problematic terms because it's so widely applicable. The only problem is that a lot of media use it for transsexual individuals exclusively. It's not technically wrong, but it's like saying fruits when you're talking about apples specifically (thanks for the metaphor Nicolle).

You're a transgender cross-dresser if cross-dressing serves it's own purpose and/or fills some emotional need. In that case, you probably don't do it once a year. If you cross-dress because it's your job (e.g. you're an actor: Dustin Hoffman, Robin Williams, etc.) you're not a cross-dresser. The actual problem with the word cross-dresser is the fact that there's too much of a focus on the clothes when it's also (or more) about full cross-gender expression.

[Coping2014]

OK I've read all your posts and have to say - thank you - because some of you were very helpful in defining what's what and I do think I have more of an understanding of it. That being said - I agree with most of you that lables are dumb and don't generally mean anything anyway. BUT as a wife of someone under this umbrella I NEED MORE! I need to understand where he is on this spectum. I need to see where our life is headed and if we have the same picture in mind. When we got married that is what that was all about. We met, fell in love, both wanted to have a family - knew where we wanted to live and set out together knowing what each of our roles were. WELL? somewhere along the way he realized or finally decided to tell me that he wanted to change his role. YES it freaked me out mainly because I didn't KNOW what his new role was? or if we were even on the same page any longer.

SO for me I NEED the breakdown so he can tell me what role fits him so we can understand one another again. I still don't see it as a spectrum but as a ladder. I know most of you don't care for that but it just seems to me that it is a ride you take and it has a natural progression. I mean you can get off the ladder or go higher or back down. But all in all it is that transformation from Male to Female it just depends on what degree you end up taking it each time.

I guess I need to know how far he wants/needs to go and see how that fits our picture? I know that may seem insensitive but it's actually because I want us BOTH to be happy. I don't want him to be something he isn't but in the same breath I need to know where that is so that I know I can be happy too. Does that make sense to anyone or am I clear as mud.

For the moment I think we are OK and are communitcating well and in general just love one another but he needs to figure out where he lies on this spectrum and understand himself before he can even explain it to me so in essance we both need the lables to make sense of things? But this constant WONDER is killing me, and the time to process everything is so hard. Normally I can put something out of my head and not worry about it but I'm constantly on this forum looking for answers but sadly only time will tell.

Coping2014

[lexivanderpump]

Dear coping2104,
You sound a lot like my wife. She has the same concerns. I tell her the truth. I am a straight male. I love dressing in women's clothes and I really enjoy it. I am attracted only to females, but just happen to love dressing up in womens clothing.

Love,
Lexi

[wilt575]

This sounds like a six of one or half a dozen of the other thing. I have been crossdressing for years, love my fem side wen dressed. Two years ago I got breast implants to enhance the look and feeling of being female. Lately I've been wondering what it would be like to experience sex as a "woman" with a male if I had girl parts down there, I,m not gay or attracted to men. Just wonder what women feel guess I lean to transgender.

[Tinkerbell-GG]

But I have big problem with thinking about myself as Transgender, when I think about transgender people I do think about persons who want to be diffrent gender. Who more or less behave and want to be the other gender.

I dont have problem with caling myself Crossdresser, I feel that describes more or less what I am. I am a male, and like being male, but I also like to put on female clothes, wear makeup and style my hair from time to time.

I guess I am actually wrong... but just how I feel about this.

My H feels the same as he never thinks he's a woman internally. He just likes the visual side of crossdressing...so is he transgendered?

I'd say literally, yes. He's crossing that gender line, even just in the physical sense. But that's where labels really are silly as there really is a HUGE internal difference between my H, who's playing dress up for fun, and someone correcting an incongruence that is their external/internal identity. The latter should really be insulted that my H is under the same label! It's a bit like someone who spent 8 years at medical school to gain their doctorate being compared to someone who found one in a cereal box. There is no comparison!

But, in the literal sense, my H's kinky little fun sits under the same umbrella as someone born in the wrong body. If anyone here thinks that makes sense, I'd love to know how! Otherwise, these labels are silly and, in my opinion, possibly harmful for those whom crossdressing is a life and death decision and not just a bit of fun.

[susannma]

Hi Tinkerbell-GG, nice to hear I am not the only one.

Its actually in the few situations where I have tried to explain that I crossdress to girls, that I realy found the term transgender problematic. Its hard enough to explain why I dress (I dont know why I dress.), but if I use the word transgender, I have to also explain what I are not.

[Anna H]

I tend to use TG for myself. I take the words at their literal meaning.

I've always had the GID/GD problem. I prefer to at least "appear" more
female than male. As normally as is possible.

So I guess that's crossing genders...(?)

I use CD for here and other sites. TG just causes more confusion.
There doesn't seem to be a label for someone who CD's always. I'm not
a CD in the same way that the majority are here (happily able to switch
between M/F)...and I'm not a TS.

FT/CD doesn't apply because I don't think of myself as cross-dressed.
Even though technically I may be, in the opinion of many. I don't feel
that way myself.

TG/crossed gender...seems to be about the most appropriate way for
me to view my own self.

If I never got taken as male ever again, it'd be fine with me. Great
actually! lol!

:)

[Ineke Vashon]

Every month or so I get a confusing headache and have to look up the many terms TG-FT-CD-MTF-WTF-LOL to find the little cubbyhole I'm supposed to fit in. I think I'll decant a nice Malbec for now and slip into something comfortable.

Ineke :drink:

[DebbieL]

I have assumed the one was synonymous with the other, but maybe in my ignorance I am wrong.
Transgender has become a term that is inclusive of a wide range of behaviours and desires ranging from fetish dressers who literally stay in the closet - often not even telling their spouses or families to transsexuals who transition to living full time in their chosen gender. Generally, the term applies to those who wish to experience some aspect of the opposite gender on a part time to full time basis. Tom-boys and sissies may not cross-dress at all and only seek to socialize as their chosen gender.


Two days ago I let one of my very old and dear friends in on my secret.
This says a lot. You still consider it a secret that you only tell a few few friends. A bit hard to get information when you only have a very few people who know. Thank goodness for sites like this one.


We had lost touch for many years and I have always regretted not keeping better contact with him.
We both come from a very similar background as we both grew up in the same church, schools and our families were always pretty close.
He is homosexual, and was in the closet for a very long time, so I'm sure he understands better than most.

He understands living the dual life, he understands the struggle of being yourself in an environment that doesn't handle honesty well. He may even understand the persecution. At the same time, there are many things that can be very different. It's hard to be gay without telling anyone - especially if you want a lover. It's relatively easy to find a community of gay people, because there is that desire to find love, romance, and friendship.

For many transgenders, the secrecy can be extreme. Often, they will be very private and solitary in their activities. Many cross-dressers not only don't leave the house, but have secret hiding places for their clothes, and only get dressed when they know there is no possibility of being seen by anyone, even members of their own family. Many times, even though the family may suspect and may be accepting, they don't want to upset them or drive them away by asking them about it, and the transgender themselves may be so afraid of rejection and persecution that they would rather be dead than out. Some even commite suicide when they are outed.

A transgender person also has the experience of seeing his body turn into something he doesn't want. A transsexual often finds puberty so upsetting that they literally can't look in the mirror without wanting to be sick to their stomach. MtF transgenders are often even more secretive. Some even try to pretend to be more masculine in order to survive, even though they had doing it. Often, when they are outed, they are terrified of what others will think - of how they will be picked on, abused, humiliated, or even violently attacked.

Often, it takes a trained therapist to distinguish where on the transgender scale someone really is. There are type 6 transsexuals who will attempt to convince the few people they have told that they are just fetish dressers or just closet dressers. Often, they lead such conflicted lives that everything they do is geared to make sure they "pass" as their birth gender - and even then they don't. I was amazed when I went to my 40th high school reunion and people saw me as Debbie and recognized me and were completely expecting it. Many of the women told me "We always considered you one of the girls".

Many transgender males across the spectrum have experienced bullying by 2 or more boys concurrently, often by 10 or more at a time, and often 2 or more times a day. The experiences in elementary school and junior high are so traumatic and stressful they literally have to deal with post traumatic stress disorder. For them, "passing" as boys or men is something they consider to be a matter of survival.


One thing he has said puzzles me though. It seems he does not include a closet crossdresser into the umbrella of transgender.
As a gay man, your friend has exposure to a number of different cross-dressers who are not transgender.
Drag Queens, Female Impersonators, and similar entertainers often dress up to please an audience.
Even entertainers who dress up can be very closeted about being transgender.
So long as they claim that they are "all man" who "can look really pretty for a few hours for laughs and tips" they are accepted.
To quote "To Wong Fu"
A transvestite is a MAN who like to dress up in women's clothes
A transsexual is a man who wants to be a woman.
If you are a gay man who has way too much fashion sense for one gender - you're a drag queen.

There are often issues between drag queens and transsexuals. Often a young transexual will come out to a drag queen hoping to find a kindred spirit only to be rejected.
Some drag queens can be transphobic - the thought of a man wanting to be a girl is almost as disgusting as having sex with a girl. Many are quite proud of how hard it is to tuck their "monster".


Not sure why, but will be asking the question to him when I find the opportunity.
I would be interested to hear what he has to say. There often seems to be a "pecking order" within the transgender community and drag community, and they are almost opposites.
Part of the issue may be that drag queens don't want to be considered or treated as "weak little sissies" while transgenders want to experience their softer, gentler, feminine side in whatever ways they can.


My questions to the group are: At what point do you consider an individual a transgender person?
I knew I wanted to be a girl when I was 3 years old. I preferred to play with girls, I had my own dolls, I preferred the games girls played, and I liked the lack of violence.
When I was 6, they told me I couldn't play with girls anymore, I had to play with the boys - that first day was one of the worst in my life - I got stoned - the boys threw rocks at me on day one as a boy.
When I found out "Sissy" was to "Sister" what "Buddy" was to "Brother", the word itself I realized was appropriate. I wanted to be more like a sister, a girl.
When I found out being called "Sissy" made you a target - someone to be beaten up by 10-15 boys all at the same time, often for almost an hour, I realized that being myself was dangerous.
To survive, I went into "stealth mode". Even though I knew I wanted to be a girl - and never stopped looking for ways to make that happen, I could't tell ANYONE. Not my parents, not my brother, not my best friends.
When puberty started I was freaking out big time.

When, at 14, I found out I had a bass voice and had to sing in the choir, I was suicidal and self destructive. I regularly drank myself into black-outs, often combining booze, pot, over the counter, and perscription drugs to literally become a different person. From what my friends told me I could either come out as a "boy ****" or "an emasculating bitch". I was often a danger to myself. Because of the drugs I was misdiagnosed as epileptic. How I survived until my 17th birthday I still don't know.

In high school, I was feminine, sporting long curly hair, and was approached by gay guys at school. I started introducing them to each other and the assumption was that I was gay. At least this way I was protected from further bullying because one of my fix-ups was a full-back on the football team.

The 1970s was an interesting period. Disco, Saturday Night Fever, and glam rock had made it OK to be an androgynous man.

When I finally did start dating, it didn't take long to figure out that Rex was a lesbian. I loved doing wonderful things to them, but when they tried to reach for my crotch, I got sick or nauseous. I didn't want to be a man and didn't want Rex to start thinking with that head.

When I met my first wife, I waited until 3 weeks after we moved into an apartment together to let her know about dressing. I convinced her that I just liked it in the bedroom, that I was a fetish dresser. She even indulged me for a while, but even before we were married, she was already becoming concerned about my "effeminate" ways. We tried for a year to have a baby and I finally had a fertility test. My wife told me she got the results and everything was OK. I didn't find out until years later that I might have been shooting blanks - and she knew it. 6 months later, while I was in Rochester NY, she went home for her friend's wedding, got very drunk and danced at her bachelorette party, and when she came home, made sure we made love - once. 3 weeks later she was pregnant - according to the EPT. My son came 3 weeks early at 9 lbs. 3 years later, she went to a club with her best friend to watch male strippers. She came home at 4 AM smelling like a peep show booth. The following night she said "Tonight or next year". The one night stand resulted in a wonderful daughter. I probably wasn't the sperm donor, but I was so happy to be a parent, and I loved taking care of the babies and the children. I raised them until my son was 10 years old.

Our platonic marriage was becoming uncomfortable. After 18 months with no sex, I insisted we go to couples counseling. My wife didn't hesitate to tell the therapist about my dressing, and how much it disgusted her. She also stated quite plainly "She's OK, even fun, but he's asexual and I'm not a lesbian. After several joint sessions, he asked to see each of us separately. I realize today that he was actually interviewing me to see how transgendered I was. When we had our next joint session, he said "I have good news and bad news" The good news is that you have the textbook example of a healthy marriage. You communicate, you love each other, you are sensitive to each other's needs, and if you wanted, you could be very happy growing very old together. The bad news is that Rex isn't just a cross-dresser, he's a type 6 transsexual, who has miraculously lived far longer than most of those I have treated who have not transitioned. The problem is that Leslie is not a lesbian and has no desire at all for a woman, and will never be attracted to Rex in feminine form of any kind.


Do you consider your self transgender now? I am interested in all points of view on this.

The therapist was right. I was a type 6 transsexual. I started to transition in 1989 but had to abort the transition in 1996 when I was given the ultimatum of quit or NEVER contact the children again. In 1992, she showed me a letter from a school social worker stating that my visits were detrimental to the kids and that I should have my visitation revoked or at least limited to supervised visitation. She then proudly told me about her new husband's sister, a religeous fanatic, had contacted the social worker and gave here the names of 3 judges who were also religeous fanatics. Since Leslie worked in the court-house, she had access and could easily get the no visitation order signed just by telling him about Debbie.

By 1998 I had gained over 150 lbs. By 9/11 2001 I weighed over 330 lbs. I had a heart attack and signed a DNR order before going in for the angiogram. In 2007 I had a stroke. Taking out my left side for 3 months. My new wife told me that I would have to work double hard if I wanted to look good in a skirt again. Within 6 months I could walk, talk, eat, read, write, and needed no assistance. 18 months later, only a trained neurologist would know I had a stroke and even then, mostly by watching me walk down steps. Even a clinical exam showed only traces of the damage. I had relearned how to do everything. Because I wanted to look good in a skirt again.

I created a second life avitar that was female, I established female e-mail accounts, and a female face-book account. Of course, Rex and Debbie were friends, and I didn't realize that Dad had friended BOTH Rex and Debbie. When he was about to die in 2010, his wife asked me to fly out and see him. When I got there, the first conversation he had was "If I can't give you anything else, I want to give you this - Be yourself, and if that means being DEBBIE - then SO BE IT!! He squeezed my hand and reached out for a hug. For the rest of the week, Debbie was by his side non-stop. He was delighted. At one point, when he was delerious, he even thought I was my mother, come to take him home. When I told him it was his daughter he said "Debbie?", and smiled.

I started transition about a month later. Seeing a gender therapist, gradually switching to spending my week-ends and evenings as Debbie. I started hormones and made plans to transition at work. In this site I learned that I could "fly pretty", and by August of 2013 I was working as "Rexy" - until I could get a legal name change, which was finalized in May of 2014. According to my social securiity card and driver's license I'm legally female. My 38C breasts will confirm that.

The transsexual forum on this site as well as the cross-dresser forums helped me a lot. I'm not sure I could have made it as smoothely if I had not been able to take the advice of people on these forums. They helped me find resources, doctors, legal information, and just provided support and inspiration. I am grateful.

[Amanda1128]

That's an inspiring story. Glad you hung in there.

[devida]

Thanks, Debbie, for your brave and inspiring story.

[flatlander_48]

It has been my experience that the average gay or lesbian has no better understanding of the transgender umbrella (and its nuances) than the average straight person. By which I mean he or she has not much understanding and not much empathy either. It is as foreign as being gay is to a straight person.

I personally subscribe to the broad umbrella definition, but if you hang around here long enough, and read prior threads on the topic, you will find that we (crossdressers) can't even agree on it.

Yes, I think the reason is that it is still largely a binary construct, only with a different alignment.


(PS Cheryl...it was the Five Man Electric Band...Tesla stole it )

Covered as I believe Les Emmerson still owns the rights...

-----------------------

Lots of side discussions about the concept of labels. Without labels, the idea of language would be severely crippled. In other words, how would be know the difference between a brick, a girdle, a sparrow or a gay man? We wouldn't; at least not in any succinct terms.

However, more accurately, the issue is one of misapplication of labels; usually with some sort of negative purpose. For example, technically the terms Gay Man and Faggot are roughly equivalent and descriptive. However, society uses the latter when the point is to demean or discount. The concept is good; the misuse is what is bad.

Anyway, I personally think the definitions below are pretty straightforward and the significant point is that we all have thoughts (which may or may not lead to action) that cross the usually accepted gender boundaries. And note that there is no mention of the degree or the frequency of crossing those boundaries.

Some definitions from:

World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH)
The Standards of Care
7th Version - Pages 221-222
(quoted at the top of this forum)

Gender dysphoria: Distress that is caused by a discrepancy between a person’s gender identity and that person’s sex assigned at birth (and the associated gender role and/or primary and secondary sex characteristics) (Fisk, 1974; Knudson, De Cuypere, & Bockting, 2010b).

Genderqueer: Identity label that may be used by individuals whose gender identity and/or role does not conform to a binary understanding of gender as limited to the categories of man or woman, male or female (Bockting, 2008).

Cross-dressing (transvestism): Wearing clothing and adopting a gender role presentation that, in a given culture, is more typical of the other sex.

Transgender: Adjective to describe a diverse group of individuals who cross or transcend culturally defined categories of gender. The gender identity of transgender people differs to varying degrees from the sex they were assigned at birth (Bockting, 1999).

Transsexual: Adjective (often applied by the medical profession) to describe individuals who seek to change or who have changed their primary and/or secondary sex characteristics through femininizing or masculinizing medical interventions (hormones and/or surgery), typically accompanied by a permanent change in gender role.

[TG-Taru]

Yup, there's confusion and different definitions about the labels, and yes, they help give the general idea but aren't something to live or be limited by. When discussing, good to agree on definitions. CD and TV have lots of variance, TG is both umbrella term and mid-range of the spectrum before TS.

I guess if you're particular, you might want to draw the TG line between those who DO drossdressING without the tg feelings and those who ARE crossdressERS (not to mention the rest of the tg spectrum - though at some point you might argue it's no longer crossdressing when the inner gender mostly matches, and certainly not on the TS end - or that is is, as long as not clearly TS). Or if one lumps that whole end of the spectrum together with fetish or (life)style dressing, they might say CDs aren't TG. Lots of degrees and not just one fixed point per person necessarily. Could also argue some TS off the far end of the spectrum, who never felt the tiniest bit like their birth sex, aren't TG either (tS, yes, not tG). Or that TG = TS but are the less than 100%-ish (or 75-100% or something) TS, requiring proportionately less treatment and transitioning.

The way I see it, a person is transgender if they feel, however little in some way, more right or better as (or appearing or behaving as) the opposite of their birth sex. I think it gets more muddled and somewhat pointless to try ignore the physical sex (being, not having) aspect of it and only talk of gender, as if it was only about one's role and style in cultural context. If men and women dressed and acted the same (or however), I think there would still be TG, albeit under a smaller umbrella perhaps.

And yes, I consider myself transgendered, in the more specific sense. When I started dressing I adopted the labels of TV or CD, not giving it much thought. It was exciting, particularly changing, though not a fetish and I didn't think of myself as a man wearing women's clothes, if not really a woman either. And as it often goes, now it's hardly more exciting than it is for any woman wearing the usual. But it does make me feel more comfortable and relaxed, happier. Not that I bother actually fully dressing all that much. It wasn't really about the dressing, and I wasn't satisfied with just that. But I'm not that far off to the TS side either that I'd suffer terribly or had to go full time or all the way, or get rid of the sausage and eggs, the male features mostly are only a bother when presenting female. It's very rare and fleeting I feel good about being a guy, and I dislike being reminded of being one. I'd rather lose my male side than female. Full transition, for me, just isn't that needed or worth it as it can be done currently. Now, if they had gene therapy to make real functioning change, that would be appealing, but still probably out of reach or just too much trouble. Oh and probably wouldn't be so straightforward or work as well once already fully grown, without growing new spare parts or whole body transplant... Or nanobot reconstruction... Yeah, not in my lifetime.

[reb.femme]

Hi Susan,

As many will attest here, I am not a label gal but I also understand that labels help to explain things to others and find our place in our own minds. I agree with many here that CD is under the TG moniker and when I explain my chosen lifestyle to others I will start with "Do you know what transgendered means?" If their face gets that blank screensaver mode look :confused: then I will say "Do you know what a cross dresser is?" . It is normally at that point where clarity tends to occur (Yes a guy who likes to dress like a girl) and then I will bring them into the explanation of TG/CD vice TG/TS as it gives them a baseline to start from.

Hugs

Isha

In a nutshell for me, exactly as the lady said. :straightface:

Rebecca

[Emi_]

The only labels that matter are MAC, Louboutin, and Chanel. Everything else is just vanity.

[Lucy_Bella]

This always happens when you take nouns and use them to describe human behavior like "Cross Dressing"..

Cross (a noun) when used "properly"can describe a spiritual item or it can also describe when two things intersect each other ..It can also be used as a VERB with or without a object like to move past or extend " crossing" and cross can also be used as an ADJECTIVE crosser..

Dress (a noun) when used "properly" can describe clothing ,apparel or garb ..When used as an ADJECTIVE dresser ( not to be confused as an old English dresser used to store clothing)..
To be used as a VERB with or without object is to put clothing on..Dressed or Dressing ( dressed or dressing is not to be confused with sauce used on salads or prepping food).

Hope that clears things up..

[susannma]

Well I have always thought that I am a bit of a freak, but kind of found my identy with the term CD. But when reading ther definitions from WPATH well, than I guess back to freak. But actually I think its WPATH who is stealing a term, and put more into it than it is.

Setting Cross-dressing = Transvestism, is in my mind wrong.

In my mind it should be more like this:

Cross-dressing: Wearing clothing that are more typical of the other sex.

Transvestism: Wearing clothing and adopting a gender role presentation that, in a given culture, is more typical of the other sex.

[Brooke Smith]

Let's make this as simple as we can...

After many years and much confusion as to how to identify I have settled upon," Gender Non conforming,"and I dare you to disagree!